What If Strength Is Choosing Not To Force

Force gets results fast and breaks things quietly. Power moves slower, stays present, and builds something that lasts and that difference shows up everywhere from marriage arguments to leadership decisions to the private battles men fight alone.

We sit down with Garth Haslem, author of Power Over Force and founder of Manalizing, to get specific about what “real power” actually looks like in a man’s life. We talk about why so many men default to pressure, control, withdrawal, or manipulation when they feel insecure and how self-governance becomes a higher form of masculine strength. Garth shares a striking contrast between force in the home and power in the home, plus practical ways to respond to conflict with calm, curiosity, and connection without becoming soft or passive.

The conversation also goes straight at men’s mental health and isolation. When three out of four suicides are men, “handle it yourself” is not a virtue, it’s a trap. We unpack why brotherhood matters, what honest conversation can do that surface-level friendships cannot, and how shared community helps distribute the load. Garth ties it all together with a structural engineering lens: load paths, foundations, rebar, and the need to let God carry what we were never meant to carry alone.

If you want a clear, grounded take on Christian masculinity, leadership, marriage conflict, men’s groups, and building resilience without force, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s carrying too much, and leave a review with the biggest takeaway you’re putting into practice.

To learn more visit his website at:

https://www.poweroverforce.com

Chapter Markers

• 0:00
• Power Versus Force In The World
• 1:40
• Why Men Feel Alone
• 4:52
• How The Host Found Podcasting
• 8:06
• Defining Force And Real Power
• 9:09
• Agency Versus Control In Genesis
• 12:25
• Powerful Marriage Conflict Looks Like This
• 20:44
• Engineering Loads As A Model For Life
• 28:30
• Self Governance As Masculine Strength
• 32:40
• Brotherhood That Can Hold The Truth
• 35:20
• Building The Stone And Pine Retreat
• 38:19
• Where To Find The Book
• 41:10
• Final Message And Closing Prayer

Visit www.thesavagepath.com for more on David, his book The Savage Path: A Memoir of Modern Masculinity, and the Savage Path Ministries Corp.

Transcript

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Power Versus Force In The World

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well code, the rest of it, with the intermediate, it's just the first fighting thing, eight and every day. It's a fight with our only square. We also ready to rub it because afternoon, wrestlers.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Today it's summer. We've all been watching the conflict between the U.S. and the Israeli militaries and the Revolutionary Guard forces of Iran and their various proxies in Lebanon limit. It would seem that the U.S. military has the forced capability to wipe out the Iranian enemy. But then what would fill the vacuum? That's really kind of the question. Is force of arms really the best solution to this conundrum? The media levels are second-guest generals and presidents. An armed career quarterback needs unfolding events after the fact from the comfort of their air-conditioned offices. Handless and think tanks discuss soft power options like sanctions or economic blockades, you know, is the better tool to accomplish our objectives over a longer term with less loss of life on both sides. So we do want that. Power over force is an interesting topic on many kinds of situations, as we all attempt to get what we want as an individual, as a community, that are even at the national level.

