Tank Talk - Bulk Fuel Podcast
Tank Talk - Bulk Fuel Podcast is a podcast that delves into various aspects of environmental management and regulations, mainly focusing on bulk fuel storage, fish processing, and utility facilities across the Pacific Northwest. Hosted by industry expert Shannon Oelkers, Tank Talk features discussions with industry leaders to answer questions commonly asked by terminal managers. Episodes cover various topics involving State and Federal regulations, tank inspections and permits, and industry vendors. Tune in to navigate the complexities of rules and operations, offering insights and information to listeners involved or interested in environmental compliance and best practices within specialized industries.
Tank Talk - Bulk Fuel Podcast
Fuel Quality featuring Walter Chartrand
Walter Chartrand, chemist and trainer with the Aviation Training Association, joins Shannon to break down one of the most critical topics in fuel handling: fuel quality.
From what “Clean, Dry, On-Specification” really means to the Shore / Store / Deliver framework, Walter shares decades of experience in aviation fuels and storage. Listeners will learn how contaminants like water, solids, and microbes get into fuel, what tests should be run at each custody transfer, and which standards every operator should know.
Walter also discusses documentation, training, and real-world lessons to help fuel managers protect product quality, avoid costly mistakes, and keep operations safe.
This episode is packed with insights for bulk fuel managers, operators, and anyone responsible for keeping fuel quality in check.
🎧 Tune in to hear practical insights you can apply in your facility today.
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Welcome to Tate Talk with Integrity Environmental. Join us as we sit down with founder, principal consultant, and bulk fuel storage expert Kennet Ulfert to explore regulations, safety, and essential tips for navigating the bulk fuel storage industry. Join us as we explore the unique joys of work and life in Alaska with industry experts, including our team, vendors we work with, and the companies we support.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome to Tink Talk. This is Shannon Olkers, and I am excited today to have Walter Chartrand, a dashing debonaire trainer and chemist from the Aviation Training Association. And he's here to explore one of the most important and exciting topics in fuel handling. Spoiler alert, there are controlled explosions. We're going to talk about fuel quality today. Walter, welcome to the show. Could you please introduce yourself and give our listeners a brief overview of your background? How did you find yourself in fuels?
SPEAKER_00:Shannon, it's it's a pleasure to be here. I was born a very small child, and at a young age, my father's very dear friend took me flying, and I was immediately hooked in love with aviation. I got my pilot's license and my driver's license on the same day when I was 16 and went on to college to get an associate's degree in aeronautical science, and I got all my flying ratings and was flying professionally and loved it. Actually, wanted to work for the airlines, interviewed with some airlines that are now only found in museums. And it was kind of at the end of the Vietnam War, and they had all kinds of pilots, so they wanted a four-year degree, and my associate's degree didn't cut it. So I went back to college, and during that time I was managing the corporate jet service center at Houston's Intercontinental Airport while I went to night school to get a mechanical engineering degree. And when I finished that degree, Exxon actually hired me as a marketing technical services specialist and sent me around the world teaching me about fuel.
SPEAKER_03:All right. So your heart belongs to the air and your wallet belonged to Exxon. I don't think too many pilots go back to night school to get mechanical engineering degrees, Walter.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I was that odd man out, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'm so glad you're here today. And fuel quality is a big, broad term for a whole series of tests, operational procedures, and systems that all these different organizations have developed to ensure fuel quality stays high. All of that that I just said can kind of be summed up in this one phrase called clean, dry, and on spec. And I was hoping, Walter, you could just, you know, we have listeners of all capabilities. So for some people, that term will be very familiar. For some, it'll be new. Could you just go over the basics and tell us what clean, dry, and on spec means?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. And that's a very all-encompassing phrase, and it applies to all fuels. But when we talk in aviation about clean, the standard for filtration on jet fuel is one micron. And everybody asks me, well, what's a micron? Well, it's a millionth of a meter. Okay, what's that? So a human hair is approximately 70 micron, and we can typically see to about 40 micron. A red blood cell is eight micron. So think about this. We filter jet fuel down to one micron. So it really helps explain how these jet engines have no tolerance for any solid particulate matter. So that's really clean. When we're talking about dry, it's not like martini dry. Darn it. More like Arizona Desert Dry. The term really refers to entrained water. Because we have a hydrocarbon, a liquid carbon, many times water can develop in these products. And what our job is to ensure that the fuel coming into storage and the fuel going into the airplane has less than 15 parts per million of water. So that's really critical because as we take fuel to altitude, water comes out of this entrained state to a free water state. And once we're in flying and freezing temperatures, now we have solids in the fuel. Solids really isn't good because the engines get quiet.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, quiet engines are never good on a boat or in the air.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, pilots don't like quiet. And the last one, the on spec, on specification, really means that the product has not been altered in any way from when it was manufactured by being cross-contaminated with something different, a different fuel. So the way we do that is really API gravity to make sure that the gravity of the product at time of receipt is within tolerance from when it was manufactured. That's what we mean by on specification.
SPEAKER_03:Could you provide a brief overview of API gravity for some of our listeners that maybe are unfamiliar with it?
SPEAKER_00:So American Petroleum Institute sets the standard for this. And what we're doing is we're measuring the weight of the product. So all our different fuel products, all different fluids, have different gravities. So when we're measuring the gravity, for example, in jet fuel, it's 39 degrees API to 51 degrees API. So in that range, when we make jet fuel, it has to be in that range. But when we make a specific batch, when that's done, we actually take a sample and get a gravity and hear that gravity with that fuel so we can follow it through the delivery chain to make sure it hasn't changed.
SPEAKER_03:And API gravity is tested with a device that a lot of people have in their back rooms. And could you talk a little bit about that device in case they're I want them to tie what we're talking about to something that they they've probably done, but maybe don't even know that that's what it's called.
SPEAKER_00:So there's a glass thermo hydrometer that in the bottom has a thermometer in. I wish I had one I could just show you. And the top is the scale in API degrees for measuring the fuel. So, for example, up the North Pole refining, they make jet fuel and they load it into rail cars and rail it down to Anchorage. Well, when it came off the distillation tower in production, it was warm. But during the rail car ride to Anchorage, it cooled. So the thermometer part of the hydrometer is really to change that so we're all talking about the same thing. We convert the observed gravity to 60 degrees API so that the folks in Anchorage are looking at the same gravity as the folks in North Pole refining.
SPEAKER_03:And there's a conversion chart that comes with that thermometer. And so you read the temperature, there's a little chart, and you say if it's 59 degrees, you go over, and then it gives you a number, and that should match what the sample taken at creation or quote.
