EP35: Kieran Kenlock - Football, Purpose & GoodVillains

What happens when a footballer who trained alongside Victor Moses, Wilfried Zaha and Sean Scannell doesn’t get the professional contract? For Kieran Kenlock, it became the beginning of something far more powerful.

In Episode 35 of Beyond the Athlete, Coach David sits down with writer, creative director and founder of Good Villains studio, Kieran Kenlock, a man who turned the pain of being released from Crystal Palace’s academy at 18 into a career telling the stories the world hasn’t heard yet.

They go deep on:

🎙️ Growing up and discovering the power of words when you couldn’t put two sentences together.

⚽ Being scouted for Crystal Palace at 13 and what it really takes to go professional.

💡 Finding creativity after football, from Nike Town London to top tier ad agencies.

🎬 Building Good Villains, balancing commercial work with authentic storytelling.

🏆 His film Chasing Shadows and why grassroots stories hit harder than highlight reels.

🤖 The future of creative storytelling, AI, and what the next generation gets right.

🔥 Why consistency always beats perfection

Kieran is the kind of creative who doesn’t just talk about culture, he builds it. From writing for Soccer Bible to working with Nike, FIFA, Jordan Brand and CAF, his journey is a masterclass in pivoting with purpose.

This one is for the athletes who didn’t make it, the creators building something from nothing, and anyone trying to find their lane beyond what the world told them they were.

🎙️ Beyond the Athlete is a platform built to amplify voices, celebrate grassroots culture and explore the life beyond sport.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_03 0:07

What's up, guys? Coach David here, your host of the Beyond Athlete Podcast. And today we have another very special guest. He's a friend, he's a brother. We've spoken quite a few times. First time actually sitting down or even just meeting up to have a conversation is on the podcast, which is amazing. This gentleman obviously is a writer, a creative in his own right, um working within the um intersection of sports culture. Um he's an artist as well. So when I say creative, I mean orphans creative. Um comedy is um building his creative studio, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Um what's your I'll I'll say it, I want to say it, but let me get you into the conversation as well. What's your um creative studio called? Um Good Villains. Good villains, good villains. Yeah, um, and yeah, so we're gonna have a conversation today today around sports, culture, um, his his upbringing, his story as well, and kind of tie those two together. Um, hope you guys enjoy it. Obviously, like I always say, don't forget to subscribe, um, don't forget to comment and ask questions and take notes from this episode. And before I even go into the conversation, I would like to introduce you all to Kieran Kenlock. What's up, man? How you doing, man?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Um I'm really, really, really privileged to be here, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Um, we made this happen in like less than 24 hours as well. I know, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Obviously, like um my brother uh hit me up the other day and was like, yo, do you know what you should go on Coach David's podcast? And I was like, Yeah, I'm down for that. I would I didn't expect you to hit me up so quickly, but oh 100%. You know, like you know, when the fire's burning, you gotta strike up. So um yeah, I'm really I'm really privileged to be here, really grateful to be here, bro. So great to have you too.

Early Creativity And First Writing Win

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Great to have you too. Um I'm gonna start off with why I usually start off with all my guests, the beginning. Young young Kieran. What were you doing during that time that's kind of led you or you feel that's led you to your creative journey now?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

It's so funny that you asked that, and I I probably don't even know where to begin because I feel like my creative journey started officially um after a life that I lived before I had now. Do you know what I mean? Um but I guess my first like introduction into creativity would have been when I was really young. Um and the wildest thing, I sold this story the other day. The wildest thing about what I do now, it wasn't actually the thing that I was good at when I was younger. So I'm a writer by trade, I work in the creative industry, um, I tell stories, I'm a talk storyteller. But when I was really, really young, I couldn't put two sentences together. My mum sent me a um uh like my school report from back in the day, and on the English part, it was like Kira needs to work on sentence structure and understand what words mean and stuff like that. And I was like, wow, it's it's it's it's come a long way. It's quite ironic to be fair. But um the story I was gonna tell was the first time that everything came together. I think I might have been about maybe nine, eight or nine, and I got set an English English uh essay to write creative writing over the over the weekend. And me, I'm a procrastinator, I've always been a procrastinator when I was little, and even to this day, and um I was wait waited until Sunday to do the work, and my mum's like, What is in the room? Describe what you see, what can you touch, what can you feel? And I went upstairs and I started writing this story, and uh I think like the first line was like once upon a time in Alabama, don't ask me why there was nothing in sight, only a tumbleweed rolled across the ground across across the road. And I went on to write this story about like this town with a cowboy, and can't remember how it finished, but I handed it in, and I think like later on in that week, after obviously the books had been marked and whatever, and the teacher was handing out all of the books, and she never gave back mine. And she stood in front of the classroom and she was basically like guys, I want to read you like an exceptional story, and that was the first moment for me where it was like, Oh wow, like I might have something here. Um but then I I would say like storytelling never really came into my life as often because of the route that I chose after or well yeah, after secondary school, I'd say um there were there were there were some moments, I guess, like GCSE drama and doing drama at school and like English lit um or English English lessons to be fair. I've got a friend who always reminds me about again a story to do with homework that I didn't do one time, came into school, and we had to write a poem. And uh part of the work was that you had to like read the poem out to everybody else uh in the classroom, and it was the first period, I didn't have time to write it, so I was like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna improvise. And um I went into that classroom and I I like improvised this this piece called Don't You Hate It, and it was basically all the things that I hated doing when like coming to school, waking up, going into the the the fridge, and then not being any milk to go with your cereal, and I just dramatised the whole thing, and um yeah, it it literally like it worked, and I got an A and whatever whatever came from that I got it, but it was more just like being able to yeah, like touch people with the way that I I I use the words, in it so that was like my first interaction with like storytelling and um believing that I had something within me to do it, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gymnastics Then Crystal Palace Academy

