The Regular Guys Bible Study
The Regular Guys Bible Study podcast -- RGBS -- is a podcast for regular guys by regular guys (not theologians) studying the Bible together. It's brought to you by a couple of goofy guys who just want to study the Bible together and show you that anyone can read and study the Bible. In fact, you SHOULD read and study the Bible yourself. We're here to show you how we do it, and, hopefully, we can have some fun along the way.
The Regular Guys Bible Study
Romans 14
Ken and Steve explore Romans 14, examining how Christians should handle disputable matters and differences in faith convictions without judgment or contempt. They wrestle with Paul's teaching on accommodating those with "weaker faith" while maintaining personal freedom in Christ.
• Paul instructs believers not to quarrel over "disputable matters" like food choices and observing special days
• Our personal freedom in Christ should never cause another believer to stumble in their faith
• Both those who eat anything and those who abstain are seeking to honor the Lord in their actions
• We should ask if our actions might offend others rather than assuming our freedoms trump their convictions
• The burden lies with the "stronger" believer to accommodate those with more restrictive convictions
• Personal convictions about disputable matters should be kept between yourself and God
• Everything that doesn't come from faith is sin, meaning actions against one's conscience are sinful for them
• The Kingdom of God isn't about food and drink but about righteousness, peace, and joy
Join us next week as we continue our study with Romans 15, the penultimate chapter in our journey through this powerful epistle.
Nothing.
Speaker 2:You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your hosts, ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the bible together, not theologians. Oh my gosh steve, you are so annoying. He told you to say nothing, so you know what? I'm just gonna leave that you screaming nothing right at the beginning in there, because it just it's who you are here. It is who you are and um and I.
Speaker 1:You know what I don't like editing it's and I'm pretty sure everyone is well aware of that oh, okay, well, um what's today, steve? It is Monday.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's when we record it. Yes, we typically try to record on Monday, but what are we doing? Today. We are recording on June 9th, which is my anniversary today, my happy wedding anniversary Thank you very much. I'm sure my wife is listening to this live. No, no, and not recording.
Speaker 1:We should do live um yeah, yeah, that's that's called radio, so I think we're doing romans chapter 14 that is correct always, guys.
Speaker 2:if you haven't read it already, pause this. Go ahead and read Romans, chapter 14. And when you're done, unpause, welcome back.
Speaker 1:All right, so there aren't really any breaks in this. Do you want to just split it down the middle?
Speaker 2:Um, I would say you just read the whole thing, you can say that I'll read through 12.
Speaker 1:If I feel like continuing, I will.
Speaker 2:No through 12. Not to 12, but through 12.
Speaker 1:Chapter 14, verse 1. Accept the one whose faith is weak, Without quarreling over disputable matters. One person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not. And the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? Do their own master's servants stand or fall, and they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Speaker 1:One person considers one day more sacred than another. Another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God. And whoever abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God, for none of us lives for ourselves alone and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord, and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, christ died and returned to life, so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living you. Then why do you judge your brother or sister, or why do you treat them with contempt? For we all stand before God's judgment seat. It is written as surely as I live, says the Lord. Every knee will bow before me. All right, you get to read the last half.
Speaker 2:I figure you weren't continuing because you were. It's like you just woke up, steve. Have you been working or not. You didn't just.
Speaker 1:I did take a little nap.
Speaker 2:Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Oh my, my gosh it was like a 10 minute nap very little.
Speaker 2:That's the worst kind that is the worst for, when it comes to my brain, 10 minute nap that is the worst kind of nap I can take. All right, um, do you want me to continue reading or do you want to just go to analyzing what we've read? I say we continue reading. Oh, okay, okay, no, you were going to say the other, that's fine.
Speaker 1:Well, in the ESV there actually is a break there. Okay, all right, that works.
Speaker 2:All right, so what would you like to discuss about Romans, chapter 14?
Speaker 1:Well, once again I had my iPad set to ESV instead of NIV, so my notes might not be directly applicable, but we'll figure that out as we go, it's the same scripture. It is, but there are things that felt different when I read it.
Speaker 2:All right, well, that's good. When I read it, all right, well, it might. All right, that's good. It might give us different insights. So do you want me to go with my notes first, or you Well?