SPEAKER_00:And Shannon, with today's technology, we take those charts and even put them in a conversion wheel that we call a WYSI wheel, economically. And that has the correction. So we put the observed gravity on there, and it's the old slide rule I used in college years ago, long before calculators. And we take the observed temperature and then we convert that to 60 degrees. Matter of fact, today they even have automatic digital handheld units that do this. They're very expensive, but modern technology.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like I have seen an app as well. I think there's an API gravity app where you can just put it in and an autocalx AI map and do it as well. It's just a conversion chart. Just a conversion chart. Thank you for taking that detour on API gravity because we'll go through all of these in this podcast. But I do think for a lot of our guys, they are checking that temperature and they're converting it. But I want to tie it back to the fact that we want to make sure that the fuel hasn't fundamentally changed its composition. So it's not jet fuel with a little bit of gasoline in it, for example, or jet fuel with a little bit of diesel, or enough water that it's changed something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, water really, it's interesting. Water won't change the specific gravity of the fuel, but it makes the fuel wet. When you have a different product of enough volume, then it would change the specific gravity, but it'd be a pretty high volume.
SPEAKER_03:You'd be noticing. You could visually see it. Okay. So we've got clean dry on spec. Where is that most critical to measure? Because we're not measuring the fuel every single hour of every single day. So are there some junctures in the fuels journey, perhaps, where that clean dry on spec is more important?
SPEAKER_00:In the industry, we call it point of custody transfer. In training, I tell people you don't want to put counterfeit money in your bank account. So when the product changes hands from one person to another at the barge, at the terminal, at the airport, when the product is being received, that's when we need to make sure that it's not counterfeit money. So that's where we're going to do that API gravity to ensure, like you say, that it's not cross-contaminated or commingled with some other product. Because when we do the gravity, that will determine if that has happened. The other test that we do sometimes is Flashpoint, but that really measures very high vapor products in lower vapor products.
SPEAKER_03:So when we're looking at the counterfeit money, how do we know the fuel is what it's supposed to be? Like what information do we need to understand that what we ordered is what we got?
SPEAKER_00:Great question. So when the fuel is produced, so we're at the refinery, we pulled some product off the distillation tower, we put it in a big tank. What's going to happen is they're going to get a top, a middle, and a bottom sample, a composite sample of the fuel in that tank. They're going to take it to the lab and they're going to run it against the specification for that fuel. For example, jet fuel is ASTMD 1655. So they'll run that battery of tests to verify that the product meets that specification standard. And once that happens, once they know they have passed all the criteria tests for that product, for that specification, they create a certificate of analysis. And that C of A certificate of analysis really is the birth certificate for that fuel. And it has to follow the fuel wherever it goes. So when someone is receiving fuel, there should be a few documents. One is the bill of lading. That really is the transfer document. That's the transportation of the fuel. But the other is this certificate of analysis that says when this fuel was made, here's the criteria, here's the test results showing that it passed all these tests. And some of them, like API gravity, are ways we can use in the field to determine if the fuel is still on spec and not cross-contaminated with something else.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so congratulations. You have a 500,000-pound baby boy load of Jedi. You did mention contaminants or cross-contaminants at the end, and I think this is germane to the rest of this conversation. Could we talk about what are the most common contaminants that do show up in fuel when you're checking to see if you got what you ordered?
SPEAKER_00:Interestingly enough, it's all the stuff that we didn't put in when we made the product. So there's a list of things that can occur. The most common is water contamination. And the reason this is so high on the scale is because as the temperature of the fuel changes, condensation will occur. So water contamination is really bad because it causes a lot of other problems, like microbial growth, where there's bugs growing at the fuel water interface. And that's really the reason behind the sumping and the removing of water bottoms. The second is probably the solid contamination. These are particulates of debris, rust, dust, chips of paint, all the stuff we find in fuel systems and in low point drains. And degradation of the product because of long-term or stagnant storage is a concern. I know in the part of the world that you habitat in, sometimes things are very seasonal and fuel is delivered to a location, but then winter happens and nobody goes to that location for an extended period of time. That's where we really need to make sure that we don't have any degradation of the product because of long-term storage. And when I say stagnant storage, what I mean is nothing going in, nothing coming out, nobody recirculating the fuel. That's stagnant storage. And last I'd say is that cross-contamination that we addressed with the hydrometer and dissimilar product, but then again, that's done at time of receipt. And once the fuel is in your tank, it really doesn't matter because you know you've checked it and it's good that good money is in your bank account.
SPEAKER_03:Well, sometimes people can transfer fuel from tanks to tanks, like for consolidating storage. And you can, I have seen some cross-contamination issues from moving fresh diesel into old diesel, for example, or mixing batches, if you will, for like you've got half a tank of Jedi and you're adding another half a tank when the barge shows up. So there are there are some cross-contamination issues, even if you're all in the same tank. But Walter, let's talk about these contaminants because I want to explore how they get into the fuel in the first place. Because for a whole lot of our listeners, this ties back to their operations and maintenance and the reasons why we do a lot of the things we do to keep these contaminants out. Let's start with condensation and water. Like, how do you keep water out of your tank, out of your fuel?
SPEAKER_00:So water can be introduced into fuel several different ways. The most common is just due to condensation and temperature change. So a tank half full is going to condensate more than a tank that's full. And it's all about the airspace where the moisture is. So one of the reasons we have more happening of microbial growth in the spring and the fall is because we get wider temperature changes. So when there's a 20-degree temperature change from day to night, we know that the tank's going to be condensating moisture. So many times when I do audits or inspections and they bring me the sheet, and I know it's springtime, and I know it was cold last night and it's going to be warm today, and they say there was no water sumped out of the tank. I sometimes question that. And I that causes me to go out there and do it myself because I don't believe.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm like, are you sure about that? Now I will say many of our locations are as dry as deserts. Some of our locations, especially in western Alaska, can be dry, not for the whole year, though. But I did want to talk about that water piece because I do think there's like a myth or a misconception that some of the storage in Alaska, it's just so dry that there's no water. And I'm like, I don't know if I believe that.
SPEAKER_00:What about it's actually a four-syllable word? You may have heard it before. It's behul shahit.
SPEAKER_03:We're gonna have to rate this PG, Walter.
SPEAKER_00:There goes there goes our rating, huh? Well, you've got to remember that the temperature is going to change, and as it does, condensation will occur. I mean, the sun comes up in the east, and hydrocarbons condensate moisture. Those are just facts of the world. So whether you're in Phoenix, Arizona or Anchorage, Alaska, hydrocarbons condensate moisture. And the amount is going to vary by the amount of moisture in the air. So there are fluctuations, but I guarantee you we don't have the ATA-103 standards and these standards for maintaining fuel requiring daily sumps without reason.
SPEAKER_03:And Walter, you're talking about daily sumps, which is part of the aviation standards for aircraft fueling. There are some requirements for some of our other products, like diesel and gasoline for like vehicle fueling, marine or land-based. Those typically have monthly sumps because if a vehicle or a vessel runs into fuel contamination issues, they don't fall out of the sky. Although I would argue for many of our vessels, having bad fuel is almost as dangerous as being in an aircraft. So daily sumps is sort of the aviation gold standard, at least monthly is the next level of something. And I would even say if you are in a moist area, maybe you could opt to do it more frequently. But we've talked about water, but there's some other particulates that can get into things. And then there's some pieces of the system that we need to talk about because sometimes fuel quality can be impacted by parts of the system failing. So do you want to talk about like filters, Walter? Because filters are tricky, right?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. And back to your point on diesels and gasoline, middle distillates like diesels or heating oil or jet fuel, they will condensate moisture. Gasolines, on the other hand, because of their effervescence, because they're benzene-based, don't really condensate moisture as readily. Most commonly, when we have contamination in a gasoline, it's by introduction of water into the tank. Leaking manway, increased water table, rusting tank, something like that. Sideways rain through the vent. Sideways rain through the vent, only in Alaska, not in the lower 48.
