The Passengers Dilemma: Forgiving the Unforgivable

What does forgiveness actually mean?

In this episode of the Shane Lingo Podcast, we break down one of the most misunderstood ideas in our culture: forgiveness. Is it excusing what happened? Forgetting it? Restoring trust? Or something deeper entirely?

Using a powerful scene from Passengers and a real-life courtroom moment that captured national attention, Shane Lingo explores what forgiveness really is—and what it’s not.

At the center of the conversation is this idea: forgiveness isn’t pretending there was no cost… it’s choosing not to make the other person pay you back for it.

In this episode, we walk through:
 • What forgiveness actually is
 • 7 things forgiveness is not
 • Why holding onto the “debt” keeps us stuck
 • How the gospel reframes forgiveness completely

If you’ve ever struggled to let something go, this conversation is for you.

Because at some point, we all have to face the question:
Are we going to hold onto the debt… or release it?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome back to the Speaking Your Lingo podcast. Today we're talking about forgiveness, what it is, what it isn't, and what the Bible actually calls us to. And we're starting with a moment from the movie Passengers that really raises a question most of us have felt. And that question is what do you do when someone takes something from you that they can't give back?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Did you wake me up?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Not happy with the butler. Yes, I woke you up.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

How? How could you do it?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Now, if you haven't seen the movie Passengers, you've at least probably seen this clip floating around online. And it's usually turned into some sort of joke about waking up your wife too early or something like that. But what I love about this movie is that underneath all of that, there are some really deep themes. And one of those themes being forgiveness, which is what we're really going to focus in on today. When should we forgive? What does forgiveness actually require? What forgiveness is not, uh, what the Bible, what does the Bible teach us about forgiveness? And really, are there some things that are too big to forgive? And so we're going to walk through all of that. But first, back to this clip. I saw someone comment on one of these reels, and I want to show you what they said because the conversation it sparked was actually really helpful when thinking through forgiveness. And so here's what the first person said. I really had a problem with this. She forgave him for that. He condemned her to a life of never getting to where they were going, never seeing anyone else. Basically, a prison sentence till death. Now, before we look at the other responses, I want to pause here for a second because this person gets it. They understand the weight of what forgiveness actually cost Aurora in this moment. And if you haven't seen the movie Passengers, just a quick recap. The story follows Jim Patterson and Aurora Lane. They're two passengers that are on this spaceship and they're traveling to a new planet while everyone else is in hibernation. Everyone is asleep. And then Jim wakes up accidentally 90 years too early. And he realizes he's completely alone. Everyone else is, again, there's they're still asleep. So after more than a year of total isolation, he has to make this devastating decision. Andor he wrestles with this decision and he wakes up Aurora so that he doesn't have to live and die alone. And that's what makes this such a big deal because Aurora, she had her whole life ahead of her: plans, a purpose, a future. And by waking her up early, Jim takes all of that away from her. So she can't go back to sleep. He essentially decides the rest of her life for her without her agreeing to it. That means the rest of her life won't be on this new planet that she dreamed about. Um, it will be spent on this ship. So when she finds out in this scene, it's not just betrayal, but it's the realization that her entire life was taken from her. And yet, spoiler alert, she chooses to forgive him. So here's what this movie and this comment show us. Forgiveness in moments like this isn't small, it's incredibly costly. Now, someone else is going to respond to that comment, and I want to read what they had to say. They said he was a good person who had a moment of weakness in a severe situation. The isolation might have driven most of us crazy. Besides, would she rather spend the rest of her life alone on the ship, absolutely hating the one other person on it? Forgiveness is often more for the forgiver than the one being forgiven. Now, some people might