The Construction Veteran Podcast
Welcome to the Construction Veteran Podcast. This is a podcast connecting and celebrating veterans in construction, those who have the desire to be in the industry, and those who support them to create the built environment.
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The Construction Veteran Podcast
From Special Forces to Construction Consultant: Bill McDonald's Journey of Resilience and Leadership
What does it take to redefine success after three decades in military service? Join us for an inspiring conversation with Bill McDonald, an Army Special Operations veteran who transitioned from a 31-year career to find new purpose in the construction industry. Bill offers a candid look at his diverse roles as a Special Forces medic, engineer, and civil affairs officer, highlighting the critical yet often overlooked field of civil affairs. His insights into building trust and rapport provide a fresh perspective on leadership, illustrating how skills honed in the military can seamlessly transition to civilian life.
Bill's story doesn't stop at his military achievements; it extends into a transformative journey of personal growth and resilience. After facing a significant injury, Bill navigated the challenges of reshaping his career and personal identity. He shares how military strategies like backward planning and lean construction consulting have been pivotal in his civilian success, emphasizing the importance of being comfortable with discomfort as a growth strategy. His openness about seeking help for mental health challenges shatters stereotypes and encourages others to redefine masculinity and character, prioritizing integrity and courage over physical prowess.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the power of adaptability and effective communication, both in professional settings and personal relationships. Bill expands on the concept of PACE (Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency) to enhance connection and empathy beyond military applications. This episode is a compelling testament to the enduring qualities of leadership and resilience that transcend professions, offering inspiration and practical tools for veterans and anyone seeking personal and professional development. Bill's journey is a beacon for those ready to embrace change and forge new paths after service.
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If you're a military veteran in the construction industry, or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets, and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast you can find me at constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com , or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott Friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others!
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being a man. It's not based upon how fast you run, how strong you are, how well you can shoot. It's based on your character this is the construction veteran podcast, connecting and celebrating veterans in construction now. Now, here's your host, scott Friend.
Speaker 2:After a long and much needed break. I'm Scott Friend. Welcome back to the Construction Veteran. I'm excited to bring to you guys Bill McDonald, a tenured Army Special Operations soldier. Let's dig into it, hey, bill. How are you sir?
Speaker 1:I'm awesome Scott, Happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Awesome. I love it, man, starting off with the motivation. So Bill and I have a mutual contact in the industry and he felt like Bill would be a good guest on the show and I've gotten to know him a little bit over email and prior to recording the show, and I'm excited to bring your story to everybody. So I want to talk real quick, bill, where are you from, and tell me a little bit about your service background.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I'm going to caveat this by saying I'm not necessarily proud of where I'm from per uh, cause it's changed a lot, but I'm from California originally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, no, yeah, we're cutting the recording now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a beautiful state man. It's. Uh, there's just the state itself. Top topography is beautiful, but it's changed so much that, uh, I don't live there anymore and, uh, neither is my family. Um's, you know, it was nice, well, while we were there.
Speaker 1:As far as my service background, you know I am I spent 31 years in the military, 20 years enlisted and 11 years as an officer, and I checked almost every block in those 31 years I I was enlisted, started out as an e1 I to E-8, transitioned over to be an officer direct commissioned, and then I got out as a major and I was spent some time active duty, some time in the Guard and some time in the Reserves and I was a Special Forces qualified soldier.
Speaker 1:I was an 18 Delta and an 18 Charlie. 18 Delta is a Special Forces medic and 18 Charlie is a Special Forces engineer and I crossed over and I was a civil affairs officer and that's what I retired at. I do have several other MOSs in there, specialties. Those are the primary ones and, yeah, it was great initially just to throw this out there for those people that are in the reserve components. When I first went in the reserves or the guard, you know I had certain assumptions about it, but I am very glad that I was able to experience the reserves and the guard because it actually allowed me to understand how those military members can compliment what active duty does and the value that they have and it can. It's often underestimated and misunderstood, so I'm thankful for that experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very cool. You're actually the second civil affairs major I've had on. I had Ryan Brents on. I don't know if if that name rings a bell or if you guys ever ran across each other, but I had him on as a guest last year. So very unique community. That um isn't talked about too much in in uh outside of special operations, so it's a. It's a neat role, can you? Can you? A lot of people know about what SF is, but can you talk to me about what civil affairs is? Real quick?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's interesting because most people they, um, they talk smack about civil affairs Like they don't really understand what a civil affairs officer does. But civil affairs they're really masters at building rapport and establishing trust and so you know, they go in and and it used to be, uh, back in the nineties and before that, where civil affairs teams were made up of special forces guys. It was a rotation when you left the team just to take a break for a little bit you'd go into a special forces team and then they took them away and then they transitioned to where it's civil affairs. They split it in half and it's some for special forces and some for the regular army component.
Speaker 1:But I always tell people, you know, if you want to go into business or international relations or you just want to understand people and you want to be a good leader and manager, civil affairs officer is a way to go because you're constantly interacting with local nationals, people of high positions in the government, in both the United States government if you go on certain missions as well as foreign governments. It's very unique. But, man, does it really help develop some personal skills? Yeah, very cool man, does it really help develop some personal?
