The Construction Veteran Podcast
Welcome to the Construction Veteran Podcast. This is a podcast connecting and celebrating veterans in construction, those who have the desire to be in the industry, and those who support them to create the built environment.
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The Construction Veteran Podcast
From Army MP to Superintendent: Max Nellis's Path to Success
Max Nellis, a former Army military police officer who served in Afghanistan, reveals how he transformed his career into a thriving role as a construction superintendent. Max's journey from Washington DC to managing high-stakes construction projects is filled with unexpected twists and invaluable lessons. Listen as he recounts the challenges of finding suitable employment after his military service and how a stroke of luck led him back to the construction industry, where his determination and unique skill set found a perfect match.
We shine a light on the process of transitioning military experience into the construction field, discussing intense interview processes and the rewarding shift from hospitality to Greenfield construction. Max shares candid reflections on leadership, emphasizing that respect and cooperation on job sites are vital. Drawing parallels between the camaraderie in the military and the bonds formed in construction, Max highlights how leading by example can foster a productive and respectful work environment.
The episode also focuses on the abundant opportunities for veterans in the construction industry amid a significant labor shortage. We explore how veterans can leverage their unique strengths and discuss the importance of working for supportive employers who value their employees' well-being. Conclude with a powerful call to action for veterans interested in the construction field to seek mentorship and support, showcasing the fulfilling career paths available in this booming industry. If you're a military veteran looking to transition into construction, don't miss the insights shared by Max Nellis and the wealth of opportunities awaiting you.
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If you're a military veteran in the construction industry, or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets, and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast you can find me at constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com , or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott Friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others!
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We had about two and a half acre fire patrol base in the middle of nowhere, Afghanistan, and you have to trust the person next to you. This is the Construction Veteran Podcast. Construction Veteran Podcast Connecting and celebrating veterans in construction. Now here's your host, Scott Friend.
Speaker 2:Guys, for this latest episode I'm excited to bring to you Max Nellis, a current superintendent with a nationwide general contractor and former Army soldier serving with the military police unit. Let's dig into it, hey Max. How's it going man?
Speaker 1:It's going. How are you?
Speaker 2:Same, it's going for sure. I'm just getting off of taking my oldest to church camp and I'm I don't think I've caught up on sleep yet. So so Max and I recently worked a couple of years ago we worked at the same general contractor, national GC, just in different locations Saw that we both had a military background and he was interested in getting on the show. We've been kind of kicking the can down the road, as is the industry. So, max, tell me a little bit about where you're from and what you did in the military.
Speaker 1:So I'm originally from Washington DC. I grew up in the DC metro area, went to high school in Bethesda, joined the Army in 2007, served seven years of active duty, toured in Afghanistan in 2009. I was a US Army military police. I went from one stressful job to another, but I've been in the construction industry now for 11 years and my focus is mission-critical facilities, so I primarily do data centers and have some experience in a few other areas.
Speaker 2:Cool, so mission-critical for those who don't know. Like you said, data centers, laboratories, sometimes stuff that I guess what you could say has a very heavy MEP focus right.
Speaker 1:Very heavy MEP and these are projects in the hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. So there's. They're quite long. There's quite a lot of stress with them. Really strict schedules because clients can't make money until it's done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. And those data centers, they're measured in what like gigawatts or something crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the smaller ones are megawatts and when you get into the gigawatt factories those are usually 2,000 acre, 3,000 acre properties and they handle a large volume of data.
Speaker 2:I can't even fathom a job that big. That's crazy. So these are multi-building, sometimes multi-year projects, right.
Speaker 1:Yep, the largest one I've done is a confidential client, but it was 350 acres, a million square feet of data center space and 268 megawatts of power. That's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so a lot of those, like you said, are confidential clients, but they're, they're big names A lot of people would recognize big, big, yeah, I don't want to say conglomerate, but, yeah, big names, everybody knows. Um so, man, you had a big switch, like you said, from one stressful job to the other, but what even got you from going from military police into construction so complete?
