How to Include Kids Who Think, Act, or Look Different | Faith, Inclusion, and Friendship w/ Kim Botto

Welcome to another heartwarming episode of the Collide Kids Podcast. This week, host Christen Clark welcomes Kim Botto, a passionate advocate for children with disabilities, neurodivergence, trauma, and behavior challenges.

Kim brings decades of experience in children's ministry and personal insights as an adoptive mom. Her dedication to creating inclusive spaces where every child can belong shines through as she shares her story. She discusses her journey as a mother of children from Ukrainian orphanages and the lessons learned about embracing each child's unique needs.

In this episode, Kim offers practical strategies for kids and families to connect with those who are differently-abled or neurodivergent. She emphasizes valuing differences as assets, not deficiencies, and shares simple ways to start conversations and build friendships that cross boundaries of ability and experience.

Listeners will be inspired by Kim’s latest book, "Boundless Hope for Every Child," which is filled with tools to support children with challenging behaviors. Throughout the conversation, Kim encourages us to follow Jesus' lead in welcoming every child with love and understanding.

Go to kimbotto.com to learn more about Kim and her new book for grown ups!

Special thanks to our editor, Jay Lee, from provisionpods.com.

Clip Finder:

"Understanding the Outsider": "I really became passionate about the kid who is on the outside of the circle, who can't find their place, who's standing alone or last to be picked for games. Then we adopted our two youngest daughters from orphanages in Ukraine. One at the age of 10 and one at the age of 15. And what I better understood is how somebody's background and their experiences, they've had impact, how they respond in the moment to different things."
— Kim Botto [00:04:27 → 00:04:58]

Welcoming All Children: "Jesus said, let the little children come to me. He didn't qualify it as let the kids who can walk from room to room unassisted, or let the kids who are able to articulate their needs verbally, you know, with their words."
— Kim Botto [00:08:38 → 00:08:50]

Understanding Neurodiversity in Social Settings: "Kids, you might be having an awesome birthday party and you're having all this stuff. Well, a kid who has sensory differences, it might be hard for them to be at the party. But what you could do instead is work with your parents and with their parents. Maybe they come over an hour before the party starts and they help you set up and they have the first piece of cake with you."
— Kim Botto [00:17:47 → 00:18:07]

Building Friendships One Bench at a Time: "I mean, I've heard so many stories of kids who feel left out and just having somebody sit by them on the bench, that's huge."
— Kim Botto [00:18:59 → 00:19:08]

Understanding Autism through Empathy: "He's very happy being at the park. That is a way that he expresses that he's happy that he likes being here at the park."
— Kim Botto [00:20:47 → 00:

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Transcript

Christen Clark [00:00:21]:

Let's do it. Hey, y'all. Welcome to the Collide Kids Podcast. I'm your host, Christen Clark. The Collide Kids Podcast is a show for kids and families where we learn together how life and faith collide. It means so much to me that you're listening today. Thank you for being here and spending this time with me. This season we're introducing a brand new segment.

Christen Clark [00:00:49]:

It's called let's Talk About It. So in this fun part of the show, I'm going to ask three questions. Now, some might be silly, some might be imaginative, and some might be deep and faith filled, but all are designed to spark some great family conversations. So be sure to stick around until the end of the interview for those three questions. Well, I am so excited that we are only a few episodes away from our 200th episode. Isn't that amazing? 200 episodes, 200 friends. It's been such an amazing experience so far and I cannot wait for what the next 200 are going to be like. So definitely stay tuned this month and join our newsletter so you can learn more about the fun prizes and all the cool things that we might have planned for our 200th episode.

Christen Clark [00:01:37]:

It's gonna be so much fun. You know, 200 episodes makes me think of all the different people that have been on the show. So many different jobs and experiences and personalities and people from all over the globe. It's just been so cool to meet so many different people, and I love being able to celebrate those differences. God made each one of us wonderfully unique, and our differences are definitely something to celebrate. When we take the time to understand and appreciate people who might think or move or communicate differently than we do, then we actually grow in love and kindness and friendship. That's what's so important. And that's why I'm so excited today to have a guest on my show.