Speaker 1:so I never really noticed before that in the very first verse, that in the very first verse that it's about weak in faith. I always kind of focused more on the eating and day thing and not that it's just the person that's weak in faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's talking about people who are weak in faith and they do things or don't do things because of the weakness of their faith.
Speaker 1:So I have a friend who is convinced that Christmas trees are some sort of idol worship because it's in the Old Testament.
Speaker 2:Are there Christmas trees in the Old Testament?
Speaker 1:There's something about decorating a dead tree or something.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, all right, I would. I would say that person is weak in their faith and are they? And yeah.
Speaker 1:Or they're completely convinced. Yes, I believe they are fully convinced in their own mind.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you should avoid offending that person.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't have them over any time between Thanksgiving and Groundhog Day.
Speaker 2:When is Groundhog Day? Is that February?
Speaker 1:Wow. Y'all keep the tree up that long our tree was up until nearly march this year okay, but you know what?
Speaker 2:that's not a real tree. No, so does he have a problem with that? Because it's not a dead tree, it's just a decoration we did have a real, real tree. Also, we have more than one you could not have had a real tree up that long, or it would have like burned your house down. It would have just spontaneously combusted by then.
Speaker 1:We definitely had one until at least the end of January Wow.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. All right, yeah, so I would say that is something that that I would say that is exactly what this is talking about, something like that, that this person is fully convinced that that is not right.
Speaker 1:That, and vegetarians are weak in their faith.
Speaker 2:It does not say that, and I do want to talk about that it does, it does.
Speaker 1:It says. Faith is weak eats only vegetables.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that. But you know what. That's how I read this at first, honestly.
Speaker 1:It's an example.
Speaker 2:And it's not. But it's not about eating vegetables. It's about why they eat vegetables Because it is a sin to them to eat meat, Right Isn't?
Speaker 1:that what that means? Why is it a sin to them to eat meat?
Speaker 2:Is it because it would have been sacrificed to an idol?
Speaker 1:That's possible.
Speaker 2:So all right.
Speaker 1:But I don't think it would be Jewish people.
Speaker 2:No, I think it is Jewish people.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't think it is.
Speaker 2:It's either I mean, it could be either, really, yeah, jewish or Gentiles. We have little things that we think are wrong. So you know what? I went through a phase in junior high when I became a Christian where I thought it was wrong. It was wrong to listen to rock music and for me it really was wrong. I was weak in my faith and that needed to be gone from my life. And you know, I would act like people were like sinning when they would listen to it, and you know they're Christians. It's like that was wrong of me, um, but it really was something that I had to, had to not do, um, and I think it's something like that. So people who are weak in their faith, maybe new believers, new believers who have not grown in their faith yet, or maybe are just wallowing in their weakness we need to not offend and maybe help them grow. So what I noticed in this first verse is a key word or key phrase disputable matters so in the niv I actually like the translation better.
Speaker 1:It's to not not to quarrel over opinions.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's not. No, that's not NIV.
Speaker 1:ESV. I'm sorry, ESV is do not quarrel over opinions.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, in NIV it says over disputable matters and what that means to me and it's the same right. But yeah, I like the opinion version or translation. But it means not everything is a disputable matter. Some things are, some things are opinion, some things are not opinion. Um, how do we know what things are not disputable and what things are just opinion?
Speaker 1:Hmm, that is a very good question. One answer I would give is test it against scripture. Okay, if you had something of question, but I think you're looking for a different type of answer.
Speaker 2:No, that's a good answer. I don't have a. There's not like I have this answer I'm looking for.
Speaker 1:Hmm, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Well, definitely, one thing is look at scripture um. I just said that, yes, um, and I mean that is the thing. It's look at scripture um. But if you look at um, both peter and pa Paul had this revelation separately. Peter had the dream with the blanket where Jesus came and sat. All all these things on the on the blanket, all these things that some some were food, some were seen as unclean, and Jesus. I think it was Jesus, maybe it was God or maybe they were just there.
Speaker 2:Eat up Said everything I have made clean is clean. It's time for a barbecue. And so you know, the point was I think multifold. But the main thing was you know, the point was I think multi, multi-fold. Um, but the main thing was you know what I made gentiles clean. That that was one.