Speaker 2:skills. Yeah, very cool, um, and so let's let's talk about what you're doing now. Man, you've only been out um of the reserves Correct me if I'm wrong since 2022. Is that right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, January 18th 2022.
Speaker 2:Very cool, and when did you transition off active duty?
Speaker 1:Uh, the last time I transitioned off of active duty was 2006 actually.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that was straight to the guard after that. Yes, very cool. So, man, you did. You're like the renaissance man in special operations, for sure You've had. You're like the Renaissance man in special operations, for sure. Yeah, did you. So when you transitioned off active duty, we'll get into what you're doing now. But did you get into your current role after that, or did you kind of bounce around and do a couple different things?
Speaker 1:No, I did what a lot of special operations guys did. I did some contracting and actually, um, my active duty and guard time went back and forth, so, um, because I originally got out in 2001 and then went back in and then got out. So what I did initially, when I got off of active duty in my first contracting job, was I was the co-director of the Afghan Secret Service. I mean, I'm sorry, I was on the personal protection detail for Karzai Hamid Karzai, he's the guy we put into power in 2001. And I was on that detail. And then I later became the co-director of his secret service. I was, uh, appointed by the state department very interesting um gig. And then, uh, when I came back home, I pursued.
Speaker 1:My other passion was his health, health and fitness. I used to train athletes for living in San Diego, and then I got hurt, and that's a whole other story and then I went to, so I couldn't train athletes because I used to train with my athletes, which is a little different. I didn't tell them what to do, I did everything with them. So in San Diego I trained triathletes and I trained marathon runners and some crossfitters and some corporate executives, and then I got hurt and I had some malpractice. It was done to me and rendered me a. I was classified as an amputee there's a story behind that as well and so I couldn't do that profession anymore. At the same time that all that happened, I was offered a job to teach for a three-letter agency in Virginia, and they didn't care that I was doing physical therapy and that I was going through surgeries and all this stuff.
Speaker 1:As long as I could teach, they said they welcomed me. So I came to Virginia. I taught for eight years almost 10,000 students and it was kind of a toxic environment. So I was really looking for something else to do. At the same time, I was trying to do some coaching as well as a head of coaching. I have done that. I've got a lot of training and education in that. But at the time it really wasn't paying the bills. That's a tough market to get into and so I just wanted to transition into another career field where I could leverage my leadership and rapport building and experience, and that's how I got into this industry. If you want details on exactly how that happened, I mean I can tell you. But bottom line is I was looking last October for a different thing to do that would leverage my skills. That was outside of anything that had to do with government.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's, let's talk about that. So how you? You stumbled upon what you're doing. Now let's, let's discuss, kind of how we got introduced and what you're doing in relation to the construction industry. What is it that you do?
Speaker 1:So I'm a consultant for lean construction in the last planner system and originally, around September October, a very good friend of mine that I've known for like 25 years, he was involved in lean construction and he said hey, I think we have some openings, bill, let me get you in contact with the director and he'll interview you and maybe, if it's a good fit and you know, you can come out here and you know, I don't know what the details are. And I said okay, what exactly do you do? And he gave me kind of a big description, um, about problem solving and things like that and planning. But uh, it wasn't exactly super clear. And so I said what?
Speaker 1:And he's an 18 and 18. Uh, charlie too, he's a first force engineer. I'm like, all right, well, you, I'm a charlie and I'm an engineer and I know basic instruction. But, man, you're talking about the commercial level. That's like that's way above my pay grade. And he goes trust me, your experience in special forces planning, it's exactly what they need. And, especially since you're an officer, he was enlisted, we were enlisted together. He got out as enlisted at the E7 or E8. And so I said well, you know, I'm willing to explore it, I'm willing to find out more information, and the guy that he connected me with was another former Special Forces guy that had retired as a team sergeant and he gave me a better explanation and so I spoke with him and we, you know, talked about well you know, there's a lack of good structure and planning the construction industry. You there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I don't know what happened, my screen just went dark. Sorry about that. Um and um. So he went. Uh, so he says you know, they're behind the timeline and they're usually over budget. There's usually not a very good communication. Uh, he said so. You know, your experience in special forces as a civil affairs officer has a direct correlation to what the industry is missing, and I'm like okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So we did that interview and then, um, at the same time I got another job offer and uh, I had to take it. And so I took it and I went overseas for a little bit. But I never heard back from this guy. And so I'm like, okay, well, you know, um, I'm a direct, I'm a very direct guy. So whenever I'm like, okay, well, you know, um, I'm a direct, I'm a very direct guy. So whenever I'm done with like an interview process, I just straight up ask the question is there any reason that you can see after the interview or whatever the interaction is, that you wouldn't hire me or offer me a job? And uh, he said, no, not, no, not at all. I mean, yeah, you're exactly what I'm looking for. I said, okay, great, he didn't call me back. He took this other job overseas, but it was some unethical business practices.
