The Regular Guys Bible Study
The Regular Guys Bible Study podcast -- RGBS -- is a podcast for regular guys by regular guys (not theologians) studying the Bible together. It's brought to you by a couple of goofy guys who just want to study the Bible together and show you that anyone can read and study the Bible. In fact, you SHOULD read and study the Bible yourself. We're here to show you how we do it, and, hopefully, we can have some fun along the way.
The Regular Guys Bible Study
1 Thessalonians 4
Ken and Steve explore 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4, examining Paul's instructions on holy living and hope for eternal life with Christ.
• Discussing how to live in a way that pleases God as believers
• Examining sanctification and Paul's warnings against sexual immorality
• Acknowledging how sexual sin remains prevalent in today's church
• Exploring practical boundaries to maintain purity in relationships
• Understanding Paul's instructions for quiet living and honest work
• Unpacking Paul's teaching about believers who have died before Christ's return
• Finding encouragement in the Christian's unique hope in the resurrection
Join us next week as we continue our study with 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5, the final chapter of this letter.
You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your hosts, ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together not theologians all righty, steve. So how's it going, ken? You know what it's going well, but um, I have a confession to make to our many listeners out there. What are you doing? It's like you're. It's like Steve has a tangle.
Speaker 1:Steve is tangled, all right. Anyway, I had a mess up in last week's recording. In fact, what happened is during the middle of the week. I was getting ready to publish this thing and I noticed that the last I don't know maybe 30 seconds to 45 seconds of the podcast was gone. Maybe a full minute, no more than that. But the very end of it was gone, and that was the best part. It's where we had all of our insights. You know what I tend to think? Maybe we were idiots there and God said, nope, that's not happening.
Speaker 2:And the whole podcast would be deleted.
Speaker 1:That's possible and the whole podcast would be deleted. That's possible. But so if you listened to last week's and you thought, well, that ended abruptly, it's because I just kind of added a quick ending and the sign off. So I apologize. And the sign off. So I apologize. I made sure our memory stick will not fill up on this one, that's great.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you're on top of things, Ken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm on top of it today, all right. Well, today, steve, what are we doing? We're doing something.
Speaker 2:Thessalonians 1 Thessalonians. That is chapter 4.
Speaker 1:1 Thessalonians, chapter 4. Well, that's good that we're doing that, because that is what I have been reading.
Speaker 2:And you know we ended well. Sometime in chapter 3, we decided to ask what is lacking in their faith.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:And you thought that maybe we'd find it in the future.
Speaker 1:Have we found it yet?
Speaker 2:I came up with one thing in this chapter that I thought well, maybe that could be it.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:So we'll read it. Did you come up with any?
Speaker 1:You know um, you didn't do it.
Speaker 2:You didn't up with any. You know you didn't do it.
Speaker 1:You didn't do the homework, you know, Steve. This is why you were valedictorian in your high school.
Speaker 2:That's because I went to school with a bunch of idiots.
Speaker 1:No, it's because you cared about homework. You cared about homework. I never cared about homework, Steve.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is true, I did do my homework, so all right.
Speaker 1:So if you haven't read 1 Thessalonians, chapter 4, pause the podcast. Go read it and come back and let's get started. All right, are you going to read this first section, steve?
Speaker 2:1 through 12?
Speaker 1:1 through 12. Yes, and what version are you reading in?
Speaker 2:um, I'm gonna read niv because that's what I have it on, but I think I did all my studying with esv okay, I I'm kind of bounced around both of those.
Speaker 1:I have some notes that say esv by them and some that say NIV.
Speaker 2:That's a good idea.
Speaker 1:Well, my app automatically does that for me, because I have a better app than you.
Speaker 2:I doubt that.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, let's get going. Start reading Steve.
Speaker 2:As for other, hang on Jerry.
Speaker 1:Mathers, jerry Mathers, as the Beaver.
Speaker 2:Jerry Mathers, jerry Mathers, jerry.
Speaker 1:Mathers, you know what that's from right Leave it to Beaver Leave it to Beaver? Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Where his mom always wore dresses and pearls to clean the house. Of course, all right. As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as, in fact, you are living Now. We ask you and urge you, in the Lord Jesus, to do this more and more, for you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified, that you should avoid sexual immorality, that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans who do not know God, and that in this matter—that's my problem with the word matter today—and in this matter, no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before, for God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being, but God, the very God who gives us his Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2:Now, about your love for one another. We do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other, and in fact, you do love all of God's family throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers and sisters, to do so more and more and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life. You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody all right, thank you, steve.
