🎪 Episode 93: Tinder, True Crime & Netflix's Should I Marry a Murderer?

Ever wondered how well you really know someone from a dating app?

This week, Stefanie and Meredith dive into Netflix's Should I Marry a Murderer?, a jaw-dropping true crime documentary that starts with a whirlwind Tinder romance and quickly spirals into secrets, lies, and one unbelievable confession.

We break down the shocking case, discuss the red flags we would've missed (and the ones we definitely wouldn't), debate what we'd do in Caroline's impossible situation, and question just how much you really need to know about someone's past before saying "I do."

Along the way, we also go off on our tangents, including dating app disasters, loyalty, bad decisions, and why maybe a background check should come before an engagement ring.

If you love:
 🎬 Netflix documentary reviews
 🔎 True crime discussions
 💕 Dating stories & relationship red flags
 🚩 Internet rabbit holes
 😂 Unfiltered conversations between best friends
 🎪 A healthy dose of sarcasm and chaos

...welcome to This Is My Circus.

🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're loving the chaos, we'd be so grateful if you'd leave us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review—it helps more people find the circus! 

Transcript

0:00

I'm Stephanie. I'm Meredith. And welcome to This Is My Circus. Yeah, mini ep. Mini ep. Well, documentary ep. Yes. I do like this flow though. I do too, every other week. Like a, yeah, with a little break up- Mm-hmm of a good doc, hopefully. A good doc. Yeah, yeah. I liked this one. Did you? Yes, but I was getting ready to go out On a date. Uh, oh. From a dating app. Oh. Well, I started watching this while I was getting ready. Well, hopefully your date did not mirror any of the situations in this. No, but I was like, "Meredith, what are you doing to me?" Not intentional. Not intentional. So, um, we're gonna talk about Should I Marry a Murderer? Yes. This was on Netflix. Do you remember the movie So I Married an Axe Murderer? Mm-hmm. It keeps popping in my head, but this was not that. Mm-hmm. One thing is not like the other. So, let's talk about it. All right, and this is full of spoilers today. Yeah, all of them. Um, and, and we're gonna be giving lots of opinions. Yes. Okay. You wanna give us, like, an overview or- Sure Imagine meeting a 6'4"... See, he doesn't- He doesn't lie about his height. That we know of. Um, all right. Sorry. Let's start that over. Imagine meeting a 6'4" Scottish Highlander on Tinder. He lives on a beautiful farm, works outdoors, loves animals. Well, technically he kills them for a living, but he seems rugged, romantic, and completely obsessed with you. Within two months you're engaged. Weird. And then you ask him one innocent little premarital question, "Is there anything from your past that I need to know before we get married?" Most people would expect answers like, "I have terrible credit." Mm-hmm. "I cheated on my girlfriend in college." Mm-hmm. "I secretly hate your mother." This man says, "Well, I did kill somebody, hide the body, and get away with it." Oh, my gosh. Sir. Right. That was not the kind of baggage she was asking about. So although they're saying, Should I marry a murderer?" Just for legal purposes, ChatGPT told me we should say this so we- Okay don't get in trouble. Okay. Um, he ultimately pleaded guilty to culpable homicide, not murder. Okay. Do we have to say that every time or does that cover us? No, that covers us. Okay. 'Cause it, if they said, "Should I marry a man convicted of culpable homicide?" Doesn't quite have the same Netflix- No, it just doesn't. It just doesn't roll off the tongue. Flow. Yeah. Okay, so we meet Caroline Muirhead, I think is how you pronounce it, but I'm really bad with that. All the... Yeah, they have Scottish names, so- Right, right don't come for us. Right. So, she lived and worked in Glasgow. She is a forensic pathologist. Mm-hmm. She's a doctor. Mm-hmm. Smart lady, she knows her stuff. She's very quirky. Mm-hmm. I really liked her. Yeah. I mean, I had some moments, you know, with her or whatever, but I just liked that she was like, "I'm just living my life." Well, and she was, not hiding, Oh, right she d- not trying to make herself look better. She was not. She just laid it out there. She sure did. Then we meet Sandy McKeller. Um, The bad guy. We meet the bad guy, Sandy McKeller, and yeah, he lives in the Scottish Highlands near the Brig o... Oh my gosh, for me to want to do a podcast, maybe I need to do, like, voice lessons. I don't even think it's that. La, la, la, la. I think it's more, it's, other words that we're not used to. I think so. These are really, really weird words. Okay, so we meet Sandy. He lives in the Highlands near the Brig- no, b- Bridge of Orchy, which that still sounds wrong. Did I just say "still" right? Now I'm doubting everything that I say. Okay, so we meet Sandy. Mm-hmm. He's the bad guy. I can't make the words come out correctly Okay Sandy's the bad guy Sandy is the bad guy. So they meet on Tinder, like you said, and it just moves really fast. Mm-hmm. Just do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And like red flag. Right. Uh, two months, red flag. Yeah. But she's loving it. She's like, "I'm in the Highlands," and we're just walking and hiking, and I'm already tired just reading this, watching the thing. And She's, she's frolicking. She's frolicking, and she's just like I said, she's kind of quirky. Like they're in the car ride and he's like, "You drive." And she's like, "Ah," and she's like singing and just very, yeah, she's just being herself. And he loved it. Yeah. I mean, he, he was doing his thing. Yeah. He was loving it. We think, we guess- We, I assume right. He's feeling the relationship. They're moving along and then, yeah, they have this conversation. Do you want, to introduce all the characters first? