Survival Isn't Living: with Kenny Schroeder (Tactical Tools for Thriving Team)

This week, we're giving you a behind-the-scenes pass to the Tactical Tools for Thriving First Responders Symposium. (And spoiler alert—it’s not just another conference.) Erin and Cinnamon pull Kenny Schroeder—firefighter, peer supporter, all-around behind-the-scenes wizard—into the studio to talk about how this event was born, why it still matters, and how it's changing lives four years later.

We get real about the explosion of first responder wellness events lately—(which, yes, we’re thrilled about)—but also dig into the real gap that still exists: the everyday conversations, the rookies who don't know what they don't know yet, and the people stuck in the trenches thinking this is “just the way it has to be.”

Kenny talks about what it takes to shift the culture, how a single symposium literally helped him save his own life, and why it’s not about fancy vendors or swag bags—it’s about hope. It's about getting out of survival mode and into living.

Whether you're a responder, a spouse, a chief, a rookie, or someone trying to find your way back to yourself, there’s something here for you. Come for the pizza, stay for the healing.

Tactical Tools for Thriving happens May 5th in Erlanger, KY—and if you’re feeling the FOMO after this episode, there’s still time to grab your seat. Bring a friend. Grab a rookie. Grab your damn self. Let’s go.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop has been presented and sponsored by Whole House Counseling. After the Tones Drop is for informational purposes only and does not constitute for medical or psychological advice. It is not a substitute for professional health care advice diagnosis or treatment. Please contact a local mental health professional in your area if you are in need of assistance. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information.

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Transcript

EP105: Surviving Isn't Living

Erin: [00:00:00] Welcome back to after the tones drop. We're excited. We have a full week coming up in the next week because today is Monday. And next Monday we will be at the Tactical Tools for Thriving First Responders Symposium. I'm sure that if you have been watching our social media, you've been seeing all kinds of videos and fun graphics and all kinds of great stuff, and maybe you're even wondering what the heck is this thing that after the tones drop, keeps posting out, and maybe you're, feeling a little fomo and you wanna be there and we strongly encourage you to absolutely come to this annual event taking place in Erlanger or Kentucky.

But we wanted to actually bring our good friend Kenny Schroeder on today to talk a little bit about what this thing is, why it's important, the differences that he's been seeing in the first responder community in the world of mental health. But Kenny is, the busiest busy body I've ever seen behind the scenes of the symposium.

[00:01:00] He has. Put his blood, sweat and tear. I don't know about blood. Has there been blood? Probably some sweat. Yeah, 

Kenny: maybe a little blood. 

Cinnamon: Paper cuts. 

Erin: But Kenny is also a firefighter, and, part of the, Kentucky first responder peer support team. so he's got irons and a lot of fires not to mention a family and All of the fun things. 

Cinnamon: he's not just a firefighter or just a peer support. Or a dad or husband. You wear lots of hats and he does it with a smile on his face all the time. I've never seen this man's feathers ruffled ever. 

Erin: We've tried, 

Kenny: I, I thought we were talking about the symposium.

Cinnamon: See, see, look. He is like, yeah. you're a wonder, Kenny. You're a wonder. We love you and we're grateful to have ridden this several month long ride with you. 

Erin: Absolutely. 

Kenny: Same. [00:02:00] Thank you. 

Erin: I was gonna say, we understand if you have second thoughts about us coming back to support again next year. Never. We have big visions, 

Cinnamon: Between the OCD and the and ADHD Right. It can be a lot to handle us. 

Kenny: definitely. 

Erin: it's a gift and an honor, and we're happy to be a part of this. And I'm wondering, can you take us back to the beginning? What sparked this idea? Obviously we would've loved to have Phil here today, but he's with family, so what sparked this whole event?

Kenny: Yeah, so I'm glad you brought his name up because he really is, the brain's division behind this. it was his creation, specifically to have it here. You know, I know there's been other conferences and things like that across the country, but to bring this here to the. I don't even remember how you call it. Ky-hio area. 

Cinnamon: Ohio, yeah. 

Kenny: Northern Kentucky, Cincinnati, south, whatever you want to call it. it was his vision. now that we're in our fourth year, about maybe four and a half years ago, probably longer than that. If you talk to Phil, it's probably [00:03:00] been his vision for a long time. but he saw the need just like we all have of not having the resources, and not being able to make those connections to get first responders, the help that they really need.

