Imagine straddling the line between the ferocious power of the ocean's biggest waves and the gentle, yet perpetual, tug of fatherhood. This episode takes you on an epic journey with Andrew Cotton, a titan of big wave surfing, as he shares the deeply personal narrative of his life's adventures and tribulations. From his humble beginnings in North Devon to the breath-taking swells of Nazaré, we traverse Cotty's path to a professional surfing career, his friendship and collaboration with surfing legend Garrett McNamara, and the indelible mark of fatherhood that propels his every move.
This compelling conversation reveals the intricacies of balancing a life chasing thrills with the grounding force of family. We peel back the layers of Andrew's career highs and lows, including his daunting recovery from a devastating back injury and the emotional resilience required to navigate personal hardships like divorce. Listen as Cotty offers a masterclass in adaptability and determination, discussing the pressures of aligning family moments with the capricious nature of professional surfing and how these challenges are emblematic of a universal struggle faced by many.
As we wrap up, Andrew Cotton's insights transform this discussion into a profound reflection on humility, the psychological hurdles of an athlete's journey, and the fine line between pushing one's children in sports and letting them find their own way. It's a story that transcends surfing, touching on the heart of what it means to relentlessly pursue one's passions while maintaining the delicate balance that family life demands. Tune in for an episode that promises to stir the soul and inspire the brave pursuit of dreams amidst life's ebb and flow.
The Athlete Dad Resources:
Imagine straddling the line between the ferocious power of the ocean's biggest waves and the gentle, yet perpetual, tug of fatherhood. This episode takes you on an epic journey with Andrew Cotton, a titan of big wave surfing, as he shares the deeply personal narrative of his life's adventures and tribulations. From his humble beginnings in North Devon to the breath-taking swells of Nazaré, we traverse Cotty's path to a professional surfing career, his friendship and collaboration with surfing legend Garrett McNamara, and the indelible mark of fatherhood that propels his every move.
This compelling conversation reveals the intricacies of balancing a life chasing thrills with the grounding force of family. We peel back the layers of Andrew's career highs and lows, including his daunting recovery from a devastating back injury and the emotional resilience required to navigate personal hardships like divorce. Listen as Cotty offers a masterclass in adaptability and determination, discussing the pressures of aligning family moments with the capricious nature of professional surfing and how these challenges are emblematic of a universal struggle faced by many.
As we wrap up, Andrew Cotton's insights transform this discussion into a profound reflection on humility, the psychological hurdles of an athlete's journey, and the fine line between pushing one's children in sports and letting them find their own way. It's a story that transcends surfing, touching on the heart of what it means to relentlessly pursue one's passions while maintaining the delicate balance that family life demands. Tune in for an episode that promises to stir the soul and inspire the brave pursuit of dreams amidst life's ebb and flow.
The Athlete Dad Resources:
Nazarene 2017, and it was one of the biggest swells of the year and, well, actually one of the biggest swells you've had in a long time. It was one of those like all-or-nothing sort of days for me, and I put it on the line, committed quite heavily to a wave and the way I read the wave was just wrong, paid the price for that, you know, and I fell. The wave hit me so hard it sort of basically just crushed me, and then you have to go through the whole whole situation, dealing with, like other waves and jet ski rides, and I was fortunate to get to the beach. I basically just told the boys that I'm pretty sure I broke my back and, for the life of me, I couldn't even put a foot on the floor. Shit, this is pretty fucking serious.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Athlete Dad Podcast, where we explore the intersection of physical pursuits and fatherhood, of physical pursuits and fatherhood. I'm your host, ben Gibson, and each episode we'll dive deep into topics like modeling, ambition, achieving balance and intentional integration around athletic passions and parenting. If you're seeking to accomplish your goals as an athlete while crushing it as a parent, then you've come to the right place. Come to the right place. What's up everyone? We are back with an exciting conversation with Mr Andrew Cotton, known by most simply as Cotty. Cotty is a professional big wave surfer. He is also the co-star of HBO's series 100 Foot Wave.
Speaker 2:If that sounds familiar, you may remember Garrett McNamara joining us on the podcast on episode nine. We had the pleasure of meeting Andrew through Garrett and I can remember watching 100 Foot Wave and seeing Andrew and just really falling in love with his story. Andrew's story is one about dreaming, about self-belief, about perseverance, even in the face of some seemingly insurmountable challenges. I mean even just growing up. Where he grew up in North Devon in the UK, he did not have a straight path to the life of a pro surfer and yet once he got on a board as a kid, he immediately knew that, no matter what it would take. He was going to find a way to surf as his career and find a way he did, and in our conversation you'll hear all about Andrew's rise through the surf scene, bouncing between jobs like being a plumber, until what most would deem the end of their careers, when Cotty was able to link up with Garrett McNamara to surf some of the biggest waves on earth at Nazare, portugal.
