Daniel 10

We walk through Daniel 10 and the first verse of 11, exploring Daniel’s fasting, the mysterious visitor, and the tension between prayer heard and help delayed. We debate context, translations, and what spiritual warfare might look like when mapped to real empires.

• Daniel’s season of mourning and partial fast
• The vivid description of the heavenly messenger
• Strength lost, lips touched, courage restored
• Prayer heard on day one and delayed aid
• Princes of Persia and Greece as spiritual powers
• Michael as the protector of Israel
• When a promise is personal versus general
• Why translation choices clarify 11:1
• Practical takeaways for patience and humility in prayer

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Transcript

Banter, Super Bowl, And Ads

SPEAKER_02 0:12

You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your host, Ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together. Not theologians. Hey Steve, why are you licking your mic? It's weird.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Because it's weird. That's why.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

That's so gross. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:38

You know what, Ken?

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Yeah. What?

SPEAKER_03 0:39

You know what? I don't know. Yesterday was the Super Bowl. Yeah. I didn't watch any of it. What? I didn't. This is like the first year in I don't know how long. Why? Where I didn't watch any of it. I just didn't see the point.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

You didn't see the point of a football game? That just doesn't make sense that does not register. Was it any good? Um, you know, I will say I really like the game. A lot of people would say they hate that kind of a game where the defense is just so good. Yeah. But oh my goodness, the um Seattle defense was just smothering. It's it's I you know I noticed it but more important previous game, I was shocked though that it that it they were the same.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

This were the commercials any good. Because the last couple of years, the commercials have kind of fallen flat.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

I don't know. I guess some of them were okay. I don't yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

I didn't lose anything. I didn't I didn't miss a thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

No, not really. Um I I kind of always wonder, is it really worth what the companies spend on this thing? Um, there were several AI things that I'd like never heard of this company before. They spent their whole budget on Super Bowl commercial.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Did you know the the halftime performers basically make minimum wage and it's all about promotion?

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Yes, I did know that. They don't get paid. Yeah. Technically, they don't get paid.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I think they get a pittance.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Um, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

But it's like less than a thousand dollars or something.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

All right. Yeah, I I don't know. Um, but I'm sure it does wonders for their for their brand. And there were lots of good gambling.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Especially if there's a wardrobe manfunk malfunction.

Setting Up Daniel 10 And 11:1

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yeah, that's true. Um that was a really long time ago now. When was it?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Probably 20 years ago. 15 years ago at least.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Yeah, I think so.

unknown 3:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Alright, well, guys, we are on Daniel chapter 10. Um which is fairly short. Oh, did you decide if we should read the first verse of 11 or not?

SPEAKER_03 3:23

So in ESV, it it doesn't do that weird paragraph thing like NIV does.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

So I never read it until this morning when I decided to read NIV.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Ah. So if you look at most other translations, that it really carries over onto verse one of 11. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

You know what? If you want to throw it in there, I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Doesn't matter to me.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Because it does kind of fit better with the paragraph above.

Reading Daniel 10 Through 11:1

SPEAKER_02 3:58

I think it does fit better with the with the context. So I think we should. All right, so we're gonna read chapter Daniel chapter 10, verse 1 through 11.1. 10 1 through 11 1. Um, so if you haven't read, as always, read your stinking Bible. Read it. Pause us, read it, and come back. All right. You ready, Steve? You ready to do this thing?

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Sure. How far am I reading? The whole thing. I'll read chapter 11.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

No, I'll read the part in chapter 11 that's important.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

How about you read up to verse 14? And I'll start at 15 and go on through to the end. Alrighty.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

All right, um, it's yeah, it's but it's yeah, I'm reading more, I'm sure. It looks like I'm reading. You are. Yeah. All right. Well, let's go. All right, uh, Daniel chapter 10, verse 1. In the third year of Cyrus, king of Persia, a word was revealed to Daniel, who was named Bel Beltashazzar, and the word was true, and it was a great conflict, and he understood the word and had understanding of the vision. In those days, I, Daniel, was mourning for three weeks. I ate no delicacies, no meat or wine entered my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all for the full three weeks. On the twenty fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, that is the Tigris, I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold, a man clothed in linen with a belt of fine gold from Ufaz around his waist. His body was like barrel. I'm not sure what that is, but um his body was like barrel, his face was like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a multitude. And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men who were with me did not see the vision, but a great trembling fell upon them, and they fled to hide themselves. So I was left alone and saw this great vision, and no strength was left in me. My radiant appearance was fearfully changed, and I retained no strength. Then I heard the sound of his words, and as I heard the sound of his words I fell on my face in deep sleep, and my face to the ground. And behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees, and he said to me, O Daniel, man greatly loved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for now I have been sent to you. And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling. Then he said to me, Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words. The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia, and came and came to make you for I was left there with the kings of Persia, and came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision is for days yet to come.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