 So it was his design and idea to, to have this symposium to bring all that together, and that's what he wanted, like to bring the first responders and the resources sitting in the same room all at the same time to hear. All the information that's out there, all the hope that is out there, all the tools that can be used, to everybody, have that conversation altogether at the same time.

So that's where it began, like I said, four years ago and now here we are today, getting ready to embark on the fourth annual on, Cinco de Mayo, 

Erin: go de Mayo, you know. Here's what I find interesting, and this word has been coming up quite a bit, which is this word saturated.

Like now, even in only four short years, there are a lot of conferences and symposiums and classes and workshops out [00:04:00] there. did you ever imagine four years ago that. One tactical tools, which hasn't always been called that, but it would be what it is today. And that just this realm would be what it is today.

Kenny: Yeah. I never would've imagined, I never would've imagined being able to do something like this, and host, conference symposium, with all of the resources and the attendees, together, just, you know, from,from the beginning of my career, it didn't exist. We weren't talking about it.

And even, five or six years ago, it wasn't really being done this way. So I'm happy that we have finally made it here. I'm happy that the market is saturated, you know, and that the word is out there. Like that makes my heart, so happy to see that and to know that the conversations are being had and that hopefully the individuals that need the help are now getting the help.

Erin: Definitely. 

Cinnamon: I wanna kind of hone in on that idea of it being saturated, but at the same [00:05:00] time, we are constantly hearing and seeing, on social media, we need to do more, right? So we've got some people that are still needing access to that, like mental health 1 0 1 and.

Have the narrative of we need to do more because we still have folks that are taking their lives. And to downgrade it as simple as like the quality of life of a first responder can still suffer. so what do you think is in between, we need to do more and the market is saturated?

How do we use this saturation to. Address the, we need to do more piece, because I know that can be frustrating for us as, being in the business of helping people save their own lives. But what would you say as somebody who's a peer and an advocate? 

Kenny: I would say what really is missing and I don't know how to do this yet, but it's those one-on-one conversations.

And just being [00:06:00] a human to another human, kindness to somebody else and just being there to listen and to let them know like, Hey, there's help out there. This is how you get it. We have the conferences, people attend them. But it's not necessarily the right people, you know?it's those that already get the idea.

They already know that, wellness is important, or it's the chiefs that know that wellness is important. You know, those are the ones that I feel like are showing up. It's the ones that don't know that there's a better way yet. And I think that is what is missing is having those conversations with them to where, so a one-on-one personal conversation. You know, in the past I've had people come to me. knowing that they need help and seeing me as a resource to, to get there, you know, I'm just a facilitator to get them there. But it's how do we get the word out to them before they need it?

And that, I feel like, is this still the conversation that's not taking place yet? Or we just haven't figured out [00:07:00] how to do that yet? Like is it in recruit class? I mean, that certainly gets the information out there, but. They haven't experienced anything yet. They're not necessarily suffering with anything yet, so they don't realize the importance of it.

I feel like I answered your question with more questions and answers, and I apologize for that, but I think that's still what is missing. 

Cinnamon: That's great answer slash question because that start that dialogue. 'cause what I heard, we're not the decision makers for the academy, but what would it mean?

Like we have the, the promo, however we'd like to say it, of five. Individuals from any department or municipality we did a, discounted ticket. So what would it look like if any new hire within the first 12 months of them being with your department? they get put on the list of,not, I don't wanna say a mandatory, but like an opportunity to come attend this, that,they are voluntold.

But if we start to [00:08:00] normalize some of those simple ideas, and I think there are a lot of ideas out there that we haven't had yet, but what you just said literally made me think I. what if we had like a new hire discount or we did a, an advertisement towards, anyone who's come into the field or joined a new department in the last 12 months?

And this is your chance to go because you're not the first person. I talked to somebody else who's in a leadership role who said, I just don't want the same people going every year. And those are the same people. Like those are the people that wanna come. But we do wanna spread that wealth.

