SPEAKER_02: Good day and welcome to North Raleigh United Methodist Church behind the scenes podcast, where we sit down weekly and discuss this week's scripture and sermon.
SPEAKER_02: My name is Kevin Van Hall.
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host and moderator, and joining me today is one of the senior pastors here at North Raleigh.
SPEAKER_02: Laura Johnson.
SPEAKER_02: Hi, Laura.
SPEAKER_00: Hey, Kevin.
SPEAKER_02: Good to have you.
SPEAKER_01: Glad to be here.
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry to hear that you are a little bit under the weather with a cold.
SPEAKER_02: So uh if everyone out there you hear her coughing, I'm not choking her.
SPEAKER_02: She's just got a cold.
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
SPEAKER_00: Pray for my healing, please.
SPEAKER_02: Uh for everyone.
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be cold season.
SPEAKER_02: School has started up.
SPEAKER_02: We're getting into the swing of things.
SPEAKER_02: The whole new year is starting in September.
SPEAKER_02: Isn't the new year starting January, Laura?
SPEAKER_02: Why are we starting anew in September?
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, it's a season of new beginnings.
SPEAKER_00: We got the season, the weather changes, school starts, summer travel slows down, people kind of get back into their normal life's rhythms.
SPEAKER_00: So it's a good time to kind of kick off the next year until summer when everyone scatters to the beach or wherever again.
SPEAKER_02: So a starting point or beginnings or however you want to say is going to be this Sunday for our church.
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
SPEAKER_02: Opportunities for uh different studies, uh, new Bible studies start back up again.
SPEAKER_02: Preschool is going to start back up again, everything's going to start back up again.
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
SPEAKER_00: And so kickoff Sunday this week in the fellowship hall, we'll have tables for all of our different classes and groups and missions and ministries you can be a part of.
SPEAKER_00: Kids in youth ministries.
SPEAKER_00: We've got a new youth choir that's going to be kicking off on Wednesday nights.
SPEAKER_00: We're excited about.
SPEAKER_00: And then our staff are working really hard on having booklets for both our ongoing groups and what as well as the ones that are exclusively offered this fall.
SPEAKER_00: So we'll have lots of material for everybody on Sunday to get a sense of where they might feel called to connect or serve this year.
SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of opportunities.
SPEAKER_02: I was talking to uh Gretchen, a lot of tables, a lot of great information.
SPEAKER_02: So please come out if you can.
SPEAKER_00: And let me clarify, I know last year I think there was only one service on this Sunday.
SPEAKER_00: We will have all three services this Sunday.
SPEAKER_00: We can't um we're we're we're getting too big to have one big service.
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have all three services, only the contemporary service is gonna be in the sanctuary so that the tables can be set up in the fellowship hall.
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for uh clarifying that, Force.
SPEAKER_02: And like you said, the tables in the fellowship hall, it's all set up for in case of inclement weather or too hot, too cold, rainy, it's perfect, no excuses.
SPEAKER_02: Come, it's in the fellowship hall.
SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna have free fancy coffees for y'all to pick from as well as donuts for everybody to eat.
SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_00: Come on and join us.
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's the invitation.
SPEAKER_02: I hope you can come out and uh join us starting new things.
SPEAKER_02: We are starting a new um series.
SPEAKER_02: Is it a series or it's on a series?
SPEAKER_00: We're doing for the next two weeks, we're gonna do more thematic.
SPEAKER_00: So this week it's here I am and thinking about how God is calling us in this next year.
SPEAKER_00: The following week, next week, will be a focus on Sabbath.
SPEAKER_00: It's Labor Day, it's a day to Labor Day weekend.
SPEAKER_00: We're remembering the the importance of rest, and so we're gonna be talking about how God calls us to rest.
SPEAKER_02: So we finished up the uh last series of small things, big impacts.
SPEAKER_02: I was talking with Kevin uh, or who do you say I am?
SPEAKER_02: And now we are here I am, similar but different, and we're gonna go backwards into Exodus, the Old Testament, some good old stories.
SPEAKER_02: And this is uh gonna be a familiar story that everyone has heard about the story of the burning bush, but we're gonna look at it from a different point of view, different perspective, try to give some insight.
SPEAKER_02: I'll ask some questions, uh, let Laura clarify a little bit as for the purpose of this podcast.
SPEAKER_02: So before we get too much farther along, how about a word of prayer?