Why Men Feel Alone

SPEAKER_01 1:40

My guest today, Garth Hastlin, is the author of Power Over Force and the founder of Manalizing, a men's movement built on brotherhood, authenticity, and vulnerability. As a structural engineer, Garth has spent his career studying loads, stress, failure, and what allows systems to hold. Power over force brings that same lens to men's lives, showing why force breaks things down and why real power builds strength, stability, and connection. So, Garth, welcome to Wrestling with the Inner Man. Please take a moment to introduce yourself further to our listeners.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yeah, I'm going to begin by complimenting you. I love the term wrestling. You know, we're all wrestlers. Uh we wrestle with, uh we think we're wrestling with the boss, we're wrestling with the teenagers, the five-year-olds, the wife, the neighbors, uh, you know, our co-workers. That's what we do. We we wrestle. That's a kind word. Sometimes we uh we might feel like we're doing a battle. Uh you know, we're wrestling with traffic, we're wrestling with finances. I love your term wrestling. And uh, but you know, those are all outer things. As men, we're wrestling with ourselves primarily. You mentioned uh pop porn and uh PlayStation. That's beautiful. You know, we're we're wrestling with pop porn and play station, uh, with things that don't matter, with sh with with things that don't make uh us greater. Um and and you know, there's a lot of load that is that is being placed on us, and that's where I get into uh power over force and analyzing. In many cases, men feel like we're alone. You know, there's a reason why three out of four suicides are men. Um I talked uh you know, as I as I introduce nanolyzing, quite often I'll say nanalizing is men talking about what men don't talk about. And that's pretty much everything except for sports. You know, we we don't talk to each other, we don't have each other. If there's a crisis, we got nobody. And and so that's why there's nanalizing. And uh it gives a man an opportunity to have somebody he can talk to. He's got a porn crisis. If he's thinking about divorce or suicide or drugs or uh whatever it is, uh we give a man somebody to lean on. And um, you know, especially if it's suicide, we give we give a man somebody who he can go to and say, hey, I'm thinking about X. Um most men don't have that. And so that's what mentalizing is is about. It's uh it's powerful to see it in action. And you know, that's that's a lot of talking for me, and I don't intend to uh to be the uh sage on the stage in this podcast or anywhere else. So I'm gonna stop talking for a minute and uh and and ask and ask you a question. What

How The Host Found Podcasting

SPEAKER_03 4:52

got you into this?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Into podcasting?

SPEAKER_03 4:57

However, you choose to answer the question into this particular podcast.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Well, so I I retired from the the energy industry. You know, I was a global executive and uh got tired of all the travel. And um there was also an acquisition company and they gave me uh a survey and it said, uh, what gender are you? And there were seven choices on it. I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to work for this company long. And so uh I also was taking care of my mom and my brother who were in memory care facilities. My mom was just dementia, my brother was alcoholic dementia, and uh I needed to take better care of them, and so I I we had the lump sum option, and I said, I'm gonna I'm gonna take it. And then I uh was an Eagle Scout and I worked at Philmont as a backpacking guide and a ranger. You can see behind me, this is like you know, the Wind Rivers. I just love being out in the mountains and backpacking. And um I decided to write a book uh when I retired because I was sick of what had happened to the Boy Scouts of America. You know, as an Eagle Scout, a Philmont Ranger, I was just like, man, there's no pushback. They just rolled over and now they don't even have boy in the name anymore. And it's you know, so I support trail life. And uh as I was promoting my book uh with some Christian radio stations searching for uh you know some free public service notes, uh they said, How would you like to have a radio show and a podcast? And uh I I'd never thought about that, but I think it was a God thing, and so that was five years ago, and that's how I got into it. And then I think it's a way to reach a wide variety of people. I'm still learning a lot about digital marketing, I'm sure you are too. And so uh, you know, here we are, two civil engineers trying to remake ourselves uh in our later years.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

You know, I went to uh I think it's called SEAU Structural Engineers Association of Utah conference uh a couple of years ago because I'm doing very well as a structural engineer in Utah. And I'm like, I haven't got a recipe, I need to share this with some people. So I went I went to an SEAU conference to just try and find somebody who could be me. Uh because then I could retire and he could do it. And I figured that was the best way to reach some engineers. I went to that thing and I looked around that room, there was probably 150 engineers in there. And I was like, I could I quickly determined that there wasn't a single one of those individuals that had enough of a personality that they could talk to anybody. Uh you you don't you don't seem to fit the mold. I don't think I do either, but uh it seems like you might have a personality.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah, I uh I'm definitely a hybrid because I I actually converted into sales and uh you know got a whole a whole 31-year career really as a chemical engineer, but as a technical consultant, then as a contract negotiator, mostly as a relationship builder, because that's how you win business and you retain business when there's problems as you you work your relationships.