Kenny: Right. And it's because they know the importance of it. And I'm not saying that to make anybody else wrong, but I'm just saying they understand the value. they know what it means to be healthy. Just get it. And I love that idea. You know, if we can encourage chiefs to send new hires to any symposium, it doesn't have to be ours, but any 

Erin: right 

Kenny: conference or symposium on wellness, like that's a wonderful idea because it, may not be them that needs it, like it may not be them at all that needs the support.

It [00:09:00] may be somebody else that comes to them that needs the support. So why not prepare new recruits for, 

Cinnamon: yeah, it's that proactive piece of like before you get to that point where you are trying to decide, do I want to speak to an individual like you, Kenny, about what's going wrong or why I'm having a hard time?

A lot of the presenters that we bring in. like I know one of your favorites, Megan, and I'll let you speak about her a little bit, but she talks about nutrition Those are the preventative, proactive things that we can give these folks who may not have had their own mental health crisis where they're learning like, how do I avoid it?

In the ways that I can by doing things like listening to Megan talk about food or listening to Brandon talk about sleep or listen to Lynn talk about how to have a healthy marriage, [00:10:00] whatever those things are. because I think we do have a good mix of preventative, proactive and reactive and, continual kind of efforts across the board of the speakers.

Can you talk a little bit about the proactive side of the speaker selections? 

Kenny: Yeah. we try to be, As forward thinking as possible, when it comes to the symposiums and just bringing in, speakers, experts in their fields on things that are up and coming, research base.

Absolutely. But also some things maybe you didn't think of. nutrition is definitely one of those. sleep is definitely one of those. and all the different speakers speaking on the topics that they. Are, you know, including the panel, are just going to be amazing, and just resources that are out there that maybe you hadn't thought of before.

And I think it's interesting because, we all have these issues, right? I don't eat the healthiest all the time. I don't sleep the best all the time. And when you [00:11:00] can normalize that. With others in the room and say, look, I'm having that problem too. Or they can say, I'm having that problem too. So much power in that, you know, and saying like, oh, I'm not alone anymore.

I. And then you get the added benefit of having a mag and lots in, the room, telling you about nutrition and how you can eat healthier, having a brand and dry man in there telling you about sleep. so it's a super powerful, just space to be able to come together and learn more. And then, also, like I've said a couple of times already, just the hope,that can be the missing piece.

A lot of times it's just not seeing, where the hope is in a situation. 

Cinnamon: Like, it doesn't have to be this way, right? just 'cause you do this job. even what you just said about normalizing that on the flip side, I think Erin and I, because we do wellness checks, we see the normalization of the poor sleep.

and get it, but the problem becomes, it's just the way that it is. And I'm not the only one. this [00:12:00] is everybody's experience, so. There's nothing to do about it. And so maybe it's also the coming together of normalizing it so everybody doesn't feel like they're the only one. And also acknowledging, and it doesn't have to be like this, and here are some ways to do that.

Kenny: Right? Yeah. It doesn't have to be like this, like that is earth shattering, mind blowing, to a lot of first responders. ' because they just don't feel like there's another way. when you're busy making calls all night and you feel like sleep is never going to be your friend, it doesn't have to always be that way, 

Erin: Yeah. I'm curious because you've been at this and seen every ebb and flow for the past four years. We know what we're excited about this year with the sleep, with the nutrition, I'm excited about accelerated resolution therapy. We even have a resiliency partner who does ketamine intervention therapy, which is new.

there's so much cool stuff out there, but [00:13:00] is there any. Standout moment or experience with any of the speakers or any, in any of the past years that you've been there that just kind of like held onto you and really stuck out? 

Kenny: There is no way I could pick just one. I think that the thing that stands out is just, the feeling that I get, when I'm there, when I'm in it. Just that energy, and it's hard to describe other than just a energizing energy, you know, it's just a very positive experience. but to pick out one thing from ours, there's just no way I could do it. I would say again, the different unique, presenters and, resources that come to it, the.

The just Midwest, Kentucky vibe that you get when you're there, and never meeting a stranger. and just having a safe environment, to know that you can share and really get to a healing spot, and maybe that's it. Maybe just witnessing that, just the amount of lives that have [00:14:00] been transformed as a part of it, you know, not because of it, but just as a part of it.

