The Construction Veteran Podcast
Welcome to the Construction Veteran Podcast. This is a podcast connecting and celebrating veterans in construction, those who have the desire to be in the industry, and those who support them to create the built environment.
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The Construction Veteran Podcast
Finding Purpose After Service: A Skillbridge Success Story
After 21 years in the Army, Master Sergeant Karl Muller faced a crossroads common to many veterans—how to transition from the structured military environment to a fulfilling civilian career. The decision to retire wasn't made lightly. Despite earning a spot on the promotion list to Sergeant Major, Carl recognized that another series of moves would take a toll on his family. "I looked at my wife, Maria, and she just wasn't happy," Karl reflects. "Those weren't tears that were celebratory. It was pain because I was dragging my kids from school to school."
Enter the Department of Defense SkillBridge program, a powerful but underutilized resource that connects transitioning service members with civilian employers for internships during their final months of service—all while maintaining their military salary and benefits. For Karl, this opportunity led to Builders First Source, a national distributor of construction materials, where he now manages multi-family construction projects in Lubbock, Texas.
What makes Karl's story particularly compelling is that he had zero construction experience. Yet the leadership skills, problem-solving abilities, and disciplined approach he developed through multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan made him an ideal candidate. "Your skills in the military will have you learn faster than ever," Karl explains, having mastered complex aspects of construction project management in just four months that might take others years to grasp.
The parallels between military service and construction run deep. Both require precise teamwork, attention to detail, and the ability to adapt when plans go sideways. As Karl puts it, "We don't just build projects, we build teams, communities and a future worth fighting for, just on a different battlefield." For veterans seeking a tangible way to apply their skills, construction offers the satisfaction of creating something visible and lasting—a stark contrast to the often intangible nature of military achievements.
Want to support veterans in your community? Consider participating in the SkillBridge program at your company. As Karl powerfully states, "
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If you're a military veteran in the construction industry, or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets, and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast you can find me at constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com , or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott Friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others!
- TCV Email: constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com
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You've heard somebody say thank you for your service, but nothing says thank you for your service. Better than hosting a vet for an all-paid internship at your company to see if you can assist one veteran transitioning to civilian life.
Speaker 2:This is the Construction Veteran Podcast, connecting and celebrating veterans in construction. Now here's your host, scott Friend. I must say I'm more excited about this episode than many. I'm going to bring you Carl Moeller, a gentleman that went through the SkillBridge program successfully and has an amazing story to tell. Let's dig into it. Hey, carl, how are you, sir? I'm doing well, sir, how are you? I'm good man. I am very, very, very excited to have you on here. Um, as I alluded to a couple episodes ago, carl is the one that I was excited to talk to, as he is currently going through the Skill Bridge and finishing up the Skill Bridge program, something I wasn't ever exposed to, something I've heard a lot about and I've met people. But, man, I'm just thank you, thank you, thank you for making the time to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really, the pleasure is all mine, sir, I'm honored to be asked and if I could pay my experience forward, I absolutely want to. It's been a great thing thus far as I come to the closing of it. But yeah, I would love to share my experience and hopefully help a couple vets out.
Speaker 2:Awesome man. I appreciate it. So I want to start at the beginning. Where are you from and what led you to join the military, and how old were you when you signed up?
Speaker 1:All right. So I you know, I want to go back real quick. A long time ago I didn't do so well at a spelling test in third grade, I believe it was. My teacher was Ms McFun. Um, you know I didn't do well. And she asked me you know, why didn't you do well? And I said why. I don't want to go to college or anything. I want to join the army, I want to be a soldier. I know it's a silly question.
Speaker 2:Wow, In third grade you knew it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't really know it, though. That was just a poor excuse for me not studying.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I end up. You know it's always been a thing. I played a lot of sports. You know football, baseball, wanted to football baseball. I wanted to go to college. Rutgers showed some interest, but bottom line college is expensive. They would give me a tuition but not a full ride. I can't afford to live and eat. So I just decided to join the Army. I met a recruiter and he was a 19-kilo nice guy, my Master Sergeant Calgill. He kind of rode me in and said what do you want to do? And I'm like I don't know, man, I just thought you carry a rucksack and a rifle. So that's what I did and that's how my story started. I was 17 years old when I signed the contract after my dad signed allowing me to.
Speaker 2:Very cool. So let's talk about the values and discipline you kind of get from your service and man you've had. So you were retiring very soon after 21 years of service and I know I'm asking a broad question here. But what kind of values or discipline do you think from your time in the service has stuck with you the most?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good question and, quite frankly, this is something that you kind of understand because you're taught the Army values right, and there's seven common principles that we all, despite your background or where you're coming from, that we need to keep in check, to work with each other, and you don't really. You know that helps a large group of people strategically work together very well, but you don't really know and appreciate what it does independently for you. Later it becomes some of your culture and things I'm talking about is like discipline in the military. Even though sometimes it feels like to you individually, it's just a mark on the wall and you're not there. You are light years beyond most professional organizations. I can promise that, and it's certainly what we call standards and what discipline that I'm talking about is doing what's right legally and morally. You know it doesn't even take sometimes a deliberate thought process.
Speaker 1:Let's see, integrity is a huge one, right, like I used to say. You know, I caught a guy throwing some stuff on the ground and I remember saying to my soldiers and explaining why we would pick up trash. It's like we're picking it up because the people throwing it on the ground imagine all the other things they do when no one's looking. Oh, that's good. Yeah, that equates to accountability, which is freaking huge Accountability, self-ownership, self-ownership, um, and that's just going to build on a very pillared tier of qualities like teamwork, uh, where, where it's actions that you know, together with accountability and integrity, to build that discipline, where it's not just words. Right, it's life or death, yeah, man that's I appreciate honestly.
