Vet Centers

Larry Zilliox

Good morning . I'm Larry Zilliox , your host , Director of Culinary Services here at the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run , and today our guest is Ryan Hinely . He is a program outreach coordinator , I think maybe I think I got that right and at the Vet Center in DC , and he's joining us today so we can have a conversation about the Vet Center and what goes on there and what services they provide to veterans . So , Ryan , welcome to the podcast . Thank you , Larry . It's great to have you .

Larry Zilliox

We have known each other for quite a while because we would run into each other at table events and at all sorts of places , from breweries and just all sorts of events where veteran service organizations are out there with information on services to veterans , and you were here this summer for our Corvette show , which hopefully was good . You talked to a lot of people . So let's start by just giving us a quick overview of Vet Centers . I think what's going to surprise people the most is how many Vet Centers there are . I'm not mistaken , it's somewhere around 300 nationwide and even in the territories like Puerto Rico and Guam . So what goes on there ? What are the services that you all offer ?

Ryan Hinely

Sure Well , thank you for having me here today , larry . I appreciate it . This is a beautiful retreat center for wounded and injured veterans and their families . I've really enjoyed outreaching here in the past at the Corvette show that you mentioned .

Ryan Hinely

So Vet Centers are a department of Veterans Affairs counseling . It's a counseling program for veterans and active duty service members . You're correct , there are 300 in the US , so they're part of the Veterans Health Administration and part of the VA Medical Center ecosystem . However , the individual Vet Centers are out in the community so they're structured like outpatient clinics . There's 300 in the US and they do individual couples , family and group therapy for both veterans and active duty service members . So a little unique within the VA ecosystem in that they deal a lot with active duty as well as veterans . They also do a lot of community engagement . So every Vet Center typically has a veteran outreach program specialist whose job is to coordinate with community members and community partners and stakeholders and , depending on the community and just the region and what's available in other nonprofits , they try to partner with those nonprofits to offer additional services . So my Vet Center , for example , in DC , we partner with the equine therapy organization in Maryland as well as the art therapy nonprofit and a few other local nonprofits essentially , and how many employees are there ?

Larry Zilliox

How big is a Vet Center ?

Ryan Hinely

So they can vary a lot . The one I work at currently has three employees , but often they can have 10 , 12 . I've heard of some that have seven or eight counselors . They're smaller outpatient clinics , so typically in the range of like five to maybe 12 .

Larry Zilliox

And is yours small because you're in DC and a lot of the services that a Vet Center , say , in Oklahoma , would provide are just being taken care of by other aspects of the VA , because the VA has a huge presence in DC . Not only is headquarters there , but there's one of the VA Medical Centers is right there in DC too .

Ryan Hinely

So that's a great question . We're actually looking to hire two additional counselors to get fully staffed , so we're kind of in that transitional space . In the DC region there are four Vet Centers , so there's one in Silver Spring , maryland , there's one in Prince George's County , maryland , and there's one in Alexandria , virginia . So to some extent for this region there is a little bit of overlap with Vet Centers in Syria . I would say most states have about a half dozen Vet Centers , sometimes more , depending on the size of the state . Is there ?

Larry Zilliox

any talk of a Vet Center out in northern Virginia , out sort of the western part of Virginia here .

Ryan Hinely

So the closest ones to Haymarket Virginia would be probably the Alexandria Vet Center and then the DC Vet Center . There is one in Richmond and there's one in Roanoke as well as one in Martinsburg , west Virginia , so unfortunately there's not one here . I know they . I've heard there will be one in Fredericksburg , but I don't know the timeline for that because they're building a medical center there .