Speaker 1:happenstance in between high school and flunking out of college because it really just was not for me. I came home and my mom said you have two weeks to find a job and in three days I hadn't found a job. So she said, great, you're coming to work for me. And I went and did residential construction for about 18 months, got tired of it and went into the military. And then, coming out, you go through ACAPERS, the Army Career and Alumni Program, and they don't feed you bad information but they feed you old information. And ACAP really did not prepare me for the civilian market. A lot of it was geared towards trying to get hired on with government agencies. I applied to over a hundred different positions on USA jobs and was told I wasn't qualified enough or I was overqualified. And I got told more often than not I was overqualified for like GS six and seven and eight jobs and I was struggling.
Speaker 1:I had been medically discharged and took the first job that came my way, just working $17 an hour for a security company and I was newly a homeowner and had a lot of bills piling up and I got onto a construction project of being a security guard for our mutual former employer and the senior superintendent and I on the job became sort of friends. We're still talk now. You know he had this PE that was following him around like a lost puppy and I said to him I said what does that guy do? And he goes. Well, he holds my pocket. You know.
Speaker 1:He learns, you know, the superintendent role for the first year that he's with the company. You know he gets paid to do it and then after that year he can choose to stay in the field or go in the office. So what does he get paid? He's like fifty two thousand dollars a year and I'm like cool, sign me up. So, complete happenstance, I never intended to go back to construction. I had no idea what I was getting myself into for sure, but I had, you know, trust in God's plan that that was what I was supposed to do and I've absolutely fallen in love with commercial construction and the general contracting side of it. So my motto is go big or go home. And I take chances and this was a chance I took and got into the program and haven't looked back since.
Speaker 2:That is a really neat story, man. I don't think I've ever talked to anybody that had something like that. So you just happened to be there. And for those people listening, man, talk to the folks on your site, the security guards because I've had people approach me too. You know, hey, what do you guys do, what's it take to get into this kind of thing? So that's neat. You're a success story in that.
Speaker 1:No, it's just I make a point to look for the qualities of a superintendent in people that aren't doing this Because, quite honestly, it doesn't take a college education to do this. It takes somebody with a willingness to learn and the drive to want to succeed, and that's really it in a nutshell. You can learn construction. You can learn how to build a box. That is not hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and I think in our role too, it's more people, leadership and management and scheduling and safety and quality. I might be a tradesman, I'm a carpenter by trade, but at the same time I'm not. I'm not swinging the hammer anymore, I'm just making sure everybody plays nice in the sandbox.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we're a little too old to be swinging hammers. Yeah, that's true, I'll agree with that.
Speaker 2:But and I do like our uh, our former employer man. I do like that program that they had, that somebody could be green, as could be, but they forced them to go into the field for a year because, even if they wanted to be a PM, that they kind of forced them to learn the field side, to understand what the superintendent's going through.
Speaker 1:I did like that Exactly. I mean, you know 99% of those guys end up, you know, going in the office because they, you know they want to sit at a desk and dress nice. But you know, I, I really love being in the field. You know I'll, I'll complain, you know about, you know the stress and whatnot, and some, you know my wife will remind me that I chose this um and that I thrive on it. And you know, to quit your whining.
Speaker 2:It doesn't help, but we're going to do it anyway. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to back up. You said so when you left school. Your mom was in the residential side of the business, so what did she do?
Speaker 1:So my mom was actually an office manager for one of the top REMAX agents in Northern Virginia and at the time he had partnered with a classy builder in Nova doing custom homes. So I got on I don't know if you remember the name, but Clinton Portis, the formerly of the Washington Redskins, helped build his house Pretty much like million dollar homes and above. So I kind of early on got to see what high quality is supposed to be. Yeah, she didn't really give me much of a choice, so I jumped right into it and started off as a laborer and worked my way up to carpenters foreman and did a lot of drywall and, you know, manage the closeout of a lot of probably three or four dozen custom homes.
Speaker 2:Oh cool. So I bet you use some of that, that skill, today, just kind of understanding how things get built together and who needs to go first.
Speaker 1:You know. So when I have interns which you know, every summer we get lots of fun interns I try to describe building. You build anything like you do a drywall. You know metal stud wall right, it has to start somewhere, right, it starts with the slab and then it starts with track and then you got to put the studs in. Everything that we do is exactly the same right when you're. Mostly what I do is greenfield construction. So the last seven years I've specialized in campus builds. So you know ground up. You know one of the one of the projects I've done recently. You know you had to take down a bunch of trees and we have to grub all that. You know you have to dig out the foundations and all that process is exactly the same If you apply it to a wall. You have to start with the ground and work your way up is exactly the same If you apply it to a wall.