SPEAKER_03 6:23

To be honest with you, just from you saying that I've already got like a few ideas that I want to try out after this as well. Oh man, for storytelling. So that's quite good. I like I like the fact that your mum actually showed you to do that and you kind of like just ran with it, yeah. Because yeah, even when you said it to me, it sounds so practical that it's something that anyone can kind of pick up as well, which is quite cool, right? Um, so what's your relationship with sports then? Because I know obviously this is me based off research, based on me following you for a while. Yeah, um, I know that you are connected to sports even now with quite a few people that you know as well, um, in that space. Um, so what's your connection always been to sport? I know your brothers play football as well. I don't know if he used to play football as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yeah, man. Um like I come from a sporting like family, when I say family, just like our my immediate family. My brothers, all my brothers play football, but I'm the oldest of four, so I had to kind of set pace. Um funnily enough, the first sport that I actually like took to and enjoyed was gymnastics.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Um I was a gymnast for about like four years, five years throughout primary school, up until like year ten. Not year ten, until I was about ten years old. And um but then like my main sport that I played and what I feel like everybody came to know me as was football, you know. Um I played football, I started quite late in the grand scheme of like when young people started to play football, you know. Um, and I remember the first time that I saw people playing, I was like, oh dude, that that looks fun, you know. Um but so I I started playing football when I was about yeah, 11, and I didn't really play for a team until I was 12. But by the time I was 13, I got scouted for Crystal Palace.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Um, and then I played through their academy system from 13, 14, 15, 16, got given a um scholarship, um, played there. So full-time training, uh, the whole institution and the whole like rigmarole of becoming a footballer started to become real. Um and yeah, I was part of their youth team, played with some amazing talented players uh across the like across the years that I was there, was in the same youth team as like Victor Moses, Sean Scannel, uh Wilfred Zar, Nathaniel Klein, Johnny Williams played as well, and there's a loads more that I could mention. Um, Kieran Jalali, Hakeem Dalekan, uh James Comley, Nathaniel Pinney, like the list goes on. We had a really, really good side, you know. And um, yeah, we so yeah, that that's my relationship with sport. Like I played football for a very, very long time, it became an identity for me, and um yeah, I learned a lot, you know. I learned a lot whilst I was there, um, and I carry a lot of the lessons that I learned from that uh time into the things that I do today. Do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 9:31

And and obviously going into that, because that was gonna be my next question as well. Have you how how have you kind of like seamlessly kind of joined both worlds together?