Speaker 2:How do you balance being a father when you have an unpredictable travel schedule taking you all over the world with two kids at home and you want to be an amazing father but also continue to pursue your dreams as a professional surfer?
Speaker 2:It's pretty tough, and so we talk about how Andrew thinks about balancing fatherhood with that often unpredictable travel schedule and this idea about investing in your kids when you are home to try to offset when you're away. He also talks about the challenges of co-parenting after a divorce and how to turn a negative situation like a divorce into something very positive. There's this great theme amongst the surfers we've had on the show, and that's that they've all been extremely intentional about designing the life that they wanted for themselves and for their families, and they worked for decades to overcome huge obstacles to realize those dreams, and I think that there are not just so many lessons in this conversation around balance and lifestyle design and pursuing your dreams, but really the challenges that need to be overcome to manifest that for yourself. So, without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Mr Andrew Cotton. Andrew, thanks so much for taking time out of your travels, out of your week, to have this conversation around athlete dad life, so I really appreciate you being here.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me and giving me the opportunity to chat.
Speaker 2:I know we met through our friend Garrett and you know I know many folks are familiar with your story, a bit from 100 for a Wave. But you know, help us understand a bit more about what does life look like for you as dad? And then what does life look like for you as athlete in the really the two different worlds that you're navigating right now.
Speaker 1:I got divorced in like 2019. So my life changed very differently then, whereas I felt like I was spending a lot more time at home when I was married, and now, like with obviously separation and then in COVID, I started spending definitely a lot more time abroad. I've got two children. I've got a honey, who's 16. She's my stepdaughter. You know been her dad since she was three. And then I have Ace. You know being her dad since I was. She was three, and then I have Ace, who's 11. As I am, yeah, moving to my 40s, trying to like really make the most of my career, you know, always focusing on riding the biggest waves, um, in the best locations, and focusing on my performance as an athlete. I've had some pretty bad injuries over the years, as, as any professional athlete um has or, you know, gets, and it's just trying to like manage those and and still compete with the youngsters really yeah, they seem to be just getting younger and younger and doing more crazy stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean, even just in the time you've been at nazare, it went from just like can we catch these waves and ride them? To then guys like kai doing aerials off of these waves. It's quite a dramatic shift yes, it's the.
Speaker 1:The landscape is moving very quickly and I feel like, especially like the big wave scene, that these other sort of um sports and kite sports and wind sports and windsurfing is all having like, uh, influence on actual surfing itself, which is, I feel it's taking that performance level to the next level.
Speaker 1:You know, whereas for me, like I've always been a surfer and focused on surfing and, and then big wave was just like an opportunity that came my way, um, which something was like really enjoying and I love pushing and but it's great to see, you know, like in a professional career, that we thought that we'd stop winding it down like in our 30s. I didn't sign a. My first contract was when I was like 34, 35, so it's kind of like late into the game, um, so I just feel it's like an opportunity and I'm like I'm like like every, yeah, every moment of the minute it's like well, how can I, how can I get better? How can I get fitter? How can it's like well, how can I get better? How can I get fitter? How can I work my injuries? How can I outperform these guys, these younger kids that are coming through and still keep pushing it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. The evolution of the sport really requires an evolution in how you, as an athlete, approach even just competing in it. You know how do you bring in different dynamics from different disciplines and apply it in the same way, and I think it's it's also for me as a I'm 35, it's reassuring to hear that you know you didn't get your first contract till you were 34 and that there's still a lot, of, a lot of work to be done as an athlete. Uh, well, into our 40s. Because I I do agree. Like you know, when you're 20s you're like, yeah, I'll wrap this up by 35 and that's pretty much it. I'll be in, you know, I'll be in a wheelchair by 40, and you know it's, it's it's reassuring to hear, for sure and hanging out, but I just sometimes like I'm getting these opportunities now.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking like no way, like if I had this in my 20s or when I was like I left school at like 16 and the dream was always to be a professional surfer, but I just never. Like I never really came my way, which was never a problem. Like I worked and did various jobs in the surf industry and but like I'm always thinking shit, if I really knew what I know now, like how it could have been different. But things all happen for a reason and, um, you know, I feel like I'm like really really in a good place. I'm really really fortunate that's awesome, man.
Speaker 2:You know I want to talk about you pursuing your dreams. You pursuing your goal as a professional surfer. Um, you know, I know it hasn't always been easy and it's been a very long journey and there's a lot of ups and downs, as you mentioned, injuries and obviously with competition, and you're relying on a sport that is dependent upon nature providing the right conditions, and you have to travel all over the world. You know there's a lot that goes into pursuing your dreams, but, you know, one of the things I really believe in is that, like one there's it's important to do so because of that personal fulfillment aspect of it, and like that's what we're here to do in life is to pursue the things that light us up, that that we're passionate about. But then you start shifting to being a dad. Being a dad and I think there's this whole other side of that pursuing ambition, modeling ambition piece that almost becomes like a responsibility as a dad to show our kids how they should go about navigating the world, like what is?
