Podcast: Behind the Scenes: I Am...The Light of the World (John 8:12-20)

What does Jesus mean when he says, "I am the Light of the World"?

In this episode of Behind the Scenes, Rev. Laura Johnson joins Kevin Van Hall to explore John 8:12-20 and the next message in our "I Am" sermon series. Together they unpack the rich symbolism behind Jesus' words, the Festival of Tabernacles, and the dramatic exchange between Jesus and the Pharisees.

Why does John present Jesus differently than the other Gospels? What does it mean to walk in the light rather than the darkness? And how are Christians called to reflect Christ's light into the world today?

Along the way, Laura shares the historical setting of Jesus' teaching in the Temple, the significance of the great festival lamps that illuminated Jerusalem, and how Jesus' claim to be the Light of the World points to God's guidance, truth, hope, and presence.

Join us as we dig deeper into this week's scripture and prepare for Sunday worship.

Scripture: John 8:12-20
Series: I Am
Speaker: Rev. Laura Johnson

#NorthRaleighUMC #BehindTheScenesPodcast #GospelOfJohn #LightOfTheWorld #Jesus #ChristianPodcast #BibleStudy #UnitedMethodist #FaithJourney #John8 #SermonPrep #ChurchPodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Good day, and welcome to North Raleigh United Methodist Church behind the scenes podcast, where we sit down weekly to discuss this week's scripture and sermon. My name is Kevin Van Hall. I serve as your moderator joining me today as one of the uh lead pastors here at North Raleigh, Laura Johnson. Hi, Laura.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Hi, glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Glad you are here. Welcome back. We've been to tag teaming between you and Kevin as a regular basis, as you do on Sundays, is who's going to be preaching on that Sunday. You'll be preaching this Sunday on Light of the World in the series of I Ams. Last week, uh Kevin was with me and we were speaking about I am the bread of life. And you are speaking about or be preaching about light of the world. So last time I talked with Kevin, this was a series that you guys developed on your own. This wasn't necessarily written down. It was just something you guys wanted to come up with. Correct. Can you give me a little bit more feedback of uh what brought that on?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Well, I think um Jesus tells us in the Gospel of John how he like who he is in very creative but also direct ways. And the Gospel of John is sometimes called like the Maverick Gospel because it's different from all the others, and we don't read it as frequently as we read the other Gospels, Matthew, Mark, or Luke. And so we thought it'd be great to have some spend some time in John and getting the sense of how the Gospel of John teaches us who Jesus is. We are people who worship and follow Jesus as our as as his disciples. We are meant to be like him. And so we need to learn who he is, um, constantly grow in that. So that's why we're doing this.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Well, excellent. I love uh I love the Gospel of John, and it is definitely seems a lot more spiritual. And we'll even see that in today's discussion in today's passage of how everyone in the time and from the gospels want to take everything literally, and Jesus is trying to get people to think outside the box. Aaron Powell That's right. He's not having a whole lot of success doing that, is he?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Aaron Powell That's right. I I've I've been taught to throughout my studies to read to think of John as being being presented on three different levels. So there's the literal level, there's the metaphorical level of of of ways that you know Jesus is talking, and then there's the spiritual level of the deep spiritual truths that John portrays. And so whenever you're reading John, it's never face value. There's always deeper meanings behind it all. And and part of the tension in the Gospel of John is that Jesus' hearers are often only on that spiritual level, and they can't get to him to the metaphorical level, nor can they get into the deeper meanings of the spiritual level that Jesus is trying to communicate. And that's part of the challenge of reading John is to not sit in the literal level with all of the other people that are frustrating Jesus, especially that we'll see in this passage.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Exactly. So we are uh I guess talking about uh and leading into uh John chapter eight. Uh last week we were still in the same area. Uh I am the bread of life. Today I am the light of the world, and he is testifying about himself to the Pharisees, and they want to question him and grill him. They don't exactly like his answers, do they?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

No.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

So what is going on here? Why why are they uh questioning him and testing him and pushing him?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

So there's there's famous animosity in the Gospel of John, particularly with the Jewish leaders of the day. And we see it at the very beginning of the prologue when it talks about how God sent the light of the world and the people love the darkness rather than the light. So, right off the bat, we're gonna learn that there's gonna be tension between the world's power and Jesus. And here in the Gospel of John, the religious leaders are definitely representing that world's power of things need to stay exactly how it is, and Jesus is challenging a lot of their assumptions about how God works, about how the world works, and um they don't like that very much.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

No, not at all. So that's where we're going to focus our uh discussion today and the uh discussion back and forth with the Pharisees have with Jesus when he's trying to explain exactly who he is. They don't like his answers, and we'll talk about that a little bit more. But before any uh further along, how about a word of prayer?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Sure, let's pray. Oh Lord, bless us as we ponder these scriptures of yours that we might get into the deeper spiritual meanings of of how you are speaking to each one of us through these scriptures. In Christ's name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Amen. So is Jesus um at the uh tabernacle?

