FL5 VS EK9 - EP.73

In this episode we discuss the various Civic Type R platforms, and compare the FL5 and EK9 specifically and pick our favorites.  Listen along and hit us in the DM with your opinions.

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Transcript

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Welcome back to another episode of the right hand drive guys podcast. The podcast for the guys who like right hand drives. I'm Bobby. This is Aaron. Yeah, we go. And this is episode 73. And today we wanted to just kind of go over the civic type. But not this civic type are behind a sword just the EK nine. We want to go over both of them and kind of go head to head with them. Right. We I personally have always been a Honda boy had to put on my Honda boy pants this morning when I woke up and you know, really take it back. And yeah, I've owned a few EK 9s and I own this FL5 behind us. So I figured we need to pay a little homage to the civics. Right. Let's do it. So I'm just going to start right off and I'm just going to say the 1999 civic type are X is the best civic ever created. Sorry. I just had to just set it right straight so we weren't confused for the whole rest of this. But yeah, I mean, if you don't know much about the civic type are, I mean, it started with the EK nine generation, which was a 97 thing, but that's not where the type are bad. It's self started. Is it? No, no, it started back in what was a 92 with the NSX. Yeah, the NSX R is the first vehicle that displayed the type are bad. Yeah. Which is pretty huge and then shortly after that in 96, the DC2 and DBA, Integra type are both carried the bad. So, you know, the EK nine was definitely not the first, but it definitely holds its place for sure as, you know, one of those cars that just kind of change the route in which that's what we're going to do. It's definitely the most iconic civic type are. Yeah, no, I agree. And it's one that, you know, it kind of came way later than the first civic name. It actually, the EK nine is the sixth generation civic. So it took them six generations of civic, whereas the DC2, that's the second generation. The NSX is the first generation. DC2's third, I think. Is it? I believe so because the DA, well, there's one before the DA too with the pop-up headlights. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah, in the 80s that everyone forgets about that. You're right. Yeah. But I don't know if they consider that a DA or not. I don't know either way. Either way, I'm not a Honda boy. Yeah. So, six generations in, we got the EK nine. And I'm like, super sure most of you guys are familiar with that iconic championship white civic hatchback, right? And so, you know, these came with a B16B engine, which of course, dual overhead cam, VTEC, 1.6 liter. Screamer. Screamer. You know, with that five-speed transmission, right? Yeah. And so these things, like quite early, got a reputation for being little congel racers, for sure. Very, very early stage when these became popular. They were being used, you know, in Osaka on the highways. They were being used, you know, at Fuji on the track as just little rippers. And so, what a lot of people don't necessarily understand is this car isn't just a regular civic with white paint and, you know, this beast series motor. There's quite a bit of, you know, other small changes that contributed to the way to the vehicle, the chassis rigidity, you know, those different, you know, little things that actually do matter at the track. Oh, yeah. And so, do you remember the first time you saw an EK nine? Like maybe not in person, but like, you know, when you are like, wait, civic type, or like, what's the difference between that and the SIR? You know, that, I mean, it was definitely in the video games, obviously back in the day. Yeah. But beyond that, I mean, yeah, I'm not really sure, you know, like, it was a while. It might have even been yours. Yours is the first one I saw. Yeah. In person at least. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, again, if you're not familiar with this, these cars came with the full red interior of the recarrow seats, and they were available only in Japan. So this first model of the Civic Type R is Japan only. No Euro, no USA, just Japan. And they put out 182 horsepower with the B16B. And I mean, that's decent, especially considering that the car is very light. And when you mix that higher horsepower, high revving, you know, these tacked out at 8,900 RPM, like you, you mix those and that's like a lot more than you would think, just the way it feels. So yeah, I mean, these cars were awesome if we want to chat about mine real quick. I had a 99 Civic Type R X. Yeah. That was like, yeah, this was back in 2007. Okay. So, I have a car less than 10 years old. Yeah. Like at my disposal, I mean, I was like, you know, only three years, four years out of