Speaker 2:pursuing your goals meant for you now as a dad, as you think about showing your kids that of like, go pursue your dreams, go do these things like that, do you feel like it has a bit more meaning to it for you now?
Speaker 1:it's. That's you know. It's really funny, I think, if you, depending on who you speak to, you always get different opinions on on this and I and I do struggle navigating it. I feel like in the beginning, having um, honey and ace, it was like okay, right now, now I have to make this a career, otherwise it just has to be a hobby. So it's almost like the motivation it was like. I can actually remember like ace came along and it was like, okay, like I've really got to sort it out, I've really got to make this, monetize this, and like this either has to be a job or it has to be okay, like I do it, maybe every now and then at a weekend. So it really helped me professionalize my goals, I suppose, and professionalize what I was doing and motivate me as well. I was like, yeah, I just wanted to achieve something to prove that I could do it, and I think that was a real motivation for me.
Speaker 1:I had a big injury in 2017. I was doing a lot of traveling, but only in Europe. Through those younger years when I had ACE, I was almost like in 2017, after my my, I broke my back and I was kind of like on the edge of like hanging up, like, okay, right, yeah, I kind of done, I'm happy to stay at home. And then my, my, my marriage sort of fell apart and and it actually released a new set of ambitions for me. Really, like I was struggling with it. Okay, I'm 40 now, I'm a single and I was looking around at where I live at home and I was like I just I don't want to be here. You know, like I don't want to be living in in this village and in devon, and it just sort of motivated me to get fit, uh, get stronger, set new goals, you know, look for new partners and brands to work with, and yeah, and just go after it even harder.
Speaker 1:Um, and and all of that sort of was happening, just as the time that the HBO stuff was sort of coming out, which really gave me an extra push with exposure wise as well, and it is also motivational like having a film crew there filming what you're doing and where you're going, and you know the sessions that you're doing, and so it all sort of really, you know, you know, came together, which is kind of a surprise. You know, like I didn't, I didn't really think that I'll be going as hard. You know this, this further into my you know, like into my 40s, I don't think I'll be pushing it as hard, but but yeah, it's exciting, it's been exciting yeah, I mean kudos to you for taking a situation that was difficult and a down moment and really turning it into a positive Like.
Speaker 2:I think in a lot of those ways that's where I think athletics and physical pursuits are so important, because it can one give you something to anchor on of like, okay, I've got, you know, I've got this goal that is well within my control as much as anything can be right, but that I can put energy and and focus into. That's going to have a really positive outcome. And yeah, and it's it's. It's cool to hear that you know really unleashed new motivation, new goals for you to get back and grind and and make the most of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, like you know, having having like a young family definitely changed my direction a little bit. You make decisions and you think, could it have all been different? In fact, it was like, no, everything's just right, this is all perfect, and having Ace and Honey were the main motivations to make everything more professional. And just because I'm not with my mom anymore, like it doesn't make any difference. You know, like I can still be a great dad, but I can actually show them that, that you know that when they're teenagers, you know like they can say, yeah, their dads, their stats, they're still going hard in the ocean, you know, and I was still still trying to pretend he's 21, but yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hey, I mean that's that's the way to live, right? Is uh is showing them that, like, dude, I'm going to run this thing until the wheels come off, like I'm going to do everything I can and, and you know you're setting yourself up for whatever that that next phase of life looks like. Right, it's like there's always going to be something next, you know, once the career is done, you know, and the work you're putting in now I'm sure is teeing that up. But yeah, I mean, I like what you said about the.
Speaker 2:You know, having a young family really shifted things professionally. You know I was talking with another dad and you know he was saying he felt a lot of anxiety because a lot of his competitors were like single dudes that all they had to do was basically be an athlete and train and travel, and so it really did ramp up the way that he was focused on training, because he's like I only have this window, I have to make it the best possible training. Like, how did that shift for you in terms of what did that professionalism look like? Like, were you more organized? Was there just more preparation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, like it definitely did affect the amount of time I spent abroad and surf about 100%. It did affect that, but it also made you make the most of when you did go surfing. I remember a couple of friends saying now you're going to be a dad, it's probably time to wind it down. It was funny that the pressure was from more friends and maybe family members saying, okay, well, now you're a dad, now you've got like kids, maybe, just like you know, think about full-time plumbing career and forget about surfing. And so I felt like that was more external pressure. You know those people weren't being mean or trying to crush a dream, it was just, you know, like, the way that they were thinking about things or you know, just like, okay, well, that also motivated me to think, well, no, actually, no, like that's maybe what you want to do, but I don't want to give up on this yet. You know like I still felt good. You know, I still felt like I had stuff to achieve and and was capable of doing that that resonates so much.