Speaker 1:Uh, scott, what I would say is like the same principles apply in construction, and I'm sure we're going to talk about it, because projects get built. You're seeing it lay out before your eyes, but the big thing is there's more than just the project getting built. Teams need to stay safe, your structure in your team, you need to build as a community and, again, that discipline will continuously grow if you get the team dynamic right and there's only a concoction of things that you should have to make that productive, and I really think it's accountability, discipline and just having the ability to apply some of the concepts such as leadership that we learned in the military, the duty and what you're doing and buying in to get your subordinates to buy in respecting each other. It all plays into itself and there isn't one value I'd say is more important than the other, and it certainly applies in the construction industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well said my friend.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:No, it's good, and so it's kind of like an all-encompassing thing. There's not like one value. I get it. You kind of you build the whole person, um, so let let's go through your, your service, uh, I know it's kind of hard to compress 21 years, but if, if we take a couple minutes, let's talk about, um, what your roles were, where you, where you uh, were stationed at, and some deployments.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, 21 years, let's see. So it all started off with basic training in Fort Benning, georgia, where I went to infantry school. Didn't really think I was going to be good at it. I just followed the guy in front of me and somehow made it through, went to airborne school because you get paid a little more. And then I found out that I was going to the 25th Infantry Division, where I went and shortly deployed after getting there to my first tour to Iraq, knocked out, that tour got back, the unit re-flagged, the 25th Infantry Division re-flagged to the 2nd Cavalry Regiment and became a you know stayed, a true striker unit where I moved over to Germany, which was a pretty cool move for an 18, 19-year-old kid to move so far away from home and be that independent when I started to think like an adult, something I think is another reason I'm successful in having a very determined and motivated mind just being isolated in a foreign country by yourself. Mind just being isolated in a foreign country by yourself. Um well, I was in the 25th, sir. I served, as you know. It started as just a rifleman. It moved up into being a you know squad, designated marksmanship, uh, marksman sniper.
Speaker 1:Um made my way to the second Calvary regiment and this is where I really realized like my future in the in the army, uh wasn't three years to get some college money't three years to get some college money, or four years to get some college money, which was my original plan. By the way, um, I'll be completely honest with you. Um, my first patrol, uh, september 30th, uh, my my team leader and good friend from Rawls, texas, randy Olgin, got shot in his head, right beside me. Um, evacuated him and, just like we say in the army, you got to pick up that, you know, evacuated him and just like we say in the army, you got to pick up that. You know that leader's radio and you know, drive the mission forward and, sadly, without thought like I don't get any credit for that that's what we were trained to do. You know I did it and we hoisted him out of there. Sadly he passed away from the you know major hemorrhage to his head from a gunshot wound. But I realized there that, like you know, the Army is what I want to do. Like it scared me, but I was comfortable in my team and I was learning valuable skills and people started to depend on me. Early on After that deployment I ended up staying there for a while, man, I bounced around, I stayed in the recon units a sniper, worked my way up to be a senior scout observer, then an assistant team leader and then what they call a squad leader in the recon world.
Speaker 1:And after doing that it comes around the time I made the sergeant first class. I was deployed to Afghanistan twice with that unit. Nothing significant to report there other than it was tough Afghanistan's a lot different than Iraq, a couple different challenges, but I think the unique skills I learned in Iraq and as a young man applied with leading those troopers. And you know I got back from that. I was supposed to be on a nine-month tour, my fourth tour, which was my last one to Afghanistan, sir, and you know I knew the brigade commander, a very famous guy now.
Speaker 1:He's General Douglas Arthur Sims now and he asked me to stay and be his personal PSD through the Afghan presidential election, the second one where Karzai was removed from office. With that being said, you know, nine months boots on ground, they extended me for another 12 month tour and I stayed. I chose to stay and when I got back I found out I got promoted to Sergeant First Class shortly after and I was moving to, I was coming off the line for the first time the operational units to go to be a ranger instructor in 6th RTB in Florida. To be be quite honest, I also try to get after get out of that um, can we sidetrack?
Speaker 2:why were you trying to get out of it that and so, uh, let me expand on it really quick. So he's talking, you're talking about ranger training battalion. Um, not everybody that listens is a vet. Can we talk about, like, what is?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry about that people hear about a ranger um, there's ranger school, there's ranger, uh, regiment big difference. Um, but so you were going to go training at the ranger training battalion in Florida. And so tell me what, why were you? That's interesting. You say that. Why, why did you not want to do that at first?
Speaker 1:Um, I think the I don't know man. Quite frankly, it's a crappy thing to say, but it's true. It's nothing against the unit, it's nothing against the job, it's it's about everything I've done right, like I've learned the principles of winning a gunfight from 2000 and pretty much five when I joined the army all the way until now, or 2004, all the way until now. Um, you do all that and get good at it. It's not that you feel comfortable, it's that like you know how it is, like you get promoted to one position, you get very good at it, just enough time to get the next position and then learn all that stuff.
Speaker 1:So I was. It's not that I was climbing the chain, it was. I was actually, by the time I was getting comfortable doing the jobs and realizing that I can influence other people's other people to you know, make the organization better or accomplish our mission. I was just learning very quickly that you know I was doing well and then all of a sudden I'm doing something completely foreign. I'm going into a TRADOC unit, which is, you know, training and you know teaching a bunch of soldiers that you know they're there temporarily. These aren't my guys.
Speaker 2:Right, and I'm sorry I misspoke. It's Ranger Training Brigade, not Battalion, correct?
Speaker 1:It's Army's Ranger Training Brigade, not battalion correct, it's Army's Ranger Training Brigade. Yeah, brigade, okay I said it a bit, the ARTB is the unit and then the battalion I was in was 6th Ranger Training Battalion in Eglin Air Force Base Florida.
Speaker 2:Okay. So anyway, I totally sidetracked you, I'm sorry. So you went to RTB in Florida, spent a few years there, and then where did you go from there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so bottom line with the ranger instructor thing, I'm glad that my sergeant major said you're going to be good at it, get out of my face. And I went um because one my wife got to enjoy the beach. Um, my, my first son was born there, florian, um, born in Florida. You know I got to be on a reptile team. I got to do a couple firsts. I wasn't home very often cause we work a lot Um, but I learned a lot of things that I would say built skills for me to solve problems today, um.
Speaker 1:So I stayed in um RTB for a while. I knew I wanted to go back operational to an airborne unit. Um, you know I've been to a bunch of schools while I was there. Um, I ended up. I ended up making just some weird assignment. I got some weird assignment, uh early on before, like a year before I was supposed to leave um Florida, and it was to the 173rd infantry brigade combat team, airborne. Uh. It's one of the most prideful units I've ever been a part of. It's one of the most challenging and dynamic units I've ever been a part of. Um. I wasn't home very often. I had a lot of different transitions there and challenges.
Speaker 1:I served as a platoon sergeant immediately my family was still in the hotel my first training deployment to Bulgaria. It was a major airfield seizure and joint warfighter exercise Pretty crazy to do in a foreign country where your family's in a hotel. I served as a platoon sergeant for pretty much a year and a half before I found out that I was making the E-8 list which would be promotion to master sergeant, where they laterally promoted me to first sergeant, which you can't do anymore, and I went right into being a first sergeant of a line company, did that for almost two years and then I took over the higher headquarters company as one of the senior first sergeants. I will tell you that was kind of a really difficult point, just to be honest with you, and this will kind of allude and be a good lead-in, scott, to why I picked up and wanted to do the construction thing. To be quite honest, man, when I was a first sergeant I loved my job being the master trainer of a company and I loved working with the dynamic and great leaders that were coming out of the Ranger Regiment to lead companies in the 173rd. But, man, I was dying inside. I wasn't being a good husband, I wasn't being a great father. My second born child, maya, who's six right now, was born in Italy, where this unit is based, and I was just never home and when I was home, all I did was I was on my phone, I was being a first sergeant, taking care of my people and I was messing it up, man. So it got to the point where they gave me a higher headquarters company, something I was foreign to, but I did a decent job.
