WEBVTT 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:08.880 Good day and welcome to North Rawls United Methodist Church Behind the Scenes Podcast, where we sit down weekly and discuss this week's scripture and sermon. 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:10.240 My name is Kevin Van Hall. 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:12.480 I serve as the group's moderator and host. 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.000 And joining me today is our senior lead pastor here, Laura Johnson. 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:16.640 Hi, Laura. 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:18.160 Hey, glad to be here. 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:19.519 Glad to have you. 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:24.239 So last week Kevin was here and he introduced the new series that we are in. 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:26.800 It's a six-week, I believe six weeks. 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:29.280 I love you but. 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:34.399 And last week we were in Matthew and we talked about the greatest commandment. 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:35.520 I love you. 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:36.960 Well, who do you love? 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:38.000 Who's that? 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:42.960 Well, first of all, love God and then love your neighbor as yourself. 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:50.159 So it's a little bit more general, and we're going to continue with that theme, but today we're going to get a little maybe a little bit more specific. 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.479 A little, I don't know, alleyway versus the highway. 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:59.439 And uh we're going to talk, dare I say, politics. 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:01.039 Or yes or no. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:16.000 Maybe we're not going to talk politics, but we're going to talk about the subject of how politics or different ways of seeing things or believing or thinking separates us in a way that we should not let it separate us. 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:16.959 We'll say that. 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:20.719 And that's the general start of our podcast for today. 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:26.480 So I hope that didn't turn anybody off, but I wanted to give everyone a heads up of what we're going to be doing. 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:39.760 We're going to be in uh New Testament still, we're going to be in uh first Peter, and I'll have Laura explain to me what is going on that caused Peter to write this in the message that he's trying to send. 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:43.359 But before we get too farther along into it, how about a word of prayer? 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:44.159 Absolutely. 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:45.359 Let's pray. 00:01:46.000 --> 00:02:11.199 Oh Lord, as we jump into the muddy waters of discussing how politics are impacting our relationships and how your call to love others is unequivocal, we ask that you would guide us in this conversation, guide all of us in our relationships as we consider your call to love our neighbor as ourselves in light of the various ways we are divided in this world. 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:12.479 In Christ's name we pray. 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:12.960 Amen. 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:13.919 Amen. 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:16.400 So first, Peter. 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.560 We know the author is Peter, the dec uh the Apostle Peter. 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:22.719 Who is he writing this to? 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:43.680 So he's writing uh early on, probably like in the 50s or 60s, um, and he's writing to Christians who are kind of scattered throughout the diaspora, uh, like the empire, who are usually kind of in smaller groups together in a world that is turning hostile towards Christians. 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:47.360 And they were turning hostile towards Christians for a variety of reasons. 00:02:47.599 --> 00:03:02.639 Once a person became a Christian, uh, especially if they had been a Gentile, a pagan previously, that suddenly meant they no longer went to the pagan festivals, the pagan celebrations, which was the core of the communal life together. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:09.199 So they were suddenly kind of ostracizing themselves from what was expected that everyone would do. 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:16.159 And then they were also doing strange things like eating body and blood, right? 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.719 Bread and wine, but they would talk about it being Christ's body and blood. 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:24.800 And that kind of made people a little uncomfortable in the early days. 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:33.360 Um, and they just lived in ways that were very different from all of their fellow Gentiles, their fellow pagans around them. 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:40.800 They didn't practice the same kinds of ethics, they had different values, and so they just appeared very suspicious. 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:50.080 And and the big thing was that they would not worship the emperor, which was a part of the pagan culture, that you would worship the emperor. 00:03:50.240 --> 00:04:00.479 I mean, they refused to do that, and that made people very antagonistic toward them, even to the point where they eventually, under Nero, would be martyred for their faith. 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:10.159 Um, but it first started as kind of localized people would just pick on them a lot or or not do business with them or malign them, all sorts of things like that. 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:11.840 So is this a general letter? 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:20.879 Because uh so often in the New Testament, uh Paul is writing to a specific church, uh Corinth or in Ephesians. 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:23.759 Um this is just called one Peter, it's a general letter. 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:27.519 So is this just for out to be circulated? 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.839 They letters used to be sent out in circulation to the different people. 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:33.439 And you mentioned it the way. 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:38.079 They were known as the way at the time because they believed in Jesus, Jesus says I am the way. 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:40.560 So they were they were a cult. 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:41.759 That's right. 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:42.639 That's right. 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.360 They looked very odd to people. 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:50.000 Could before Christianity was mainstream, they looked very, very odd. 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:50.319 Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:51.519 A true pacifist. 