Speaker 2:I mean, when I had my first son too, I, I, I think I felt it more internal. I guess it was just know from years of absorbing society's messaging. And you know, I was like, damn, am I done? Am I done climbing mountains? Like, am I done doing somewhat risky endeavors? Like, or do I just have to adjust the way that I approach it? Kind of like what you're thinking about of like risk and taking care of my body. But then, yeah, I love your point of like well, no, that's just how you chose to live your life. And like there's a reason that you, as Andrew, are flying all over the world to get to surf the biggest waves is because you're willing to take the risk, you know, and make the sacrifices to get to go do those things. And that was a big shift for me of like, no, like realizing, like, is that what I want my kids to do? It's like well, when you came along, dad gave up all his dreams and just cashed it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then that turns into a later time. It all turned into resentment. I guess you know, or could do. You know, like, and it's maybe not in the younger years, but maybe more as you know, like you know in your 40s or 50s, when the kids start leaving home, you're like actually, you know, like I still feel like I'm able-bodied, but I gave up my career when I was 30,.
Speaker 2:you know, like Right.
Speaker 1:And I could have, and I think I didn't want to be, you know like. You know that I could have done this, you know, but want to be, you know like. You know that I could have done this, you know, but. But life happened, you know like, and I had to give up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like we have to give up something. I guess it's like give up, or I think it more of like uh, we've got to sacrifice something. Right, there's of course, the sacrifices.
Speaker 1:You know, I, I know full well like it has a strain and effect on relationships. You know, especially, especially with your partners, and at first we traveled a lot together as a family. Obviously, when the kids start to go to school and then it's like suddenly not as fun, you know, like dad's not here as much or dad's just nipped off and he can't do the school run, and then it becomes a little bit harder. First and foremost, you know they've always been priority for me and I know, like, as any athlete will say, you know we don't have, I don't have a schedule, so it's kind of hard to plan around and I think that's the most taxing thing. Like if I I think if we could go at the beginning of the year and just hand that the fixture list over to your partner and say, oh, this is what my whole plan is this year, it would have been be a lot easier. But it's not.
Speaker 1:You know, and and and that's just the nature of big wave surfing and what I do and and the kids, they love that sort of, you know, that adventure and and like the time I do spend with them, like we have the best adventures and I think that quality time for me is like it's been amazing, you know, like the the trips that I've done with Honey and Ace and in the last couple of years, like as Honey's got a bit older, she's been less keen to like down things. She wants to hang out with her friends, but Ace is still totally up for it and he started snowboarding and he's interested into surfing and into soccer and different sports and yeah, we've had some really really good adventures together, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard with the no schedule, but also there's really no blueprint for how you and your whole life show up like this, like there's very few people to model after of. Like, how do I do this? How do I manage the schedule, manage the kids, deal with all the ambiguity and the chaos, um, and so actually one of the things I was curious about was around this idea of you know, knowing that you're gone and traveling, yeah, how do you think about either catching up or making up or being really present when you are back home, or including them in those in those travels?
Speaker 1:like when I was away, I was working, surfing, and when I was home, like I was always around to do the school, the school pickups, the you know, the drop-offs, the clubs, and to spend quality time also is like, it's like being self-employed. The thing that I often found myself getting sucked into is like you're trying to do the school run and and do the clubs, but you're also trying to like, reply to emails and do your social media and, you know, do your sponsor obligations and and also look at the, the charts and plan your next trip and and who you're filming with and what projects you're doing. So it it has always been a juggling act, but it is trying to keep those times. Quality Okay, right, I can do quality work time and then quality family time.
Speaker 1:I've always found myself going in and out of those things. Sometimes I get up to the tea and I feel quite proud of myself, and other times I find myself slipping back into that where you're trying to reply to emails when you should be really just, you know, sitting at the dinner table. You know like and being and being present. You know. If you can master that, I think you, you, you set yourself up for a far easier life and and relationships as well, and I think that is the key, because it is about having really good relationships with your partner and your kids, and I think that's the key learn how to do those things like how much has that been the case for you?
Speaker 2:like, have there been times where things really came to a head and you found yourself being like man?