SPEAKER_03:So in Alaska, we definitely see micro debris, like really fine silts. You can't see them, but they're blowing into the vents through the air. And sometimes we also get ash particles from like wildfires and things. Those can enter a tank and be part of the contamination of the fuel. But all of those like physical particulates, they show up in the filters. And I just wanted to take a minute to talk about differential pressure and like, you know, if a filter fails, it can introduce stuff downstream of that filter too. So would you mind talking about differential pressure and filter rupture real quick for how fuel could get contaminated?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. So I'd mentioned earlier that we filter fuels typically down to one micron. So as the filter or as fuel goes through the filter, it removes solid contaminants. As it mitigates through the pleated paper, through the fiberglass onto a cotton sock, it causes the coalescence of water. So we're filtering for particulates by going from inside to outside on a pleated paper filter, and then coalescing water using fiberglass and a cotton sock on the outside of a filter coalescer element. That causes the water to increase in bead size to a point that when it's heavier than the fuel, it sinks to the low point and we sump the filter under pressure. Downstream of that is a separator, and the separator is kind of an insurance policy to make sure we have no fine mist of water going downstream. These are all measured with a differential pressure gauge. And the gauge is key on telling us how much contaminant is in the pleated paper restricting the flow. Because as we have more solid contaminants being pulled out of the fuel by the pleated paper filter, it's going to restrict the flow going through that filter. So we'll see an increase in differential pressure. And the standard is that you can't have more than a maximum of 15 psi difference between the inlet and the outlet of the elements. Because once you get to that point, then every time you turn on the pump, you're challenging that filter with a fluid hammer. And if there's too much restriction, you'll have the filter actually blow out and the DP go back down to zero. The key to this is rated flow of the vessel. So we correct the differential pressure to the rated flow of the vessel. And in many times, I see the applications are way over engineered. They've got a big filter because they think it's going to do a great job. It's a 400 gallon a minute filter and they're running at 100 gallons a minute. So the difference is that it's going to be a fourth of what you're observing on the scale if you're only running at 100 gallons a minute when the filter is designed to run at 400 gallons a minute. So now three psi on that gauge times the four is 12. Now we're getting pretty close to 15, but we're looking at the gauge and only seeing three and thinking we're good.
SPEAKER_03:I hope all of our listeners just wrote that down on their notes because we definitely do not see that retained in the field. I think a lot of people have that 15 number in their mind, and they're not looking at the flow through rate. They're just looking at the number that's displayed on the scale. And Walter, could you talk about when you should read the differential pressure? Because I have also seen this in the field. When is the best time to read your differential number?
SPEAKER_00:First, I've got to tell you a fun story.
SPEAKER_03:Yay!
SPEAKER_00:I'm working in a Middle Eastern country. And I'm looking at the inspection check sheets, and it says differential pressure, and the number is zero. And I'm looking across weeks of this, and differential pressure is recorded at zero. So I ask Ahmed, I said, Achmed, show me where you get this number. And he walks me out to this absolutely beautiful stainless steel fueling cabinet, opens the door without the pump running and fuel going through the system, points at the gauge, and what does the gauge say? Zero. Zero. Zero. He writes down zero. Because it's off. So I said, Well, Ahmed, tell me who taught you to do this. He said, Well, they told me to come out and write down what the gauge said. And he listened to the gauge, and the gauge didn't say anything. So he looked at the gauge and wrote down zero.
SPEAKER_04:We always try to zeros.
SPEAKER_00:We arranged the valves for recirculation through the system from the tank through the filter or through the pump through the filter back to the tank and start the unit. And the gauge moved and he jumped. Because he'd never seen the gauge move. So to answer your question, the thing that we teach people is if we do our QCs, our quality control checks, the same time or same way every time, we're going to get a benchmark of what we're supposed to see. So typically in aviation, it's every morning at the start of the day. And going back to our conversation about something in water, that's the time is the coolest it's going to get before it starts to warm, so that moisture is readily available to be extracted from the tank. So if we set up the system or the truck, whatever it is, to recirculate from tank through the pump, through the filter, back to tank with all the valves open, that's probably as fast as that system or truck is going to run. So that's the optimum time to look at the differential pressure at the maximum flow. But it's also the key time to figure out what the flow rate is. Does it match the filter? Is it half what the filter's rated for? Where are we? And we even help our customers with a quick little Excel spreadsheet. You just type in the numbers, rated flow of the vessel, observe DP, and it corrects it for you. So be glad to share that with you and your customers as well.
SPEAKER_03:We will take that resource. Also, if you're listening to this and you're thinking in your head, I don't know what my filter can do, and it should be printed on the filter, correctly.
SPEAKER_00:Correct? Yeah, there should be a data plate, but sometimes we paid over those. Hopefully we don't. But we can do some research if we have the serial number of the vessel and the elements that are in it and convert and tell you exactly what it's rated for.
SPEAKER_03:If you generally are able to buy replacement filters for your filter, you should be able to figure out what its rating is at some point.
SPEAKER_00:I'd be glad to help you do that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I know for a lot of our facilities, a lot of the historical information is missing. Or we have filter vessels that were installed in the 1950s post-World War II. And so the information on those is a little dicey, you know? There's just it's been lost over time. So I know quite a few of our listeners are like, I don't know. Or they or they have 25 facilities and they have different filter vessels in multiple locations at all of those facilities.
SPEAKER_04:So there's no consistency.
SPEAKER_00:And and I run into the situation that there's not a meter that somebody can determine what the actual flow is. So sometimes just transferring from one tank to the other tank and sticking those tanks and getting a volume before and after, and you using Mickey Mouse's on the watch and the meter, you can figure out what the flow rate is.
SPEAKER_03:There are workarounds, but what I want our listeners to take away though is it's important to know what your transfer rate is and know the rating of your filter vessel because you can have a reading of three which looks compliant, but you could be forcing contamination through that filter if you've got a low flow and a high capacity filter, and you can have contamination showing up on the other side. And we want to make sure we get those numbers right, especially for critical things like fueling up marine vessels and aircraft. I mean, those are very important. So that was a very long talk about contaminants. Let's bring it back to the fuels journey because fuel starts at a refinery and then it is transported, it's stored, it's delivered, and it ultimately ends up at its final destination, whether that's fueling an aircraft or generating electricity or you know, into the boat for transportation or whatever the boat is doing. I wanted to talk about when do we check fuel quality in that process and then what tests are we supposed to be performing along the way? Because there are some specific recommended tests from all, and we'll talk about these ASTMs at the end if you want to reference them more. But I just want to talk about that process and like where we do fuel quality checks and like what sort of tasks need to be performed there.
