Eggs, Egress, And Earning Respect

What does it take to turn a 5 a.m. chow line into a blueprint for leading mission-critical construction? We sit down with Kera, a former Army culinary specialist whose real edge was never the spatula—it was logistics, compliance, and performance under pressure. She walks us through the surprising complexity of doors, frames, and hardware, where codes, egress, and security converge and where a single lock can determine safety and success across the life of a building.

We unpack how a chance mentorship shifted her from hospitality and executive support into a 19-year construction career, and why veterans thrive in this space. Kara explains how federal projects raise the stakes: if a blast door fails or a camera goes down, the impact is immediate and serious. That mission mindset reshapes design decisions, demands tighter collaboration with veteran-heavy vendor teams, and rewards leaders who can plan, adapt, and deliver.

Kera’s leadership playbook is grounded and practical: competence earns respect, not title; show up early; do what you say you’ll do; measure your impact by the growth of your people. She shares candid stories of navigating bias as a woman in a male-populated industry, choosing clarity over confrontation, and turning uncomfortable moments into teaching chances. We also dive into identity after service, the power of USO community, and how faith and a later-life degree in ministerial leadership strengthened her integrity and resilience amid personal loss.

If you’re a veteran eyeing construction—or anyone curious about how soft skills become hard results—this conversation offers a clear path forward. We cover tangible entry points across design, engineering, spec writing, logistics, project management, and field roles, and why skills and certifications can outrun degrees. Listen, share with someone in transition, and tell us: which service skill are you turning into your next career step? Subscribe, leave a review, and join us as we keep building stories that matter.

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This episode is brought to you by Memorial Ranch; A place where for our veterans and first responders to find rest and relaxation while they prepare for their next mission: LIFE

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If you're a military veteran in the construction industry, or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets, and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast you can find me at constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com , or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott Friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others!

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Kara’s Journey

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Today we're talking character later return for army experience in decades of polite leadership in technical structures. Hey Kara, thanks for joining the show. Um so to start, tell us what motivated you to join the U.S. Army and specifically serve as an executive assistant earlier on in your career. I want to go into a little bit more detail about that.

From Culinary Specialist To Logistics Lead

Why The Army And Early Motivations

SPEAKER_03 1:02

So first Scott, thanks for having me on this. This is um just right up my alley and and something I'm really passionate about talking about, um, construction and being a veteran, um, and also being a woman in both of those uh crazy male populated um areas. So I just want to say thank you for bringing me in. What I did in the army, I am actually super proud of. And I always kind of start it with a little bit different, and I say, well, admin, because I was actually a 92 golf, which by technical terms is a culinary specialist. So I was a cook, I was a cookie. That being said, my leadership learned really early on that I wasn't so good with a spatula, but I was really, really good at logistics and organization and at uh preparedness. And so while um, you know, I did not enjoy being on the line, I really enjoyed all the other things that came with supporting the line and being able to feed hundreds of soldiers at the at you know the the right time on schedule. And so I got to uniquely um kind of move off the line very quickly. And and you know, I'm not gonna say, I mean, I could make some biscuits, don't get me wrong. Everybody could, and you know, I can find this bachelor. No, I could follow a recipe and I could do all of the things, but where I really excelled early on was like leading that platoon and making sure people were there supposed to be, and then also helping our soldiers who were um not accustomed to eating correctly, and they were kind of phasing out the nutritionist piece um into garrison into healthcare. And I was stationed, I should have started, we were in a unique situation. I was stationed in a very small base um in Kitzigan, Germany. Um, it is southern Bavaria. Absolutely stunning. I was too young to really even understand how awesome and lucky I was to be there in true, you know, in looking back. Um, but it was the leadership that just recognized strengths of our teams very quickly and putting people in the right place to succeed for the better mission of supporting our soldiers. So that's why I start always start, especially now. If you say I was a cook, some people look at that and they're like, oh, you were just a cook. Like anybody could do that. And yes, anyone could read a recipe, but not anyone could get up and be in that kitchen at two o'clock in the morning because after PT, they're ready to eat at 5 a.m. And not everyone could make sure that we had, you know, the strict sanitation guidelines in a field in 32 inches of snow when we're sitting there for 50 days in training, right? And so I really like to highlight that there are more pieces and aspects of just being a culinary specialist or a 92 golf, and not everyone was flipping eggs on a spatula. And I'll be honest with you, those guys that were doing and flipping those eggs on a spatula, we had fun. Like they were good at it. They made people wanted to eat in our garrison in kids again, and they wanted to um to share and support and took a lot of pride in what we did during that time. So that's I guess I should have gone a little bit further back because you did ask why did I join the army in that? Why did I join the army in that? I really enjoyed hospitality, and there were some wonderful recruiters who showed just the different opportunities that that MOS provided. I loved the hospitality in the invent field.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

So you had you transitioned from the military service into a second career after that. Um, how did your army experience shape your early professional identity? I'll call it.