high school at this point, right? Yeah. So, I shouldn't have this car, but I had it. And so, what's the RX, right? Like people would be like, you know, most people would just heard of a Civic Type R. And I even at the time when I had purchased this car had only heard of a Civic Type R when he listed this on good old Honda tag as an RX. Like I'm just like, okay, like what is that? You got the prescription for that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what's the deal with it? And then I'm thinking, oh my gosh, dude, like I'm basically thinking like, is this like a 400 R of civics? Like oh my gosh, dude, you know, not at all. It actually just came with a body colored mirrors. It came with a CD player from the factory. It came with a carbon garnish around the CD player. And then of course, you know, the powerful mirrors, power windows, power locks, and the keyless entry as well as the version. It's the nicer version. Yeah. And it's like, it's almost like less sporty, you know, in the sense of creature comfort. Right, where's the regular Type R S crank windows? I think you could get them out of radios. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. The base Type R's crank windows, right, power or manual locks, you know, when you push the thing in it locks them both. So, you know, it was like a, I don't know, yeah, more luxury version compared to the motor sports edition, which came out because these started in '97 and '98, the motor sports edition came out and then '99 the RX was introduced. So they kind of went to more bass and then last bass, right? So the motor sports edition came with steel wheels, gray, EK interior, manual windows, no air conditioner, or any other creature comfort. So that was a fricking race car. Right, it was going to the track. They were going to throw that interior away or whatever. Exactly, they didn't need it. And so, you know, the '97 EK was a, like the first generation, right, of the Civic Type R and then it got a facelift, which was in 1998. So they immediately go to the facelift from '98 to 2000, which just kind of smoothed out some of the rougher edges and, you know, gave the headlights more of a smooth look. So, but, spoon sports actually in '99 put out a limited number of the N1 Type R. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so these are ones that you hardly ever see, right? Like that. I've never seen one. I've never seen one. But these were limited. I don't know exactly how many. But they turned up the rev limiter by all of their, obviously, all their modifications from the '89, 100 to 11,000. Can you just imagine, dude, that chaos when you were at 11,000 RPMs in first gear, dude? Oh, my lord. Like, I cannot imagine. Dude, yeah. I actually had a buddy back in the day. He was building an EK. And he didn't do much building, but he did a lot of parts collecting. One of the things that he had was a brand new inbox spoon cluster. Oh, hell yeah. And that was the thing that always stuck out to me about it. Is it went to 11K and I'm just like, wow, that's insane. And this thing was brand new, zero miles, you know, had like the green needles and all that. I was like, that's really cool. And then he told me the price tag of it. And I was just like, yeah, those, those will go for ridiculous. A month, a thousand right now. Still thinking about that to this day if he still had that collection. Oh, dude. If he does that thing, yeah, he could probably get a down payment for a house. So yeah, the only car I've ever been in that did 11K was a mugen bill built by mugen in Tiger Type R. Yeah. And dude, yeah. And that's why I say it's chaos, dude. The riding shotgun in a mugen in Tiger Type R at 11,000 RPM, dude, is what got me into all this. It made me be like, wow, like these things have such a raw potential naturally aspirated that like, I like this. Yeah. You know, never got to that myself, but so cool. So I did get rid of my 99 Civic Type R X after I was able to get it into import tuner, which if you're watching on YouTube, you can see right in front of us and also S3 magazine in the same month. And then I got foolish and decided to sell it, right? Not even considering what I was selling it for back in like 2009 is peanuts compared to what they go for now, especially in that condition. But then I missed it, right? The guy wasn't willing to sell it back to me yet. Bummer found another one. I was living in Tennessee at the time, right down in Arkansas. There was a guy with an all stock, completely stock 97 Civic Type R. Wow. And I purchased it off him for what today is absolutely peanuts. And, you know, and then I built that one, ended up selling it to a guy that still has it that I know down in mass. So, you know, I had a few, I really loved them. Just for sure a car that I will own again, as you know, I'm always kind of in the search for that right EK9, you know? But