Speaker 1:I was also fighting a lot of injuries from jumping. I needed some surgeries and stuff and I came down on an assignment that that what I would have went to west point. But long story short, it got. It got deleted for some reason or another. And then, uh, I had a line into a very, very good battalion commander who knew that I needed to leave the operational line to heal up. But I needed to do something with influence and what I was able to do is I got assigned I didn't even know where it was man to be an observer coach trainer in California, out in the Mojave Desert, ntc. It's a training base that I've never personally had a training rotation in. It's in the middle of the desert where I would be a company trainer for infantry companies and mechanized companies that come there and, quite frankly, man, I loved it.
Speaker 1:I was, you know, even though I was busy out, sometimes for 48 hours, I was able to come home and be a father to my kids and be a husband and work on some of those things, build a relationship with Jesus Christ and just focus on some of those things, build a relationship with Jesus Christ and just focus on some of the things I wasn't doing. But that was short-lived, man. I came down on an assignment to Texas Tech University because I was a key development time completed master sergeant, which means I have the leadership time required to go to the next position, and I was needed somewhere else at a university as pretty much the operations leader um for the college. I try to get rid of that assignment because I knew I was going to be. I had, I was very confident, sir, that I was going to get promoted to Sergeant major and make the list uh, first look, mq, to go to El Paso shortly, um, where I would go to the Sergeant majors Academy. Obviously, branch didn't care and they said you got Texas tech, you, you need to go.
Speaker 1:So my wife, after 11 months of being in California, we moved over to Lubbock, texas, where we currently are right now, and four months after being there, sir, I was named on the MQ list to go to El Paso. So if you haven't been in the military, this is one of the struggles right here. Right, I just moved. After being in Italy for six years, I moved to Lubbock, texas, after 11 months of being in California and in seven or eight months, come July, I was going to go move again to El Paso, stay there for 18 months for schooling, then PCS somewhere else to be an operations sergeant major where I think I would be competitive, to get promoted into a command sergeant major position. That's three moves in a calendar year. And what I will tell you, scott, is this is where things in construction come to fruition in my mind.
Speaker 1:When I found out I made the promotion list or the star major list to go to school, I was celebrating a whole career of accomplishments. I was getting congratulated by all my friends and my peers man Like oh yeah, you succeeded. But I looked at my wife, maria, and she just wasn't happy man. She cried tears, and those weren't tears that were celebratory. It was pain because I was dragging my kids from school to school. It was. You know he's not going to be around again, he's going back to the airborne community where those guys stay deployed. And I took a long walk, man, I took a couple weeks to think about it and talk to God and I don't know. He just kind of said to me like your time is done, man, you've given enough. And I don't feel guilty about it, even though a couple of my mentors I reached out. They said I was being selfish for retiring because I applied for retirement and got approved, sir. And then I started doing the SFL tap thing and started thinking about what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm speechless at the moment. I can't thank you enough for your humility and all of that and what you shared like very heavy things you shared and your faith. Obviously, I'm a man of faith as well. I've shared that openly. Um, thank you Like.
Speaker 2:I think it's really easy for guys in your position, um, who've done a lot of things done multiple combat deployments to get um, I don't want to say a big head, but you kind of get this like I'm tougher than anything kind of mentality. And what I've learned to respect the most is guys like yourself and guys at the tip of the spear that say, hey, you know, I've I have some issues I need to work through and being so humble about it. So thank you for that man, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, scott, and you nailed it right. It's not an easy thing to talk about, like you know. The first thing that comes to mind is no one is more professional than I. Like you could be professional and still undergo human nature, and we are not robots. And I learned that If I could share my story and help another vet realize like hey, man, it's OK to like have second thoughts about what you're doing and start thinking about you.
Speaker 1:Like I said earlier, when we were just, you know, kind of shooting the crap, you don't need to die in uniform and everyone has an expiration date and there's a time that's right for anybody. Now there's some freaks of nature out there that that can do it. A couple that come to mind are, like Sergeant Major Daly, the ex Sergeant Major of the Army. Those guys are superhuman, you know, and and I and I thank God for men like that Um, but that's just not written in my, in my cards. Man and and other vets need to know, like you have your own set of cards, man just pursue excellence and you'll achieve it.
Speaker 2:That's awesome man. So there's a guy, he was a CAG guy. Um, there's a guy, he was a CAG guy. So for those who don't know this, that's Delta Force. His name was Chris Van Sant and he was on the Sean Ryan show, which is a super popular show a lot of people know, and he said something to the effect of trauma is trauma and it's like everybody needs to deal with trauma.
Speaker 2:And that, to me, clicked in my mind because I think a lot of the guys when we get out and I'm kind of trying to relate it here to our conversation but when guys get out, it's like, well, I didn't do X, y, z, so like I shouldn't complain, I'm fine. Well, no, I mean, you might've had some sort of trauma or things that you carried with you and I'm not. I'm not trying to sidetrack or derail the conversation, but that just it reminded me. I just can't thank guys like you enough, like especially infantry guys or guys that have been in direct combat to be humble enough to come out here and say this kind of thing. So, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man, it's, uh, it's. It's hard to talk about, man, but it needs to be said. There's so many people out there that can benefit from hearing it. And I'm not saying that from a point of standing on some. Hey, I did my time and now I'm done. I could talk down to others and hope they listen.
Speaker 1:No, man, like I've had mentors and friends that went through the same thing and some of them, you know, they chose not, you know, to choose a route other than service and that's okay, that's their choice.
Speaker 1:But I seen them suffering because of it and I talked to them now and you know, a couple of them have kind of pushed me down the right path and and said it's okay and and I appreciate that and that's that's what we are Like. We're we're mentors to other people and age doesn't matter. You know, rank doesn't matter, what. What matters is, you know, your experience, the things you have been through that somebody else hasn't right, like what is a rehearsal right Is it is a fundamental. So we don't do the same things for the or we don't do something for the first time, and the concept that I've learned in many high speed units is like if you didn't do something today, you've never done it Like it's a new thing. So we learn from other people's experiences and that's just the principles we apply to everyday life and I've done it and it's worked out.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Okay, so I'm going to kind of go on a different path. It's really hard to follow up on that. No, it's good. So take me through what you're doing now. So you're, you're, you're in the skill bridge program. You've been doing it for what? Six months now, is that right?