Speaker 1:I've really got to learn this lesson or it's going to cost me totally all the time and and I'm still learning and I'm still going through that it's about rhythms. For me, like you get into a really good rhythm and you feel like you're doing really well and then all of a sudden, before you know it, you've fallen back into old habits or bad habits of things that have just haven't worked. You know like either they stress you out and you feel like there's too much going on, you feel like you're committing to too much, too many things and you're juggling, like the children and the family time, and but that's, that's continuous. What we tell ourselves is is because we're trying to do our passion or a goal, that we're in the wrong, or that I'm in the wrong, and it's like actually, well, do you know what? Even if I had a normal job, like if I had my own plumbing business, it would be exactly the same. You know you still have pressures of, like replying to inquiries or keep it on top of the invoices or all these things, and you'll still be doing the same.
Speaker 1:So I think that I think the fact that you're doing what you love doing and you are managing to put food on the table and you are managing to achieve a personal goal and to live your dream. That comes with a little bit of guilt, which which really it shouldn't do. You know like it shouldn't do. Why, why should that come with guilt? You know, like that guilt is sometimes hard to manage. And I speak to some of my friends who you know they have great jobs at home and but they're exactly the same, like they're balancing all these things work.
Speaker 2:You know all these things and, and I think everyone is struggling to manage those times that that's an interesting point of like yeah, like the guilt coming from the fact that you just happen to love what you do. It's like, yeah, if you were like an accountant, like would you feel less guilty? Or like what if you were just super pumped on accounting? And you're like, fuck, I feel guilty because I really love accounting and spreadsheets. But like you know, like it is, yeah, I think people's perceptions is like you know, you're out there just playing and they don't see all that goes into everything that you do, of like the business side of it. And then you're like, oh yeah, I actually have to go train and surf too so that I can keep doing all this stuff. And then I'm gone, which is hard, but the guilt is real man.
Speaker 1:I suppose my, my business is a small cottage. You know, like I'm very small, I'm a one-man band, like I don't have a management team or anyone doing my social media, I'm doing everything myself. Okay, so not only do I have to run my small business, I also have to surf, which is the key, the main part of the job. But then train, keep fit, and it is. It's super hard to find time in the day and you know like I'm so fortunate, but it is. It is a full balancing act and and there is a lot of guilt that I, dude, I have that, the internal I mean I've.
Speaker 2:I have two kinds of guilt. I guess is like normal dad guilt of, like you know, I'm laying in bed, of like, ah, I kind of I lost my shit today. You know I I should have been more calm, I should have been more patient, or I didn't get enough time. And then there's the other guilt of, yeah, like being away and pursuing the things I want to pursue, or even just traveling for work.
Speaker 2:But I remember this moment with my oldest son, I was going to climb in Alaska this last June and you know, we just we're trying to talk about the importance of it and like this is kind of a big deal and dad's going to be like you can only reach me via satellite phone and even then it's only via text message, so you're only going to get to talk to dad through mom reading text messages.
Speaker 2:And I found this out after the words. But my oldest son went to my wife and goes is dad going to die on this trip? And I was like, oh, dude, like I'm so sorry that, like that was a thing that I put on you that you even had to consider, because I'm just like gone doing my thing that I love, but like, yeah, that just like feeling so torn in two places. And you know, my wife was like I didn't want to tell you that before you left, but like afterwards I thought it was important for you to know that. And it was like I didn't want to tell you that before you left, but like afterwards I thought it was important for you to know that.
Speaker 1:And it's like, man, that I don't know that that guilt ever goes away Like managing that, I think, is like a constant ordeal for us. Yeah, I can remember coming home when I sort of broke my back and I'd spoken to Ace on the phone and sort of said, oh look, I've broken my back. And obviously he'd gone to school and said, oh, my dad's broken his back. And I think maybe someone had just said, oh, so what is it? You know, is your dad in the wheelchair now? You know, like he didn't think that I would get better. I had back-to-back quite serious injuries. I had a compression fracture in my L2 in my back. That was out of action and I think the hardest thing for.
Speaker 1:Both of the kids, but maybe more for ace, who's a bit younger, was I couldn't really play with him, you know, like, like in the things that he wanted to do, which was like football and skateboarding at the time, and I was only surfing again for like two months and then I ruptured all the ligaments in my knee and then I was out of action for another like six to eight months. So for two years ace saw me on crutches and either bedridden or not being able to do the things that that we wanted to do or he wanted to do with me, and you sort of think my guilt with him was like I hope I just not putting him off sports. You know, like dad's always injured, like he goes away and comes back either on crutches or in, like his leg and plaster, you know, like it was just like anything can happen in life, you know, and it does, you know, to millions of people. You know every day.
Speaker 2:It's hard too, I think, because you know, for kids dad is Superman, so you're like man Superman's going out and breaking his back, and this is like it's probably hard for the kids.
Speaker 1:He's just at home. He's always injured and he's always like either like lying on the sofa or hobbling around on crutches. So, you know and yeah, and obviously like his friends, especially like the bat thing was quite widespread on the telly and like quite so I think at school like he was getting probably a few more comments than any he would have usually got.