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:52.079 That's right. 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:56.240 Because Roman soldiers had no problem with, we know, torturing and killing people. 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:02.959 The Jews had no problems with their genocidal acts early in the Old Testament as well, fighting evil. 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:07.920 If it was no problem at all, they would not pick up weapons. 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:09.120 They were pacifists. 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:09.759 That's correct. 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:16.399 So Marcus Aurelius talks about them in his great book, The Emperor's Handbooks, and could not understand it. 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:17.600 They were not understood. 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:18.160 That's right. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:19.759 Why how could you be pacifists? 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:20.000 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:26.000 And there was there it scripture points to the fact that they held things communally, too. 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:28.959 So they weren't capitalistic uh either. 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:30.720 They were they were very odd. 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:41.759 They looked very odd to the people who and they, of course, claimed a resurrected savior, which also is a bit odd to the average pagan. 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:42.560 Right. 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.079 So that's where we are, uh trying to set the stage in the time. 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:56.560 So this is long before the Romans uh for Constantine brings Christianity into the political realm. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:01.680 So they are outside, we talk about politics, they're outside the political realm. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:02.639 That's right. 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:09.680 And the Jewish people wanted Jesus to overthrow the Roman government and take over and be king. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:10.560 That's right. 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:15.120 And he didn't do it, couldn't understand it. 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:23.120 So they are separating themselves from the leadership role of running the company, just trying to teach people to follow this new way. 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:24.959 Very odd. 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:30.879 I could imagine at the time I try to picture myself there if if I could have been easily convinced or not. 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:31.920 That's right. 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:41.360 Because part of their claim, too, was that, and and this is part of the passage we're about to read, is that they belonged to a different kingdom that was not of this world. 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:54.639 They the the term resident aliens is one that comes from 1 Peter, this idea that Christians belong to the kingdom of God, which has not been fully made manifest on earth as it is in heaven. 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:57.360 And so we are all immigrants. 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:03.920 We are all kind of just passing through this world because our true home, our true allegiance is to the kingdom of God. 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:04.800 Excellent. 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:08.319 So that's where we are, uh set the stage, more or less. 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:12.720 First Peter, second chapter, verses uh nine and ten. 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:14.399 Laura's gonna reforce. 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:35.040 All right, Peter writes You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:39.920 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people. 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:45.839 Once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 00:07:47.199 --> 00:08:00.560 So very short um section there, but I guess Peter is trying to explain to them that now that you were part of the way, the cult, the Christian family, you are been chosen. 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:14.000 Think of yourselves again as being that royal priesthood, and you talked about the kingdom of God, versus concentrating on what's going on in the world exactly as it is today. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.360 And at that time, you just said 50, 60 A.D. 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:21.600 time period, Christians are being persecuted quite severely. 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:33.759 So Peter goes on and talks about uh ways of being submissive to uh try to prevent everyone from being completely slaughtered, but there's encouragement that he's trying to put off. 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:36.240 What is he trying to say here in these two verses? 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:41.600 Well, I think it it's a little it's a snapshot of a letter that's not very long. 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.679 You can go read it yourselves on on your own time. 00:08:45.840 --> 00:09:19.120 But I think this these two verses are a good snapshot of his thesis, and that is that we l we are we are transient in this world, and this world is gonna ask for our allegiance in lots of different ways, whether that be to our partisan views or to our favorite sports teams, or to, you know, our view of how the economy should work or whatever you want to name it, that our allegiance is being asked for in lots of different ways. 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:49.519 And Peter is telling them that the the world has is is persecuting you because you are placing your primary allegiance in the king who is not of this world, that you are belonging to a different nation, that you as Christ's body are a separate race, he says, a whole separate people that are claimed by God, and that that is your primary identity, primary allegiance above everything else. 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:55.440 And there's hope in that because no matter what happens in the world, it's not that they should disengage from the world, as he tells later. 00:09:55.519 --> 00:10:00.159 Don't disengage, but remember it's like the Lion King, right? 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:06.399 When Mufasa meets Simba in the clouds, and Mufasa's like, remember who you are, you're the true king. 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:07.279 This is that moment. 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:09.120 Peter is saying, remember who you are. 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:16.480 With all that you're experiencing, with all that could happen to you in the politics of the day, remember that you are God's chosen people. 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:17.360 Right. 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:23.120 So you're not well, we won't we won't say left or right, blue or red. 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:25.519 Let's fast forward into today. 