The Regular Guys Bible Study
The Regular Guys Bible Study podcast -- RGBS -- is a podcast for regular guys by regular guys (not theologians) studying the Bible together. It's brought to you by a couple of goofy guys who just want to study the Bible together and show you that anyone can read and study the Bible. In fact, you SHOULD read and study the Bible yourself. We're here to show you how we do it, and, hopefully, we can have some fun along the way.
The Regular Guys Bible Study
2 Peter 2
Can laughter and chaos reveal profound truths about biblical teachings? Join us on this rollicking journey through 2 Peter Chapter 2 as we wade through some initial mix-ups and technical hiccups, only to land on the crucial themes of false prophets and teachers. We promise you'll learn how the meticulous weaving of historical examples and divine judgment underscores Peter's warnings. We'll connect these insights to the reassuring message that God is ever capable of saving the righteous while ensuring justice is served. Our light-hearted banter takes a deep dive into understanding the power of prophecy as divinely inspired and the importance of contextual insight, starting with the final verse of Chapter 1.
Ever wondered about the enigmatic angels mentioned in Genesis, or how fictional biblical narratives might muddy our understanding of sin? Our lively discussion unearths the complexities around these celestial mysteries, linking them to the defiling passions of times past and present. We explore the intriguing potential for redemption among false prophets, spotlighting how the Apostle Paul's transformation stands as a testament to hope. And who could forget Balaam and the tale of his talking donkey? We unravel this colorful narrative to reveal the subtle influences of false teachings driven by personal ambition. So, buckle up for a session that promises both clarity and amusement as we unpack these perplexing passages with a chuckle and a chortle.
You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your hosts, ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together, not theologians All right, Steve Ken, I thought you were going to change that intro because you determined we are technically theologians.
Ken:Maybe I need to write. I just need to have a dubbed over-trained theologians. Maybe I need to write. I just need to have a dubbed over trained theologians.
Steve:We could try to time it each time, maybe so.
Ken:All right, guys. Well, we're having some technical difficulties today, but I think it'll all work out. Trying to do this remotely and I think it's. It'll be fine, steve.
Steve:It'll be fine. No one wants to hear my voice. They don't care if it's a little muffled.
Ken:It actually sounds a little better this way.
Steve:It's not really muffled.
Ken:I wouldn't call it muffled it's, it's more like um 10 canny, not yeah tin canny. No, not Tim Conway. Tim Conway is much funnier than you are. This is true, this is very true. Is he dead? Actually he is dead. Did he die like this past year?
Steve:Yeah, I think so. It wasn't that long ago.
Ken:All right. Well, guys, we are in 2, peter, and we are on Chapter 2. This is a tough chapter for me. I don't know about you, steve Tough, in what way. I don't know what to take from it. Tough in that I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it now. You have this look on your face. Like ken, you're an idiot, which you know I am.
Steve:my look, the look on my face, is because I was looking at the chapter two. I was like this is not what I read. I was in first Peter, chapter two. Oh gosh, I was like having a heart attack.
Ken:I was like this doesn't look familiar at all. Okay, well, it should look pretty familiar. You read it a couple of months ago. Oh, we actually had a big break in the middle of 1 Peter, didn't we?
Steve:Yeah, oh. Yes, it did look familiar, but it didn't look like what I had. Read this week.
Ken:All right. So it's not that you've been reading 1 Peter all week.
Steve:No, All right, it's the other way around. I've been reading 2 Peter 2 all week, all right. It's the other way around. I've been reading 2 Peter 2 all week, all right, but my Bible was on 1 Peter 2.
Ken:All right, you know what I'm going to believe you just because I have no other choice. All right. So why don't we get started If you have not read? As I've always said, if you haven't read the scripture, I highly encourage you to read it before you listen to the podcast, because I think you will get a lot more out of it if you've already read it. So read 2 Peter 2.
Steve:It's perfectly acceptable to listen to us and then go read it and then listen to us again. Wow.
Ken:Do we get two credits for?
Ken:I don't think we get two credits for that because it's one download.
Ken:So but you know if you did it on two different devices.
