Meet the Makers #5 - How To Sell 3D Prints Without Copyright / IP Infringement -With K3DC

In this episode of "Meet the Makers," we sit down with Kevin from K3DC to discuss the evolution of 3D printing technology and how it has changed drastically over the past 5 years Kevin also provides valuable advice for anyone interested in getting into 3D modeling, sharing tips on how to get started and the key skills needed to be successful in this field. He is proficient in fusion 360 and is beginning to work in nomad sculpt and can share a wide range of advice for beginners.  

Finally, Kevin discusses the challenges of navigating intellectual property and copyright infringement as a 3D printer. He explains what is considered fair use and what can be used as fan art, and provides guidance on how to avoid legal issues when creating 3D printed objects and how to prevent items i your etsy shop from being removed. This is a must-watch episode for anyone interested in 3D printing and selling prints or models. 
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Where to find Kevin! 
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@k3dc_?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Kevins3DCreations
Patreon" https://www.patreon.com/K3DC?fan_landing=true
Cults 3d: https://cults3d.com/en/users/K3DC/creations
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Come be a guest on meet the makers: https://forms.gle/wTqzxqGpsu9hZ39F6
Follow misfit printing on TIktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@misfit_printing
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Legal Disclaimer
This information is provided for general informational purposes only and is not intended as legal advice. No attorney-client relationship is formed by any use of this information. The information provided is not a substitute for obtaining legal advice from a qualified attorney.

Chapters
Intro 0:00 
3D printers are cheap now - 3:09 
3d modeling in fusion 360 Vs Nomad Sculpt - 7:26 
Process for creating a 3D model - 17:51 
What success looks like as a professional artist -22:10 
AI for 3D modeling -26:52 
What's the Difference between Copyright and IP - 33:00
Why / how companies enforce their IPs - 41:00
How to protect your IP as a small bussiness - 45:00
3D modeling as a career vs. hobby - 46:42
Transformative art Vs. Derivative Art -51:10 
Why this content is important 56:09 
Can you sell Pokémon 3D prints -59:40 
Is Cosplay IP Infringement - 1:02:24 
Outro - 1:06:11

Transcript

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Meet the Makers podcast. If you are in the 3D printing space, and you may know him from his 3D models, you may also know him as being, a pretty prominent voice speaking to the topics of IP and copyright law in the 3D printing community and the maker's space. So, with that said, I am so excited to, have Kevin here with us today from K three D c.
Kevin, thank you so much for coming on. thank you for having me. Kate, I really appreciate this very much. yeah, of course. for people who maybe, aren't as familiar with you, can you just give us like a little bit of background and maybe how you got into 3D printing and how you got started with all of this?
Sure. so I, I have an artistic nature,going all the way back to when I was a little bitty kid, drawing and, Books and so on and so forth. So I've always loved art and, I got into 3D modeling, back in about [00:01:00] 2016. I bought an RC car and, okay.
A lot of people were like trying to accessorize these things and so this was back in the time where you really didn't have a lot of 3D printers and you really didn't have a lot of 3D modeling. TikTok wasn't around those kind of things. And so I was trying to figure out how to do these things, so I just used my.
My artistic background, and got into a program called SketchUp. And so I started modeling, accessory pieces basically for these RC cars. And,since I didn't have a 3D printer, it was interesting, think thinking about this now, it's funny, but not having a 3D printer, but being able to model things for 3D printing.
how did that work? but there was, there's a company called Shapeways, and they actually have these huge, massive 3D printers and you could actually send your models to them. Oh. And then, You could do prototypes and so on and so forth. And they would print those things and then they would ship 'em to you and then you could, play with them.
So that's what I ended [00:02:00] up doing is using them as the printing service. 

And then once I verified that the part was okay, then I would open up that part in my Shapeways store. And so then I would direct people to go to Shapeways and they could actually order the parts and they would print 'em, they would ship 'em, they would do pretty much 80% of the work and, deliver it and all that stuff. 
And then I would get like a percentage of that sale. So that's how I started into it. and then it went off a little bit. and then I got back into it in about, into 20 19, 20 20 when I told myself I really wanted to see if I could. do something with it, be more prominent. and that's when I started using Fusion 360.
And so for the past two and a half, three years, I've been, using that program and learning. And now I'm getting into Nomad Sculpt, which is okay. Yeah. Totally different than what I'm used to. But, it's really fun. Awesome. That's, such a different, start than like anyone else I've talked to has had [00:03:00] into 3D printing.
Now I've only myself been into 3D printing for about six months, and maybe you'll have a little more insight that you can, shine on this, if you wanna call it hobbyist level machines, I don't, I think it was pretty recently that those started to become, more.
Prevalent, is that kind of what you found at the time? Yeah,back when I started, you had Maker bot and you had Ultimaker. these printers were $3,000 machines at the time. I work in education, so there were specific, what we call like STEM classes now. we called them east classes back then.
they would have, used grants to buy these printers and they would have one or two of these maker bots. and then, so I was able to start learning on that kind of technology. and this is funny, like Jill telling the same way I started in the same time. Jill telling started in his 3D printing, back then.
And, but yeah, so yeah, very hard to get your hands on,a printer and you had that and then I had a. A [00:04:00] contact that was, lived in a few blocks down from me that actually had a printer. And so that was it's funny, back then it was like, oh, somebody's got a 3D printer, let me go look at it, and it was, he was printing an, abs and that was the only kind of filament you could get at the time, and you had to okay, get the little filter and push all the smells out of the room and all that stuff.
And it was, it was funny thinking about it now, but, but yeah, so yeah, it's 

definitely has changed. And I think, I didn't get my first printer probably until I think around 2020. okay. so yeah, two and a half pm. years I've been doing it and it was the typical straight ender three, 
yeah. So yeah, that's where I was at, and then just grew from there. That's cool. And now, if I understood correctly, , I know you said you're in education. did the school that you're at, they had maybe one of those, like early printers? Yeah, so I actually had to, work on it.
So I, since I work in IT and education,we ended up getting,one of the maker bots, they couldn't, there was a nozzle was clogged, right? and the class [00:05:00] that they do, the kids are supposed to be more of the people that actually fix it, and the teachers are facilitators, so they couldn't ever figure out how to get it fixed.
And I think at that time it was just, too expensive to actually replace it with another printer. And that's when the CRE started coming out and the ender three started coming out and we actually partnered with another company that was local to Arkansas that they were selling, basically CRE clones.
They were a FBOs and Okay. but so I was able to work with that company and buy. Like CR tens. but they were CR 10 clones, and buy them for the schools. And, so that kind of how we, we went from like that $3,000 printer over to a more economical printer for the schools. And that's when I really started understanding and learning how to fix printers, from work, the nozzles and all that stuff.
but and those things back then were still even 800, [00:06:00] $900 a piece. but yeah, so yeah, so my job affords me to be able to look at new technologies as a come out and steer the educational side of it to say, okay, this is probably a good printer for your students because it's easy, to do or don't.
mess with this printer because it's too expensive. and so I, I've been really lucky to be in that position where I can play around a little bit with it. That's super cool. Getting, that preview into things that are coming out ,I feel lucky to have club into printing at a time where it, it definitely is I'd say fairly accessible to almost anyone at this point, 
even if you can't afford like a new under at two to 300, I know I've purchased like secondhand machines, just as like backups at For like less than a hundred dollars, you can get something that, might not be the latest and greatest, but it, 

