The Regular Guys Bible Study
The Regular Guys Bible Study podcast -- RGBS -- is a podcast for regular guys by regular guys (not theologians) studying the Bible together. It's brought to you by a couple of goofy guys who just want to study the Bible together and show you that anyone can read and study the Bible. In fact, you SHOULD read and study the Bible yourself. We're here to show you how we do it, and, hopefully, we can have some fun along the way.
The Regular Guys Bible Study
Romans 3
This episode dives deep into Romans chapter 3, discussing the implications of sin, grace, and God's judgment while maintaining a lighthearted conversation between the hosts. The discussion explores the universal nature of sin, and the importance of faith over the works of the law in the journey of salvation.
• Exploring the challenges of technology as regular guys
• Understanding God's justice and wrath in light of human sin
• Unpacking the universal nature of sin and the need for righteousness
• Recognizing the purpose of the law in revealing sin
• Emphasizing justification by faith for Jews and Gentiles alike
• Reflecting on the Roman Road to Salvation and the importance of grace
• Encouraging a mindset shift towards hardships and God's sovereignty
You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your hosts, Ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together.
Speaker 2:Not theologians.
Speaker 1:All right, Steve, you know what you look like. You have a regular guy problem.
Speaker 2:I do so. The headphone cord is one of those coily cords, like an old telephone cord.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like this.
Speaker 2:Yep, and everyone listening can see that. Yeah, and the USB cord, of course, is just a straight wire. Well, the two get tangled. It's nearly impossible to tell which way to take the wire to get it untangled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I've had that problem before when I was an idiot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I've had that problem before, when I was an idiot, and then I decided you know, I wouldn't be an idiot anymore, and now I don't have that problem. No, no, I think you are still an idiot.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, you know what I don't have? Maybe it's just because the cord doesn't cross over a USB cable anymore, so maybe I am still an idiot. All right, at any rate, we are on Romans, chapter three today, steve.
Speaker 2:We are, and it's good stuff. Yeah, and it's good. It's good stuff, Ken.
Speaker 1:It is good stuff.
Speaker 2:It's good stuff.
Speaker 1:It's good stuff.
Speaker 2:Are you type stuff?
Speaker 1:Type stuff. It's good type stuff. Yes, it is. It is good type stuff. You know what? Let me set my. Do not disturb.
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 1:So were you being sarcastic. I don't know what are you being sarcastic? Are you excited about what you've read in Romans, chapter three?
Speaker 2:I have a confession that you know. Normally I try to read every day of the week, except for, you know, church Day, sunday, and our group day, wednesday. I missed two days. This week.
Speaker 1:So how many times have you read Romans, chapter 3, steve?
Speaker 2:That sounds like maybe twice, that would be accurate. Maybe three times, all right.
Speaker 1:All right, so so you.
Speaker 2:Definitely at least twice.
Speaker 1:All right Well um In the last week.
Speaker 2:I've read it many more times than that.
Speaker 1:I think, then, today more than any other day, it might be important for our listeners to pause and read Romans, chapter 3 on their own, so they can have more thoughts on their own than what we're bringing to the table.
Speaker 2:Oh, did you have a similar problem?
Speaker 1:I did not. But you know, I don't know if you noticed this, steve, but I'm kind of the moderator of this thing and I put a lot on your plate because I have you read and then I'll ask questions what do you think, steve? And acting like I know things and I just have you come up with stuff.
Speaker 2:I almost think that's a compliment, Ken.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, okay, I take it all back. It's not intended to be a compliment, it's just the way things work and you know, I kind of like the way it's working because it's less work on my part.
Speaker 2:You're going to have a lot to answer for today.
Speaker 1:And I think you're really smart, aren't you?
Speaker 2:I might have been once.
Speaker 1:You were in high school.
Speaker 2:I heard yeah, yeah, I did well in high school.
Speaker 1:All right, so you know you got a leg up on me there, steve. So you know what I was more of a class clown in high school, and I probably wasn't even that good at that.
Speaker 2:You know, I think I'm more of a class clown now than I was in high school.
Speaker 1:I can believe that. I certainly can believe that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because your personality today I would not think you got straight A's in high school think you got straight A's in high school.
Speaker 2:I was often told that someone's going to kick my butt because of my mouth? Okay, when I was a kid I was told that, yeah, so I don't think it's changed much.
Speaker 1:All right Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, but I've never gotten my butt kicked.