Speaker 1:No, sir, it's, it's 120 day program. I started May 6th. But I need to back up Scott for vets out there that are interested or not even just vets man companies. If you own a company and you're interested in having a dependable, disciplined, mission-focused and mission-oriented soldier, come intern at no cost to you while they still get paid by the government with your own tax money to come work for you. You need to listen to this too.
Speaker 1:Once my retirement packet got promoted, man, I was like, okay, what do I do? I went through all of the Army's SFL, tap stuff and it's good, it scratches the surface. But again, you need to pursue excellence. You need to look at other means to figure out what you do, and that gives you a good idea of some things to do. But you're missing a large part of what people need to do to be successful and earn a career where you can leverage your skills you learned in the military and the thing I'm talking about is what we're doing right now, what we do on LinkedIn. It's called networking. That helps you again, that experience. Somebody has to get you in the right field, the right trade, the right industry. So, 18 months out, right, I start doing all this stuff. I finished the SFL tap thing in like a week online because I'm nowhere near a military base, so I got like the you know, condensed, fast paced version and then I just started like what I did brother is at Texas Tech.
Speaker 1:Before teaching, before doing anything, I would go in around after working out. I would go in around 738 in the morning after dropping my kids off at school and I'd sit in my office and I would do every three days a week at a minimum one hour to one and a half hours of self-development, meaning I was doing something for my life after the Army. That included getting my medical record straight, something for my life after the Army. That included getting my medical record straight. That included finding other transition programs out there other than SFL TAP, which they're a huge, and I'll quote a couple. The most important and, I think, beneficial for me was it was called 4Block, where I got to network one day a week every Wednesday for two hours where they would have people from all different companies come talk to us X, amazon, john Deere, builders First just a bunch of different companies that would just interact and have recruiters talk and show us how to tailor resumes, you know, adjust and work on our elevator pitches and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:And that's where I learned about the you know the Army mentioned, you know, in SFL tap with the skill bridge program was, but I still didn't, it still didn't click to, to how it would apply to me and where I would do it, because I was retiring in Lubbock, texas. So there's not a lot of big companies here Like, if you, skill bridge is a lot easier to go with these named ones that are already approved by the military. But that doesn't don't let that deter you, because there's. If you, let's say, your mom or dad knew somebody who owned a business that they wanted to hire you, you can do a private skill bridge through them. It just takes a little bit more of legwork, right?
Speaker 2:I did not know that. I appreciate you telling me that, because I thought I mean basically every company. Just they can all follow the same process right To get like, approved as a skill bridge provider.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I'll share it with you after this or I'll push it to you on LinkedIn. Yeah, please.
Speaker 2:I've had friends that have asked me, like company friends, like yeah, we want to do this, we want to support vets, and I don't know where to point them to. So if you could, yeah, we'll definitely share it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will, man, and I have buddies that offered me like. I know Shane, this guy's from San Antonio. He offered me a skill bridge in San Antonio working at CM Constructors awesome commercial construction company. But yeah, I mean, he got approved to be a skill bridge, which means it's recognized by the army. It doesn't take much stuff to get it approved.
Speaker 1:The hardest part for a vet to get approved for the Skill Bridge program is, sadly it's senior leaders. Because you're so it's not that you're more important than the lower enlisted. You have a lot of responsibilities and people need to understand, like you need to articulate to the Army how your job being unfilled because they're not going to fill and send a replacement until you're retired. So right now my office at Tech, I still have it at Texas Tech. You know there's things I still do for them, but I'm not supposed to and you know nobody's going to do that. So what I did was I made damn sure that I built predictability in that seat so that that operation would function without me there. And that's what I did and my brigade commander had no issues approving me for 120-day internship.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, so okay. So we kind of skirted around it. So you're in the Skill Bridge program right now and who is it that you're working for? And let's talk about what you're doing and how it relates to construction and why you're on here in the first place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry man.
Speaker 2:No, it's my fault, you're good.
Speaker 1:I got a thick story man. I love it. Yeah, it's actually magic, scott, I was hitting dead end after dead end here in Lubbock, texas, where my kids love to go to school, where I bought my first home and there was nobody that here would sponsor me or wanted to do the rigmarole to get me sponsored. I interviewed other builders and I wanted to go into construction, which I learned through a transition program. You to other builders and I wanted to go into construction, which I learned through transition program because I want to do something tangible. Not that I'm not proud of everything I've ever done in the military. A lot of the times we work and we run, we're like a snake eating her own tail, but there's nothing at the end of it that you could see. It's nothing tangible and that's the definition of insanity to me. So what I ended up doing, man is, I figured I want to do something tangible. I would love to drive past the school and be like hey man, I uh to my kids like Florian Maya, leah, I helped build that. You know what I mean, um, but anywho, I got a text one day after, after interviewing with power home remodeling in San Antonio good company for renovations and I got a random call on LinkedIn or a text from Anthony May.
Speaker 1:Who's the general manager at builders first source in Lubbock, texas? Who's the general manager at Builders First Source in Lubbock, texas? They have three locations here and what Builders First Source is? It's a national like nationwide distributor for construction materials. This ranges from lumber, timber, simpson ties, all different types of hardware, windows, doors, anything you need to build residential and commercial structures right.
Speaker 1:And we have a yard where I currently work. It's a lumber yard. And then across town we have a truss facility where they produce customized, you know, to the architectural and structural plans, roof trusses and floor trusses with engineered wood. And then we have a door mill right and our door mill is really the magic here.
Speaker 1:It's crazy to me what they do. So, bottom line, they pretty much fabricate and build doors for structures and for you and somebody who's been in construction, you know just how hard that kind of is, both on the commercial and residential side, because it's not like one size fits all right and every rough opening is different and every commercial project or residential project calls for a certain type of door and a certain type of spec, a fire rating, so like they build all those things and do custom mortising, striking for hardware I mean they do all of it boring for locking and securing. So what we do, what they do, is they end up deliver all these construction materials to these builders locally that end up building these structures Um. Do you have any questions before I go on to what I do, sir?
Speaker 2:No, I just it's funny because, as you're talking about doors, like I've told guys over the years, doors, frames and hardware are like the one trade I hate to love it Like. I love it because it's so intricate, but it is so freaking difficult to try to understand all the different types of lock sets, all the different types of frames, and then you get into like the commercial side with the electrified frames and it's like it's extremely confusing. So I'll share a real quick story before we go on that.