Transition To Hospitality And Events

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Oh, it shaped it greatly, actually. Um, and and what's really funny is I didn't go right into construction either. When I left um the military, I was full board, like ready to do event planning, large-scale event planning. And I'd gotten a really good little piece of it because of working with leadership um in Germany. That facility was used for a lot of dignitary events. And I got charged with making sure that they flowed and were put together well, which was really an awesome experience for how young I was and just the experience that I lacked, really. I kind of got thrown into the fire and just and told to do it. So when I came back, I went right into hospitality and and large-scale meeting event planning. I was hired as the executive assistant to the um the uh executive director for the Society for Neuroscience. And this woman was brutal. And actually, the reason why her staff hired me was because they figured that if I had just left the military, that I would be able to handle her because she was so demanding. And and between those two um pieces of my, I'll say they were really instrumental in my personal growth and just what leadership looked like, good and bad. Because I saw both in both in both places, right? And it really helped just um mold me into the kind of leader that I wanted to become, and for the kind of people that I wanted to have mentor me. And so um, I'll be honest, I didn't even think of getting into construction until years later when I was ready to have, I was starting my family, my family and working in the hospitality industry, what I which I absolutely adored. Um it just didn't work for my family. You know, I couldn't be a mom uh when my son entered kindergarten and I'm working nights and weekends and doing these events that were perfect for when he was in, you know, when I could stay home with him during the day and I could have other family members support at night without putting him in um childcare. But I also knew that I was a better mom when I worked. And so I had an opportunity from uh a woman in the industry, the construction industry, specifically security and uh a very small niche, doors, frames, and hardware, who said, I know here, we've learned that you are a very good, well-organized person. And if we can take an organized person and teach them construction, doors, frames, hardware, we think you could be really successful. And they took a shot at me because of you know my attention to detail and just what I had learned about schedule and logistics that really had started with a strong foundation in military. And I'm at year 19, Scott, in the construction industry now. Yeah, because what they thought would click, it did, and it clicked really well for me.

Entering Construction Through Mentorship

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, and I I have said before, I'm pretty sure on the show too, door frames and hardware was never my favorite scope, and I'm not saying that in a bad way, it's just it is so stinking complicated. And so I had all the credit, and the company you work with now, and we'll get into that, but I've worked with that company, I've worked with, I think, a couple other companies you've worked for in the past, and I had the utmost respect for the project management team and the field team because it's not just hey, throw this knob on the door. There's a lot more detail that goes into it sound ratings, swings of the doors because of the egress path, all that. And I've I know I've shared this story before on the show where my very first project, I was living up there where you're at. Um, so I was in in the DC area, and we had a senior superintendent, and his only job was the doors, frames, and the hardware, all the openings uh on the site, and his his walls were just plastered with the door schedule because it was so complicated and it was a government job. Um, so there was a lot that you you uh go into in that, and I know that's that's a specialty of yours we'll get into as well. Um, so kudos to you for being a door nerd. I mean, it's not an easy job, um, but I love that you got into that. Um, and I want to back up a little bit into your your army career. So we talked about some of the skills that you had learned. Um, what do you think you would say a skill that maybe you didn't realize you were developing at the time when you were doing the executive assistant role or the cook role that you kind of have seen come to light since you've gotten out?

SPEAKER_03 9:28

This there's actually three words that come to mind when you ask that and you say that that have really been instrumental in my success in the transition, and it's logistics, compliance, and performance. And those three things you had no idea. I had no idea when I was meeting schedule and making sure that that chow line opened on time, right? And that things were cooked ready and all the way through, that that was really um setting a foundation for me to just understand urgent needs at every level and that no job is too small. No job. If one person doesn't show up, 200 people might not eat on time, right? And so it was really those three things, then compliance. The reason why I say that is because, oh my goodness, the sanitation requirements to keep soldiers healthy in field garrison, we're not just handing you MREs, right? We're giving you hot meals when we can, especially in Germany when we're training for 50 some days in really cold, treacherous weather. And that they might get one hot meal a day, if that, depending on where the training was and what we were doing. And then performance. I mean, we have to perform our best for everyone else to be able to perform their best as well. There's so many things that are just reliant on each other in construction and just in, you know, mobilization and just getting the job done that's beyond yourself. So those are the three things that I think are really what set me apart in this industry that that came from my time in the army.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, and I'm I'm glad you brought that up too. I I've talked to people over the years, like there's all these hands that touch this product from it being manufactured to the time it goes in, to the people, you know, I was a superintendent, so I'm the one looking at making sure it went in right and looking at the plan inspection. So like all these things have to align. But I think veterans are really good because we we work so cohesively as that team. We trust each other to do the job the right way. And in a perfect world, it all comes together. Um, so we went through your start into the construction industry. So this is you said this woman was just kind of somebody you knew uh through the industry. Were you guys friends, or did you meet at a networking event? How did that come about?