Christen Clark [00:02:19]:

Her name is Kim Botto, and she is an advocate for people with disabilities, neurodivergence, trauma, and behavior challenges. For the past several decades, Kim has led children's and student ministries at the local church, while also leading initiatives around adoption and foster care, which is so important. As an adoptive mom herself and an advocate for kids and teens who have experienced trauma or are neurodivergent or disabled, her passion is creating spaces for all kids, regardless of their background, behavior, or unique needs to belong to contribute and to grow through speaking and writing and coaching. Kim works with parents, church leaders and organizations to help equip volunteers and staff teams, strengthen families and support parents. She is also the author of a new book, Boundless Hope for Every Child, a book that will provide tools for responding in helpful ways to kids and teens with concerning behaviors. I think having conversations about being more inclusive and welcoming to people with differences is so important. And so I know you're going to enjoy this conversation. Conversation with my friend, Kim Botto.

Christen Clark [00:03:38]:

Well, Kim Botto, I am so honored to have you on the Collide Kids podcast.

Kim Botto [00:03:43]:

Thank you, Christen. It's fun to be with you.

Christen Clark [00:03:46]:

Yeah, this is so fun. We have been connected for a while in different friend circles that we have and different conferences we've been involved in and I just, I admire you so much. I'm so glad you're here and I'm so excited about the topic you're going to share with us today. But would you just introduce yourself to our listeners, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Kim Botto [00:04:04]:

Well, first of all, I am a wife to one. I'm the mom of five and as of a couple weeks ago, I'm the grandma of 11.

Christen Clark [00:04:13]:

11. That's awesome.

Kim Botto [00:04:14]:

11. Super fun. I have worked in kids and student ministry for decades leading, leading the teams at a large multi site church. In the midst of doing that though, I really became passionate about, well actually it started in high school. Passionate about the kid who is on the outside of the circle, who can't find their place, who's standing alone or last to be picked for games. Then we adopted our two youngest daughters from orphanages in Ukraine. One at the age of 10 and one at the age of 15. And what I better understood is how somebody's background and their experiences, they've had impact, how they respond in the moment to different things.

Kim Botto [00:04:58]:

And so that just put me on a path to. I wanted our church and our team wanted our church to be a place for every single kid to belong and to find their place and to find their people. In order to do that, we had to change our mindset about some of the behaviors that we saw that could be frustrating and challenging.

Christen Clark [00:05:16]:

And I love that. And you know, I went to Ukraine a few years ago and so the Ukrainian people have a special place in my heart. And I'm so, I actually learned a little bit of Ukrainian and Russian so that I could talk to my friends there. So what was that like being an adoptive mom? Like, what was that like bringing kids from another country into your family?

Kim Botto [00:05:34]:

Well, we, we decided as a family to do it. Our kids were in middle school and high school. We had three bio kids and our two oldest had actually just gotten back from a mission trip to Ukraine with my brother and sister in law. And they came home hurting for those kids because they saw it's hard. I mean, they don't have the things that we have. They don't have people that are helping them get ready for school in the morning or tucking them in bed at night. So when we started talking about it, they were all for it. And since they'd just gone to Ukraine, it seemed like that was the place to do it.

Kim Botto [00:06:07]:

And what we learned is Mark and I thought we were pretty awesome parents, you know, because we had three kids and they were doing pretty well. And what we found is because of our youngest two's experience, a lot of the things that worked really well with our bio kids who had grown up in a loving and supportive environment didn't work with our kids who didn't. And for those who are listening, some of the kids who are listening, you probably had time out before, and that could be a really effective strategy to give everybody space to kind of take a deep breath and then come back and talk about it. But for our two youngest, they had basically spent their whole life in timeout. They'd been sent away all the time. So that was not an effect. That's just an example of something that was not an effective strategy with them. So we had to learn how to parent all over again.

Christen Clark [00:06:59]:

Wow. And you don't think about that too, like when you're in another stage of life, you know, parents have different tactics, like you said, and some things don't work. And that's true for even biological kids. Like some things that we do for one kid does not always work for the other kid.

Kim Botto [00:07:13]:

So every kid is different.

Christen Clark [00:07:15]:

That's exactly right. That's good. Well, I love that you have this story and I'm really excited to talk about this. But before we do that, because this is a show for kids, I always ask my guests to tell me a joke. So do you have a joke for us today?

Kim Botto [00:07:27]:

Yeah. Christen. Knock, knock.

Christen Clark [00:07:30]:

Who's there?

Kim Botto [00:07:31]:

Lettuce. Let us. Who let us in. It's freezing out here because that's. I'm in Northern Kentucky right by Cincinnati, and it's freezing out there.