Speaker 1:So I left that job, came back to the States and I was looking for something to get outside of the government. And I get a call from this guy. So I think it'd been five, maybe six months and he said, hey, bill, it's so-and-so. And I'm like oh, hey, how's it going? He goes yeah, man, I got to apologize to you. I I'm sorry I ghosted you, it wasn't intentional, but that company I, I I had the feeling that I was going to be leaving the company.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to bring you into the company knowing that I was leaving. There was possibly some issues. I'm like, oh okay, yeah, all right, he goes. But I have another opportunity. It's with this other Marine Corps captain that has got this construction background and he's sees a need in the industry and he's going to start his own company. And, um, he asked me if I was available. But I've got a really good gig with another company. Um, I wasn't ready to leave it, but I told him I knew exactly who he should talk to and so can I give you his number or your number? And I said yeah, by all means. And so that was how I was introduced to Andrew and his company Industrialized Construction Partners, or IC Partners and that's how I got into the industry.
Speaker 2:Well, I speak for the industry man. We're lucky to have a guy of your caliber, so I'm glad you find your way and I'm sure you know. I know you haven't been in this gig for too long, but I'm sure you're already seeing some parallels between the service and the construction industry.
Speaker 1:for sure, yeah, for sure, I've developed this skill of looking at a situation or circumstance and then just translating it into experience that I've had, or vice versa. And so, yeah, I've definitely been able to, although I was a little hesitant to step into the industry. Since I've been in the industry, I have enjoyed it, uh, immensely, and I have been able to provide quite a bit of value. And uh, well, those guys were right, those those two sf guys were right that, uh, my skill set translates nicely, um, to the industry.
Speaker 2:So yeah for sure. So so what was it like what? What made you realize, okay, this is a good fit. Um, seeing your background, I mean that's a drastic change getting into construction. I'm sure you you came with, um, maybe some misconceptions about what construction might be and, uh, you know, like you said, what the heck is lean, and we can talk about that a little bit. So what was that transition like? I mean, what made you feel comfortable making that jump into this industry?
Speaker 1:Well, at first, um, you know, sometimes we have to be comfortable being uncomfortable. So I, uh, I had the interview and you know, and obviously he had my resume, looked at my background and everything and he explained to me that you know some of the problems and the issues, like you know, being behind schedule and over budget and having poor communication and things like that I'm like, yep, I totally understand that stuff and you know, I study cognitive behavior as a hobby and, um, put, put those things into practice and I've, you know, taught over 15 000 students in my lifetime, probably closer to 20. So one I thought, well, kind of sounds to me like this is just a variation of teaching. Um, it's improvement, right, it's systems and organization and structure and things like that. So I'm like, all right, you know I can do that. But the final interview step was to fly me to Texas and put me in front of five industry professionals and put me in a make pool, pool planning session. You know, the pool planning session is right, a base plan, yeah yeah, let's, can we?
Speaker 2:can we sidetrack real quick and kind of talk about what that is and and a little bit about uh, last planner?
Speaker 1:yeah, so, um, the last planner system is a system that was designed to optimize planning or make planning more efficient for the construction industry, and it implements something called backwards planning. And backwards planning is foreign to a lot of the corporate world, because most of the corporate world does forwards planning, which is what most people are familiar with, but backwards planning is how special operations plans their missions. So I had 26 years of experience doing backwards planning. We do that as a civil affairs and civil affairs too, and so you start at a milestone. So you identify a milestone in the future. It can be six weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks, but in some parts of the industry six weeks is kind of standard, knowing that it's hard to plan and predict things that happen too far in the future because you have weather and all kinds of other issues that happen too far in the future because you have weather and all kinds of other issues. Right, but you identify a milestone and then you begin to plan from the point of the milestone six weeks in the future back to today, and so when some people have never heard of it, hear about it, they're like this doesn't even make sense. There's no way we can predict what goes on in six weeks from now, and that's not the point. The point is we're going to plan this as if nothing were to happen in the next six weeks and then, as we do that, we will begin to identify problems.
Speaker 1:That's what I tell a lot of people is if you just trust the process, then what we're going to figure out is that this method of planning allows us to identify problems early and often and when you forward plan in the construction industry and other industries as well, there's a tendency to run right into a problem like hit a pothole, and then they're like okay, now what do I do? How do I deal with this pothole? And it takes time and it takes money, which then costs other issues for the project. And if you do backwards planning or LPS last planter system correctly, you can identify a potential problem three or four weeks in advance. And my experience is you can mitigate those problems that you experience up to 70 or 80% of the time. So it's really incredible and when people really learn it, they go, oh my gosh, like why haven't we done this before? Unfortunately, there's a large percentage of people that are getting taught LPS in the wrong or the less less efficient and less effective way. Is that good, or do you want me to explain more about?