yeah, I mean, so you could say, you know, some people would say that the Civic Type R stopped there. Yeah. Right? They would say it stopped. For a lot of people it did. It did. You know, in 2000, which was the last and final model of the EK9 generation, right? So this is, this episode is EK9 versus FL5, but we're going to kind of just run through these other Type R's to kind of show some correlation to why maybe they weren't in EK9. So to speak right? So next comes the EP3. So shout out Tiger, love Tiger. Yeah. Tiger, please don't take offense to anything I may say. But this EP3 Type R has to come directly after an EK9 Type R, right? And they choose to fill big shoes to fill. And I personally, in my opinion, don't think they understood that. Like I don't think they knew what they had gotten themselves into by releasing the EK9, right? So you get the EP3 from all one, no five. Okay. And it's a whole different car. They debut the K20A in this car, right? And they debut their rally shift technology, right? If anybody's ever seen it, you know it's like on the dash type thing. Yeah, I think those civics and CRVs are the only cars I've ever seen with that. Yes. And so this ends up putting out about 200 horsepower, right? So an uptick from the EK9, but also weighs quite a bit more at 2600 pounds compared to the 2300 pounds, 2100 pounds, depending on what model you got of the Type R. So are of the EK9. So the big thing about this car, right? The EK9 was assembled in Suzuka, in Japan, just as you would expect, right? You get down to this EP3 and it was assembled where? Where? Where do you say? The UK. The UK. The UK. The UK. Leave it to the UK to put out this friggin' thing, dude. And so it's like, it's not my favorite. I feel like that European influence came through maybe a little too heavy for like a strong Japanese brand. And you know, like I said, so they give us this till '05. All right, so what's next? Okay. In '07, they dropped the FD2. And now the FD2, I would consider one of the best Type R's, you know, along with the EK9. I don't think it has that same kind of, I don't know what you want to call it as the EK9, but it's definitely, it's one of those iconic Type R's, right? So this, like, so basically this is out around the same time as the DC5 and Tiger Type R is going out, right? So they introduced this. And this is also assembled in Japan. Yeah. Do you notice a trend here? Right? And these also had that K20. Right. And now they've upped it to 222 horsepower with the 6-speed manual. So we're like getting there, right? However, again, that weight keeps going up at 2800 pounds. So you know, we're, we're straying away from that original Type R, K9, like that chassis rigidity, chassis, lightweight chassis, that type of thing. Right. And we're adding these pounds. We're gaining a little horsepower, but we're getting away from that like true thoroughbred race machine. Right. Right. Well, and also with this chassis, they had regular civics with the same chassis, you know what I mean? Yeah. Whereas like the EP, that was its only thing, right? Right. In Japan. Correct. And then, you know, also with the newer cars, the newer emissions and newer safety regulations, I feel like that definitely plays a huge role in things like weight and just things like that. I mean, if you look at a dash on the FD2 and look at the EK9, like that dash is huge. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, there is right. If you look at the shape of the car itself, it's just like, holy cow. It's like changing with the times, right? Right. And as we know, EK9 hatchback FD2 Fordor. Right. You know, so Fordors are heavy. And so some things that Honda started with the FD2, they started removing things like the Rekaro seats, now they're Honda seats with the Momo steering wheel now. It's a Honda steering wheel. So, you know, they did start removing some of maybe those more like branded items, you know, but I still think they did a great job overall with this car. Yeah. Of course, they put out 300 units of the Mugen RR in Milano Red only, which is a dope looking car. Like the Mugen RR is a sick looking car. Sure. Cool. And so this had, you know, an extra 30 horsepower than this standard. And of course, it came with the Mugen wheels and the Mugen cam shafts. And, you know, these different parts that really set it apart from the Type R. I mean, I would love to see one of those over in Japan or something. Yeah. You know, they're super cool. So, after the FD2 comes the FN2, okay, and this was only available Europe and other select international markets. Yeah, this one. Yeah. And this was basically the FD2 of the European and other international markets, right? And this one, of course, produced in the UK. Yeah, you can definitely tell. You can tell. And it's got a K20 Z4 with 190 horsepower. And it's weighing in at a ridiculously high 2900 pounds for