Christen Clark [00:07:42]:

Did you get snow this week?

Kim Botto [00:07:44]:

Oh, we, we, we have had so much snow. Yes, we got snow. We usually get a little bit of snow, but we're Getting a ton of snow, even to the point. I was with my nephew the other day who loves snow, and he said, aunt Kim, I'm tired of snow. Why. Why do you think that is? And I said, because we. We've had. We had snow on the ground for, I think it was three weeks, which is really unusual here.

Christen Clark [00:08:08]:

Wow. Yeah, I'm. I live in Georgia, so we definitely don't have any of that. And if we have snow for a couple of days, we're like, get us out. Send the National Guard. We need help. Well, let's talk a little bit about your experience with people with disabilities. You have a lot of things that you do in your ministry to help church leaders and parents and people that work with kids to connect with kids with disabilities.

Christen Clark [00:08:34]:

Why is that so important to you?

Kim Botto [00:08:36]:

Because I believe. I mean, Jesus said, let the little children come to me. He didn't qualify it as let the kids who can walk from room to room unassisted, or let the kids who are able to articulate their needs verbally, you know, with their words. So Jesus was saying we're to welcome all kids, that he's welcoming all kids. So I think we should be welcoming all kids, too. And what I have found in the church, in school, in the neighborhoods, often kids who are different, meaning that maybe they have a disability, maybe they're in a wheelchair, maybe they're neurodivergent, you know, autistic, or have adhd or like our daughters, they experience trauma, so they're gonna respond differently to their situation. And people don't understand their behavior. So a lot of times their differences make them feel more and more excluded and isolated.

Kim Botto [00:09:29]:

And that's not how we're supposed to live.

Christen Clark [00:09:31]:

Right.

Kim Botto [00:09:32]:

I mean, the Bible's filled with one another and talking about community. And what I have found is it's not just for the kid with the difference. It's for me. My life is enriched because I surround myself with people who are different. I learn different things from them. And so I just want these kids who feel isolated, and parents. You know, a lot of parents who are raising kids that have differences, they feel isolated because their kid might behave in a way that somebody's not expecting. So what they do then is instead of going out and feeling judged, they just stay at home.

Christen Clark [00:10:08]:

Yeah.

Kim Botto [00:10:08]:

And I don't want that either.

Christen Clark [00:10:10]:

Right.

Kim Botto [00:10:10]:

I believe that it's due to just a lack of awareness. We might see a kid and say, oh, my gosh, what's wrong with them? Why are they having a fit? What we don't understand is they have a sensory difference. And that noise in that really fun room that we think is super fun is actually totally overwhelming to them, and their behavior is letting us know it's too much. I need to get out of here.

Christen Clark [00:10:32]:

Yeah. Thank you for explaining that. Can you talk a little bit about the other ones you talked about? Cause I think there might be some kids listening or even some parents that are not aware of, like, what it means to be autistic or what it means to be neurodivergent. So can you explain that a little bit?

Kim Botto [00:10:47]:

Yes. So neurodivergent. That's a big word. And it's only been around, I mean, not very long at all. And what that means is, it means if I am neurodivergent, my brain processes something differently than someone who has a neurotypical brain. So, Christen, let's say that you're neurotypical. You might go into a room where there is loud noise, and you're going, this is so fun. If I'm neurodivergent.

Kim Botto [00:11:16]:

And often people who are neurodivergent are hypersensitive to sensory things. So, Kristin, what would be some sensory thing? What are some different senses?

Christen Clark [00:11:25]:

Like maybe the way that my clothes feel on or something loud or something bright flashing?

Kim Botto [00:11:32]:

Yes.

Christen Clark [00:11:32]:

Yeah.

Kim Botto [00:11:33]:

I see and hear and feel all those things. I might go into the room and not even be able to step in there because it's just too much. A really important distinction, especially when we're talking about kids who are autistic who have ADHD or dyslexia. It's a difference. It's not a deficit. And a deficit means there's something wrong. It's not wrong. It's not bad.

Kim Botto [00:11:58]:

It's just different. And that's why I'm so passionate about helping people understand the differences so they can then better come along and support, but also just be a friend.

Christen Clark [00:12:11]:

Yeah.

Kim Botto [00:12:11]:

Kids who are different don't want to be somebody's project. They want to be somebody's friends.