NikeTown Exposure To Creative Careers

Side Hustles To Agency Breakthrough

SPEAKER_00 9:45

I mean, it I wouldn't say that it's been a seamless journey, but I would say that like one naturally feeds the other, um, and there's loads of different ways that I can potentially take it to kind of explain or articulate how that is, but I can probably just go from I guess being released from Palace when I was 18 and going to university, I went to Loughborough University, and um at the time I wasn't really enjoying the the space I was in, yeah, because uh as if you go back to and listen to the names that I used to play football with, some of it went on to be really successful, and like going from that space of being in that environment where I'm training every day, to then having to go into like full-time education and be up for lectures at nine o'clock, I was like so you didn't play any sports I love, bro, because obviously it's a sports I did, yeah, I did. But like I'll be honest with you, I never really took it as serious as when I was playing at that level, and also like I feel like when you when you come out of that environment of just like competitive football or competitive, like being a competitive athlete and training at that level, like you you really have to want it, you know what I mean. But I I was I was really disheartened by not getting a professional contract, and then obviously there were some things that happened during that summer when I was chasing to get another contract, but it kind of just left a bit of taste in my in my mouth. I I fell out of love with football man, and I was just like, you know what? I'm just gonna enjoy the experience of being at university, probably a little bit too much, to be honest with you, my brother. But um, yeah, I was a little bit like I say this, um, and I'm like, sorry, I I say that, and and I was a little bit depressed to be honest with you in my first first two years, but I didn't really know that I was, you know what I'm saying. And um, that's when I found words again. You know what I mean? Like I came from an environment where you don't necessarily talk about the things that are bothering you. You have to walk around with this bravado of um like toughness, and you kind of like you're in a hyper masculine environment, everybody's like pitted against each other, even though you're teammates. We all know that we're fighting for this contract, and any step outside of the norm will make you an outcast or someone that they can pick on, or someone that anybody can pick on, you know what I'm saying? So, like you come out of that space, and you don't know how to um like process your emotions, you don't know what you're actually going through. And for me, without knowing, the words were like therapy for me, and it's so I would talk about how I was feeling at the time. Um, I got introduced to a guy uh called Ash who was making music and he helped me like kind of make sense of just like going to a studio recording a song, um putting down emotions through words, and that would really help me get through the time when I was there. Um naturally, whilst you're you're a student, you don't really make much money, yeah. So um I had to find a job, and my first job was actually in London, so I would travel every weekend from Loughborough to London to work at Nike Town London at the time, and um that was a I think that was like a a real eye-opener into the world that I currently am in now. You know what I mean? Um I had the opportunity to meet people from all over London who were hella talented, that had loads of different sorts of visions and ambitions, and that kind of affected me in a way where I was now being um introduced to people that had a world outside of football, even though like we are now just like brought together by the swoosh by Nike. And um my time there is what kind of got me into understanding that there was like another world outside of um like actually playing sport, do you know what I'm saying? So I used to work on the customer service desk, which was probably the best job in the in the in the building. Shout out to all the people that used to work at Nike Turn London, man. But there was a lot of people that would come in and get their discount from us on that desk, and they would work um for agencies, creative agencies, that I didn't know existed, I didn't know who they were. All I had was a booklet with names, their job title, and how much discount they were getting. So there were people coming in from Wider than Kennedy or AKQA, and they had like job titles for like Yeah, it really was dope, bro. It really was dope, but they had like job titles that was like uh executive producer, project manager, creative director, um, strategist, this and that, and like I'm I'd never heard of those terms in my life before, but the curiosity in me was okay, how do you how do I get into the positions that they're in? Because they'd come in wearing the flyest arms, bro, and they were getting 40%, 30% off. I don't know if I should be saying that, but it's whatever. They were getting discount, and then and um and I was I I would question them. I would literally just be like, yo, like, what do you do? You do you work for Nike and um they would they would tell me like what they would do. I would I would search their their job titles, I would search their companies, and I'd be like, I really want to work for these people, I want to work uh in this space. I didn't even know what the creative industry was, to be honest. Later on, I found out that they were the people that were um responsible for the adverts and the marketing behind all of the great stories that I would have seen. So even to go back to your original question, like what was my journey into or my first interaction with creativity? It would have been adverts. It would have been like your your your Nike Scorpion advert. It would have been the Nike um 98 World Cup um advert with the Brazil in the air with Brazil team in the airport, it would have been uh R9 when he first had the the the Mercurials, do you know what I mean? Like those those images like are seared into my brain, but I thought it was just Nike that made those things. I didn't know there was a whole team and a whole production and a whole different organism away from what I knew football to be that worked in those spaces. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, like um I I worked at Nike for a long time, maybe well, long time when I say long time in the grand scheme of things, it was like three or four years, but um yeah, I kept on asking people how to get into that space, and um naturally you don't just make a move from retail into corporate, um, and I didn't necessarily get the help that I needed to make that progression, which is normal, yeah. And I got really frustrated, bro. I got when I say I got frustrated, I got really frustrated to the point where I left, like I left the company, and I was like, you know what? Like if I'm going to make or uh if I'm gonna be able to go into those those spaces, I've got to think laterally, I've got to do something that's completely a little bit different. Yeah, um so I'll I went into like funnily enough, I worked for the council for a little bit for like three months, and during that time, I was like I had a radio show um in North West London. I had um this this opportunity to write um boot reviews for Soccer Bible through a contact that I met working at Nike Town London because I pestered him. Like I was like, bro, like you always have these dope boots on your Instagram, how do you do it? And then when he moved away from his job and set up his own company, he introduced me to the guy that like ran Soccer Bible, and um yeah, they gave me a trial to write a boot review, sent me a few boots, I tried them. This is when I still playing, and um yeah, they loved it, they they went out on their magazine and stuff like that. So I was doing that, I was also yeah, I had the radio show, I was doing online content, and um I was playing part-time, working part-time at Nike, so I was juggling a lot of things, you know. And um whilst I was at the council one day, this guy calls me and he's like, Yo, we've got a um job role that comes up because he'd seen my profile on LinkedIn, and he said it was for a company called RGA, and I'd never heard of RGA, I didn't know what it was, but he told me it was a digital agency, still didn't really know the like context or like yeah, like had no idea. And then um they asked me to come in for a interview, which obviously I went to, and when I got there, it was like this glass building. I was like, This is mad, bruv. Like, what's going on here? And um I met the the guys that were do taking the interview, and they um put me in a room similar to this, a little bit smaller, and they were basically like, Okay, so we've got a brief and we want to see how you'd approach this brief. And the brief was like about this football team who were like trying to it's it was based on a football team where young players had are trying to get into academy academies again. I was like, This is my life, bro. You know what I mean? And it turns out like the job was for the Nike Academy, and I was like, bruh, this is this is my job, like you know when you go somewhere and you're like this is destined, I sat in there and I was like, I better get this job because I'm the perfect person for this job. Yeah, so um, yeah, that was my that was how I came into the world of creativity, man, free sport. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? That's dope. I spoke for a little while there. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

No, no, that was good, that was good because a lot of stuff you said, yeah, and thank you for sharing as well, but a lot of stuff you said was um pretty much relevant to me. So when you talk about the advertising side, um I can't remember what year, but um when I went to uni initially, um I never actually finished, but I wanted to study advertising. All right. Um, advertising was always my thing. I think even now, like a lot of my ideas, like production ideas, the way I edit and stuff like that, it's based around just me loving advertising. Yeah. Um and I did one thing. I wrote um this time I didn't know how to approach people, but I did the same thing that you did, like speak to people for another day, working what they do and stuff like that. But I wrote to maybe about 50 or 60 agencies in the in London. Oh man. Yeah. And there was only one that got back to me, but then the one that got back to me was the boutique one. So I wasn't really interested, but a lot of other ones never got back to me. I even went there with like an envelope and put in why I think I could work here. That's dope and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

You only need one though. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, you only need one.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah, yeah. So, but then fast forward later on on the train, randomly, I ended up meeting um is it Riz Hammond? Riz Ahmed. Yeah, AKQA. Oh, Riz Hammond, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

I thought he said Riz Ahmed, so not the actor.