Defining Force And Real Power

SPEAKER_01 8:06

But uh back to you, Webb, I want to get back on on you because you wrote this book, Power Over Force, and I was reading, you know, on the website, because again, this show is wrestling with the inner man because the first fight we all face each and every day is a fight between our selfish sinful nature and our Holy Spirit-inspired nature. And so power over force is is one of those. Uh you know, I think that's a great way to couch it. You know, you're in your head and you're like, I'm just gonna, you know, try to exert my will over people, or how am I, you know, now power can also be viewed as a negative term, but i I like uh the way that you couch it. Now you say in uh your website discussing the book force, pushes, pressures, dominates, manipulates, and demands, whereas power steadies, protects, leads, connects, and builds. So uh can you share the genesis of your of your book idea and and what compelled you to write it?

Agency Versus Control In Genesis

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Man, you say so many things that I want to go down that road, but since you just said Genesis, let's let's let's take the Genesis road. Um like you, I'm a follower of Christ. Um Genesis is uh is the beginning of the history that we know. And uh I believe that before we were all born, we still existed. And we were presented with a plan. Along with power, along with force. So since you asked the question that way, where did it begin? And then you said Genesis, I think that's probably where I need to go. That's that's not a place I typically go because not everybody believes that way. But given that you asked that question that way, that's uh that's that's where we'll go today. Um in one case, uh you had Christ that says, Hey, we'll uh uh God the Father will do things your way, and I'll go there and I'll I'll have uh I'll be crucified, I'll I'll do the atonement, and uh we'll we'll give everybody the opportunity to be saved. And uh the other guy, I think they call him Lucifer, he says, No, we're gonna force everybody, you'll get everybody back. They won't have learned anything, but we'll get them all back. And that's force. Uh you know, his his plan was uh was we're gonna tell you what you're gonna do and you're gonna do it. Or Christ is like, we're gonna give them agency, we'll let them choose, and um and we'll let them grow, and when they come back to us, they they will have had the opportunity to grow. Uh I believe that Christ, uh, but when he was on the earth and when he wasn't um and even now uh gives us the opportunity to fail. And whether we choose to, you know, whether we choose well or whether we choose poorly, it gives us the opportunity to grow. And uh I think that's what it's all about. Um and then we could go down the road of how to uh how to succeed or fail in at work or in our uh in our relationships with the wife, with the teenagers, uh, etc.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Well, you know, I uh had another guest on and I like what he said. He said we're souls, that like you said, you know, it we've they exist. It's the only thing we are souls that have a body. We are not bodies that have a soul. Because the soul is the only thing in us that's eternal. And I like the way he phrased that. And he said when we die, all that means is that we've lost the opportunity to choose. You know, we're all our life and we hit we have that opportunity. Are you going to choose Jesus Christ or Lord and Savior? Are you gonna choose you know, selfish and you know and once you die your physical death at this body, then you you've lost that opportunity to choose. Because people always say, Well, you know, I can't believe God would send people to hell. We don't. He doesn't. We send ourselves, you know, with our choices and uh that is well said.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Uh yeah, he he doesn't send us there. We choose bad.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Right, right.

Powerful Marriage Conflict Looks Like This

SPEAKER_01 12:25

So, you know, one of the questions that you said that you were always prepared to answer is like, what does a truly powerful man look like in marriage and especially during conflict? I'm I'm very interested in the answer to this question.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