definitely can get the job done. 
So it's cool to see how that's changed over the years. yes. It's been very fast too. Like we, we say technology, this is only five years and we think about it like, oh, it's been a long time, but it's really only been about five or six years, the transition [00:07:00] from when I started to where we are today and how fast,everything's changing.
So it's really crazy. Yeah. cuz I reme, I think it was maybe like, three or four years ago when I had first heard about 3D printing and I think that's when I first started looking into it. And I remember back then looking into it and being, at the time I was pretty young. I was like, I definitely can't afford this.
and then, I, it re sparked my interest, look back into it, and I was so surprised, again, just like how, how affordable it is. Yeah. yeah, it's, it's interesting. so I think you typically, when you model, right now you said that you're mostly Infusion 360. Yes. Yes.
So that kind of started because, back, I guess two, three years ago, fusion 360 allowed education to have free licensing and you could,register for it. And, as long as you're verified, you have a school email and so on and so forth, you were able to use that in an educational setting.
what I was doing is, helping to. Figure out what programs are easy for [00:08:00] kids to use. and Fusion was one of those. and of course in education you try to find anything that's free. yeah. and this was before Tinkercad came along and so I was really trying to find a, an application at the, our middle school and high school kids could use.
And so I dived into that and I was like, Hey, it's free. I don't have to pay for it. let's figure this out. and just stuck with it. if you wanna think about it in that regard, because it's hard cuz as an artist, and once you get used to, like a certain application, stopping and spending the time learning another application is, we're lazy so we just want to do this one and do that it's, because, I know you said that now you're looking into Nomad Sculpt.
I don't have a lot of experience in, fusion 360, but, I also don't have a lot of experience in Nomad Cul, but that's where I would say I'm the most comfortable with. But,although, they're both 3D modeling and maybe if you don't model, you're like, how different could it be?

But it seems to my knowledge, fusion 360 is a little better for, maybe like functional more, like rigid prints, whereas Nomad, in [00:09:00] my experience, is a lot better for more organic, kinda like smooth shapes. So how has that transition been moving from, your background in Fusion to Nomad? 
so yeah, so you hit the nail on the head with that, right? So you have CAD style applications, shaper 3d, fusion 360, those kind of things. Tinker cad. and I think probably within the last year people more doing tablet. Modeling, right? Yeah. and so where I get stuck in Fusion 360 is that it is not really good at sculpting with organics.
now I do form you and I do a lot of organic style infusion 360. but you, there's just stuff that you just can't do and one of the big things infusion that you can't do is texturing. And so you see a lot of these people making these really cool models, with, like creatures, dragons and scales and fur and all that infusion.
You just can't really do that in there. So I want to try to bring some more [00:10:00] models that have that more organic feel to it, that can allow, That texturing this, cuz I, what I try to do is I try to create a snake infusion and, oh yeah. snakes have scales, right? So trying to pattern scales on a snake infusion is really difficult.
But, and nomad, it's, and it's a lot easier. So I just had to grip my teeth and I was like, okay, if I really want to get a, model something with texture, I'm going to have to learn something other than fusion. And I'm able to use,an iPad, and a, I use a Logitech pen or a crayon they call it, to do it just to learn,more the more organic style.
But yeah, it is different cuz you're going from a keyboard and mouse style, model to. Pinch in with your finger in a pencil. And it, and yeah. And it's so funny because I come from an artistic background with drawing. you would think that, drawing, with a pen and paper, I would be more natural, with nomad, but I, it, I don't know.
My brain just doesn't work [00:11:00] that way. but it is what it is. So I'm trying. Yeah. Now for somebody, let's say they're, maybe they're new like me and they're trying to get into modeling for the first time. if, I guess maybe if they have an idea of what they want to sculpt, they would lean into more one or the other.
But, where would you say I guess the best way to start modeling is and how to 

get into that and start learning? usually it's, by association, like who you hang out with, right? So if you've got friends that, like on TikTok or Instagram or whatever, and you. And they're doing blender for example, you're probably going to gravitate towards a blender because you trust their judgment. 
but the people that I've seen and I've talked to, to try to help answer that question is the first question is are you going to be on a computer? Are you gonna be on a tablet? because computers, you can, you have the keyboard and mouse and you can get a tablet, or a Wacom tablet or whatever, but what is your primary device going to be?
and [00:12:00] that will determine where you want to go from there because there is organic and CAD for both. so if people say,I'm more comfortable with a pen and a tablet, then that's when I say, okay, then you can look at something like Shaper 3d or you can look at Nomad Sculpt cuz Shaper 3D is more cad and then you have Nomad Sculpt.
Oh, okay. but. The biggest thing mostly people jump to is the free stuff. It's what can I do that's free or relatively cheap? And so once they answer those questions about tablet versus computer, then I'll say, okay, you can do Blender, or you can do Tinkercad or Fusion 360. It's free for hobbyists.
Start with those. blender seems to have the most,YouTube territorials, out there. but I tell people. To be careful with Blender because it's an all-encompassing application because it does more than just sculpting. It does animation. you can do, you get so many buttons. and it's a great program, just, but if you think about it, if all you're wanting to do is [00:13:00] sculpt, then blender may be overwhelming.
so I just kind, you gotta ask those questions. Do you want something that, do you just want a sculpt? Do you just want to create functional parts? but yeah, so you always hear that blender cuz it's free Tinker Cad because it's free, fusion 360 s cuz it's free. And those all orient on the PC side.
there's there and, but on the tablet side, there's not really a lot of free good programs. You're gonna usually have to pay it on the tablet side. But like I said, no bad sculpt is great. shaper 3d, I've heard some great things about it. I've played with some, and there's I think a couple of others out there.
But, but yeah. Yeah. Pretty much, yeah, those top four or five are usually the best ones. Yeah. That's, really good advice and I agree a lot with what you said 

about Blender. I know, that was one application that I tried at one point for me before I ended up getting a tablet, but, I remember watching some tutorials and I was so new at the time, I almost didn't even know what to look for. 
I didn't know like the terminology, anything. And I had found myself watching this really long tutorial about [00:14:00] not just modeling a scene, but like color grading it and adding shadows and highlights and like, all this stuff that I didn't need to know if we were printing a 3D model. And yeah, I was just so overwhelmed that I ended up never picking blender back up at the time.
yeah, I think that's a really good piece of advice. if you're getting into it, to,just scale back what you need to know and not feel like you need to. No, every single button or every single feature inside, one of those applications. Yeah. and once you get, if you get frustrated with something, you're not going to enjoy it.
And you're not going to, like what you said, you're gonna let it go and you're gonna be like, I'm done. it's very hard to go back to something that you've tried. yeah. So you make it simple for yourself, make it fun and enjoyable, and then you usually will do better with it. For sure. kinda like setting expectations for people and, it's gonna be different for everyone in every application that they try to use, but, I guess like for you to,start to feel like, I guess comfortable in, fusion 360, where like you didn't need to watch the tutorial to do, basic stuff.
How about I guess how long would you say for you it took to start to [00:15:00] feel comfortable in there? so I started with functional. prints. so making things, that, that would, fix something. So I started, like with at work, we had to come up with a way to mount an access point on rafters and our access points, have, a bracket that only allows it to connect to, a ceiling grid.
So I had to come up with a way to design a bracket that would go around a rafter, but it would actually allow me to slide it in because I had to get it around the rafter and then get it in thereafter and lock it down. so learning how to do extrusions, watching some videos, but I think with me, just.
Going in there and just clicking buttons is what I did mostly. Yeah. and, just trying to do it, and of course I'm sure I did it the hardest, longest way possible, initially, and that's what I think people need to understand is it may take you eight hours to do something really small, but you learned [00:16:00] a lot in that eight hours versus getting mad at yourself for not knowing how to do it in 