Speaker 1:Let's move on and let's go ahead and read Romans, chapter three. And, les, is there something we should catch up on for Romans, chapter two? I guess you know, what we just talked about in Romans, chapter two, or Paul talked about, was being a Jew, what it means to be a Jew. And you know, at first you think, oh, this doesn't really apply to me because I'm not a Jew, or I mean, you might be a Jew, listener.
Speaker 2:No, as far as I know, Not you.
Speaker 1:Steve, you listener might be a Jew.
Speaker 2:I am Steve.
Speaker 1:You, steve, I can yes.
Speaker 2:I know you can Gosh oh.
Speaker 1:Steve, I can. Yes, I know you can, oh gosh you're painful, never gets old. Okay, so, steve, why don't you go ahead and read the first section in Romans, chapter 3.
Speaker 2:That would be verse 1 through 8.
Speaker 2:Very well then. What advantage then is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision Much in every way? First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God's faithfulness? Excuse me, not at all. Let God be true and every human being a liar, as it is written, so that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge. But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing His wrath on us? I am using a human argument? Certainly not. If that were so, how could God judge the world, someone might argue. If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases His glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner? Why not say, as some slanderously claim, that we say Let us do evil, that good may result? Their condemnation is just Okay.
Speaker 1:Steve, before we delve into what this is saying, I started snickering while you were reading because it just dawned on me that you do this impression of the little guy in the Princess Bride Conceivable so when he's doing the thing about the poisonous drinks in that movie.
Speaker 2:Clearly.
Speaker 1:I can't choose the wine in front of you. Okay, if you read this With that voice, it's kind of similar. So I don't think I could do the whole thing. I know, I know, I know. Anyway, it made me snicker.
Speaker 2:What advantage then Is there at being a Jew? You know that guy I think is Jewish, oh, yeah, anyway, it made me snicker. What advantage then is there at being a Jew? You know that guy I think is Jewish, oh, yeah, I think he is. All right.
Speaker 1:Never trust a Sicilian when death is on the line. You have watched that movie way too many times, obviously. Oh, yeah, okay, okay, where were we All right? So he's talking about you know. He's saying, you know putting out arguments like is there any advantage to being a Jew? And he says, like in verse five but if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is?
Speaker 2:unjust in bringing his wrath on us. And then, in parentheses, it says I am using a human argument.
Speaker 1:He's saying basically, I'm not really arguing this point, I'm just saying this is what people might say. And he says certainly not. If that were so, how could God judge the world? So it looks like people are claiming this is my guess. Okay. People are claiming that Paul is saying oh, you're saying that people just have to believe in Jesus and then they can sin all they want, and that's good, because the more they sin, the more God forgives their sin. Yeah, the more grace they receive and he's saying that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:So that's what I take from this whole section, basically well, yes, that is the majority of it, but you didn't touch on what is the advantage of being a jew, and I feel like you know he says much in every way. And then he says first of all, yeah, the jews have been entrusted with the very words of god. Okay, okay, great, they were given the Bible, the Old Testament and the New. What's the second of all?
Speaker 1:Okay, first of all, the Jews have been entrusted. Okay.
Speaker 2:There's not a second of all. Well, unless it's way further down. Oh yeah, it could be down further, because it says later I do see, in nine do we have any advantage? But now I don't know. Hmm, what do you think of this? Is God unjust for bringing His wrath on us? You know, you hear a lot of people say well, if God is so good, why do people have cancer? Or you know, why this, why that, why is there war? Why is there evil? What do you think of that?
Speaker 1:ken. Well, there is the whole fall of man thing that happened um this. Okay, this is just my take. Okay, so this is. I'm not quoting scripture here, I'm just going to say.
Speaker 2:This is from the book of Strickland this is from me.
Speaker 1:First of all, does it mean anything if you create something and make it follow you and obey, do you feel love from that created thing? You create something and make it follow you and obey, do you?
Speaker 2:feel love from that created thing. So the first thing that came to mind were my dogs, your dogs, who do not do what I say Exactly, but they do show love. When I come home, they do. But they have say Exactly, but they do show love. When I come home, they do.
Speaker 1:But they have their own will obviously.
Speaker 2:They absolutely have their own will, but I didn't create them, no, and if they were little robots that just followed me around and did everything, there's not much value in that you know there might be some value, but there's not emotion other than maybe pride in what you created that could do that stuff Not not love.