When he had spoken to me according to these words, I turned my face toward the ground and was mute, and behold, one like in the likeness of the children of man touched my lips. Then I opened my mouth and spoke. I said to him who stood before me, O my Lord, by reason of the vision pains have come upon me, and I retain no strength. How can my lord's servant talk with my lord? For now no strength remains in me, and no breath is left in me. Again, one having the appearance of a man touched me and strengthened me, and he said, O man greatly loved, fear not, peace be with you. Be strong and of good courage, and as he spoke to me I was strengthened and said, Let my lord speak, for you have strengthened me. Then he said, Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go out, behold, the prince of the Greece will come, but I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth. There is none who contends by my side against these ex There is none who contends by my side against these except Michael your prince. And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mead, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

All right.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Um by the way, I just want to say I think that's the best I've ever read. Even though I did have a couple of little stumbles. That is the best I've ever read.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

You are awesome, Ken. That that's really great.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

That is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you, Steve. Um all right, I've got some notes. So when I first read this, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

I thought that I thought that first paragraph was sort of like a uh, hey, this is what the whole chapter is going to be about. But it wasn't. It was it was uh basically just saying that he had a vision and he was distressed. It still didn't say anything about the vision, really. It just said because of his distress, the angels came.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Yeah, we haven't we haven't learned anything about the vision other than other than hold it. Who was this? This was who came to him? Michael? Or did Michael go help the guy?

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Uh uh let's see. Uh uh Michael is the one that helped him.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Alright, so who is this?

SPEAKER_02 10:19

This is We don't really know. Who has been coming to help to talk to him? Was it Michael? Yeah, it has been Michael that's talking to him, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:29

In the previous And we know how well he explained things.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yeah, so maybe um he's getting a someone who explains things a little more better. A little more better.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Um now I did read, just jumping around a little here, that they some of the commentaries don't think this is a uh type they call it a type, right? Of Christ. They don't think it's Christ in the past showing up to talk to him.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

I don't think it is either. Yeah, I don't either. I think it's an it's an angel. Because me too.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Um there are references elsewhere in the Bible that talk about um angels fighting um the the bad angels. Um and so that's spiritual warfare. And that's what I think this is referring to. These are two angels that are in the battle.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

All right.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

So Chapter Nine was the first year of Darius, and this is the third year of Cyrus.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

So how much time is that? That's some time has passed.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

There's a certain amount of time.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

I didn't actually I didn't actually look that up, but I think this period is significant because it's after when Cyrus sent some of the captives back to Jerusalem and they were supposed to start rebuilding.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Let's see. Alright, uh let's see. It's um it's 536 BC is the third year of King of Persia.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Uh third year of Cyrus, King of Persia. Um let's see, according to this uh ESV study Bible. Um two years before this, the first party of Jewish exiles had returned to Jerusalem in response to Cyrus's decree, but they faced severe opposition.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Which leads to another question I had when I read this. Which is why was Daniel in mourning? Because he got this vision.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

And it was a very disturbing.

Daniel’s Mourning, Fasting, And Timing Debate

SPEAKER_02 13:26

No, no, no. In those days, I, Daniel, was mourning for three weeks. This is before the vision. I ate no delicacies. Yes, I ate no delicacies, no meat or wine entered my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all for four or three weeks. For for full three or the full three weeks. On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, that's so that's um that's uh the three weeks is twenty-one days. Twenty-three full days. This is the twenty-fourth day of the month, likely the twenty-fourth day of his fast.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

That's when the vision happens.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

No, the vision happened, he was in mourning, and then this not Michael guy came to reassure him. That's how I read it. What? So he got I read it as though he got this vision and it upset him so much that he did this whole morning sackcloth thing. And then finally, after the four weeks or whatever, um this person like a man with a weird body showed up.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Well, all right, so man, we have never been in such disagreement. I disagree with you completely on that.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Really? Yes. Oh, I don't I don't think so. I think I'm right.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

And if I look at commentaries, it confirms what uh my thought was. Because um uh, let's see, as a sign of indemnification with the trials of his brothers and sisters in Judah, Daniel was mourning, adopting a deliberately ascetic lifestyle for three weeks. He went without choice foods, blah, blah, blah. Um, and the comfort. At the end of Daniel's time of fasting, he received a vision of heavenly being dressed in linen with a belt of fine gold, blah, blah, blah. That's what other people think as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