Speaker 2:You have to start with the ground and work your way up. My, my former assistants or PEs will know where I'm going with this Cause. I train the guys that don't have much exposure to like a schedule. Uh, I say I'll give you 20 minutes and I want you to build me a house on paper. Tell me what it takes, and just to get them in that mindset of scheduling, because nine times out of 10, it'll be well, you pour the concrete and then you put up the studs and I go whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2:What about? How are you going to get water to that house? How are you going to get power to that house? And getting them in the mindset of just general scheduling, because people don't think about that, the general public of what does it take to put in the stuff to, to, uh, to power that television on your wall? How do you get the power there? How? How do you get the power there? How do you get the power from the city? And so you get them in that big picture standpoint of oh, okay, okay, I get it. It's kind of breaking down that 101.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I mean, if you really want to get their brains twisted, bring in lean construction and last planner system. Oh yeah, have them work from the shingles down and work backwards. I've actually really found a way to become very passionate about lean construction.
Speaker 2:I see a lot of value. Yeah, I can remember first hearing the term when I was first at that employer, when I first got out of the service up in DC and I had a PM talking about lean and I'm like, is this guy talking about it? It was just kind of a buzzword back then. This is 2011 when he said it to me, but it's really gained a lot of traction and something I'm very passionate about too, and I had always had that mindset. When I open my drawings for a new project, I build backwards in my head, and that wasn't intentional. It's just the way my brain works of. Okay, I've got an AV package on the wall, where am I pulling power from? And I work my way backwards, so I know what I had to do first and it's. I see the industry going that way and I think it's really helped. Instead of the push planning, if you will, it's more pull planning.
Speaker 1:I think my greatest success is I had a project in Iowa where we applied lean during the pre-construction phase and from the, the previous project, which is a mirror image of the first project, we knocked off eight weeks complete on the schedule and we had yeah, we had six percent rework and then the average I think in the industry is about 30 percent of warranty or going back. So we took the upside down pyramid right, so you have safety as the absolute priority over everything. If you have safety, quality will fall in line, schedule falls in line and then cost falls. And going with that method, I mean we saved the owner millions of dollars in change orders and, you know, rework and everything else. It's truly remarkable what that program can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's money out of the company's pocket when you're going back and having to fix that work that maybe you screwed up. So you're not doing that on their the client's dime, you're doing that on your dime.
Speaker 1:Right, and then the likelihood of them wanting you to come back and work for them again also goes down. You know, and you want 80% of your work to be, you know, previous clients and the hours it's going to take to fix that.
Speaker 2:And then, like you said, when you've got an occupied facility, it just makes things that much harder to get back in, because now you're doing night work or overtime work when we could have just done it the right way the first time, absolutely 100%. So I'm going to back up again. So you were security on the site. You ended up linking up with a senior super.
Speaker 2:Obviously, this guy had, you know, a mentality that you liked, seemed like he was a good leader. Sounds like you guys are still buds. But what was it about the industry that you said, all right, this is something I can see myself being successful in and I want to do this other than the money, I should say, because that was a big pay bump.
Speaker 1:The money. The money was a huge motivator from $17 an hour to 52,000. I thought I was living large, honestly, when I walked in for my interview. Our prior organization had an eight hour interview process to be a PE Yep, and you went in, you had breakfast, you were there in a suit and tie, so you're eating and trying not to get it all over yourself, you know. And then you know you go and you have conversations with some of the senior project managers and VPs and then you go on a sidewalk and you come back. I mean it's like a whole thing, right.
Speaker 1:But the one thing I noticed was that company built their own office from the ground up and it was stunning. It's beautiful inside that office Italian marble, brazilian wood on the walls, hidden speakers in the driveway. I mean all kinds of really cool stuff. In my mind I was like, okay, I really want to do this, this is really cool. And then they stuck me in hospitality doing lipstick jobs at hotels. But I got an opportunity about a year and some change into working for them to go travel and build a data center in Washington State and I jumped on that. I heard per diem and I'm like, sweet, that's an extra thousand dollars a week, I'll take it and, um you know, got out there and I got my first taste of Greenfield construction and I it was like crack, I was addicted. I absolutely love this job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's a that's a big shift man. So I'm shocked to, coming from the service of the background and military police, I mean outside of the police work you've got a lot of organizational skills, leadership skills that you brought to the table. So the fact that you weren't able to find work, that speaks to what a lot of people are going through today just trying to find a job anything. So if you had somebody transitioning, would you suggest the construction? Let me back up. Why would you suggest this industry to somebody that's transitioning? Maybe they have an MP role or they're a cook or anything. What do you think would appeal to them about this industry?