Larry Zilliox

Well , when you run into the head of the VA and he asks you hey , how's it going ? What can we do to improve things , you could tell him that , yeah , the Vet Center for Prince William County , loudoun County of Frederick County , the earth's close to Alexandria , it's what ? Only 22 miles , that's an hour plus drive for us . You know , it might be close in distance but it's certainly not close in time , and I think there's a lot of veterans that are out in Western Virginia , in the Shenandoah area and out that way , that are underserved because it's just too , it takes too much time to go to these services . I'm sure , whatever what they're doing in Alexandria is amazing , but I'm a little bit concerned that there's a lot of veterans that aren't getting services . Hopefully they're getting those services from the state , but they're missing out on what the VA has to offer , and those services primarily are counseling services there at the vet center .

Ryan Hinely

That's correct . So it's all various talk therapy modalities , Typically trauma-focused modalities . So really the core of the program is counseling for trauma associated with military service . It can be military sexual trauma , it can be PTSD , although we don't need a PTSD diagnosis . So really , the way the program is structured , we encourage people just to call us and we will do the best we can to help them .

Ryan Hinely

We try not to turn anybody away . So we do have eligibility criteria which are primarily based around has someone deployed , has someone been in an active war zone ? They don't have to have been in combat just if they've done the deployment or did they have some type of trauma while in service . And it's important to note that that includes the National Guard and Reserve . So anyone currently in the Guard or Reserves is actually eligible categorically for the program , as well as a few other eligibility categories . So anyone that is currently using a VA education benefit through GI Bill , voc , rehab , things like that , they would be eligible for counseling at a vet center .

Ryan Hinely

And then we also do bereavement counseling . So for families that have lost a veteran who died while in active duty service , we can work with them , or that would be a Gold Star family , Yep . And then families that have lost a veteran or service member to suicide . We can also work with them . And then any . If a veteran were receiving vets in our services and passed away during that time , we could work with the families and do bereavement counseling . Okay .

Larry Zilliox

And do you have to be registered with the VA health system , have a disability rating or anything , to get service , or can you just can you do it independent of be getting ?

Ryan Hinely

help through the VA . So that is a great question , larry , and the answer is no . We encourage people to just reach out to us and we'll do the best we can to get them connected . Folks , you know , people do not have to be eligible for healthcare at a VA medical center to be eligible for vets in our services . So we see people that may not be eligible for VA healthcare because they didn't serve two years , for example , or they don't meet the income criteria for healthcare at a hospital , but we can still work with them and we can work with active duty . So we really strongly encourage people to just call us and have a conversation with the outreach worker or a counselor and we'll do the best we can to link them appropriately . We do encourage people if they're getting vets in our services and they're eligible for healthcare at a medical center , we encourage them to get connected that way because there's additional , for example , vets in our counseling . We don't do any psychiatric intervention , we don't diagnose so for kind of the full wraparound services that could be available to someone within the VA system . We encourage them to pursue that and we work pretty closely with the medical centers in terms of veterans that are enrolled at a medical center and in a vet center you know there might be collaboration to support the individual with their care . As far as benefits , we don't do benefits processing in-house but we every vet center is going to have a good relationship with veteran service organizations . So DAV , vfw , american Legion , any accredited veteran service organization that has veteran service officers that can assist someone with benefits paperwork we will connect the veteran to those VSOs . My vet center works very closely with the DCVFW . They've done a lot to support our vets . They outreach once a month at our vet center .

Ryan Hinely

We really strongly encourage veterans . If they're trying to start the benefits process and they're not sure how to do it . We encourage them to get connected with a good VSO and in fact I even working in DC . I encounter vets from all over the country because they're traveling for Veterans Day or Memorial Day or work and they'll sometimes they'll ask me if I'm outreaching on behalf of the vet center . They'll say , well , how can I get benefits and what I'll often do ?

Ryan Hinely

If they live in Kentucky , for example , or Texas or someplace , I will look up the vet center that is closest to where they live and you can do that by ZIP code . There's a website , wwwvagov , forward slash , find hyphen locations and you can search for any VA facility . You know a VBA , regional office , a medical center , an outpatient clinic , vet centers . So I'll just look up the closest vet center to where they live , call the vet center and I'll say you know , I work at this vet center . I talked to this veteran that's in your area . They're looking for a good VSO . Can you recommend one ? Invariably they . You know they have a good working relationship with a VSO , so I'll I'll pass on that information to the veterans . So their vet centers are a great resource for anyone that's just looking to get plugged into the veteran resource ecosystem for that for that region or city , right . So you know I use that in my own work if I'm trying to help a veteran in a different part of the country .