The Complexity Of Doors, Frames, Hardware

Hidden Skills: Logistics, Compliance, Performance

SPEAKER_03 11:50

It was a family friend of my sister who knew I was looking for a change and wanted uh, you know, more structured, like nine to five kind of job. And and she was looking for someone that just I think she was kind of fed up with what she had had in the past of people that knew a bunch of door nerds who weren't very organized but were really good at technical door stuff. And she just wanted to try something new with her next hire. And and and I got to be that lucky person, to be honest. And um, it's been she's been a great mentor to me. Her name is Robin Snyder. And, you know, she she one of the first things you talk about being a door nerd, one of the first things she taught me, and and I'm talking old school teach with I had catalogs, we you know, the internet was there. I'm not that old, but come on, you know, we're not, we weren't emailing submittals wasn't a thing yet when I started, right? We were still making seven copies that were 700 pages deep and sending them to the GCs on Friday afternoons. And one of that, that was my job, one of them, right? I still faxed pages of door machine sheets that were made by hand to order the doors that we did. So that just to give you a little background of where we started. Um and it when she gave me that opportunity, I I I really valued it. I mean, I didn't have any energy, zero construction industry knowledge. When they hired me, um, I was actually pregnant with my third son. And we had been talking for months, and then it was finally like, okay, come in. And I was like, Oh, you guys are serious. And I'm like, you do know now that like I'm having a baby in April, and it was like January. And I said, You sure you still want to do this? You know, I know nothing. And they said, Well, what really, what do you know about, you know, doors frames and hardware? And my response to this day, I like to tell is I know how to turn a knob and walk through one. That was what I knew, right? And so, I mean, I'm not gonna express. Yeah, yeah, hey, listen, that's the other thing I learned in the army. Like, you cannot fake the funk. If you don't know, it's better to just say you don't know uh rather than to try to fake it. Fake it till you make it can get someone dead in the army. You that that doesn't that doesn't help anyone, right? Ask questions. Um, and I actually want to go backwards just one little bit on something that you said. You know, when we're talking about construction in the army and where are they the most similar, one of the things I like to bring up to veterans who are maybe thinking about getting into doors, frames, and hardware, the security industry, is that in military, we are taught we have one chance to execute mission. And sometimes that means life or death, right? We have one chance. And construction is no different. We are being asked to build something that's never ever been built before because every project is different. You might use a similar mechanical system, you might, but that no piece of ground and where you're building, and we're being asked to build it and make zero mistakes. And and it kind of plays back into what you were saying with everything that has to do with um, you know, even just doors, frames, and hardware and how intricate they can be. Um the door is the most touched object, a lock specifically, in a building for its entire lifespan. It is the most used, it is the most touched. And again, everyone who is using it is expected to know exactly how it works.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

And there's actually very few people that do.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah, especially all this intricacies uh with the doors themselves, the lock types, all that stuff. And you know, obviously I'm using the term door nerd like as a term of endearment because I have nothing but respect for people that dive so far into those details. Um, it's an extremely complicated uh piece uh or division, if you will. Um, so uh let me let me kind of talk about your leadership skills as well, and and backing up real quick. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when she had presented you. Uh Robin had asked you, hey, are you interested indoors? Because if you're anything like me, like I didn't know much about getting into insurance. And my response was like, I don't like salespeople, I don't want to do this. Uh, but I I think the military really trains people too with a lot of the soft skills, and I think that's probably what she saw in you. And I I know my leadership saw in me is that like we can teach people these skills, but you really can't teach somebody how to have integrity and things like that, and and the stick-tuativeness and all these soft skills that we want people to have. So it sounds like she saw something in you, and and you went through a couple tough years um with that that leadership that you went through as that executive assistant. So I'm really glad that that worked out for you. Um, so so as far as the leadership goes, how do you how would you, and this is a very broad question, how would you define leadership, especially compared to how you might have viewed it earlier in your career?

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah, that's a great question, Scott.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

And I would say, you know, I didn't start my leadership journey in a boardroom. I didn't start it in an executive table or, you know, in charge of lots of people. You know, we we were taught early on in the military that we started our leadership performance at the ground level, right, by doing the right thing and by supporting each other. I don't think that's changed for me. I really want to put people first in my leadership role. And and that's what leaders mean for me. I mean, you know, leaders eat last, all the books, all the things that you can read, uh unreasonable hospitality, all the things that you can link that just show a leader is helping someone else grow and it's helping someone else be successful. And I have learned through patience, I've learned through good and bad leadership skills. I'm sure that the people I've led will tell you that I have failed just as much as I've won, as I've become a different kind of leader in different units of just the construction industry. But I've the most joy I get is by seeing others succeed. And just this year, one of the associates that was working with me early on in his Dorf Raymond hardware career, and I feel like I've been an advocate, and I'll call myself a seed planter for him. I don't even want to say that I was a leader because my goal for him was just to help him get where he wanted to go next. And he was just promoted to branch operations manager. And this is a this is a guy who started, I was gonna say kid, but he's not a kid. This is a guy who started, was it was an install, um installer for a family business in shower doors. So he had a great technical skill knowledge. He really just hadn't been in an office, and he just needed, you know, he just needed to be given the wings to be successful. He's OCD when it comes to detail, which is so important in Doors Rims and Harbor. And now, like again, like he has made my month. His promotion has made my month. And there's, you know, more stories like that. His is just the most recent, but that to me is a leader. I am more excited about his growth and seeing him succeed than anything that's going on currently in my own portfolio.

Defining Leadership And Growing Others

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, I love that. And I that is one piece of the industry, you know. I'm I'm still kind of tied into it, but what I really enjoyed was I'd go off, you know, I go to the next project. So the folks working with me, and then I get to come back to a project, maybe they're the the trade on that job, and I haven't seen them in two years, and all of a sudden this person's a foreman, and I get to hear about their growth. I get really excited about that, especially if I had a hand in it. Um, I had one electrician, oh gosh, this is I don't know, a decade ago, maybe close to that. And I he was just doing great. He was maybe a year or so into the field, and he wasn't the foreman. Uh, I don't even think he was a crew lead. And his his performance just really stood out to me. He had a good head on his shoulders, he was doing fantastic, and I so I decided to send a personal note to his leadership and tell him, like, hey, I'm really impressed with this guy, and come to find out, like, that apparently got him um either a bonus, it played into his promotion, and now I think he's running the estimating department of that company, and so I'm not saying it's because of what I did, but it was just the the the satisfaction of man, I'm really glad to see him succeed. And sometimes it's tough love, as you've probably seen too. I mean, I've had some some guys put in my charge where I saw something in them, they just kind of needed a good push. And not that I was I was never a yeller and a screamer, but it was I'm this guy needs some boundaries and he needs some sort of a structure in his life. It sounds like they just nobody took an interest in them, and then seeing them get promoted because it's like, man, they just needed to be in the right environment. So I'm really gonna miss that. And I think the construction industry does that better than anything because the world is your oyster. I mean, it rewards that hard work for sure.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