Speaker 2:My first project that I was on dude, I, we had a senior superintendent and his only job on a close to a hundred million dollar building. His only job because we had like six league guys was door frames and artwork, because it's that difficult. So it's just funny you bring that up, but yeah anyway, uh, let's, let's talk about kind of what your specific role is at builders first. Source.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, and just to say something important for all the vets listen, or anybody that's thinking about hiring a vet, or maybe thinking about the skill bridge program I have zero construction experience other than doing tweaks around the house, which is really nothing crazy. It's not framing, it's not pouring slab, it's nothing right. I have zero experience before Builders First Source and somehow this general manager, anthony May, who I owe a lot I'm indebted to and hopefully I'm like helping him out. But, bottom line man, what I do is he.
Speaker 1:A big market here in Lubbock, texas, is multifamily commercial structures and what that is is, you know, you got apartment complexes, duplexes, and they're popping up everywhere, as you can imagine, in a flat desert of West Texas. So what he told me is there is a you know, for a long time they've had just OSRs, outside sales reps that sell all these materials, but they're not really operations managers to make sure things are getting delivered right and when they're ordered like you don't know. It's not like going to the store and being like man, I need a gallon of milk and some Oreo cookies for my kids, like, and I just need to get these things on a list right. So you got to deliver a product. That product needs to build the specification correctly, but it's got to be delivered at a real pivotal time. And that pivotal time is like okay, residential stuff they're, they've framed, stick framed. You know the layout of the building. They went ahead and did drywall. Now they started texturing.
Speaker 1:Right around that time your doors need to be getting produced. All right, your windows are probably. Well, they are already inserted. Of course, we can't be delivering doors when it's stick framed, because those doors are just going to sit somewhere. Those walls got to get drywalled and tape embedded and then textured and then those doors need to get hung.
Speaker 1:Now here's the deal about construction. For anybody that has been there and knows the pain, the construction managers pay laborers to hang those doors. So if they go and they pay them on site and those doors don't show up, what happens is they charge us, they backcharge us and we pay for that. And it was happening a lot here.
Speaker 1:So Anthony brought me in and he wanted me to build, with my zero experience the only experience that he's seen in me that I can run a team and lead teams, take over operations. That means interfacing with general contractors, interfacing with superintendents, other construction project managers, building a relationship and solving problems, and that is exactly what I did. I went to the point of friction and what I can tell you for anybody out there that's interested in hiring a vet or a vet interested in construction your skills in the military will have you learn faster than ever. I've been doing this since May and I'll let Scott be. Have you learn faster than ever. I've been doing this since May and I'll let Scott be the judge, but it sounds like I've learned a little bit.
Speaker 2:Dude, I'm so glad you said that as we're sitting here talking, I'm like 120 days you have picked up so stinking much. That's taking a lot of guys years. So kudos to you. Like I'm really impressed because that means a lot.
Speaker 2:No, thank you. And I had a guy I was on. It was one of my first job sites. I don't think I was an assistant superintendent, I think I was still a PE and he told me like look, it's going to take a while. Like, especially when you get into multi hundred million dollar buildings, like there's a lot of moving parts and pieces You're doing really well getting in on the ground floor.
Speaker 2:Like learning just these basics of getting stuff to the job site is so critical, especially as a super. It's like, uh, I had a guy I used to work for and he would say just, just, uh, you know, give me the stuff and then we can control it. Basically, like, get it there and then we can. We can buy up time in the schedule any day. Without the material though, we're useless.
Speaker 2:And so the fact that you're learning all this stuff is really impressive. And so this guy on one of my first sites is like hey, man, if you don't really have a good grasp on this by like year three to five, it's probably not the best industry for you. But I picked it up fairly quick but it took me a few years to really understand the ins and outs of every single trade and building brand new buildings yeah, but that's really neat and so your story should be encouraging to other people. It's like, hey, there's a low barrier to entry in construction and I came in with no degree. I hung on to the guys that would teach me everything and I tried to be a sponge and it sounds like you're doing just that. But you are able to do that just because of your background and like the humility that you have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sounds like you're a lifelong learner too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's one thing about me, I did go to college late. It took me 10 years to get a bachelor's degree in criminal justice. A lot of good that's doing for me other than just being like I also have a degree. But I will tell you, during four block I was able, like there's a lot of things out there for veterans, and once I knew I was going to go into construction or like getting interested in it, I started doing Coursera courses and I did the construction management course through Coursera, through Columbia University, Great course, applying zero things. I learned Most of the things I learned it's from doing right and being there Again like I had no experience, Like I am doing some laborious things sometimes because it saves us money ultimately and it solves problems Like you know.
Speaker 1:Very custom door being delivered, it's the wrong swing bringing it back and not charging the construction company, like going back out there and hanging it myself with my team. Obviously we don't want to do a lot of that because I'm spending time doing that. I'm not doing what a, you know, a project manager needs to do. But again, there's a time and a place. But the benefit of doing it is that once you do it, once, like you kind of know it and you're seeing the process. So the next time you're ordering something or you're checking the specs, as these guys drop off hundreds of doors, you know you're making sure it's right and you're catching things that are wrong before they're hung, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that are wrong before they're hung. You know, yeah, no, and I, man, I'll tell you from experience the fact that you're doing that, um, and going out there and physically helping your guys, cause it's it's similar to the military, where I don't know if I necessarily always agreed with this view of, like officers don't help the enlisted guys, um, and I get it to a point where it's like, hey, you know, let the, let the sergeants do their job and kind of run the guys, but I don't know if I necessarily always agreed with the fact that I couldn't roll up my sleeves and help the guys. Now, as a superintendent, I did that, but I didn't do it to gain the respect, but it gained a lot of respect from the guys and the fact that you're doing it as a PM.
Speaker 2:There's a guy I'm thinking of at an electrical company I worked with over the years and if things were just tough on the job site they didn't have enough people or it was like we were trying to get over a hump man he would come and throw on his tools. He was an electrician by trade and this is the guy wearing a button down shirt all day, but he would come out and he would throw his tools on and help and I as his customer, and he would throw his tools on and help and, like I, I as his customer, respected him more than any other project manager, even some of the foreman. I'm like, okay, this dude doesn't have to do this, but he's kind of coming down from his ivory tower, if you will, to come help the guys out. Yeah, so you're really laying the foundation and I think this is going to pay dividends for you in the future, not only with clients, but with your guys you're working with too, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's awesome. And like when I fell in, so when I signed in May 6th like it was kind of funny because Anthony, you know Anthony May, the general manager here, he kind of welcomed me. He's a busy man right, he runs all three locations, you know, he has obviously direct reporting requirements to our, our area manager and he works for a big corporation. So as just like like brigade level leaders, like these guys are hard to get in a room, you know he, he felt like he wasn't welcoming me to the team. But like I'm like Anthony, what are you talking about? You? I got here you had a computer waiting for me, an account. Like for anybody that's been in the military that had to do that, like it takes weeks, for anybody that's been in the military that had to do that it takes weeks I felt like I had a cuticle. I wasn't expecting anything, man, it felt really good.