push back on the phrase, he was a good person. And sure, compared to a holy God, no one is good. But you understand what they're getting at. And I actually think this comment does something important. It it empathizes, right? And empathy can matter when it comes to forgiveness. But we need to be careful here because what Jim did was not justified. It was selfish, it was wrong. And when we talk about forgiveness, we can't blur that line between the two things. To empathize is to really step into someone else's shoes and to understand how they got where they got, to understand how they got there. To justify is to say that what they did was right. And those are not the same thing. And if we confuse the two, we're gonna struggle to think clearly about forgiveness. He also brings up another important point in that comment that not forgiving might actually be a worse option for her. And we're gonna come back to that in just a bit. But someone later is gonna argue in the comments that Jim's choice actually ended up saving everyone, which is true. But the problem with that argument that he ends up saving everyone is that he doesn't know that when he's making the choice. That actually happens after the fact. Jim didn't wake her up knowing that he was gonna save the entire ship, right? So it still didn't justify what he did. And if it did justify what he did, then there wouldn't be a need for forgiveness. But as you're watching the movie and as you're processing, you can see there clearly is a need for forgiveness because what he did was ultimately wrong. Which leads us to a really important question. What is forgiveness? And so let's slow down and talk about that for a second. Because once we understand what forgiveness is, we can start answering some of these bigger questions, like when should we forgive? And what does forgiveness actually require, and what forgiveness is not, and all of those things. So one of the most important ways to understand forgiveness is really to think about it through the eyes or through the lens of debt. You know, Jesus even teaches us to pray this way. He says in the Lord's Prayer, forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors, right? And so when we use the word debt, we're usually saying that someone owes us something. Usually we think about money. Um, if you're in debt, you owe someone a certain amount that needs to be paid back. And forgiveness works in a similar way. Just it's it's not always with money. When someone wrongs you, they create a kind of relational debt and you feel it. We say things like, you took my time, right? Or you took my peace, you you took my trust, you took my innocence, or you hurt me. And now, because of that, you owe me. Because of your actions, you have created a debt, and I want you to pay me back. You again, you owe me. And that's really how debt works, especially in the realm when we're talking about this relational debt that all of us create in different ways between one another. In other words, because of what you did, there's something missing, and you should have to make it right. But forgiveness takes that debt and it says something very different. It says, you don't owe me anymore. You wronged me, but you don't owe me. You lied to me, but you don't owe me. You cheated on me, but you don't owe me. In other words, I'm erasing the debt. It's gone, it doesn't exist anymore. I'm I'm getting rid of it. And here's the reality: the reason forgiveness is so important is because most of these debts that that people accrue against one another, they can't actually be paid back. Think about it for a sec. How does someone repay you for betrayal? How does someone repay you for trauma? How does a father repay a child for being absent their entire childhood? They can't. Not fully, which means when someone wrongs us, we're really left with two options. We can either hold on to the debt and let it slowly eat at us and even poison us, or we can choose to release it. We can choose to say that, hey, you don't owe me anymore, right? We're we're we're good. I'm letting this go. And that is where forgiveness becomes powerful. Uh, about six years ago, there was a moment in a courtroom that people still talk about today. It involved Amber Geiger, uh, a Dallas police officer, who in 2018 she entered what she believed was her apartment, but it was actually the apartment of Botham Jean. And so, believing that he was an intruder, she shot and killed him in his own home. And at her sentencing, Botham's younger brother, Brandt Jean, was given the opportunity to speak. And so what he said and what he did next captured the attention of the entire country. Maybe you remember that moment watching that online. And so I want to listen to this moment again.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