It it really does, and you can see it building, and I'll you know, and and you know, transparency, honesty coming in from the beginning. When I when I first realized I was getting pretty good at what I was doing in this, I I let people know I was pretty good at what I was doing. There wasn't much leadership coming out at that time, I'll be honest. Like I felt like I was breaking through and I felt like it was hard. Scott, if this is that part where coming in and realizing that there were differences and there were stigmas because I was a female in this industry that I wasn't taken quite as um, I don't want to say taken seriously, but I it it it was a little bit harder for me to be break through and get a seat at the table. And that wasn't for everyone. I mean, there were amazing mentors, both men and women, that did. They opened the door, pulled out the chair, you know, and and brought me right up. But there were still those uh, you know, good old clubs that that were not as accepting. And I think that it was new to me because I had trains in the army. My basic training was with men. We trained together. I never felt less than. And I'm not saying I can do as many pull-ups. We won't have that debate today. That's not that's not what I'm arguing. I'm not saying everyone should, you know, we're not gonna have those back and forth debates, but just about respecting someone, not just because they um think they deserve it, but because they've earned that respect. That took a little while in some cases, with some people that I work with. And to this day, there are still parts of this country where I go in as a as a female that has been in this industry for 19 years and they want me to prove myself. But what I learned in the army is that competence earns respect, not title, not volume, a thousand percent not ego. And when I started redirecting the conversations in some of those tables where I felt like there may have been a treatment that was less than what was earned, what my competence level deserved, instead of getting bitter, I tried to make everyone better. I tried to reword things in different ways so that people would understand that that might not have been the most professional way to ask me, but I'm going to show you my competence through it without calling you out and without making it a big deal. Right. And I'll be honest, there are people that I talked to, I would wait until after the meeting and I'll say, Hey, did you know that you did this during a meeting? Or did you notice that at the end of the meeting, he shook your hand, but not mine, and I had run the meeting. And I made my own coworkers and they were like, wow, I didn't even notice. And I said, I don't think it was intentional because I know this person, but I want you to see that there are differences that we have to break through in this industry still to this day, just because people are unconscious bias. They're just not paying attention to it. And I think that that is something because of my experience in the military, because there were so many different backgrounds. I mean, there were people that I met that had barely been out of Mississippi, you know, and I grew up in the DC area, like you said. And so I was I had a lot more diversification in the schools that I grew up in. And I, and I just it was a different kind of respect. And that pulls right into my leadership and just talking about making people better. I could call someone out, I could make them look littled if I felt offended, or I could ask questions and really get to the root of like, did you even really mean to offend? Did you even really know what you were doing? Because I nine times out of ten, it probably wasn't on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah. No, I appreciate that you kind of let the knowledge do the talking. Um, let me ask you this. I have my own um opinion, if you will, where I I have seen um the the industry go as go as far as support of females in the construction industry and in the military for that matter, but I I want your opinion. Do you think it has gotten better uh for for women in this in the construction industry? And and when I say better, I mean opportunities, um uh opportunities for growth, opportunities for positions, um, the industry's pushing for more females. I have my opinion. I'm really curious on yours.

Women In Construction: Barriers And Progress

SPEAKER_03 26:03

So it's you know, I have I have differing opinions for different parts of it, right? Um, I will say that there are organizations now, and people are aware that we have a great shortage of skilled labor in the construction industry. And that female component can greatly help that. And I think that there is more um acknowledgement and that there's more opportunity for women to grow in this field than ever before. But I asked that same question of the people that brought me into this industry first, the Robin Snyders, the Mary Bakers. I could go on with just the women who who truly pioneered it. And in some cases, might have had to put them uh, you know, a man up against the wall if he said the wrong thing to her, really. Like they were the real people who broke through in this industry when no women were really in this industry, right?

unknown 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

And if you ask them, they'll say there's never been a problem. You know, they look at it and they're like, what problem? You know, I made it. Come on, Kara, figure it out. I made it easier for you, right? But if you look at it from that leadership perspective, for me, when I started in this industry, there were a lot of people that said, you have to, you have to pay your dues first. Like it takes time, you have to pay your dues. I don't believe in that anymore. So I believe that there's always room for growth and there's always room to make it better. I think that we are every year getting closer to that point. Do I see a need for DI? Do I see a need for all of these things that are so big, shiny words right now that everyone wants to debate? I'm not gonna debate the words. What I see a need for is getting people in general more comfortable with being uncomfortable with things they don't know. Period. That's it. It it's it's that simple. If you're not used to working with people from another country or you're not used to working with people from a different gender, you need to get comfortable doing that because it's the only way we're all gonna grow this industry to where it really should be. And and so it's a catch-22. Are we paid the same yet? No. Are we given the same high-level executive opportunities? No. Have some women broken through on that? Yes. I challenge those women to help bring the others up, but I also challenge them to make sure that they are hiring the best person for the job, not just because of a gender or a diverse diversity issue.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah, yeah, and I've seen that too. And I guess my opinion is, and I don't know if I'm just I've been exposed more, but you see things like Nawick and those kind of organizations really taking off. Um in my mindset, I think it's a generational thing too. Kind of like you said, the old guard is kind of retiring out, that mentality is kind of dying off. And my mentality has been kind of where the military's been going in the last few years. It's can you meet the standard? I mean, it it not that I don't care. I mean, I I love people, that's why I do what I do, that's why I did what I did in construction. I really loved leading and learning people, and so my whole thing was look, can you can you put this project together? Can you do this and meet the standards? What I expect, regardless of where you're from or what you look like. My big thing was that yes, I I love that. I want to learn more about you as a person. However, we got a job to do, we have a mission in front of us that we have to execute. So I I do think the mindset's changing a little bit. Um, and when I talk about the opportunities, I think it's just become more public now. Um, it's at the forefront more than ever, at least in the last, I don't know, five years or so. And I think groups, and I always bring it back to Nawick, I think that's a really good one, at least here in Dallas, um, that they're doing a really good job talking about those opportunities. But I have seen the flip side of it too. Like you said, I I've worked under leadership that it was she was a female and she was hiring females because they were just that, and we're going, this person's not qualified for the job. Right. And so, but you see that on the men's side too. It's hey, this is my my nephew or my my cousin or my buddy or whatever. I just I know them, and I don't think it's a male-driven thing, it's just like this is somebody I know. So it's like, you know, what do you do?