SPEAKER_00: Let's pray.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, Lord, we thank you for this podcast and for all those who tune in and and wrestle with scripture alongside us.
SPEAKER_00: We ask that you would bless us in our conversation and in our ponderings of this famous story of Moses and the burning bush.
SPEAKER_00: We pray this in Christ's name.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
SPEAKER_02: So we're in Exodus chapter three.
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be uh verse looking at verses one through twelve, but uh set the stage for us if you could, Laura.
SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: The stage is very important to understand what's happening here.
SPEAKER_00: So um that Genesis ends with Joseph rising to power in Egypt because there's a famine in Israel, and so he brings all of his family, and the Israelites end up in Egypt where they're provided for.
SPEAKER_00: Joseph has power, things are going great.
SPEAKER_00: The book of Exodus begins generations later when um the there's a different pharaoh, and the Israelites have now been enslaved by the Egyptians, and their life is absolutely miserable.
SPEAKER_00: They're they the Egyptians are hard taskmasters, um, they mistreat the Israelites horribly, they're crying out in distress.
SPEAKER_00: And the Egyptian pharaoh at the beginning of Exodus is afraid of how many Hebrew children are being born, and so he makes a decree that all Hebrew babies need to be killed, um, especially baby boys, if I'm remembering correctly.
SPEAKER_00: And Moses is a Hebrew baby boy born to a Hebrew family, and the midwives who birth him, instead of having him killed, they sneak him away and they put him in a basket that will float on the river, and they float him up towards Pharaoh's household, where Moses the baby is discovered by Pharaoh's daughter, who then adopts Moses, the little Hebrew boy, into their family.
SPEAKER_00: So Moses is raised in the Egyptian household, raised in the Pharaoh's household, and um is great until he sees someone mistreating a Hebrew slave.
SPEAKER_00: He intervenes, he murders the person who was um treating the Hebrew slave poorly, um, and then he flees for his life.
SPEAKER_00: So here we find Moses years later, after that moment, and he has met up with um a shepherd, he's learned how to become a shepherd, and he's now a shepherd in the middle of the wilderness with his sheep.
SPEAKER_00: That's the backstory that you need to know about Moses in this moment.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so Moses is like he said, is fully grown separate life now, left the life of Egypt behind, has a wife, that's right.
SPEAKER_01: Children.
SPEAKER_02: That's right, has a family.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: And he is out tending the flock on the famous mountain when he sees something a little bit unusual, and that's where we're gonna pick it up and uh read.
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
SPEAKER_00: All right, so this is Exodus chapter three, verse one.
SPEAKER_00: Moses was taking care of the flock for his father-in-law, Jethro, Midian's priest.
SPEAKER_00: He led his flock out to the edge of the desert, and he came to God's mountain called Horeb.
SPEAKER_00: The Lord's messenger appeared to him in a flame of fire in the middle of a bush.
SPEAKER_00: Moses saw that the bush was in flames, but it didn't burn up.
SPEAKER_00: Then Moses said to himself, Let me check out this amazing sight and find out why the bush isn't burning up.
SPEAKER_00: When the Lord saw that he was coming to look, God called to him out of the bush, Moses, Moses.
SPEAKER_00: Moses said, I'm here.
SPEAKER_00: Then the Lord said, Don't come any closer.
SPEAKER_00: Take off your sandals because you are standing on holy ground.
SPEAKER_00: He continued, I am the God of your father, Abraham's God, Isaac's God, and Jacob's God.
SPEAKER_00: Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look at God.
SPEAKER_00: Then the Lord said, I've clearly seen my people oppressed in Egypt.
SPEAKER_00: I've heard their cry of injustice because of their slave masters.
SPEAKER_00: I know about their pain.
SPEAKER_00: I've come down to rescue them from the Egyptians in order to take them out of that land, and bring them to a good and broad land, a land that's full of milk and honey, a place where the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites all live.
SPEAKER_00: Now the Israelites' cries of injustice have reached me.
SPEAKER_00: I've seen just how much the Egyptians have oppressed them.
SPEAKER_00: So get going.
SPEAKER_00: I'm sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people, the Israelites, out of Egypt.
SPEAKER_00: But Moses said to God, Who am I to go to Pharaoh and to bring the Israelites out of Egypt?
SPEAKER_00: God said, I'll be with you, and this will show you that I'm the one who sent you.