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Is he or at the temple when he is so the he is in Jerusalem at the temple, and it is the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles. Some Bibles say the feast of booths, and this was an annual celebration in the fall, probably around October-ish. And it celebrated the harvest originally, but it over time, um, especially as the people went through Exodus when they were enslaved, and God led them out of Egypt into freedom, and then they wandered the wilderness, and God provided for them. God led them with a pillar of fire by night, God provided quail and bread, as Kevin talked about on Sunday, um, that this festival, the festival of booths or tabernacles, celebrated God's provision and guidance in the wilderness years. And so what they would do is they would gather together at the temple as a pilgrimage. They would all come there and they would have this big week, eight-day celebration, and they would build little um booths or lean to's where they would live for that week as a memory of them living on the go in the wilderness when they were traveling with Moses, right? So they would build up these booths and they would have a week of worship and celebration. Um, and and this was all they would build the temples inside or build these little tabernacles, these booths inside the temple and also around the temple grounds. So they were kind of everywhere for this festival. And Jesus here is teaching in the court of women, which or I'm sorry, the temple treasury, which was right next to the court of women. And the court of women was a important room for the festival of the tabernacles, because what happened on the first night of the festival, they would have this big procession with candles and torches, and they had these ginormous, um, think like Olympic-sized flame candles. There were four of them that they would set up in the court of women, which was open to both men and women, right next to the temple treasury, and they would light these ginormous torches for the first night of the festival. And the the history tells us that what was written during the time period tells us that the lights from those four candles would illuminate all of Jerusalem. Like there was nowhere you could go in Jerusalem and not see these lit candles. That's how bright they were. Um, and then they would have a big old party around the candles. They would carry torches and dance and have this big celebration right next to these big giant candles that were illuminating all of Jerusalem in memory of God's illumination for them in the wilderness. And so Jesus is teaching right next to those candles during this festival of the tabernacle, so it helps kind of give you the context of what he might be trying to say in this passage.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Okay. And this passage is we are in uh chapter eight, and we are verses uh twelve through twenty.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Correct. All right. Again, Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. Then the Pharisees said to him, You are testifying on your own behalf. Your testimony is not valid. Jesus answered, Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, because I know where I have come from and where I am going. But you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards. I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is valid, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. In your law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is valid. I testify on my own behalf, and the Father who sent me testifies on my behalf. Then they said to him, Where is your father? Jesus answered, You know neither me nor my father. If you knew me, you would know my father also. He spoke these words while he was teaching in the treasury of the temple, but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

All right, so again, we talked about uh John and Jesus speaking spiritually, and the Pharisees uh don't understand, obviously don't understand when he talks about being the light, or that his who his father is, where is your father? Testimony. Back in the day, in order for it to have testimony, uh witnesses, we use that word today, you had you needed two, two witnesses, or it wasn't valid.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Right. And usually you didn't use yourself as a witness, you needed somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Two external units. Two witnesses. This is uh ancient uh this is Hebrew law. And he's being called out, saying, you can't make these claims without someone else testifying on your behalf. And he's basically saying, I don't need their testimony. He's saying I am the light of the world. So let's back up and say, Well, I am the light of life. What does he mean when he says that?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

So if you're if you are a student of the Gospel of John, you might remember the prologue, which is the first one, and we read this sometimes on Christmas. Um, and and here's how it begins In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. So here in the uh chapter eight, we we get kind of a continuation of this, and and so we get the idea from the very beginning of the Gospel of John that Jesus, this word of God, was eternally with the Father, and through him came life, everything that was created, everything that breathes, everything that also brings joy and goodness and fulfillment all comes from him. And so when Jesus says, Um, you will have the light of life if you follow me, it's kind of a callback to that first chapter of John that that he created all the good life in the world, and that when you follow him, that life also is is given to you, that that you are part of that that offering that Jesus offers.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Well, being uh giving this testimony or explanation during the time of Feast of Tabernacles with these huge candles and light is going on, you can see the symbolism there he's trying to make to get people to understand exactly what's going on in the light of the world. This is you if you lived in Israel at the time, that is your world.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