Speaker 1:So the biggest thing for me coming out of the military and going to work for a security company is that it wasn't a brotherhood, it wasn't a family, and whether it was our previous employer or my current employer, it's people first, but we're all one big you know family and I really miss that. Especially like after deploying, and you know I was on an outpost with 29 other people. That was it. We had about two and a half acre fire patrol base in the middle of nowhere, afghanistan, and you have to trust the person next to you, right, you get hurt, they got to pull your rear end out.
Speaker 1:This is the same thing in this industry and everybody out here is is, you know, in the same kind of fraternity that I felt I had in the military. I mean, I come to work and joke, joke around with everybody, almost, you know, a little bit more professional, but almost the same way we did in the army and you know that's a huge driver for me. I haven't found that anywhere else, any other industry. You know I could have gone back and been in law enforcement. You know, personally I got I kind of got tired of being a part of everybody's worst day and out here I get to build something with amazing people that put in ungodly amount of hours to provide a high quality on time. You know project. So that's really what it is. For me, it's the family aspect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no wonder he fell in love with that Greenfield job too. You guys were out there by yourselves having to defend on one another. I'm sure it was a little difficult to get supplies and everything where you were Same thing like it was out on a cop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So back to your service days. Are there things that you can pinpoint from your time in the army that have helped you tremendously in what you're doing right now as a superintendent tremendously in what you're doing right now as a superintendent 100%.
Speaker 1:My biggest lesson learned from the army was learning what kind of leader I didn't want to be, and you know I'm sure you can attest that not every leader in the military is a good one, right? The guy that stands around and screams and yell, and you know you. Just, you do it because you want them to stop. You know yelling, but you don't respect them and I didn't want to be that guy. And I actually learned that lesson the hard way. At my, you know, my first duty station.
Speaker 1:I got thrown into being a team leader really quick and I'd only had, you know, squad leaders and team leaders that screamed and yelled and talked a lot of smack and I didn't know that there was another way of leading and I take being a superintendent in the same stroke. I want these people to come to work every day and want to work with me and form, so you can't go out into the field right out here and onto a job site after you've done yelled and screamed that you're at the you know the subcontractor superintendent and called him names or her names or whatever, and then expect them to do you favors. Out there there's a lot of horse trading that goes on in this industry from the GC side the subs and I think that any one of them is going to want to work with us. If we're a jerk, no way. So I learned very quickly to put people first above myself, which is what a good non-commissioned officer does, and I applied that to being a superintendent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think we see the same thing in the industry. Sometimes too are the guys that yell and scream and people will get the stuff done just because they have to and they're contractually obligated to get that done. But it's you know, nobody wants to do favors, nobody wants to help that guy out when he's in need, and I've I've worked under some of those people before too, but the guys I respected the most in the service and out was the guys that really put their, their stuff aside and said all right, what can I do to help you?
Speaker 1:Yep, my thing is always to my foreman and superintendents is if you've lost that drive to want to come to work, that excitement, we have a problem and we need to find out what that is and we need to change something so that you have that feeling every day that you come to work right. I want to feel that way every way, every day that I come right. So why wouldn't I want? You know I'm not going to call them subordinates, but you know the people that work for me. Why wouldn't I want the same thing for them?
Speaker 2:yeah, 100 agreed. Yeah, and I've shared. Before. I had a guy I worked with that you, he was a superior, not not a vet, whether that, that doesn't matter either way but I had some personal stuff going on and said hey, you know, I got this going on. It's kind of weighing on me. And his response was well, that's, that's home life, we don't care about that. Here I'm like God, okay. Well, I don't want to help you way of being.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, you get a heck of a lot more bees with honey than you do vinegar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it ties into the safety aspect, because you can tell when guys are just beat down or they got something personal going on. Hey man, maybe you can be tasked with something else, because I don't want them getting hurt.