what it is, dude. I don't know if they got bricks in the trunk or what, but, you know, this thing, I don't know. Yeah, it's done in interest. It's, we're going to keep going. And, you know, in 2015, the ninth generation Civic, it's like, it's the fourth generation Type R, but it's the ninth generation Civic. And I don't, I don't know. Again, I don't know where they were going with this. It's another UK produced vehicle. And it's like a weird mix of this FN2 that we were talking about in the FKA. Right. It's like this weird in between. It really is. It has like the rear end of the FN2 and kind of a front end. It's, I don't know. But so this one, though, okay, was the first with the K20 C1, which the K20 C1 is the first ever turbocharged K series motor that is going in these cars. Was this one still in A or was this one turbo? This one's turbo. Oh, okay. And so this was probably when this popped off in 2015, it probably was hot. Because of the fact that they finally put that turbo motor in there, upping it from the measly 200 horsepower numbers up to 306 horsepower. Up to 306 from, you know, let's just say the FD2 at 222. 360, this thing is like, it's a good jump. Yeah. But again, that weight just keeps climbing up to 3000 pounds. So almost 3100. So the FK2 kind of really like, I feel like even though it's not popular, it for sure tipped the scales of where this was going. This I feel like is the turning point, the FK2. And so after that, you know, and I remember this, you know, when this, you know, came out in the US was the fifth generation type R in the 10th generation Civic, which is the FK8. And this was, this was our chance to finally get the type R. Oh, yeah. Finally a global type R. Right. Right. I'm not so like lower model. It's it. It's it. The FK8 came out swinging, although it was again produced in the UK and I feel like you can tell again. Yeah. Yeah. It's like overdone. You know, the ex-series overdone they could usually tell with the lights. Yeah. The way that they do it. There's something about the headlights and the tail lights. You know, it's been the same like since the Euro Accord are. You're right. It has a certain look to the tail lights and headlights. I don't know if it's the colors or the like the type of reflectors or something they use, but it looks like you can definitely tell. And so this is a 2017 to 2021 model year, right? So now we're really, really starting to get into electronics and driver control and these different items that really put us, there's a fork in the road between performance and technology with these cars. And I feel like with the FK8 they really started integrating some of that technology with it. You know. And so the FK8 pumps out 316 horsepower still at that 3100 pound mark, you know, with a few extra ponies. But this model they really went hard on the interior with, you know, the, geez, the interior lighting, you know, now all of these different things, the big screen, all of these kind of like new age electronics are coming into the car. Right. Like the car play and all the lights. Right. Everything like that. The data logging for that's built in all of that stuff starts coming out. And so this car took a lot of heat for these items for the fact that, you know, it did have such a large screen in it. And the rawness of like a, you know, track car was kind of like smoothed out with some of these different components. That was kind of a big thing because of course with, you know, like these type of cars, there's always that following that is always going to be hyper critical. Right. But yeah, I mean, we got it in June of 2017 and they definitely sold fast and they, they, the MSRP over MSRP went up and up and up and you couldn't get these things. And I mean, I personally am not like a huge fan of the FK, but I think it was a necessary car to get us to where we are today. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was the first American type of R like I said. But yeah, I don't know. I think anything that they made in Europe should have just kept that. They did it. Whoever, whoever switched that up in the end, it was like, yeah, we'll let the Europeans use the type of our name. Whoever made that choice, I don't know if it was the best, but hey, we are where we are and we got the type of R. So. And so then that brings us to the sixth generation. The one that we have right behind us, which was introduced in July of 2022, officially the FL 5 and finally, finally, we are back in Japan and Saitama and they are producing it there and it shows for sure. I mean, in my opinion, like some guys may hate it, but I love this way better than the FK 8. And the FK 8 actually came with 20 inch wheels on it. Did you know that? Yeah, that's kind of. Yeah. And this comes factory with 19s, which is I think a lot more manageable, you know, for what it is. It is big. It is big. Yeah. Which