Speaker 2:it. No, that's, that's perfect, and I think so. I've been off active duty since 2011 and I've seen the change happen where a lot more people are adopting that system and to me, when it was getting bigger, it just I'm going well, this just makes sense. Like, this is the way we should do things. Um, you know, what am I, what am I not going to do today that's going to impact me six weeks in the future on the job site, or what do I need to do today to make sure that that's successful? I guess it's a good way to put it. Um, so it's. It's neat seeing that it's gotten so much traction over the last decade, plus to where I'm seeing the industry. Just, it's becoming the norm now. That's just kind of the way we plan and the way we're supposed to plan. But I sidetracked you, I'm sorry. So we were talking about the parallels between what you saw and kind of what made you comfortable getting into this. Yeah, kind of what made you comfortable getting into this, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So to go back to that, they told me what they were going to do and I, I don't know. I think most, most normal people would have been like, are you kidding me? Like no way, I'm not going to stand in front of five industry professionals and go through some mock thing when I I didn't come from this industry to begin with, like what, but I don't really have a problem, I'm comfortable being uncomfortable and I don't have a problem being on stage and talking and things like that. So I said, all right, well, you know, I'll take the challenge. And so they brought me in this conference room in Dallas, texas. You know I met these five guys that didn't know me and I didn't know them. Well, that's not true, cause Andrew was one of them and We've had plenty of conversations, and the other SF gentleman was one of them as well, and they just they're like okay.
Speaker 1:So they gave me, you know, a basic blurb on a project. You know like hey, you've got this $130 million high school that's being built and know the groundwork's already been done and the foundation's already been done and we're going to rack. And you know you've got the steel guy and this and that, and you know, I understood some of these terms and some of the some of the concepts, but I'm like, okay, there's definitely some things that I I'm familiar% familiar with. I'm like, okay, all right, I'm listening. And then, hey, we have got to, we've lost some time, we've lost like a month, and these are some of the issues and stuff. And hey, you're the one that's leading this meeting with your trade partners and you've got to get them back on track and you've got to deal with some of the issues that you might encounter. And I'm like, okay, all righty, all right, let's start.
Speaker 1:And so I stumbled initially through the first little bit, but then I got into whatever you want to call it, the zone. I got into the zone and I'm really good at focusing on solutions one and I'm really good at focusing on solutions one, and I'm really good at reframing things and I'm really good at redirecting people's efforts and their focus. And so, for example, you know, they threw at me some attitudes that you know you might get from a steel guy or a framer. Hold on a second. Oh, my bad on that. Um, so I can go back and make this flow all right. So, um, oh, man, lost my train of thought, scott no you can
Speaker 1:I thought I'd turned all my alarms off, everything, so let's try this again. So they threw some attitudes at me and then, you know, I just dealt with the attitudes and I didn't give the attitudes back because, again, um, one of the things that I do with all the projects that I work on is I talk about rapport building and I talked to them about team building and everything else. We can get into that in a minute, in a few minutes, but anyway. So they just kept throwing problems at me and and and even throwing turns that at the time I didn't even really truly understand. You know, like, at the time I didn't really truly understand what a slab on grade was, you know, or there's between a pilot, a peer and so, but I knew the general thing, like, okay, you have a problem. I understand, we have a timeline, we have to get this done. I'm like so let's focus on the solution. And you know, let's focus on this.
Speaker 1:And by the time I got done, they all said you did an incredible job, bill, bill. It's like. It's like did you make a great superintendent? I'm like what? Oh, all right, cool, thanks, and so that that gave me some confidence. You know that that whole situation and that I mean you can call it a rehearsal, right, cause that's what we would call it special forces, I guess. But yeah, after that I'm like, okay, all right, sure, if you're telling me that I did a fairly good job and you know great. So then I just shadowed Andrew on a couple of projects and he introduced me and then I started talking to guys about problems and identifying solutions, problems and identifying solutions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I would liken it to what civil affairs does? I mean a lot of what we do like. I'll give you an example. I'm not an expert at any of the trades. I mean, I'm a carpenter by trade, but I'm not an expert at any of these trades.
Speaker 2:A lot of it is just relationship building, trusting the team to execute, and I'm just laying the groundwork like okay, here's the plan, and showing them what's on the horizon, what has to be done. But I I've likened the trades before to like a warrant officer. So these guys are like I'm, I would be like the BC, so I'm kind of given the commands of here's what we need to do. But I'm leaning on these guys as the experts in their individual fields and so I think sometimes we overcomplicate the industry where it really does just boil down to trust and building those relationships, Cause I'm not going to build the job myself. I can't, I mean physically as one man, yes, but I can't. I can't do all these things, I don't have all the trade expertise. So I think it, it fits you well, man, and I'm really glad you you found your fit in the industry.
Speaker 2:Um, so if if you were to go back, uh, maybe when you were transitioning out or looking for work, um, do you think, maybe, that you would have followed the same journey back into this industry and try to find your way, or was it just kind of a fluke and it fell in your lap?
Speaker 1:Um, I went back. Well, I mean, I think it's cool industry, um, but I, I mean, I kind of followed the path that. I kind of followed the path that I wanted to follow. Um, I'm happy to be where I'm at right now and I, I'm, you know, I, I believe God sets us on a specific path for a reason. We experienced certain things, whether they're painful or that are difficult, or they're not painful and they're not difficult, but, uh, so would I do things over again? No, I think I'm here at the time, I'm here for a reason. There's definitely a need. In nine, I'm being successful and welcomed, so, um, so I'm not so sure if I would have changed it, because then I wouldn't have had the other experiences I had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fair. I don't think there's really any right or wrong answer to that. I'm just curious. So I know I've stated what I think, what attributes that you carried over. But what do you think really stands out that you've brought to this industry that you learned during your time in SF and civil affairs? You've brought to this industry that you learned during your time in SF and civil affairs.