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:34.159 The majority of people are or claim to be Christians, versus back in this time, it was a very small group of people. 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:40.320 So we as a chosen people, a lot of times people claim America is a Christian nation. 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:45.759 Actually, it was founded where there was no one single religion around it, but they people lose that. 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:46.240 That's right. 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:51.039 Where it was actually written in the Constitution to where you were free to practice whatever little religion you want. 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:55.200 They wanted to separate the religious from the leadership. 00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:01.279 Unless England is separated themselves from the Catholic Church, and the king turned around and what did ALC do? 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:02.879 He also made himself head of the church. 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.679 But everyone doesn't understand that history lesson that's going on there, King Henry VIII. 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:13.519 So he's saying you're a chosen people, but so what do you say to people today? 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:15.840 We call them Christian nationalists. 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:25.759 They almost put country, the flag, in front of God or God's moral and ethical teachings. 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:26.320 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:33.279 Well, those who who so not everyone who's a Christian nationalist will call themselves a Christian nationalist. 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:46.399 Some do, but the the distinction is that their understanding of being God's chosen people is inseparable from their understanding of their national identity. 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:52.480 And there's not just American Christian nationalists, there's there's religious nationalists everywhere in the world, right? 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:54.159 With whatever religion, whatever country. 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:55.039 Yes, exactly. 00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:03.919 But the idea is that instead of saying my primary identity is in God's kingdom, they're saying it's God's kingdom plus this place. 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:06.879 That that that is God's intention, that that is God's kingdom. 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.440 Um and that's not what Peter is saying here. 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.600 He is not saying you are God's chosen people connected with the Roman Empire, right? 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:15.600 He's saying you are God's chosen people. 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:32.080 Um and that can exist in any time and place in any in any political entity, in any sphere, in any country, that the kingdom kind of over over like I'm I'm not I'm not my words not coming to me, but the kingdom is able to exist in every single different place. 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:39.600 So we uh might attack other people for not believing the same way we do. 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:47.840 Um right now, this country is a truce, but it's been at war with another country for a different religion, worried about nuclear weapons. 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:52.399 Do you have your political views that might decide whether that's right or wrong? 00:12:52.559 --> 00:13:01.600 But then, Laura, there's moral and ethical views here to where if you're a Christian, I don't know how you can support someone that speaks of genocide. 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.399 Is that anti-Christian? 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.240 Is that anti-Christ-like? 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:08.799 So I think so. 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:14.480 I think the let me circle back to kind of the point of this sermon. 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:17.200 I love you, but I hate your politics. 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.000 We're setting up a a straw, a straw man, right? 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.679 The I love you but is a straw man. 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:22.559 There is no but. 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:24.639 We are called to love no matter what. 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:47.279 And so the idea of I love you, but I hate your politics came from Kevin and I, over the last 10 years, have known many, many, many, many people whose relationships have been strained or ruined by the political discussions they have with folks who vote differently from them. 00:13:47.759 --> 00:14:05.440 Um and I could tell you story after story of marriages, family relationships, friend groups, of of just this the divisiveness that we see in our culture bleeding into the the primary relationships that we have in our lives. 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:15.600 And so I think we have to think through like, yes, of course, there are moral and ethical convictions at stake here that are essential. 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:25.519 But the point of the sermon is not going to be getting into what my view is politically or what our church's view is politically. 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:38.960 It's going to get into how do we navigate these difficult relationships in a divided world so that we don't have to say, oh, you voted for that person. 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:43.039 Okay, you're you're evil and I don't want to be friends with you anymore, right? 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:59.200 Or or you don't you don't have to say, I'm not sure I can be a part of this friend group anymore because when you know I know that these folks believe that particular, they believe this about name whatever hot topic it is, war or abortion or whatever, right? 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:06.720 Like how do we maintain our relationships when everything feels like explosive? 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:08.399 It's against you, like in Peter. 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:09.279 So everything is against you. 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:18.159 So Peter calls you are the chosen, so he's trying to get them to be happy to celebrate that they are being the chosen people. 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:20.879 Because everyone is against them of persecuting. 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:25.120 Now, I brought up the fact of us against a different nation of a different religion. 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:34.159 You bring up the fact the inner turmoil in this country where everyone's your fellow neighbors agree and are fighting, but they're supposed to be Christians. 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:37.519 We're supposed to be celebrating that fact together. 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:40.240 However, we are not. 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:40.799 Why? 