30 minutes. 
I think it's very crucial to use that eight hours and to understand that is a good thing that don't look at yourself and beat yourself up for that. but yeah. it took me probably, I would say about a year. okay, I'm doing it now. Again, this isn't. I don't do this full-time, so you also gotta remember that, yeah, I have a full-time job, family, wife, all that stuff.
And this is a lot of after hours work for me. So I think if somebody was wanting to do it and they had a lot of spare time on their hands, they could easily pick it up and get comfortable probably in a month,of most of the, the settings, right? Because Fusions 360 is kinda like blender.
it's got a lot of buttons as well. I only use about 20% of what's in that program. so yeah. But yeah, I think about a month for somebody that's really dedicated to it. Yeah, I like a lot what you said too about, not beating yourself up because something that might take somebody 30 minutes stuck you eight hours to do.
[00:17:00] I, I know for me, when I first started watching tutorials on Nomad Sculpt, there's a girl, Erica Kasab, I believe is her name. She goes by small Robot studios and I was following one of her tutorials and. the tutorial's 15 minutes long. she just bangs this thing out and it's so easy for her.
And it was taking me like, I had to stop and pause and stop and pause since hours are going by. I, again, I think not comparing yourself to her, but, then I did a couple more sessions and over those couple sessions I was like, oh, this is getting easier. It's getting easier. So yeah, for those people, I think it's good to hang in there and not give up on that first session, even if it does take you a really long time.
Yes, exactly. Be patient with yourself. Don't beat yourself up. you're not, it's not a race. And, but I think with society, we're so instant gratification. Yeah. Anyway, it's hard. It's hard cuz we think that we should know how to do this in two days or whatever. But yeah, don't beat yourself up.
Be patient with yourself. So now, as you , start to go in and design something for your process, where does that kind of start for you? do you start on pen and paper or [00:18:00] do you jump right into Fusion? How do you work on like, when you're doing a new design? I would say this is the way that you, I think you're supposed to do it and I don't do it this way, but, I think, like when writing an essay or writing some type of paper or writing a book, you to have 

an outline, I think it's a good idea to write down notes and jot down what your plans are to do, what you're trying to accomplish. 
and especially if it's organic or complicated modeling, it's good to draw out what your idea of it is. Because it gives you a two-dimensional view of what you're trying to do. but I throw all that out the window and I usually just, use my, I let the model depends on what model I'm doing.
but I kinda let the model build itself, if that makes sense. I'll go in and I'll start,tacky prints, is doing a contest with the hockey mask, right? And so he's wanting a lot of people to model and design a hockey mask. So with that one, I just went in, I, I brought the mask in and I was like, what do I want to [00:19:00] do?
and I just started just making shapes. And, then I probably about, 15, 20 minutes into it, I said,maybe something that kind of looks like the terminator. And then I started just playing with that, and then made an eyeball and then just went. And then, so I really let the, Let it guide me, if that makes any sense.
when it comes to just, freeform, I guess it's such when we make freeform and then you know about a, two hours later, boom. There you go. I've got this weird looking mechanical hockey mask thing going on. so that's really how I do things. Mostly it's just off the cuff. let it go, let it flow and see where it'll.
Where it lands. Yeah, that's,I don't think there's ever any like right or wrong way to do it, but I'm always really fascinated to see everybody's just process for how they like lay something down like that. And sometimes even the background, I love just watching videos of they'll just be those long videos of somebody designing something and Nomad Fusion or whatever.
And it's always really interesting to me to see how they get from start to finish [00:20:00] because that's, I think also as a beginner, like something that. It's a little difficult for me to, sometimes you're wrap my head around is even laying down the initial shapes of, how I'm gonna build this thing out.
So yeah, it's cool to hear about people's process. Yeah. And I think one of the things, so my skillset,as an artist, my skillset is replication. in art class, I always gives the analogy like when the art teacher puts a bowl of fruit on the table and she tells you, Hey, okay, I need you to draw the bowl of fruit.

So I was really good at being able to draw the bowl of fruit. but where I lack in skill is, original, creation. And so that's why with when I do this and I'll just let it flow is cause I'm having to do it all for my own brain and it takes me longer. But if I was to. See something and somebody said, Hey, can you replicate this in a 3D space? 
Then it's a totally different mindset. And,so I gotta remember that, is it free forming? is it just, it's gonna be more difficult for me just to do it freeform [00:21:00] than it is to like, Hey, I need you to, 3D model this thing right here. Yeah, I can do this, in a heartbeat.
So that, that's, as an artist, I don't like that sometimes because,I want to be, more creative and I kick myself sometimes for not feeling that I'm not as creative as I should be. I think it's honestly really difficult. I always considered myself, I always thought I was like a really creative person.
, in school I was good to art. that was just like my background. And, I, what I actually had noticed, and it was an interesting thing for me to see when I tried getting into modeling, is sometimes I would just sit down and I'd be like, I'm gonna make something cool, but I didn't have a plan.
And actually conceptualizing something like completely original that doesn't exist. And like you said, not just having like the bowl of fruit in front of you to create was. A really difficult thing for me to do. And I don't know, for you, maybe this is, something you can relate to, but I guess when I think about my day-to-day life, I don't have that many opportunities as an adult where you're just like completely, left to your [00:22:00] own, like creative juices I guess you could say.
I think it's something that like, as you get older, maybe you have less, opportunity to do stuff like that. Yeah, it is difficult. cuz you know, you, and sometimes you can get a little depressed at times when you go on social media and you see all these cool things, Yeah. Make it Myers or Flexi Factory and you see all these people that are like, man, they're successful and they're doing all these really cool things, man, why didn't I think of that? and then you're just like, ah. But, I think what I have to do is, you gotta remember, don't force the creativity.
Yeah. and a again, The gratification world. we fight with that a lot, but I think as an artist, if you just kinda let it come to you, you enjoy it more instead of forcing yourself. with Patreon, for example, sometimes I feel bad for modelers 

that are successful because there's an expectation set. 
once they become popular or famous or whatever, now there's an expectation in the, now they've gotta churn out This art [00:23:00] every month. Versus, an artist that just just whimsically creates something one day and then it's, this magical piece and it's now it's become a business and now you gotta, churn it out.
so yeah, it is difficult because,from a business sense, you've gotta, create product. but, I don't think,it's just one of those things that you have to, learn to do and work with. Yeah. and I guess going off that point, like I, if I'm not mistaken, I think you have both a Patreon and an Etsy, for you.
you also, have an standard standalone job. do you ever plan to do modeling or do printing full-time or for you, is it, something that you just like really enjoy as a hobby and like wanna keep it that way, but it's always nice to make some money on the side.
Where do you fall for that? I think if I had a magic wand, right? I think all artists, 3D modelers, would love to do it full-time, right? That's like their love. Hey, I can do something that I love to do and I can pay the bills with it. So I think if I could do that's, that would be amazing.
but I think. As I get [00:24:00] older and, reality sets in and, I've got, I don't want to say how old I am, too much, but I have, 11, 11 years until retirement, until I can retire from education. Okay? So once you get to the point where you're over that hump and you're like, you're, you're seeing retirement on the horizon.
And I have to think of it in an adulting way as okay, yeah, I need to really stay with what I'm doing for the next 11 years so I can retire and get my benefits and do that, and then maybe after retirement I can do this full-time. So some of these, I guess what I said, the adulting things, I gotta make sure my kid can, go to school and pay the bills and all that.
but right now for me, I think I'm blessed in the, where I'm at now that. I have a job that pays the bills. I'm comfortable. I'm not stressed with having to make this money in 3D modeling to pay the bills. like some people may be in, because success, is great, [00:25:00] but sometimes it is a burden.