Speaker 1:Well, um, I liken being in this industry and work with trade partners or going on different projects as like a fit mission. So you know, movies are movies and what you usually see in a movie except for maybe the original, you know green brain movie that had John Wayne in it is we all go fight terrorists and this and that. But SF's primary mission has largely been foreign internal defense across the world since its inception, with the exception of. Yes, we have seven different missions and direct actions, one counterterrorism, one counterinsurgency. But the bottom line is, you know, a lot of this training in foreign countries is what we do, so our teachers, our instructors, and going to a new job site and work with different trade partners is kind of like that, which means you can't use the same exact technique everywhere and the culture is going to be slightly different depending upon where you go. Like, construction workers in Philly aren't going to be the same as construction workers in Texas, aren't going to be the same as construction workers in Texas, and so if you aren't aware of your surroundings and you can't pick up on and identify the nuances and difference in the methods of communication, in the way that they think of things and you can't adjust whether you're not going to be as successful as you could be. So I have a lot of experience with that, both in civil affairs and special forces working. I've been to 47 countries I think. I've operated like the military, I think 19 of those 47 countries, and so I've met some superintendents and some other old school guys because I'm in my 50s, so it's not like I'm in my 50s but I look a lot younger Another one of the reasons why Andrew liked me because of that. But anyway, they're set in their ways and they're not going to change and they are who they are and they're just going to do what they do. Unfortunately, that doesn't always work the best and so there's friction. That's unnecessary, right? So that's one. Two is I'm a solutions-focused person and I understand the nuances of perspectives and the words we use and so I can key in on that and I can help redirect people.
Speaker 1:And I'll tell you a quick story. And that's one of the superintendents I was working with, great guy, former Marine, former SF guy. He was superintendent and when we first started working together he would say all right, everybody, thank you for being here. I appreciate it. My name is so-and-so, and I just want everyone to know that I am really aggressive when it comes to this type of stuff. I'm really aggressive about meeting timelines and in the project and doing good work, and he says this about the third time. I said hey, can doing good work, and you know he says this. And about the third time I said hey, can we just pause for a second? And he said yeah, yeah, bill, for all means.
Speaker 1:I said let's talk about the words that we use when we're communicating with teams, because you know, sometimes the words make the difference in the relationship and the way we're perceived. And he's like, okay, yeah, what, you know what'd you got? And I said, well, I know you don't mean anything negative by it, but you know you like to start these meetings out with. You know I'm aggressive when I come to this and that and everything else. And you pretty much have a room full of men in here that are all the different tradesmen foremen and things like that. And if it's not a conscious thing, it's a subconscious thing. It kind of raises or heightens their you know their sense. There's just that word in general, you know, a little defensive, a little like what you know. It. Just it causes this subtle shift. It's not a positive shift in human behavior, and so it goes.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't, I didn't, I don't, I don't mean anything by like you know, I, uh, I'm not. I said I know, I know you're just passionate about your work, right, you're a passionate about? Yeah, that's it, man, I'm passionate and like so if we change the word to something else, does that be passionate? Then you, you won't immediately get these guys in a heightened state and then about like three minutes later the rest of his staff goes yeah, yeah, we agree with Bill.
Speaker 1:And he said well, why didn't you say anything to me, like, why didn't you guys tell me and of course most people don't want to ruffle the feathers of the boss or the guy they work for or things like that, right, so they're not necessarily willing to say anything.
Speaker 1:Or the guy they work for or things like that, right, so they're not necessarily willing to say anything. So I can identify that stuff and communicate it in a a non-abrasive way and get guys to change and adjust to make the relationships they have better. And then I just talked to him about specific points. So I know I kind of went off on a little tangent, but it's. My experience working with a bunch of different people in different countries, across cultural barriers and language barriers has allowed me to be able to step into an environment and assess it and then adjust my approach, uh, so that I can actually build rapport and trust there. And, uh, I understand bridging trust, which is something that's eroding in the United States or has eroded or is almost gone actually, yeah, no, no, I mean I appreciate the tangent man.
Speaker 2:I mean the floor is yours on this and, like I said, I want to share your story. So, um, and again we, we see a lot of parallels and, and what you did and and what you're doing now. Um, I want to take a shift real quick too and talk about, uh, mental health, which is obviously a major issue in in the service and, as, as people are finally shedding some light on it's, a big issue in the construction industry as well. So, if you've had some people that are maybe listening, that are going through some stuff in the service or in the industry, what would you say Because I know this is a big part of your personal mission and making people their best what would you say to try to encourage that person?