Steve:Do you get paid if there's more downloads? Ken?
Ken:Sure sure Steve, all the sponsors pay us Speaking of sponsors.
Steve:Thanks to Zoom, we got to keep this under 45 minutes, or do a second call.
Ken:That's true. So why don't we get started? That's right, all right. Well, I'm going to let you read the hard part this time, which is all of it, the whole thing, I don't care. Read whatever you think is a good stopping point. I will say, before you start, I want to read 2 Peter, 1, verse 21, which is the last verse, because I think it really flows into this. Yeah, it definitely is part of it. Why don't you read that just as part of this.
Steve:Okay, you gonna do anything today, ken Nah? Alright, so 2 Peter 1, 121, for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from god as they carried along, as they were carried along by the holy spirit. And now we're in two. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality and because of them, the way of truth will be blasphemed and in their greed, they will exploit you with false words.
Steve:Their condemnation from long ago is not idle and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment, he did not spare the ancient world but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly. If, by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes, he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly. And if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked, for as the righteous man living among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to keep unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, suffering wrong as the wage of their wrongdoing.
Steve:They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions While they feast with you. They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed, accursed children Forsaking the right way. They have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing but was rebuked for his own transgression.
Steve:A speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them, the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved For speaking loud boasts of folly. They entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, for whatever overcomes a person to that he is enslaved For. After they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome. The last state has become worse for them than the first, for it would have been better for them to have known the way of righteousness never to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. But the true proverb says has happened to them the dog returns to its own vomit and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire wow, you really read that whole thing.
Ken:That was a lot.
Steve:That was a lot um there's like words and stuff in there I know that's.
Ken:That's why I mean, that's why we read it, steve, and when I say we, I mean you. All right. So this is. This whole chapter is kind of gloomy.
Steve:Yeah, yeah.
Ken:There is only one section that says verse nine. Then the Lord knows how to you know. Well, let me see it's part of 8. I'll read 7, 8, and 9. And if he rescued righteous lot greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked, for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. So that's really the ray of hope in this whole thing. Did you see any other positive statement?
Steve:So this morning I decided to summarize chapter two. Oh good, and it really came down to two points. There's going to be false teachers out to exploit Christians. God will punish them, but will also rescue the faithful. That's it.
Ken:That's the whole thing. That is the whole thing. That is the whole thing. That is true, alright, are we done? No, I think there's other stuff to talk about. Okay.
Steve:So in the very first verse, it talks about even denying the master who bought them. Who is that? Ken Jesus?
Ken:Very good, yep, give me a question with that answer, please every time.
Steve:What did he purchase them with Jesus? Yes, but how?
Ken:Is there more than just Jesus? Uh-huh Okay, his blood Okay there you go.
Steve:And why did he have to use his blood?
Ken:Well, that is the sacrificial system that God set up for the Jews to sacrifice the perfect lamb and spread his blood on the altar, and the blood signified their removal of sin, or I say signified it was required for their removal of sin. It wasn't just a symbol, as I understand it, yep, but in the end, you know, it really was just a symbol to Jesus coming, maybe.
Steve:Oh, the last sentence of three. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle and their destruction is not asleep. What do you think that?
Ken:their condemnation from long ago is not idle and their destruction is not asleep. Okay, who is they?
Steve:So I believe it's the false prophets and false teachers. I believe they're being considered equivalent.
Ken:Um, but for what is the long ago?
Steve:Oh, um, but for what is the long ago? Oh, they're condemned from long ago, but they haven't stopped doing what they've been doing. They're still active and not asleep.
Ken:That's what I think it means. Um there, but who are you saying that? These false prophets like uh, are you saying there, these false prophets have been alive for a very long time.
Steve:No.
Ken:Are you?
Steve:saying just like in the Old Testament, there were false prophets and those false prophets were condemned. There are still false prophets, but now they're false teachers and they're out to destroy you, but they will also be condemned.
Ken:Yes, okay, yes, then I agree with that. That was a little confusing to me. I thought you might have been saying that these people were alive for thousands of years or hundreds of years. No, okay, then we're on the same page then. All right, so now.