Speaker 1:You know, just to, um, to be uh, perfectly honest here, um, steve was cramming a sandwich in his mouth as like, right as we're trying to start the podcast, and I thought, maybe, maybe I should read this first section, but I thought, you know, it would be funnier if steve tried to do it right after he chewed up a big bite of sandwich. So, um, you're welcome, all right, um, all right. So, um, I have a couple of notes. Um, while you're chewing some more of your sandwich.
Speaker 1:Um, first of all, um, in verse one. I know, okay, let me just read verse one again. As for other matters, brothers, and we instruct you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living Now, we ask you and urge you, in the Lord Jesus, to do this more and more. All right, so Paul does not say here's how not to lose your salvation. What it says is how to live to please God. And my question is this Does it matter if we live? Excuse, me.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry everybody. Ken was chugging a bottle of whiskey before we started this podcast that is not true.
Speaker 1:Um, anyway, uh, does it matter how we live it? No, if we live to please god or not I think it does okay, I do too, but what is your grounds for saying that, see?
Speaker 2:I think if you were to live in a matter there's that word again a manner I'm having trouble with double letters today, uh-huh, uh if you lived in a manner that wasn't pleasing to God, I think God would correct your path and you would not enjoy it.
Speaker 1:I believe that's true.
Speaker 2:And later.
Speaker 1:Um, actually there is some later, uh, a later thing in this passage about um punishment, um, so, um, let. So, let me ask you this, steve he does not say to make sure you don't lose your salvation, you need to live to please God true so do you think that you can lose your salvation if you don't live to please God? It's kind of a trick question really.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say no because I think if you were saved you would be trying to please God anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say that there are cycles in all believers' lives that we fail to live a life that's pleasing to God, and we might go through seasons where we just don't care. Um, and those seasons, um will, we will be corrected and we'll come back. Um, but someone? I don't think it's. I really don't think it's possible to just live your life forever without trying to please God or caring that, uh, how you behave. All right, that's my comment about verse one. Do you have anything, steve?
Speaker 2:My first comment isn't until three.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's where my next comment is why don't you go ahead?
Speaker 2:So Okay, that's where my next comment is why don't you go ahead? So in NIV it says it is God's will that you should be sanctified, and then gives a bunch of stuff. If I switch back to ESV, it says that's really interesting, Steve.
Speaker 1:What does it say?
Speaker 2:For this is the will of god, your sanctification. Um, so this list that he gives in three, and actually for quite a while, here is this what we need to do to walk in faith.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess he says it's God's will that you should be sanctified, right? And?
Speaker 2:so that's what this is about. Being sanctified right, but isn't sanctification sort of our walk?
Speaker 1:it's our journey to becoming cleansed. Yeah, and, and what does it mean to be sanctified? Do you know that word, steve? What does it mean?
Speaker 2:it means purification, um uh the effect of consecration.
Speaker 1:Okay, consecration, it's like using another word. Nobody knows.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the other little definition. It says it's concretely a purifier. Colon, holiness comma, sanctification. I'm like I thought we started with sanctification.
Speaker 1:All right, this is what I have To sanctify. To be sanctified is to be set apart or to be declared as holy. So it's God's will that you should be set apart or declared as holy. And then it has a colon says basically so this is what you should do, so this is what you should do.
Speaker 2:And what's that? First thing on the list Avoid sexual immorality. So, sexual immorality. Do you think in the translation that maybe something was lost there or something added? And I'm going to tell you no, I don't think so. Because those two words? Do you know what word they come from in the Greek?
Speaker 1:I think the first word comes from the word sex and the second word comes from immorality it's one word.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, pornea that's. I should have guessed that, but harlotry, including adultery and incest, so figuratively idolatry it's where we get our word pornography. Or porn.
Speaker 1:Or porn. Yeah, okay, that's very interesting. So you know, it interests me that that is number one and I think, wow, the early church must have really struggled with sexual immorality. And my first thought was we don't have that problem today. And then I thought what am I thinking? I was going to say you know we have all sorts of sexual immorality in the church.
Speaker 2:It's just better hidden.
Speaker 1:It is probably better hidden than it used to be, which is a shame, but we have people cheating on their spouse all throughout the church.
Speaker 2:We have men addicted to porn, probably women too.
Speaker 1:We have, you know, whole groups. You know we even have a whole team of people at our church to help people with porn addiction. Do you know that? I did not know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do, that's how bad Is it helping you?
Speaker 1:I don't have that problem, Steve, but that's not funny. I might. It's great that it worked. Shut up, man Gosh.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I don't think it's something to be taken lightly and I think too often the church just overlooks the sexual sin that is in the body. Well, and I think I won't say divorce is rampant, but divorce happens and I mean some churches take a stronger stance on it than others. But it feels like of Christians in the church. Once they've decided to get divorced it's hard for the church to change their mind.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that is true and you know, I don't know if this stat is true, but I did hear a stat from a pastor that the divorce rate in the church is no different from outside of the church.