SPEAKER_00: After you bring the people out of Egypt, you will come back here and worship God on this mountain.
SPEAKER_02: So that's the story we often hear about God in the burning bush and how the bush doesn't burn.
SPEAKER_02: That gets Moses' attention.
SPEAKER_02: The first thing I'll say is is in my version, it's a it's a you say a messenger of God, mine says an angel of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: Is is there in a burning bush?
SPEAKER_02: Yet it's God is the one is talking.
SPEAKER_02: So is it is it either or or which one?
SPEAKER_00: Or I well so what I've read in commentaries is the idea that when kings would have meetings with their subjects, there would always be like an intermediary to kind of facilitate that conversation.
SPEAKER_00: And so the angels kind of that symbolic intermediary, so that Moses, who is the subject, can interact with the king.
SPEAKER_00: And it's similar with the idea of taking off your sandals.
SPEAKER_00: So in in the ancient Near East, it's there's evidence that shows that when people would worship their gods, they would always go barefoot as a sign of respect.
SPEAKER_00: Similarly, um, they believe that the king in those days did not allow anyone to wear shoes around him as like a sign of subservience or humility before the king.
SPEAKER_00: And so this idea of taking off your sandals is is Moses' willingness to submit to the lordship of God.
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: So another question I have is right early in the beginning, God talking to Moses says, I've heard the cry of my people, the Israelites.
SPEAKER_02: Well, are not the Egyptians God's people too?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: That's that's a big question.
SPEAKER_00: So the story of the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible, is the story of God creating all of humanity, including the Egyptians, but selecting the Hebrew people to be the ones who are bearing the good news to the rest of the world.
SPEAKER_00: So the promised Abraham was that all of the nations would be blessed through Abraham's descendants.
SPEAKER_00: And so the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible, definitely has this idea that God has selected this particular group of people to be a special, a special people set aside in order to communicate God to the world, in order to fulfill God's calling for them in the world, in order to bless all people, even the Egyptians.
SPEAKER_00: So that's what when God says, I've heard the cries of my people, what he's saying is that he's recalling back.
SPEAKER_00: Uh-oh, I just hit the microphone.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry for that bump, people.
SPEAKER_00: He's recalling back to Genesis the promises that he made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.
SPEAKER_00: And the people who have been living in slavery and oppression are probably wondered, has God totally forgotten about me?
SPEAKER_00: Has God forgotten all about us?
SPEAKER_00: And so God is calling back to those promises and saying, You're still my people.
SPEAKER_00: I still care about you.
SPEAKER_00: I'm still with you.
SPEAKER_00: I see what's happening to you.
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to intervene and help you.
SPEAKER_02: So often uh described in the time of Genesis, beginning of Exodus, is there's multiple gods, and each god was in his own place in his own land.
SPEAKER_02: And if you went to Egypt, that was where the god, the Egyptian gods lived.
SPEAKER_02: And Israel was was where the Israelis god was, or vice versa, the Assyrians had their god.
SPEAKER_02: It almost makes it sound like I'm gonna bring you back to our land.
SPEAKER_02: Um you're my people, I'm gonna come rescue you and take you back to our land.
SPEAKER_02: Later on, Moses goes to Pharaoh and says, We have to go out into the desert and worship our God, who's back over there.
SPEAKER_02: It's not but he we don't get that sense of monotheism yet.
SPEAKER_02: It's not like I have we are gonna go out in the desert and worship God.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: It's it and it even implies that uh God even says here, I am the God of Isaac, Jacob.
SPEAKER_02: He's not even saying, I am God, even though later on he says when Moses asks, Who are you?
SPEAKER_02: Well, I am.
SPEAKER_02: I'm only there's only one God.
SPEAKER_02: It's like the way it was written so often here that history is written by the victor.
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like the Hebrews are writing this as uh we gotta make that the Egyptians to be the bad guy.
SPEAKER_02: Am I reading something into this?
SPEAKER_02: But as much as this passage, it seems like there's a separate land, we're separate gods.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, it was definitely monotheism was not the the religion of the day.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Um and they don't get it it's not until they come back to get the Ten Commandments when God says, I am God, there are no other gods, right?
SPEAKER_00: Like, so it's we see it kind of develop with the people as the scriptures are written.