What does a powerful man look like in marriage and in conflict? Um I wanna I wanna back up. Twenty five-ish years ago, I married the right woman who saw something in me, as opposed to the previous long woman who was just sure that I was a hopeless married and barely, you know, only useful if I brought home a paycheck, and then barely tolerable. Uh then I married married the right woman who was like, I see X, Y, and Z in you. Uh you can guess why I married her, you know, why she seemed like a better choice. And I was like, oh, there's potential greatness in me? Well, what is greatness? And that that one bothered me. I worked on that question for ten years. You know, is a is a famous drummer a great man? Is a politician a great man because he's in Washington, DC? Is a is a speaker a great man? You know, what is greatness? And I I ran down that road a lot of different ways, and you know, f I I after a long time I said I finally decided, well maybe it's service. Um But I have plenty of examples of men who have a lot of money, who have you know the boats, the titles, etc., who I wouldn't have in my living room. You know, you and I can both think of uh politicians, for example, who if they're in my city, they're too close. Um and and so that's that's you know, being the politician, having a a skill, that is not greatness. So what what is greatness? And I finally landed on, and this is recent, you know, this is after 25 years of working this over. I I I finally landed on greatness is figuring out who you are. I I know you're a religious man, so I I I have opportunities to talk about things that uh that I wouldn't normally do. And the parable of the talents is is something that I go to often. One of the things that uh really gets me is you know, there'll be a day when I meet my maker, and if he handed me talent X, Y, and Z, will I be the guy that says, hey, I buried those talents and um I have done nothing with them, or will I be the guy that says, Yeah, I I discovered that I have the gift of air, the ability to speak, uh, the ability to transmit a message, and I developed that. I I got a podcast studio where my microphone is kicking my trash, but I'm doing it anyway. You know, I wrote a book. I'm I'm trying to to use to to find and develop and use the gifts that I have, and for me that's greatness. So that's that's context for your question. But in marriage, yeah, okay yeah, and then in the marriage, um, you know, I can always start with it. Seems like it's more natural to start with the negative. I I know a guy down the street who's uh who's like he wanted me to be impressed by how straight he wired his basement with with the wires. He's like, look at this wire, look how straight it is. And I'm like, okay, that's nice. Um but but he wanted exactness in his wires, and I'm like, eh, that's that's not who I'm looking for in a friend. I I want a man that I feel good being around. And um this same individual found out a little later that uh his teenager mouthed off to him and he uh got on top of her and punched her in the face um in front of a whole bunch of people until she uh finally got away from him and ran away and and as a result he lost his not only her but the rest of his family. He lives alone now. Uh that man knows how to use force to manage his family. It's not working well for him. It didn't work well for him. By contrast, um, you know, force is you will do what I say because I say so, and with an underlying threat of if you don't do what I say, there will be consequences. Um that's force. Power is taking a look at that same daughter, and let's take the same situation, maybe she mouths off to him, and he goes, he takes a moment, and this may be the most important thing I say this month. He breathes. He looks at her and he goes, Are you having a hard time? Is there something I can help you with? Is there something you can tell me? Um maybe maybe she snapped because uh her boyfriend uh is trying to break up with her. Uh maybe she snapped because somebody didn't like her red hair, or maybe she's got a pimple on her nose. Um that's power. That is being able to put the anger, the need for control, for manipulation, all of those sorts of tools of force. Take those, put them aside, and uh know who you are, and who you are as a man of God, and a man who can handle a load when you need to handle a load, and take a look at her and maybe give her a hug instead. And you know, it doesn't mean being soft, it doesn't mean being a doormat, doesn't mean being somebody that you that can be stepped on, but somebody who knows what love is. And of course, all of this just assumes that you've had moments with her where maybe you snuggled on the couch and ate popcorn with her yesterday, or maybe you asked her, uh, you know, how was school or and then and then follow-up questions like uh tell me about your teacher in your English class. Uh where do you sit in that class? Uh, how do you feel when your teacher is talking about X, Y, and Z? You know, basically just getting them to talk, building, building those relationship points. That's power. Uh I know I I'm talking longer than my brain is telling me to talk, but I got one more story. I was uh I I had yesterday was Sunday, I had my grandkids over. And I've got one 17-year-old grandson. He's the oldest of them all, and he has no cousins that are anywhere near his age. The next closest one is his younger brother, who is 15. So it's not like there's somebody for him to hang out with or talk about. So he just sits, he's on his phone, he's he's a good kid, so he doesn't complain, but there's not a lot here for him. So I try to be his buddy. So I sat down and just started talking to him, and he started gushing. Nobody ever asks him about his life. Now, once he realized that I just wanted to know about him, I couldn't I couldn't get him to stop talking. He come he works at the dollar store, and he took quite a while complaining about customers who put stuff back not where it belongs. And he was just digging the opportunity to tell me about how annoying that was for him. I was like, I don't care what you're talking about. I just I just want you to be engaged with me. That's power.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah.