SPEAKER_00:Great question. Aviation product is probably a little bit different than most, but again, I take you back to the point of custody transfer. Many times I tell folks that you really can't change the specification of the fuel so that when we receive fuel in the field from the refinery, what we're doing is number one, ensuring the quality, but number two, we're in charge, once we accept that fuel, of maintaining the quality. So at Points of Custody Transfer, we we do several different tests. First is just a plain old white bucket evaluation. And this is really not even a test, it's an evaluation. We put the product in a white bucket to see if there's color, because color tells us that we've got some other contaminant in there. It also will tell us if we've got water particulates. So the color of fuel is really critical at that point. The second one is what we call the clear and bright, and there this is an ASTM test where we actually put the product in a clear glass jar and look horizontally through the product. So the white bucket, we're looking vertically into the product. In the clear and bright, we're looking through the product, and we can create a vortices with the sample jar and collect any solid particular and water particulates to the bottom, and it and it's a visual clear and bright. And there's a scale rating for both the white bucket and the clear and bright.
SPEAKER_03:For our listeners, because they can't see us. When you held up your clear and bright test and said vortice, you swirled it. You're making a little tornado inside to sort of funnel the particulates down to the bottom to make it easier to see. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it centers if we create a little swirl in there, a little tornado in the bottom, vortices. It'll collect any water and particulates to the center of the sample jar, condensing them so that we can actually see them. Better. And the last is the API gravity. So the white bucket and the clear and bright really are about a visual evaluation. And should that be bad, we might not have to go any further. But if those are all good, then we're going to do a gravity. And as we talked about, gravity is confirming that we're not cross-contaminated with dissimilar product.
SPEAKER_03:So if we ordered jet fuel, we're getting jet fuel and that it is close to or exactly on what its birth certificate says. So I just translating for some of our Alaskan listeners, when you're receiving fuel from a barge, they should be providing you a sample before delivery where you can perform the clear and bright and the white bucket test prior to accepting the fuel and the API gravity test as well. Correct, Walter? They provide a sample from the barge, you do your clear and bright, you do your white bucket, you do your API gravity. If that all checks out and you're getting 100% real money, then you authorize the barge transfer. And that's that's one of the points of custody. There are other points of custody where we're going to do those exact same tests, though. Is that correct? Or is that the big one?
SPEAKER_00:Well, if the fuel is to be delivered to somewhere else, a pre-airfield terminal or uh airfield storage, or so again, anytime we're making an actual custody transfer, once it's our fuel in our tank, those tests get changed to maintenance operations. So once the fuel is received, your job now is just to maintain the quality, not ensure that you don't have any cross-contamination.
SPEAKER_03:But if you are a company that's in charge of delivering a product to a client, you would expect them to also be performing their own quality checks to make sure that what they've received from you is what they ordered.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Yeah, when I work with pilots even before they fueled their aircraft, I teach them to ask for a sample. I mean, it's you getting in that airplane. Certainly you want to make sure the fuel's good. There's something about off-airport landings that doesn't sound good.
SPEAKER_03:Quiet engines and off-airport landings. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Do you know why there's a propeller on the front of the airplane? Why? Keeps the pilot cool because when it quits turning, he starts sweating like hell.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh. We're gonna have the best dad joke list at the end of this episode. So, Walter, we just talked about receiving fuel and making sure that we got what we paid for at that stage. And then you mentioned storage and we talked about delivery. Those are the life cycle of the fuel. We talked about the quality checks when we receive it. Are there other quality checks that we should do when we store it and then upon delivery?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I mean, upon receipt, when and where the fuel is delivered to a pre-air filled storage, this is where we want to do the clean, dry, on spec test to make sure that we have the product we we ordered prior to receipt. And then, of course, storage, where we're storing the fuel. Once the fuel is received, the quality must be maintained to ensure that when we get to the next step, delivery, upon delivery, and prior to the fuel being delivered to a retail outlet or especially delivery to an aircraft, the fuel quality must be ensured and documented. Because should something bad happen, that's where people are going to ask hard questions. And if we have documentation that we've done these quality control checks, it bodes into our favor in defending ourselves against lawsuits.
SPEAKER_02:Let's not talk about lawsuits on this podcast too deep, Walter.
SPEAKER_03:But I do want to talk about it, seems like there's three categories. And I I've heard you use this memory device before. It's like shore, store, and deliver. It sounds like something you'd say at a bar right before you got some alcohol delivered to your table. But I do think it's a good way to sort of keep it straight in your head that there's tests required at the shore, right? When you get it, there's tests required as you are storing it, and then there are tests required upon delivery. We've gone pretty in-depth on shore already. Let's talk about storing it. And for this conversation, let's keep it to aviation fuels because that's the gold standard. They have a little higher criteria. But if you're listening to this, know that some of the other products maybe have uh lower frequency, but it's still the same stuff. So maybe not daily, monthly. So let's talk about something. Can we talk about something while we store? Because the aviation has some requirements.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So a unique aside, when we're sumping or removing water and contaminants from a low point of a tank, the pump doesn't have to be running. However, when we sump a filter vessel, the pump has to be running and there has to be pressure in order to evacuate the low points of the vessel. So in sumping tanks, we're we're looking for the same kind of criteria, the white bucket evaluation. We're really confirming the correct color in jet fuel, it's clear to straw by looking vertically into the sample of a gallon or more. The second would be like the clear and bright we'd mentioned, using that clear jar, we visually look horizontally through the product and we ensure no contaminants, solid contaminants, or water. Once the product has been received, we really don't have to do a gravity unless the customer at point of transfer is asking for a gravity of the fuel. Sometimes with airplanes, they they want to do that for weight and balance purposes.
SPEAKER_03:They deliver fast professional plans designed for real-world use so you can stay compliant without any headaches. Our team has decades of experience, works directly on job sites, and knows exactly what it takes to keep your project running smoothly. Plus, every bid includes a free hour of consulting because when issues come up, you're gonna need those answers and fast. Stay ahead of compliance. Get a bid today, send us an email at info at integrity-env.com. Integrity, stormwater solutions you can trust. Walter, I'd also like to bring up that for some of our listeners, they have really large tanks, millions of gallons. And when you're doing a water draw on a tank, there is a small pipeline that goes to the sump or the low point of the tank. And when you're performing a water draw on a tank, and if you're doing it correctly, that pipeline is full of fuel. So you have to know how much fuel is in that little pipeline that goes, you know, it's like an inch or less. It goes to that sump. You actually have to pull the full volume of that pipe out before you get to the water. So for a lot of people, when they do a water draw, they open the nozzle from the water draw and fuel comes out and they say there's no water. But you have to pull the three-gallon, five-gallon, I've I've seen as much as 15 gallons for some really large tanks that have larger diameter water draw piping. You have to pull all that fuel out before you will ever get to the water. And so I do want people to recognize that they need to know their tank and they need to understand what water draw displacement volume they have to pull first. And once you do know it, you can actually stencil it on the side of the tank. So everybody who comes after you knows that you have to pull five gallons out before you get to the sump or 3.5 or whatever. I feel like that's a really common misconception for tank sumping because it's super, it feels right that you open the nozzle, only fuel is coming out. And it might come out for a gallon, two gallons, three gallons, and you're like, there's no water, but you're still going through that pipe that's going to the sump. So I did want to take a moment to talk about that in my never-ending crusade against water.