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:48.240 Well, I I I think what he's trying to say, he's trying this this passage I see is is about identity. 00:15:48.559 --> 00:16:09.039 It's about how do you understand he he's trying to help his the people he's writing to place their primary identity as God's people, not as folks who live in this town, not as folks who, you know, send their kids to that school or not, whatever, or whatever we might mark ourselves with identity. 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:12.960 He's trying to form their identity primarily as God's people. 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:30.559 Um and I think that is a key place for us to begin when we're thinking through our own relationships, especially with others who are Christians, is remembering that we may disagree immensely on certain things, but there are also certain things that we hold together. 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.080 And whether we like it or not, we are in the same family. 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.360 Um, that God has constituted us as the same family. 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:42.159 And next Sunday, we're gonna start talking about theological differences. 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:45.919 I think the topic is I love you, but how can you believe that? 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:55.519 So we'll kind of get into like how we as Christians can believe such very different things and how can we love one another in those instances? 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.600 So that's a little sneak peek for next week. 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:04.480 But the idea is that our our primary identity has to be Christian first and foremost. 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.720 And as that starting place, it informs the rest of our conversations, right? 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:10.319 Aaron Powell Okay, so starting place. 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.480 So I'm gonna be a little antagonist here. 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:13.359 It's you didn't know that. 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:14.000 That's your job. 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:15.279 That's my job here. 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.519 What happens when the people that are claiming to be Christians aren't acting very Christ-like? 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.680 I mean, come on, we have our commanders. 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.240 We know love God, love your neighbor. 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:28.880 We know even Jesus says love your enemies. 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:43.440 We know that we don't have to necessarily agree, like you say, your political views, but I bring it brought up something earlier, moral and ethics have nothing to do necessarily with politics, even though people will claim that, oh, that's a different political view. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:54.640 No, there's uh there's a difference here in uh whether you believe uh the prime interest rate should be higher or lower, you might want to throw in the trade differences, that might be political. 00:17:55.039 --> 00:18:06.240 But when it comes to waging war or attacking your own citizens or aliens that might be in your country, um, there's moral or ethic views come into place here. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.640 Are we not Paul says we're supposed to call people out, rebuke them, bring them back. 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:24.880 Are we just supposed to love them even though they're acting that way because they're family and they're fellow Christians, or are we supposed to be trying to point out that that is not the teachings of Jesus? 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:36.000 So I think what I would say is that the key to any relationship is honesty and authenticity, right? 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:36.640 Okay. 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:46.799 And I think too often the world in which we're living right now, it wants us to be divided. 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:54.880 It wants us to go to our own corners and live in anger or in fear of one another because we don't see things the same way. 00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:02.960 And that that allows for the divisions to profit the folks who want to gain power from it, right? 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:14.880 And so I think when we're looking at like a relationship level of person to person in our own lives, um the I oh gosh, I lost my train of thought. 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:16.079 What was your question? 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:23.759 So how do we how do we talk to people that are claiming to be Christians and be part of our family that are not being very Christ-like? 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:24.079 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:24.240 Okay. 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:40.400 So so I think the the challenge is that the way that we have on a person-to-person level tried to manage those differences has become too much imitating what we're seeing on TV, the divisiveness. 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:49.759 It's become a very much like, I'm right, you're wrong, and let me tell you how right I am and how wrong you are, which does not allow for an authentic and honest relationship. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:57.200 It might help you get things off your chest, but it doesn't necessarily allow for good, for good back and forth or at least understanding. 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:06.160 Um, and I think one of the challenges that we can receive from the Christian tradition is that every single one of us is made in the image of God, right? 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.960 All of us have a reason in our brains. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.839 We have reason that we can use, and we're always going to disagree on something, right? 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:22.640 Some of those things are huge, and they are huge convictions that matter a whole lot to the safety of the world, to the safety of people we love. 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.400 I mean, they're they're big things. 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:40.400 And yet the posture with which we talk to others will allow us to be able to treat someone with the respect that they are God's beloved child, made in God's image, in such a way that can at least open up for understanding. 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:50.880 I think oftentimes when I've seen things go real wrong, it's when each side has decided that they have to change the other side's mind on every single point. 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.039 And so the dial, there is no dialogue. 00:20:53.200 --> 00:21:19.519 It's just this is my view, this is my view, okay, we've done, we've set our parts, we've done what we have to do, let's clean off our hands and go to our different corners, as opposed to we're gonna we're gonna be honest and respectful of one another and try and remain in this relationship so that we can refuse to allow the whatever question of the day dictate this relationship that God is in together. 