Engineering Loads As A Model For Life

SPEAKER_01 20:44

So, you know, you you said you're a structural engineer. I'm a civil engineer myself, you know, and that more on the water side of things. But um, for our audience's sake, you know, what did your work as a structural engineer teach you about men and pressure and weakness and failure?

SPEAKER_03 21:03

I love that you're an engineer. You and I could be twins, especially with our hairstyle.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah, yeah, there's some pretty close similarities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Uh I should I should put the glasses back on just so that we can be tranquil and go away. Um what and by the way, uh when I got out of college, I wanted to get into water. You know, stuff you got into is what I wanted to get into. Uh to me, I thought the whole concept of structures was just dry and boring. But I um I took the opportunities that came to me and uh I landed doing um my own business as a structural engineer, going out to homes and solving problems and uh doing the write up, you know, letting people know what was going on uh and how to fix it. And uh it's it's enjoyable for me because I can see who I'm benefiting and I get paid. Way more than I should. It's it's pretty awesome. I I enjoy it. So uh to answer your question, uh there's a load path in in structural engineering. You start with um, you know, you're in Texas, so you don't have snow.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

But you you might have the the hurricane or two.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

We do. Strapping it. Got it on my house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah. And so that hurricane is uh blowing at, let's say, a hundred miles an hour, and that's that's causing a structural load on your roof, which in turn transmits that load down into your attic rafters, and then again down into your framing into the foundation and footing and ultimately into the soil. And men are men have a load path too. And it's uh I think for me it's very similar. Uh men are the roof, we're the ones that protect our kids from uh, let's see, what do you say? Porn, uh PlayStation, and uh and pop.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Pop marijuana.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Pot. Okay, I was thinking pop, like pop culture. Uh which is its own vice. But um, you know, we're protecting our kids from that. In that way, we are the roof. Uh, and then you get into the the attic rafters, where all of that load is being taken from the roof and transferred down to a place that's more capable of dealing with with that. And that's our that's our outer strength. Uh, your your rafters, the framing. Uh that is to me, that's our outer strength. It's uh it's how strong are we? How much money do we earn? Um, you know, do we do we have the big house or the little one or the big car, the little one, you know, do we have a bus, do we have a van for when the kids need to go to the football game? Do we have a cabin in the mountains? Uh you know, those sorts of things. Uh that's our outer capabilities. Um then we have who the real man is. That's that's the foundation. And I could go all day about uh, you know, foundations have rebar in them. If the home was built, let's say after about 1980 something, they'll have rebar, and I could go on about what the rebar represents, you know, trustworthiness, courage, humility, honesty, um, integrity. Those for me are rebar, which is really the what carries all of the load, but you don't see it. You never see the rebar. Um and then all of that load path continues down into the footing and ultimately into the soil. The soil is Mother Earth, aka God. And if you and and the the thought there is that if we will allow God, Jesus, to take the load from us, he'll take it. If we don't, and we keep it to ourselves, if we hoard the load, it gets pretty heavy. And then you start talking about guys that uh do the isolation, loneliness, suicide, porn, drugs abuse path. Um nobody wants to be that guy, and we're all told to handle our own stuff alone. But that's a lie. It doesn't happen in nature, it doesn't happen in a house. Uh there's many shingles, there's many elements in the in the attic and the framing. Uh there's there's many rebar and a foundation. Um, none of it is done single. Even if you're looking at a post and beam, uh there's two posts and one beam. You know, that beam is meant to carry a lot of loads, and it's uh it's made up of whatever it's made up of, but that load is in turn transferred down to two posts, not one. So uh I I learned from structural engineering that uh that it's not about I can do this myself or I must do this myself. That's a lie.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