Larry Zilliox

And so what kind of counseling is available at the vet center ? What is it typical ? Is it one-on-one , is it group counseling ? What , what , what goes on .

Ryan Hinely

So it's both depending on the preference of the veteran . We do individual counseling , we do couples , couples counseling , family counseling as well as group therapy . So the groups within the program have a very strong reputation . We have groups in my vet center that have been together for 10 or 15 years . The program was founded in 1979 for Vietnam vets , vietnam combat vets , and the groups have always been a big part of the identity of a vet center . So PTSD , PTSD focused groups they're just a great resource for veterans to get together and bond over shared experiences and work through things together . So that's a big part of the identity of the program . It's up to the veteran what they would like to do in terms of what type of counseling services they would like to get there .

Larry Zilliox

What are the hours of your vet center ? Are they all the same or do they vary from vet center to vet ?

Ryan Hinely

center they do vary . So the one I work at we are open Monday through Friday 8am to 4.30pm . Other vet centers and I think it largely depends on their staffing cohort often have extended hours . So sometimes I haven't seen ones that are open on the weekend weekends , although that might be the case in some places , but a lot of them will have be open later on a weekday so that veterans that are working can go there after work . And that kind of depends on the staffing cohort of the vet center .

Larry Zilliox

And are there any other services available at the vet center , like help with employment , help with housing , or do you just act as a sort of referral out to the other portions of the VA that will specifically help veterans with those situations ?

Ryan Hinely

So we refer out to other parts of the VA or other community partners for services like that . My vet center . We do have a employment program that outreaches there once a month , for example , and I used to do homeless outreach for a VA homeless outreach rapid rehousing program , so I know that system for the DC area really well . So for me I'll just refer them directly to VA providers to deal with housing and homelessness In-house . It is pretty much just talk different talk therapy modalities . But then every vet center is going to have a strong network of providers and other parts of VA and nonprofits including , for example , willing warriors we could refer out to willing warriors . So that's

Top Concerns and Services for Veterans

Ryan Hinely

how that works .

Larry Zilliox

What are some of the top things or topics that veterans come to you with , especially in the counseling setting . What do you find as some of the most important issues that they want to address or that end group they're addressing ? Is it the PTS , is it the PAC Act ? And trying to get assistance like that , what does that look like ? What are the veterans coming to you with ?

Ryan Hinely

So I would actually say most of the referrals that we get are benefits related . It might be the case that I'm outreaching at a community event and veterans are approaching the table that says vet center and asking for help , or even just folks calling the vet center . It's typically benefits related . How can I start the benefits process ? Can you tell me about the PAC Act ? How does that affect my benefits ? Questions about education benefits , for example . So I'd say like seven out of 10 requests for help are benefits related , not to say that those folks don't also have mental health issues that they might want support with . They don't typically lead with those . They'll often present those later on or after a longer conversation , and then maybe three out of 10 referrals are actually people reaching out for help with mental health issues that they're dealing with .

Larry Zilliox

Right , talk to me about the mobile fan things . That thing is huge . You guys have this mobile home . That is unbelievable and I really like it , because when we're doing the tank farm in August it's 100 degrees out , that things air conditioned . Is that part of the DC vet center or is that shared by a lot of vet centers ? I mean it's a pretty nice mobile facility .

Ryan Hinely

Sure , so that's a really good question . The mobile vet center is a asset that some vet centers have but not all . So there's 300 vet centers , there's 80 plus mobile vet centers . I think the last time I checked it was 87 , but it might be a little bit more now . Typically very urban vet centers like Washington DC , they're not going to have one just because it's a space issue in terms of parking them In this region .

