The Regular Guys Bible Study
The Regular Guys Bible Study podcast -- RGBS -- is a podcast for regular guys by regular guys (not theologians) studying the Bible together. It's brought to you by a couple of goofy guys who just want to study the Bible together and show you that anyone can read and study the Bible. In fact, you SHOULD read and study the Bible yourself. We're here to show you how we do it, and, hopefully, we can have some fun along the way.
The Regular Guys Bible Study
Romans 8:18-39
We explore Romans 8:18-39, unpacking how our present sufferings cannot compare to the glory that awaits us, and examining the biblical concept of hope as confident expectation rather than wishful thinking.
• Creation itself groans like childbirth pains, awaiting liberation from decay
• The Holy Spirit intercedes for us with wordless groans when we don't know how to pray
• God works all things together for good for those who love Him
• The challenging concept of predestination exists alongside human free will
• Nothing can separate believers from God's love – not hardship, persecution, or death
• We are "more than conquerors" through Christ who loved us
• Troubles in this life don't mean God has abandoned us
Join us next week as we tackle Romans chapter 9. Don't forget to share your thoughts on predestination and God's sovereignty at http://theregularguysbs.kas-m.com !
you are listening to the regular guys bible study podcast, the bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your host, ken and steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together.
Speaker 2:Not theologians.
Speaker 1:All right, Steve. Well, we've had a long break because you've been on vacation forever.
Speaker 2:I have and I went to Ireland.
Speaker 1:It was very beautiful yeah, was it, the uh, was it, was it all green, even though it's still kind of wintry they don't really have a big fluctuation in temperatures. They rarely freeze I've heard that northern ireland it they can get snow up there, but the normal Ireland that's called just Ireland, it rarely freezes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there were a lot of flowers and stuff blooming, not everything.
Speaker 1:Was it significantly colder and less green in Northern Ireland?
Speaker 2:Oddly, no, it was warmer up there. When we went we had mostly 50s in southern ireland and when we went up there we had it was probably because the sun came out and got around 60.
Speaker 1:But I thought the sun will come out tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, there were.
Speaker 2:There were a little, a lot of uh, red-headed females, oh yeah that's I.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know who I was imitating, but you're right. Uh, did you see any little um little shamrock people, any leprechauns?
Speaker 2:that's the people I'm talking.
Speaker 1:Leprechauns that's the people I'm talking about, leprechauns.
Speaker 2:I did. I'll have to show you a picture. But I have a question who is your neighbor?
Speaker 1:Who is my neighbor? Everybody is my neighbor. Who I come in contact with, steveve, you know why I'm asking that.
Speaker 2:No, because I've been up since 3 40 am, because I took my air my, my neighbor to the airport oh for a 5 30 flight or something man, that's nice, nice guy right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we made our daughter do that just a few weeks ago. All right, guys. Well, I'm sorry for the foolish banter, I'm not. Well, the foolish banter. That's not even related to the Scripture and it's taken us a long time to get there. All right, we are on romans, chapter 8, the second half, 18 through the end, which is uh, 39. So 18 romans chapter 8, 18 through 39. If you have not read it, just pause. Pause this now. Go read it. Unpause. Welcome back. All right, so do you remember what we read in Romans, chapter 8, steve.
Speaker 2:No, not really I don't either.
Speaker 1:I don't either. That's okay. You know what, if they're listening to the podcast, they will remember, because it's only well I don't know Listen to it again, all right. Well, let's get started and let's go ahead and read um 18 through 30, and we're we're reading in the NIV Go ahead. Oh, you want me to do it, I can do that, all right. Did you call me a goat head?
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's really rude, but hey, if the head fits.
Speaker 1:If the hat fits, wear it. Okay, here we go. Romans, chapter eight, verse 18.
Speaker 1:I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us, for the creation waits in eager expectations for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, its bondage to decay, and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning, as in the pains of childbirth, right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies, for in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
Speaker 1:In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans, and he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit. Because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God, and we know that in all things, god works for good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose, to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called, those he called, he also justified, those he justified, he also glorified, also glorified, that's it.
Speaker 2:You know, Romans 8, 28 is one of those verses that's often memorized and repeated.