You know, I learned an early lesson about loads myself. When I was nine years old, I uh I was fascinated with fire trucks, and they had uh uh you know like a show and tell thing, and they brought the fire station guy, drove the truck over, rolled out the hoses, and showed us all, and I was super excited about it. And then they got everything packed up and they were getting ready to leave, and I ran and I jumped on the back of the fire truck because I wanted to hold on to the thing and ride on it. I was like nine years old, and man, they ran after the truck, and it was oh, it was horrible, and I was in like serious trouble in elementary school, corporal punishment, very popular then. And so they marched me over to the principal's office and they're like, all right, you're gonna get some licks, and you know, and I was like, okay, let's see. I have these two super balls, and you know, they're round, you know, they really bounced really. I said, you know, maybe if I put those two super balls in my back pocket, that paddle would just kind of like recoil and bounce off in my nine-year-old mind. You know, that seemed like a good idea. And so he used to bend over and I'm sure he could see those super balls. But see, I've been in his office before. My last name was savage, and he was like, Okay, you know what? I'm gonna let him keep those in there. And he went ahead and delivered the blows, and uh, I learned that it concentrated the load. And I had these two bruises on my backside that were just huge for where those super balls were, and it was a valuable early early lesson that I always thought about. Man, you need to distribute the load. You know, that was one early concept that I knew I was gonna be an engineer because I was like, all right, I've got to learn how to spread that load out over a larger area so it's not you know penetrating into my muscle tissue and giving me these huge bruises. So uh yeah, we all learn our engineering lessons, you know, and it kind of points us toward our our vocation. You know, I I like this Mark Twain quote that says, you know, the two most important days in your life are the day you were born and then the day you understand why. And you know, so that's that's also you know kind of understanding what our purpose and our and our giftedness

Self Governance As Masculine Strength

SPEAKER_01 28:30

is. So uh so you also said that you know you believe that self-governance, which is, by the way, you know, if you the spiritual fruit found in Galatians, you know, uh the fruit of the spirit is self-control. So self-governance is one of the highest forms of masculine strength. Now, explain that.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

You know, um I've met a number of individuals who think that maybe the guy gets promoted and he feels like he's way overwhelmed, and he's going, yeah, as uh vice president of uh XYZ, uh I feel like I'm not enough to do this. So I'm gonna act like I am, and I'm going to be ruthless and terrify everybody uh so that they'll they will know that I'm in charge, even though I don't believe that I'm enough. At least they'll be terrified and they won't question me. Um and of course, you know where I'm going with this, that doesn't work. Uh nobody likes the guy, they're gonna take every opportunity to sabotage him. Nobody wants to work for him. His team is far less likely to succeed, even no matter how much he yells, screams, and throws balls. Uh so the it it is the man who is like, yeah, I of course I'm not enough to do this job. Uh nobody is. You know, there's a hundred holes that any man has to fill, and at most any man has maybe 30 of those holes that he personally can fill. So I'm going to acknowledge that I am not all things to everything, and I'm going to go to my team and say, hey, you know, we let's work together. Let's uh let's figure out what goal we are trying to accomplish, or even say, look, you know, the following goals have been handed to us. How do we work together to make that happen? And then instead of having it be all about you as the team leader and commandant, it's about let's see what we can create together. Uh, a negative example I have of that, I used to work at the state, and it was um it was the Division of uh Environmental Quality, Department of Environmental Quality, and one of them was called uh Dr, Division of Environmental Response and Remediation. And that guy had probably, I'm gonna say, about a hundred employees under him, and he decided that since he was the commandant, that all decisions were gonna go through him. So every underground storage tank that needed to be removed or added, or every environmental cleanup, or uh every asbestos job that needed to be cleaned up was gonna go through him. He quickly found himself overwhelmed, and he's like, well, that's how it is, um, because everything is still gonna go through me. I rule. As a result, uh customers had to wait sometimes six or eight months just to get any little decision uh past him. And you know, you you don't you don't need an expert to know that that's a formula for failure. No entity, business uh or government or anything else should have a setup like that. But if you want to be the commander, then that's kind of how things go.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

The regulatory bureaucracy. Ah, yes. I guess have you ever had to deal with the Corps of Engineers on anything? Oh man, seven years to get a permit, you know, and it's all lawsuit avoidance, but yeah, you're right. I mean, I I totally get that. I don't know if our audience is, and I don't want to lose our audience, but uh so yes, self-governance and self-control uh and and actually humility, you know, to just say I don't I don't know at all is certainly uh true, and I I I believe that that is power, that is powerful for an organization.