means it's getting your tire, you know, which, yeah. But so the model year was 2023 and then of course, the FL 5 is still being produced and the power I'll put jumped up to 325 horsepower. Yes. But the weight jumped up to 3200 pounds. So this is a heavy hope back here, like realistically, you know, compared to this is 1,000 pounds heavier than an EK9. Yeah. 1,000 pounds. But all the technology. Yeah. I mean, we'll get into that. Don't you worry. Yeah, I mean, this thing is, I don't know, these things are fast, right? Like, we'll get into it a little bit more. But this holds the Suzuki Lapper record for front wheel drive cars. This holds a Nürburgring record for front wheel drive cars. This car hauls stock, you know, and that's not even discussing just a few modifications, right? And so, I mean, yeah, this is, it's kind of one of those things, right? The way that now manufacturers are really like sharing chassis and all these different things. This is pretty much the same thing as an accurate and Tiger type S or the DE5. The parts are pretty much interchangeable, different body, you know, and they do their whole thing. But what they did premiere with this was the triple exhaust. Yeah. Yeah, so, yeah, I don't know. That's probably the one thing I don't love, right? Is the like three exhaust tips coming out of the back? Yeah, the center exit. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's cool. I guess if you got to have three tips, they should all be in the middle, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Otherwise, that would be really weird if they spread them out. But so, okay, so we give you the rundown, right? Like from EK9, first gen to 6 gen FL5, sorry, a Civic Type R. So from here, what we all want to know, right, is which one is the best? Which like, like FL5 versus EK9, boom, just like this, right? Let's break it down real quick and let's figure out which one we each consider to be the best. So, I've been talking a lot. I'm going to let you go first about the things that you like how you feel, right? Right, right, right. So the EK9 is obviously the OG. Yep. It's way more, I guess you could say raw. And better. Yeah. But yes, you're right. I would agree. It's way more raw. You know, it's got the Rekaro C switch. That's super cool. Yeah, I just think the driving experience with it would be, I don't know, I guess like I said, a little more raw. Whereas like the newer one would also be fun, but in a different way. You know, you have all these different, like stability control, ABS and all that. You could really hammer on it and try to get into trouble and never really lose traction, I guess you could say. Or get to real trouble, which is engine failure, right? Like, yeah, exactly. There's more fail safes in the sense of keeping you out of the real trouble. And plus it's got obviously more power. So that's always cool. And it makes turbo noises. Quite a bit more power, right? Because the five speed manual with the B16B on the made 182. And here we're talking about 325. Right, right. I mean, it's one of those things. You know, if you, if you have a EK9 and all your buddies have EK9s, that's probably the cool thing. But dude, as soon as you get out with one of these things and, you know, you're just in a stock EK9, you're going to get left. No, yeah. Stock for stock. Stock for stock, you know what I mean? So it's just tough. You know, if I was looking for a car I could beat around the track, beat around on the street, have fun with daily drive. Conjo raised that thing all day. I'd take the new type bar. Okay. So he's a, he's his voters for the FL5 just because they all around this of it. And I don't know. The color blue is really cool. Yeah. I mean, you're right. Like the, like when we're talking EK9, it's like yellow, white, black, silver. Like that's pretty much it. These breads and, you know, all these different blue. Is that it? No, there's gray. There's, um, surprise he didn't do a yellow or do they say that for the Integra? I don't know. You get to go question. We're going to have to find out or no, they did that with the, the previous model, the FK8. Oh, yes, you're right. They had the yellow. It was probably the little seller. It was a limited thing. So okay. So here's my, my take on it, right? Yeah, let's hear it. You had both. Yeah, I have had both. I put plenty of miles on both. I obviously love the EK9, like so much. I love the EK9. And so because that's where I started, right? And so in my opinion, right, like this car's classic, I can't mentally replace this car. This car was built for exactly what it was supposed to be built for. It was not built to make you feel comfortable. It was not built to entertain you. It was not built to be this shiny thing. You know, this was built to just hammer VTEC on the track, right? This car was very purpose built. Okay. And so then when we talk about