Speaker 1:I know, and it makes me mad, that I messed up on that verse multiple times. Even in my final thing, I left out the word the, which is really strange because, do you know, my note that I put on here is people who know me would say that is probably one of my life verses, because I use it all the time, and I mean for my own self, um so to remind yourself that when you're in the, the crud that it that is a big plan, it's all good yeah, it's it's all good it's all good, it's not really crud um, it's just a learning moment, a teaching feels like crud it feels like it hurts.
Speaker 1:Yes, it hurts. It feels crappy. It makes me sad. Steve just made a nerdy thing where he pushed his glasses up with his finger and it's really stupid. Anyway, I apologize for that, steve. My friends keep telling me I'm too mean to you.
Speaker 2:You are too mean to me and you're ugly too.
Speaker 1:I am ugly to you as well. Yes, I am mean and ugly to you Anyway. But yeah, that verse. I know it's at the end of what we read, but we can talk about it now and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Now, have you been called according to God's purpose, steve?
Speaker 2:I believe so.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was really searching for a much more positive answer than that, but I would think, yes, I'm going to say yes for me, that I have been called according to his purpose, and so I believe that everything happens in my life is for the good. And it does not say know that all things, that in all things they are good. It does not say that it says God works for the good and this is Rome.
Speaker 2:This is where Christians get burned in the Colosseum and fed to lions. When you're out there getting burned, you're going to have to hang on real tight to this verse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not going to be less painful because of this verse, but you know you're going to be on the other side real quick. Yeah, all right. So let's go on up to the top of this thing. We should action uh, do you have any notes you would like to talk about?
Speaker 2:I do, okay, okay. So for the creation waits an eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. What do you think it means for the children of God to be revealed? It's not polite to fart on the microphone.
Speaker 1:I don't really know the answer to that, steve. You know what? I was so focused on something else that I just glossed over that. What does it mean? Do you know what it means? I don't. Okay, this is what I think it means God's children will be revealed at the resurrection, when we are resurrected right At the second coming of Christ, when he comes to take us.
Speaker 2:I think that makes sense with verse 18.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Because it says I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
Speaker 1:Yes, and actually I think it works well with the next paragraph as well, and actually I think it works well with the next paragraph as well, where the creation so my notes are about the creation. I have some about the creation as well, about this, and I never noticed this before. Um, this is sort of like paul talking about mother nature. Do? You realize that way, I mean he's talking, except, you know, people talk about mother nature, capitalized as a, as a god of some type.
Speaker 1:And he calls about the creation an it. He calls it an it where it's more like the creation. Well, the creation is everything it's people, it's earth, it is the planets, it's's the animals, it's the waters, everything. And and so I think of that as people today calling mother nature, talking about mother nature, um, and I also look at, um, how the uh 22. We know that the whole creation has been groaning, as in the pains of childbirth, right up to the present time, and so, if you think about the problems that our environment has, I don't know what your thoughts are on global warming. I believe global warming is real, because I live in a place that did not used to be as hot as it is Now. Do I know that humans caused it?
Speaker 2:I don't know if humans have caused it, um, but I know that global warming is real I agree, but I would go further to say the earth has been hotter than this before and has had far more CO2 than this before, and all the doom and gloom naysayers is more about politics than it is about real concern for the earth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can believe that, and yes, there have been. I mean, we've had ice ages before here, where it was much colder. That would be a bad thing too. It would actually be worse. I don't know. Maybe I don't know, but the point is, the creation is going through struggles. Even our earth is going through struggles. Even our earth is going through struggles. And people you know people are part of that creation, the nations and everything. And it seems like this world is in. There's not a world war going on, but there is world turmoil going on, um, and there has been for a while now. So there's always war somewhere. There's always wars. There's not a what we call a world war going on, um, but there it, the world is in a, in a real tough place.
Speaker 2:But you went beyond. I was still in the first paragraph. I'm sorry, we can go back. It's okay.
Speaker 1:I just started talking and sometimes you know me.
Speaker 2:I just like to talk.