Christen Clark [00:12:15]:

Yeah.

Kim Botto [00:12:16]:

Just because your brain processes things differently, we all have a desire to belong, to have a place where we feel safe, where we can share our good, good stuff and share our hard stuff. But so often these kids who are, you know, neurodivergent or disabled or have experienced trauma, they can't find those places because they're pushed away because of their behavior.

Christen Clark [00:12:42]:

You know, one of the things that I love about this podcast and the things that I've learned about so many different people just through the years that I've done. This is how different God has created each person. And I love that you said that. People like that, they're different. They're not deficient. Like there's not something missing or something wrong with them. They're just different. They process things different.

Christen Clark [00:13:01]:

They feel different. They. They hear things different than we do. And so our job is just to appreciate what it is about that other person that's different. Because I think if we were all made the same, it would be so boring, right?

Kim Botto [00:13:13]:

It would be so boring. Unfortunately, though, what happens is we tend to surround ourselves with people who are the same as us because that's more comfortable. And so for the kids who are listening, you know, think about kids who are different and get to know them. And you would get to know them the same way you would with anybody else. Find out what they love, what are they watching on tv, what's their favorite video game, what subject do they hate in school. Yeah, I mean, just talk to them about the normal things that you would talk to any about. And I want to address, because there might be some kids who are listening who are neurodivergent or disabled or they've had really hard stuff. And one of my favorite verses is in Psalm 139, 14.

Kim Botto [00:13:56]:

It says, I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. That applies to everybody. And I was just at an event the other night with adults with disabilities, and so many of them don't realize that that's true about them. So for you guys who are listening, there's a whole bunch of different translations of the Bible. One of them is called the ESV English Standard Version. And what it says, it says, I praise you for I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. My soul knows it very well.

Christen Clark [00:14:30]:

And, you know, if we know it.

Kim Botto [00:14:31]:

In our soul, that's what I want. And it might be that a kid doesn't even have a diagnosis. Maybe they're just going through a hard time. Maybe they're not doing well in school right now. Maybe they didn't make the soccer team when they wanted to. I want them to know that what God says is. Another version says, you're amazing and wonderful. God says, you're amazing and wonderful.

Kim Botto [00:14:53]:

I want them to know that from the just the absolute inmost of their soul to their fingertips, to their toenails, to the tops of their head.

Christen Clark [00:15:03]:

Yeah, that's so important that. And that we all know that. That God has created us and we've been created in his image. And so that that makes us wonderful. I love that verse. It's one of my favorite verses, just to be reminded. Thank you for that. So let's talk a little bit about how can we.

Christen Clark [00:15:19]:

You said, you know, we can be friends with them just like anybody else. But I think sometimes it's a little intimidating, especially if their behavior might be louder than mine, or maybe they're acting in an erratic way, or maybe they're in a wheelchair or they have something physical we can see, and we're not sure if we should talk about it, if we should speak to them, if they're okay. How do we do that? How do we navigate that? Becoming friends with those people who definitely need friends.

Kim Botto [00:15:44]:

Well, first of all, at the end, you said about speaking to them. Yes, speak to them. I think a lot of times we have a tendency to back away because they seem different. So let's walk towards them. Them and ask questions and ask them. Is this okay if I ask you that? I mean, I've talked to people and I said, tell me if this. You don't want to talk about it, but I'm just interested in getting to know you. And I would suggest when we start asking questions, don't start with what we see is different.

Kim Botto [00:16:14]:

Instead, start with some of those things I talked about earlier. Hey, you know, we're in the same school. Did you like the lunch they had today? Like, what's your favorite thing to have in lunch? Or if you're at the park, I love going on this apparatus at the park. What's your favorite thing? Because so often somebody who has a difference, they start believing that's the only thing people care about in them. I would say ask questions. And for parents, you know, our kids are super honest, which is one of my favorite things about them. They might ask questions that make us feel embarrassed or want to pull the kid away. But what happens is, like, let's say we're in a grocery store and we see somebody who is a little person, and our kid might say, what's wrong with their legs? When we pull our child away from them, what we're telling them is we don't engage with people who are different.