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Do you have a, a- I, I do a playlist? Yeah. We already introduced Caroline, Sandy. Then we have Robert McKellar, Sandy's identical twin brother, coworker, drinking companion, and partner in b- literally crime. Yep. Yep. Because apparently one evil twin was not enough for this story. Right. When she said they were twins at first I was like, come on. Like, this is like really lining up to be a story. Like you think brothers, but twins? Well, then I was thinking maybe the twin did it- Mm-hmm and he was just gonna pin it on- Mm-hmm no. Nope. Nope. Nope. We also have, do we wanna talk about Tony Parson? Yes. Go ahead. So he is actually the victim in the story. He is the one who they buried his body. He was a charity cyclist, husband and father. He, had survived prostate cancer. Good dude, and he's doing this bicycle ride, so that's about Tony, so let's not forget him. He was the main, victim here. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it was three episodes long. Correct. Okay. So episode one, Tinder has officially gone too far. Yeah. Yep okay, so episode one begins with Caroline explaining that she had recently come out of a difficult nine-year relationship. She felt lonely, vulnerable, and ready to find someone who accepted her rather than trying to change her, so she joins Tinder. Mm-hmm. Tinder says, um, "Have we got a highland farmer for you." Absolutely no background checks whatsoever. Oh my gosh. And then she goes to his farm. That... Okay, at first, I was like, "Whoa. Wait a minute." Yeah "You're going to his place." And then my second thought was, she's like, "It was quite a bit away. It was an hour and a half." And I'm like, that's really not that far. Yeah. I mean, that's technically still in South Carolina for us. But east. But I guess... But you still, you still for dinner. Yes, yes. Not to his 20,000 acre farm where he's literally already got a body buried, yeah Anything could happen. Yeah, so again, relationship just on fast-forward. They're just going super fast. It just, blows my mind of the sequence of events. Mm-hmm. Of how, like you said, how fast it went, and her friends are like, "What are you doing?" Mm-hmm. And she's like, "No, I'm in love. Ah." Yeah, yeah. You can see the little hearts floating above her head and, and all that. Heart eyeballs. Yes, yes. So they're, they're engaged. Mm-hmm. And her friends are like, "Oh, congratulations." Mm. And her family seems to like- Mm-hmm you know, they, they've got pictures and stuff of them up, when we see their house later. But that's when she's like, "Hey, you have any, anything you wanna tell me, you know?" Mm. That, like you said, are we gonna hear about, you know, bad credit or- that, I slept with my cousin's wife or something like that. Nope. We, he flat out says that he murdered somebody. Yeah. I can't remember the exact words, so we might have to take that out. Well,, we'll get there- I think, eventually. Eventually. But, uh-huh. Um, okay, so the date goes well. Yep. Caroline feels immediate connection with him because she, works with bodies and forensics. And he works with dead animals. Yeah. So they've got that in common. They work with dead things. Yes. I guess. Yeah. I mean, whatever. And I think at one point he was like, this is great. I can never talk about-" Yeah "my work with people because they just don't get it." Mm-hmm. And she wasn't grossed out by it. Right. So he was like, "Heck yeah." Right. I can be gross- Yeah. and she is into it. They did have that in common, yep. I mean, to each their own. Like, that doesn't- Right affect you. Right. Have at it. So they have their date. Mm-hmm. They start to find out their similarities. They have things in common, like being outside and doing the highlander stuff, whatever that might be. Yeah. Just hiking and, Frolicking frolicking. It shows them, like, riding through rivers in, four-wheeler drive situations. Yeah. I don't know how that is worded. Yeah, that looks like fun. Sure. For, like, a day. Yeah. Yeah Only if I can drive, though. You don't wanna drive? I would get stuck. Oh, yeah. That's part of the fun, though, they say. That's what they say. I would freak out. I would, like, over-correct, I think, and then, get us, flipped over. Yeah. I probably would not do really well at that either, but, I don't wanna just sit around and ride all day and, I don't know. Okay, so- caroline is, loving and affectionate- Mm-hmm and Sandy is missing that as a rough Highlander man who kills things for a living. so Caroline, says that alcohol sometimes brings out a darker, more aggressive side in him, though. Yeah. And at one party, Robert pulls Caroline aside and warns her, Robert's the brother, pulls her aside and warns her that his own twin brother is not right in the head. Yeah. So she gets that warning, and she's like, "What are you talking about? He's fabulous." Right, right. Talking about rose-colored glasses. He's lovely. Yeah. Who cares if he's a murderer? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, she doesn't know that yet. In the moment she was just like, "Well, how bad could he be?" Right. "What are you talking about?" Right. But hindsight she's like, "Yeah, definitely should've listened." Yeah. I thought that was really weird that his brother just pointed that out. Yeah. And without any context too. Mm-hmm. Like, it wasn't like- Mm-hmm hey, he did this or- It's like this podcast. Yeah. Zero context. Hey, we make it work. Anybody that knows us that listens understands. They're 100% The people that know us in real life that are listening 100% fall in this- Yeah conversation because they, this is what they get on the daily. If we spoke normal, they'd be like this is not them. Their, their bodies have been- This is AI taken over. Yeah. Um. Okay. So when the evil twin is warning you about the o- The other evil twin like there's no good twin. There's not a good twin. There's not a bad cop, good cop we got- Well, this twin's a little bit better 'cause he's trying to warn her away. So, we have gone beyond the red flags. Yes. Like now we're like- Yeah I don't even know. What past red flag? I don't know. This is like one of those big caution roadblocks. I guess. Or like the, a pirate flags with the- Mm-hmm skull and crossbones flag. Yeah, maybe. Caroline's deeply in love, believes Sandy is the person with who she will finally create the family and future that she's always dreamed of. After they've been dating for only two months, Sandy proposes, Caroline says yes, and this is why every dating app needs a new feature. Before you can change your relationship status to engaged, both parties must complete a criminal background check. Yeah. Definitely. That should be required. Yeah, criminal, especially for like I don't care if you've like been driving on a boat when you're drunk. Yeah. Like as long as you didn't hit anybody, but I need to know the other things. Are we talking felonies- Felonies or we talking like misdemeanor? Felonies. Did you have to go to court for this? I had to go to court for misdemeanor. What misdemeanor? Fighting in college. At a bar Did you get out of it? I had to pay a fine and- Okay but I had to go to court. I couldn't just, pay the fine online- Yeah or whatever. I had to fly from Tennessee back to Pennsylvania. Did you beat the case? Um- Obviously, no, 'cause you had to- No, I had to pay my fine pay the fine so anywho, um, yes, I do believe that that all should be disclosed, when you get down on your knee, you also have your criminal record. In one hand is the ring, and the other one is the printout from, Verified- Yeah or whatever website you use. Mm-hmm. Yeah. that's very good advice. Yes. Uh- Agreed. All you ladies, all you ladies out there, before you say yes. All right episode two? Okay. So episode two is where Caroline starts, what do I do with all of this information that's just been given to me? She's like, "Okay, so what do I do?" So she starts having this internal debate, and she secretly contacts the police. Yeah. Would you do that? I like to think that I would. I think that I would contact the police. The rest of what she does, I don't know how I would manage that- Yeah with her basically living a double life- Yeah being an informant. I don't get paid enough for that. No. What would you do? I don't really know. If I was so in love like she said- Yeah I probably would have just been like, "Okay, well- Yeah don't do it again." Yeah. Oh, well. I probably I, like this is how awful I am. It's hard to say. If that was my ride or die and I really felt like- Yeah like that was my person- Yeah I would've just been like, "Let's not do that again." Mm-hmm. Well, live and learn. Yeah. And just move on. Yeah. Let's go do some, good work in the world and... Because in my head I would've been like, "Well, the way he explains it is an accident." Mm-hmm. It wasn't like he went and, gun somebody down done somebody down. Right. Like, stabbed somebody, whatever. Right. So I probably would've been like, "Well, it was years ago, and let's not... Can we still get married?" Yeah. With my heart eyes. Yeah. Keeping those rose clo- colored glasses on. It's bad when you take those off. Right. Believe me. Right. You know? It, it can be very brutal and fuzzy. Yes. They turn into frogs. Yep. So they have a conversation about what actually happened. Yes. Um, so what ha- happened was, Bring it back to South Carolina. Yeah. so Sandy and his brother, Robert, are coming home from, they're coming from a bar, right? Mm-hmm. And they're both drunk. Mm-hmm. And Sandy is driving, and they hit something. Mm-hmm. Um, they get out of the car, and it's somebody on a bicycle. And, they're, like, checking him out, checking for a pulse, all of that. There's still a pulse. Do we know that at this point? Mm-hmm. Well, not while he's telling her, but we find out- We find out later in that episode that he's still alive. Right. So as he's explaining it to her, though, they get out of the car, they check for a pulse or whatever, and- He's dead he's dead, and they bury him on their property. Mm-hmm. Basically is what happens. But as the story progresses, and as this episode progresses, you find out the true story. Yes. Which is, he was not dead. He was not dead. They left to go drop their SIM cards off at their house- Mm-hmm so it wasn't traced back to them. Mm-hmm. And came back Which just adds another touch of evil it to me. Yeah. 100%. I mean, it was calculated. Yeah. I