Speaker 2:you know, especially we were not because I wanted him on me like you know, I think when kids are young like that, context is maybe missing. But but I'm curious about that specific incident, you know, as I remember learning about it, reading about it, you know. Walk us through that moment of what happened when you broke your back, because I think it's one thing to break your back on land, but to break your back in the ocean, at a place like Nazare, that had to be terrifying. So walk us through that moment. Where were you, what was happening and how did it go down?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it was just Nazare in 2017. And it was one of the biggest swells of the year Well, actually, one of the biggest swells I've had in a long time. It was one of those like all or nothing sort of days for me. And I put it on the line, committed quite heavily to a wave, and the way I read the wave was just wrong. You know, when we look at the wave, it's like I definitely surf it different. Now I paid the price for that. I fell and the wave hit me so hard it basically just crushed me. I knew instantly that I'd done some serious damage. The impact was on a different level. Then you have to go through the whole situation, dealing with other waves and jet ski rides. I was fortunate to get to the beach. Um, I never at any point thought I was going to drown or I was just in a lot of pain, you know. And I did get to the beach and from that second it was all handled very, very professionally and very quick and, um, you know, like I've been a lifeguard for for seven or eight years in the uk and I basically just told the boys that I was pretty sure I'd broken my back and they just did a classic spinal takedown and that was it.
Speaker 1:I was in the hospital within an hour, I think, once I got to the beach. There was a bit of a language problem. Obviously, we were in Portugal and I speak no Portuguese. It wasn't until probably like 48 hours later and I hadn't even stood up. I'd been lying down the whole time. I hadn't even like try to sit up or anything like that, like I just couldn't do that. And the nurse came in and was like okay, we're going to try and get you to stand up today. And they put this like body brace on me to sort of take the weight of my spine. And they did all this body brace up, this body brace up, and actually Garrett was there. Like Garrett was in the room. The nurse sort of put the brace on and tried to sit me up on the bed and for the life of me, like I couldn't.
Speaker 1:I couldn't even put a foot on the floor and it wasn't the fact that I couldn't put a foot on the floor, it was looking Garrett's eye. I could just see that. It was the first time I've ever ever seen him even slightly concerned, like he'd always been. So like, are you be alright? It's fine, you know. And he looked it's the first time I've ever sort of seen like a little bit of fear and concern in his eyes and I was like shit, like this is pretty fucking serious.
Speaker 1:Like that day, that day I actually didn't stand up. The lady tried to get me up. I was almost sick, I was like nauseous. I actually didn't stand up. The lady tried to get me up. I was almost sick, I was like nauseous, I just couldn't do it. And then they were like worried oh, maybe he's got like a bad concussion. And then I went for brain scans and then the reality sort of hit like oh, this isn't just a little injury, this isn't just a broken bone where you put it in plaster and you rest for a few weeks and then you're back out on action. You know like this is quite serious. Rehab for me is quite easy because go to a program, you just follow a program. Right, if you do this, this and this by this you're. You're physically there. I think that's where the athlete in me takes over, because I love following those programs and I love feel I'm getting better and stronger.
Speaker 1:But I think mentally, like the trauma probably takes a lot longer than we think to get over that and I think that trauma was probably hanging around for a good three, three, four years you know, like and it's probably a little little bit still in the back of my mind now like I feel like if I had like a really bad injury now, like I feel like I don't know if I could go through another year of you know a year of rehab you never know until you're faced with that. But you know, that's the back of my mind sometimes, like if I had to do another big injury like that, like I don't know if I could do it.
Speaker 2:The psychological part of that is enormous. Yeah, as, as you mentioned, and even even once you're back which you've you did successfully come back and surf again. It's always sort of there in the back of your mind, I imagine to, to feel like you know, I really I can't and don't want this to to be a repeat of what has already gone down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's already gone, or lucky. You know, like you could say fuck, I was like super lucky. You know, like my back could have been way worse, my knee could have been way worse and I I had huge support, especially the back injury. Like I had so much support and love from so many people that I'd never met so many messages and and I was like, yeah, it's like whoa. No, no way, like I can't believe, like this it touched so many people.
Speaker 1:You know that they felt that the the need to either email or message or my family and friends and and and even you know, my sponsors. You know everyone stood by and and supported me through through those two years. You know of bad injuries so and I was amazed because I didn't think anyone would you know.
Speaker 1:You know, like, uh, thanks for coming, you know, like you did well, but probably this is this is it you know, and but they didn't. So I was. I felt like I was really, really fortunate, you know, and, and that motivates you to to come back and and do it. You know, show again like, show what's possible.