 And seeing individuals get their lives back, which is really amazing. I've spoken to a number of individuals that after coming to the symposium, they've done different things, different therapies, or just utilize different resources. And now, they're in a totally different place. not struggling, not saying that life doesn't happen, but they're just not struggling anymore, which is amazing, and that's what we want for everybody.

So. Absolutely. I would say that's, probably it for me is just that, not just one moment, but all of those moments. 

Erin: Yeah, and I love that you brought up the whole Midwestern vibe kind of concept, idea. Because I know that there is something very special about this part of the country and the way that things are done down in Ky-Hio.

and I was even sharing that with Kenny Mitchell, who is one of our keynotes this year, is that he's never [00:15:00] met a group of people like this. From this particular area of the country that is just so passionate and loving and kind and open and supportive and fun. we're fun too. and so I'm glad that you highlighted that because I do think that kind of sets this apart from some of the other ones, just that general overall vibe.

And it's not just us, it's brothers helping brothers in Phoenix Project and all the other ones that are going on. In this general area of Ohio and northern Kentucky. So I think that really matters, to highlight. 

Kenny: yeah. They're not coming for the beach views or, the mountain backgrounds.

there must be something either something in the water or maybe it is the people, you know? that's what I like to say it is. So the 

Cinnamon: river. They're coming for. It's the chili,the view of the river and the chili that goes with it. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: the one thing in talking about this, and everybody [00:16:00] has a story, I hear that a lot, right? everybody's got a story and, the reason that we see folks get passionate about this is typically because they have their own story and.

There are a lot of folks who are going to be storytelling, in a variety of ways. So Kenny, what do you feel like is the value of one peer sharing? What it was like, what happened and what it's like now in these rooms cause I was running the registration, I can see who's selecting what. Breakout sessions, and it's always interesting to me, when people read a title, what is drawing them to that?

So what do you feel the story as a peer has to offer? 

Kenny: Well, everybody loves listening to a story, and I think the power of it in this instance is that you can see parts of your own story [00:17:00] and their story. So when you can see parts of your struggling story and their story and then hear of the growth, the hope, all that on the other side of it, that gives you that same hope of like, it doesn't have to be this way again.

You know, I don't have to stay in this struggle. there is an opportunity to make change and be different. And so that's where I see that power is just, putting yourself in those shoes and allowing the speaker, to guide you along that way. and by sharing that, like the speaker just being open and vulnerable, that allows you then in turn to be open and vulnerable. And then just have nothing but compassion and love as part of that. 

Erin: definitely 

Cinnamon: Yeah, in hopes that not only are we reaching our attendees, but our resource partners, the folks that will be tabling, letting our attendees know what resources they have [00:18:00] available, I know a lot of times I can go to these places and it's like, how can we get rid of all of our pins or all of our, stress balls so we don't have to carry them back? And it can get a little bit overwhelming when you have a lot of people coming, to you over the course of that. But I also know some of the most powerful opportunities that I've had, and I've watched people even Friday, walk up to Erin and I and say.

I don't even look the same, do I? And I didn't know who it was. They spoke to me last year, like took time to stop and share their story and be honest. And a year later, they're a completely different person. so for our resource partners, can you kind of express a little bit like the importance of making sure you do take the time to have those maybe.

Level three or four deeper conversations with some of the attendees that capture your attention rather [00:19:00] than, just like getting overwhelmed with, the numbers that may be coming at you. 

Kenny: Yeah. you know, and again, this is a team effort, right? So this is team as far as us that put it on, all the first responders that attend, and especially the resources that attend to.

None of this would be possible without that and definitely do not overestimate the impact that you can have. As a resource by being there that day, not only hearing the stories and maybe being touched a little bit by that yourself, because you're gonna hear part of your story in there as well, just as a vendor or a resource, but also human.

Yeah, being human like. That's it. the conversations you can have with first responders again, just really being that little nugget of hope that maybe they need. To not only get through the day, 'cause we don't know what's going on for everybody, every individual that's there. But then also to move as we say, from surviving to [00:20:00] thriving.

Like this is tactical tools to thrive. And so that's really where we want the connection to be, is like you don't have to stick in your suffering. You don't have to just survive every day. You need to get your life back. You deserve to get your life back. Everybody deserves that. So let's move in that direction as a resource.