Kim Botto [00:17:11]:

So what we can do is say, you know, ask that person, hey, my child's curious about your legs. That is it okay if he asks you? But we don't want to constantly pull them away, and we need to have grace for each other. We might ask questions sometimes that aren't received well, but then we apologize and say, how can we ask it in a different way? Another Thing for kids who are trying to be friends with someone who is different than them. For example, somebody who's neurodivergent and has sensory differences. Kids, you might be having an awesome 10th grade birthday party and you're having all this stuff. Well, a kid who has sensory differences, it might be hard for them to be at the party. But what you could do instead is work with your parents and with their parents. Maybe they come over an hour before the party starts and they help you set up and they have the first piece of cake with you.

Kim Botto [00:18:07]:

Because you know what? It's okay if when you blow out your candles, there's a piece missing. That makes the cake more interesting. That's right. Let them come over. And then maybe they only stay 10 minutes after the people get there, the other guests, but then they feel included. Another thing is, it's wonderful when we invite kids into what we're doing. And I love it when I see kids on the playground and they're going, hey, come play with me. That's great.

Kim Botto [00:18:30]:

Continue to do that. Also, for some kids who might be sitting, you know, on the bench or not playing, go to them and ask them, what would you like to play right now? Do you want me to just sit on the bench with you? So join them in what they are doing rather than always inviting them into what we're doing, because they might not feel comfortable, they might not be able to due to differences or their development. I mean, I've heard so many stories of kids who feel left out and just having somebody sit by them on the bench, that's huge. I mean, they come home and they're talking about their new best friend, and all that person did was just sit with them.

Christen Clark [00:19:14]:

I love that. And I think a lot of times we think, oh, I'm not equipped for that, or I don't know how to do that kind of thing. And like you said, it's so simple. We just invite them in or we join them where they are. I had a guest on a few years ago, and she's talking about when we're learning to make friends, that a great way to approach someone is to affirm first. In other words, to say something kind about them. Something we see, like, you have a great smile or I love your shirt or what cool shoes. You know, like, just start with something that you like about that person or something you notice about them.

Christen Clark [00:19:48]:

And then you can ask those questions at like, can I ask you about your legs? Or can I ask you, like, why you act this way? And so I think when we go in and approaching them with this kindness, like I notice you and I'm approaching you, like to say something kind to them is always gonna go so much further than if we just with the questions about their differences, like you said, absolutely.

Kim Botto [00:20:10]:

And parents, you know, our role is to help educate and inform our kids. And I was at the park with my 7 year old autistic grandson and he was stimming. And for those who don't know what that is, it's for him, in this case, he was flapping his arms, which is a common way for people who are autistic to either express themselves or to calm themselves down. So a little boy came up to me and said, what's he doing? Why is he doing that with his arms? And his dad was kind of like, oh my gosh. And I said, oh, that's great. You asked. And I'm trying to think, okay, what do I respond? So I said, he's very happy being at the park. That is a way that he expresses that he's happy that he likes being here at the park.

Kim Botto [00:20:55]:

And the little kid thought about it and then he went back and got a transformer out of his car and he said, this is what I do when I'm happy. I play with my bumblebee Transformer. And so this kid then was able to see what Micah was doing. There's nothing wrong with it.

Christen Clark [00:21:11]:

Right.

Kim Botto [00:21:12]:

It was just different than what he does. And he's really happy.

Christen Clark [00:21:15]:

Oh, I love that. And I think too, like you said, it's okay for kids to ask those questions. They're going to. And so how parents respond to it, you know, and sometimes, like you said, like, it's not an appropriate time to go up to that person, ask them, but you can also say, you know what, let's learn about that. Let's look that up. Let's decide together how we're gonna learn more about people that are like that. And so just making that open opportunity to have conversations with your kids about stuff like that is a great thing to do.

Kim Botto [00:21:44]:

I have a friend who is. She prefers the term little person. And she says, just say hi.

Christen Clark [00:21:52]:

Yeah.

Kim Botto [00:21:52]:

Even if your kid asks a question that maybe you're uncomfortable with, she said, when you're whispering to your kid and pulling them off, she goes, I can hear you. Like, I know what you're saying. So instead, if your kid asks a question that maybe you don't think is appropriate, just start the conversation with, hey, just say hi to them. And she said for her, it makes her feel Seen it makes her feel known. And then what we're showing the kid is we engage with people who are different than us.

Christen Clark [00:22:22]:

Yeah. I think that's so important. Yeah. And just saying hi is such a simple thing to do.

Kim Botto [00:22:28]:

We can all do that. Yeah.