Why Football Dropped Him At 18

SPEAKER_03 21:41

No, no, no. It's I think that's his name, yeah. Um AKQA founder. Wow. Um, just on the train on Centraline, and we just got talking. Ended up coming to see him. Um he gave me two of his books or one of his books, um, read it. It was pretty cool. Um, I know after that we'd never really spoke again, it was quite busy. Um To be honest with you, now would be a good time because I can just get him on the podcast anyway. Yeah, man. Definitely reach out to. But that world has always been something that I've always really enjoyed. Um, and I think that's why when I started Bas for Nation and obviously started doing all the sports stuff, it allowed me to kind of like work with brands and really reach out to brands. Even though I don't w work with a lot of brands now, but I'm contacting them because I know eventually years time, two years time, something will come out of it. 100%. But a lot of the stuff that I learned has been through just the way I've approached sports as well. So even things like working as a team, being a good decision maker, being a leader, um thinking community, um, always creating like in the in the midst of pressure, all the sort of things has come from sports, and it's interesting that you mentioned that obviously how it's kind of tied in as well. Um, and obviously, you finding out about Wyden Kennedy one listen, I've I've done mad research on this people, I've watched all the documentaries, how they started, everything. Um, and it's quite interesting. Um, there is one question I wanted to ask though, um, because I know a lot of young guys and girls will watch this and they'll be like, Why did you um what what is it that you think you missed that didn't get you further at the age of 18 in football that they that Chris Palace had to drop you?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Wow man, that's a real um that's a real real question. And I don't think I would have been able to uh answer it with the maturity that I have now if you had asked me maybe four or five years ago. Do you know what I mean? Um I think I carried it for a very long time that it was like someone else's fault. Do you know what I mean? I mean there were like moments where you could potentially look at it and be like, oh no, but you you probably did deserve, not deserve, you played well enough to like warrant something, or at least to have a look. And at the time, Palace were going through a lot of like different um different structural problems, financial problems. We had like two different managers in the diff in like space of maybe three or four months or whatever. But looking back now, I don't think I understood what it meant to be a professional. Do you know what I mean? Like when I look at professional athletes now, when I look at what it takes to become a professional athlete, the best of the best, there's there's a lot more sacrifice than you think you can actually give them. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's not just about showing up and doing the work, it's about doing the extra m the extra work. Yeah, yeah it's about taking the professional steps in order for you to become a professional player. And I think a lot of what I was doing or the way that I saw the game at the time and the pathway towards the the the first team, I didn't actually know what it meant to be professional. Like when you're an athlete, your body is your is literally your um what can I say? It's your I don't want to say it all, but you know what I mean, but it is it's the it's the thing that you have to look after the most. Your your your the things you eat, the way that you prepare, the way that you recover, the way that you um you feel like are you obsessed with the game? Like I loved football, bro, but like what was I going to go and watch like tapes and tapes of of players? Am I gonna go and study players that play in my position? Am I gonna go and look deeper into how players play in different formations? How did this right back look at um the options that were in front of him when they were playing? So like with with maturity now looking back, I probably like and it's not because I didn't try hard enough, I just didn't potentially have the tools in order to help me get through those those those moments, I'd say. Okay, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Okay, it's good to know. Because I always think uh a lot of the young people, a lot of young athletes, should I say, they always blame someone else for something, but yeah, sometimes obviously also someone else is sometimes, sometimes it's also good to do a self-reflection as well, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's something that that age we don't ever do.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

It took me a long time to get there, my brother. Like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here in front and say that I didn't blame people for the reason for me not getting a a professional contract, and I'm sure there's a lot of people that are in my corner that might even say that about the situation. Do you know what I'm saying? But in hindsight, if I look back and ha and look at how I I prepared for things or the way that I like also like took on information or even disseminated information or how I reacted to certain things within a game, then I can find the reasons. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting.

Storytelling For Unheard Communities

SPEAKER_03 27:26

That's very interesting. Um, my last question is around um I want to kind of like dive into the storytelling side of things. Okay. Um, because for me, storytelling's always been quite a big thing for me. Like um, as much as I do the podcast, I obviously I run the Baseball Nation, which is the basketball community, which is now becoming it's almost like a media hub for sports as well. Amazing, bro. Um, and then Nation Sports Association, which is a multi-sports uh sports association, um, where initially we didn't know what we were gonna do with it, but now it's like it's it's a lot more clear that we just really build a whole ecosystem, grassroots ecosystem, and really make noise with that, like not just in the UK, but eventually globally as well. And not really okay, not trying to look at oh, let's be in the limelight, but really and truly let's make a difference in grassroots um and bring them under our umbrella, and all of us just work together and create like a massive ecosystem of sports, basically. So, but then storytelling is such a big part of it because amongst all those things, I I've always wanted to do a lot of like documentaries, um short films. I'm a big anime lover. I already have like a seven-episode script ready for an anime. Yeah, I want to do ten episodes, I've got three more to do that I actually want to do. Um sport related, sport related, yeah. Okay, yeah, okay. Um big anime narrative, all those things, that's me.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Um, so I wanted to kind of like bring the things that I love into sports, basically, because they all still apply. Like, and this is not me being geeky, but like when you watch Naruto on the dog story, um, someone that no one believed in, but he just ended up building himself and still all he was thinking about was how do I help my community, how do I help the people around me, regardless if they love me or not, basically. So, same way in sports as an athlete, how do you have that same mindset where you may be hated like a Michael Jordan, quote unquote, but you're still leading in the sense that you make sure that everyone else around you wins? If people don't want to stick around, they don't stick around, basically, and just kind of bring that mindset into that space. So, in terms of like storytelling, yeah, um, how important it is, how important how important is it for you to for amplifying voices and communities um that don't really get the spotlight, and how can sports also be a catalyst for that?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Okay, um, I think it number one is really important. Um for me when it comes to storytelling or the way that I try to tell stories is always from a viewpoint of the stories that have never been told before, or the voice of people that don't have the words to articulate the feelings that they have. So when I think about that question in particular, um it it goes back to a film that I helped bring together, I wrote and voiced called Chasing Shadows, which is about my experience as a young footballer through the academy system. But in releasing that, you start to see what it does for other people and how important it was to share a story that people can resonate with. I think the reason why you want to tell stories for people and communities that don't necessarily have a voice is because those are ones that are gonna connect and run deeper because they come from truth. Communities always come towards what's authentic and what's true. And for me, like whenever I'm trying to tell a story or share um parts of whatever I'm trying to put out or create, it always has to come from a place of feeling and a place of honesty. Um and that's how that's how good stories last forever. Do you know what I'm saying? There's always some point, some point of truth that that that exists in those. Um yeah, and you know, like it's one thing for going to your community perspective, it's it's one thing brands doing stuff for communities, but like you can't just do the whole like what's the when you like you can't just signpost for a for a for a community. You you you can't just like oh do you know what I'm gonna build this community center but do nothing for the community, or I'm gonna put up this billboard in the community, but not actually work with the community to help the community grow. And um, I think like sharing stories from a perspective of the unheard and actually working with those people is really important to to telling the stories that that are important, you know.