Veterans’ Strengths In Mission-Critical Work

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Well, and let's talk about let's talk about veterans in that case, right? Female veterans, male veterans that are coming into the construction industry. This is why the construction industry is so good for them. They are used to being dropped in situations where they have absolutely no idea what's about to happen and just do, and just do with whoever they're with, right? They have to work with who they're with for their survival, for just to get through training. I mean, take out of a combat situation. I was never in combat, but if I wanted to get through my training for, you know, whether it be a field situation or or or whatever it is, you have to work together. There's no, you don't have to be best friends, but you have to learn how to help each other and get through it. And I think that that's what positions um the construction industry and all of the different opportunities, you know, from doors, frames, and hardware to security. Our company now, we represent it's so hard for me to do an elevator pitch for our company because we've diversified construction so much. And there's anything from design to engineering to spec writing to technical field skills, uh, project management, uh, logistics. There are so many aspects of it now that it requires multi-level cooperation and collaboration to get that project done. And, you know, I'll tell you the dwarf and hardware industry was is was still behind technology. We are catching up. The leaps and bounds that we've made in five years and our competitors have made, because I don't want to be agnostic, but we are finally coming out of the stone ages. You know, we were probably the last ones to send over those packages of submittals hand copied, right? Everyone else is using cat. But I, you know, I'm I'm so proud of this industry now. We have a we have a really good um thing. Uh another organization, um SAI, Security Industry Association, just recently in the last two years, started a veterans group to help veterans get into the security industry. That is all part of construction. You know, we've kind of siloed some of these things. I'll tell you, um, I am now this year, Cooking Boardman. We started a women's business resource group that I got to be an architect with. And now we're moving on to our veterans group. So when you asked me to do this podcast, you know, I did have some selfish reasons, and this is one of them. We are, you know, we see greatly the um collaboration between bringing our vets into the security industry and them understanding mission critical. And that kind of leads into the group that I'm now leading for our company under, you know, our federal um opportunities and just how it changes the game. When you do construction, it's I'm so proud. I I think you said this in one of your past episodes. It's so cool to show your kids what you're doing, right? Well, my kids, when they were little, my my two oldest boys, they got to go to events like that had moon bounces and ponies. And that was really cool because I did events, right? And then I went into construction and they were like, now we just get to look at blueprints and use highlighters. Like, mom, not so cool, right? Well, years later, my middle son has just joined our company and is now in project assistant project manager for one of our brands. One of my proudest moments is my son coming into this industry because there are so many opportunities for him. And and not even wanting to pigeonhole him. I know he's going to be a great project manager, but I'm like, don't set, you know, don't think that's the only piece that you can do in construction, right? And there are so many opportunities for us to grow in and to bring veterans in to really succeed and use the skills that they've learned in any MOS. I argue that you could take any MOS and that you can put this into construction. And because of what I do now, supporting federal construction projects, 90% of who I work with in vendor relations, custom relations, manufacturing are all veterans. And it is really, really fun when we all get together and we are at our we are doing mission critical construction work. You know, my team understands if that security camera goes down, or my team understands if that door, if that blast door fails, people die if we don't get it right. And I have never been more proud to serve our industry than to be able to serve in this capacity. And, you know, this this capacity I was given this opportunity by our former CEO, uh Derek Anderson. He's no longer associated with our companies, with another company now, and Joe Harrell, who is the president of our company. And I don't even think they knew what it meant or what we were gonna make it. And what we've done is we have built this mission critical program that I can go in and I can I can understand when I'm talking to um NAFAC or I'm sitting in meetings with a lot of cadre, and they are asking for things that someone that has not been in that military situation doesn't understand. And when you understand mission critical work in a construction industry where you still want to be innovative, you still want these uh soldiers to be able to work in conditions that are not so institutional and that are better for living. And we're building barracks now that make more sense and are safe for our soldiers, but have a privacy level to them. You know, it really matters. I think to my USO days. I think about my first Christmas in Germany when I had no, you know, family and who took care of me. I think about that when I'm working on these projects, and it just makes it different.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah. I love that big picture approach. I built hospitals for a while, and the best leadership I worked under was, you know, your kids could be seen at this hospital someday. So thinking about the big picture, because the day-to-day is tough. I mean, on site, it's difficult in long hours, but we're like, we're doing this for a bigger reason, right? So um I want to, I wanna, no pun intended, I want to transition to talking about transition, actually. And I want to talk about your identity after your service a little bit. I've been focusing on that a lot lately uh on the show, and I'm curious, how would you describe your identity today? Uh, back when you compared it when you first left the army. I know it took me a long time sort of to adjust and find out who I was and kind of get comfortable in my own skin. And I don't identify as that. It's something I did, I'm proud of it, and I think most vets are, uh, but but how would you describe your identity today versus back then?