SPEAKER_00:It's interesting that you're right on the money. I mean, you've got to displace the volume of the sampling piping in order to see a representative sample of the bottom of the tank. And I have the same problem, Shannon, in above-ground horizontal tanks, because the pump is at man level outside the tank, but the pipe goes all the way up the tank and all the way over and all the way down into the tank. And the same thing. They'll thief off a half a gallon or gallon and think they got a representative sample of the bottom of the tank, and all they did was get a core sample of what's in the pipe.
SPEAKER_03:They turn it off right when it gets good. They're like, yep, we're done.
SPEAKER_00:I'm like, no, it's but yeah, it's it's really great. And I and I know when I go on audits and inspections, when I see that placard that says must sump five gallons prior to sampling. In other words, in many cases they call it a fash flush. They run five gallons through the system without even looking, just to flush the line. Then they do the sample to see what's in the bottom of the tank.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like that's a part of the training that just gets missed or forgotten really quickly. And, you know, we're a different workforce now. We've got really young people that don't have a 30-year bench in the fuels industry to understand the construction of the tank and why you would need to do that. So if you're listening to this and you're responsible for something, one, figure out your sump volumes. And two, create some kind of memory guide and training aid so that if you, you know, the turnover's high, like once you're gone, maybe someone behind you will have that sump at least five gallons reminder so that they, you know, that's painted on the tank to help them retain that knowledge.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's so important, and and my company does a lot of training that we teach people not only how to do the task, but why it's critically important to do it that way. And so as you mentioned, it's kind of helping fill in the blanks to understand why do I have to do that. And many times when people understand the why, the how becomes easy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and they can problem solve when something's not going right. I mean, I've had people have their water sumps freeze and break the pipe and they can't understand why they can never get water out, and it's because the pipe is split and they're just sucking the tank dry. Also, as a side note, if you are somebody responsible for getting API 653 inspections of your tank, you can ask the inspector to calculate your sump volume based on the length and diameter of the pipe while they're inside the tank doing their inspection. So, pro tip if you don't know what your sump volume is on a larger vertical tank, you can absolutely ask your uh API 653 inspector to help you with that. So the last stage in the shore store deliver is deliver, Walter. And we talked about at delivery, we want to do daily tank and filter sumps on both the storage tank, also the delivery vehicle, correct? Yes. Is there anything else at delivery that we should be knowledgeable about or think about before we transition the fuel to the next step at delivery?
SPEAKER_00:We talked a little bit about differential pressure. This is one of those key points where differential pressure has to be within limits because if you were to burst the filter element at that point, all the dirt had been collecting and all the filter media would go into the aircraft. So really critical on differential pressure at point of delivery. And many times when when there's a problem, a nozzle screen inspection will really help us determine what the symptoms are. But also we want to make sure that the fuel is dry at point of delivery. And there's several tests that we can use that can confirm to us that we can document that there's less than 15 parts per million of water.
SPEAKER_03:So when you say nozzle screen, Walter, I'm gonna go back to that. Is that like I'm just imagining somebody like holding the fuel nozzle and looking in it like the classic cartoon setup for the hose to come undone and spray them in the eye? How do you do a nozzle screen inspection? Because I've seen Dave do it and it's not what I thought it was gonna be.
SPEAKER_00:Well, on any aviation overwing nozzle, as you unscrew the tip from the nozzle itself where the grip and the trigger are, there should be a conical screen in there. In single point nozzles, where it's uh closed circuit fueling for an aircraft, you actually have to uh remove the hose from the nozzle to inspect the screen.
SPEAKER_03:Most of the ones that I've seen, it's overwing fueling. They're unscrewing the end of the nozzle, they're popping off. It looks almost like a drinking water screen on your sink, right? At home. It pops off. And then you want to look at the back side of it, right? You don't want to unscrew it, see the outside, and say everything's good. You actually have to pull it out and look on the inside of the cone, correct?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Typically I'll ask for a white piece of paper sitting on something flat, take that conical shape screen and tap it out to see if there's anything that comes out of the nozzle. And those are all symptoms. If we've got black rubber chunks, that tells us the hose is coming apart. If we've got white fibrous material, it tells us a filter is coming apart. So it's sad to find it out there. Certainly with these other tests, we should realize those issues sooner. But it's the last point before the fuel gets in the airplane. It's a hundred mesh or a hundred micron. So we filtered down to one micron, and now if we find chunks in a hundred micron nozzle screen, that means there's probably been a lot of stuff got into the airplanes.
SPEAKER_03:Gotcha. And what's the frequency for a nozzle screen inspection?
SPEAKER_00:You know, interesting question. ATA 103 recently changed it from a monthly inspection to a weekly inspection.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, interesting. Okay. So weekly. So part if if you deliver fuel to aircraft using a fuel truck and you're doing overwing fueling, or I guess I don't know about the other one, the direct connect, but you're supposed to be doing a weekly inspection of that screen fitting.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And then can we go back to the filter membrane test? Because I just called it the Millipore test, I think. And I didn't know it was called because that's what everyone calls it. And this is where there's like a little white screen, and you put it in a baggie and you compare it to this chart. So could you talk about the filter membrane test and sort of just describe what it is?
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. Millipore is the company that actually makes the filter media used in this test. It's the ASTMD 2276 filter membrane test. And you're right. We have a little capsule with a backup pad and a very fine membrane that's 0.8 micron. So even finer than the filters we're using to filter the fuel. And we pass fuel through this membrane in a known amount, and then we take it out and compare that to a color chart. And the color chart is ABG, amber, brown, gray. And there's different intensities of these colors in these little comparison books, and we identify what contaminant, if any, there exists. So amber would typically tell us we've got a rust contamination. Brown would typically tell us we've got a dirt contamination. And the gray to black scale typically tell us if we have an elastomer or rubber or hose or we have metals in the fuel. So this little chart is to identify what type of contaminant and to what intensity that contaminant exists.
SPEAKER_03:Would microbes Walter, would microbes show up on that scale? Where would micro, like if there's microbial contamination of the fuel, would that show up as a color?
SPEAKER_00:It could, but you've got to remember we're evaluating this downstream of the filter. So many times the microbes might be trapped by the filter, but because they're microscopic, they very well can get by the filter and onto these pads. And usually they're a very unique color, but typically a brown or an amber kind of color.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And I I only ask that because uh we definitely see systems that are not functioning well. And sometimes they're trying to problem solve, and everybody loves to blame microbes. Oh, it's gotta be microbes and the fuel and I want to point out that it's rare for it to show up at the milliport test.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, pretty, pretty rare. But but I gotta tell you, if you do your due diligence and keep your water bottoms to a minimum, because the actual microbes reside in the water phase and they feed at the interface and on the hydrocarbons and sulfures in the fuel. So if you keep the water bottom to a minimum by doing your proper QC, then you really won't have bug issues. It's when people allow that water to accumulate, and these are sulfur-reducing, sulfur-producing microorganisms. So they're feeding off the fuel, they're producing a sulfur waste byproduct. Sulfur and water, from your chemistry 101, you remember sulfur furic acid, and sulfuric acid in the bottom of these tanks is not good.