mean, not that calculated to hit the guy, but it was calculated- But af- what to do everything they did from there on out was. Yeah. Which was crazy. Okay. W- Now, I watch a lot of true crime. Right. And I don't know if I would've in that moment, like Well, it really makes me wonder, the way that they handled this, first of all just the, so cold about it. Mm-hmm. And the way that they had a plan. It really makes me wonder, what else had they done? I don't feel like your first crime is this well done. They kill animals, every day. You know? Yeah. I think you lose when- Yeah you lose part of that, like, shock factor, maybe. Uh, yeah. I mean, I agree, but I just feel like it was so calculated after that. Do you think that they really hit him or do you think that there was like something like more nefarious that we never find out? You know, I didn't even think about that. But- I mean, I believed the hit him story. What did you think? I don't know. Now that we're talking about it and they were so cold and it was so- Mm-hmm calculated. Mm-hmm. And they had this plan so quickly. Did something else happen? Mm-hmm. And they're just- Think- Did they come across him? Did they beat him up? Right did they whatever? Yeah. How evil are they? Mm-hmm. But we'll never know. We'll never know. So, for what we know from the documentary, it was a hit and run or hit, and they dropped off their SIM card and left. Yeah. Be right back. Yeah. so they ended up, eventually burying the body in a shallow pit used for animal remains- Mm-hmm on the property. Mm-hmm. Now, this property's like 28,000 acres- Yes, yes or something crazy like that. Yes. And then they concealed or disposed of the evidence, within that area. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, they also got rid of the bike, he says by a waterfall, but there's like 10 waterfalls on the property or- Yeah something crazy like that. Yeah. Which, time out, I wish I had 10 waterfalls on my property. Same. I mean, I really wouldn't wanna walk to them every day, but just knowing they're there. If you have the option. Yes. Yeah. I would too. Can you imagine? That would be so pretty. Oh my gosh. Mm. Okay. So yeah, says he's disposes of it in the river at the waterfall got rid of everything, buried him, and they just went on about their lives. Yep. Now the whole town has been searching for this man. Yep. Cancer survivor- Yep dad, grandfather, the whole nine yards, like this sweet old man. Yep. And they're just like, "Yep, didn't see nothing, my SIM card was at home." So, and just for perspective, September 2017 is when they hit him riding the bike, and he died, and they buried him. That's when all that happened. This is in 2020, September 2020. So there's been a few years where there's just been, you know, no answers. People have been looking for him. I'm sure investigations everywhere. So if you were Sandy, would you have even told her this? Like, why would you even tell her? I don't think I would. I don't think so either. I think that's just one of your take it to the grave things. Yeah. Like, he really must have been feeling her. If I were him, I wouldn't have told her. I wouldn't have either, but it made me think, like, did he choose her- Because she's a pathol- because she's that? Because we come to a point where he's like, we need to get rid of the body." Yeah. Whatever's still there we need to get rid of. So in the meantime, though, they're still partying. And- Right and she's a doctor, right? So I- Yes picture her as, like, the snorting coke- Right like, getting down- Right partier, and this is what she has turned into in these, short two months. She has. She has been through it. So partying hard, doing all the drugs, and again, she's not hiding this. No. We actually have recordings of her later, and you can hear. She s- like, "This is me snorting coke." Yeah. You can hear it. But yeah, she's just throwing it out there, "This is what I did and this is what we did," they're just- Yeah going at it. Mm-hmm. Which, her life it's amazing such a short window- Right can just boomerang your entire life. Everything. I feel like she made mistakes at work, didn't she? Mm-hmm. And they were calling her out on those, which you're a doctor and her- Doing drugs all the time- Right and going back to work. It doesn't work- No that way. So yeah. So she contacts the police and, they're like, "Hey, you wanna just be undercover for us, basically?" Yeah. "Get details." Well, they're basically like, "We can't do anything. We can't, have no evidence, we have no probable cause o- other than your word." Mm-hmm. we need an exact location because it's too much for us to dig up the entire property. Again, 28,000 acres. And, if you get us this information, we can act on it. Mm-hmm. But in the meantime, she's now freaking out because now she went to the cops, and is he gonna find out she went to the cops? Mm-hmm. And how does she get this exact location, and like, all the things. Mm-hmm. So she's trying to- While she's on drugs. Yeah. And that makes you paranoid anyway. Yeah. And makes you think all sorts of upside down. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I don't envy the position she's in. And like I said, I probably would've just been like, "Please don't kill me." That's a bad, bad thing. Let's- Let's do that. Let's stick to animal killing. Oh, mm-hmm. Not humans. Yeah. Heart eyes. No, let's go pig toasty. We're gonna get married on this beautiful property-, but yeah, so she starts working to whittle this information from them. Mm-hmm. And to find out details and, get more information on this is where we find out what happened to the bike and she finds the location of the body. Right. So, Well, she tricks him into telling her she tricks him into telling her, because they're on a hike, and she's drinking some, like a- Red Bull Red Bull. Sugar-free Red Bull. Sugar-free Red Bull is what it was. Yeah. 'Cause it was very specific 'cause he accuses her of, later in it we find out that what she has done, and he's like, "You're the only one who drank this." But yeah, sugar-free Red Bull. They're on a hike, she's drinking it, and she's pulling this information out of him, trying to find out where it is, and he says just like basically right here. Yeah. So she throws the Red Bull can- Mm-hmm and, marks the spot. And he sees her do that, and then he's like, "What are you doing? What?" And she's like, "Oh, my bad." Go pick it up. Right. So she, she, uh, she goes back and pretends to pick it up. Mm-hmm. And she does not, and that's how she has marked the spot where his body was buried. smart kind of, but also not. What if that blew away and got in another area, and now all of a sudden the cops are out here digging for something too many variables. I don't know what else she could have done. Yeah. I don't know what technology was then. I mean, it wasn't that long ago, but technology has changed so much. Mm-hmm. But I would think, if she had her phone, type a pin or something? Right. Yeah Well, in all honesty, I struggle every time I have to drop a pin, so if she's like me Well, yeah, but if the cops told her, "Hey, here's an app that we- Right use," or, "This, put this app on your phone- Yeah and it will record exactly where you go." Yeah, well, and that's some downside on the cops' part because we find out that they weren't really supported through the whole thing anyway, but I see what you're saying. But like, we were on a hike from this time to this time. Mm-hmm. Where was I at about this time? Mm. And I mean, 'cause you can see the location. Yeah. I don't know. It felt like there was better ways to do that. Yeah, not the Red Bull. No. No. Just like throwing it over her shoulder. Yeah. She calls, they arrest them, but they can't hold them because there's not enough evidence to hold them. They question them and they're like, "Nope, not us. I don't know what you're talking about." Right, right. "Not it." Don't look over here. Yeah. So Caroline's like, "Oh my God, they're gonna get out. They're not keeping them." Mm-hmm. Like, "They're gonna c- immediately think it's me." Right. Um, but they don't. They think that they've been, had surveillance on them this whole time because, you know, drugs and,, paranoia. Drugs and I think he had on rose-colored glasses too 'cause he's like, "You're the only person I've told," and she's like, "No, it wasn't me." And he's like, "Okay." Well, he's like, "I think..." Robert must have been drunk and running his mouth is what he, it's like- Mm-hmm something to that effect. Mm-hmm. And, um, they were, they must have been doing surveillance on us. So luckily he had his rose-colored glasses on. Right. But Robert did suspect her- Yes for a hot minute. Yeah. And, Sandy was like, "You gotta go stay at somebody else's house." Yeah. Yeah. You can't stay here with us. Nope. Nope, not here. So the police ask her, "We, we need more evidence. You're on it." Mm-hmm. Putting her in the worst situation. Just asking a civilian to do that and not any support really? Did she wear a wire or was she just recording things on her phone? I think just on her phone. That's what I was thinking, but- And that's like- That's bad. That's scary bad. Yeah and they show it. It's video. And so I'm such a klutz. You know how when you start the video it's like... And you, I always forget to turn it down, and it's like everybody knows you're taking a video. Mm-hmm. Oh my God, that could've been so terrible for her. So they're at this party, they're doing the coke. She's recording him. Okay, that's where we were. So, so they're at, I don't even know whose house they're at. They're at her place, I think, at this point. They're staying in her condo 'cause they haul estate as a crime scene- Right so they show up at her house, and she's like, they know, and they're getting ready to kill me." Mm-hmm. Um, nope, they just wanted to come crash and, and party and stuff. So she's... They're... They show the video that she has taken when she was a great sleuth, and it shows, them pacing, them being the twins, pacing. And they kept calling them the boys. Mm-hmm. That was gross to me. I don't even know how old they are, but they are not boys. Yeah. It's showing them, like, pacing, and this is where you can hear her, like, snorting a line and stuff, and she's just trying to pull more information out of them. And, and I, I think I would stay high too in that situation. But then, but then I would be like, "What if I say something when I'm high?" But I think that I... My nerves would just be so, like- Yeah shot, and you'd be so strung out anyway- Yeah that I would be like, "Well, at least I'm high." Well, I got that going for me. So yeah, she 100% thinks that they're onto her and that she's just a goner. Right. Well, so the cops knock on the door. Yep. And she's like, "Can I talk to you outside?" Mm-hmm. 