SPEAKER_00: We know from Genesis 1 that God is the only God because God is the creator of all things, but it's it's you know, we see kind of the development of the people in their understanding of who God is.
SPEAKER_00: And that's what the Bible does is it helps us walk through how God revealed God's self to people throughout all of the generations.
SPEAKER_00: And so in this moment, God is revealing God's self to Moses and to the Israelites, saying, I am still the God who promised a land, a place to call home to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
SPEAKER_00: That was a big part of the promise.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and also that I will always be with you.
SPEAKER_00: So God is revealing that faithfulness to the people and to Moses in this story.
SPEAKER_00: But I but I think it's interesting that there it was definitely regionally there were different gods that people worship and culturally.
SPEAKER_00: But as the Israelites left Israel because of famine and they dispersed throughout, they took their religion with them.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and throughout scriptures, we see them in exile or in being dispersed throughout the nation and they practice wherever they are, right?
SPEAKER_00: And so there is some speculation that Jethro, who Moses marries Jethro's daughter, that they are Hebrew people, and that there's already a sacred worshiping place on this mountain where Moses meets the burning bush.
SPEAKER_00: The it's in Exodus, it's called Horeb, but scholars believe it's also the same mountain that is Sinai, that is later called Sinai.
SPEAKER_00: And so this idea that it's always been this holy mountain for the Hebrew people and that God was worshipped everywhere they went, not only in Israel, but Israel was the land that God promised to them.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's why God recalls that land flowing with milk and honey.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: And he also tells them, I heard your cries, even though you're in the land of Egypt.
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: I'm still with you.
SPEAKER_02: Wherever you still hear you.
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna I'm gonna bring you back.
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, you stayed faithful to me, continue.
SPEAKER_02: I heard your cries, we're gonna save you.
SPEAKER_02: And so Moses' response of here I am is is what I have in the NIV.
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
SPEAKER_02: Um reminds me almost of the calling of uh Samuel.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: When he hears God calling and as a child to go back and say the only words missing in it is I am your servant.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: Here I am, tell me what you want me to do.
SPEAKER_02: Except later on, Moses goes, um, are you sure about this?
SPEAKER_00: Um which a lot of call stories involve, you know, think of Jonah.
SPEAKER_00: Jonah's like, I'm not doing that.
SPEAKER_00: And think, I mean, I think Samuel has a moment too where he's like, I'm a man of unclean lips, right?
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of them have their protests.
SPEAKER_00: And so what we see here is the first call story of a prophet.
SPEAKER_00: We hadn't we haven't seen that yet in the scriptures.
SPEAKER_00: And this is the first one, and so Moses is that template of a of a call story.
SPEAKER_00: The there were a lot of people called in Genesis, but it wasn't necessarily to this prophetic task of freeing people or speaking truth to power or overcoming oppression.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so in when God calls Moses, it put Moses' name, Moses has no idea what God's about to ask him to do.
SPEAKER_00: But his his willingness to even engage with this voice from a bush that is burning and not burning up shows that he's either terrified or he has enough knowledge of his Hebrew ancestry to recognize that maybe this is God talking to him.
SPEAKER_02: Well, you say the burn, the burning bush, the bush that isn't burning but looks like it's burning.
SPEAKER_02: We were having a little discussion before the uh podcast.
SPEAKER_02: I'll I ask for you to explain a little bit that what does that represent?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So there's a couple of ways you can look at it.
SPEAKER_00: The one that is capturing my imagining imagination the most right now is the idea that the burning bush represents the Hebrew people, that they are living in this awfully oppressive situation where they're building the pyramids and they're being whipped and they have to work 12 hours a day, seven days a week, and life's just really hard for them.
SPEAKER_00: They're not giving enough food, all the things.
SPEAKER_00: And so their life is like this burning inferno of misery, but they're still growing and they're still they're having more and more babies, and they're stronger than ever.
SPEAKER_00: They're not being smooshed by the inferno of misery that they're in.
SPEAKER_00: Instead, they're finding ways to thrive in the midst of it.
SPEAKER_00: And so the idea is that the burning bush could represent the Israelites in slavery, um, and that God speaking out of the bush is this um very visual representation that God has not been distant to their suffering, but that God is with them in the midst of it, and that God is acting from within their own suffering to bring about rescue.
SPEAKER_00: So that's one that's captured my imagination as I think about a sermon.