Ken:then he goes on to talk about angels. Yeah, a little bit.
Ken:So, oh man, sorry about that. That was a big old yawn. I probably should have like muted or something. Yeah, good job.
Steve:But I didn't. Now everyone's going to be yawning listening to this and they're going to fall asleep.
Ken:No, it doesn't make them fall asleep, it just makes them yawn. All right, so I think it's interesting. Do you remember in 1 Peter, what Old Testament story did Peter go back to Noah? He went back to Noah and the floods and he said something like is that where he said Jesus preached to those?
Steve:Yes, we had a bit of a debate about what it meant, right?
Ken:We had a bit of a debate about what it meant that he went to hell or to wherever they were and preached to them. Well, I think it's interesting that Peter brings up Noah again, but this time in a different context.
Steve:Yeah, he brings up several different um cases of god condemning, like first, it's the angels that were that sinned, were cast into hell, uh, to be kept until the judgment. We should come back to that, uh. And he also didn't spare the ancient world because he flooded the entire world. Everyone was sinning, except for Noah. He saved Noah and his family, and then Sodom and Gomorrah leveled those two towns, but saved Lot all right, that's when we get to where you already talked about yes.
Ken:So, um, let me ask you this steve, this is something I I never really think about, but, uh, this first sentence in four made me think about this. What are daemons?
Steve:Well, on a Unix or a Linux operating system, there are things that run in the background.
Ken:Yes, but that's spelled differently than the demons here um or it demons in the bible it is, so I don't see the word. No, it's not here but I've always thought of demons as fallen angels. But I I don't think the bible ever says that. And so Well, and it says they're going to be kept there until the judgment. Exactly that means. Whatever my little thought was is obviously wrong. So I don't know what demons are, but I know they're of the devil.
Steve:Where are the stories of angels committing sin?
Ken:You know I get confused between the Bible stories and there are some ancient other stories that I don't remember what they are. But you know, actually this is one reason I don't like biblical fiction stories.
Steve:Because it messes up what you've read, versus it messes exactly.
Ken:It messes up with what I know to be true versus what somebody has some idea of what might be true. Um, so I can't answer the question.
Steve:See, because of stories like that the only thing I can think of is early in Genesis there was talk of I think it was angels marrying women or having children with women, or something like that.
Ken:Well, I don't think it uses the word angels there. Steve calls it, calls the um. It uses a different word, um, but they were coming down to earth, um, it was. It says like back when the whoever's came down to earth and mated with the women or or something that, but it doesn't say the word angels. Some people say those are angels but, it says some other word, so I don't know what that is either, steve.
Steve:And I believe Revelation has some reference similar to this?
Ken:I think so, but I think this is actually probably one of the few references, that is, you know, a concrete reference of fallen angels.
Steve:It must not be important for us to know if it's not that clear to us.
Ken:Well, it's certainly. I don't think it really, you know, does it affect how you should live? Probably not. Yeah, let's see, I had something else I wanted to mention in here. Oh yeah, the very last thing, Verse 10. It says and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Why, why, especially.
Steve:Hmm, why, why, especially so, what is the lust of defiling passion, the lust of defiling passion.
Ken:Well, if you look at another I mean he did just talk about Sodom and Gomorrah True. If you look at, like, the NLT, for example, it says he is especially hard on those who follow their own twisted sexual desire and who despise authority. The NIV, which is probably the most trusted of that type of translation, says this is especially true for those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority to me feels easier, because it's ultimately the authority of God that you're despising.
Steve:You're not willing to submit to his authority over your life. Okay, so I get that You're not willing to submit to his authority over your life. Okay, so I get that the lust of defiling passions feels harder to comprehend. I mean, I guess by committing that lust you've despised his authority, because he says don't do that. But then it's just more of the same, but calling out one specific thing.
Ken:So I think I have a couple of ideas. Um, why, especially? And um, one of them, um, I think, is I'm not sure how important this one is because there's also murder that involves two people, but the twisted desires of the flesh could mean that you are, you are, you know, causing others to sin in your sin. So it also be rapists Maybe that's a good point. Or or pedophiles, which the other person is just a victim. But my, my real thought on this is that it is a sin against society and it has a way to corrupt the society around you. And the reason I say that is I think we see that today, yeah, yeah, and it goes on later to talk about people being proud of what they do.