Speaker 2:And the other thing are all these things, these little foods they call unclean, or like pork and tradition yeah, and that's all tradition kind of stuff that they call unclean, and so I really think he's using food not only as an example. I think it is the primary thing that people struggle with here, primary thing that people struggle with here, and that's why, he's using it as an example. I think there are other things like I mentioned. You know my rock music thing, um, and you mentioned you're the guy with the Christmas tree, um.
Speaker 2:I wasn't a guy, but yeah, oh, the person with the Christmas tree um issue, and you know, I think um, oh, the person with the Christmas tree issue and you know, I think it's really focusing on this because that was the issue they mainly had back then you know, I can say this in many little Baptist churches all over Texas will think you're a bad person if you're not reading the King James Version still, and you know that's. Why is that? Does that make any sense at all? But I would say that's a weakness in their faith.
Speaker 1:So what about the day thing? Because the Old Testament says remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. And yet Christians worship on Sunday, not that we keep the rest of Sunday holy, which that's a different discussion.
Speaker 2:I think that is a different discussion and I think that is a problem for believers honestly.
Speaker 1:Which part, that we do it on Sunday instead of Saturday.
Speaker 2:No, that well you know, I don't think it matters which day we specifically call the Sabbath.
Speaker 1:But to keep it holy. But to keep it holy, we fail.
Speaker 2:And I think we do fail. But that's not. I don't think this is what that's talking about. Even later when it talks about days and I'll talk about that, but we haven't gotten to that scripture yet, because it does talk about days later on in the second half.
Speaker 1:I thought it was in this second paragraph, oh did it. One day is special as yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, I thought that was later. I wasn't really listening to you. I was laughing at you being unable to read. You were paying attention. I don't think that's talking about the Sabbath. I think it's talking about celebrations.
Speaker 1:Like pagan holidays.
Speaker 2:Certain holidays. Maybe they're Jewish holidays, maybe they're pagan holidays, maybe they're Christmas. You know we celebrate Christmas, steve, in the US on December 25th. You go to Serbia and they might celebrate it January 3rd, one year or you know, just depends. It's based on some other calendar.
Speaker 1:Lunar calendar.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make it wrong, it doesn't make ours right. It doesn't make ours right, doesn't make ours wrong. It's just we have a different way and different day of celebrating. I don't think this is talking about the Sabbath, because that is one of the Ten Commandments to keep the Sabbath holy.
Speaker 1:Right, but Christians generally treat Sunday as the holy day.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's wrong?
Speaker 2:No, I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:Well then, this could apply.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but except for it says some people treat every day the same and I don't really think it's talking about the Sabbath versus not the Sabbath. I think it's talking about days of celebration or days of not celebration. I think it's talking about these special events they have throughout the year. Different regions and different cultures would celebrate these different festivals and stuff.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of Jewish holidays.
Speaker 2:Yes, there are.
Speaker 1:And I bet the Romans don't know any of them.
Speaker 2:That could be true, hold it. I did want to say let's see. Oh, I want to go back to verse one. Yeah, let's go back to the beginning, because one thing in my notes that I noted was because one thing in my notes that I noted was you know, it says one person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. Shoot, it's really more. It's really that whole section somebody who's just a vegetarian because they're trying to be healthy.
Speaker 2:I think it's about people have religious beliefs around this and what you know, what they're called, and it could be. I think maybe if somebody says you know you're being evil to animals, maybe that counts, but I find myself really wanting to gloat. In fact, it says accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputed matters, and what it does is it's calling the person who won't eat meat. It's calling their faith weak, and my faith is strong you notice that and I think I said that already yes, but that makes me, that makes me feel like gloating, because yeah I don't have any problem with that.
Speaker 2:So I really do struggle with. That is what I'm saying, Um from a, even from a maybe not out loud, but from a heart Um right, I definitely do Um, and I think that's wrong.
Speaker 1:I can relate, yeah, um, and I agree with you. I think that's wrong of you.
Speaker 2:Yes, Um all right, let's see. Um all right, let's see.
Speaker 1:So I have something on 10.
Speaker 2:if you want to jump that far, I have a lot of notes here, but you know I've kind of talked about them already. Okay, blah, blah. All right, go ahead and go to your notes at 10. Blah.
Speaker 1:All right, go ahead and go to your notes at 10. So this is a letter to Rome, but verse 10, no-transcript, don't you think?