A Surprise Brother Walks In

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's so key. Um, because how can I put this now? A lot of people always always do forget about um this one that's like me.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

It's your brother or now. Is it my brother? Yeah, yeah. You're joking. Oh no. By the way, you can come into the camera and see. This is crazy. This is crazy. Oh my god. Oh man, man. What are you saying, bro?

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah, man. What do you mean? Yeah, there's no broad. Oh man, I'm gassed, you know. Yeah, it's like looking in the mirror. I know, I know. I know, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

You can't deny this.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Twinning, man. Oh man, that is a moment. Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

You can sit anywhere here as well, though.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

That was uh that's a move my bag, just put it to the side there. Cool, cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

My favourite person in the world, you know. Oh god, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

I wanted to do it like this because I like podcasts to be very natural. Who can it? Like, not not like so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

I even forgot to be like, yo, hours I'm on the way.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Um, just going back to the conversation, yeah. Yeah, so obviously for myself, like community has always been key, and giving voices to those that don't have it has always been quite important because I I was like I was the same, I'm being in the same space where I always say this all the time, I was always the last person to get picked on the basketball team or anything to do with sports. I was always the um person that maybe sometimes like people may not pick for certain things. So I said, you know what, like I'm just gonna like create my own space and give create a platform for those that don't really get that as well to be able to use that platform to amplify their own voices as well. So that's why I always say like even like with the podcast with Basford Nation, like it's not my platform, it's the platform for the community to use. So when it comes to like now, I need to I want to start doing women's basketball sessions and build that into something else. It doesn't have to be me that's doing it. There's there's women in the community that been wanting to do that, but they just don't have the resources or the platform or the team around them. So now we can both collab. So it's always a collaboration with the community to actually create things as well. Um, even with the magazine that I'm currently doing now, W Sports, which is hopefully launching November this year for the first edition. Congrats. Um, it's all about amplifying voices that we don't hear about. Some of those voices are popular voices as well, we just don't maybe hear them so much as well. So it's really amplifying those as well.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Do you know, like on that point as well, I do feel like the stories that we necess we we hear within the media is always probably like the the the best of the best. So like you hear you hear about like the athletes that go all the way through. Yeah, but they're really like the 0.012%, yeah, especially if you're look talking about a sport like football, right? But really and truly, there's so many more stories from those that don't necessarily make it that far, yeah. And those stories are probably way more universal to the wider world and the wider public. Yes, obviously, you can have aspirational stories for the people that are on the other side of that. But I feel like for stories to really resonate sometimes, you gotta go down to the grassroots, you gotta go all and work your way through it to understand, like, okay, this is someone that's just like me. Yes, they might have had a dream or a goal or an aspiration to go and like make something for themselves in a particular sport or a particular field, but the most interesting thing sometimes is understanding how people pivot. Yeah, you know what I mean, and like not many people get to hear that story because they think that the one the one way is the only way. When in actual fact there's millions of ways in which you can be successful and go and like make something of yourself. Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Like I have these two young guys, um started up well, they were they were they had a football agency managing young young football players, but they ran into a lot of like like just stuff that would just happen to them that would that blindsided them, maybe like another experienced agent mine kind of like blocked them from something or blindside them with an athlete, and it was kind of like frustrating for them. But rather than them saying, Okay, cool, I'm just gonna give up this thing and just like work and stuff like that, what they did is that they actually, like you said, made a pivot and said, you know what, let's step away from the football agency side, but now let's really work within the young football players, like create a platform for them to showcase their talent and kind of build a community around that, kind of build visibility around that, kind of create a new narrative to what they've been doing. And then now you see them, they've got this platform, the talent hunter. They've got like 12k plus followers within a short period of time compared to what when they were doing before. A lot of their a lot of teams are contacting them. You have Crystal Palace that contacting them recently to play an under-14 game against them. Yeah, day one to know. Crazy. Their goalkeeper now obviously is now getting trials with Crystal Palace. So they're creating those opportunities now. They're not really saying, okay, cool, I want I'm going in to make money right now. All that stuff will happen, but the fact that they're helping young people will pay them off. Anything that is to do with young people and job creation will always be profitable. It may not be straight away, but later on, 100%. But not thinking about that, but you're just really making sure that those guys are good basically because you've they've been through the system before already.

Brand Narratives Built On Human Truth

SPEAKER_00 38:45

I think, yeah, and I think like if you you start anything with good intention, like success comes from it. Yeah, all it takes is like consistency. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And them that those guys having uh an experience of loss and grief, like call it what it is, of like losing out on those those things, they're able to now like think about okay, what did I need in those moments in order to make myself if I was in that position again, yeah, be successful. And that's why the thing that they're doing is being able to like 12,000 followers off 12,000 people, do you know what I mean? Like that's that's a lot of like people and and and and lives that they're helping and supporting, do you know what I mean? And it that doesn't come without loss or lessons, do you know what I'm saying? So that's really dope, man. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Okay, my next question is around um culture, creativity. Um what have you learned about building narratives that connect with both both communities, especially a lot of big brands? Obviously, you spoke about Nike and Nike Nike Academy. Yeah, like what sort of um what have you learned around building those narratives, um working with those two sort of sides basically over the years?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Over the years, what have I learned about building narratives? I'd say like the the most impactful narratives are ones that have a human truth attached to it, and ones that people can see themselves in. All you have to do is look at some of the like and like even if it is um sport and advertising, the ones that perform the best are the ones that have like a a a human truth that runs runs through it. But even if you think about like your favorite song, your favorite artist, your favourite film, your favorite, even your favourite piece of short content, right? The reason why it connects with it while you connect with it is because there's something that in that that you see in yourself, or there's something in that that is aspirational to yourself or inspiring to yourself to yourself, you know. And I think as I've built out stories and wrote narratives and films and helped people bring campaigns to life, or helped brands bring campaigns to life. The one thing that I try to do is just like try to get to the feels of it, try to get to the human emotion. Like I really do build stories from an emotional edge, which was why sometimes some of my stories feel like there's a little bit of pain in them, or like something that just comes from my core. Like, I try to allow myself to um yeah, tell stories from a position of like, okay, how do I feel about this? What would I say if I was trying to articulate um, for instance, there's a film that I wrote with a friend of mine called uh The Therapist, and it's about a young boy who goes to a barber shop about a situation that he's having with within his life, and the therapist kind of allows him to see the the problem that he has is different because he's got another perspective on it. And I think the human truth in that was that men find it hard to talk about their emotions, and the one place in which we tend to do that is in a barber shop, so then it's like you've got a playground to play with, or like a at least uh a scene, pardon the pun to play with, and then just like work around that story. Like, how does that story play out in that space? And I think, bro, it's honestly just about like being true to whatever you're trying to say. Um my favorite artists, my brother's favourite artists are people that stick to realness, do you know what I mean? And they talk from a place of knowing, they take talk from a place of understanding, and they're able to articulate it in a way that you can feel, you know what I mean? And like I'm one of those people I love to like um I love to like pull from experience and then pull in a little bit of like what I've seen from whatever I'm working with, and just see how those two worlds can collide together. Um like I've worked with you mentioned Nike, but I've worked with like FIFA, I've worked with um CAF, you know, like Central African Federation for Football, um Jordan Brand, um uh Facebook meta now. But like I no matter what it is, there's always like a truth that connects all of those things, pieces of work that then I can just like okay, how do I move this story along?