but yeah, I think, I'm put in the position I am now for a reason. It's Hey, you've got a job. Everything's good, everything's going well. do this for, for fun. and,maybe, if it's in the cards, I, and I can do it full-time and make the money that I'm doing, working at my job. 
That'd be amazing. but I do, I think the most enjoyment I get right now is, not necessarily modeling, but helping other people. Yeah. Model. I've always been a teacher by nature. I used to teach martial arts for a long time. Oh, okay. And, that I really enjoy teaching other people how to model and showcasing other people's stuff.
so if I have the chance to be able to show somebody something, how to do something infusion or how to do something, in, in some kind of 3D modeling since I'll try to do that and, as it sits right now, yeah. that's where my joy comes in. I patreon's not, I don't worry about it or Etsy or Colt 3D or [00:26:00] anything like that.
it helps pay fulfillment. and I'm good with that. it's, it's nice to have the best of both worlds and for me, I just like, I don't monetize, I don't sell anything 3D printing related, but, a big thing that you said too, like just a community portion of it, the 3D printing community has just been the most amazing community. It's really, great people, genuinely, just like everybody seems to wanna help each other, bring other people up. 
yes. I agree. the, there's a, and I think mostly because most people are coming into it new, and yeah, there's a lot of new people. And usually when you have a lot of new people doing new things, you have more of that, collaboration. It's hey, I figured this out today. Here, let me show you how to do this.
And,in a manufacturing sense, 3D printing is still very new. And yeah. I totally agree. I think there's a lot of positivity out there, with, people trying to help each other. For sure. now coming back to 3D modeling, something I've starting to hear rumbles about is, like the potential of, AI [00:27:00] generated 3D models.
Have you delved into that at all, or have you tried anything in that realm yet? I haven't. so I haven't tried it, but I am keeping a. Up with the, I guess the news of it. especially chat, G p T and I have to do it because of, mainly because of my job. okay. So how it started chat, G p T came out, it hit, the world, just with this huge, storm, and what was happening in the educational industry is like cheating, right?

Or, chat G B T doing things like writing your own essays for you and stuff like that. yeah, so it got on our radar pretty quickly. And I had to figure it out. It's what is this? What is this? Open ai? What is this? And going in there and I had to create an account and it's what is this? 
What is this actually gonna be able to do? what are our teachers going to and not like about it? And so I dived into it just from work, the side of it. And then that's when I started looking at AI art, and mid [00:28:00] journey. and then, there's a lawsuit now formed with Mid Journey.
And so I've been trying to keep up with all that. and I think from a personal perspective,it's going to happen. but I don't know if it's, if it should happen. it's the whole Malcolm with, Jurassic Park where he said, scientists kept wondering if they could, they should have asked if they should, kind of thing because, it's just.
It's gonna create a lot of questions and it's going to, just very be very interesting, if it's gonna work. But I did watch a video, like specifically 3D modeling, right? I think it's going to come to a point, where you're gonna just ask some, a computer, right? Hey, 3D model me a plant pot that's three inches by four inches by two inches, and I want it to be, half inch thick and it's gonna be able to design it for you.
And, and then you're just gonna have, and then you're just say, okay, now print it and it's gonna be one of these things where the printer is as synonymous as a [00:29:00] microwave. and I think, is that gonna be good for artists? Probably not. but I think it's gonna come cuz I think that's what most people want to do.
they want to just, they want it and they want it now, and they want it, And, but yeah. But yeah, so yeah, I think it's gonna eventually happen,that you're just gonna talk into something like Star Trek and just say, I want this and it's gonna make it, and it's gonna be, it's gonna be amazing and terrifying at the same time.
So yeah. It's,I've been so interested in AI like over the last couple months and,you started to touch on it, but one of the things that I thought was a really interesting argument is like, the impact for artists and, what I was hearing people, discuss is everybody thought that AI was gonna come out and it was gonna, maybe replace I don't know how I wanna say it.
not, not creative positions like, more, monotonous type positions. And it like 

right out of the gates, my journey with generating images, Chan, g p t with, being able to generate copywriting [00:30:00] and all kinds of stuff. it really, took a swing at the creative realm, before anything else. 
And I think that was really interesting to see. And, it's definitely, a, it's a double edged sword because it's cool that there's gonna be this technology accessible to, anyone who can generate this stuff. But, as somebody who knows a lot of artists and designers and things like that, it's,it's a weird water to navigate, 
exactly. I think what you said, what it does that it gives people that don't have any artistic ability to be able to have artistic ability. So the, instead of going to a person like a digital artist and saying, Hey, make me this work, boom, this digital work, I don't have to go to that digital artist anymore.
I can just go to the program and I can ask the program to do it. And the program does it. So it gives everybody the capability that cannot draw or cannot do digital art, the capability to make digital art for them. I think, that's great, in a sense, but like what you said, it's a [00:31:00] double-edged sword that the digital artists are gonna have to figure out a way that it will help them.
and I've seen a lot of. arguments back and forth,and it's usually the arguments, like the people that don't know how to draw and they use AI art are saying, telling the digital artist, you need to conform. And then the digital artist is but I think it, long term is it'll all figure itself out.
I think we'll all,figure out what's going on. But also it, it does a lot of things too that we figured out, in programming, that we, I use, I've tried chat g p t to use PowerShell scripting, and since I don't know how to, I do a little bit of PowerShell scripting, but I could ask chat G P T and it actually will write the script for me.
And I was like, Oh, that's crazy. And then I started thinking, okay, how can it be used to help me in my job? And, so yeah. Oh, there's, our imagination is our only limitation. So [00:32:00] there you go with that. Yeah. It's, really gonna get crazy, I think, in the next couple of years. And,I don't know if safe's the right word, but I don't think anybody's safe.
If, you're sitting out there and thinking, oh, it's not gonna affect me. It's my, what I do isn't gonna be affected. I really strongly think everyone's gonna feel it over the next, next five to 10 years. So it'll be an interesting, Thing to see develop. Yeah. That, yeah. It's, it could, we could probably have a two hour 