Speaker 1:And so we have free will so that we can choose to love God and serve God. How much more meaningful is that to God when we love and obey than it would be if we had no choice, right? So what is the question I'm answering? I have no idea what I'm answering now.
Speaker 2:Is God unjust for bringing his wrath upon us?
Speaker 1:Ah, ah, no, Okay, you mentioned your dogs, right?
Speaker 2:No, okay, you mentioned your dogs right, your dogs if they tear up the couch. If a dog gets on the couch and starts digging a hole in it, what are you going to do, steve? I am going to smack it in the butt and tell it to get off the couch. Exactly.
Speaker 1:That's your wrath on the dog, and also it's teaching. It's a teaching lesson to the dog. God does these same things to us right.
Speaker 2:Is that why my rear end is so sore?
Speaker 1:Yes, because you don't obey God. But there's another side to this, steve, that we don't understand and I don't understand. But it's God's sovereignty right, sovereignty right. So God, you know, says that all things happen for the good for those who love.
Speaker 2:Him and are called according to His purpose.
Speaker 1:That love Him and are called according to His purpose. So, steve, do you feel like you are one of those people?
Speaker 2:No, I like to think that.
Speaker 1:I am Okay, I think you are, I think I am.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I don't always know what that purpose is.
Speaker 1:Yes, but okay, steve, so you said that you think you are right, mm-hmm, has anything bad happened to you? Absolutely All right. So you know, I actually talked about this in our life group the other day and there was a little disagreement with what I say, with what I believe, but that's okay. We don't have to all agree. It's not theology here. This is just something that I have come to and it helps me that I no longer. I think I need to quit thinking of hardships that happen in my life as bad, because are they bad? They are hard, they are difficult, but are they bad? And my take is that I think bad is the wrong term. They are a thing that might be very difficult for me, that might be very difficult for me, but God has a good purpose for it. You can even and, and you know, you can even look at Job and say okay, you know, that was not necessarily God's will, that was God's allowable will right, it wasn't that Satan came and asked and he said yes.
Speaker 2:Now you can say.
Speaker 1:some people like to say that was bad for Job and the truth is it was really hard for Job, but what good purpose came out of it. I can tell you the good purpose that came out of it, I wish you would the book of Job Right, it is part of our Bible today.
Speaker 2:I mean he was blessed in the end, yes, but for him personally, I mean I get what you're saying. His suffering was good for our benefit, right, but for him personally, I doubt that all the blessings he got afterward made up for all the hardship he suffered.
Speaker 1:All right, here's another thing I think you should quit thinking. You got to change your mindset, steve. Here Of Job's eternal life, how much of that time did he suffer? Mathematics would say near zero. Well, it would be zero because of the infinite no-transcript. Now, okay, I'm talking that's, that's it's wisdom. I think it is wise, but I'm talking like, oh, this is so simple, this is the way I do it, because it's so simple, I just say you, okay, god, you know, I, you know, I would not be surprised, you know, if, because the way things go these days and you and I are getting older, we know people who have cancer. You know, there's a good chance one of us will have cancer, my wife might have cancer, you know, one of us can have one of these really hard things happen. I would, first of all, I don't think it would be that beneficial right away if you were to come to me and say, ken, you know what? I think it's all for the good, because what the Bible says, you would really appreciate that if I did.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, Steve. I would say thank you for getting my mind straight. I would tell you that I mean the Bible says to mourn with those who mourn, right, and so comfort those who are in need or hurting, and so that would be the very first thing to do. So I'm not telling you go to go find people who are hurting and say it's just a little bit compared to eternity and it's all for good. So yay, god. I'm not saying do that. I'm saying we go love on people and try our best, when we are hurting, to recognize God's sovereignty in it. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I think you're onto something there, but you know he's talking about judgment here.
Speaker 1:Yes, why do you suppose God judges?
Speaker 2:at all. Well, you know, I do have an answer.
Speaker 1:if you don't have one, well, okay, go ahead, let me hear your answer. I kind of have an answer.
Speaker 2:So God is holy right, which basically means he cannot sin and is righteous. He cannot sin and is righteous. I think if he didn't judge, there would be no right or wrong. Right, I mean, there would be no line in the sand of what is right and what is wrong, because all are welcome into the kingdom of heaven. Yes, so, but he wants us to do right and not harm one another, not be evil, because he loves us, he wants what's best for us and to make up for our screw-ups, he sent Jesus to die for us. He took on the punishment Right.
Speaker 1:So it does say in Romans that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I'm not sure exactly where that is. It's coming right up. Okay, is that today?