SPEAKER_03:It eats the tanks right up. It creates crevices and dimples and pitting, and it is very expensive and difficult to repair. It's also very expensive and difficult to get out of steel once it's the microbes have places to hide. It's really hard to clean a steel bottom once you get that pitting. We've absolutely been on teams that have replaced the bottoms of tanks because the microbial corrosion made it too expensive to repair that bottom. We had to just put a new bottom in the tank.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I've seen the same thing in actual aircraft where they have to scrap the airplane. It totals the airplane because there's cross-contamination in the wing roots and the uh fuselage, and the whole airplane gets totaled.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's hard to get out once it's there because it's very hard to get water out of your system, and then it's hard to get the microbes out. Like you could clean that whole system down to bare steel, put new fuel in, and the microbes are just in the crevices in the steel, ready to come back out as soon as some water shows up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we use a product called biobore, which is a boron product, which is a fuel phase biocide that that is used to kill these bugs. The drawback is that that fuel phase biocide remains in the fuel anywhere it goes downstream. So if you do those treatments, your customers have to be advised that this fuel product that you're selling them has been treated with a biocide.
SPEAKER_03:And it's really important for a sensitive equipment and especially things like uh electrical generation, you need to take into account what you're doing to the fuel before it goes into your generator. And same thing with marine vessels. I think some of the larger marine vessels have pretty sophisticated generators and engines. And same thing. If you're gonna, you know, if you've got a microbial problem, you need to be pretty upfront with people what you've done to the fuel. So you did mention due diligence, and we've talked a lot about doing all of these tests. And everybody who listens to this podcast knows how much I love record keeping and how critical record keeping is. Could you talk about training and documentation related to fuel quality and why it's so important, Walter, in your experience?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 40 years of doing this. If you're gonna ask someone to perform a task, you want to make sure that they're properly trained and have the proper tools, especially safety equipment, to do the job. And documentation is really the best defense. If you did something, write it down. If you didn't do something, don't write it down.
SPEAKER_03:So no, no, we say write it down if you didn't do it. You write it down one way or the other because they need to know.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:But in addition to documentation to meet regulatory requirements or standard requirements, right? Like ATA 103 has a whole bunch of documentation requirements. But there's a whole nother side to documentation. You did bring up briefly, and I did say I want to stay away from lawyers, but I do want to talk about lawsuits and fuel quality, because especially with aviation, when a plane goes down, the black box people show up and they start asking questions. Uh could you talk about? I know Walter, you've been involved in many investigations over the years. Do you want to talk a little bit about how documentation plays into that side of this?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it ties into training as well, because in the courtroom, in that witness stand, if asked a question about industry standards or these tests, and the answer comes back that they don't know. Ignorance is such a terrible defense. And in documentation, you've got to be able to prove you did it. So if I do these checks and I document that I did these, I can take that checklist into the courtroom that now is considered evidence. And I can produce it to show that I did these tasks and they were done properly. And here's my training record to show that I was trained to do the task properly. So it becomes integral to any defense, God forbid, should something bad happen.
SPEAKER_03:Walter, you're keeping people out of jail.
SPEAKER_00:That's so great. I'll tell you the other side, uh, the emotional side of it is you know, no, nobody wants to see anybody get hurt. And if they realize that their actions cause someone else to perish or be hurt, it's a terrible feeling. So it's so much better to do the right thing, document it, and be able to sleep at night knowing that that you did everything you could to prevent something bad from happening.
SPEAKER_03:And at a corporate level as well, you want to show that the training and the documentation occurred because a lot of times the reason something bad happened isn't known, and they're just ruling things out. And if you don't have good documentation, you may not have been responsible for it, but it's very difficult to show for sure that you're not responsible because you don't have the records showing, you know, it's just someone saying they did it, they don't have that long-standing written documentation. And our Western court system doesn't do well on verbal. The records are really important and the training records, too, which is another very common gap. You know, the guy gets hired, he's walked through it by his supervisor until the supervisor feels that he's good enough at it. But there's no on-the-job training checklist that said we covered this, we covered this, and we covered this. There's no reference back to the ASTM standard or the ATA standard. Like we work pretty hard with our clients to create a training program that includes some kind of on-the-job training, like documented checkoff that this person can do this thing independently, this person can do the white bucket test independently, you know, like all the pieces. So that when and if you get to this show us what you did situation, you've got all that stuff ready to go.
SPEAKER_00:And it's clear. Yeah, show us what you did and prove it. Yeah. You know, in any SMS safety management system, we have a policy that says, this is the what we're gonna do. We're gonna be safe. And then you have a procedure and says these are the steps we're gonna take in in performing these tasks to be safe. And then you have an audit function where we go out and look to see if that's what you're doing. You can change the procedure or you can change what you're doing, but they got a match.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And I definitely can attest to the fact that we have people using procedures that were written so long ago that they're like written for top-loading trucks, but they're all on bottom loading trucks now, right? But nobody went and updated the procedure. And they're signing people off on it because that's what you do. But you do have to make sure to update your procedures as your equipment changes. Same thing with like new fueling, like filtration system skids. They'll put a whole new filtration system in, it arrives, but they don't actually change their how-to-check their filter procedures, even if they've put in a whole new system.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's really terrible. And I I see it a lot.
SPEAKER_03:Well, we see it a lot because it's hard to do, Walter. I I I have a lot of empathy for environmental managers who are supposed to be in health and safety, HSE, like they're supposed to be making these programs effective and operating them. And I have a lot of empathy for the people who are doing a million things, and their primary job is to fuel aircraft safely or or run electrical generation safely or whatever they're doing. And this record keeping is tacked onto the back of it. It's hard to do. That's why we see so many gaps. But that's why we have this podcast to help people fill those gaps and hopefully make some part of their process better. You don't have to do it all at once. I think listeners to this program have heard me say this before. Everything is a process. Start with the most highest priority step, what makes the biggest impact, you can get to the rest later. It doesn't have to be everything all at once.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's eating the elephant. Yes. You've got to do it one little step at a time. And over time you'll get it all done. And it looks ominous, but if you don't have documented procedures and training records that support those, and God forbid something happens, it really looks bad. And you think, man, I should have taken the time to do that.
SPEAKER_03:So we've covered everything we need to do to make sure the fuel stays high quality. But I did want to touch on before we go, Walter, what do we do if the fuel fails those tests? Because, you know, I live in reality, as do you. Sometimes the fuel fails the test. So what do we do at that point?
SPEAKER_00:The key word here is stop. Because many times when bad things start happening, people start moving faster and more bad things happen. Yeah. So if there's a question about fuel quality, stop. Number one, isolate the fuel in question. Let's make sure that this doesn't get anywhere else before we figure this out.