Ryan Hinely

Richmond has one , baltimore has one , roanoke has one . So they're dispersed throughout various vet centers and they are RVs that are set up as a mobile vet center so they can support counseling . They have satellite internet access . So we do bring them to larger community events like the Tank Farm event that you mentioned . Right , great event that's really enjoying working with that program . But yeah , the mission of the Mobile Vet Center essentially is to support , is to extend outreach beyond just the physical location of a vet center . So there are some vet centers that may have a coverage area that's hundreds and hundreds of miles . There are a lot of vet centers in Alaska or Utah , for example , where their cashmere area is like 30 counties essentially . So it might be a two hour drive for some veterans to get to the vet center . So what they'll do with the mobile vet center is they'll staff them with the outreach worker , who's the driver , and then a counselor , and drive out to different areas within their coverage area to work with veterans in those locations .

Larry Zilliox

How do you decide where to go with it ? Is it ? Are you just looking year round for events that you think might be veteran heavy , or do people request that you come out ?

Ryan Hinely

So we do get a lot of requests for them . I think it probably varies by a mobile vet center . From what I've seen , vet centers that have them they typically have a established schedule of places that they outreach at with the mobile vet centers or MVCs .

Larry Zilliox

So every year we're going to do this event , that event , this event every year , sort of a circuit .

Ryan Hinely

Yep and it's not always event focused . They might support if it's a vet center in rural Utah they might support 30 counties , let's say hypothetically , and within those counties there's 15 or so population centers . So they might on a monthly basis , they might drive out on different days to be To state to those Yep , but then they also do get their requests for help from different community partners . So mobile vet centers will also often support disaster relief efforts in different parts of the country . So if there's a wildfire or unfortunately even some of the mass shootings that happen , sometimes they'll deploy the mobile vet center just to assist in relief efforts , for example For counseling .

Larry Zilliox

Yeah Well , it's a great . It's a really great program . It's a beautiful RV . I'm just in favor of trying to bring services to as many veterans as you can . I think whoever came up with that idea is really really great . Where do you see the vet center going in the next three to five years ? Is anything you think going to change , or is there anything you'd like to see change ?

Ryan Hinely

That's a really good question . Yeah , I do know that the leadership is always looking at demographic changes in the veteran community and also they're looking at different areas where where vet centers can support communities . So , for example , fredericksburg , virginia there's a huge veteran population there . They're building a medical center there in the next decade and along with that I think I think there's going to be a vet center there as well . So that's a leadership decision that comes from looking at the data . So I know they're tracking those things and kind of long range looking at like , how can we best support the veteran population ? Where do we need vet centers ? Where do we need to send mobile vet centers ?

Ryan Hinely

Vet centers also have what are called community access points or CAPS , and those are essentially partnership agreements with a location in a community . It could be a library , it could be a community partner , it could even be willing warriors , for example . So what they'll do is they'll just set up a memorandum of agreement with the community partner to use the space once a month , for example , or once a week to do counseling . So they'll send out a counselor to support outreach and counseling in that space . So a lot of vet centers will do that as a means of reaching more veterans .

Larry Zilliox

I wish we'd get a vet center out here . I think that when you're looking at population expansion and types of services , actually let me ask you this the veteran population is changing and our Vietnam veterans are slowly just leaving us . What are you finding the difference between the Vietnam veterans and the Iraq Afghanistan veterans ? Is there much difference in the services that they need ? I know that our Vietnam veterans are an older veteran population , but as far as the counseling aspect of it , is there much difference in the two , or do you have groups that involve both .

Ryan Hinely

We do have groups that involve both and I do want to clarify that I'm not a clinician so I do outreach for the program .