Christen Clark [00:22:29]:

Loud WHISPERING don't talk to them, don't look at them. You know, that's not the way to handle it, for sure. Well, I love that these are the things that you're a part of, that this is a. Something you're passionate about. Is it because your grandchild has a disability that this made you aware of it, or is this something you learned about earlier on?

Kim Botto [00:22:47]:

I mean, I was in high school, serving at my church, and always, always put as a leader of the group of little boys who couldn't keep their hands to themselves, who were running, who were, you know, sticking stuff in their pockets they shouldn't be sticking their. I mean, and I loved it. I loved being with them. And so I feel like somebody. It was. I mean, I was old, I was probably my 40s or 50s, where somebody said to me, hey, like, you do know that a lot of the kids that you're running to be with other. At the same time, you're running towards them, people are running away. So I believe that God has given me a unique calling for that, and we can all be more inclusive, people who are different.

Kim Botto [00:23:32]:

And certainly, you know, with my grandson, with my daughters, it just raised my awareness of how hard it is for people who aren't typical. And so I wanted to help raise awareness. And if a parent who is listening to this, who is raising a kid with disabilities or neurodivergent or experienced trauma, you know, adopt a foster kinship parent, it's often too much for them. They need an army around them helping to raise awareness and create places where their kids and their family can be welcome and be a part of a community.

Christen Clark [00:24:09]:

Yeah. And I think, too, they're tired of being the only ones talking about it. You know, they always have to explain the differences or the things like that. So to have other people that can be educated and know about those things, that's going to be so encouraging to those families.

Kim Botto [00:24:23]:

And, you know, for families who are saying, oh, my gosh, so how do I educate my kid? Children's picture books are the best. The best. The best. The best. And actually, if you go to Kimba.com, i'm gonna post this one the next day or two, a list of good children's books, because there are so many. There's one called the invisible Boy, that isn't about a particular disability. He kind of, the way he interacts, you think maybe he's autistic, but it just, it helps grow empathy in kids. Kids who, you know, it's telling a story of a little boy who feels invisible.

Kim Botto [00:24:57]:

And then what? Just a simple, you know, a kid just saying hi to him and sitting by him in the lunchroom. How it made him feel seen and known. There's also some great books on autism. There's one on, I think it's called why Johnny Doesn't Flap. And it's told from the perspective of an autistic kid going, huh, yeah, that's weird. Like, he doesn't show his enthusiasm by flapping. Like, but that's okay. And a lot of times autistics have incredible memories and attention to detail.

Kim Botto [00:25:26]:

He's like, you know, he can't recite all 50 states already. And. But you know what? That's okay. And so it's a great book. There's a whole bunch of great books. So parents, go to the library, get books on inclusion, on disabilities, on just being a good friend, and that can strike up all kinds of great convos with your kiddos.

Christen Clark [00:25:45]:

I love that. We'll definitely post a link to that list that you post so that we can have our listeners check that out. Cause I know that is a great resource. And you've also written some books about connecting with people. Tell us about your newest book.

Kim Botto [00:25:57]:

So it's called Boundless Hope for Every Child. And it has a super long tagline, Help for the Hurting. Compassion for the Misunderstood, Belonging for the lonely. Because we've got a lot of kids who are misunderstood. They're hurting and they're feeling lonely. And so what the book is all about, first of all, it goes through what do we believe about kids and then want to build empathy. So we talk about some science and research things about neurodiversity, where I sit up at the top. It's not a deficit, it's just different.

Kim Botto [00:26:31]:

So we talk about that. And then it's filled with practical strategies on how we can create environments for every child to belong. Every child and teen.

Christen Clark [00:26:39]:

I love that.

Kim Botto [00:26:40]:

I have a podcast called Every Child Belongs that also I talk to school principals, guidance counselors, children's pastors, parents of kids who have differences, professionals to try to help people understand. For one, it gives us proximity. Maybe I had a friend the other day say, I don't know anybody who's autistic. Well, the way you learn is in proximity. But if you don't know anybody. We're hoping that through that it will give you some comfort and understanding. So when you do run into somebody who has differences, you'll feel better equipped where you will step towards them rather than step away. Right.

Christen Clark [00:27:21]:

And it might be too, that once you learn about something like this, you have more compassion for those people, and they might find you or they might find your church or their ministry or your family in your neighborhood, because they know that you have compassion for people like that. So I think it's important to learn about these things and to read your book and your podcast and just to learn more things. I think that's so good that you've provided all this information out there.