Speaker 2:It's not true.
Speaker 1:That's not true.
Speaker 2:I don't think so. In fact, that whole stat of the divorce rate is 50%.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's no data to back that up. Really it's much. It's much lower. It's like maybe 30 and I think the church is actually lower okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know who to believe. Now, steve you, I'm glad to help you or this well, we should ask ai then. Huh, we can trust ai I I don't know if I can trust ai about that steve.
Speaker 2:I would not trust ai on that one yeah anyway, yeah so this is the thing I think was lacking in their faith. I think they were sexually immoral. This could be it, I mean it is the number one thing he mentions. Yeah, I mean, he goes on to say how it's not like. This is a sin that only hurts you. It hurts other people, so you shouldn't be doing. It hurts you. It hurts other people, so you shouldn't be doing it.
Speaker 2:Yep, I think you like, I think that could be it and we're not animals that rut and heat we aren't we nope, all right, despite what uh popular culture tells us, we are not animals um, you know what?
Speaker 1:i'm'm just going to have to believe you on that, because I have nothing to go by to be sure.
Speaker 2:Ask AI.
Speaker 1:Okay, what else? Steve Number, verse 9. Hold on, I have something in six, okay, um. So he says, uh, let's see. I'm gonna read, let me see, not, uh, verse six, that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you for. God is not called okay um, uh yeah, god has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not man, but god, who gives his Holy spirit to you. All right, so the point is, this is where there's some mention of punishment, because the Lord is an Avenger. And so let me see my note.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, I have a good example of it. Okay, let's hear your example. David and Bathsheba, ooh yeah. They were punished. They lost the child.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep and david was punished um pretty severely for his in basically, the nation suffered for a long time um until his repentance he did repent yes, um, my note is horrible here.
Speaker 1:I'll read you my note, okay, so you can see my struggle with my note. I wrote he says God will be punished for people who do not live godly lives. I don't think God's going to be punished, um, I think that is supposed to say, um, god will punish people who do not live godly lives. Um, and my question here is you know he talks about the avenger, he is the aven. Is that punishment here on earth, or is that punishment in heaven, or is that punishment? Does that punishment result in hell?
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:I have a.
Speaker 2:I have a, I don't think it says here where or when.
Speaker 1:It does not.
Speaker 2:I have a gut feeling. I think it's here. I think it's here, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, and then you have something on verse 9 you wanted to discuss I do Now concerning brotherly love.
Speaker 2:You have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another, for that, indeed, is what you are doing to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. So clearly they had loving one another down, but were struggling with immorality, sexual immorality. Now, obviously, the easy joke here is Okay, I knew.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's don't do the joke, steve.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't think that's the case or he wouldn't have pointed it out?
Speaker 1:no, he would not have. Is that all you're saying?
Speaker 2:you were wanting to make that joke there my comment was actually were they struck struggling with sexual immorality but not with brotherly, brotherly love? So it's about as good as your comment was, and I was trying to remember why I made the comment and I just couldn't.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, I will say this, though I think that when you love people and love people well and are intimate with people and close, emotionally close with people, especially of the opposite sex, that that does risk sexual immorality, steve, sexual immorality, steve, um, and that's why, you know, I, I personally, will not go to lunch with a female by myself. Um, that's not my wife or my daughters, um, and I know our pastors, they won't meet one-on-one with a female. Our male pastors will not meet. Do we have female pastors? Not pastors, we have female leaders, but anyway, our pastors won't meet one-on-one with a female without supervision, and I think that's safe. And you know, we have to guard ourselves. And so I think, maybe the fact that they love each other so well and love others so well, that they love each other so well and love others so well, I will say it's possible that that feeds into the sexual immorality issue Could be, or it's just that the culture at that time, the passion of lust like the Gentiles, just was a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's true, and they were having trouble giving it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know there were these idol worship ceremonies where they just didn't hold back. Everybody was with everybody.
Speaker 2:It just doesn't appeal to me.
Speaker 1:Me either. All right so.
Speaker 2:So, Yep. Verse 11. Where is it? We urge you, brothers, to do this more and more and to aspire to live quietly and to mind your own affairs, to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders, and to be dependent on no one. Sounds to me like he's telling them don't be the nail that sticks out, or else you'll get pounded on the head by the locals.
Speaker 1:You know what that could be? Do you know what it sounds like he's telling me, telling them to me? It sounds to me like he's saying be Amish.
Speaker 2:Hmm, you know, my bike ride went through Amish country and it was pretty interesting to see all the horses and buggies and stuff. Yeah, you know, my bike ride went through Amish country and it was pretty interesting to see all the horses and buggies and stuff. Yeah, and part of me was envious of their lifestyle Really Laid back. It's a lot of work. I suspect that it's a lot of work and their free time seems like it would be boring, but that's compared to what I know and I bet their free time is not boring.