Speaker 1:I just like to talk people.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you need to just shut up. Thank you continue.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll cry over here in the corner back in 21. I have a couple things here. First of all, it says liberated from the bondage to decay, and that made me think well, does that mean we won't see the changing colors of leaves in the fall? Because that's really just decay. It's annual decay, which I don't really expect an answer. It's more of a thought rather than a real question. But then it goes on to say and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. So is that quote freedom and glory, end quote. Or is it freedom and quote glory of the children, end quote.
Speaker 1:I think it's freedom and glory of the children of God. That's what I think. But I think, remember you know it's funny, it's like we are supposed to just know this stuff already when he talks about the creation will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into freedom, and brought into this freedom and glory. So we know that this life on Earth is bound for destruction. In fact, we know this earth is bound for destruction from the scripture and there will be a new heaven and a new earth, right.
Speaker 2:Science even agrees with that. The first part oh, that yes, the destruction of the planet is like what I don't know, 10 billion years away, or something.
Speaker 1:A long time, yeah, time yeah, the sun goes supernova yeah, I think, um, I think it's long before that, but um, uh, but so, anyway, this is saying um, you know, to be liberated from that decay, I think, is having the earth brought in, the new earth and the new heaven brought in, with the freedom and glory of the children of God. How does that sound? Does that make sense? Sure.
Speaker 2:It sounds like you're talking.
Speaker 1:Do you disagree, sure.
Speaker 2:It sounds like you're talking Do you disagree? No.
Speaker 1:All right, no, no, no, all right. Well, that's the first paragraph, steve.
Speaker 2:And I jumped ahead to the next paragraph In 22,. I thought it was fitting and interesting that he compared, as in the pains of childbirth, which was something that God gave Eve after they sinned, the pains of childbirth as a result of the original sin.
Speaker 1:The pains of childbirth as a result of the original sin.
Speaker 2:That's true, and that also started the destruction and the requirement for a new heaven and new earth.
Speaker 1:All of that started with that. That's true. Good point, Steve.
Speaker 2:It seems like you paid more attention to stuff. We're almost through my notes, you can take that back.
Speaker 1:Uh, okay, I like it steve, what else? What else you got? Um? Well, he talks about hope, um, and you know, I'll read the this part again, for in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently so I disagree with that last sentence.
Speaker 2:We are not patient.
Speaker 1:You know what? What I think he's saying is we, we should wait for it patiently. And I liken this to you know, we both work at a company, steve that they tell us in November, you're, you're getting this raise right and and so we say yay. And then they, they say, and you will get it in april. And then you go, what, what? And so we, we have this hope for this raise from november. That was told to us in November that we will receive it in April. And the reason I'm using that as an example, you know, actually that's a very negative thing about our work, but it's, you know, the hope. When the Bible talks about hope, it is not the same kind of hope that we talk about in our culture today. You know, I hope I win the lottery.
Speaker 2:I hope it rains today. It never will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but this hope is a positive hope, not a wishful thinking hope, but it's a. You know they use the phrase my hope is in this. You know meaning. That's where I put everything. My hope is in salvation through Christ. So where was I going with this, steve?
Speaker 2:I think you were trying to make the point that it's something a bit more concrete than wishful thinking.
Speaker 1:It's more concrete the way we think of that hope. It should be a more concrete hope and then we should wait for it patiently, and that is the tough part, just like the raise thing at our work, right, that's waiting for that patiently is frustrating, but we are to wait for it patiently because we know it will come.
Speaker 2:And it feels totally arbitrary.
Speaker 1:Are we talking about salvation here?
Speaker 2:We're talking about the race.
Speaker 1:Okay, I quit talking about the race thing, steve.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:What else you?
Speaker 1:got, let's see.
Speaker 2:All right, then we talked about we haven't talked about the spirit interceding for us through wordless groans.
Speaker 1:Ah yeah, I was actually going to skip that part. You know, I've often wondered what this means and I sometimes use this scripture in my own prayer and I don't know if it's right or not. But there are some times, steve, that I don't know how to pray for something that happens to me a lot. Especially when an older person is sick and dying and I mean I don't want to pray for healing, you know. I mean it's time for this person to leave the earth.
Speaker 2:It's hard for those left behind, but better for them to pass on.