Brotherhood That Can Hold The Truth

SPEAKER_01 32:40

So what what role do uh the brotherhood and men's groups and honest conversation play in helping men grow? And and tell us more about this manalizing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Let's let's go down that road. So there's one individual. You know, as a kid I was the nerd. Of course I was the nerd. I'm an engineer. You've got to be a nerd as a kid. Uh as a kid, I was a uh a nerd and I got bullied a lot. And basically it became ingrained in me that men are dangerous. Uh they're to be avoided, you don't speak to to men. Um it took me a long time to get past that. I was well into adulthood before I began to heal from that. Uh we're talking 40s and 50s. Um with that background, you know, we started analyzing, and there's one individual there who uh who comes to mind. I mean, I love every one of those guys. Uh they are the kind of best friend that I could go to and say, hey, you know, I've got a porn problem, or I'm thinking about suicide, or or uh I'm thinking about a divorce. Those men could handle a question like that. Uh even my best friends from prior to that could not handle a question like that, and I paid a heavy price personally, because I didn't have a friend like that. But um I am thinking of one man, his uh his name is Corey. He uh he has a different set of beliefs. He's a huge man, he's a former bouncer at a strip club to give you kind of an idea of uh of his makeup. Uh anger was his first and only tool. And you look at him and you see his size, and you see, and uh what I thought inside my head was this is not my kind of people. This is the kind of people I stay away from. And I began to develop a relationship with him because he came and I came. And that man has my highest respect at this point. Uh he is he is uh he call he's a shaman and he's my shaman. Uh I I love that man. I go to him for advice, even though his belief sets in mine are very different. Uh because I love his inner peace and his his wisdom. Uh that's the kind of stuff that you get when you build a community where men can actually see each other, uh, where men can be seen and be heard honestly without judgment.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

So, how about

Building The Stone And Pine Retreat

SPEAKER_01 35:20

this uh stone and pine? You know, why why are you building a retreat property for men? And what what's the objective there?

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Stone and pine, I'm just gonna be honest. Uh the the original goal was to find a place where men could meet and we could pound on tongue and drums together. Uh I had I I guess I I I won't elaborate on the tong and drum story, but there's there's a feeling, a testosterone, and uh uh I don't even know what the words are, but it it you you feel those tong and drums after a while. You begin to understand the culture. And and then it was like, well, we uh we need a place for them to stay, and and how are we gonna do that? And so what it it turned into a massive project is gonna cost about as much as my house. But um it'll be awesome, and it'll be a place where not only can men meet, um, but it'll be it'll be a place where where training can happen. And it's uh it it's not just that, but there will be uh there will be retreats of uh of you know there can be shooting there, there can be uh corporate retreats, all of that. And as part of that, I'm going to give each of those individuals an opportunity to have a taste of many. It'll be the place where manalizing training happens. So um Tonga drums.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Can can I come and learn how to play the Tongan drums?

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

That sounds like something a savage you know needs to add to his uh skill set there. And it's and and I I'm sure it's in the the wilderness somewhere where it where is your place?