Speaker 2:Maybe in the ESV.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I guess when I was reading it it just felt like he's talking directly you then why do you judge your brother or sister, or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I don't get that, steve, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to respond to that.
Speaker 1:If I were to summarize this first section, I would say avoid quarreling and leave judgment to God.
Speaker 2:I would expand that a little bit. I would say avoid quarreling about things that don't matter.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:And leave judgment to God. But it's definitely. He definitely says about opinion. You know, don't quarrel about things that are just disputable. I mean, it's like we're not. Um, now, there's multiple things like sexual purity that he talks about as being evil. That's not a disputable thing in Paul's repertoire of letters, right, do you agree?
Speaker 1:with that Word, can? I'm impressed.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it means. I've heard it before. Okay, all right, should we go on then? I think we should. All right, let's move on. I will read 13 to the end. Therefore, let us stop passing judgment. Okay, therefore, okay, so then it said 12 said so, then each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. So, in other words, it's not our job to give an account on if they have weak faith or not. You know, that's not up to us. Therefore, let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself, in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love.
Speaker 2:Do not, by your eating, destroy someone for whom Christ died. Therefore, do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil, for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. So, whatever you believe about these things, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves, who does not condemn himself by what he approves, but whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith, and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Speaker 1:That's a pretty hefty statement right there.
Speaker 2:That is a hefty statement. So let's see, I have a comment about 14. 14 says I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean and I just my statement is don't confuse this statement that nothing is unclean with saying that there is nothing that is sinful. That's not what he's saying.
Speaker 1:No, I think he's specifically talking about food here.
Speaker 2:I think he's specifically talking about food here. Yes, I think primarily about food, If nothing, and drink. Now this is, I think, drink, alcoholic beverages, Steve, is one area where I would say I might offend people at times, and I do that incorrectly because I think of it as well. That's their problem.
Speaker 2:Oh, they think it's wrong to have a drink. They think it's wrong for me to have a drink. The Bible makes it clear that you should not become drunk, right, but it also makes it clear that drinking a little alcohol is not bad. But for some people, they really see it as an evil. They really see it as an evil, and for me.
Speaker 1:I know I need to make sure I don't hold that over somebody's head and think of them with contempt. But what if you don't?
Speaker 2:know that the person you're with feels that way and you order a drink. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but if it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble, it is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fail to fall, I think what that is saying is if you don't know, assume they'll be offended and ask.
Speaker 2:That's what I do now.
Speaker 1:I have.
Speaker 2:I don't always ask, and that's what I do now I have. I don't always ask, and that's what I need to do. Would, it offend you if I? In fact we had a life group meeting at a restaurant and I did. I said, would it offend anybody if I got a bottle of wine for the table?
Speaker 1:For myself.
Speaker 2:And I mean it was a big group, and you know everyone said no, no, no, it's fine, here, I'll get one too. And so you know, everybody had one glass of wine. But I think that is not an offensive statement to ask, do you mind?
Speaker 1:I'm more likely to ask if I'm with someone that is like a recovering alcoholic, or I know they've been to AA.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll say, hey, do you mind? And some of them do, some of them don't.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and if they do, you say suck it, dude.
Speaker 1:Tough luck, man. I'm thirsty.
Speaker 2:Okay, look the other way. So anyway, yeah, I think it is on us. This scripture definitely puts the burden on the person who thinks it's not a problem. It puts the burden on us to not make the weaker stumble and you know the human side of me just hates that um, but that's what it says and we need to go by that you're free to do what you want yeah, tell me what you want, what you really really want I want righteousness and peace and joy that wasn't.
Speaker 1:The response was I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want. Okay, tell me what you want, what you really really want all right all right, what else you?
Speaker 2:got okay, so let's see. This note makes no sense.
Speaker 1:The part I had trouble with here is 16. Like you said, it's on us to not eat it, but then it says but do not. Therefore, do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil.
Speaker 2:No, it's spoken of as evil because we do it in front of them.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it's. It's spoken of as evil because we do it in front of them. Oh, not that they're gonna say drinking alcohol is evil.
Speaker 2:No, you can't say that, yeah, we. That's not what it's talking about.
Speaker 1:I don't that doesn't make sense anyway. Yeah, no, it doesn't um all.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I do have a question about 15, because it says how? Oh, my question is it says it would don't destroy somebody by this, and how would that destroy them? How could it destroy them? It says do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. Oh, hold it. That's not the one I was looking at. That's a different one. Do not, by your eating, destroy someone for whom Christ died.