But in verse one, it says, A word was revealed to Daniel, yeah, who was named blah blah, and the word was true, and it was a great conflict.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Yes. And here's the story of how that happened.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

That's see, no, I don't think so. See, that's how I started the week. I thought, like you, I thought, oh, this is just an intro to what the rest of this is about. But then I was like, no, this is he had a vision, it was really disturbing. And then um gosh, I just no, no.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

You were, you know what? I cannot believe how wrong you are because you're a smart guy.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Hang on, I've got more data here that I'm gonna back up my claims with if I can find the verse.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Okay, what if I stick my fingers in my ears and go la la la la la and can't hear you?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

And uh you know what? I don't even have to do that, I still can't hear you. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

If you look at verse 14, well, let me just start at the the prince of the kingdom of this is thirteen, prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia, and came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision is for days yet to come. The vision that he received in verse one, he's coming to help him understand.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

No, no, no, no. So, so man. Okay, for the vision is for days yet. Came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days. All right, the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia, and came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days. He's saying, that's why he's come now. And for the vision, meaning the vision couldn't come twenty-one days ago.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Exactly. Couldn't come twenty-one days ago when he was first upset because he was being held up by the the prince of Persia.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

But the reason he was coming was to uh give the vision.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

But the reason Daniel was mourning is because he saw the vision of a great conflict.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

The reason he's mourning is because his people who have gone back to Jerusalem are in great peril and are facing heavy persecution.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

All right. Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

I think we're just gonna have to disagree on this, but I think um, man, I really wish we would have a little bit of um fan mail on somebody that um somebody that knew the a little more about it.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Yeah, that would be good.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Anybody listens to this, and I mean anybody. No, I know I know there are people listening, but nobody, nobody ever goes and comments for us. There's a link that on our description, if you look at the description of this podcast, and almost every podcast we ever put out, there's a link that says send text right at the top, and it will message us. And I would really, really like to know your opinion on this. Um, you can do your own research if you like, um, or you can just have your own opinion. Uh, you don't have to do any research, just read it, and what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 19:54

In any case, yeah. I don't think it's that big a deal which way we go with that. It doesn't really impact anything.

Vision Details And Parallels To Paul

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Not well, no, but it does set. See, mine, what what I'm saying sets an environment for the Jewish people that is pretty dire. Um, because but I mean it's it's good, right? First of all, Cyrus said, okay, I'm gonna send people, some of the Jews, back to Jerusalem so that they can uh what was he sending them there for? I think he was sending them for um let's see. Well, it was a decree by King by Cyrus. I don't know why they were going back. Um, but they faced a lot of opposition um at this time. So um it's it was probably a good thing that King Cyrus is trying to do to allow the Jewish people to go to their home, but um they were it was not being received well by the people. Um so or the Jewish people were not being received well by the Jewish people, so that's why I care.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

I'm I'm curious. Um, have you anointed yourself lately as he didn't do in verse three for that whole time?

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Um you know what uh I you know that's a very good question. We don't really have that practice anymore.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Well, but so I looked this up.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Well, I was I was gonna say something. Let me say, because you asked. Okay, and this is go ahead. I didn't look it up. This is just my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Um then it's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

It might be. But I was thinking, what are they doing? Doing when they anoint themselves, they're I think they're trying to make themselves not stink. Um, so I would say by saying showering or bathing, that might be anointing yourself.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

That might be anointing. I think you are actually pretty close to the truth. All right. With the exception that it was like, I think it was usually olive oil, maybe with some other scents for the smell butter thing, but the oil was because they're in a dry climate and it helped to avoid cracking dry skin.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

And what did what about Popeye or Brutus?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Um they just tried to keep the spinach away from Popeye.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Brutus did.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Brutus did. And olive oil. Yeah. Did olive okay, never mind. That's just a stupid joke. I'm gonna end it there.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Good.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Uh okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

So I think it is essentially a form of hygiene. Daily hygiene.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Daily hygiene.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Like you said.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Yeah. All right. So um, and you know what? After like this time of year, it's winter. And this time of year, after I shower, I put lotion on my legs.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

And if I don't mind get really dry too.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Start itching. My leg, my lower leg just itches, itches, itches.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

So I did it last night.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah, I forgot. I took a shower last night and I forgot to put it on, and I found myself itching my legs in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

At least you're not in sackcloth. Although he doesn't actually say that here.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah, and he's not completely fasting. Um, I I think it's uh interesting when we think of a fast, you know, we always think of no food.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Um but he just didn't eat delicacies, meat, or wine.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

That'd be pretty pretty tough. What if you just drink wine? That's a form of fasting.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

It's a fast way to get to the bottom.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Um, all right. Well, what else do you see, Steve?