That's right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

So and all of Jerusalem is lit up. He's trying to trying to put forth that metaphor.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Well, and he's trying to this is one of those examples where he's speaking on such a deep level that people were missing it, especially his adversaries here. But he's trying to give a callback, yes, to the candles right in front of him and how they're illuminating all of Jerusalem. And he's saying, I'm not only the light of Jerusalem, I'm the light of the world. But he's also giving a callback to the people's journey in the wilderness when God provided for them miraculously and led them with this pillar of fire, that they um did not get lost, they did not get scattered, they did not get attacked because this pillar of fire was guiding them. And so Jesus is basically saying, not basically, he is insisting that he is the fulfillment of this festival of tabernacles, that he is that light, that the light, the pillar in the wilderness pointed to God. All these candle labras that are lit point to God's provision. He is that source of guidance, of light, of hope, of protection.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yes. So these references of light and Jesus are throughout John. They're not just written here. I've got a couple of verses I was going to uh read and open up for discussion because unlike the bread that sustains us, the light so often is thought about that's God is light, or that the the light is the truth.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Or the light is the way. So there are so many different ways of of looking or approaching this. So it for the reason for our podcast, we can expand on a few of these, but for your sermon on Sunday, you're are you gonna zero in on one or the other? Don't know yet?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

To be determined.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

I love it. I love it. Makes you come to church on Sunday or look online for the uh sermon as it is a work in progress.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Very much so.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

So you'd gone back to uh John uh three. I like to zip all the way back to uh John three, nineteen, where it says, This is the verdict. Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. He literally throughout is constantly calling the Pharisees out. It's evil, not light, not leading the people in the the right direction, but nothing but judging and condemning them. Uh if you read the rest of uh John uh chapter eight and nine, and you'll see how he just the banter goes back and forth between himself and the Pharisees as he tries to explain his purpose or his reason for being here, and the Pharisees just want to literally just want to stone him. That's right on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

They are so frustrated with him because he does not fit into their box.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

No, and they just want they can't they say everything he says is blasphemy, but he's saying I can't lie. So I'll not blasphemy because I and I can't lie.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

That's hard for them to understand. It's much easier for us to understand this now, 2,000 years later, or we could sit down and read this ten times and think it over and have these discussions. It could be obvious to us. That's right. I can understand how it cannot be so obvious to them.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

That's right. Well, and when you think about so the Gospel of John was the probably the last one written down. And at the time period in which it was written, the Jewish community was being cleaved in two by those who uh believed that Jesus was the Messiah and those who didn't. And there was great animosity. Think of church schisms and how ugly they get. It was like that worse because there was violence. There was, you know, we know of Paul, who he had Stephen martyred because he did not like the Christians and wanted them all to be imprisoned or dead, right? And so um the the original readers of this would have read this too and and kind of truly seen this coming in front of them. They were the ones who would have been like, well, I know Jesus is the Messiah, but I'm so frustrated by these folks who I know who just can't see it. And so it it kind of captures the experience of the modern or the early readers as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

It does. It does. They there's there's uh banter back and forth between the uh the Pharisees and Jesus, the whole testimony that they want to uh call him out on, they can't understand it spiritually. I'm wondering what the disciples are thinking when they're seeing this back and forth with the Pharisees going, I'm on Jesus' side, but I don't understand what he's saying. He's calling God the Father. That's right. So often, this is a new term for God as Father. Jesus often calls him father, but he also allows us to call him father. Our father is the prayer Jesus teaches us.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

So when he's saying it's my father, can you give testimony? I don't have to justify that to you. They don't understand who the father is at all, do they?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

No. They're like, all right, well, where is he? Bring him here. If he's gonna be your second witness, we need to lay eyes on him. And you can just see Jesus kind of shaking his head like you just don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah, you're not gonna get it. You're not gonna understand uh exactly who he is or accept it. This is the other thing we talked about. You men we just said men want to walk in darkness. They want to walk, they don't want the truth revealed, they don't want to walk in the light because they can uh maneuver and withhold and use for power against other people.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

If they keep people in the dark.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Because the light reveals everything, everything you might want to hide. The light reveals it all, right? Which can be very scary for for his adversaries here of like you know, well, as a child, I mean you go to bed, you turn off the light.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

What's under the bed? What's in the closet? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I can't see it.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

So you jump up, you turn on the light, and you want to catch it, and you could see.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

And you could see that there's nothing there. But as soon as you turn off the light, what does your mind do?

SPEAKER_01 18:31

It's back.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

It's back. I can't see it. Yep. I can't see it. So you never know. That's just is that going on today? Are are we want to be held in the dark? Do people want to keep other people in the dark?