Speaker 1:I don't want them getting other people hurt because their mind's not on the job. No, 100%, I mean so. And you know we just went through mental health awareness month and men's health, mental health awareness month, and I reiterate it all the time year round. Outside of that, I just I literally it's funny that you say that but literally this morning, at our stretch and flex, talked about this exact same thing. Right, I don't.
Speaker 1:These guys don't know me from. You know Joe down the street, and I don't really know them, but my phone is always on, I am always available. And the mental health aspect especially I mean especially in the construction industry. This is high stress, high drive industry and you know when you're a laborer or you're a carpenter or you're an electrician or you're a plumber, that's a lot of stress, it's a lot of work, it's a lot on your body and your mind. And then you know you get a phone call that you didn't want to get a phone. You know get in the middle of the day and now you're even more stressed out. I personally make myself completely available to everybody on site at any time, for any reason, don't care what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Good for you, man. That's good leadership, so take me along your journey. So you got out, you got medical medically discharged, found your way into security, and then the industry. If you could tell your younger self, uh, something to change along the route, what do you think that might be, if anything?
Speaker 1:Quit smoking and drinking.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's fair. Yep Agreed.
Speaker 1:But I would, if I had to say something to my 20-something adult self, I'd probably stress financial independence. You know, getting out of the military I did not take that seriously and, to be honest with you, you know I chose a very dangerous job in the military behind. You know infantry, you know at home you're dealing with everybody's worst day and when you're deployed, you're training people like the Afghan National Police that don't want to be trained by you. When you're doing all of this, you're not thinking about saving, you're not thinking about investing, you're not thinking about financial independence.
Speaker 1:And one of the problems being in the military is everybody's like oh, you have a guaranteed paycheck, no problem, we'll give you credit. You have a guaranteed paycheck, no problem, we'll give you credit. So you know you, you rack up, you know car bills and credit cards and all this stuff, and nobody really prepares you to say, hey, you're going to have to pay that back one day. And that was really a struggle for me coming out of the military and into the private sector and realizing, oh my God, how am I going to pay for all this? So definitely financial training. And get somebody like you know, a JP Morgan chase or Liberty mutual or something like that, to be able to guide you in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's so many programs that are free. While you're in, too, the military didn't do any favors either, though while you're transitioning back, you're redeploying, and they got those signs of tax-free. Harley Davidson, you know, buy your motorcycle and you get that extra payment, the hazard duty pay.
Speaker 2:I remember coming back and buying a brand new guitar and computer and that shiny stuff that I wanted, not thinking I knew nothing about investing my money, unless you've got a good NCO over you. I mean, you're just going to blow it Like you said. That was my mentality. I got that guaranteed paycheck, I'm going to get the nicest truck, and I think the same thing happens in the field with a lot of these new apprentices and journeymen. They make that fat paycheck and they go oh man, I'm going to get that jacked up diesel. Well, okay, but you might have a family someday. You should start thinking about do you really need that truck, or can you get by with that old jalopy for a while?
Speaker 1:Well, and to be perfectly honest with you, I reenlisted while you're downrange for six years for $6,000 so that I could pay off a stupid boat that I bought Yep, pretty dumb. But nobody told me, as a newly promoted E4 at the time, that buying a boat was a bad idea. All they wanted to do is say hey, can we go fishing on your boat?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's always best to have a friend with a boat, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Well, um, so we've got. This industry has a boatload no pun intended of vets in it. Um, I mean, I meet them all the time and it's really cool to share stories, um, but, like you kind of alluded to earlier, there's a lot of work that we got to put in to get the projects built. There's very, very long hours sometimes and it's I mean, I'll be totally honest, I did a few weeks or a couple of weeks straight of work here recently and my boss could tell I was getting burned out. He told me take five days off right now. And I really appreciate that that doesn't happen all the time, because some guys it's just like well, suck it up. You know, you got to put your time in and I've been putting my time in for well over a decade. So if you've got guys out there listening to the show that are getting to that point that maybe they don't have that leadership to support them, what would you try to say to them to encourage them?
Speaker 1:It's a lot easier to find a job when you have a job no touche. You know my annual review. It was a pretty status quo annual review. I thought I did a heck of a lot better job than what they were saying and I was just, I was done. I'd finally hit my breaking point with the leadership that I had. Who wasn't taking care of me? I've went out and sought a company that puts people first, truly, truly, truly. That is the first line of their mission statement. They put people first. I love who I work for. Now. I've been with this company for two and a half years now and you know I've had some pretty big health scares over the last year and a half and they took care of me. I didn't have to worry about my bills. I didn't have to stress I mean, you're always going to stress, but they really took care of me and they held up their end of the bargain. I'm giving it back now.