Steve:And now we're surrounded by it.
Ken:Yes, and parading in broad daylight what the sin they've committed. And that's exactly what we see. So I think it is a corruption of society. So that's just an opinion of why he would say that.
Steve:Yeah, so it talks about how God didn't spare the angels or Sodom and Gomorrah Do you think the false prophets and teachers are beyond saving.
Ken:I don't believe anybody is beyond saving Steve. There was a comma there. Good, Not saving Steve. Yeah, the false prophets might save Steve.
Steve:Probably not. They've got the wrong motives.
Ken:No, but I believe that anybody can be saved. I mean, okay, let's talk about Paul. I mean he was not just against Christianity, he was having them killed. I think he's the best example.
Ken:Yeah, and now you know, and there's one. There's one example. I don't. I'm sorry, I can't quote the scripture, but there's a time when Paul is in prison and there are false prophets teaching with the goal of making him get further punishment, and in his letter he says you know, I don't care as long as Christ be. Oh, shoot. What's the word Multiplied Is? That what he says, something like that. But anyway, as long as he's being taught, as long as Christ is being taught, then I'm good with it.
Steve:To die is gain, but to live is for Christ, or something like that, yeah, but I think those kind of false prophets are not.
Ken:What is being referred to here are the false teachers. These false teachers are teaching the right thing, but for the wrong purpose. These false teachers are teaching the wrong thing for personal gain, yeah, I guess. For personal gain is what it sounds like, yeah, and to fill up their own passions.
Steve:All right, then he talks about Balaam.
Ken:I decided.
Steve:I don't know, was it Saturday? I think it was Saturday. I went back and I read the story of Balaam. It is a very long story. It's like way more than this. It's probably two or three times as long as Peter 2. And do you remember the story?
Ken:of Balaam. I just remember the donkey speaking. That's all I remember.
Steve:All right. So the setting is the Israelites are still in the desert, they're supposed to go into the promised land or whatever, and the Ammonites and the Moabites are afraid of them, and so they try to get Balaam, who's been known as a prophet, to bless them and curse the Israelites. Well, God told Balaam don't go with them. They left and they came back with more money. And this is where it gets a little hard to understand, because at that point God did allow him to go with them, but to only say what he tells him to say. But then God changes his mind while he's on his donkey on the way there, and puts an angel in front of him on the road that only the donkey can see. So the donkey starts wandering off the path and the angel keeps getting in front of him until the donkey, like, rubs Balaam's foot against the rock wall, and that's when he just loses it on his donkey. And then the donkey's given the ability to speak and he says he should kill the donkey. Why do you keep doing this? He says he should kill the donkey. Why do you keep doing this? And then God opened Balaam's eyes to see the angel with the sword, and so the donkey actually saved his life, Although here, when we read in 2 Peter, it sounds like maybe that he may have only been struck crazy if the angel had hit him to where he would just babble nonsense instead of curse or bless.
Steve:But then the Moabites, Balak takes him to a hill, overlooking the Israelites. He says, okay, curse them and Balaam blesses him. He takes him to another hill. Curse them and he blesses them. Takes him to another hill. Same thing four times. He blessed them instead of cursing them and somehow Balak didn't kill Balaam and the Israelites. Think of Balaam as this really bad guy and the references I found said something about it was Balaam's greed that caused him to go, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Ken:Well, that would you know. The fact that it was his greed that made him go would follow with the story here, right With what Peter is saying.
Steve:Fact that it was his greed that made him go would follow with the story here, right with what peter is saying well, and there is a line in there where he said something along the lines of even if you come back with this is the first time they should have even you come back with I don't know truckloads of silver. I won't do it. And apparently they came back with truckloads of silver.