SPEAKER_03 37:27

You know, I I I was so young, Scott. You know, I I went, I did one year of college, and then that just wasn't for me. And I I say I was an old soul and I needed to get out of town, and I wanted, I wanted an experience. Like I wanted to go and do something. I it's so cliche to say I wanted to do something meaningful, but I wanted to do something meaningful I did. And when I left, my reasons were a little, you know, when I went in, I think we're all gonna be lifers, right? This is gonna be awesome. I'm gonna do everything. And I had some pretty power, uh amazing um uh leaders around me who were lifers and or were in the middle of it and and we're gonna, you know, continue on. But I also saw the family aspect of it as a female, and I watched female soldiers have to send their children to their mother so they could deploy, and that they wouldn't be raising their children for up to a year or 18 months, even in some cases. And when it came time for me to re-up, the reality was that was not a life that I was willing to trade or do. And I, and and you know, I had helped, I was that one who babysat for some of my married soldiers because you know, there were families in Germany who who I babysat for them when they needed a mom and dad night out because they're in Germany, none of their families are there. And I really enjoyed doing that, you know, um, and to be able to help them in those cases. But it was just not going to be a long-term lifestyle for me. But when I came out, I had a unique uh situation in that I had some family members who had transitioned before me and were really, they were just very blunt with me on how it was going to be and how it was gonna be seen. And when I got back, some of my friends were still finishing their college, you know, time. They were, I mean, I I was still young and they were, you know, in their master's programs and I couldn't relate to them well at my age. Um, I I found myself with family members or friends that were seven to 10 years older than me. It was kind of who I related to. And that was difficult. And um it was, yeah, it was hard. I will say that it was hard. I wish I knew of more direct resources for transition. Um, we were kind of we were in between um conflicts, which I'm I'm blessed for that, that my service was in between conflicts. So there really wasn't that much um spotlight on transitioning then for soldiers out. And so I was kind of left to my own and I was just lucky to have family members. But to find my identity, I I don't think that I was really telling everyone, hey, I'm a veteran, like wearing it on my sleeve like I do now, until years later, when someone had asked me something about my time in the military. And I was like, Well, you know, why are you asking me? And they were like, Because you were in the military. And you just didn't even wear that as a badge of honor just yet, you know, and and people don't understand, people look at it and they're when they say I wasn't in combat, I make that very clear to people because I don't want them to get the wrong idea. There are people that suffered greatly in their time of service, and I would say more times than not, I benefited from my time in service more than I suffered, even if I didn't realize it at the time, right? There's always that low period when you're by yourself and you're a single soldier and your family's over and you're by yourself. And we didn't have uh FaceTime and internet, and my mom's phone bill was through the roof on calls because we didn't have the same kind of communication back then. But it yeah, it was hard. It was a really hard thing to identify as a veteran right when you got out.

Identity After Service And Belonging

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Yeah, my my dad is a Vietnam era vet, and I I think that's generational too, as far as like the GWAT vets goes. Our generation was we could be a little bit more outspoken about our service. I think as the country kind of shifted back towards a lot more appreciation. Not that they didn't back then, I think there were people that did, but he and I have discussed that. I mean, he's shared stories about he he came home and he's getting off the plane and he's in his uniform, people are spitting on him, and and just horrible things. Um, and thankfully, things have shifted towards the better, the veteran support, um, the transition support as well. It's changed even since I've gotten out with programs like Skillbridge. Uh the TAPS programs have gotten a lot better. Um, so I really appreciate your your your um your experience in that and sharing that because that is a lot different from when I got out, because I got out off active duty in 2011, so we were right in the the thick of it, and so the the public view of veterans were a lot different then. Um so we were very outspoken, like hey, this not that it was like a leg up, but it was hey, this is something I experienced, so you kind of know what my background was, and I think the public maybe in years prior were not less educated, but um I just don't think had as much of it in their face as they did uh when we were in GWAD. But um, so so in the transition and even now, what has kind of helped you stay grounded, I'll say, and connected to the community throughout your whole journey? So, like after your transition, um rising up through the ranks in construction. So I mentioned Nawick earlier. Are you part of any kind of vet veteran uh networks or mentorship groups, anything like that that's played a big role for you?

SPEAKER_03 42:59

So for me, I I did I was not a part of veteran networks during um any of that early time. What I have done is support USL very greatly in more than one region. But then what I've also done is um joined the Security Industry Association Veteran Network. And now what I'm doing at Cook and Boardman as my give back, and and let's talk situationally. You know, I think I mentioned to you offline before we we got on, I had three sons in the mix of all of this career stuff. And this is year 19 for this career for me. And my sons are 25, 24, and 19. And I put all of my free time into them when I was not working. And you know, the construction industry is not an eight-hour a day job, period. Um, and so I helped run their football programs. And even when they got older, I needed something for me. I coached girls' high school basketball for a little while as an assistant coach for five C's. I did a lot in my community. And also I've supported some decisions of their peers that went into the military and just being there for them as an advocate, as a mentor to give them knowledge that I wasn't given when I was making those decisions, whether it be National Guard or their MOS decisions and how it would affect them. And so now I'm kind of in that next step. Again, Nawick, I was, you know, am involved with uh professional women uh builders through um the National Association of Home Builders. I'm involved in that group. And now this is kind of like a phase three for me. It's like, okay. Okay, now we see this, these shortages. We see a need for these soldiers that are coming out, or I shouldn't say they're all soldiers, but servicemen and women. And I want to help grow that. And that's where Cooking Boardman is getting behind the veterans that we already have and finding the needs and creating that business resource group for them now. But I would say more of my support has been through personal relationship and um and USO. I cannot tell you how wonderful it feels to go to an airport and welcome in the deployed with a USO team. It is absolutely amazing. And to do gift baskets for them at the holidays, I one of my fondest memories was waking up on Christmas morning and having a stocking left outside of my barracks door. It really meant a lot.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