the car behind us, the car behind us is a shiny thing. Okay. In my opinion, it's a shiny thing. Okay. It is purpose built for the consumer. It is not purpose built for the passion. And that's like my problem with the FK, sorry, well, the FL5 is that it was built for the consumer in mind, which I understand. That's the market today. That's what you have to do and you have to keep up. This is, this is sure a car that performs well in the track because of what they put in it for a motor. But this is not a car outfitted for the track when it comes to the body, the chassis, all of these other items, right? They didn't necessarily save weight. You know what I mean? This isn't stripped down. This isn't like, this isn't a race car in my opinion. And so when you go back to like the Type R badge in like 1992 and 96 and then of course the Civic in 97, I feel that with the new Type R's that like passion, that soul of the Type R has been lost a little bit. And that's just my opinion. What I do love about the FL5 is I've never had a car that you get stuck and it's impressive. You know, like it's, this isn't a stock, it's an impressive car. And just a tune like so for this you have to send away the ECU, it's jail broken by Honda data and then you get the Honda data to right. The difference between a stock FL5 and an FL5 with a Honda data tune, just a regular exhaust tune. Just one bolt on exhaust that tune. Dude blew my mind. Like I've had quite a few cars, most of them tuned all that. This one went from like me to oh shit. Like you know hold on like like dude dash hop in first and second gear. It's like just wanting to rip and so you know if in my opinion I will always consider the EK9 because it's the first generation and because I believe it was a true like motor sport car, I will never be able to say that I think that the FD2 or the FL5 or whatever is better because I feel like this is like you said that raw beginning where and it's just like anything if you think of in the world when it begins it's the most purest, the most raw it's the least influenced. You know what I mean in now we're six generations in and we're influenced right and it's changed. And you know so so me I'm an EK9 guy all day because of that like purity. However I do see the necessity within the FL5 because we did want this forever. We wanted this through all these generations. We finally got it. Is it what we originally wanted? No it's not but it can't be right. It can't be and so I do understand that part of it like it can't be an EK9. It is an FL5 and so I do appreciate it for what it is. And I do think it has potential and I think it absolutely looks 10 times better than the FK8. You know what I mean so and I'm not trying to hurt no feelings. I mean it's the best looking Civic since the FD2 or the FK8. Right. Yes I agree. So I think that there's room for at least the EK9 and FL5. And I think that Honda did a good job with what they can. Because the market is not calling for this anymore either and I do understand that. Let's just say if they put out the FL5 equivalent of an EK9 it wouldn't have sold. Yeah it wouldn't have sold. Well I mean it would have but it would have been way harder. Yeah it wouldn't have been. Like it's not it would be like a normal consumer car. Right. And that's what that's my whole point. That's what they created for this is that like this is for that guy that maybe was not desperately in love with the EK9 or the type our name. Right. A guy that just likes good looking fast, efficient vehicles. This applies to him. Yeah. He doesn't even got to give a shit about the type of Ravage. Right. You know so I do appreciate Honda giving us this. You know I do think that we needed this over the FK8 because the FK8 did not get my attention at all. Right. It was cool. It was a type bar in that turbo. So cool they're giving us this and it has a dope motor. But otherwise like it was never on my radar. Once this came out I had one within six months. Like that became on my radar because I'm like wow like they figured it out. Yeah. So yeah shout out Honda. Shout out the type ours. We just wanted to get into the Honda's right. That's like really really really where I started and we're obviously now super heavy on the Nissan's and we needed to make sure that we're showing love to these other manufacturers that have really contributed to what we love. Right. And yeah I mean the EK9's the best type bar and that's just what it is. But yeah we appreciate you guys listening for sure. If we miss anything, if we said anything that was stupid hit us up in the DM's we'd be glad to hear it 100% and don't forget to actually follow us on the socials at RHD G U I S and we do have some FL5 merch if you want to check it out at RHD G U I S dot com. But for the type R episode of the right hand drive guys podcast I'm Bobby. This is Aaron. See ya. Peace.[BLANK_AUDIO]