Speaker 1:And then he introduced me to somebody that I knew a little bit when I first started and he's really done a lot for me here and his name's Chad Puryear, great guy, he's our business analyst.
Speaker 1:He actually works for corporate but he's stationed here in Lubbock, texas, our yard, and he manages our P and L and you know help thread a lot of our problems um and gets ahead of them Um. But you know Anthony delegated to him to build my skill bridge schedule and you know I have it right here in front of me and uh, just so I can kind of allude to it. So vets that like are thinking about skill bridge and like nervous that they might be making a mistake, what they need to know, man, is like your skill bridge is not just you doing work for free, it's you to learn and realize. It's like a two way um interview, right, it's to make sure what you're choosing is right for you, cause at the end of it you're probably going to take it because it might not be right for you, right, so it's really cool. So I have this schedule.
Speaker 2:here You're dipping your toe in the water, if you will Like. You're trying to figure out really what you want to do when you get out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what's important right is the culture. Is this culture right for me? Somebody who's been very structured for 21 years? Can I do this? Or am I going to be like people are going to look at me like I'm building foxholes outside of the storefront windows, you know? No, like, all joking aside, like these are some of the things I was thinking about, right, and before I go into the schedule, I just want to talk. Like the day I got here, anthony May pulls me and he's like hey, man, I you know I told everybody that you're coming in explain what the skill bridge was. He's like I don't think I'm doing a good job, you know explaining it. But but honestly, man, like I just kind of like people are afraid you're going to like march around and order people around and like he was very impressed with, kind of how quickly it is. I kind of latched onto the team, um, which which really means a lot to me, cause I little did they know that I was inferior to them. I'm talking to men and women that have been doing this for 20 and 30 years and I was in awe, like I felt inferior. Like man, I can never do this, um, but the magic really goes to, you know, to Chad, with the whole operation um over this 120 days.
Speaker 1:So week one started with on onboarding, doing new hire paperwork, meeting the team and stuff and safety training. Week two, really just hitting hard in operations. I spent time at the lumber yard, the millwork, the truss plant and just watched operations happen. I didn't really lift any hammers, I didn't really do anything, but I was learning the dispatch process. I was going on deliveries, roofing and lumber deliveries and getting exposed a little bit to the truss design. That's literally just one week of stuff and that's a lot coming at you. But I didn't know that he was interested in me being a project manager man, I don't even know. I thought I was going into sales or something, but the deal is, what he wanted to do is see where I would excel and see what was where he could put me and, quite frankly, I don't even think they had a position here for me and, like I said, he kind of created it, which is really awesome.
Speaker 1:Week three and four we went. I spent time with the salespeople and let me tell you something man, I, one of the lead sales reps here is this guy. He's pretty famous in West Texas. He used to be a builder. His name's Reagan Reed. He's awesome, he's a great human. I shadowed him for two weeks, man. And this guy runs and guns. He spends a lot of times at the job sites. So his customers, I learned, send him the architectural plans that he goes over and creates a. He does a takeoff, creates a list of everything they need to build that house, bids it like, quotes it pretty much, and then they go with it and anything excess which there's not much, because he's so dang good, he schedules to get pulled off and gives the credit back. So that's what makes Builders First Store so freaking great.
Speaker 1:We have a team that if you're a builder, you just give them your architectural plans right, and each sales rep has a different number of builders here, all well-known ones in Lubbock, and they do. They literally look over your plans. They help value, engineer some things and get you the right amount of material. But the best thing there is like and you know this, Scott, if you're looking at plans and you're looking at the framing, okay, a California corner is a California corner, but there's so much things you could do differently and it changes the way you you utilize material. So, like, each sales rep learns the way each builder builds so they can, when these guys do takeoff and the software is telling them they need you know this many LVLs. They know that builder doesn't use much LVLs and they use two by six, triples and stuff like that in their framing so they're able to personalize it to the builder to make sure it's accurate. That's where things started to click for me and that's where I learned like dude. I like this side of things, I like the field work, I like being in here and understanding the construction process, the stages of construction, all right.
Speaker 1:So in week five of my internship, that's really where I had my exposure to multifamily and commercial department. A lot of problems going on and nothing we were doing wrong. It's just we had sales reps really running operations, which those are two different things. So we have three multifamily structures going up with two different construction companies. We got the Erskine Apartments, which is a five-building commercial residential construction project. It's a Jason Nassaloni build.
Speaker 1:And then we have Citadel, which is a big company. Here they have an apartment complex going up called the Hartley Apartments and then they have Slide North, which is just they're really in phase two of the build. A lot of their buildings are already being leased and now they're adding three more buildings. So that's what I went into A lot of problems with things spec-wise and a lot of missed delivery times because of the sheer numbers our door mill needed to produce, because we were pretty much messing up span of control and what an individual person's responsibilities and number of things they have to do no fault to anybody other than process. And that's where I kind of focused my efforts and things are up and running now, real, real, real well.
Speaker 2:Very good man. I'm just so excited, I'm really happy for you because this program I feel like and this is just my take you probably could have gone anywhere and just been successful because of your mannerisms and the way you are, and I'm so happy that you found success in this and shout out to Builders First, source and all the guys out there and Anthony and the guys that you're talking about. I'm just thank you to those guys for providing you this opportunity and and really fostering that growth, because I think you know this is just me thinking. I'm sure there's companies out there that kind of go okay, skill bridge is just some free labor and probably don't pour into people I'm not saying it's everybody, but I have to believe there's companies out there that are kind of taking advantage of the program. But to hear that they're doing such an awesome job really just kind of makes my heart happy and that's I'm so stoked for you, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, it's really cool. And just to like to show you how level playing field it was about, about two weeks into the the skill bridge, you know, anthony pulled me in his office. He's like hey, man, we're all part of the West Texas Home Builders Association here, which is really cool. They're currently building a hero home for a vet for free. Like building him a home. I'm sure I think he lost his house in a tornado or something and relocated here to Lubbock. But all these builders come together and donate material and things and and they're building. You know we're building a material, so they do a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:So he asked me to come to a luncheon that we were hosting and, uh, he asked me to speak. He said he's not much of a speaker, he's gonna open up some things and introduce it, and if I would speak, and I was like what, and this is to all the major builders in lubbock and and I and I was like I was a little nervous Like what, what do I have? But what he wanted to do is he wanted to share. He wanted me to share um about the skill bridge program and what it is, and I made a QR code so people can scan and learn about it. Um, and how I started that introduction is I was like, what about a cool video? Like in the army we always show like a high speed motivated video in the beginning. So I had a video of me jumping out of a C-130 after pushing the F-47.