Speaker 2:Well, okay, I don't think that's today. No one is righteous. Oh, I'm reading in a version I'm not familiar with, so basically my point is the right and wrong thing is for us to blatantly sin more, as some are suggesting in this passage, is basically to be ungrateful for what he has done for us. Yes, I think.
Speaker 1:So I want you to stop sinning, ken um, you're grieving the holy spirit. Uh, yeah, I know um, and I do sin occasionally, steve um, as do you, because we are not perfect, which is why we still need Jesus. Our salvation through Christ is not a one-time event.
Speaker 2:Make up the cross daily. That's right. Anyway, that's all I have for that first section All right.
Speaker 1:Well, why don't we go to the next section? Excuse me, I can read this. This is Romans 3, 9 through 20. And most of it is a quote. Do you know where this quote comes from, steve?
Speaker 2:I can find out.
Speaker 1:Find it out. Is it Psalms? It looks like it might come from Psalms, psalm 36. All right, so Romans 3, verse 9 through 20. What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all, for we have already made the change the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written, and here's the quote, there is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away. They have, together become worthless. There is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves. Their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood. Ruin and misery mark their ways and the way of peace. They do not know there is no fear of God before their eyes. That's the end of the law. Rather, through the law, we become conscious of our sin. Yep, okay.
Speaker 2:You know my online Bible here has little footnote things all over that quote and it seems like maybe he's pulling from various psalms I was, I was gonna say that same thing.
Speaker 1:it's, I think, that first section, uh, like the first two verses of that of the quote come from one, and then he starts pulling pieces out of different psalms, and and not always psalms like there's some things out of Isaiah as well, and the way to peace? They do not know, there is no fear of God before their eyes, anyway. So what does this say? Is there anything we can take from this section?
Speaker 2:well, basically that there is no one.
Speaker 1:That is righteous right, we are not good. There is no one that's good enough well, there's one.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, there was one. Well, still.
Speaker 1:Still is, but he's no longer on earth in bodily form that I'm aware of.
Speaker 2:And I say you're making some mighty big claims you can't back up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I've heard it before that and I wish I knew my Bible better, but you know I don't. But I think there are other scripture that talks about the law as being really it's what reveals our sin, or the law was given. I wish I really wish I was smarter, but the law was given. I do too. The law was given to the Jews to reveal their sin because they cannot obey the law of God.
Speaker 2:So when it speaks of law here, are we talking just the Ten Commandments? Are we talking the whole 600, whatever laws of? I don't know how many it is, but's a lot didn't I ask that last time? I think you did I still don't know steve.
Speaker 1:I think, um, I think you know steve. Uh, anyway, I think, um, there's references to law. In fact, last week I think there was a reference to a law that's outside of the Ten Commandments. So I think it's more than the Ten Commandments, but not necessarily the. How many thousands of little nuances that the Jews came up with, nuances that the Jews came up with.
Speaker 2:Do you think we should learn and memorize all those laws to try to keep them? No, I mean, the easy ones to reject are the sacrifices.
Speaker 1:Does this tell us we should do that, Steve? I don't think so. No, it does not say we should do that as Gentiles. But you know what it does say that if we follow the law, if we follow some part of the law, naturally, then it has become a law for us. So I don't know what that means, but that's what it says.
Speaker 2:All right, don't eat shellfish.
Speaker 1:That's, I think, don't be so, shellfish Steve. Anyway, that section is really saying that we've all sinned.
Speaker 2:And the law reveals the sin yes, or makes us aware of it yes.
Speaker 1:It says rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. We were sinning all along. Now we know we sin, all right.
Speaker 2:You ready to go on to that? You think I should go on?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Unless you want to talk about that more, but I think it's pretty straightforward that part I'm good, all right.
Speaker 2:But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the law and the. There it is. I was going to say that's what you were looking for. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, and all are justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement through the shedding of His blood to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness because, in His forbearance, he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished. He did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Speaker 2:Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith, for we maintain that a person is justified by faith, apart from the works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we then nullify the law by this faith?
Speaker 1:Okay, there's a lot of words there. There are a lot of words there. What does he mean? I just want to talk about that very last line. Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all. Rather, we uphold the law.
Speaker 2:So I think what he's saying is so we've basically surpassed the law by having faith in Christ, who fulfilled the law in our place.
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 2:what it says, I don't read that Really.
Speaker 1:Where do you read that?
Speaker 2:Are we?