'Cause the boys, the twins, are sleeping inside. Yep. And they're like, "No, what, what, who's the, who's here?" Yeah. And she's like, "Nobody. Can we please, can I talk to you outside?" Mm-hmm. And they're like, "No," and they bust through her door and see that the twins are there. And they're like, "Caroline, what is this?" Yeah. And she's like, "Uh..." Right. "That's my fiance." Right. And they're like, "You guys can't stay here." And, and Sandy's like, "Yes, I can. This is my fiance's house." Mm-hmm. And the brother, was like just sitting there like, "What the heck?" looking at- Right Caroline because now he's putting two and two together "Hmm." Yeah, like, how did the cop know your name? Yeah. Mm-hmm. So the cops are like, basically like, "You're on your own. Hate it for you." Yeah, yeah. And they leave. So after they've already not supported her, now she's trying, she's still continuing to help them, and now they come in and then they do that. Ugh. Such bad police work. Very much so. the police leave. Caroline was like, "Ah, it wasn't me, I swear." And Sandy's like, "You're right. It wasn't." We know. And Robert's like, "No, it's you." Yeah, definitely you, 100% you. And Sandy's like, "You know what? You can't talk to my woman like that." Yeah. "You need to leave." Right. And so Robert leaves and stays at a family friend's house in another town. Yeah. So then we go on to episode three. Yep. And, this is, this whole episode is awful of how they treat her- Mm-hmm and how, they don't support her. Mm-hmm. They don't give her any of the benefits that she should have as a witness. Right. And there were so many ways they could have saved her- And- mental state yes, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to keep talking over you. No, go ahead. But they just, not only they don't support her, but they don't give her any, like- Resources nothing. Nothing. Just like, "Do your best." We hope you're alive by the end of this. Right. We'll try not to sell you out, but we can't make any promises. But you kinda suck, so we really don't care. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, that's really what it was. It was like, "Meh, you're a doctor. You should've known better. Hate it for you." Pretty much. And that's what the detective says. She's a doctor. She knew how to get help. Not when you're addic- No doing, like, you're in the throes of that. No. No, you don't. No. And she's begging for help. I don't know what benefits are available as a witness now, like, to... I'm just going off of Law Order stuff, you know? But I don't know what kind of support you're supposed to get. Like, you know, what do they, do they give you things? Well, they- I, I don't know so they said that there's, the option for witness protection. Yep. But she wasn't bad enough for witness protection or whatever. It wasn't like they were out, murdering the whole town. They killed one guy and okay- Yeah she's in the house with them, and they potentially know she was the rat. Right. Right. And again, it's not just one- It's- which, I mean, yeah, not that that would be easy, but it's both of them who could overpower her very easily. And then, they said that she could have pre-recorded her testimony and not had to do the trial. Mm. Um, which they said, "No, her being on stand would be a bigger impact for our case, so too bad, so sad." I feel like at that point, I mean, you've already put the work in, but I'd al- almost sort of be like, "Screw you." Then she was asking for help, 'cause she's like, "I'm, like, I'm addicted to these drugs. Like, I-" Mm-hmm "like, I'm not thinking right. I need help." Mm-hmm. And they're basically like, "Mm." "Sorry about that." "You should've known better." Yeah. Terrible at the end they said that, she should've gotten help at that point- Mm-hmm for the addiction port- portion of it. Mm-hmm. And to be clear-headed to go to trial. Like, why wouldn't you want your witness- To be clean and sober and put on their best face, wear their suit like they've been to work and not been to the bar. But yeah, you want your people to, to present well. Yes. And she did not. And they actually, I don't remember what the role is of the person who says it, but, like, she didn't get any of the resources she needed. Mm-mm. None. Or, s- that were available to her. Yeah. then they had a district attorney, that man who, oh God, I wanted to just climb through- Oh the screen. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Would've gotten another misdemeanor. Right. Right. Catch a charge, catch a charge. So, the trial, or like from start to finish, this is like a two-year process- Mm-hmm that this poor lady is going through it. See, she should have just said, "I do," and moved on. And just moved on with it, and they're not locked up. And she's, like, convincing herself now that, "Maybe I didn't tell him." She's, like, believing, like, her own lies at this point- Mm-hmm of, They also treated me poorly, the police. Right. My man is, innocent and- Uh-huh closer, you know? Yeah. She's, like, buying into her own, delusions- Uh-huh of this at this point. Well, it's probably because, too, you know, she said so many times that, "It wasn't me." Mm-hmm. She said that so many times, she's believing- Mm-hmm her own, jargon. Yeah. And a- again, they're not locked up. They're out just wandering around willy-nilly, and she... I love that word, and we've said it in every episode for like three or four weeks. Well, now we have to keep putting it in like a Where's Waldo. Well, so in the