conversation about that. 
it's crazy. I think the only jobs that it won't affect is the physical labor job trace skills. Yeah. plumbing and electrical and stuff like that. But any, anybody that does something on a computer, yeah. it could potentially, affect them. yeah. I, I don't know if you've ever seen this meme, but there is one floating around, a while back there was unfortunate situations like coal miners, farmers getting laid off from their job.
And people were like, you could just learn how to code. And now it's like the opposite. It's people who know how to code, it's you could just learn how to coal mine and farm, because that's all that's gonna be [00:33:00] left in the end. so it's like the circle of life, right? Everything goes back.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Uhhuh. so I wanna switch paths a little bit and, like I said in the beginning, I know you talk a lot about, IP copyright and how that affects, people who are designers, people who sell prints, for people who I guess maybe just aren't as savvy on those topics, would you be able to just jump us off and, maybe delve a little bit into the difference of what, like the difference between copyright and IP to start out with?
Yeah,so we always have to do this disclaimer, right? we are not lawyers Yeah. And we cannot give legal advice. with, Copyright and so it's new to 3D printing because 3D printing is so new, but this affects anybody in the manufacturing industry. And so like t-shirt design and,Tumblrs, people making Tumblrs and all that stuff.
I relate it to t-shirts cuz they've been around for a long time. So if I owned a t-shirt shop and I looked at, cuz you got two [00:34:00] things. You've got what, usually you have a, the copyright and then you have trademark. and those are the two things that you're going to be looking at from that a business perspective in creating something.
So a trademark is like a logo, so McDonald's logo, Microsoft logo, stuff like that. Anything that has a t in the little circle. you can't take a t-shirt and put anybody's logo. On that t-shirt and sell it without their permission. So that's considered trademark infringement. So you have that. and then you have the copyright.
Copyright is basically ideals. so marvels characters, DC characters, spider-Man. it's a work of art. and then what IP means is basically intellectual property, 

meaning, Marvel owns Spider-Man. That means they own intellectual property of Spider-Man since they created, they own the property of Spider-Man. 
And so there are trademarks of Spider-Man, like the Spider-Man logo is a, can be [00:35:00] considered a trademark logo of Marvel. And then the Spider-Man character is a copyrighted, piece of Marvel. and so what we have to be careful with is,and this has been around like several a long time, if I had a t-shirt,I've got the Ronan Star Wars right here.
if you actually look, I don't know if I can show it, but there is actually a TM right there on that Star Wars. So that means that Star Wars is a trademarked item. and, they have permission. This is a Funko pop shirt, and, they have permission to use this trademark logo. and they've done all the licensing, but, but yes, so it's very difficult to, I think it's a sad story if you wanna say it like this.
Yeah. Because, I relate it to I'm the kind of guy that, you know, when somebody went to your, when you're a little kid and somebody told you the tooth fairy wasn't real And you believed in the tooth fairy, and it was amazing. And it was magical, and somebody said, no, that's actually your parents.[00:36:00] 
And you were like, devastated to distraught and all that. And then you were mad. And then you go through the, the five phases of grief or whatever, and then you finally accept it, right? And you finally say, oh, okay, yeah, that's tooth fair. it's, that's how I do it with copyright.
I'm like, Hey, you're not really supposed to do this. and then sometimes they'll get mad, they'll say, it's van Art, or it's this, or it's that, or it's this and that. And I was like, no, I really, it's not, and you're not supposed to do it. And then eventually, hopefully acceptance and, comes to that.
But, yeah, it's, it's not a, it's not a good story because people we're told initially, and maybe you, I would love to. Ask you this question and see if this answer is true or not. But when you got into 3D printing, were you given the notion that you could do anything, you could print anything?
Like the idea of Hey, I can get a 3D printer, I bought a 3D printer, now I can go and get anything on the internet and I can download it. I can you, you had a lot of freedoms. is that kind of how you felt? You sold that good? So I can get a 3D printer and I can do anything with it?

Yeah,[00:37:00] I got into it in an interesting way and I think, my kind of understanding of like copyright and even from not only a big, organization like, Marvel or, like a franchise, like Star Wars, something like that. But even just like from small creators, I. 
Had purchased mine with the intention going into it that I was going to, sell plant pots on Etsy cause at a small plant shop at the time. And, before I had ever even bought my 3D printer, something I was like looking heavily into was like, the differences between like creative commons attribution.
is it fair use? if I purchase it, on Colts, but it isn't a commercial license, can I sell it? So I already had the wheels turning of, just because it exists on thing averse or Colts like, maybe doesn't necessarily mean that like I'm gonna be able to sell it or, things like that.
So I think I had a little bit of a different start to it as things, but I can totally see how if you don't have a background in this stuff, you could get a 3D printer. And I don't think most people are acting,bad actors out of, [00:38:00] trying to be malicious. I think most people truly, it's just like they don't know.
Yeah. Yeah. and it, I think it's our own fault. I think if you look at, if you look at advertising, like if you look at, CG Traders advertising or GA Bodies advertising or whatever, 3D content creators out there, all most of the time is infringement, infringing items because that's what sells, right?
People, people like this little thing, this little, I did a little thing right there to hold my dragon eggs, right? this is cool, but, somebody would rather see this. Yeah. Yeah. they, and this is what sells, and that's what we promote in our ads. And, and so if I was coming into the 3D printing space, brand new, and seeing all these people like printing, all this Spider-Man stuff and Ironman stuff, and I would think it was all legit.
I would think that, hey, everybody else is doing it. You've got this person that's [00:39:00] got a million followers on TikTok, and they're making, Ironman, cosplay, and hey, everything's legit. And, I can totally understand why people don't, don't understand it, and people don't.
Don't want to talk about it too. In a sense it's still almost a taboo subject. Yeah. Because, nobody wants to be told that they can't do something. but I think from your persp your perspective, I think you were business minded, right? You were like focused in, in a business sense, and you're like, okay, I've gotta make 

sure I'm doing everything legal and all that. 
And I think a lot of people, when they start 3D printing, it starts in a phase, right? they buy a 3D printer and then they buy, they print the free stuff on thing Averse. Yeah. And then the first thing that happens is somebody goes, Hey, can, hey, can you print that for me? I'll pay you 10 bucks, right?
and it's oh, sure. and then they go and then they print that, and then it turns into three or four people asking them to print something. And then they go, wait a minute. I can make money doing this. And then they, they get an Etsy shop and then they get another printer, and then they're, now, they're, now they're [00:40:00] mass producing and they don't ever stop to ask that question, Ooh, was I even supposed to do this?
because that's how it's presented to them. So I totally understand why most people think the way they do. Yeah, for sure. I, It's something that you mentioned earlier on too, is I unfortunately feel like it's not, it's, it is taboo. nobody really talks about it. And you're one of the very few people that I know of in the space you talk about and you almost get painted, I feel like sometimes as the bad guy of oh, okay, Kevin's coming and being the black cloud and bursting everyone's bubble that we can't print this stuff.
But, again, I think it really is something that like. Important for people to hear, especially when they're newer and they don't know that, the, these laws exist. And, something I've heard you talking more about recently, and I've seen firsthand people starting to get things shut down their Etsy shops.
It seems like this year in particular, a lot of the franchisees are really like starting to crack down on, the infringement on their, intellectual property. Is that, would you [00:41:00] agree that this seems like it's more than before, getting cracked down on? I think, I think 20, I'll say this in my videos a lot.
I'll say 2023 is the year of the IP band hammer. but I think you also gotta be careful, like if you're on TikTok and, the way the algorithm works, if you look up intellectual property and copyright videos, you're gonna get more intellectual property and copyright videos. Yeah.
So it's going to be perceived as it's all this big grand and all over the place. so I try to be careful when I do that, but yes. and what happens. and you'll see this, like Disney or the big companies if they're about to release a movie or something. And I'm surprised, like with Le Nintendo in the Mario world, the 