Ken:Really they had trucks back then. Yeah, it was probably just a jeep truck and it broke down on the way off road, yeah, but I bet it broke down. They're always breaking down. Need a Humvee. I don't think those are any more reliable, Steve. Oh, Anyway, so this section is really talking about greed and false prophets teaching for greed, and it says they entice unsteady souls. And who do you think of Steve? What do you think of when you think of this Name? It claim it pastors.
Steve:Yes. Or the ones that say if you just send me a small donation, I will send you this piece of cloth that I have blessed with holy water and you will be healed.
Ken:That kind of crap. Well, that stuff's real, steve. No, it's not. Yeah, I'm just joking. Yeah, these are the whole prosperity gospel. That is not what the Bible teaches, and I don't know how these pastors can even fill up multiple weeks of sermons.
Steve:I don't either.
Ken:I don't think they're using Scripture to do it.
Ken:They can take a few things out of context.
Steve:There's only a couple of rich people in the Bible You've got. Joe David Solomon.
Ken:Uh, you got the rich young ruler Right, who Jesus told to sell everything give it to the poor.
Steve:Then you've got Jesus, who was homeless, paul, who was probably close to penniless, you'd think he was probably very wealthy in the beginning. Maybe yeah, but anyway they're on the road, they're living a rough life, or at least it seems like it.
Ken:Yeah, I mean, I would say Paul was probably, when he was a Pharisee, a Pharisee of Pharisees. I'm sure he had some money, that's true. I think that once he became an apostle, I think he lost his money pretty quick. All right, yeah, all right. So that's yeah. So what about this very last section, waterless springs? How?
Steve:useful is a waterless spring.
Ken:Well, you know, in drought we have those and they're not very useful. They cannot supply you anything at all.
Steve:And when you get one of those days where it's just kind of misty all day but never actually rains, how useful is that?
Ken:Well, as someone who has a rainwater collection system, steve, not very useful, exactly.
Steve:So that's what he's comparing them against.
Ken:So these are useless, useless. So yeah, as a leader, there are people who, if you think, they lead you. I guess one of the analogies in the Bible is that God leads us besides still waters and to green pastures, and this is the opposite of that. Um, they lead us to what looks like might be water. I guess it could say it leads us to, um, a mirage in the desert. Yep, all right. Uh, let's see what else is in here in this last section, speaking loud boast of folly. This is what I was referring to earlier about the social problem with this sensual sins or sexual sins, and you see it all over today. Sorry, I stepped away. I kind of leaned away from my mic for a second. Let's see. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them. So this is talking about now people who have known the truth, accepted Christ and went back to their old bad habits and went back into a life of sin.
Ken:You know what it does not say here. I'm going to say what this does not say here. It does not say but that's all right, because you know they gave their life to Christ and it's all right. They are saved.
Steve:It actually says it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the Holy commandment to live with them.
Ken:They're like a dog returning to its own vomit, which I've seen they do that yeah, you know what my dog does, not only to its own vomit, when it sees one of my cats about the vomit, it will actually put its mouth over the cat's mouth, trying to catch it as it comes out. Are you serious? I am not joking, you know. The floor is the middleman, steve.
Steve:Gotta get fresh. It's best when it's fresh.
Ken:All right, yeah, it's really disgusting. Anyway, it actually does not say that these people have accepted Christ. They have been made aware and they obviously have turned away from their old life, but then they come back because they don't want to give their life to Christ. That's how I see that. So I don't know what else to say here, steve.
Steve:So I don't know what else to say here, steve? I think of this as sort of a warning to try to encourage people not to fall into that trap. Yeah, it doesn't say that they can't come back after this, or that they could do this a hundred times and still come back.
Ken:It doesn't say one way or the other. Actually, it does say it would be better if they never had known, right. So I say let's make that not a Steve. Yep, all right, we're out of time, steve. Oh, all right. Well, that's about right. We're out of time, steve. Oh, all right Well that's about right.
Steve:We're right. At the end, I think we're good, good job.
Ken:Yeah, so next week is second Peter, chapter three. Let's do it All right. And hopefully we'll be in person next week or you'll fix your technical problems.
Ken:All right, Bye guys, Bye the Regular Guys. Bible Study is a Chasm LLC production. All rights reserved.