Speaker 1:maintained that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. We're justified apart from the law, apart from the works of the law, right?
Speaker 2:And he's saying do we nullify the law by this faith? Not at all. Rather, we uphold the law. So, because we have faith in the one that upheld the law, we are also upholding the law, but we are set free. I don't know where that is in the New Testament, but we are set free. I don't know where that is in the New Testament, but we are set free from the law to some extent, because it's been paid for us.
Speaker 1:Well as a Gentile. We've never had the Jewish law right.
Speaker 2:I mean Don't we have it now?
Speaker 1:Okay, well, sort of, but let me say what I think this is talking about. So when it says Well, let me ask this Through the Jewish law, how are people forgiven of sin?
Speaker 2:They have to perform sacrifices, right and atonement.
Speaker 1:Yes, All right so.
Speaker 2:Depends on what they're looking for forgiveness from which sacrifice they have to do.
Speaker 1:Right, but there is Right. There is, that's right. Right, that's right. But there's the spotless lamb sacrifice, right? I don't know exactly how that is, but that is what Jesus is a sheep. This is a truly perfect sacrifice. And so when it is saying do we nullify the law by this faith? Not at all. Rather, we uphold the law, our faith in Jesus and the sacrifice of his blood that cleanses us from sin, I think, is that upholding the law. I mean, that's what the law all pointed to right, this forgiveness of sin through a perfect sacrifice, and that's what I think this is referring to. That's why we uphold the law, by having faith in Jesus. Isn't that what I said? You said it in some stupid way, or something. Isn't that what I said? You said it in some stupid way or something. Yeah, probably, I don't know. Maybe you did, I didn't, you weren't listening. No, I was listening.
Speaker 2:I just didn't verbalize it well.
Speaker 1:It wasn't communicated well for me anyway, and maybe other people got it and people are like confused by what I said.
Speaker 2:So I don't know. Well, you know, because we both presented similar things different ways. Maybe more people got it.
Speaker 1:Maybe so, maybe so, steve, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah, it says 25, god presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement. It says 25, god presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, and that, I think, must be, the spotted lamb or spotless spotted lamb, the spotless lamb sacrifice or something. Yeah, I don't know the Jewish law very well, steve. When I say very well, I mean pretty much not at all. Well, I mean pretty much not at all.
Speaker 2:Well, there are cases of Old Testament stories where someone brings their second best to the sacrifice and they're held accountable for that. That's true, which I believe would be Cain.
Speaker 1:That's right. Cain and Abel I mean Cain is the one that brought the not as good. So let me ask you've heard of the Roman road to salvation? You mentioned it last week. I mentioned it multiple times and I would say if you haven't looked it up, you should look it up, because it's really cool how Paul presents the gospel in Romans and these are like shortcuts. You can read all of Romans and get it.
Speaker 2:It's like the chutes and ladders. Version of Romans.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and it starts off with this all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and so that's why we need something to erase that sin. You know, you said, let's see. One thing you said was why should God judge? It is written somewhere in the Bible that God cannot be in the presence of sin, or something like that. Yeah, somewhere. And so we must be forgiven. We've got to be not just forgiven, but I mean forgiven. I don't know, it doesn't have the same meaning to me as like completely wiped clean of our sin, so we cannot walk into the presence of God just being a ratty forgiven sinner is what I'm saying? Like we walk in.
Speaker 2:The way Adam and Eve used to walk with him prior to the sin Naked. And then he kicked him out.
Speaker 1:Yes, but you know, we must be pure before God and the only way we can get that way is through the blood of Jesus, the atoning blood of Jesus that cleanses us, the atoning blood of Jesus that cleanses us. So that's my little preaching. Preach it, brother. Oh, that's all I got. That's all I've got. I think we're done. Are we done? Chapter four is next All right, so chapter three is done.
Speaker 1:Make sure you read chapter four, and if you don't, you know that's on you, dude. All right, talk to you later, guys, or do that? It's regular guys, not regular gals. Maybe some gals like to hear regular. Yeah, maybe the Regular Guys. Bible Study is a Chasm LLC production. All rights reserved.
Speaker 2:Peace out I forgot to promote your website.
Speaker 1:Oh, eh, I'll, I'll, I'll I'll production. All rights reserved. Peace out to promote your website. Oh yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll. We do have a place where you can comment now, um, you know, I whatever, blah, blah, blah. We will, I'll. I'll include it somewhere. Okay, talk to you later. Bye.