You can absolutely provide that for any first responder that's in attendance, so don't ever underestimate the power of that conversation. 

Erin: That was a beautiful answer. Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. I love the impromptu kind of putting you on the spot and bringing you in today to be able to do this because Yes, of course it is about tactical tools for thriving, but it's about all of the opportunities that are out there and encouraging folks to hop on the conference, train, get out there. If you're one of those people that does go and understands the importance of it, grab that rookie. Grab a buddy. Encourage [00:21:00] them to come with you.

Tell them they don't have to speak, they don't have to do anything. They just gotta sit there in a chair if we can each just bring one, it can make a huge difference. because I know that We kind of pulled you into this and you were getting ready to go out and do things for your day.

I am curious, and this is not necessarily a tactical tools question. This is more Kenny specific question, We know you personally, we know all the work that you've done. We know the heart that you have and the difference that you've made for so many responders and just people in general, but responders in that area.

So if there was one thing that you could say to the person listening to this right now about taking care of themselves and the importance of that, what would that be?

Kenny: So I was going to just say, we have to take care of ourselves, like we deserve that. But I feel like I need to [00:22:00] say as well, with a conference, with the symposium, this is what gave me my life back. It wasn't this specific one, but attending one. literally saved my life. And if I wasn't there, if all that didn't align, I don't know if I'd be here today.

So please, whoever's listening, if you feel like you're in that same spot or know somebody in that same spot, come get them there. It's gonna have an impact. And again. Move from just surviving a day to actually living the way that they're supposed to be, because that's the way they were designed to be.

You know, they were designed to be Erin and Cinnamon and Kenny, you know, living our best lives. however we want that to be. [00:23:00] so come to the symposium and get your life back. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but mic 

Cinnamon: drop. 

Erin: I know. I appreciate that vulnerable answer of course we know that a lot of stars aligned to get you to where you are today, but you chose to grab that tail, that star, and go right.

and I think that. Is the important thing to highlight is there are so much out there, but it's up to you to grab on and go on the ride. and you did that and we've watched so many people do that. Heck, we did it in our own way. so I. value you and Phil and all of the powers that be, that have made this happen for the past four years.

It's been beautiful to watch it evolve and grow and change and Then Cinnamon and Erin come and are like, we need to do these, we, these extras. Which, you know, we have a spreadsheet for that, [00:24:00] but 

Kenny: entertaining for sure.

Erin: thank you. That's such a lovely way to say, to say that, I do and very, very neutral to positive, right. But was there Any burning desires that you had to ask Kenny before we wrap up today? 

Cinnamon: Yeah, I had one thing, and actually I had written it down before you had, shared your own experience about attending a conference and it making such a difference because a lot of times we have heard, and especially when I first started doing this work, I heard a lot, it's not like I'm suicidal and I always thought If that is our bar, we are really aiming quite low. so even if you are not in that place, but you are not living that high quality of life, what does. You know, this isn't the place where I'm gonna get the thing that maybe has me [00:25:00] live another day. But when we look at folks who have maybe been that frog that's been in the slowly boiling water, and maybe their quality of life just isn't, you know, I always say we have one rodeo man.

One rodeo. Make it the best possible. what would you say to those people who. May not be at that place, but don't know what this has to offer them in terms of just making their life better.

Kenny: Yeah. wasn't thank goodness that sound starting to sound weird. As I was saying, it wasn't always suicidal. Um,but I, there were days where I just. I would be okay if I didn't wake up, And that I think is a lighter way to put it, maybe. Mm-hmm. Um, but when you look at it through the lens that you just addressed of, that's not really a way to live.

You know, by saying that you're not really alive. you're just kind of consuming oxygen and, and have [00:26:00] a pulse. so this. Space gives you the ability to just get a taste of what can be possible, right? it's just a possibility. It's just hope, you know? And I think for someone struggling a little bit or a lot, you can find that here in as simple as a conversation, like just a conversation.

 Can get that started. So for those that may be overwhelmed of coming to a conference and having to be around people, ' cause I know you know first responders don't always like that. 

just know it can be as simple as a very kind midwestern conversation that can last all of about five minutes. And then that conversation, you realize you're not alone in how you struggle.

And then you get to have a little hope that. Tomorrow can be different.