SPEAKER_00: Another way that you can look at it is that perhaps the bush represents Moses, that a lot of times when there's prophets in the scriptures, they discuss how the calling feels a lot like a burning within them.
SPEAKER_00: Like it's this like deep burning passion or this need to speak truth to power or to um to intervene in a certain situation.
SPEAKER_00: And so perhaps the bush can represent what's happening internally to Moses as God is calling him out of his secluded shepherd life to enter back into the fray of Egypt's elite and bring about justice that he clearly was very upset about when he murdered the man to give him the power to go back and right the wrong that he'd seen.
SPEAKER_02: We uh know the rest of the story, how he goes back and uh challenges uh Pharaoh to uh let the people go, and a lot of things um happen, bad things happen to the Egyptians.
SPEAKER_02: But Moses goes through, I guess, some type of maturity because again, right at the very beginning, uh but Moses said to God in verse 11, Who am I?
SPEAKER_02: After he hears what God tells him what to do.
SPEAKER_02: At first of all, here I am, Lord, what do you want me to do?
SPEAKER_02: Uh go over here or pick somebody up or help somebody.
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, go back and challenge Pharaoh.
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wait, wait a minute.
SPEAKER_02: Then all of a sudden, reality and there's excuses.
SPEAKER_02: I don't speak well, you know, I can't do this.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: But we learn that um I guess he learns as well.
SPEAKER_02: We don't challenge God.
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you think about it from Moses' perspective, you can fully understand why he's like, Are you sure about this?
SPEAKER_00: Because think about it, Moses was he never knew who his his his parents were.
SPEAKER_00: Like his his mom became his his nurse um because his sister orchestrated that miraculously from the bushes.
SPEAKER_00: But did Moses ever really know that to be his mom?
SPEAKER_00: We don't really know.
SPEAKER_00: He like he's had such an interesting life of having being a Hebrew person while all of his people are being.
SPEAKER_00: Enslaved and he's living a life of luxury that then he has to run away from because he commits a grievous crime.
SPEAKER_00: And so he's probably afraid if he goes back, are they gonna arrest him?
SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna murder him?
SPEAKER_00: Like, is there gonna be justice for what he's done?
SPEAKER_00: Um, and who, you know, he's now a shepherd.
SPEAKER_00: Shepherds were despised by the Egyptians.
SPEAKER_00: Like they're they thought they were the worst of the worst.
SPEAKER_00: And so he's probably like, Who am I?
SPEAKER_00: I'm a shepherd.
SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna listen to anything I say.
SPEAKER_00: And so he has layers of reasons of why he's not the right person for the job.
SPEAKER_00: But what we see is that God is like, you don't get to dictate if you're the right person for the job.
SPEAKER_00: I know you're the right person for the job, and I'll make sure you have everything you need.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what we see in a lot of the scripture, the calling stories is people are like, wait a minute, I don't have what it takes.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00: Who am I?
SPEAKER_00: And God basically says, you don't get to decide if you're the right person, because I know your heart and I know your capabilities, and I know you can do this.
SPEAKER_00: And that's just a really important thing for us to think about in our own lives of there's lots of excuses we can give of why we shouldn't do X, Y, and Z.
SPEAKER_00: But if God is calling, that means that God believes you can do it.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: I you think of Moses, you think of Charleston Heston, right?
SPEAKER_02: Big strong person taking on the Pharaoh.
SPEAKER_02: You read this passage and I think of Larry David.
SPEAKER_02: I think I I think of who you want me to do what?
SPEAKER_02: I I I I I can't do that and come up with excuses.
SPEAKER_02: I've, you know, I'm not a good speaker.
SPEAKER_02: I'm just not a good choice for this.
SPEAKER_02: You know, go go get my brother Aaron.
SPEAKER_02: You know, I got it, I got flocks to attend to.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's an indication that he had a stutter.
SPEAKER_00: And like just the terror of having to go before Pharaoh with such a bold claim and have a stutter like that, you know, he had all the reasons.
SPEAKER_02: But it was obviously meant to be because he was saved as a baby, so God had a plan all along.
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think one of the phrases that is often quoted, and I don't even know who to attribute it to, but the idea that God doesn't call the equipped, God equips the called.
SPEAKER_00: So Moses did not have everything he needed at this moment in time.
SPEAKER_00: He he he had issues with speaking, he had to overcome his own insecurities.