I don't want to say twice or for the hundredth time what you've or how much you've taken from us. I think you know that.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

So right there, he recognizes that you have taken something from us. In other words, you do you owe us, right? You you took he took, she took his brother's life.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

But I just I hope you go to God with all what all the guilt, all the things, the bad things you may have done in the past. Each and every one of us may have done something that we're not supposed to do. If you truly are sorry, I know I can speak for myself. I I forgive you. And I know if you go to God and ask him, he will forgive you.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

It's powerful. He starts to preach the gospel to her that if you go to God for for the sins that you've done, essentially, he'll forgive you. I forgive you.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

And I don't think anyone can say it. Again, I'm speaking for myself, not even bad for my family. But I love you just like anyone else. And I'm not gonna say I hope you rot and die just like my brother did, but I see I I personally want the best for you. And I I wasn't gonna ever say this in front of my family or anyone, but I don't even want you to go to jail. I want the best for you because I know that's what that's exactly what both of them would want you to do, and the best would be give your life to Christ. I'm not gonna say anything else. I think giving your life to Christ would be the best thing that both of them would want you to do. Again, I love you as a person. And I don't wish anything bad on you. I don't know if this is possible, but can I give her a hug, please? Please. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Wow. It's hard to watch that and not feel the weight of it because that right there is a powerful picture of what Christ can do in someone's heart. You hear him share the gospel and say he wants the best for her. That's you know, that's not normal. That's love, that is forgiveness. And ultimately, what we see is his example, which is Christ. Christ is the greatest example of this. You know, he stepped into human history to do this very thing, and it cost him one of the most brutal, agonizing deaths that the world has ever seen at the cross. And with that, God is saying, He's saying, You don't owe me anymore. I'm going to pay your debt. I forgive you. And I I think about the words from Colossians that the apostle Paul spoke, and I want to read those to us. He says this in Colossians 2, verses 13 through 14. And you who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. Such a beautiful passage and really a beautiful picture that it paints. This is what Christian forgiveness is grounded in. And we're gonna come back to that picture in just a moment because it matters more than we think. But before we go any further, we need to clear something up because this is where a lot of people get confused about forgiveness. And so I wanted to take a moment today to talk about what forgiveness is not. Really, seven things that forgiveness is not. And so, first, forgiveness is not excusing what happened. Forgiveness doesn't mean that what was done to you was okay, and it's not trying to say that it was okay, it's not trying to justify the wrong. Um, it doesn't rewrite the story, it doesn't soften what happened. You can fully say that was real, that was wrong, that hurt, and still choose to forgive someone. Second, it's it's not forgetting. Forgiveness doesn't erase the memory because you often hear people say things like forgive and forget. But it's it's not that. That's not how it works. And I understand that people are, you know, good meaning or goodwill behind that statement, but you're not pretending it didn't happen, but instead you're choosing not to hold it over them. And again, those are two different things because remembering isn't a failure to forgive. And in many cases, forgetting isn't truly possible. But again, forgiveness says, I'm going to treat you as if you don't owe me anything. I'm going to actually release the debt. And at the end of the day, I desire what's best for you. Third, it's not restoring the same level of trust. You know, trust and forgiveness are not the same thing. Forgiveness can be given freely, but trust is often built over time. And it's it's often wise to allow trust to be built over time. Um, and and sometimes it's never rebuilt the same way. Sometimes we can fully forgive someone and still not trust them like we did before or give them the same level of trust that they did before. And I think there is something to be said that forgiveness can give opportunities for people to gain trust, but it's not always the goal to have to give someone the same level of trust in the relationship. Fourth, it's not removing healthy boundaries. Forgiveness doesn't mean unlimited access. Uh, you can forgive someone and still create space in the relationship. You can still set limits, you can still have distance. And boundaries aren't always a sign of bitterness. It's not about being passive aggressive or completely shutting them out. Um, but a lot of times creating those boundaries is wise. And again, this kind of goes hand in hand with what we just talked about, you know, a moment ago with trust. Uh, number five, it's not eliminating all consequences. Forgiveness doesn't cancel accountability. Someone can be forgiven and still face real consequences, legal, relational, or whatever it may be. And so letting go of the debt doesn't mean pretending that nothing happened and doesn't mean that you have to erase all consequences here that they might have to face. And sometimes those consequences might actually be a good thing for them. Again, when we talk about love, desiring and pursuing what is best for another, that is exactly what that might mean, is that they face some of those consequences, even though you've taken the step of forgiveness. Uh, number six, it's not always continuing the relationship. Forgiveness doesn't mean that there's always complete reconciliation. And I think forgiveness does try to work towards reconciliation when it is possible, absolutely. But sometimes the relationship needs to change. And sometimes that relationship, depending on the dynamics, might need to end. And this is messy, and this all takes you know, wisdom to when you're wrestling with this, you know, there's so many different relational dynamics that I can't speak to. But sometimes it does have to change. And so you can release the debt without stepping back into the same exact situation or the same relational dynamic that you were in before. Uh, sometimes that relationship just has to change. And then lastly, number seven, uh, it's not a one-time decision. You know, sometimes forgiveness is a process, sometimes it's a daily choice because feelings come back, the memories come back, the recognization of what you lost comes back. And in those moments, you have to choose again. You have to choose, they don't owe me. I let this go. Now, one of the reasons that moment in the courtroom was so powerful is because when Brand Jean looked at Amber Geiger and chose to forgive her, he wasn't saying, What you did to my brother was okay. He wasn't forgetting it, he wasn't, you know, removing the consequences. She was still being sentenced. But what he was doing was he was releasing the debt. He was saying, You don't owe me anymore. I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life trying to collect from you, you know, through anger and through hatred and through revenge. Because that's really what unforgiveness does. It keeps a record, it keeps demanding payment. But in that moment, he chose to cancel the debt. Not because it was small by any means, but because he chose