Speaker 1:It's hard for me to pray. God, take this person home, especially if I'm not positive. They're a believer, right? I had no trouble praying for my father in the end that God please take him home, because there was no doubt in my mind. But there are other people that they show up on a prayer list somewhere and I don't know how to pray. And so I ask I think it was either this morning or yesterday morning in my prayer time I saw one of these and I said God, let the Holy Spirit groan for me because I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say.
Speaker 2:Because I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say, but I honestly don't know if that's scripturally sound or is that a cop out? I don't know what to do, but what do you think? I would say that that is perfectly acceptable, because you're actually doing the effort of praying in the first place. God already knows.
Speaker 1:That's true, and I think the Holy Spirit is going to groan, have wordless groans for me, regardless, if I ask him honestly.
Speaker 2:Yep, so I, so I think so All right, what else you got?
Speaker 1:All right, well, let's. We talked about the. You know God works 828. Yeah, all things for the good of those who love him and have been called to according to his purpose, um are we going to go into the whole predestination thing?
Speaker 1:um well, I mean, why not? I mean, it says it right. So so 29 and 30, let me read those again. For those, god foreknew, he also predestined. Now, he said he foreknew. For those, god foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called those he called. He also justified those he justified he also glorified.
Speaker 2:I feel like that last part he also glorified should maybe be in like the future tense he will also glorify, yeah maybe so yeah, in the end they are glorified Also for justify, I think, the justifies at the end.
Speaker 1:So here's the thing, steve I believe fully in the sovereignty of God, that he can do all things, but I also fully believe in our free will. Now, that is a quandary, and I don't know how to rectify that. Now I will say the way this word let's read the very first part of 29. It says for those, god foreknew, he also predestined. Now, that does not say God predestined everybody.
Speaker 2:No, Quite. To the contrary, I would suggest Well who are those that God foreknew? People that are written in the book of life.
Speaker 1:Is it only those written in the book of life?
Speaker 2:Yes, God foreknows everything. But here it says for those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. Those are Christians. So, yes, those are the only ones he wrote into. Well, I think they're the only ones he wrote into the Book of Life.
Speaker 1:All right, I agree with you, and I think those are also into. Well, I think they're the only ones he wrote into the book of life. All right, I believe I agree with you, and I think those are also the those who have been called according to his purpose, because this follows immediately after that, it's like, for those who've been called according to his purpose, for those who god knew foreknew, I, I mean, it's those people, and you can't become a Christian unless God is calling you to be one.
Speaker 2:I don't think you can.
Speaker 1:You don't think I can. I am a can.
Speaker 2:No, I know you can.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I know I Steve.
Speaker 1:I know you, steve, yes, but I know I, steve. Okay, I say this like I'm so positive and sure, but I know that God is sovereign and knows all things before they occur, and I know from the Scripture that he predestined us. But I also believe that we have free will to choose. Now, that's the hard part. That is the hard part, right, because those two things don't go together in my, in our human thinking. I'm, I'm.
Speaker 2:My only hope is that but if he already knew, if he knew in advance that you're going to choose, I mean, that's the for new part is that there is. But if he already knew, if he knew in advance that you're going to choose, I mean that's the for new part, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:Let's go on.
Speaker 1:It's a struggle. You know what guys? We haven't talked much about where you can comment, but I would love to get comments on this. If you have thoughts on this, I would love to hear your comments. And that is at where is it at? Steve, I don't know. You want me to let me gosh. This is embarrassing. I don't even know where my own website is. All right, this is embarrassing. I don't even know where my own website is All right.
Speaker 2:That is bad.
Speaker 1:It is theregularguysbskas-mcom that's pronounced chasm. By the way, that's my hosted site, theregularguysbschasmcom. K-a-s-mcom. Um, you can. You can actually download all the uh podcasts there and you can comment on them. So when I say all I have not backdated, so it starts with Romans. But I might get back to backdating some of those others. All right, but I'd love to hear the comments.
Speaker 2:Yeah Shall, I read the next section.
Speaker 1:Yes, you shall.
Speaker 2:What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who, then, is the one who condemns? No one.