SPEAKER_03:Number two, hold on. Before we go into number two, I have to say this. Mixing bad fuel with good fuel will not solve your problem. Dilution is not the solution. I just I would like to say that.
SPEAKER_00:Dilution is not the solution to pollution, right?
SPEAKER_03:Dilution is not the solution to fuel quality either. And I'll just say that for no reason whatsoever. Okay, go ahead, Walter. Number two.
SPEAKER_00:In working for a major oil, many times they had off-spec product that they said, well, we're gonna put some good product on top and make it all good. And it just makes a whole lot more bad.
SPEAKER_03:Remember, we're talking about one micron. Like it's very difficult to get your dilution to the level that one micron won't show up.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it the solid contamination is usually fixed readily easily, not by mixing other fuel, but I get your point.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and microbial contamination is definitely where we see this. They're trying to save this fuel that's been contaminated with microbes and mixing it, it just provides an all-expenses paid buffet for the microbes. I mean, you're just giving them more fuel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. In the case of microbial growth, the first thing to do is to get the water bottom off and remove any solids, typically by polishing the fuel. If you've got a treat with a biocide and don't want to notify customers downstream, we can run clay treaters in to take the biocide back out before we deliver to customers. But so there's other ways to do it. But to my number two point is notify the proper authorities. Call somebody, somebody who knows.
SPEAKER_03:And that's typically within your own company, and then that's gonna be like a client liaison kind of a thing, right? Like you got to let your supervisor know there's a problem, and then they're gonna take care of it on the sales and service side, which will isolate and treat the problem at your facility.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I I quite often get a call, and it usually starts out with, hey Walter, you're not gonna believe this. And then they tell me about this situation, you know. And and you know, we we want to be a resource for our company and for our customers, and when they call, we help walk them through what they should do now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but there's no fuel police that you need to call. Because I uh when you say notify the authorities, all of our guys are thinking about spill response too. But there's not really a fuel police. But as part of being a fuel provider, you definitely need to let people know some of our clients are end users, like I said, electrical generation. You probably don't need to notify anybody except within your company, but you're gonna need resources to fix the problem, and that's part of the notification is you're gonna have to isolate this fuel, but then you're gonna also have to get help to fix whatever caused that problem in the first place. It's not just gonna go away.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You want to get somebody in the know, kind of the next step after you notify everybody to investigate and really determine what the cause of the anomaly is. How did we get this problem? What went wrong? Did we have a filter burst? Are their hoses going bad? Did nobody receive the product properly? I mean, where did the problem come from? It may be in a case where we just recirculate the fuel to Remove particulates in water. And that's called fuel polishing, where we just turn the fuel over and filter and filter and filter to clean it up. As we do that, and certainly as we remove solids, we're going to see an increased differential pressure. And it may cause us to have to change filters during that process till we get the fuel correct.
SPEAKER_03:And that can work sometimes, but you need to do it conscientiously and you need to document it very well because you're going to want to show that I ran this through the filter 16 times or whatever you need to do. And then I still think notifying the end user or the delivery that that, you know, that this occurred is probably the right thing to do.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and yeah, you can get to the point where you're actually going to have to do some laboratory testing, sending some samples off. MCEP, microcep barometer, or water reaction test, it really tells us how well water separates from the fuel. So if we have some kind of surfactant, some kind of soap, some kind of detergent, this typically occurs from cross-contamination with diesel fuel that has water detergents in it or cleaning detergents, additives in the fuel, where all of a sudden the water's not separating out, it's staying in the fuel. It may be, you know, that we do an existing gums evaluation to see if there's any residual gums in the fuel or copper corrosion. Maybe we have a pH problem.
SPEAKER_03:Go back to gums. What is gums?
SPEAKER_00:So interesting. In Alaska, when we put up our snow machines for the summer, we come back next winter and we look in the fuel tank and we notice that there's a clear fluid on the top and there's all this gooey stuff on the bottom of the tank. What's happened over the summer is you've had a delamination of the fuel to resolve in gums and varnishes. So the gums is that gooey stuff in the bottom of the tank. The varnish is the fluid that's left from the fuel after it's come apart. We're looking for those gummy type substances in the fuel. Many times they can come from deterioration of elastomers or hoses, rubber components. Sometimes we see it from liners. It's something we measure when we put a new tank in service to see if there's any gums from the manufacturing process, greases and solvents or lubricants that are in the permeability of the steel when they built the tank. So we want to make sure we have a very low gums number, gooey stuff in the fuel. The next is copper strip corrosion. We're looking for kind of the pH. Is this caustic? Will this fuel corrode things downstream? And lastly, more for the airplane than anything, is Jeff Tot, J F T O T. It's the Jet Fuel Thermal Oxidation T. What does that do? It just makes sure that we don't have any products in the fuel that are going to cause coking and sooting when the fuel is burned.
SPEAKER_03:That was a really good overview of those tests, but those have to go to you have to take that sample and send it to a laboratory, correct? You can't do those.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, these are all laboratory evaluations. That is correct. I mean, walking through our process, if we know we've got a problem, we figure out stop the process, notify the proper folks. Let's figure out what the anomaly is. If it's something that's causing the fuel to be off spec, it may be something as simple as we got dirt in the fuel and we've got to run it through filtration enough to get it cleaned up, but it may be something that causes us to send a sample off to the lab to get evaluated.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. That makes a lot of sense. I know in Alaska the laboratory is located in Balbi's because of the Trans-Alaska pipeline, I would imagine. There are locations in other states. It's pretty common. Most laboratories can run these tests. But I'm glad you went through that because I think a lot of people panic when something goes wrong. And I think it's important to kind of just be prepared. Don't worry about it obsessively. But if something goes wrong, now you know what to do. There's steps, there's varying levels of severity going all the way up to figuring out what's wrong and then doing some testing to help you further understand what went wrong. So all of these tests you just talked about, Walter, they come from standards and fuel specifications and all these engineering aids that help designers and operators of transportation and storage infrastructure set up systems that work. I was hoping we could talk through some of the fuel specifications and maybe some of the facilities and fuel maintenance standards that you use on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_00:In aviation fuels, it's ASTM, American Society of Standard Testing Materials. D1655 is the test parameters for jet fuel, and ASTM D910 is the test parameters for aviation gasoline 100 low lead.
SPEAKER_03:And I can add the other side if you want. Diesel's ASTM D975, and then gasoline products. But in general, gasoline and unlead is under uh ASTM D4814, which is it's got a long name, but it's like gasoline type fuels for spark ignited engines or something really goofy like that. So for facilities and fuel maintenance, there's also some like API recommended practices. Do you want to talk about those as well?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, two we use most commonly are API RP, like you mentioned, for recommended practice, 1595. And that really addresses the design, construction, operation, maintenance, and inspection of pre-airfield storage terminals. So this is where the refuel is received before it gets to the airport. And API RP 1540. And this really guides us as to the design, construction, and even the operation and maintenance of the specific airport fueling facilities. So these are going to be the fuel farms at the airport.