Speaker 1:Well, the first thing I would like to say is, if you're experiencing struggles with your mental health, it doesn't mean you're weak. I mean, I'm a green brain. I'm going to be the first to tell you that identifying the fact that you have some mental health struggles meaning you're not yourself or you're just not right, you're not exactly sure how to fix it. Well, you don't have to have all the answers. I mean you don't right. So that's why there are professionals out there, and this is not the same as it was, you know, back in 2002 or post-Vietnam. I think it's a lot more widely accepted that that's just something that service members experience and have experienced for a number of different reasons. And so identifying and understanding it's not weak to identify it, that's. That's one point. Two, seeking help, um, because you're just not equipped and and I'm a guy that you know has almost a dozen nos's um, and I had to realize that I didn't have an answer on how to deal with some of the, you know, mental health stuff. So I did something called emdr, uh, which is phenomenal, um, for getting through certain traumas, and I've had a whole lifetime of trauma. I mean, I was abused when I was a kid too. So, um, but uh, so anyway.
Speaker 1:So, and that you're not broken. Right, there's broken, and when I say broken, I mean obviously you. You may not be thinking the same way or your mental health may not be as resilient as it was before or as positive, or things like that, but it's fixable. You know, they can make you pretty much whole, but you have to be open about it and you have to be willing to try something new and different. And you have to understand that those that seek help and get on a mission to get better, that's a true sign of strength.
Speaker 1:But if you keep it to yourself and you stay private about it and or deny it, uh, it's just going to get worse. It's like a slow poison, right. So once it doesn't get fixed, it just gets worse and worse and worse. And we don't realize it because our perception starts to kind of get skewed. And so I tell people I seek that help and understand there are people out there that have experienced similar things to you, that have sought help and that have gotten better and leading awesome lives and have taken that trauma and used it to help other people. So I don't know, is that, does that work, scott?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, man, yeah, man. Very well said, and that's kind of a good segue to into. I want to talk about some of the work you're doing outside of the consulting. Can you share a little bit about your personal work that you're doing with people?
Speaker 1:Yes, so you know there's. I went through a very deep personal struggle. I mean, I've actually been through a lot. If I was a cat I probably would have used up all night of my lives. But that whole situation when I was training athletes for a living in California and, oh, by the way, my career was starting to really pick up, I was writing articles, I was about to be picked up by a major magazine and, yeah, I mean I mean that that career was doing pretty well.
Speaker 1:So when I got hurt and then had this surgery that went poorly, that led to three, four surgeries in three States, in three years of physical therapy, and at the age of 43, by the way, I was in the best shape of my life. This happened when I was 43. And I was right-handed for 43 years and I had to transition to be a left-handed and my wife had to feed me, by the way, and dress me for a couple months because I couldn't do any of that stuff and all that, but anyway. So I went through some of that. Just that's actually, I guess, ties into what you had we just talked about, which is the mental health thing, because at that moment, at that time, um, that was such a massive shift in my life that I I did get depressed and I um, interestingly enough, I never I I never had really any PTSD. Uh, scott, we in uh, from all the combat and I used to get shot. I got shot at in South America, columbia, before nine 11 happened. Um, and that's probably because I grew up in the inner city and I got stabbed a few times and I saw my first almost I was 16. So you know, when people would ask how could you not have any PTSD from being over there in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm like I have no idea.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's because I was exposed to trauma earlier in my life and it just faced with not being able to use my right hand, and even though I'm educated and I'm relatively smart, my identity was always based on my physicality, centered on my physicality, and so I was questioning what does it mean to be a man, and was I going to be a man anymore? Can I protect my family? Can I do any of this other stuff? So, as I did that, I came to this revelation that and being a man, it's not based upon how fast you run, how strong you are, how well you can shoot, it's based upon your character. And so I wrote down what are the characters of a true man, and it just so happened I wrote down 13 of them and I redefined them, and 13, by the way, is my favorite number.
Speaker 1:I didn't do that on purpose, that's just when I got done writing I was like, oh my gosh and you know, integrity is the number one of those character traits and I reframed them, meaning I gave three different definitions to each of these, and that courage is one, and there are all these that I felt like, well, you know, this is a mark of a true man. And so, from that point forward, I endeavored to share that with other men, because I could see that there's this slow erosion of the definition of what it means to be a man. We've seen it. It's been a slow thing, that's happened over decades TV movies, physicians and all these things. And so you know, we're lacking in the United States of two things the whole concept of family and the definition of what it means to be a man or a father. And so I share these with guys and I change their perspective, and I now have metaphors, because my wife and I we went through this really tough period as well.
Speaker 1:Right after I came back from the Middle East, I was over there for five and a half years and it was rough and it almost broke my marriage apart and we went through what's called what we call five years of marriage combat. After that, when we made it and now reflected back, or even when I was going through this whole thing in 2015, 16, 17, I would reflect back on that time and I just had all these revelations of these really cool examples that I didn't have. Then, in the middle of that combat with my wife, where I just thought she was crazy and I didn't understand what the heck was going on with her, I go back, I think back and I'm like, oh my gosh, man. Okay, now I can relate that so. So, with that said, I have this thing. It's an ebook. It's called the 13 codes. I think 15 or 15 to 20,000 people have downloaded it over the over the years.
Speaker 1:But again, you know, I at that time I didn't have the right. You know I at that time didn't have the right, you know people to support me, and so I spent a lot of money and put a lot of effort and I had a great Facebook presence and did this other thing, but it just in the end. It wasn't paying my bills and I was still going through a lot of other stuff, so I had to put that on pause for a little bit. But I created something called the FIP, and so what I've, what I've really been good at doing, is taking the things that I learned in the military in in like military planning, which I use in the last planner system and in construction. But I've also helped men with their relationships. I've helped some people not get divorced. I've helped some people improve their relationship with their children. I developed this thing.