You felt seen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Well, and I guess the reason I ask mainly about the organizations too, because I think a lot of vets, myself included, when you first get out, you you miss the team, you miss the group that you're with, your command. Um, and and you've got to really rebuild your confidence in who you are. And so for the younger veterans that are entering the workforce, because we do have active duty folks that listen to this. So folks that are entering the workforce, especially in construction or business, what do you think your advice would be for building that confidence as they find their new identity?

SPEAKER_03 45:58

Reach out to everyone. Do not wait. Don't hesitate to ask for someone, a fellow veteran, or to just even, I mean, always ask, always talk, whether it's LinkedIn. If you see me on LinkedIn, I'll tell you right now, reach out to me. I will try to connect you with someone that helps you grow and gets into whatever industry you're you're reaching out to. I mean, I think that we're all here for each other. And so often people just don't ask.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Yeah.

unknown 46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

I don't know if that's a pride thing too, but I I totally get it. Yeah. Um, so I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of take a turn real quick, throw you for a curveball here. Um, so your major, and I looked this up on your LinkedIn, you majored in ministerial leadership, is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 46:43

I did, I did, and we have that in common, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:46

We do, we do. So I and I I bring that up because a lot of vets, uh, especially lately, lean on their faith or personal philosophy, whatever you want to call it, when they when they're navigating that change. Do you think, or I guess I'll ask how, has your spiritual life or worldview, how has that influenced your leadership and the way you work?

Community, USO, And Giving Back

SPEAKER_03 47:07

You know, that was a very late in life decision for me. When I left the military, I did not use my GI Bill, unfortunately. I was um, I I my family came before I got a chance to use it. And it was one of those things that in the construction industry, while I, you know, I'm a huge proponent of education, but it is not for everyone. And the construction industry is one of those amazing fields that you can become extremely successful in without having a degree. And at the same time, I felt really compelled in my own spiritual journey and my leadership and my faith to really um connect with people was was was coming because of my faith. I it it had really gosh, from the minute you're handed that little Bible, uh, I still have my field Bible, by the way, that we could pick up and and enjoy a Sunday service um during our chaplain will be so proud right now. I still have it. And actually, one of my one of my good friends early in Germany was the you know chaplain assistant, and she was amazing. And I have stuck around my main my faith through so many trials and tribulations in in life with you know kids and marriage and everything that comes with it. And at the end of the day, that it is my faith in God that keeps my integrity where it is. And it is my faith in uh with the things that we have seen in the military and the things that we know that we're fighting against in our missions. If you don't have God, it's really hard to grab on to anything else. And when I decided that I wanted to pursue a degree, I didn't need it in engineering for what I did. I didn't need it in accounting, I didn't need it in one of those businesses fields because I'm very successful in what I do. But I felt really strongly that if I could better myself and get that degree that I always wanted to get, if I did it through ministry, I could help more people and myself grow in so many ways. And I will tell you that the courses that I took through Freedom School of Ministry and um Southeastern University, they came at a time of enormous loss in my life. I had two very good friends lose children unexpectedly, one to cancer and one to a very freak accident on spring break. And being enrolled in those classes during that time, being able to navigate such loss during such chaos and do it knowing that our God is still good and that it's not Him that creates this. Um, it it it it it is humbling, it makes you remember why you're doing what you're doing because it's not for the paycheck. That's how we state, you know, we I don't we're doing it for that greater mission. If we were doing it for a paycheck, we'd find something way easier to do in con than construction, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

And and it was just it was one of those things that I I can honestly say, I think I God just called me to finish. And that I there were a lot of late nights. I worked full-time during it. Um, and I finished, and it was is one of my prouder moments, and one of the things that I think has really set my leadership to a next level.

Faith, Integrity, And Finishing The Degree

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah, I love that. No, I my my whole background on why I went for my undergrad. Um, I thought I was gonna be a full-time pastor just because my faith kind of drifted away during my time in the service. And when I got out, I met my wife at our church at the time. That's where I really found Christ was then. Um, the only reason I went to seminaries because you have to have that in order to be a chaplain. It was not it wasn't fun. I learned a ton. Um, but you know, I I I when I found out, hey, I'm gonna stick with construction, I really enjoyed it, I love the people, I treated that as my ministry. And all the guys knew what my faith background was. I was very outspoken about it. And so sometimes on the job side, it was almost like a counseling session sometimes, people just pouring out their hearts to me, which was great. Um, I want to I want to bring up something you said about, and this is this is separate from the faith discussion, but you talked about people being super successful uh in construction without needing the degree, and I 100% agree with you on that. My wife was a teacher, and we both agree not everybody's meant to go to school, and that's okay. You see a lot of successful trades folks that did not use their college degree. The good thing about the GI Bill is you can use it for trade schools and all kinds of different trading training now. I think they even just added a year onto it. So I I myself have looked at there's a technical school up the road. I'm going, man, I could go back and get a welding certificate or something because I I love welding. Um, there was a guy who was at the time, he's retired now, but a company I was working for that was the CEO, a veteran as well. He started as a laborer, and I couldn't tell you what the company was their revenue was at the time, but I know they're doing over$300 million now, and he was the CEO. He worked his way up, never got his degree, and that that's a testament to the hard work and learning the skills. And I was fortunate enough, the first company I worked at, they're up there in DC. The I couldn't tell you what his his title was at the time. He ended up being um like co-president before he retired, but he was pretty high up at the time, and he did the same job I did in the Navy. And we went out to lunch and he said, Look, focus on certifications, focus on understanding the job first, put put the college to the side for now. Yeah, it's important, but you really don't need it for everything in that industry. So that's 100% true for anybody listening. Yes, it's good, and yes, absolutely, you need it for certain jobs, but in construction, not many.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