Speaker 1:I'll bet you're right. Um, yeah, that's my note, was it? I think the Amish might use this as one of their key verses. Honestly, and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, you should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.
Speaker 2:Well, you and I sit in front of a computer all day. We work with our hands.
Speaker 1:That's true, and we're pretty quiet. I'm pretty quiet, yeah, all right, you ready for me to go into the next section?
Speaker 2:I am thrilled that you're so eager to do so.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is 1 Thessalonians 4, verse 13 to 18, which is the end. All right, brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind who have no hope, For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him, according to the Lord's word. We tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep, for the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command. Asleep, for the lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the arch arch angel and is it archangel or?
Speaker 2:arch angel.
Speaker 1:I always thought it was arch, okay with the voice all right, with a loud command, with the voice of the arch angel and with the trumpet call of god, and the dead in christ will rise first, after we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will be with the Lord forever.
Speaker 2:Therefore, encourage one another with these words so I think this is the section that made me want to do Thessalonians, because I'm pretty sure Pastor Brad referenced this when he was talking about the first few chapters of Revelation.
Speaker 1:What, what, what.
Speaker 2:This is all in time stuff.
Speaker 1:Right, it is in time stuff.
Speaker 2:But to be honest, I thought there'd be a lot more than just this small section.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's it. So I don't know what to do with this, honestly.
Speaker 2:Well, I have some questions Okay to do with this honestly. Um well, I have some questions okay. In 16, it sounds like those that have died are not yet with god, and yet jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be in heaven that very day he did actually not say that what. What did he say? You will be with me in paradise. Oh, I thought he said today today.
Speaker 1:Today, you will be with me in paradise.
Speaker 2:He did not say in heaven.
Speaker 1:I you don't think paradise in heaven, or I'm just saying I have no idea'm not gonna, I don't, I don't know what it means. Um, uh, there could be. There's lots of things I don't understand, steve um, so go ahead.
Speaker 2:The new heaven and earth don't exist until he comes back, right I? Think we can agree that scripture is clear on that. So perhaps this other place, this paradise, is until then.
Speaker 1:Are you talking about purgatory, Steve?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. Purgatory and I didn't. I wasn't Catholic so I don't really know what they teach, but I always thought it sounded like a bad place.
Speaker 1:Purgatory Uh, I have no idea what that is. Um. I'm not Catholic. It's not a real thing as far as the scripture.
Speaker 2:Isn't that where you're supposed to like? Go and pray for your dead ancestors?
Speaker 1:so they can get out of it. I don't know, um, maybe, um, uh. Here's the point. The here's what I think the point is. The point is there are people in Thessalonica that Paul is writing and they are worried because Jesus hasn't come back yet. They were thinking it would be like soon, like people soon, and some people have already died, and it's like, oh no, they've already died, they're not going to go up to heaven and meet Jesus Now and he's like adamant, saying they're going to rise up first and meet Jesus in the sky. I don't know if this is literal or if this is kind of a what am I trying to say? A spiritual picture of the end times. I don't know, and this is the kind of thing I read in scripture that I really don't care, you know, because does it matter?
Speaker 2:I think this is where all the maybe not all the references to the rapture come from, but this certainly sounds like the rapture it's one of the main main references where you know people are raised from the dead.
Speaker 1:They come out of the ground and go up and meet jesus in the sky, but there's going to be people, you know, that are cremated. Do their ashes just flow up from the ground, do they? Are these people just for forming new bodies, as they?
Speaker 2:go up. I don't know the answer. I have an answer for you. Yes, and it's in this section and it's in this section and I think it's the point of the section and it's what we should take away from it.
Speaker 1:Okay go.
Speaker 2:It is in 13 and then 18, that you may not grieve as others who have no hope. Therefore, encourage one another with these words hope in heaven.
Speaker 1:I added the hope in heaven part. That's not man, that's. That's very profound steve. That's like the best things you know every now and then I say something you say something that's really good and I think that is really good. That's very profound. You're right. He kind of bookends it with what matters, what. I think really the point of this section is some of you have no hope, but you should have hope. Some of you have no hope, but you should have hope, hope in heaven, and encourage each other when, especially those who have lost hope, man, I don't know how I can go further after that.
Speaker 1:Steve, I think we're done.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good. That's the end of the chapter. You don't have to.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the end of the chapter. You don't have to. Well, that's good. So next week, then, guys is going to be first Thessalonians chapter five. That's the last chapter of Thessalonians. Wow, all right, read it guys. See ya Bye Say, bye Steve, bye Steve.
Speaker 2:Bye Steve.