Speaker 2:Zodiac out. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:So he introduces me and the video starts with the back of my head, um, jumping with scuba gear on um out the back of a C-130, after pushing an F-470 Zodiac boat and fully inflated with a, an engine, you know, strapped down to the inside out the plane, um, and after it stopped everybody kind of looked at me and I was like, yeah, tough day in the office and everyone started laughing.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that's good for you, man.
Speaker 1:And I don't want to cover much about that talk, cause it's only about five minutes, cause, like these people are very busy and they had a guest speaker and I wasn't it and I didn't want to like encroach on their time. But I did say you know a lot of us and we've heard it, that's. I'm sure you heard Scott and all of you out there. Like you've heard somebody say thank you for your service, but nothing says thank you for your service. Better than hosting a vet for a all paid internship at your company to see if you can assist one veteran transition into civilian life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, said man, that's awesome. Yeah, and it's such, you know, like I've said earlier and I keep saying it's, I'm so stoked for the vets of today that have this program. I'm like, I'm low key jealous because I'm like man, where was this when I was in? But it's, it's awesome that somebody finally recognized, because we weren't. Uh, some of us found our way. You know, I became successful after, but so many other people didn't. And it's not I'm not saying it's all on like the government or the industry Um, you know, the impetus is on the guy or girl to really take the first step, but a lot of us were going, okay, well, what is that first step? And so kudos to this whole program being started and I know it's changed a little bit. Um, but you're, you know you're not the first success story I've talked to and it's, it's awesome.
Speaker 2:Um, I personally connected a guy. He was, um, I go to this monthly networking event in Dallas. That's, uh, half vets, half industry, like random, not just construction but other industry leaders, and he hosted, uh, I don't know, maybe half a dozen or more guys that were in the skill bridge program and one guy came up to me and said, hey, I want to be an electrician. I said, well, that's perfect. Here, go talk to this guy. He's a friend of mine, he runs an electrical company and he is I believe he's still there as an electrician. Um, but he wouldn't have had that opportunity to even like go ask somebody without skill bridge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, 100% man, I don't know. I know a lot of vets and I will tell you a lot of people. They just don't think but start networking. I'm telling you right now that it helps, and then you'll connect to a bunch of people and learn about their trade and you'll be able to make a decision.
Speaker 1:The decision was made for me and the hugest thing there was I learned what I wanted to do, but I didn't just be like, oh, I want to do this and I expect a skill bridge to be handed to me. I made the case for myself. Right, there's going to be stringents, because you just can't let everyone go, but if you do the groundwork to get in, um, there's ways to do it Now. For example, like I told them, like I'm going to be doing this in Lubbock, texas, where I'm stationed as well. So if anything happens, I can.
Speaker 1:If you need me on a weekend to go you know safety of flat range Dude I'll throw my fatigues on and go out there with these college kids and get them qualified. Like I'm still a soldier, you know Um, but if you plan on trying to do and some people do relocating and doing a skill bridge 50 miles away from where you're stationed, like it's a leave form and the request goes to the first general in the chain of command. So do your research. If you want it, you can obtain it. You got to do the research.
Speaker 2:So do your research. If you want it, you can obtain it. You got to do the research. Talk to your, you know, true, but let's say you started and like you just weren't approved, they're like Nope, you're not going to do it. What do you think you would have done when you get to that? You know, last terminal leave, last month, terminal leave, like what was your plan? Going and getting out, Cause there's, there's people that are in that position now and maybe they did get turned down. What would you have done?
Speaker 1:Man, honestly, that's. That is a difficult question. Um, I one thing wouldn't start saying life ain't on, life is unfair, because guess what? It is unfair and once you recognize that, you'll realize that you'll be successful, because it's never going to be fair. Um, I thought mine was going to get. I already had a plan B, right, because I thought I was going to get um kind of not, I don't want to say fraggled, not many people know that. I mean, I thought they weren't going to prove my skill bridge, right, because I did some things to get, you know, a replacement, not a replacement, but somebody could fill my tracks, because in my office I had one more green suitor, another army sergeant first class who PCS, before me and I would be leaving my Lieutenant Colonel to run our program with me. Another green suitor, who's National Guard or our Active Guard, and then I'd try to get another Sergeant First Class.
Speaker 1:Sadly, we got a major who did something unethical and got removed from the seat very early on in college, you can imagine. And then we got a Sergeant First Class who, right before he reported, he got a DUI so that he couldn't teach. So really I was leaving. And this is where I felt guilty, right, because I'm like man, I'm about to leave my partner, my ranger buddy, and that's Tom Stevenson, great Lieutenant, colonel man who's still at Tech, and I love him. But I felt guilty and I told Tom like I'm going to cancel this whole thing. But he said no man, like he's like you paid your way, you did these things. You've set this program up for success. Just look at the timeline. Maybe you agree. Okay, they want to prove 120. Do 90.
Speaker 1:And then I actually started reaching out and I found an NCO that I served with in 6th Ranger Training Battalion, who from Lubbock, who wanted to come teach here. So I got him the report early. He just got here. So now school started and he's here. So there's things you can do.
Speaker 1:But my plan B to answer your question was to continue the same process networking, doing Coursera courses to get me some level of experience and reap the army for all the educational benefits for transitioning that I could get paid for to include the project manager management professional certificate, um, certified associate in project management. Um, if you're a tech nerd, nothing against you. I'm just not that kind of guy. Like um, you can go get why, like night school, like online or whatever your security certificates, um, which I thought about too. And to to write code, like online, or whatever your security certificates, which I thought about too and to write code. There's so much you can do.
Speaker 1:And then, once you hit terminal leave, then you'll have a direct higher position while you're still getting paid in the army. That's what I would do. You got to feed your family, you got to pay your bills that's first, but you also have a responsibility to the contract you sign faithfully and honorably first, but you also have a responsibility to the contract you signed faithfully and honorably. And that was my plan, scott to just keep networking, keep talking to people. The process would be the same. The only difference is I wouldn't be here getting all this hands-on experience man.