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Yeah, amazing, amazing. I do know that you guys listen to I know um your brother listens to that those type of artists as well. Yeah, yeah. That's why I put him on to Larry June.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. You know what's so funny? When he was answering that question, yeah, yeah, uh in my mind I was like, he's probably thinking that's the kind of music that my brother would listen to.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

No, but didn't I see I I think I saw you at the concert, innit? Yeah, you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

There's quite a few people I sound like, oh wow, like use into Larry Jr.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

He's like, Yeah, so you're into like the underground artists that are big, but nobody knows them. Literally, as you said that, I was like, Yeah, he's like, that's the type of music that can't really exist. Yeah, literally, literally, literally.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

I'm a big Larry Jr. fan too. Yeah, same, same, same. Same. Um it's a shame that he's not performing in the well, he is performing in the UK, but Manchester, I think. Yeah, yeah, but not.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

I've seen them, I've seen them, and like um I mean he puts out so many so much music, bro. Yeah, yeah. Like you ain't gonna miss like a a concert where he's because you know what, he's got so much music to like perform. You don't necessarily get it's true, all of the all of the tracks, yeah. Which I'm saying, but nah, he's he's a he's a cool cat.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

He's a hard worker as well, because a lot of the visual visual uh visuals that he brings out with his music, like I'm thinking like when are you doing this? How are you doing it? That's the whole consistency thing.

Good Villains And The Money Balance

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like you go back through his he's got to the point in his life or in his career where if you meet him now, you've got years of content that you can go back, and that just shows you like the consistency is the thing that will push you further than potentially someone with a bit of talent, I mean hard work, consistency. I know those feel like cliches, but it's the truth. Do you know what I mean? Because like you don't know when someone's gonna pick you up, but if you don't start, you might never get the opportunity that someone that has been doing their thing for a little while. Do you know what I'm saying? So yeah, yeah, no, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Um I want to now kind of dive into obviously the fact that you run your own studio, good ones, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um if you can give us some insights on obviously running your studio, yeah, um balancing because I know you will get we get a lot of work, but how do you balance sort of like creative artistic vision work compared to like commercial work as well?

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yeah, man. Um and I should say like um Good Villains came at a point where um it was almost like a means because I had nothing. I mean, I got made redundant in 2023 from Apple.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

So you made to your natural state of being a creator, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

You know, and I think I mean we haven't really touched on like my career as such, but like um throughout my whole career in the advertising and creative industry, it was always like, What do you want to be? Do you want to be a strategist or do you want to be a creative? And I was always thinking that there's there's a possibility for both of these things, yeah, 100%. But whilst I'm also having these conversations of like corporate world and doing all of the campaign work and advertising and marketing, I was outside like okay, how do I have a podcast? How do I put out music? How do I make films? So I'm all already split, which is why goodvillains. Um, so I was like, okay, cool. I'm gonna set up this company, and it's gonna be everything that I love to do, and whatever a brand comes and asks me for, I'll just say yes and see if I can figure it out. I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm not gonna sit here bullface lie and say like it's been easy, bro. Like running a business is hard. Do you know what I mean? Um, making sure that you've got money coming in to um pay your mortgage and like to live and to eat, those are hard things, man. And it takes a lot out of you, do you know what I mean? But to answer your question about like um the pursuit of creative endeavors and also the corporate world, it's a juggling act because ultimately you need to earn money in order to live, but then also the creative, like creative in me and wanting to produce and to create whatever it is I'm creating is my lifeblood. That's the thing that keeps me going, but I can't do that without money, so you gotta like figure out okay, cool. If I do this job for two, three months, then I've got enough to sort myself out, like look after whatever I need to look after, and then this money can get recycled into a creative project, so to speak. Do you know what I mean? And it really is a balancing act of okay, what what what's the trade-off? Like, where where is it? Where can you then say, okay, this is the one thing that I'm gonna be doing, and now that is like um say, for instance, like I know I never have to really go and work for another brand or something like that. Do you know what I mean? And it's time, like right now, time is money, right? And the less time that you have to work on your business, the harder it is for your business to grow. But the time that I have to use to earn money to grow the business has to be within like situated within um agencies or within brands and doing brand work for them. Yeah. So then there's uh there's a big trade-off of the like what time I get to actually do for myself versus the time that I put in for other people. But it's it's the game you have to play in order not in order, but um before you can actually start putting realistic time into the worlds in which you want to create and the worlds you want to build, the stories you want to tell. I've got loads of ideas, bro. But like obviously to do those things it's not cheap. Of course, yeah. I'm saying, yeah.