forgiveness. And that's what made it so powerful. Because again, forgiveness isn't pretending that there was no cost, it's choosing not to make the other person pay you back. And this is where Christianity pushes this further than any other world religion or any other worldview. It doesn't just value forgiveness, it ultimately redefines it, right? Jesus doesn't present forgiveness as something that's optional or something that you give only when someone earns it. He pushes it beyond that. In the Gospel of Matthew, when he's asked how often you should forgive, his answer is essentially don't keep count. And in the Gospel of Luke, even when being crucified, he prays for the very people who are killing him. And that's a different level when we're talking about this idea of forgiveness. And Christianity doesn't just teach forgiveness as like, you know, it's a it's a good idea, it presents it as a reflection of who God is, as a reflection of his very character, which leads to something even more unique because in Christianity, forgiveness isn't just God overlooking a wrong. It's it's not God saying it didn't matter. Instead, the message of the gospel is that God takes justice seriously and still chooses to forgive, right? And that's what makes it so powerful. So it and so how does he do that? He does that through sacrifice. God sends his son Jesus Christ to bear the cost of sin. So forgiveness isn't cheap, it's paid for. And it's the ultimate picture of what we're what we've been talking about. Not pretending that it that there was no debt in the first place, but choosing to absorb it instead of making someone else pay. Which means when Christians talk about forgiveness, we're not just Talking about a moral principle. We're talking about something we believe has been done for us. And that changes everything because now forgiveness isn't just a command, but it's actually a response. It's saying, I release this debt because I believe mine has already been released. I was actually rereading Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis recently, and he makes a point about Jesus and forgiveness that really stood out to me this time because he points out something that we often miss. When Jesus goes around and he's forgiving sins, it sounds normal to us because, you know, we we we hear that phrase all the time like Jesus forgives you or Jesus can forgive sins. And we've heard it so many times that we don't stop and think about what that actually means. But Lewis says if you really think about it, it's actually shocking. So listen to listen to how Lewis explains it. And I want I want to read this to us. He says this one part of the claim that tends to slip past us unnoticed because we've heard it so often that we no longer see what it amounts to. I mean the claim to forgive sins, any sins. Now, unless the speaker is God, this is really so preposterous as to be comic. We can all understand how a man forgives offenses against himself. You tread on my toes and I forgive you. You steal my money and I forgive you. But what should we make of a man himself, unrobbed and untroded on, who announced that he forgave you for treading on other men's toes and stealing other men's money? So Lewis is getting at an important point here. When Jesus is saying, I forgive sins, he's saying that all offenses, all sins have actually been committed against him. Lewis continues on. Yet this is what Jesus did. He told people that their sins were forgiven and never waited to console all the other people whom their sins had undoubtedly injured. He unhesitantly behaved as if he was the party chiefly concerned, the person chiefly offended in all offenses. This makes sense only if he really was the God whose laws are broken and whose love is wounded in every sin. So Lewis is getting at something really important here because when Jesus forgives people throughout the Gospels, he's not just forgiving personal offenses in the narrow sense. He's speaking as if every sin is ultimately against him. And Lewis's point is this you only get to do that if you are the one most offended in every sin. You only get to do that if you're God, if you're the creator, the sustainer, the one who is over all things. In other words, if God is real, then sin isn't just a horizontal thing between us and other people. It's also a vertical thing, right? And that completely reframes forgiveness because now forgiveness isn't just you hurt me and I release you. It's tied to a deeper reality that every wrong creates a kind of debt before God. And this is where everything we've been talking about comes together. Because if forgiveness is the releasing of a debt, then Christianity makes this shocking claim. God doesn't just tell us to release our debts, He actually steps in and he pays them. That's the gospel. Not that sin didn't matter, but that God in Jesus Christ absorbs the cost himself. So when we talk about forgiveness, real forgiveness, we're not just talking about a nice idea. We're talking about something costly, something weighty, something that, if Christianity is true, has already been done for us. And so here's the question that this ultimately leaves us with Who in your life are you still holding debt against? Who is it that when you think about them, you kind of feel that tension, that weight, that sense of you owe me? And maybe it's something big. Maybe it's just something recent. Maybe it's something that you've been carrying for years. And listen, this matters because choosing to forgive, again, it's not saying that what was done to you was okay. It's not minimizing it, it's not pretending that it doesn't hurt or that it didn't hurt. It's choosing to do really what we've been talking about. It's choosing to release the debt. It's really choosing to say, you don't owe me anymore. That's not easy because forgiveness actually costs something. But if Christianity is true, then it's something God has already done for you. And that changes how we respond because now we're not forgiving just out of willpower. We're responding to the forgiveness we believe we have already received. So maybe for you, this starts in a simple but honest prayer. A prayer before God where you name the person, you name what happened, and you say, I'm gonna choose to release this. And maybe it's God help me to release this. They don't owe me anymore. And for some of you, that might not be the final step. At some point in in the you know, in the the process, it's gonna have to turn into a conversation with the person. And not to ignore what happened, but to genuine genuinely extend forgiveness to that person. And that doesn't mean that everything in the relationship, again, has to go back to the same way that it was, but um, and it doesn't mean that trust is you know restored in the same way. Um, but it simply means you're no longer carrying the debt and you're letting them know I'm not carrying a debt against you. Because at some point, you have to decide. Am I going to keep holding on to this or ultimately am I going to let it go? And that's really what forgiveness is. It's it's again, it's not saying it didn't matter, but it's choosing not to make them pay you back anymore. And listen, this might not happen all at once. For for some of you, it's gonna be a process, right? For for some of you, this is something that you're gonna have to choose again tomorrow and the next day and the next day. But every time you do, you're taking a step toward freedom because holding on to the debt, it doesn't just hold them captive, it actually holds you captive too. So whether that starts in prayer and then eventually ends in a conversation, my hope for you today is to encourage you to take that step to start the process of letting go of that debt. And so, with that, as always, I want to say thanks for listening, thanks for subscribing, and I'll see you on the next episode.