Speaker 2:Prove to yourself you know what you can put your body through and survive and and also still achieve what you want to try and do, yeah, and it's amazing that, in that moment of like fear and desperation, that that that love came from all different sources people you knew, people you didn't, sponsors, all the above.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's awesome, you know, I think, when, when you think about all you've gone through and this might be a really hard question to answer, so you can take a second if you want to ponder it for a bit but when you think about the injuries and the struggle of trying to make it, as a professional athlete, pursue your goals and going through the divorce and all the other challenges that you faced in your life in the pursuit of really creating the life that you want to live, and you think about if you had to pass on one or two lessons to your kids, knowing what you know from all those experiences, like, what do you think are the one or two things that you'd really want to communicate to your kids that you've taken away from building this life that you've built?
Speaker 1:don't give up. I've read something the other day it's about knowing a good time to walk away, you know, or to give up on something I don't know if I really agree with that or not like I feel like there's been so many times where I've just wanted to walk away from it all and not give up on my surfing dream or those goals that I've been trying to achieve. And sitting here right now, I'm so glad I didn't give up on my surfing From leaving school. I left school at 16 and was told basically, surfing is not a job, so you can't do it, so choose something else on the list. That was my careers advisor from my secondary school. It was like you can't be a surfer, it's not a job. You have to either go to college or go to university and you can choose these 100 jobs on the list here. Just choose one. I don't want to do any of those.
Speaker 2:choose one I don't want to do any of those things. I don't want to do any of those like and this is all you know like.
Speaker 1:So I left school and started work straight away in a surfboard factory and even then I was like trying to compete and and I was just so like in small way of competition, surfing, and and even though I never really got the results, I always like, put, put my time in and did my best. You know, and and this is hard as being a dad, like kids have very different personalities. You know, like honey, who's the eldest, he's very driven and very committed to everything she does, whether it's like school or any sport. She's a really keen rugby player, but ace the younger one, I like sometimes I just seem given up very quickly and I'm like, mate, come on, like, yeah, yeah, of course you're gonna fall, of course you're gonna hurt yourself, but don't let it put you off, because I see sometimes them giving up very quickly on on things that they get into. But maybe that's just kids finding their way of what they their passion is. But for me it's just like, yeah, don't give up?
Speaker 2:that's the million dollar question and often when we explore is like how do we appropriately push our kids?
Speaker 1:so I used to do, um a surf club. In my 20s I did a local surf club. I was very involved in it. Um, I was obviously working in the surf industry, um, working at a surf shop and and at the weekends we used to do like club contests and kid stuff and and I saw some really, really pushy parents. It kind of was like I just never want to be like. I can remember saying to myself like when I'm a dad, like I don't want to be that guy you know like yeah, so it was always. It's always a hard one navigating that. So I've always like given them the tools but never been too cushy with that. Yeah, but then sometimes I'm like it's hard to know whether you're doing the right thing, because they says I don't want to go surfing, like it's cold and and like I'm just not enjoying it.
Speaker 2:You're like well, if you're not enjoying it, don't do it, mate like you know yeah but that, yeah, or do you go?
Speaker 1:no, mate, you've got to go surfing today. It's like you've got to go in three times every week. You know, you have, you know like, and it's the same with swim club, he didn't, he doesn't like, he didn't like swimming. But my, my thing was like okay, you don't want to do like squad training, but you have to do at least two sessions of swimming every week and he hated it, he hates it. But it's one thing that I sort of stood my ground on, like so important to be good at swimming, so like I kind of forced him on that one a little bit. We, we pushed it for, I think, two years. He's just gone back now he does. Now he does one session swim training and he's taken up water polo, but it's just like yeah, yeah, you know like you have to do something, like no that was my one thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a it's dude I. I hear you on like the not wanting to be those dads. Everyone knows what we're talking about when we say those dads and I think that, like I'm, I'm no expert and that's actually one of the reasons I created the athlete dad is to try to answer those questions, because I suck at this. Like. So who else has got this? And I actually find for me it's like is why I want them to do this thing? Is it rooted in something that is secure? Like those dads are doing that because they are doing it because of their own insecurities, right, like they didn't achieve the success they wanted. Or like the kid's performance is wrapped in their identity. Like if my kid isn't the best kid on the team, like it reflects poorly on me, and like that's all insecure bullshit, right, and so it's like, am I pushing them? Because there's, there's something, it's rooted in something secure?
Speaker 2:And I hear you on the swimming, because I'm like no, like drowning is a real issue with kids. Like you have to learn how to swim. And like where we live's like rivers and lakes and pools. Like swimming is like dude, you're going to die if you don't know how to swim, and so it's like and the litmus test I always I got this from my wife actually too, I guess not a litmus test, but more of just like a kind of a success criteria is like don't let your kids quit on bad days.