Vet Centers Support Mental Health

Ryan Hinely

Anything I say is not a clinical perspective per se . I would say there are . I mean anecdotally , from my own experience working in the program . I would say there are differences . There are groups that have Vietnam veterans as well as Iraq and Afghanistan veterans . Some of those are generational differences . I mean just speaking personally . I see where a lot of veteran service organizations are struggling with membership retention and some of that is just generational . It seems like younger generations don't join organizations quite as much . The way they participate in organizations is different than older generations . So I think we see that across the board . I would say VA is doing its best to outreach to younger veterans while still serving older populations of veterans .

Ryan Hinely

You know VA , there's a lot of initiatives underway at VA to get more people connected with the VA ecosystem and that actually starts with active duty service . So VA is working pretty closely with DOD to try to streamline the transition from active duty to being a veteran . They're working on that on the healthcare side , on the benefit side and even programs like the Vet Center for example . So we can work with active duty service members and often Vet Centers will outreach on bases , they'll outreach at National Guard Armouries . So there's a big emphasis on linking people to resources as they're transitioning out of active duty service , not just when they're already out , when they're already a veteran , and that's Vet Centers are doing that , but also VA as a whole is attempting to make that transition more to Streamlined and help people to get connected to resources that they need preemptively , before they need them .

Ryan Hinely

So I see a lot of effort in those areas and I think that's really great . It brings to mind something from my own experience when I was , when I was active duty , I was in the Marine Corps infantry , and when I got to the fleet in the Marine Corps we were essentially told you know , you all sent , you know paraphrasing but basically the , the Staff NCO said y'all can see the wizard , but if you do it's gonna hurt your careers . So just keep that in mind and and he was trying , you know he was trying to help the like these junior Marines that he was in charge of . So he was , he was speaking honestly in terms of how behavioral health services were , were seen and viewed At that time in that unit .

Ryan Hinely

Yes so not , you know that's , and he was doing the best he could to help everybody . But culturally , I think you know there's there's a lot of stigma against mental health services in the military , or at least there was at the time . That has changed a lot now and there's a lot of efforts to Get people access to mental health resources when they need them in their active duty . So that's changed a lot . But I just , you know , I remember very vividly being told you all can see the wizard , meaning the , the base behavioral health counselor , but it will hurt you if you do that . So in my own experience what the way that played out is .

Ryan Hinely

I saw a lot of Marines that really needed help . They needed some kind of counseling intervention . What , though ? They were afraid to use any , any resource like that because we were told not to mm-hmm . So I saw a lot of Marines , particularly after deployments to Afghanistan , for example , struggle and you know if medicate , the self-medicaid , you know they often their marriages would fall apart . They'd be drinking . I saw a few Marines start smoking pot just as as a way of coping with , with stress that they weren't able to manage . Sure , and a lot of these Marines were eventually kicked out because you know they would . They would get DUIs , they get in fight like all kinds of things were happening to them that I think could have been avoided if there'd been a behavioral health intervention and Everyone was afraid to to ask for help .

Ryan Hinely

So one thing I often think about is that if I just known about the vets in our program and In 2011 or 2012 I was stationed on campus June there's one in Jacksonville , north Carolina so I I could have actually driven Marines that I serve with to the vets and are in Jacksonville , north Carolina and Sat them down in front of front of a counselor and gotten them help .

Ryan Hinely

And the reason I bring that up is because I know people listening to this might be , might be active duty , they may have family members that are active duty and I and again I think do these doing a great job changing the culture of Access to behavioral health services now . So it's it's different now , but anyone listening to this , if if you or someone in your family's active duty or a veteran and needs a Counseling resource , I strongly encourage you to connect with a vet center . And I say that because Part of what makes them special , let's say , is that they're highly confidential . So beyond just you know any , any healthcare service is going to be confidential and hip and compliant , for example , but vet centers are totally independent , then there's no way that the command is going to find out , yep , that that they were there for counseling exactly , yeah , exactly .