SPEAKER_01 18:44

I mean, I mean, that's a deep question. I think it's human nature. When you I I think I think in this instance, the people who had power did not like Jesus' threat to their power and they they did not, they wanted to hold on to it. Yeah. Um, and I think that's the case with anybody who who holds a significant amount of power that you just don't want to give it up. And so unfortunately, that can lead to a lot of corruption, right? Um of deeds that might not be accepted in the light. It can be done in the darkness, right? And so you start to love the darkness more than the light.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yes. Well, and Jesus Jesus tells us that. Yeah. Jesus points it out. He tells us that right exactly that uh human nature, mankind, um, but he's the light of the world. He's come to put forth this light and this truth and the way which we'll get into uh other podcasts as the way.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, and and I think I think when we think about Jesus as the light of the world, like this can be a threatening concept to people who are afraid of being exposed, right? But I think any of us who have been moved to confession and finding forgiveness, we know that the only way to find peace and healing is by coming into the light and having the exposure and recognizing that there's forgiveness on the other side of it, right? But it's a frightening, like standing into the light of Jesus can be very frightening to some of us of like, I'm not ready for that. I'm not ready to be, you know, standing under that bright light and and having everything revealed.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Oh, it's like uh the dream of going to school uh naked or in your life. Exactly right. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

That's exactly right. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

And it's an odd feeling. We don't like it. Yeah. But you know, I guess what's in your heart or what's in your your soul or in your mind or your desires is uh it's it'll I think it's a little of both. We want to be in the light, but I don't want all of me in the light.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Because I'm scared.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I'm only gonna show certain parts of me in the light. And another thing that's interesting about this this concept of being the light of the world is that in the other gospels, Jesus tells his disciples that they are the light of the world. And so here we have Jesus saying, I am the light of the world. And then in other gospels, there's like the commissioning of like you go be the light of the world, that you go and you know, reveal God's goodness, but also don't allow the deeds of darkness to prevail.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Well, perfect. I that makes me think, and I'm gonna bring up a verse uh in um chapter 12, uh verses 35 through 36. So this is much farther into uh John's gospel. He is re-entering uh Jerusalem on the triumphal uh entry. Uh he knows his death and his time is coming. Um he's trying to explain everything to the disciples. They don't quite understand it yet. And in verse uh 35, Jesus then uh told them you're going to have the light for just a little while longer. So walk while you have the light before the darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going, but put your trust in the light while you have it, so you maybe become sons of light. So you're talking about them.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

He's trying to explain to them that they now have to take on the role of being the light.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Do we have to do that, Laura?

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Absolutely. I think of it as um as a reflection. So Jesus is the light of the world, and our job is to be so immersed or or let the light shine on us so much that it reflects off of us into the world. That that's we're meant to share Jesus in our words and our deeds and our actions and and our thoughts, all the things. And so I that's how I think of it is like when the sun hits something and shines on something else, that that's that's what we are. We are that deflector of the shun shun's the sun of Jesus shines on us and deflects out into the world.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

So we should be the moon. Yes! The moon does not emit light. So often we think the moon is shining. The moon doesn't shine, it reflects. It reflects the light of the sun.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

That's a great analogy.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

So and I just made me also think of when um Jesus was telling the disciples to love one another, to set that example so when people see you, they'll know you are Christians because you are walking in light, following the teaching, obeying the commands of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Right. It's not by what you say, it's by what you do that you are known.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Laura, great words. And um, I know you don't know where your sermon's going. There's a million different ways we could uh or we you could take this. Um but there's a million different ways we can interpret this as people out there of of just trying to be the light, of trying to spread the word and trying to act a little bit more like uh Christians instead of just saying we are Christians.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

So well, next week this series continues the I Am series with I am the gate. Kevin will be back next week.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Busy week, though, for the church next week.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

That's right. It's annual conference in Greenville. So all Methodist clergy and an equal amount of laity from Methodist churches will be gathering in Greenville to make it's a giant like three-day business meeting for the annual conference of our church. So prayers for us.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Any big things on the agenda as far as voting?

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Or you know what, Kevin? I haven't actually looked at the agenda yet.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Oh, I didn't mean to put it on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

I will before I go down there, but um it's not a big year as far as like voting for delegates that I'm aware of, because usually we receive information about that ahead of time. So I think it's just a normal year.

unknown 24:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Well, nothing wrong with uh quietful time. Here in the Methodist Church. So we want to thank everyone out there for uh listening to our podcast today. Uh we want you to come back and join us again uh next week in I Am The Gate. If you have any questions or comments or about today's podcast, you can always uh zip Laura email.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

That's correct. Please do.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

And please come out and listen to the uh sermon on Sunday. And if that's not possible, it is posted now online uh after the sermon takes place, and we also stream the services online as well. So if you're unable, if you're unable to come out, there are other ways to listen to the sermon. So until then, we're gonna sign off and say goodbye. May the love of Christ be with you always. So goodbye, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Bye.