Speaker 2:They're only allowed to quit on good days. It's like, okay, you had a shit day in the pool, you had a shit day in surfing, like dude, that happens. But you're not allowed to quit on your bad days because that's when you'll regret it and that's when you miss the benefits. So if you have a great day and you're like you know what, I just don't want to keep doing swimming, I don't enjoy it it's like cool, then you can, you're allowed to quit. So yeah, that those are two things that I'm always trying to like hold in my mind when I'm when I'm pushing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's good, but it is a. It is a minefield of knowing really how hard to push, Cause the other thing would be like honey's, like almost the complete opposite. She was a really good swimmer and she went, she did like loads of sessions a week and then and then she's got into rugby and then and she started doing, yeah, more and more sessions and but she really was wanted to do you know I mean to do that like she was very, very passionate about it, loved it um with both sports, whereas ace, I feel like often he would happily just not do anything like you really have to, like you know, know, like he'd
Speaker 1:have to just sit and watch TV, you know, or play on the Xbox, or you know, like, so it is like it's a hard to get him out. Sometimes it's hard to get him out of the house. You know, like, yeah, come on, mate. Like I don't, it's not very nice, it's like, come on, mate, it can be a mission, you know, just to get them to the clubs. Yeah, you don't want to be the pushy dad, but also you don't want to when they are 18, 19, 20, like do them to go.
Speaker 1:Why don't you just make me do that Like. You know, like you didn't push me enough, like you should have met. You know, like, so it is a fine line, I feel it is a fine line and it's and I and I'd love to know, like when I, when you look at like these super talented, really young kids, like the sky Brown, you know like she's extremely young but like super talented in multi-sports. Multi-sports skateboarding, surfing and I always wonder, like how much is that from the, the talented child? Or is it like how much has been not forced? But you know like how much has been pushed by the adult? You know the parents love to know how they did it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I, yeah. I find myself asking that too because it's like you know, I want my kids to also kind of selfishly like, like what I like, like I'd be great if they love to ski and climb and do these things. So like there's also a degree of like. How much do I push them into these specific things versus like, letting it unfold naturally?
Speaker 1:I've come up with a, I've come up with a theory on this and no matter what, no matter what what I do, I'm never going to be cool. Yeah, like, yeah. So I let that go very quickly. Like I gave Ace and Honey like both like options of surfing and skateboarding, and and I found that, um, they both got into team sports, which is something I've never, I've never watched on TV. We've never had like any sport like football or rugby on in the house, never, never have, like, just don't watch it. So Ace got into golf and football and and Honey's like obsessed with rugby and and it's all the things that I've never even and I and it's just cause, like, like, what dad does isn't cool. It doesn't matter how cool you think you are.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It is never going to be cool and I kind of embrace that because I always think as well that that cross-training of all these different sports it all feeds in and like, even for me, like you know, the sports that I do now, I never thought I'd be doing that when I was a kid, you know, as a, as a job. So, um, I kind of embrace that. You know, I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed many uh uh afternoon at the driving range and things, things. I, you know I've never really played golf in my life, getting into it just because ace is into it and um, and also taking honey to the, to the rugby and and um, and learning, learning about different, those different sports, has been really fun I'll tell you you're not alone in that of like there's.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of cool dads we've had on the, on the podcast, and they're all lame in the eyes of their own kids. They're like oh dad is so boring, like. It's such a funny dynamic of like at home you're just, you're just dad, and yeah, nothing you do is cool, so it's it's, it's reassuring it's just so embarrassing, please don't even hold my hand or don't don't even like.
Speaker 1:Just like, and I can remember, like I knew must have been about seven or eight, I caught this wave. It was like 2014 and uh, it had like huge exposure. It was all the news and everything and uh, and I was feeling like pretty high and pretty cool and I got doing the school run like about a week later after all this like global press, press stuff and and I, yeah, I was on a big high and and I come over picking Annie up and she's just like, please don't even like, don't even walk next to me. You're so embarrassing. You know what I mean. Like you're so embarrassing, you're like, don't even walk next to me. I'm like, really, am I that bad? Like I've just surfed one of the biggest waves on the planet and I'm embarrassing like what like nobody keeps you in check like your own kid yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's. I suppose it's a service to you. Know, make sure that our egos don't get too inflated. You know, I don't know there's. There's some benefit there, so yeah man for sure, awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, andrew dude, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I've loved hearing your stories, loved hearing all the lessons and, you know, really excited to continue following along on the journey. Whatever that may be next for you, uh, maybe we'll see if we can coax you to do some mountaineering and some, maybe some skiing on the way down, or you'll you'll stick with surfing, but yeah, I just want to say thanks again, man.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate the time today no, no, it's been, it's been cool, it's been cool. It's it's been a great conversation. I really actually it's made me think a lot about it and I think that's really, that's really positive. So, yeah, thank you.