Speaker 2:I love it, dude, I've really enjoyed this. I know this we kind of ran longer than most of my interviews, but that was somewhat intentional, just because you're in a really special position. Um, I got a quick couple of rapid fire things for you. Um sure what? What would you be? What would you consider your go-to tool on the job site?
Speaker 1:Oh, my go-to tool is my cell phone, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's good, all right.
Speaker 1:I'll give multiple. The second one I would say is a tape measure. You wouldn't believe how many construction managers and people just don't have it on them and need it. I walk buildings every day of my life and if you look at my LinkedIn and I'm sure Scott will share it and you could follow my if you want, if you're interested in your event, look at my LinkedIn. I post every couple weeks or so about how the skill bridge was going.
Speaker 1:I post pictures from job sites. You could see me getting a little bit you know, a little bit hairy around my face, but you could watch the experience and the magic in the making. But I would walk job sites, measure rough openings and then any problems I had I would take it to the superintendent and be like, hey, man, I think these rough openings were framed wrong, or the wall depth because you're using this drywall and a 2x6. Like, these doors that are on the plans aren't right. Right, and it would solve problems up front and what that does for you. That little tape measure led into building trust, right, and then you just end up solving problems. There's so many that are solved by that tape measure. It is insane, and there's not two alike.
Speaker 2:Right, and I will say it's also, uh, the one tool I've gotten stolen more than any. For sure, I can't tell you how many dozens of of tape measures I've had to buy over the years, but, um, okay, Coffee or energy drink. Coffee all day Blacker than night Chewy Like that bad, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You don't want to be licking your lips and burping three hours later and taste it. Last rapid fire, what have you found to be? Oh man, I don't know if I would ask you this, but what's the hardest trade to work with? Oh man, you're going to get yourself in in trouble. You don't have to answer, but you're gonna get yourself in trouble. Everybody razzes the electricians, and some of my best friends are electric. Yeah, everybody razzes them, but they are some of the hardest working dudes they are so they know they're good.
Speaker 1:That's the hard part quick story on the electrician, and it's two in the same week at this huge apartment complex. We got going in but I'm overseeing 200 doors getting dropped at this site. And you know the way I do it is. I break it down by line item, by rough opening. That's something I instilled in them and did so. Ultimately, what was happening is they would take doors and they were putting them in the rough openings and they were running out of the right hand or the left hand, whatever they needed for the door. So I was like that's a problem. Now we're overproducing, which costs money, because customer goodwill is a real thing in construction when you mess something up. So you got to like I would situate, I'd have my team situate the doors as I inventory and check spec by rough opening, by line item. Um, and that allowed and I explained it to all the construction managers so they knew exactly what they were getting and where every door went.
Speaker 1:And then those problems stopped. Um, but we had an electrician when we were delivering. He's like no, you can't put these here. And he started telling my guys you know my, just my delivery guys to move them, which these are exterior doors and they're pretty heavy, um, some with some with glass inserts, and I was like hold on, man, like I don't want to cause you trouble, I know you got a job to do, but you know, let's talk to the project manager who came in there and he's just very Rico Suave was like no man, you were supposed to be here four hours ago. Anyway, these doors are staying here. You work around them.
Speaker 1:And then, secondly to that, I was checking the handings on these doors that we were about to build and produce for them and I noticed that the electrical box going into the back door was on the left side, but the plan was specced for a left-hand door. Now, if you're a human and you imagine going into your house opening the door from the right side of the jam and the light switch being on the left side, you'd have to open the door all the way and jump on the backside that, flip the light on. That's a no go man. Um, so like we brought that up and he had to run some wires and move some electrical terminal stuff. But yeah, they just make things difficult and they got a really specific job to do and and, quite frankly, like your wall is only so big and has so many things in it. So they you know they have a difficult job and it makes other people's lives much more difficult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I will say I have been fortunate enough to work with a lot of really good electricians. Like the last job I was on and I talked about this guy, I think, in my solo episode that he was like late 20s stellar electrician working his butt off. Guys are twice his age and he was just guys on his crew were twice his age and he was just such a good leader and it encouraged me like, hey look, the industry is in good hands with these younger guys that are coming up, but they've got a tough job, like you said, but they can make or break your site. But I've been fortunate to work with a lot of really good electricians and it's man, it's it's so much like the military where every branch teases each other. It's the same on the job site, like if you got a good set, a sense of humor I'm a carpenter by trade and of course the guys are like, oh, where's your nail polish? And you know we tease each other and it's like you have a good time and it's the same thing like you have a good time and it's the same thing, you know, in the service and that's why I think it's such a good transition.
Speaker 2:So, all that said, man, I'm going to. I'm going to wrap up here, carl. Thanks again, man. I mean this is. I've been looking forward to talking to you. I'm glad we finally jumped on this, and if there's any way that I can help you, please by all means reach out, carl and I. I I I'm not too far from you.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're kind of in the middle of nowhere in Lubbock, uh, but if you ever find yourself out in Dallas, dude, I mean, there is a meal at our home for you any day, absolutely well expect me, man. I like the Rangers, I like the Cowboys. It's been 30 years since we won a championship, so let's go.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I am not a Cowboys fan. I just talked about that on the last episode with the guy I grew up 10 minutes from Cincinnati Ohio, so I'm a Bengals fan and in fact the next season for the Rangers their opener is against the Cincinnati Reds, so you can believe I'm going to be there. I'm stoked. Yeah, man, yes, sir, that's awesome hey last thing If people want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do so?
Speaker 1:The best way to get a hold of me, I'll just plug my email address. I will never turn down an email from a vet or anybody. I get emails from people that I've served with 15, 16 years ago. I don't have social media other than LinkedIn. I'm not a fan of everybody's political opinion, quite frankly, so for my mental health I do not have a link, or I don't have a Facebook or you know anything else like that.
Speaker 2:What is the one? Everyone likes Tickertalk, and I don't. I don't have that stuff. Tickertalk, yeah, you're like aging yourself. You sound like a 60 year old man. Yeah, no, I'm sorry, but I have. I do have a.
Speaker 1:LinkedIn, carl Muller it's Carl with a K, k-a-r-l-m-u-l-l-e-r. You'll see a good picture of me on there. Also, you can hit me up at carl K-A-R-L. Dot Muller, m-u-l-l-e-r at BLDRcom. I also just want to kind of end with look, always Rangers lead the way, veterans. In construction, you can do the same thing, or any trade you're interested in. You know, and in construction, what I've learned and what I really love about is we don't just build projects right, we need to build teams, communities and a future worth fighting for, just on a different battlefield.
Speaker 2:Amen, man. What a way to close it. I appreciate you, dude. Yeah, buddy Thank you for having me. Yes, sir, absolutely.