Kim Botto [00:27:45]:

Yeah. And I'll say, too, we're not gonna get it right every time. Right. I was at an event with an autistic. She's probably in her mid-20s, and she was having a really, really hard time. And I froze. I didn't know what to do. And so I kind of stood there and I'm like, do I give her water? What do I do? What was really awesome is afterwards I said to her, I don't feel like I supported you in the way that I should have.

Kim Botto [00:28:09]:

What should I have done? It's difficult for her to communicate, you know, face to face. So she said, can we do this over Facebook messenger? And I said, sure. So we started this beautiful conversation where basically what she told me, do for me what you do for anybody. Yeah, I was overheated. You were thinking, I needed water. That's exactly what I needed. You were wanting to move me to the shade. That's exactly what I needed.

Kim Botto [00:28:34]:

So trust your gut. Just take that step. Take that first step and make an offer of support. We just over. We overthink it, and then we get afraid. Right.

Christen Clark [00:28:43]:

Or we don't do anything because we're afraid we'll do the wrong thing. So we do nothing. And that's not the way to do it. Well, Kim, this has been so good. Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing all this great information. I'm so excited for our listeners to learn more about the things that you're passionate about and just to learn to be more compassionate and inclusive. That's what it's really all about. So I think that's what Jesus wants us to do.

Christen Clark [00:29:06]:

And so I'm thankful that we have this resource now. So tell us again where we can find your book.

Kim Botto [00:29:10]:

Okay. If you go to Kimbotto.com, k-I M B-O T T O.com, it tells you it's gonna be available on Amazon March 4th, and it's also available for pre order on Kimbotto.com and then every child belongs the pod, you know, Apple podcasts and Spotify.

Christen Clark [00:29:29]:

Yeah.

Kim Botto [00:29:29]:

I feel like one of my biggest roles is there are so many amazing people out there like you, Christen, doing amazing, incredible things. So I like to point to other resources, point to other books, point to other people. I'm on Instagram too, Kimbato, and I like to point to other people in that a lot.

Christen Clark [00:29:47]:

Yeah, I do that too. Cause I think the more people know about these resources that are out there, the better we're all gonna be. So that's good. That's good to know. Before I let you go, I always ask my guests to tell me a memory from when they were a kid. So what's a memory that you have that you can remember you want to share with us today?

Kim Botto [00:30:03]:

My favorite place to go was my grandma's house in Mentor, Kentucky, a little river town. It smelled musty and moldy all the time. She lived right on the railroad track, so at night we would almost get vibrated out of our beds. And I loved it. And as I have pondered on that, it wasn't the location. You know, we had great beach vacations and I didn't want to go. I wanted to go to my grandma's on the river by the railroad tracks. It was the people.

Kim Botto [00:30:32]:

I felt very safe there. My grandma was amazing at knowing what the individual grandkids needed. She treated us all differently, which is not a bad thing because she treated us each the way we individually needed to be treated and cared for. And oh my gosh, I mean, there were cows out there. There were chickens. I learned a lot about life and death. The baby chickens. One night, the.

Kim Botto [00:30:58]:

What do you call it, you know, the heater on them went out and we woke up to a bunch of deceased chickens. That was very sad. Oh, no. But I was there with my cousins and my aunts and uncles and we grieved together. And then we went and had ice cream and went down to the river and threw rocks. So my, I just loved going to my grandma's house. It was a little bitty house, teeny tiny house with one bedroom. So people who are listening who think that you have to have all kinds of expensive things and fancy houses.

Kim Botto [00:31:27]:

My favorite memory is of a little, little tiny one bathroom house on the.

Christen Clark [00:31:33]:

River, by the river, by the railroad tracks.

Kim Botto [00:31:36]:

I love that because of who the people were. Yeah.

Christen Clark [00:31:38]:

And I love that you said your grandma, you know, treated everybody different. And. And that was okay. Like, that's what. Grandma's good grandma. That's what she knows how to do.

Kim Botto [00:31:47]:

Right.

Christen Clark [00:31:47]:

Grandparents are the best.

Kim Botto [00:31:49]:

Right? Well, and actually, not just grandparents. I mean, school teachers, church leaders. I think too often we think we have to treat everybody the same. Jesus didn't do that.

Christen Clark [00:32:00]:

That's true.