SPEAKER_03:And those two API apply to tanks and aviation service. If you have an Avgas tank at your bulk fuel facility, 1595 applies. It's a pre-airfield storage terminal. But on top of all of that, if you have a facility with mixed fuels, API RP1525, it's bulk oil testing, handling, and storage guidelines. That applies to the whole facility. And then for your tanks that are in jet or app gas service, you also have the pre-airfield one, the RP1595. So I just want to make sure our listeners know that there's layers to this facility onion here. And then these API standards, they talk not only about how to design and construct, but there's also operations piece. And that's why I'm mentioning them here is because I want people to understand that a lot of our operations and maintenance and inspection requirements are coming from these recommended practices. It's not just something to refer to when you're designing and building a new storage tank farm, for example. It's something that you're going to have to refer back to for ops and maintenance as well.
SPEAKER_00:You know, Sheannon, you make a good point there that these become almost a framework for writing those manuals that seem such a challenging job because if you adopt these and customize them to your operation, 80% of your work is already done.
SPEAKER_03:And a lot of really smart engineers went into the making of these recommended practices. I mean, these are industry experts that get together and beat it to death, having been part of some of these committee meetings. I'm sure you have been too, Walter. But these recommended practices are a good place to start for your program. It's like an 80% lift.
SPEAKER_00:And do you know what an expert is? Tell me, Walter. What's an expert? An ex is a has been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if I want to be an expert by yourself. Yeah, you don't know who I want to be an expert. So the last piece of this puzzle for engineering standards, I do want to talk about operational standards. So there, especially the aviation industry, they have a very specific operational standard. We have a whole other podcast on it, which is ATA 103. But when you and I spoke before this podcast, Walter, there was a couple others that you mentioned that I want our listeners to know about too.
SPEAKER_00:You and I visited about API 1529, which actually talks to the hoses, the fueling hoses that are used, not only for fueling the aircraft, but transferring the fuel. You know, it's interesting because if you look at API 1529, it talks about soaking, flushing, and operations that have to be done before the hose is put into service. And when I tell people, well, you have to buy the new hose, you have to put it in, you have to fill it with fuel, and you have to let it soak eight hours, and then you have to discard that fuel and then flush and run 500 gallons through it prior to putting the hose in service, they look at me like I have three heads. And they just aren't aware that that ever had to be done. They put a new hose on and start fueling.
SPEAKER_03:A lot of people put the new hose on and start fueling, but for the reasons we talked about before, the inside of that hose could have all sorts of stuff on it from manufacturing, storage, transportation, and you you do have to flush it out. And so I'm really glad you brought that up because I think as an industry, we need to remember that that's something that needs to be done and make sure it's part of our operations and our standard practices. And then there's one more I want you to talk about related to what I like to call the millipore test, but is not actually called the millipore test. But that's what everybody calls it.
SPEAKER_00:Everybody calls it that. It's just interesting over time how that's developed. But ASTM 2276, the filter membrane test slash millipore. It actually is in ATA 103, and typically we do the downstream filter prior to delivery. And what I mean by that is you have two inlets to connect the millipore test kit to one is upstream and one is downstream. And what we really are interested in most is the downstream. The affluent going out of the filter, does it meet this D2276 standard of four in the chart, ABG, four or less wet, three or less dry. So A3, B3, G3, or less is a pass. If we fail, if we have a four wet or more, A6, A8, B7, whatever, then we actually have to test the upstream or the inlet side of the filter. So we're going to determine with this test is the filter the problem? Because if we have a passing score going into the filter and a failing score coming out, that tells us the filter is burst and putting contaminants in the fuel rather than taking them out. That's why we test downstream at the final filter before we make a delivery.
SPEAKER_03:I'm really glad you went through that because I'm not entirely sure sometimes that people understand what pass means for a milliport test. They just do it and they say, it's pretty much white, I'm good to go, and then it's pass. But I think it's a process.
SPEAKER_00:In teaching this, these classes all these years, I asked the question, how many people do the millipore test? And you know, half the class will raise their hands. And then I'll ask, okay, what's a pass and what's a fail? And nobody says anything. And I'll say, okay, let me ask again, who does millipore? Well, and I've said because we've shown them how to do the test, we don't tell them why we're doing the test, and we don't tell them what a pass and a fail is.
SPEAKER_03:No troubleshooting ability. Yeah. Yeah, agreed. Well, Walter, I have really enjoyed our conversation today. You're such an amazing and smart person. I'm so thankful that you came on our podcast to share that with our listeners. I did want to ask if you had any resources to share. And you mentioned there was an Excel sheet for filter differential correction. And you also provided us a schematic earlier that kind of shows all of the fuel system process and sort of all the transfer points and points where you would want to do fuel quality checks. So we'll include that with our show notes. Is there anything else that you would recommend our listeners if they want to learn more about fuel quality that would help them learn more?
SPEAKER_00:AT8, Aviation Trading Academy, my little company, is certainly a resource. We we certainly want to be available to you and your customers. Of course, AT8 103 itself really sets the standard for jet fuels. The Steel Tank Institute, SP001, has free webinars on water management.
SPEAKER_03:I do want to clarify for our listeners that Aviation Training Academy is the name of your company that performs trainings all over the United States, and they will come to your facility and do training there, which I think is a great training approach. The ATA 103 is Airline Transport Association 103, and it's a recommended practice from the airline industry. So you guys are being very clever with your naming, but I also want to make sure people understand when they look up ATA 103, that's this airline industry standard that we all know and love slash hate for record keeping and operations procedures. And then Aviation Training Academy is a group that exists to help you with those things. So I'll put the links to both in the show notes. And then do you have any parting words for our audience, Walter?
SPEAKER_00:I work with people at fuel airplanes all the time, and I'll I'll even include this as maybe an attachment. It's called the quality control creed. And it goes like this it's impossible to accurately measure the results of the safe and proper handling of aircraft fuel. No one can count the fires that never started, the engine failures that never take place, nor can anyone evaluate the lives that have been saved or plumb the depths of human misery that were spared. But the man or woman in charge of fuel quality can find satisfaction that he or she has worked wisely and well and that safety has been their first consideration.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, Walter, way to wrap it up. That is I don't think anyone's ever gonna top that.
SPEAKER_00:Not a dry eye in the place.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my goodness. Oh, thank you so much. Fuel quality is very complicated, and there are a lot of moving pieces to it, but I think this overview of the of the process will help people understand where they need to learn more, maybe find some gaps in their system. And each individual piece of this system is not super difficult. It's just that there are a lot of them. So I'm glad and I'm very thankful that you came to talk to us today about that and helped us understand it. Thank you so much, Walter.
SPEAKER_00:It's been my pleasure. I wish you and your customers well. And please call us if we can be resourced.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Thank you. Hi there. This is Shannon Olkers. And as the owner of Integrity Environmental, I wanted to take a minute here at the end of the podcast to make sure that you knew the following. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal or regulatory advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional regulatory or legal advice. And the views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host, that would be me, or integrity environmental. Thank you very much for listening. And if you do need professional regulatory advice, we'd be happy to help you as part of our consulting services.