Speaker 2:Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life, is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution, or famine or nakedness, or danger or sword, as it is written, for your sake, we face death all day long. We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. No, in all things, we are more than conquerors, through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus, our Lord.
Speaker 1:And I think it's really cool how chapter 8 of Romans has so many verses that you'll see on people's walls, it's like just amazing stuff. I don't often see on people's walls. It's like just amazing stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't often see verse 36 on walls.
Speaker 1:Let's see 36. For your sake.
Speaker 2:We face death all day long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are considered sheep to be slaughtered. And where does that come from? That comes from Psalms, psalms 44.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, and it's almost like word for word. Almost Sometimes it's paraphrased a bit.
Speaker 1:Okay. So he starts off with a rhetorical question what then, shall we say in response to these things? That's not rhetorical, I guess. Well, he's telling us the answer If God is for us, who can be against us? So it's hard to really talk about this section much, because it's like it's just saying can you summarize it, steve? It's a pretty simple summary.
Speaker 2:It's all good.
Speaker 1:It's too simple. It's a little too simple, Steve.
Speaker 2:I am simple.
Speaker 1:Steve Simple.
Speaker 2:Steve, how would you paraphrase or summarize it?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that I put you on the spot there, but I would just summarize it. As you know, if God chose you, don't worry about anything else. People will come against you, but it doesn't matter. Just you know you might hurt. I mean he goes through that. Who can separate us from Christ? Shall? Hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword, all of those are horrible, right. And so basically the summary is saying look, god's chosen you. You're going to have really hard times, but that does not mean God does not love you and he's not holding on to you. Don't think that God has left you just because you're in pain today or tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Well, and he directly points out God didn't even spare his own son. He gave him up for us all, which means he'll give us up as well, if it's part of the plan.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yep. So growing up, steve, I did not read my Bible that much, but I did go to church a lot, and so I heard this scripture a lot. And in verse 37, it says no comma. In all these things, we are more than conquerors. Now do you know what I thought that said in my head? I'm dying to find out. And it still works actually. Oh, K-N-O-w.
Speaker 1:No comma instead of no, as in negation it's no, as in have the knowledge that in all these things, we are more than conquerors, through him who loved us. Yeah, it works. And what's funny is, you know, I think that's a God thing, because I think God did that to me on purpose as a small child, because even to this day, every time I read that, or every time I hear it, I say it both ways in my head. I say it both ways in my head. So just know it and know so cool. I think that's a pretty cool thing.
Speaker 2:I thought it was going to be a funny thing.
Speaker 1:Well, it is a little humorous, because no and no, they sound exactly the same and normally it would not work together True. But the way this is worded and I did growing up. We listened, we read from the NIV Bible, so this is the same version that I would have read. This is a slightly newer version, but still All right. So neither height nor depth or anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus, our Lord.
Speaker 2:So what can we take from this? Steve, Are you going?
Speaker 1:to be cremated when you die? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't care, Because a lot of people feel like they have to be buried because of the resurrection. This tells us it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:I told my wife, I have told my wife I would prefer just to be cremated. But I don't really care. I don't want people making a fuss over my body. What's the point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I believe I'll still be given a new, new body I want to become soylent and green do you want to? Be one of you processed.
Speaker 1:You want to be processed. Maybe uh used as as food for the, the first people going to Mars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, that'd be fun.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, that's all I got, steve. That's all I have, all right. So next week, guys, is Romans, chapter 9. It's pretty long. It is pretty long, it is pretty long, there's not really a good stopping spot in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we might have to try to plow through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I haven't read it yet, so I'm shocked.
Speaker 2:I figured with me gone two weeks you would have gone ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't, I didn't. I failed in many ways in my quiet time, so sometimes I would read like just parts of eight um that that we were going to go over. But if you were gone so long that then I would like. I'm not gonna read my bible today and that's a bad thing, guys.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Don't get like that, so anyway read the. Bible every day. But anyway, that's it. We will see you next week. Romans, chapter 9. We should be around for a little while, I think. No breaks coming up, right, maybe? Yeah, all right. See you, guys, nine we should be around for a little while. I think no breaks coming up, right, maybe? Yeah, all right, see you guys, the Regular Guys. Bible Study is a Chasm LLC production. All rights reserved.