Cinnamon: That's it. That's what I wanted them to hear. Yeah. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: You are a walking, talking miracle, Kenny Schroeder. And one of [00:27:00] the many things that I love about you in the time that I've gotten to know you and gotten to know you better is.

You have such a passion for making sure that nobody else suffers, that you have found a variety of ways to serve your peers, and it is so impressive that I feel very lucky that our community in Ky-hio has you. Thank you. Me too. Thank you. And that we have you. He got you on speed dial. 

Erin: All right, well. No sleep till Brooklyn. No. What do they say? I don't know. 

Cinnamon: This is it. No, that did no sleep till Brooklyn. What, Erin, what are the deets again? Where are we gonna be? When are we gonna be there? if you didn't even know about this and now you're hearing about it and you're like, holy hell, how do I get into this jam? 

Erin: Like, where are they gonna find that? of course I always put everything on the show notes and we have the information [00:28:00] for it on. after the tones drop.com, but it is the tactical tools for Thriving First Responder symposium. It is gonna be Cinco de Mayo, May 5th. That's easy to remember. just a one day event with 15 powerful speakers, including three keynotes as well as various breakout sessions. One of our Breakout session speakers is also hosting an event that evening, advocating for the importance of incorporating sports into your mental health journey, which I know a lot of people will love that. And he is taking folks on an adventure of rock climbing.

It's gonna be kind of a session. There's like an intention behind it, so it's not just a bunch of responders climbing rocks. There's a purpose to it. we have, Corrections officers and that whole world being represented this year for the first time. So we're really excited about that because we hear way too often that [00:29:00] those voices are silenced a lot or not heard.

They're not invited into the party, and they're a hundred percent part of this party. So that is exciting. William Young is gonna come And Amp us up 'cause he is a passionate dude and funny and just very blunt and direct. And then we also have a couple, the O'Barsky's coming in and. I am personally very thrilled for Tara to come and speak about her side of how it was for her as a spouse to watch her husband's decline and what it looked like for their family to come out of that together.

because again, just like the corrections officers and the dispatchers, the spouses tend to get overlooked and they are just as much warriors in this as anybody else. So this. Is for our veterans. This is for our spouses. This is for all those people that feel like they haven't, had their voice represented in that same capacity as maybe the firefighters in the law enforcement.

We're just so excited. St. Elizabeth's Training [00:30:00] Center Erlanger, or Kentucky, may the fifth be there or be Square, bring a friend because we have got a lot in store for you all. Yeah. Did I forget anything? 

Cinnamon: an e, any, or did you hear it too? It's the St. Elizabeth Training and Education Center and so all, it was just the e in the ctec this is the OCD, right?

Like I, I'm like, I. There's education. it's irrelevant, but I'm jonesing. 

Kenny: Yeah, it's the bottom line is it's gonna be amazing. So 

Cinnamon: it's gonna, that's all you have say, 

Erin: and cut my oc d shit out. And I'll not, but luckily. it's all gonna be in the show notes and it's all gonna be on our website and it's everywhere.

And shout out to Kentucky first responder peer support team and Phil Hall for getting this thing going and just making, sure that we continue to keep up this momentum. And it looks different every year. and it's still equally as beautiful. [00:31:00] So thank you to all of you on the peer team who keep showing up because.

Often y'all are just floating around behind the scenes and nobody knows who is who but it gets done every year. And so we thank you and acknowledge you for all of your hard work, you and your team, and the vision and executing on the vision. Good old Phil. So, alright friends, I'm sure we'll be texting in the next hour, but.

For our listener, we will see you on May 5th, and if not hours, then please make sure that you're getting to one local to you that can, get you some tools and resources that I think you'll find supportive. 

Cinnamon: I would just like to add one teeny, tiny last thing. If this is something that gets you going and you would like to collaborate with us next year and volunteer on the planning committee, just reach out to Erin and I at:

info@afterthetonesdrop.com and we'll add you, we'll get you on the list and we'd love more passionate hands in [00:32:00] the process. Mm-hmm. 

Erin: Everybody likes a helper. 

Kenny: Yep. team. Effort for the 

Erin: helpers, team effort. All right. We will see you all soon. Thank you so much, Kenny.

Cinnamon: Thank you. All right. Enjoy lunch, sir.