Future Storytelling And AI Limits

SPEAKER_03 49:38

Where do you where do you see the next where do you see what where do you see the future of um creative storytelling, especially within sports, culture, community? Um, where do you see it, what do you see it becoming in the future as well, especially for the next gen that maybe want to jump into that space?

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Do you know what? Yeah, and this is I feel like I wish I knew when I was younger, and it might change shape already, but a lot of the next generation already know what they're doing, they're already creating, they're already making, like you know what I mean, they're already building their own brands with intentionally or unintentionally. They're they're wizards at at on their phones, they know how to make something uh impactful in a very short space of time. The way that they tell stories is not the conventional way of telling stories, and I think like we're gonna shift into a world where stories literary stories are everywhere, and to to coin a old IG campaign line, like but the youngsters now I would just say they have to youngsters. That sounds so old, bro. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

There's still youngsters, but they're younger than us, in it.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Jesus, I bro, I'm an uncle now, man. Um, no, but what I would say is that like there but we're already in the future, man. Yeah, like we are we are literally in the future right now, but it I would say is consistency. Like you just have that is the one thing. If you start, you just have to keep going. Yeah, and I feel like it's not about getting disheartened, it's not about watching other people, it's about like sticking to your own like vision, plan, desire, fire in your in your in your belly type thing, and just go, this is the thing that I want to do and keep moving. I think we'll probably start getting into because what I would say is actually like stories at the moment, there's like everyone's got a platform in it, and everybody wants to talk and everybody wants to say something, and the ones that are gonna be able to cut through are the ones that like resonate. So it's like where's if there's a human truth to it, if there's um like some sort of humour, if there's something that like resonates with people, those are the stories that are gonna continue to grow, and like I feel like the the the the the next generation of storytellers are really gonna start digging into like who we are as people as well, like just coming at it from like a holistic like like black community as well, like there's not a lot of stories from our community that tell our stories properly, and um even if you look into the world of like TV in the UK and stuff like that, and even internationally, like our representation isn't necessarily there, and I feel like what you're seeing now is a proliferation of young, talented black filmmakers, creators, artists, all of those people that are like pushing the narrative forward, claiming back their narratives, and telling the stories that they want to be told, and I think that's the pathway and where we should be going and where I think we are heading at the moment. Um, so yeah, that's what I think the future of storytelling is gonna look like on from uh uh a lens of like just being from the community and stuff like that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

A AI is playing a big part in it as well. I did go to an event where um it was really fun to be. Talk to me about AI yeah, for filmmakers, but they've all just created like films and visuals with AI, and it was almost like they've all come together and created their own awards show for it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

So it's quite interesting to I I've got like so my point of view on AI is that like AI is gonna is it's hail, it's gonna continue to get better, it's really helpful, but I do think that um AI lacks the tools that we have as humans, which is like the intricacies of emotion, like there's finer details of like what we do. I feel like at the moment AI is input question, output design or answer, right? But it couldn't tell you the workings of that, and as artists, as creatives, the work is in the process, the art is actually in the process, like we get to what you see is the end product, but there is lived experience, there's like moments of clarity, there's the fogginess of not knowing what you're doing, there's the delusion that you have to continue to strive through in order to get to the end goal, yeah, and that's not that is something that can't be replicated by technology. Obviously, you're gonna get to a point where you can like input, I need this to look like this, or I need this to feel like this, but there's something I feel that we have inherently, which is obviously all of our intricacies and all of our flaws that make us feel, and I feel like the stories that we tell are always in the finer details of life, and that's why I think like it's important for us not to forget when it comes to like creating stories and telling stories, you know.

Staying Motivated Through Setbacks

SPEAKER_03 55:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, one of the reasons why I didn't ask you about your career, because for me, I think the questions of the conversation that we've been having will give people an insight to what you do, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they don't need to know where you've worked and all that kind of stuff, like, yeah, but just need to know what you've done and what you what you're doing and what you're creating, and I think it's been quite insightful, especially for myself as well. Definitely. Um, and it's been quite good, and I'm hoping that everyone obviously has been taking notes. Um, just a few more questions away from kind of like question structure that we've gone through. Okay. Um, do you have a question for me?

SPEAKER_00 55:54

I do have a question for you, man. Um, when so obviously you've gone through, and this is just based off our conversation, yeah. You you've gone through um that whole advertising um like experience uh you're now putting on events you're also putting on for your community. How do you stay number one level headed, but also how do you also still stay motivated to continue to do those things? Um I feel like I I have a feeling of what you're gonna say, but I'll be really interested to know like how you feel in those in those times, like when you get setbacks and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

Yeah, so obviously at the time when I did the um at the time when I did the um advertising stuff, obviously that was a bit I was younger then, so I didn't really know a lot of what I know now. I didn't have leadership, obviously, you know, Boss Toby. I didn't have any of someone like that in my life at all. Yeah, um it was just myself, my sisters, my mum, and then my friends that I used to hang around with, smoke, do all sorts. Um, nothing was there to kind of guide me. Um and for me, it was always a case of like I just thought to myself, okay, cool, this didn't work out. Fell down, what's the next one? Start try to go into fashion. Okay, cool, great, doesn't work. But I think what I do now that's different from then was that with what I do now, I never had the motivation to start it.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