Mario Brothers movie, you'll see that IP companies or companies that have IP will start going after interesting, infringing items in preparation. 
For a release if especially they're wanting to sell merch, okay. they're trying to [00:42:00] clearing, they're clearing the way. I was like, okay, let's get all of these bad actors or these bad IP Yeah. Stuff out of the way cuz we're about to introduce our stuff. so you'll see that in some regards, but also, IP law, states that you have to actually constantly be protecting your stuff.
So companies have to constantly protect their IP in order to be able to win. lawsuits in court. okay. For example,if I'm, company X and I make these little things right, and I'm never going around and telling people to quit selling my stuff, if I found it and sending them a DMCA or whatever, if I never do that, I never tell anybody to stop and then.
Three years go by and then all of a sudden I'm like, okay, now it's gotten really big. and whatever the courts can look at it and say, okay, listen, you weren't worried about protecting your IP for the last three years.[00:43:00] so why are you all of a sudden worried about it now? And so that's why some companies will do like rolling, takedowns Interesting.
Warner Brother hit me up and this is how my journey started. hit me up with A D M C A on two of my listings on Etsy last year. And it was random. I had eight listings of Warner Brother stuff and it only hit me with two. but, I knew two other people that got hit that same day. So WB just did just a rolling Etsy takedown okay.
That Friday. And, it's just so that they can. Legally say, I've been trying to protect my ip, for any type of court cases. so that's something a lot of people don't realize as well, that, cuz they say, why is my shop not getting hit in your shops getting hit and all that. Yeah. It, they're just doing random hits just to make sure that they're in compliance with the copyright laws.
Interesting. Yeah, I, I work, in the telecom space and, a little bit different, but, we hear a very similar thing. [00:44:00] There's, regulations that are put up on businesses sometimes for the content that they put out and that's a very common thing that we'll hear, why can this person do it?
But we can't, why are certain people getting policed? And, I can definitely relate to that,it, it feels like you're personally getting targeted, but for these bigger companies,sometimes it's getting picked up by the algorithms. 

Sometimes it's getting,just like going through the cycle, but. 
yeah, I have heard people on TikTok particularly, go on there and feel like it, I'm personally getting targeted, why is this happening? yeah, normally most of the time, if it's from like Warner Brothers or DC Marvel,it's usually just random.
And what the hard thing is, technology is happening faster than what copyright laws are able to keep up with. it's almost comical now that we even have copyright laws that are enforceable because it's so easy, to replicate things, like I said, replicate your scanners. You can 3D scan things now in 3D print and, it's so hard to enforce,[00:45:00] take downs and, I, I don't know.
it's a losing battle. I hate to say it that way, but it is in a sense, a losing battle because, the small businesses don't have enough, manpower to protect their own ip, because they have to. the copyright law basically says that you have to police your own stuff.
So that means you have to go around and fill out your own DMC letters. You have to do all of that stuff,and you have to do it for each individual. You can't just, you can't just send a letter to Etsy and say, take down all my stuff. You have to go to every single listing and submit a dmca a and for, that's just impossible.
yeah. And, so it is, the cards are stacked against, the small business owners, from protecting their own ip. So most of the times they just like, they have to let it go. And then, With the, another thing a lot of people don't realize is you cannot sue, you cannot file a suit, unless you are registered, unless that copyright is registered.
Because [00:46:00] initially,I designed this, it's got initial copyright protection. And so if somebody took these and they started selling these on Etsy or whatever, I can send a DMCA to them, and if they don't comply, I have nothing, I can't do anything else because I haven't registered this to the copyright office.
So you have to be registered, with the copyright office to be able to file a suit. And I'm just like, that really doesn't help me, does it, because I'm not, as a 3D modeler. Yeah, you're not gonna, you're not going to. Copyright or you're not gonna register every single Everything. Yeah, every everything.
And so it's just one of those, like I said, finding out the tooth fairy isn't real and then everybody just gets a sad face and then they go, Kevin, please don't come 

around. Please don't talk anymore. Yeah. I,I actually, I was going through some of your videos, preparing for our talk today, and I had seen a video that you were discussing that how you have to have, The copy rate filed for, like each of your designs if you wanna go and defend it. 
And yeah, for small businesses, just like from a [00:47:00] logistical, from a cost standpoint, it's not feasible and it's really, it's like a broken system cuz I mean I've personally seen it before. I know you've posted videos that before where you'll go on Etsy and you'll see somebody just like completely ripping off someone's designs, whether they're like selling the print or even worse, they're just like straight up selling the stl, that they didn't design.
And, it's unfortunate, for those businesses and those designers who work so hard to make stuff that there's, not as much recourse that they can take as you might hope for. Yeah. and I think long term, from a, money making or a business strategy, I don't think 3D modeling is going to be very successful.
just the whole term starving artist, right? it's still the same in the 3D modeling space. I'm on several Facebook groups and,there's fiver. I think. there's all these places that 3D modelers are pushing their models to be sold, and it's a buyer's market right there.
there [00:48:00] are not very many people with 3D printers still in, in the grand scheme of things, right? but you have a ton of people 3D modeling, and it wasn't like it was five years ago where you had Eastman and FOS Man and Hicks and you had these really good 3D modelers that everybody went to, and there's just a few of them now.
There's hundreds if not thousands of 3D modelers out there. And then you have the whole copyright issue and trying to figure out how to protect that. I just think long term, you gotta be really lucky, and blessed, I think,to be one of those modelers that are, can do it full-time. and that's why sometimes I look at it and I go,if it happens, but I'm not going to expect it to happen because there's just, there's so many great people out there.
There's amazing modelers out there that I don't even know why they're not popular. yeah. And I try to promote 'em. I'm like, gee,this thing is just amazing. How, why are you not famous? right now? And, yeah. So I just look at it for long term. Like it's gonna be, 3D models are gonna just be a diamond dozen.
you're just gonna be, being able to [00:49:00] get it,so easily now. and so I 