meantime, her relationship with her parents is, falling apart. Mm-hmm. Like, all of... She's isolated. Yeah. And she's doing whatever she can just to survive at this point. And her best friend- Yes that we have through this whole- A douche Like, that's the worst thing we've said on here. No. I just, I, I was in my head thinking of a better word but my voice came out too quickly. Glad your words and stuff aren't working well. I have no idea what that feels like. So we've, we've had him through this whole series. And he's been just, like, really arrogant and- Mm-hmm um, like, "Well, I told her so," kind of like vibe- Yeah of she should've listened to me and she- I- wouldn't be in this mess I got the vibe of, "I wanted her anyway and yeah, she wasn't with me so I kinda kicked her to the curb and now I wanna be a jerk about it." Yeah. I didn't like him. No. He was... Mm. You know what? Chat didn't even put him in our notes. No. No. So, she's really isolated. She has, really no options of- Mm what to do. Mm-hmm. she's fearful for her parents, so she doesn't wanna stay there. Like, she doesn't wanna put them in harm's way. Right. So she's trying to stay away from them as much as possible. Mm-hmm. Um, and the best friend's just like, "Ooh, you suck, because, you won't let me bang you." And, We get to the trial and it's day one of the trial, and she's supposed to be the star witness- Mm-hmm supposed to be there day one, and she doesn't show up. Right. And in her head she's like, "They haven't found this bicycle yet. The bicycle's gonna nail this, and they're gonna go to jail if I find this bicycle." Yeah. So she goes, and there's video of her. She- Yes she took video of this, of her stealing this, what was it? Like, a tractor or something. Something. And she looks like she's high as a kite, Oh, 100% or really, really strung out or- Exhausted and all of it- Yeah together. She looks awful. Yeah. I wouldn't want her on the stand if I was the district attorney. No. Yeah, maybe good that she didn't go that day. she goes searching for this bike. And we see her just, like, gallivanting through the highlands trying to find it. And she's like, "The water was really cold." Well, yeah. I'm sure it was She does not find the bike, right? Correct. Okay. But in the meantime, the twins take a plea deal. Those boys. I mean, luckily, because she was in no condition- Yeah to get on stand. Yeah. She, by the end of that- Trek horrible. Yeah. A tr- train wreck. Very much. We didn't even talk about, though, them coming and, seeing the, finding where he was with the can. Yeah. So that happened. Let's skip over. We can't hit everything. We can. Just watch the apps, episodes. Christmas Carol, they want everything. Stop. Um, so how many years did he get? I, no, listen, after they listen to this, there's no point to watch it because we are such professionals. So, Sandy, the driver, got 12 years. Mm-hmm. Um, he admitted he was driving too fast after drinking, struck the cyclist, and left him alive on a remote road without calling for help. And that's the culpable homicide, and that's similar to voluntary manslaughter here. So he got 12, and Robert, since he wasn't driving, got five years and three months. So that was in Mm-hmm So he'll be out in 2028. Yep. I don't know how the system works over there. I don't know if they get, good behavior and stuff. If they were good. True. They're, you know, that's part of the good behavior thing is you have to actually do the good part. So I mean, how would you feel though, as Sandy, that you put them away, right? They didn't get that much time. Mm-hmm. And the brother'll be out in two years I'm still feeling terrified Yeah And they know it was her by this point Yeah They, I mean, like, the drugs are wearing off, everybody's crashing they're in the courtroom, like, are- And, and they see the star witness Caroline's not here, guys Yeah. That doctor that we can't really say her last name, she decided to not show up today. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't know I would be scared, I think, but I think I'd be more scared when, Sandy gets released. Yeah Than when Robert... I feel like Sandy's worse. Well, I do but I don't because they ha- there's that whole conversation between Sandy and Caroline where he's like, "Look, I know it's really not your fault. At the bottom of this, I did wrong." Mm-hmm. "So I still love you, basically. It's not my fault. Can we have a conjugal visit?" No, I just did that last part in. But really, no. But really, but can we? Um, so I mean, i- it's like, maybe the good is trying to come out. Yeah. I think I'd be more scared of Robert because- He didn't love her Right. He, like, he just was He wasn't the driver. Yeah. He didn't love her. He just was along for the ride. Yeah. He's the not fun twin. Apparently. You know, every twins has, like, a fun one. The evil one? Yeah, yeah. Is the evil one the fun one often? Yes. Normally. Well- And usually the hot one Oh, yeah. We know about that We know. Oh, and we find out she gets, like, $500 or something like that. So you, you, you blew up your whole life. You narced on your boyfriend, fiance. Mm-hmm And- Right you got 500 bucks. Screwed up your job of schoolmarm. Can't, yeah. I mean, like, everybody knows at this point And your family, whatever, and your best friend's still a douche. So let's wrap up the red flags, right, of this whole thing. Isolated first date. Yeah On this- Slightly 28,000 acre