It was never a motivation, it was more of like a purpose, a call-in to be like, you know what, this is your space to take, not to take in sense of like a personal thing, but this is your space to really help people with what you have in your hands at that moment, which was for me basketball. Right. Um and obviously with basketball, it was also okay, cool. When I was younger, I couldn't play indoors because I didn't have a lot of money to be paying to play indoors, and if I did pay, it was an issue because I'm paying with the old a lot. They might not put me on their team, so I've paid my money, but I'm and I might not play, I might just pay like 10 minutes. So why don't I just eradicate those two things and actually create that for guys that are going through the same thing? Yeah. And then you realize that pretty much the whole community is going through that, and then that has just evolved over time. So I just allowed myself to just kind of be led and just kind of not go with the flow, but still being a creator, but still just as things presents itself. I'm analyzing and I'm taking it on. So like 2023, we didn't have a lot of money coming in because initially what we're doing before was doing carpet sales, family and friends will maybe donate and we'll book the court, but in 2023, that wasn't there. So that's where I started learning how to engage more in different places. That's why the podcast started, that's why we started doing sports media, different events to bring people in the community, going to the parks and doing media for games and stuff like that, just to give people more visibility and for us to still be active. And um, that's where from the podcast, now understanding, oh yeah, I can now apply for grants, and then because of the conversation I've had with people, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then just building up from there, and then from doing the grants, okay, now brand partnerships, build a brand partnership. Oh, yeah, I can go into unis and do media for them.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

And then obviously, like just yeah, it just kept gradually building over time, and that's what we've been doing since one one thing that um really like we spoke off camera and off mic before we came in here, and uh, I asked you like um what experience did you have of this before you started it? And you said none. And I I really I really loved that um because it shows that you're a person who's able to, you know, learn on the fly and not be afraid to get your hands dirty or like figure something out. Um I guess my next question would be what's the biggest takeaway so far on your journey that you've learned that you feel like has been super helpful for you as you continue moving forward?

Dream Guests And Final Wrap Up

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

Um consistency over perfection. Yeah, like for me, that's how I can sum it up. I can say so much more. Yeah, but consistency over perfection. I think just staying consistent and you're gonna fail during that consistency, you're gonna do well doing that consistency, you're gonna be certain things are gonna happen to you, people are not gonna want to speak to you, people you're gonna lose people, you're gonna gain people, but you're consistent in what you're doing constantly. You're not perfect. Like I've done episodes here where I'll go home and the sound is mashup. It doesn't mean that I'm not panicking, I'm like, okay, cool, it happens. Yeah, yeah, let's keep going. But that consistency of a perfection, eventually, perfection is a process as well. Eventually, when you get to that perfection, there's still another level of perfection that you need to get to. Exactly, exactly. For me, it's always been that, um, and always making sure that everything I do is very selfless and it's always benefiting people. That's my always that's the best thing as well for me. That's dope. That's really dope, man. Yeah, yeah. Anymore? Nah, man. Nah, that's a good thing. Cool, cool. Um, okay, so my not my last question, but well, kind of like my last question. Um, who would you like to see on this podcast or invite onto this podcast?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Oh, beyond the athlete. Who would I want to see on here, man? That's a really good question, you know. That's a really good question, and I didn't think about this beforehand. So it is something that I'm actually currently searching my brain and database for to see who would be interesting to talk to. Do you know who would be a really amazing guest on here? Um, my brother Yafhu Downs. Who's he? Uh Yafu Downs was um well, we were on a podcast together. Okay, cool. Um, very close friend of mine. We met each other at Nike Town London.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

Okay. Is he the one that works in Amsterdam?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

He works in Amsterdam. I won't say what company he works for, yeah. But um he's very knowledgeable. Um, he's um responsible to for a lot of things that are moving in culture, and he's a person that knows how to disseminate information in a way that uh I feel would be super beneficial for people that listen to listen to and watch your podcast. Um, yeah, he's he's amazing. Steven, love to see Steven on here. Obviously, even though he's so busy, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:38

He responds back sometimes, but every time it's to do with like business, I don't hear from him. But it's calm though.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Definitely, Steven, probably probably qualm here as well, man. Like my basically my podcast brothers, I'd love to see them on a one-to-one um uh situation in front of me. Um, I mean ours has been on here already, uh, and then if I could think of anyone else that I would love to see on here from an uh from like an athlete to to business or athlete beyond perspective. Let me think, huh? If you could get this lady on here, Jennifer Simmons. Yeah, if you can get Jenny Simmons on this table, wow, that's a great interview, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Okay, Jenny.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

Funny enough, yeah. This um this season, I I actually wanted it to be predominantly women. Yeah. Um, we've had a few guys already, but I actually want to be wanting it to be predominantly women. And we do have some women that are gonna be coming on. Amazing. Um, people I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get um Chloe Kelly. Okay, that would be good. I think that'll be quite a good conversation. Yeah, another lady called Jordan Mitchell, who wants a sports organization as well. Um the Serena Wag Wagman as well. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

Oh what? The actual the the manager, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That'd be cold, bro. Actually, like Burner Boy, is it? Yeah, actually, really loves Burner Boy, like that'll be dope. Yeah, it's crazy. And um also Stefan Dixon, if you can get them. Literally, basically, I I really want to hear my my friends' perspective and how they uh approach your questions because this is a really dope like setting. It's a really cool way to just like talk through things that we feel and understand and get to the core of like our crafts in some way, you know what I mean? In a way that's beneficial to other people.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:25

Yeah, if you if if you hear my first few episodes, the ones I record that I never released.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

Hey man, we all got some the kind of questions I was asked, we all got them very, very like basic episodes, yeah, songs, films, ideas, notes. There's loads of them, bruv. Yeah, but you know what? You had to do the reps. Exactly. We all gotta do the reps, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:46

We all gotta do the reps, exactly. But yeah, um, yeah, thank you very much for this episode. It's been good. I think thank you everyone for watching. Um it's been interesting, it's been exciting, it's been insightful. Um, it's just family having a conversation, and we're just bringing you guys into it. Um, like I always say, don't forget to subscribe, don't forget to show love, um, comment as well. Let us know what you guys think. We're always looking at feedback to be to be better, um, to improve our content for you guys as well. And um yeah, man, like we'll hope to see you guys in the next episode. And God bless, take care, and thank you to Kieran for being on the podcast today. And this is Coach David, I'll take care. Peace.