don't wanna, Invest too much into that and be disappointed? I think so, but I don't wanna, I don't wanna say that to, to discourage 3D modelers. I think we still need 3D modelers and I think it, if you love doing it and you enjoy doing it, that's great. 
and still do that, follow your passions and hopefully that you will be successful. my wife calls me a pessimist, but I call myself a realist. but I just wanna make sure that, I still, I have real world issues that I have to take care of and so that's why I try to, I still try to encourage modelers.
I try to promote them when I can. if I see a really good model or see a really good model, I'll try to repost their stuff, to try to help them out and all that. Cuz I, I still think that it's something that we should do. I just don't, in my brain, my 46 year old brain, I think that it's gonna be a challenge for them to be like, Successful in a world where there's thousands of modelers out there doing that.
 I think it's why it's like one of those things that's so important to really, if it's something you're going into, like really [00:50:00] do it cuz you love it. Not cuz you, hope that you're gonna be able to get rich doing it. And like you said, if it happens, great But, I think it, for something specifically, like that's really key that you know you're doing it cuz that's where your passion's at.
You love it and regardless of what happens, you're gonna be happy with the outcome. Exactly. Yeah. Do it cuz you love it. Not cuz you have to do it. If you do it, if you end up having to do it cuz you have to do it, then you know that passion and that love and and just, you're just gonna be miserable, 
and I, and like with my normal job, my regular, nine to five job, I love doing that. And I'm blessed to be where I'm at. and, I enjoy doing what I do every day and I'm very fortunate there's not a lot of people out there that. Go to their job and love their job, and I just always have to remember that, I'm very fortunate and blessed, that I'm able to do what I can do and be able to do this as well.
I try to be positive. sometimes it doesn't come across maybe in some of the videos I do, but I do try to be positive and I do try to help people when I can. No, like I said, I think,from my [00:51:00] perspective at least, it always seems like your heart's like in a really good place.
And, even though maybe people don't want to hear it, I think it's a really important thing for them to hear. a big thing that I hear a lot of people, 

particularly who do design and it seems to be another area where people get a little hung up or a little confused is transformative art versus derivative art. 
can you touch on that a little bit? Sure. Everything is subjective. So when,I talked to the IP professor quite a bit and some other, intellectual property attorneys,you always have to take everything back a step and remember that everything is subjective and everything is specific to that individual case.
So it's, it's hard for lawyers to say anything in generalities, other than, the standard copyright stuff. But, so for example, one of the things that, like this piece of artwork right here, right? This is already been created and,it's already a work of art. If I went and took that thing and.
Turned him [00:52:00] into Spider Clown or Spider Santa or whatever and transformed it into something else, added something on top of a, that would be considered transformative work. derivative work is basically would be this. So I'm taking the idea of Spider-Man and creating a derivative of that Spider-Man.
The derivative would be him. Setting up on this post Soran transformative is literally, or simply put, is taking something an existing artwork and transforming it into another piece of artwork. derivative is taking the idea of something and creating, a derivative of it or a form of it.
And, what the IP professor will, I'll try to say it best as I can, in his words. transformative is an argument for defense. Of fair use. So meaning, if somebody says, if you ha had to go to court, and [00:53:00] somebody says you're infringing on copyright, you can say, I am not infringing on copyright. I'm using the fair use doctrine.
and it's considered a transformative work. you can't just say, this is a transformative work, just, and then sell it and say it's transformative work because it's a defense against, somebody claiming copyright infringement. and I can understand where people get really confused with the terminology of it all.
and the biggest things that I hear a lot of is, fan art as well. Fan, Yeah. The term fan art. and. 3D Musketeers did a and I always point to that video. 3D Musketeers did a great YouTube video with Seth Plansky, which is an IP attorney. And, Seth Plansky talked about that. He said, basically it's infringement fan art is infringement.

the Infringing Act is drawing Spider-Man is how he said it. And he said, if I drew Spider-Man and I put it on my wall in my bathroom, the Infringing Act is actually drawing Spider-Man. He said, [00:54:00] but is anybody gonna know about it? No. cuz it's in my bathroom now. He said, where it gets where you get in trouble is if you took that and you started, selling it in mass. 
so that's where you're, creating an unlicensed derived work. But that's a great video to watch. And then there was another one, From a IP attorney, at a San Diego Comic-Con back in 2010. And he explains a really good, 20 minute explanation about all of it. But,yeah, so transformative is essentially just transforming something that is already there, physically there, and turning it into something else.
derivative is just taking an idea like Spider-Man and making a version of your version of Spider-Man. And as long as it, if it causes customer or consumer confusion, that's where That's where you're running into those kind of issues. but yeah, I can always, I can tell when people do that cuz they'll use fan art and I'll say, I'm, this is fan art.
Yeah. Yeah. and essentially to a point, this is fan art to a point. if I [00:55:00] made this and I say, Hey, I really love Spider-Man cause I really love Spider-Man, I'm gonna make this cuz this is, This is just something I love to do and this is my fan art. It ceases to become fan art at the moment I start selling it.
So if you want to think of that in a simplistic term, cuz I can draw a picture of Spider-Man and put it on my wall and say, Hey, this is, I love Spider-Man. This is my fan art of Spider-Man. And that's perfectly fine. I think, in my opinion, but as soon as you, as soon as you start making money commercializing off of it, then it no longer becomes fan art.
And that's where a lot of people, in my opinion, is that's where the misinformation comes from. yeah. it's, it's so nuanced too. And I, again, it's another thing, like I, I do think that there's people out there who deliberately steered around it, but I also think there's a lot of people that, Most of us don't go to school for law.
Most of us aren't studying this stuff in our free time. So again, I see how it happens and I see where the confusion comes in, especially when you start throwing out terms like, fan art and like fair [00:56:00] use and public domain. I totally see how it gets like really murky, really fast. Yeah.

And there's a lot of, and a lot of misinformation out there as well. And I think, what I'm trying to do, I guess if somebody says, okay, what are you trying to do, Kevin? What really, what are you trying to do? what's your end goal? and I think I started this, it's been about a year, I started this probably from a negative perspective. 
And I think that's why some people probably will say, okay, you're doing this. Cuz it came from a bad place, I think for a very short time. like this is an open book kind of thing. But, there was a time where I wasn't doing very well in Patreon and I was really focused on. That being a success, like having a lot of people on Paton was equal success.
And then I would see other people that were being really successful. And then I got hit with the DM c a from wb, and then I started asking questions like everybody else starts asking questions. Why did I get hit? Why didn't they get hit? and then I was,I was down and then I, I think it [00:57:00] probably, maybe a couple times I outlasted, a little bit, and just from frustration and all that stuff.
And then, I woke up and said, okay, this is really, I just need to grow up. And, and then I looked at it, tried to do it from a positive light. And it's been a journey. we're not perfect, I'm not perfect. but I've tried to take something that was maybe a bad situation for me and turn it into a positive situation.
And then Now what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to just educate people and make sure that the new people coming in, that maybe starting a business and,doing things just to say, Hey, listen, do your research. Follow these people. Look up this stuff. Make sure you really understand copyright before you really get into your business and before you really start going down that path where you may not be able to turn around.
Because there, there are people out there that have started down that path maybe two or three years ago, and now they have a full-time business and they quit their day [00:58:00] job and they've got a 3D print farm or something and their 3D printing stuff that's infringement, They don't have licensing for it, but they're stuck.
They're like,I hope nobody comes and, shuts me down because I've invested all this time and energy and effort, and now I'm here and I'm I can't get out of it. And so that's what I'm really trying to do is just get those new people, Leanne, and just Hey, do your research.