And it's also feasible to work there, there are hours now in the construction industry that make it an accessible career choice for women with children, for single parents, for people that want to go back to school and do the construction. It's gone are the times where it has to be a certain time of day anymore. There are all kinds of hours and there's all kinds of ways to work in the construction industry and learn. I mean, we have our, you know, I beyond veterans, like our I talk about first responders in the same way I talk about veterans because my sister is a paramedic firefighter. And yes, this is the part where my mom listens to it and says, if I don't mention her, you know, um my mom jokes, she put my sister and I in ballet and and jazz and piano lessons, and my sister became a firefighter paramedic and I joined the army and now work in construction, right? She's like, What did I do wrong? And I say, What did you do right? Like, this is amazing. Like we had, we we you made us so confident that we could be in these non, you know, um typical roles for women and succeed, right? And I look at the the president of my company right now, he started, and if I get this wrong, Joe, I apologize, but you know, he started in the fire department as well. And he came into our accounting office, and then he was doing firefighting and accounting at the same time, and then he worked his way through college while working for our company, and then he got his MBA, and I don't know how far he went above that, but now he's the president of our company. Those are the kind of things that are taught in those, you know, first responders, veteran places of foundational growth and leadership. And sometimes all it takes is that seed planting or that push to that veteran and anyone that's listening that is about to um transition or that is just needs the confidence to come into an industry they know nothing about. I'm gonna remind you what I said at the beginning of this podcast. When they asked me, and I was at that point, I was six months pregnant, so I was showing guys it was number three, and I'm sitting in this interview with these people who have done this, you know, for 20 years, and at that time, maybe more. Jim Irman gave me the opportunity with Robert Snyder, and they said to me, What do you know about doors? And I said, I know how to walk through one and turn my handle. That's it. And they said, Okay, well, we're gonna give you a shot because we know that your background shows that you have integrity, and we think that if you were in the military, you did this. There's just there are things that you need to use to your advantage about being in the military that people just know that you have a one up on being successful in this business industry.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Yeah, very much so. Absolutely. And I think we need to encourage the vets to really dig into that too. You have something special that you might not realize until you're years out, but you have a lot of those soft skills too that people are looking for. You can teach people the job, you can't teach that integrity and some of the soft skills they've learned. Um all right, so as we as we start to wrap up, I'm gonna give you some rapid fire stuff real quick. Just some kind of quick hits, short answer things. Uh best leadership lesson you learned in the army.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Be on time.

unknown 56:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

That's a good that means early, right? That means early.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

15 minutes at least. 15 minutes early is on time. Um, what is your best leadership lesson you learned in the private sector?

SPEAKER_02 57:00

Do what you say you're going to do.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

I love it. Yep. Um, is there any book or podcast that changed your thinking? And don't say mine, that's the easy low-hanging fruit.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

Yeah, I it's unreasonable hospitality.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Okay. That's a book.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

It's a book.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

Okay. I am noting that as we speak. I'll look at the book.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

It is a great book. And and you know, I love the construction industry, but there's something about a really good, fun event that's you know, I I'm torn between two industries, right? One I started it and one I'm I'm finishing it, but it's a great book.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Okay, and last rapid fire, what one piece of advice to your younger self would you give when you were leaving the military?

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Don't limit yourself.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Okay. Very good. Well, with that, I appreciate it, Cara. This has been really enjoyable. Thank you so much. And you didn't know when we started this, I actually I wanted to highlight um I had other female vets, but I really wanted to highlight one this episode. Um, so I'm really glad we went into detail more about that, and especially as uh you moving into kind of a male-dominated industry. Um so I'm glad we we covered all that too. So uh if people want to reach out to you, what's the best way?

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Oh, email is the best way for sure. Um K Drabook at cook and boardman.com. I am available and I would love to hear from any veterans looking to transition or any females um that may listen to this and are looking to get involved in the construction industry as well. I do have to say, Scott, though, one thing you did say male dominated, and I, you know, the only way I make everyone um better is by sharing. I use the word populated.

SPEAKER_02 58:46

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

No one's dominating anymore in this industry, right? We're all here, we're all here together. And so I like to I like to drop that little nugget when we have these kinds of conversations.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

That's good. I like that. Thank you very much. Cool. And I will, you know, I'll tag you and everything uh when I put this out on LinkedIn so people can reach out to you directly there uh there as well. So thank you so much for your time, Kara.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

This has been great. And really, Scott, thank you for drawing attention to our our fellow veterans that can be so successful in this industry. And I just hope that this podcast helps inspire even just one person uh reach out and and join us in this and let's build something together.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Yeah, thank you for that. I appreciate it.