Ryan Hinely

So our clinical database that we use as self-contained , so it's not connected with the systems that medical centers use , for example , and that's intentional . What it means is that if a service member or veteran who may have a clearance often does have a clearance their interaction with the counselor stays within the vet center . The rest of VA doesn't see it , dod doesn't see it . We do have to report it . If there's an imminent threat of harm to someone else or to the veteran , an imminent threat , any clinician needs to report that . But barring that , it does not report out anywhere . So the command is not going to know . It's designed that way . It's intentionally set up . To be siloed is not the right word , but it's intentionally set up to be highly , highly confidential . And they do that so that the service member or veteran that has a clearance , that may be concerned about getting a healthcare service because they don't want it on the record , they can still talk to someone . There's still a resource for them . I do want to mention that because , just thinking back on friends of mine when I was active , I think there could have been an intervention with two or three of them from a vet center . If I'd had that information . I didn't have that information at the time , but it could really save someone's life .

Ryan Hinely

I often do a lot of different community outreach events to focus on my job . Often when I'm at an event , a veteran will approach the outreach table and say the program saved my life , or the Boston Vet Center saved my life seven years ago , and then shake my hand . They don't need anything , they're living their life and they're doing well now . But they just want to say this program saved my life , or this individual vet center or this counselor at this vet center . Not every time , but a lot of the time when I'm out in the community , that kind of interaction will happen . It is a resource and I would just encourage you if you need a resource like that , please reach out .

Ryan Hinely

I should mention our . We have a 24-7 call center . That is probably the best way to get in touch with the program at the national level . It is 24-7 and they'll route you directly to the nearest vet center , to wherever you are . It's a good way to get plugged in . That number is 1-877-927-8387 . Again , that's 1-877-927-8387 . I would just encourage you if you need a resource like this , if you have a service member or veteran in your life that's struggling , that might need a resource like this . Please call the call center and they'll link you to the nearest vet center and get you plugged into that resource ecosystem directly . I think back to people in my own life where , if there had been an intervention , I think the outcome of their life even today , even if they're doing all right now I think it was needless struggle is what it was .

Larry Zilliox

Yeah , as well as I think retention in the military is a huge issue these days and recruiting is down with most branches almost 40% . I think it's in the different services interest to try and deal with these mental health issues as best as they can . But I think of tier one operators these guys who won't report any of this won't seek any help because it immediately takes them out of the game . Having a vet center nearby and being able to go over there and get at least talk to somebody and get some help without their command ever being notified or ever being aware that it was , that they were there , I think is huge for them because so many in that community special operator community are struggling after multiple deployments , after TBIs and PTS . That goes unaddressed and it manifests itself in self-medicating with drugs and alcohol and it affects not only the warrior and the unit and the command but their family , their wife , their kids . Everybody struggles with that . If you're listening out there and that's your situation , look for a vet center and go and talk to somebody , see what they have to offer , participate in group counseling or individual counseling whatever you're comfortable with , but get that help . This is resources out there for you and I think more vets need to take advantage of it . Well , ryan , that's about all the time we have today . I really appreciate you coming out and sitting down with us and really filling everybody in on the vet center .

Larry Zilliox

I think it's one of the least known aspects of the VA and what resources they have to offer . I don't think many people are aware of the extent of the services that the vet centers have to offer . I know when I was in , there was no mention of the VA at all . When I was going to transition out , it was like , okay , this is the military and that's the VA , and see you and you're on your own and if you need something , we'll see if you can find them somewhere . The idea that the VA is working directly with active duty soldiers prior to separation , I think is just phenomenal . Let's get them into that system , get a baseline on them , start providing them with services either benefits or transitioning help or medical health and presumptively just start treating these problems before they get out of hand and out of control .

Appreciation for Great Program

Larry Zilliox

I think it's just a great program . So thank you so much for coming out . I really appreciate it .

Ryan Hinely

Yeah , thank you , Larry . I appreciate this too .

Larry Zilliox

For our listeners . We'll have another episode next Monday , 5 am , for you early risers out there . If you have any questions or any comments , you could reach us at podcast at willingwarriorsorg . Until next time . Thanks for listening .