Do look into all this. and you're an adult as long as you know the information, you can choose how you wanna do it. and so this funny thing,I'm friends with people that infringe all the time. And so it's I talk to people all the time that, That are making, 3D prints of things that they shouldn't be making 3D prints of. 
And,I just joke around with them all the time about it and they go, I know Kevin. I know. And I'm like, oh, as long as we're all adults here. and, we joke about it. that's, so that's what I hope I'm doing now, is trying to be more positive,and help those people, get the right information and, and just,[00:59:00] try to enjoy, try and enjoy doing what you're doing.
we're not here. we got limited time on this earth, so sometimes it's, You gotta worry about the big things. I appreciate you sharing that perspective and, it's, to the point that you were saying, I think it's really great that you're out there for those newer people and for those people who maybe aren't newer and maybe they know that they're infringing, I think everyone will have their different, I guess if you wanna call it an appetite for risk and what they're willing to take on and I guess, face the consequences if there are consequences in the future.
yeah, I think it's really an interesting, an interesting topic that again, like I said, not, I don't hear a lot of people talking about it, so I'm really glad that you do. a final thing I was curious about, and I'm not sure if I've heard this, and maybe it's, incorrect information from other people or maybe you'll have some insight on it, but I believe I've heard people express that there's certain, franchises, I believe Pokemon's one, or maybe there's.
A couple others where I think they say that, they're allowed to, there's just like a [01:00:00] mass, document that says that they're allowed to make art of, that is that, have you heard of that? I've heard one thing. somebody told me in the end user license agreement, which is, the 45 page document from Pokemon, somebody told me once that Pokemon basically allows you to create fan art and do whatever you want to do, with that fan art.
but if they like it, they can seize control of it. And then, Do whatever they want to do with it, so they can commercialize it and sell it and whatever. So I guess if you made a drawing of squirtle, and Pokemon liked that drawing of squirrel, they could say, okay, yeah, this is, this is our squirtle, we own that ip.
Now we're gonna be able to commercialize it, put it on t-shirts, and so on and so forth. yes. So what the hard, another hard part about that is each individual 

company, can do whatever they want. They can choose whether to enforce, infringement or even say if it's [01:01:00] infringement or not. I could be, let's say Coca-Cola, if I can say, Hey, you can. 
3D model all the Coca-Cola you want or make Coca-Cola t-shirts. but a lot of times they won't do that from a legal perspective because if they open up the can of worms, it says, yes, you can make derivatives, or unlicensed derivatives of our stuff. Then if they ever want to stop and find out.
And usually I find out somebody's making a lot of money off of it, right? And then they go, oh, wait. No, we're just kidding. We want to now shut it off and do that. yeah. but yes, it is true that you'd have to go to each individual. IP and ask them what they allow and what they don't allow because they can set their own rules, Pokemon, Nintendo or whatever.
you could, you can even say, all right, it's okay for you to do one, two, and three, but you can't do four, five, and six. interesting. That's why they can't say, that's why, lawyers can't say in generalities because each individual company, and even Marvel can get as granular as saying, you can do something for [01:02:00] this character, but you can't do something for this character.
So you can make Wolverine stuff, but you can't make Spider-Man stuff. And that's why it gets so granular. you really can't, a lawyer, if you ask an IP attorney, what about this? And they have to say, I have to see all of the data. I have to see wh which ip, which this, which is before they can make a judgment.
so yeah, that's another stickler because Warner Brothers may treat IP differently than Marvel. especially in the cosplayer realm,that's a really big thing. because cosplay, are cosplay, infringing, or are they not infringing? And I think from, initially no, I would say no, they're not infringing, because they're making most cos players make their stuff from scratch.
but. I think what we don't see is that the infringement actually happens in the 3D modeling space. So like I talked to lawyer Winton, and Lawyer Winton is really cool. he, I talked to him on a live and what's, what [01:03:00] really funny about him is he, he actually 3D prints and he does cos Oh the way and he does cosplay.
Wow. Yeah. You have an IP attorney that, so he was showing off his, like his cosplay stuff and he's yeah, I 3D printed this helmet. And I'm like, oh dude. I'm like, trying to talk to him in the live and say okay, cuz I wanted to ask these 

questions. And he said, yeah, I 3D printed this helmet and I'm not infringing because I'm not selling it. 
And then I'm like, okay. Okay. That's good. That's good. And and he even did this really big bane, cosplay. so I was really just trying to hammer him as much as I could. But basically he said, I said,what if you sold, the 3D model? he's, and he's yes, that's infringement.
If you make, the Ironman helmet, if you're not licensed by Marvel and you sell the Ironman helmet, that's infringement. But if you got a free Ironman helmet, from thing Averse, right? And you printed it and then you just wore it to a convention, you're not selling it. So that's okay [01:04:00] in his opinion.
he always has to say, in my opinion. so I think that's what we're seeing is we're seeing cosplay are like, yeah,we're doing all these things and it's not infringement, but you're like, okay, where did you get the model of that Iron Man? Did you get it from Do 3d? if you got it from 3d D 3D and you pay 20 bucks for it, is the modeler on D O three D.
Licensed, and that's where you get into the thing the cosplay is, okay, it's the 3D modeler that was actually at fault in that situation, so But you, it is just kinda like this rabbit hole that a lot of people don't want to go down. So yeah, it's, hard when you really love a hobby and really love something to,to hear that kind of stuff.
And I've never gotten into cosplay, but I've always had a big appreciation for it. it seems like a really, just really cool, and like the things I see some people make, it's just I, so I was, actually right before this, I'm not sure if Matt from Wild Stallions Printing, he does like art.
Oh yeah. Twos and stuff like that. yeah. He,I didn't know, but he [01:05:00] actually, used to do, I don't know if he refers to it as cosplay, but like he, made like this chewba suit and Darth Mall and like all these, but. He like, similar to how he does his R two D two s, like so meticulous and just like it looks like movie quality.
Yeah. So I, it's just so interesting to me seeing what people make in their own house and just like how far people can go with it. Yeah. and the argument a lot of people will say is you don't want to hurt your fan base, right? Marvel in DC Star Wars, they, they don't wanna start going after a lot of people, especially, cos players.

And I think cosplay for the most part are, doing things, under the, the idea that they're okay. And I think for the most part they are, they spend a lot of time, months and months on these things. And, I think,it money is always the root of all evil. I call it, if we had this repository of all these free 3D models of all these characters and you could go and download all these free 3D models for your cosplay, I think in the grand sense of it, I think it would be great for everybody, right? 
For the [01:06:00] community. But somebody somewhere figured out that they could make money, Hey, somebody's, I made an Iron Man helmet and somebody wants to pay me for it. Sure. And then, and then, like I said, they go down that rabbit hole and do that. But, but yeah, usually it ends up being,money driven.
So sad to say. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin, I really enjoyed our conversation. I feel like I learned so much, particularly on the IP copyright side. so it's a really interesting conversation. maybe if people have like more, questions on this topic, they wanna check out your content and like what you do also your 3D models, your Patreons, where can they find you across the board?
Sure. So I'm pretty much everywhere. We'll start with Instagram. You can find me on Instagram at Kevin's 3D Creations. you can see a lot of the past stuff I've done. usually that's for showcasing stuff that I'm doing in the modeling space. And then, on TikTok at K three D C underscore and Twitter is the same thing, K three d C underscore there.
I like TikTok, and I'm there [01:07:00] most of the time, because it's a good video interaction and you can get a lot of content out in a little bit of time. you can do there. And then I have a YouTube channel, Kevin's 3D Creations where, I upload videos of all of the creations and how I actually made them.
And so if you're interested in learning how to do things, infusion 360 or how I did things in Infusion 360, I have a channel there that you can, you can check out. Awesome. thank you again for coming on today, and that is our episode of Meet the Makers. All right, thank you very much.