Kim Botto [00:32:00]:

You know, there were some people who were disobedient, and he. He treated them in a. You know, he. He disciplined. There were other people like Zacchaeus who everybody knew that he was disobedient. He was stealing from people.

Christen Clark [00:32:13]:

Right.

Kim Botto [00:32:14]:

And what did Jesus say? Hey, Zacchaeus, come on down from the tree and let's go to your house and hang out and have dinner. Jesus knew that Zacchaeus needed connection.

Christen Clark [00:32:23]:

That's right.

Kim Botto [00:32:23]:

Other people might need. Have Needed more firm discipline.

Christen Clark [00:32:28]:

That's right. Well, that's so good. Well, Kim, thank you so much again for being on the show. This was great. Oh, I loved learning about Kim's memories of her grandmother and her house by the railroad tracks. That was so good. You know, this was such an important conversation, and I'm really glad that we were able to talk about this and. And just learning together how we can be more inclusive and welcoming to people.

Christen Clark [00:32:59]:

Jesus said, let the little children come to me. And like Kim said, he did not qualify that with what kind of children he wanted. Wants all children to come to him. So if Jesus is welcoming to all kids, then I think we should also be welcoming to all kids as well. Kim said kids who are different don't want to be somebody's project. They want to be someone's friend. We can learn to be friends with people with differences or disabilities and get to know them and understand them and have friendships with them just like we would anyone else. And if you're wondering, how do I start, how do I reach out to that person? How do I get to know someone with a disability or someone who's different than me? Well, Kim said it's really simple.

Christen Clark [00:33:40]:

You just speak to them. Go invite them to do what you're doing, or better yet, join them in what they're already doing or ask them what they would like to do. You can ask them questions and get to know them, but maybe don't start with what you see or notice that is different about them first. And if you don't know what to say, just say hi. It's so simple, and yet we get so hung up on those things. But I think that's Such great advice. If you'd like to learn more about Kim and her books and her list of great resources to help your family learn more about people with disabilities and differences, go to kimbato.com well I know all of this conversation has really got those thinking juices going in your family. So it's time for our family conversation.

Christen Clark [00:34:28]:

So let's talk about it. I'm going to ask you three questions. These are great discussion questions for your family to talk about right now, so you can pause in between each one if you're sitting with your family now, or if you want to listen to all three and talk about the one that you like the most or maybe talk about them later around the dinner table. Whatever you want to do. Here are the three questions for you guys to get talking. Here's the first one. If you met someone new who seemed a little different from you, what is a great way to start a conversation and get to know them? Okay, here's the second one. Jesus welcomed everyone with love.

Christen Clark [00:35:05]:

What are some ways we can follow Jesus example and make sure everyone feels included? And number three, can you think of a time when you felt left out? How did it feel? And what could someone have done to make you feel more included? Those are the three questions. I hope you and your family have some great conversations talking about it and be sure to share with me maybe a picture or some of the topics and things that you've talked about during this time. I'd love to hear more about your family conversations. You can share those with me on Facebook and Instagram @collidekidspod. And hey, if you'd like to be on the podcast for our Kids Only segment, don't worry, we didn't get rid of it, we just have moved it to our YouTube channel. So if you'd like to send in a video of you singing a song or telling a joke or a Bible verse, I will put you on the next YouTube video of an upcoming episode. Just go to my website, collidekidspodcast.com and click the tab at the top. This is Kids Only where you can find more information about how to send that to me.

Christen Clark [00:36:10]:

And while while you're on the website, be sure to sign up for the monthly newsletter. Also, if you're on social media, I would love for you to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and share today's episode with someone who might need to hear it. It might be a great resource for someone who's navigating these conversations like inclusivity and people with disabilities and differences. And don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Collide Kids Podcast, where you can watch the full length interview for today's episode. Also, if you're interested in supporting the podcast, there's a few ways you can do that. You can leave a rating and review, which is very helpful for people to find out about the show. You can also shop on Amazon through our affiliate link collidekids podcast.com Amazon or go to the website and click the Amazon tab and a small portion of your purchase helps keep the show going at no cost to you. And I always appreciate when you can support the podcast through your prayers.

Christen Clark [00:37:06]:

Well, I hope you guys have an amazing week. I hope you're enjoying listening to the show, and in case no one has told you today, I would love to be the first to remind you that God loves you so much. Thanks for listening.