Speaker 1:What verse is that?
Speaker 2:That is verse 15. I'm going to look at a different translation. I'm going to look at a different translation. It's okay, Like New Living says don't let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died.
Speaker 1:So let's walk through a scenario, and I'm just kind of thinking out loud here You've got a new believer. They think that eating brisket is wrong, for some reason, I don't know what I'm going to do with all that brisket. You've got a lot of brisket and you go ahead and eat it, even though they told you that they think it's wrong. And so then their weak faith says oh well, then I guess I can go get drunk or I can go sleep with whoever I want.
Speaker 2:Okay, because sin doesn't matter anymore.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:That's what the mature believer is saying to this other person. Sin does not matter, Because to them it is sin Because they are weak in their faith, and that's what Paul says at the bottom too. Right, but whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith and everything that does not come from faith is sin. So since they lack the faith and they see you doing that what little faith they have is probably destroyed. Okay, I'll go with that.
Speaker 1:I didn't really have anything else written down, Ken.
Speaker 2:All right, I have something from verses 19 to 20. I say, what does it mean when it says to make every effort to walk? I mean, should we walk on eggshells around people to make sure we don't offend them, or should we not offend people we know do not eat meat or drink wine? But if we don't know what someone's beliefs are, how should we behave? Okay, we actually just answered that really. Um, we should really ask a little bit.
Speaker 1:We should ask, I think, but there are some things like you. You wouldn't assume that someone's offended by you eating brisket.
Speaker 2:I would not, I would not assume that.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't even consider it in the realm of possibility, unless you maybe knew that. I don't know, maybe they're from India and they you know there were.
Speaker 2:We had a party at my house last year with the whole team and there were a couple of people from India and beforehand I asked you know, do you eat meat, do you mind? If I mean this is in a different context because they are not believers, but still, as it was just a nice thing to do, I think, was say you know, we will have meat, I will have beans that have no meat in them, or if that's okay, and but you know, and just to make sure no one gets offended or has't, get there and have nothing to eat, but they typically are not offended or openly offended anyway by us eating meat. It happens all around them in the US. So let's see, okay, and this is something I pointed out again earlier. Let's see, okay, and this is something I pointed out again earlier. But it's really up to us, the ones who have the freedom to do, to eat anything or to drink anything it is up to us to be the ones who do not offend the ones of lower faith, of less faith.
Speaker 1:And really you're only abstaining for a meal or two. You're not doing it all the time, but we're selfish people.
Speaker 2:We are really selfish people.
Speaker 1:We are.
Speaker 2:So this is something I think from a. Really, In some ways, this is a convict.
Speaker 1:Some conviction convicts me somewhat easy for you to know it's not Steve, stop making fun of me.
Speaker 2:But I would say this text is somewhat convincing. Gosh, it is not easy for me to say convincing it is not.
Speaker 2:I mean it is somewhat convicting. Gosh, it is not easy for me to say convincing it is not. I mean it is somewhat convicting to me because I don't think I do treat people with contempt, especially in my heart, even if I don't do with my words at times and I, um you know, I really think it's on them if they have a problem with what I do, and sometimes, and that's wrong, that's really wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am the same way.
Speaker 2:All right, Well, anything else, Steve? So, by the way, I'm telling myself and telling you right now I'm going to change.
Speaker 1:You're repenting.
Speaker 2:I am going to repent, but I will say this If you go to Suds Monkey, which is a brewery place, I'm assuming people there are not offended by people drinking beer.
Speaker 1:Well, and you're not going to ask everyone at every table.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I know, but if I see, somebody I go to church with which I have many times oh yeah, um, I'm not gonna say do you mind if I get a beer, because I mean you're at a beer place, or if I go to the salt lick. I'm not gonna ask somebody if they mind if I eat meat, because that's what they serve Fairly safe assumption. All right. Well, that's all I got, steve. Anything else?
Speaker 1:All right, nope, all right, well, 15 coming up. We only have two chapters left.
Speaker 2:Wow, Romans is almost done. Yeah, All right, We'll read it guys before next week. Romans is almost done. Yeah, All right. Well, read it guys before next week. Romans 15. No-transcript.