SPEAKER_00: There's all sorts of reasons that he wasn't ready, but God knew he could do it, and God got him ready through the course of time.
SPEAKER_00: And that's the story of our lives, too.
SPEAKER_00: God doesn't call the equipped, God equips the called.
SPEAKER_02: It didn't go to the wealthy or the kings, he went to those in need.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: And I guess God can come meet us there as well.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: So this sermon on uh Sunday, all three services are going to be in the main uh sanctuary.
SPEAKER_02: Like you talked about, you'd be preaching on all three.
SPEAKER_02: And you gave us a little insight there.
SPEAKER_02: You're trying to decide um references to the burning bush or here I am.
SPEAKER_02: Are we all servants of God to be called?
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely we are.
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: Every single one of us is called, because every single one of us is gifted.
SPEAKER_00: And the the question that is always before us is how am I using my gifts in service of God?
SPEAKER_00: And am I paying attention to that burning within me?
SPEAKER_00: Whatever burning bush is within me, that God might be saying, Hey, this is where you need to, this is where you need to go, this is how you need to serve, this is the group of people you need to grow with.
SPEAKER_00: Like that, those are all callings.
SPEAKER_02: And how do you figure that out though?
SPEAKER_02: How do you know if God's calling you and what he wants of you?
SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean if a burning bush comes out and and tells me wouldn't that be nice.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it'd be obvious.
SPEAKER_02: I know then.
SPEAKER_00: I always told God or people in the early phases of me discerning a call to ministry, like it would really be nice if God would just send some stone tablets from the sky, so I knew exactly what I was supposed to do.
SPEAKER_00: Um in my experience, answering a call and discerning a call requires one step at a time.
SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes, if you're feeling a sense of call, it starts as kind of a nag, or it starts as a burning passion, or it starts as a um a thought of like maybe, maybe I could do this, maybe I should do this with a sense of excitement.
SPEAKER_00: Um and then it's not usually it's not like you God usually lays out a tenure plan like He does for Moses, like, hey, you're gonna go do this, this, and this, right?
SPEAKER_00: Umtimes, in my experience, we're just given the next step of like, hey, you feel a tug to work with children, so maybe start with our Sunday school and then see what step is next.
SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's and a lot of it I think is also trial and error of trying out something, and if it doesn't feel right, or if as you're praying through it, you're like, I don't know if this is what God is calling me to do, you try something different.
SPEAKER_02: Um I think little little trial and error though.
SPEAKER_00: I think some trial and errors is at hand.
SPEAKER_00: I I know in my own call journey, I thought I was gonna be a social worker.
SPEAKER_00: I thought I was meant to work with families in crisis.
SPEAKER_00: And I had an internship for my first summer in seminary.
SPEAKER_00: I worked at a Methodist children's home.
SPEAKER_00: And I got to shadow the social worker and I got to shadow the pastor.
SPEAKER_00: And it was through that experience of trying both things that I was like, oh no, I am definitely called to be a pastor.
SPEAKER_00: But if I hadn't tried out both of those, who knows where I would have landed.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think some of it is you've got to, you gotta put your, you gotta work up the courage to get out there and try it.
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you might sense is the call on your heart, you gotta try it.
SPEAKER_02: Leave your comfort zone.
SPEAKER_02: You gotta leave your comfort zone.
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
SPEAKER_00: And Moses is our prime example of that.
SPEAKER_00: He left a big old comfort zone to go into a big old unknown.
SPEAKER_00: Um and did a lot of good.
SPEAKER_02: Well, there you have it.
SPEAKER_02: Well, Laura, I look forward to the uh sermon this Sunday and the donuts and coffee.
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: As well, and all the fun times that we can have together as a congregation.
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully everyone out there can come out and join us.
SPEAKER_02: Uh, if not, um we'll be back next week as we continue on with our podcast and uh a new church season.
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: Coming up.
SPEAKER_02: It's be September next week.
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to believe.
SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
SPEAKER_02: I'm ready for the cooler weather.
SPEAKER_02: Football season's almost here.
SPEAKER_02: Yes, this kickoff Sunday.
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: This this week the college football starts this weekend.
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
SPEAKER_02: So hopefully we'll see you on Sunday or until then uh next week.
SPEAKER_02: So until then, may the love of Christ be with you always.
SPEAKER_02: So goodbye, everyone.
SPEAKER_01: Bye.