Speaker 2:I used to think that that was rare, maybe because I was in a position where I wasn't being taken care of for a while. But I do see that a lot more nowadays, and maybe that's just because of the generational shift, of the new leadership coming in, realizing people do need to come first, Like where I'm at now. They've really, they have really taken an interest into my personal life, Like recently my kids have gotten pretty sick or we had ER visits and whatnot, and they're constantly checking on me How's your kid? Or that's like the first thing they asked me. When I walk in the trailer, How's your daughter doing? Oh well, okay, Good morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I walk in the trailer, how's your daughter doing? Oh well, okay, Good morning. Yes, she's good. And then we kind of get into work. But that to me is kind of shocking and appreciated that they would ask about like, how are you doing today? Not you know, are you ready for the day? How are you personally? And that means a lot to me personally and that, uh, that that makes me want to give back even more.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, to give back even more Absolutely, and that's that's the way I feel here. I mean, I'm part of a team and they, uh, they take care of each other. And you know I don't know about you, but, um, you know, being a superintendent and going away for, you know, more than a couple of days, you get still a little bit anxious about, you know, the work that you're leaving behind. I'm going on vacation for a week and a half, starting tomorrow. I am not worried. I know my team's got my back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it says a lot about your team for sure, and I I think that helps when you got big teams. I'm fortunate to have a big team as well, and knowing that somebody is going to backfill my role if I take off.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, but you know not everything is perfect and peachy.
Speaker 2:There are companies out there and teams within good companies, that people are kind of out for themselves. So I'm not I'm not telling people out there that it's all like that. I just I think it's a lot more common than I used to think, is all I'm saying.
Speaker 1:There's a huge shift in the industry right now and we are short. Oh now, and we are short. What was it about? 3 million construction jobs in the country right now. Right, so we're short on electricians, we're short on plumbers, we're short on mechanics, we're short on drywallers, concrete guys, excavator operators we're short on everything. And, funny enough, we're short on the management side. Right, so there's so much work right now, and there has been for about the last 10 years, and it doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon.
Speaker 1:You know, even during COVID, there was a ton of mission critical work, hospital work, pharmaceutical work going on, big jobs. And you know we still can't find, you know, even semi-qualified people to fill those roles. You know we're going out and begging for people to come. You know, work for us, and it's not just my company, it's every company across the board. I mean, I get I don't know six to ten emails a week about, hey, you thinking about jumping ship, you want to move down to Indiana or wherever. I mean you know they're out there. There's a ton of work.
Speaker 1:And for the guys coming out of the military, I don't care if you're private specialist, you know E5 and above, there is a place for you in this industry. Especially, military guys are highly sought after for the construction industry because of a couple of things. Right, they generally show up on time. They're very good at, you know, taking the list and running with it and running it down and getting it done. All right, they're in there, they're. They're impatient about letting things slide, they're.
Speaker 1:You know, if there's a uniform, they're in it. Right, you don't have to remind the military guys on site to put their gloves on, they just do it. It's a mentality that we have as military, and bringing that to the civilian world, those are just old habits that die hard. That's true. If there's anybody listening to this that's thinking about joining the industry and you're coming out of the military, you're in that transition period. Now, even if you have never been a carpenter in your life, you've never been an electrician in your life or you want to be in management, take that leap, absolutely take that leap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think and I'm kind of thinking back to my younger self getting out I know during my transition people didn't talk about construction much. I hope that's changed, but I think there was a scare. Oh, 100%. Yeah, and, like you said, the industry's changing for the better. I think there's this mentality and this is just my belief that, oh, there's no money in it, but man, there's guys living very, very, very well in the industry, and even new guys, yeah, like guys a couple of years in.
Speaker 1:If you're a union electrician anywhere in this country as a journeyman, you're making over 100 grand a year. I mean that and that's probably you know, with a little bit of overtime thrown in there. But I mean I have not been on a any construction job in the last 10 years that wasn't 10 hours a day, five days a week or six days a week. Yeah, the money's there.