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:19.839 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:20.319 Right. 00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:23.599 Well, I mean, this is easier said than done. 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:24.160 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Absolutely. 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.000 And there's still dialogue. 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:36.079 Some people I'm right and you're wrong, or and since you're wrong or don't believe with me, you're evil, so there I have to fight you and win at all costs. 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:43.519 This win-win at all cost mentality is coming into everything from college sports to uh politics to everything else. 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:46.160 Uh, and it bleeds into our relationships. 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:46.880 It does. 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:47.279 It does. 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:48.799 So I separate myself. 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:55.039 Laura, I've I've had I I just separate I've decided to separate myself from my own mental health from these toxic people. 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.759 Instead of trying to talk to them, open dialogue, and love them, I found out that. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.279 That I can't. 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.480 They won't listen to me. 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:03.200 I'm done. 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:09.839 I'm separating myself from these toxic people, and I hope and pray that someday they can come back and see the truth. 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.440 If they ask for forgiveness, love to. 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:17.839 But until then, I cannot contain a relationship with some of these people. 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.920 Am I wrong for doing that? 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:30.799 So I think the key with this topic is that there is so much nuance, and it's there's not a one-size-fits-all answer. 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.440 I don't know the specifics of your circumstance. 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:42.000 But what I would say is, and I've seen this in my own life, if I want to be heard, I have to listen to, right? 00:22:42.799 --> 00:23:02.480 And I have learned that there are people who I disagree with who I can have respectful conversations with because I can listen to them, they can listen to me, and and there is a we there's a mutually agreed upon humanity that we're gonna see in one another. 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:08.720 And I would say that that may not always be the case for everybody, and and you know yourself better than anybody. 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:15.680 But what I but I would say is the call is to love everybody, and loving doesn't always look like being best friends with somebody, right? 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:16.079 Right. 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.599 But it does call for us to have a soft heart towards them. 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:26.480 And and however that works out in your life, you know, that's that's part of God's work in you, right? 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.319 Well, I mean, I have to say that we're all human, we're not perfect. 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.839 Um, Jesus called us to be peacemakers. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:42.079 Uh Peter goes on later in the rest of his letter asking and telling people to be submissive to the rulers and masters. 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:49.839 Um and a lot of people are like, wait a minute, we this is but then you have to remember Peter's trying to keep people alive. 00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:50.480 Yeah. 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:55.519 I mean the scriptures have to be read within their historical context, right? 00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:56.240 Right. 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:07.440 So you can understand what the part that we picked out was a chance for them to celebrate their coming into the light and gaining an understanding. 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:14.400 I could back up to a little bit before then, and uh Peter makes reference to uh Psalm 118 in verse 7. 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:27.119 So now to you who believe this stone is precious, but to those who do not believe, the stone the builders rejected has become this capstone and the stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:29.200 So not everyone is gonna believe. 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:32.000 Not everyone's gonna come over to your point of view. 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:37.279 So do we just let God cause them to stumble? 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.240 Or are we supposed to help them up? 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:45.119 I mean the people that are stumbling or falling that don't believe that they are. 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:46.319 Do they? 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:47.680 I mean, we all think we're right. 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.240 Does anybody ever want to admit wrong here? 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:51.359 That's right. 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:57.279 And I guess what I would say is I don't know if that's always the always been the case. 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:14.079 Like I feel like, at least in the Christian tradition, it has been a virtue to be humble and to admit that you don't know everything and that we don't see all the things, and that we have a limited perspective of a very fine or a very large picture, right? 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:33.119 Um and so I think that's also part of the problem of today is that we feel this pressure to have it all figured out and have our very concrete black and white answers all the time, which does not also allow us to have nuanced relationships, right? 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:34.960 Well, and we always have to have a scapegoat. 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:38.400 I mean, again, no one's ever no one ever wants to admit fault. 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:43.039 So if things aren't going perfectly your way, um God's not tripping you up. 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:50.079 It's the illegal alien that's stolen your job or the evil other political party that's caused this problem. 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:50.799 Exactly. 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.160 And it's not your fault. 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.720 And no one will look at the mirror and go, maybe it is. 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:55.680 That's right. 00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:03.920 Which is part of the the like intentional division that's happening is the more you go in your corner, you're not gonna go look in a mirror. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:06.799 You're just gonna look across the room and be like it's all their fault, right? 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:17.119 And so that's why we got to get out of our corners, or to at least occasionally, in order to not allow us to demonize folks on the other side. 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:21.599 Because they're just humans like we are, and we're all complicated, right? 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:31.519 None of us have if we any of us wrote out all of our belief systems, we would find all sorts of contradictions and all sorts of things that don't always add up because we're complicated. 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.480 People are complicated, and we forget that. 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:35.200 Yeah. 00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.880 Well, and it just makes things worse and uh trying times. 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:46.960 You don't always see well, sometimes you see the best in people, a lot of times you see the worst in people during trying times. 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:48.000 Exactly right. 00:26:48.319 --> 00:27:05.759 So we are in the middle or no, the second week now of I Love You, but Laura's gonna be preaching this Sunday on how do we deal with this political division, or how I guess I I'll ask you, how are you gonna be preaching your sermon on keeping the peace? 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:19.599 More is gonna be kind of helping us remember how to root our identity in Christ, first and foremost, but also thinking through how does this call to love everyone. 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:28.000 How does it influence the way that we re we interact with the people in our lives that see things differently than we do? 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.200 So I'm not going to be talking about any political issues. 00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:44.319 It's more of it's going to be a relational approach of Kevin and I have known lots of people throughout our ministry that have experienced great suffering in their relationships because of seeing things differently on a political level. 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:49.599 And so just thinking through how we can maybe learn from that and live a little bit differently. 00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:50.319 Okay. 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:51.039 Well, excellent. 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:57.759 I'll look forward to the sermon this uh Sunday, how you're going to solve all the problems and uh political problems in a 40-minute sermon. 00:27:58.160 --> 00:27:59.359 Yeah, exactly. 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:00.960 Good drop. 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:04.319 Let's manage our expectations here, Kevin. 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:08.240 Oh, I've got I've got high expectations, actually. 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:08.960 I I do. 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:14.720 Much better person than I can, um, and much more patience than I have. 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:16.480 I'll just admit that and say that. 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:20.720 So but I wanted to mention some upcoming things here at uh at North Raleigh. 00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:26.640 We are past Easter in the middle of April, and the end of the year will be upon us before you know it. 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.079 So, Laura, what's coming up? 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:29.680 We got a lot coming up. 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:36.640 So this Friday, of course, is our men's chicken barbecue and the women's bake sale. 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:38.319 So come enjoy that. 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:40.480 We have a mission and a meal tomorrow night. 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:46.880 So if you want to come, I think it's too late to register for dinner, but you can come and join us for the mission part of things. 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.000 So tomorrow night being Wednesday, because we're we're doing this on Tuesday. 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:53.200 Wednesday, April 15th, mission and a meal. 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:58.000 Um and then this coming Sunday, it's preschool Sunday, so we're gonna have a bunch of preschoolers singing for us. 00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.039 It's gonna be awesome. 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:00.640 Come and join us for that. 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:08.880 And then on our our following Wednesday, which was what, the 22nd, we'll we'll re-kick off our Wednesday night programming. 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:13.839 So um Tuesday with the pastors, and our Wednesday night programming will start next week. 00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:19.279 And we're gonna return to Genesis to finish it, and we're gonna talk about Joseph's story this time. 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:25.279 We'll do the code of many colors and you know, his dreams and all those, all those fun things. 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:26.640 So come and join us for that. 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:27.759 Oh, excellent. 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:35.119 And then uh May will be here in summer too, and before you know it, we'll be out on summer. 00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.440 But it feels like summer already hit 90 degrees. 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:38.480 Sure it does. 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:40.640 I don't know what happened to the rain. 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:43.440 But it April showers have not appeared. 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:45.680 Uh we'll pray for rain, everyone. 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:46.400 We need some rain. 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:47.440 We're in a drought. 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:48.079 Amen. 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.759 So and pray for our nation and for each other, I guess. 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.440 We need a little bit of patience and understanding all the way around for everybody. 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:55.839 Yep. 00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:56.880 All right. 00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.440 Well, Laura, thank you so much for being with us today. 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:00.960 Enjoy the uh podcast. 00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:04.960 I guess Kevin will be back next week as we continue on the I Love You butt. 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:10.880 So join us next week and figure out how we're still going to be loving each other after this week. 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:12.960 Talking about politics. 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:15.519 So until then, may the love of Christ be with you always. 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:17.039 So goodbye, everyone.