Speaker 1:So when you're in special operations, if you have a target, you're given a tip, a target intelligence packet. In the packet it talks about all this different stuff about. This is the target, this is where they eat on this day and this way to get their haircut, and this and that right. And we take that tip and we develop our plan and we determine, okay, when and where are we going to take the target out. And I took that and I turned it into a FIP, a female intelligence packet, and I would talk to guys about how to gather either intelligence on their spouse in a covert or an overt way. But the bottom line is part of the reason why your relationship is losing track and it's not very good is because you don't really understand your significant other. And a lot of people argue. And then I say, well, let me ask you a couple of questions. Um, and real quick, do you know what the acronym PACE stands for? Scott?
Speaker 2:I don't offhand, but I'm real quick. I'm on the website signing up for the packet as we speak. I'm listening to you but I'm and for those who don't know, it's themoderndaynightcom. So what is PACE?
Speaker 1:So PACE was originally built for communications and I looked high and low on that, exactly where it started and I think it was in Vietnam, but it may have been during the OSS days, but anyway it was for communication. So it stands for primary, alternate, contingency and emergency right and it's basically for communications on the move or in the field or in combat situations or whatever. You, if you don't have communications, you don't get support, you don't get food, you don't get ammo, you don't intelligence, you don't get that stuff. Don't get ammo, you don't intelligence. You know you don't get that stuff.
Speaker 1:And so they developed this like, all right, we have to have four methods of communication, we have to have some backup ones, of contingency ones, and so they created this so that you know like, for example, um, normal field radios, they're really heavy and their batteries are really heavy and they don't carry. You know they don't have a lot of power, meaning it's not like it's a battery that lasts for 15 hours. You know, like iphones and things like that, right, and so you carry this big radio in the jungle or something like that. There's only so many batteries you can carry with you, and if you drop and you break it, and so they're like okay, we need another form of communication, so you might have a smaller handheld radio. That was more like a line of sight type of radio, right, um, then you had um, morris code, which it couldn't have voice communication. Then the bandwidth you would need wouldn't be nearly as much for morris code. And then you know, we'd also carry a hundred feet of wire and a hundred feet of 550 cord, and then you'd get a plastic spoon out of mre and you'd cut six, three, six foot sticks and you put them together in a triangle and you'd hoist this up and it's called a jungle antenna and, man, you would be blown away at what the communications you could get.
Speaker 1:Now, if there's combo guys out there and there's 18 echoes out there and please don't slay me because I didn't describe it all I mean it's been a long time and I did it a couple of times earlier in my career. So if I got some details wrong, I'm not claiming to be the expert, I just you know what I mean. So I don't want someone to come back. But anyway, generally speaking, I think I got that concept right. I've done it a few times, maybe many years ago, and it was really cool.
Speaker 1:So when I learned that pace, when I learned it in SF, we pretty much operate on pace for everything. So if you had to plan a mission, not just commo but okay, what's the primary way we're going to hit this target? What's the primary? Oh, on a Monday at eight o'clock while he's getting his haircut. And then, if that didn't work, we'd immediately float to another plan. We'd have to go back to the drawing board, take another couple of days to figure it out. We will have already figured out four courses of action based on different criteria, and then we could just fluidly execute those things right. And so I've taken that pace and I took it to the fip and I also bring it to lps.
Speaker 1:But I tell guys okay, what's your wife's favorite flower? Most of the time they're not 100. Sure, they just assume it's a rose, and so they'll be like a rose. They said do you know that for a fact or you're just assuming because you think all women like roses? You're like well, I'm, yeah, my wife loves roses, is it? Have you ever asked her? She told you. And sometimes you're like, well, uh, I don't like, because my wife doesn't like roses. And then the second favorite flower she's the carnations.
Speaker 1:And so I'm like what's your wife's second favorite flower? I'm'm like, well, I, I don't know. Um, let me say something. Or say carnations. I'm like do you know that for a fact or are you just assuming? And I'm like well, what does it matter? I mean, if I just buy roses and like, what else are sold out of the roses? What's your wife's favorite color? What's your second favorite color? And I asked all these questions and then they then they're like I don't know, I guess not. I'm like see, so if you don't know those facts what's your favorite meal? What's your favorite thing to do, what's your love language then the way that you're interacting, communicating with your spouse, you may be way off man. You may be sending these subconscious messages that I don't, you don't really care. Now I'm going to caveat this by saying I haven't mastered this myself, scott. Um, so you know, it's still a fluid thing and sometimes these things change, but nonetheless, when you get to know your significant other to that detail, then your ability to communicate more effectively or more empathetically becomes better. And then other things just get better. Right, their perception that, whether you care or not, it just gets better because you're making these slight adjustments and changes, and so, anyway, I really like doing that. That's what I like to do, um.
Speaker 1:I'll also ask guys about their integrity, and it's cool.