estate. Incredibly fast engagement. Uh-huh Sandy gets a little bit aggressive when he's drinking or- Mm-hmm doing whatever he's doing, which, the combinations of what they were doing is not, I mean- Mm-hmm like, it's not far-fetched that he got aggressive. The twin warns Caroline. Uh-huh. The murder confession. Oh, coming. Yeah. Red flag. Let's not forget that one. And, then asking her to help move a body. Right. and she was just, like, playing along the whole time. Like, "Yeah, this is great. Love you." Well, when they did the whole asking about help him move the body, but she's like telling them. They're, they're like, "We put a lot of bleach on the body." And she's like, "Well, you need to do this." She's- She was helping, but she had to play along, right, though? Because if she didn't... I don't know. And at that point she should have just kept her mouth shut and marry the dude. They could've been on a honeymoon in Aruba. I'm, I'm just saying. What's, were they going to Aruba? Anyway. I don't know what I would do- I do at any step in this. I told you what I would do. I like to think, number one, the only thing I think I'm pretty sure of is that I would not do cocaine. That's like the only thing I'm sure of at this point. Yeah. I'm scared, especially with all the way things are cut now. Well, this is back then. Yeah. Only 10 years ago. Well, I mean, it was a little cleaner back then. True. There wasn't as much fentanyl in the States. We're in- No, we're up there we're solid. It's probably clean over there. It's probably made with, like, sheep innards or something. Haggis. Isn't that what that is? I don't know. Oh my gosh, my nerd is coming out. Let me stuff that back in. Usually- Things, things I will not order. Right. Usually when, I can put myself in somebody's role in these things, I'm like, "Oh yeah, I wouldn't do that," or I'd do... You know, this I- This I, I really think that if I was that, like head over heels for this guy that- Mm-hmm. Um, uh- One, I would never have thought to ask "Is there something that I need to know?" No. It would never would've crossed my mind- No to even ask that. Uh-huh, no. So we wouldn't be in this predicament- Right anyway because I would just be like, "La, la, la, la, la. Let's get married." I would have said it. And all happy. Um, but even after that, I think I would've been like, "Well, that is awful." It's a shame. It's a horrible thing that happened. It was an accident, so he's saying. Mm-hmm. She didn't... Obviously he didn't tell her the whole thing, but I really think that I would've just- Just gone with it? Kept going. And continue with the wedding planning and picking out venues and stuff? I love trying on dresses. You sure do. I do. You sure do. Like you said, first of all, I wouldn't be like, "Tell me your deepest, darkest secret ever." No. No. If, if I was him- I wouldn't want to know his deepest, darkest se- No. Like listen, what happened before I met you- Mm-hmm I don't need to know. Uh-uh. Not my problem. Yeah. I mean, unless it's like contractible something then. Unless I need medication for it. Then, then that- Yeah that's something you need to tell me. But- I, and I still can't believe he told her. I know. What... Do you think it's like he wanted somebody to know? Like he wanted to, almost he wanted to get caught kind of thing? I think that one, maybe it was a test. Yeah. I mean, it's a stupid test- Yeah because it blew up on him, like- Right didn't go the way he thought it was gonna go. Right. But, Yeah, like a loyalty thing or- Or like, "Well, now she's in it with me." Uh-huh. He thought that she was so in love and w- I mean- just go along with it. Um, n- now she's a, she's an accomplice because she knows about it and she's not going to the police. Yeah. And now that binds them forever. Mm-hmm. Is kind of like what I think. I could see that. I get that too. He was like love bombing her and like getting- Mm-hmm her so wrapped up in him- Mm-hmm that would bind her to him forever. I wonder if she would not have asked that if he would've ever told her. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Mm. But can you imagine watching this right before you go on a date? You're welcome. So the next one we're gonna do is called A toxic love story. Yes, and it's on Netflix also. Mm-hmm. And it is just one long thing. It's not, um, broken up at all. It's, it's a easy one. Movie, I think I've watched it. Uh-huh. Gonna watch it again because there's so many question marks. But listen, I would never go to the cops if you ever told me that. I would 100% help you- Oh, yeah, no get rid of the body. Yeah. Yeah. I've got my rose colored glasses. You do. Well, you know it would be for a good reason. Yes. Always. Even if it wasn't for a good reason. Even if it wasn't for a good... I'd still, I'd still do it 'Cause I'm like, wait a minute, this wasn't even like a murder. No. This was just like an accident. No. It was just- I still got you though, no matter the reason. Well,, the only good news out of all this is that the cyclist's family got some closure. Yeah. They, they found all the, the things, and they, they found the answers, and they were able to- Mm take that and m- move forward- Move on as much as they can whatever. So good thing. Yeah. All right, guys, thank you for listening in. Next week we will do our book review, and the following week we will have our documentary, so please leave us a review. We love you. We love you. Thank you. Bye. Bye.