Speaker 2:I can remember I was in El Paso doing a job and we had a guy who was a carpenter foreman talking about putting his kids through college, like paying for their college, not having to take out loans for them. He was living decent, well above middle class. Now, granted, he was an older guy, but you see that with guys in their 20s We've got foremen at our company that are taking care of their families. Wives aren't working Um, they're not working insane over time, and the overtime is there if they want it. So, if you know, christmas is coming up and they want to buy gifts for the kids. The overtime is always there for the guys that want it for sure. So I've met guys that are are single and work as many hours as they possibly can and they're buying boats, cash, like you said, or RVs, or their toys, and they're doing just fine, buying all the tours before they get married. So once they do, they have that cash for the house and everything. So the money's absolutely there.
Speaker 2:And um, opportunities uh, there's a lot of runway there, I should say, to opportunities for growth in this industry. I've met personally plenty of CEOs or presidents of companies that came from being a laborer pushing a broom and, like you said, it doesn't always require the college degree. Maybe some companies do when you get to that C-suite if they're fairly large, but that's not always the case. I mean our old employer actually great example, one of our, who he just retired, but one of our former co-presidents. He was kind of like a mentor to me when I was up there in the DC area and he had told me get as many certifications and learn as much as you possibly can before you even consider getting higher education. And this guy did not have a college degree and was running a multi-billion dollar company.
Speaker 1:We'll call him JB. I was very, very close with him and he was a mentor of mine at that company and was thrilled to hear that he was finally retiring. It's well-deserved, and you know he was a CB.
Speaker 2:So you know he, of course. Of course I latched onto him real quick.
Speaker 1:Exactly. All right, I won't hold the Navy thing against you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was never on a boat, if that helps.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure it does, that's okay, I mean he he's a great example among so many people that have gone through that. Or you know, every day we meet these presidents of the trade contractors and the trade contractors man. They make a lot more money than us. When they start moving up the chain. Their profit margin is a lot better than the general contract inside. So if there's people that are interested in getting into the industry and starting a company, I would encourage people that are in their early 20s that did a tour or two. If you've got a skill, or even if you don't. I've met plenty of presidents of companies that maybe don't have that specific trade but have a great team around them but know the organization, know the business side, and these guys are doing very well for themselves. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And these guys are doing very well for themselves. Yeah, Now, I mean, I can't stress enough how easily it is to make a you hear it on the news all the time a living wage, a living wage. Well, there's a difference between a barista and somebody who builds a multi-billion dollar structure, right? The guys that are up in the lifts putting steel up, pouring concrete, these are the people that build America.
Speaker 1:If you want to be a part of something really great build America. It's not complicated, you get great pay. You get to build something that's going to provide for your family and you and you know hundreds of other people, so why not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's always fun to drive past with your kids going. Dad built that.
Speaker 1:Yep exactly.
Speaker 2:Well, cool. Well, man, you segued right into my last question, so that was perfect, trying to get people in the industry. So you got any closing thoughts here, max?
Speaker 1:before we wrap up, yeah, if you need a job, give me a call, yeah.
Speaker 2:I will be sure to tag you man. Like you said, we're. We're always looking for good people all across the U? S, especially around, like, major metropolitan areas. It's just it's not slowing down anytime soon.
Speaker 1:No, is, it's just, it's not slowing down anytime soon. No, I'm, I'm down, uh. I moved to charleston, uh, four years ago. I'm not looking back, but there is an incredible amount of work down here, uh, both in mission critical and car manufacturing. It's just, it's, it's crazy, the things that are happening down here. Um, so if you're out there and you're and you're thinking, you know you might want to make a move and and try something new. Join the construction industry, because you're not going to regret it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I speak for you and a lot of us that the onus is on the person to reach out. But we're more than willing to help. But you got to take the first step.
Speaker 1:I will take every minute out of my day to help another veteran. So, um, definitely, uh put my LinkedIn on there and be happy to talk to anybody who has any questions. Uh about about this at all, whatever it is Very cool, man.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you taking your minutes out to chat with me, Max.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's great to finally connect again with you All, right, brother. All right, thanks a lot.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, thank you. All right, brother, all right, thanks a lot. Yes, sir, thank you. If you're a military veteran in the construction industry or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, you can find me at construction vet podcast at gmailcom, or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others.