Speaker 1:I personally, in my lifetime, has spent probably a hundred thousand dollars in personal development.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've been a Tony Robbins, uh, I've been, you know, um. But the problem with that is is a lot of people don't walk away with actual tools to implement from that $4,000 they spent in those four days. They're just motivated for a couple days or a couple weeks. They feel really good and they say they can do that. They don't really walk guys with tools and I tell them look, you know, if you just change the way you operated on a daily basis and focused on character traits, like these 13 codes and I'm like there can be 12, you can pick different ones and they don't have to be the 13 that I've picked, 12, you could pick different ones and they don't have to be the 13 that I've picked, um you would magically see your life significantly changed, um. And if we have time or there's interest and I can, I can give an example of the integrity thing, um, during the podcast, or we can do another one, but it's usually eyeopening for most guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love this and kind of liking it to the industry. I'm not going to go ask the trade foreman his favorite flower, but uh, you know there's. There's a lot of power in getting to know your people too. Um, you know, I've heard people talk about like knowing people on a first name basis. That holds a lot of power to it.
Speaker 2:I try to make it a point to shake hands with the guys on the job site every morning, you know, just reaching out and saying good morning or how are your kids and people really appreciate that Like, I take a general, a genuine interest in you as a person. Before I do, like, I'll give you a quick example. I have a guy on my job site that, uh, he's had some heart issues and he just went to the hospital and I just sent him a text checking in on him. How are you doing and I can't prove this, maybe, but I I'm pretty sure I'm probably one of the few people that actually checked in on him from the site, because I genuinely care about these guys. Um, you know, these are my, my now brothers in arms here in the construction industry, but I'm loving all this stuff and I'm going through your site as we're talking about this industry.
Speaker 2:But I'm loving all this stuff and I'm going through your site as we're talking about this, um, and I don't care how good your marriage is, I mean, it can always improve, right? So this is, this is all good stuff, for sure. No, it's, it's good man, and I appreciate you, you sharing all that, and it's it's the modern day nightcom for people who don't know. And uh, I love, I love that female intelligence packet, um, but people who don't know, and uh, I love, I love that female intelligence packet, um, but I appreciate you being in or admitting the fact that you don't have it all figured out yet.
Speaker 1:I don't think any of us will, any man will, but you're doing a good effort, for sure, it's a constant thing, and I just want to clarify, by the way, a couple of years ago, um, cause I, you know, I I stopped, uh like updating my website and this, and that because I was doing some other stuff. There's another company that took that name and they call it the Modern Day Night Project, and they did it in like 2019. So if people type in the modern day, if they don't actually type in wwwthemoderndaynightcom, then they may come up with MDK, which is Modern Day Night without the in front of it, and that's another group that does some other stuff in California.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and I would say so, I, I, I started a nonprofit last year and we're we're still slowly getting it up and running. Um, there's never enough organizations like this to to help you improve yourself and and, uh, you know your, your relationships, whether it's your marriage or or at work, so I appreciate what you're doing. Um, so that's that, like, you know your, your relationships, whether it's your marriage or or at work, so I appreciate what you're doing. Um, so that's that, like you said, the modern day nightcom. Um, and I'm on here. So as soon as we get off the call, man, you're going to see a charge go through. I'm buying it, okay, no, I really appreciate it, man, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um so sort of in closing um, so if we've got folks that are, that are transitioning out, maybe, yeah, all that, if I'm in that position, what would you say to me to encourage me to give it a chance?
Speaker 1:Well, I think that if it's not one of those options that you'd be considering, like you said, there's a huge, huge room for growth and there's a great need. I mean, I was just at the Lean Congress conference in San Diego last week and, man, I think they said that currently, across the country there's a shortage of like 685,000 construction positions for all these projects that are up and running. So they're running under full strength. And so someone that's transitioning out of the military.
Speaker 1:You may not have, or you may not think that you have, a direct skill that translates, but what I will say is that if you've been in the military for a number of years and you know what it's like to show up on time, and you know what it's like to take orders, to be part of a team, and if you've also been in a leadership position a squad leader, a platoon leader, a platoon sergeant or any of those then the industry definitely really needs people with that experience, because you can learn how to swing a hammer or operate a concrete truck or other things like that.
Speaker 1:So those other skills make you a valuable asset, make you a valuable asset right, so that discipline and schedule and planning and all those things make military members a valuable asset that could come into the industry and there's a number of different positions they can fill and it pays really, really well actually, and so there's a shortage. You have a skill set and skills and experience that could be used in the industry and it pays well and so and there's longevity in it. So even in recessions there's people that are they're still building things and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Sort of seems like a no brainer right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure. Well, cool, bill man. I really appreciate it. This was really cool to get to know you and to hear your story and, um, I'm sure this won't be the last time we chat, man.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for having me on your show, scott. I appreciate it tremendously. Uh, thank you for allowing me an opportunity to share that story, and uh, I definitely look forward to um not only watching the industry grow, but um cultivating this relationship with you and and uh do the best I can to just be a contributing member of society, you know.
Speaker 2:Outstanding. I appreciate it, Bill. Thanks, man Yep. Thank you. Have a great evening.