SPEAKER_03 37:11

It's out it's out near Duchesne, Utah, which is uh very much sagebrush and pink rock.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

As a child, I thought it was the ugliest place on the planet. And as an adult, I I look at it with different eyes, and you can see there's a lot of beauty there.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Yeah, I I'm from West Texas, uh San Angelo, and I love the desert. And I always have. You know, I used to go to Big Ben National Park as a kid growing up, and that was like my my playground, and people were like, Yeah, what it's just that it's so open, you can see so far. It it feels desolate, but then when you actually get to looking around, there's a lot of life. I mean, we were in Big Ben just last November and we saw uh a bear, a black bear. People are like, What? There's bears, and then we saw uh a mountain lion, which is extremely rare to see during the day. But our someone in our group actually got a video of it and we saw coyotes, and you know, uh, but yeah, I think and that you know, Jesus went to the wilderness. You know, that's where he was tempted and or where he would retreat away from the crowd. So uh I think that's definitely biblical too.

Where To Find The Book

SPEAKER_01 38:19

So so where can listeners go? Garth, uh, to learn more about your book about Mandalizing the Stone Pine, if they want to dig into this a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Well, let's start with the book. You can always go to poweroverforce.com if you want to read the book or listen to the book. And I I haven't read anything in a thousand years, but I've listened to so many books uh on Audible. Um so if you if you were to go on Audible to Power Over Force, you'll find uh my book and you'll find um David Hawkins' book. And he wrote Power versus Force and he is the pioneer of all this.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Uh his his book uh in some ways it's kind of hippie, but he had a couple of very powerful chapters where he introduces what power and force are. And uh I gotta acknowledge him. He's he's the pioneer.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

And so you uh you can i it might not be bad to choose both. But Audible is one place. You can go to Amazon and find the book there. Uh Poweroverforce.com, where we'll have more information there about upcoming training events or whatever events we're doing. And then is analyzing.com, and that's uh that's showing where our events are. Uh right now all of the events are pretty local to Utah. We are not opposed to uh having them at other locations. It takes someone who is willing to uh to lead the group. There's no money at all associated in in in any of it. Um so it's uh it's purely a uh work of love. And um uh and then of course you've got to be able to invite some guys and we have a format for what analyzing is and what it's not. Um for example you know we we we start with we we have a procedure for for what it looks and feels like so that men will feel comfortable and open up and talk about stuff that just tears your heart out. Uh and what it's not is dinner or get in the hot tub and yammer or you know, that sort of thing. Um this uh banalizing is something where i it's not just a guy bunch of guys getting together and playing games. It's an opportunity it's a moment where guys get together and bond and lift and be lifted, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Okay. So

Final Message And Closing Prayer

SPEAKER_01 41:10

in closing, you know what message would you like to leave ringing in the ears of young men who might be listening out there about power over force?

SPEAKER_03 41:21

Let's do that this way. Um now I'm reading. I've got I got this sign on my wall. Power over force is choosing alignment over insecurity. Power is calm, power is present and authentic. Power knows who it is. Alright. Um power doesn't posture, it doesn't disappear. I could go on about how I disappear when I get when I get uncomfortable. But power it doesn't disappear. Force is the counterfeit. Force is control, it's reaction, it's withdrawal, it's manipulation. Um power wins, force is the is guaranteed to lose uh in the long term.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Yeah. I like that power doesn't disappear, you know, because when you think about Ephesians and the spiritual armor, you know, uh the full armor of God, you know, it's like you have the helmet of salvation, you have the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, and you have all this stuff so that you can stand you know against those uh evil principalities, you know, and and it's not disappearing or retreating. It's uh I'm gonna make my stand. So I like that. Uh let's just close there with prayer and I'll just close out here. Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for Garth and for the work that he's doing with power over force, with the Pine Stone Retreat Center that he's uh working on, and you know, the the help that he's trying to offer to people who are really isolated. And you know, he's talked about suicide and that three out of four people that commit suicide are men, and you know, I've been involved with the PTSD organization and the military members here, and even emergency workers, you know, have uh PTSD from the horrible crime scenes, you know, that they end up being at. And so we've just asked that everyone out there who feels like they're fighting alone, they're bearing these loads alone, that they would tap into those supernatural power and resources that come from the Holy Spirit that are good, that can help us withstand all of this because we're really not children enough. We're surrendering them to you and just that's the method of respect. We'll also hear it.