SPEAKER_00 24:25

So it seems to me that when this guy showed up, um, at first he was awake, Daniel, but then he fell asleep. Isn't that how you read it?

Can We Claim Daniel’s Promise For Ourselves

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Uh in verse nine it says, Then I heard the sounds of his words, and as I heard the sound of his words, I fell on my face in a deep sleep with my face to the ground.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Okay. Yeah, I guess he did fall asleep. At least briefly.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

But I actually jumped ahead of where I had another point in there. I just don't have a note for it. His body was like barrel.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, barrel.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

So I tried to figure out what that was, and you know, if I click on it, it says a gem, perhaps topaz. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

And someplace else, I think it said um. Oh shoot, what's the other one? Anyway, something that I don't think of. Topaz, I think yellow. Maybe I'm wrong. I thought it was green. Anyway, I found another gem named.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Yeah. So I went and I looked, and both gems can basically be any color.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

So this is not descriptive at all.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Well, uh, it said like topaz, so we don't know what barrel is.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Maybe he was partially see-through.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

I think it meant meant meant he was, I mean, he was uh I don't know, shiny, sparkly.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

He had on sequins.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

It was like one of the It was Elvis or the ice skaters in the uh Olympics that are going on right now.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

It was Elvis before he became uh before he was born on Earth.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Oh um, yeah, I I don't know. It's like a a precious stone. That's that's how I read it. Um all right. Well, I noticed something about this vision, Steve. It actually has a similar parallel to ball to Paul's vision of seeing Jesus, by the way, on his road to Damascus. In that it does the people with him did not uh while they knew something was happening, and it scared them, and it scared them, they did not hear the voice. They did not see the the actual same thing that the person it was directed to saw or heard.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

So that's just a little parallel I noticed. I gotta burp. But um, I'm not gonna do it on mic. That's um, you know what? I'm gonna be a better person. About time.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Uh what else do you have? The next thing I have is verse 12.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Uh that was my verse 12, wasn't it? No, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Was it?

Spiritual Warfare: Princes Of Persia And Greece

SPEAKER_02 28:06

No, that was my verse seven. Um, I yeah, go ahead. What's twelve?

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Then he said to me, Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words. So could we make the same claim that God has heard us since the day we set our heart to understand and humble ourselves? Because I I struggle with people that would take this verse and say that it's for us.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Oh my gosh. You know what, Steve? I had a note on this, and I decided I just don't want to say what I want to say. All right, but you said it.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

That was what you wanted to say.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Yes, that's exactly what I want to say. I I I do not You must be influencing me. Uh in a in a I don't know if it's a good way or a bad way, but here's the thing. It really bothers me when there's uh when there's a word directed towards a person, and we always or we oftentimes take that verse out of context context and direct it to ourselves. Um I think there are some obvious cases where that is true because it is talking about a you generality, but in this case, no. I don't think you can say, I don't think we could take that and say that about us and have it necessarily be true.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Well, I know that I have not had a vision of a man like a gem with a face of lightning and eyes of torches.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

So um you have not an angel has not been sent to talk with you multiple times.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

But I've also not grieved for 24 days. Maybe you should not not bathe.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Maybe you should do all of that and not do one of those. But um, yeah, I I was I I can't believe we had that same comment, especially after our earlier disagreement.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

I know, isn't that weird?

SPEAKER_02 30:37

That is so weird. All right, um, so I agree, Steve, is what I'm saying. I don't think you can necessarily say that is about us. Um, all right, so Daniel 1013. Um so this uh the angel comes that's come to talk to Daniel is fighting, I I'm assuming another angel who I suppose is working for the devil.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

And that's the all I can assume.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

So, right, and I mean I could be wrong about how this works, um, but is this a real battle being fought around us that we cannot see?

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Are these battles do these heavenly battles actually happen around us or is this kind of a figurative battle?

SPEAKER_03 31:49

I don't know exactly, and uh one of the things that's to me sort of lends itself to being more figurative is he's battling the Prince of Persia, but behold, the Prince of Greece will come, which makes me think it's more of like a country type thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Yeah. Um you know, my honest answer is I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

I I mean I guess you've been dishonest the rest of the time.

Michael The Prince Of Israel

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Not the whole time, but this time I am being honest. That's all I'm saying. I don't I'm not saying which other times I was being honest or dishonest, but this time I'm being honest. Um no, but I I really just have no idea. And I and I know people who believe wholeheartedly in the in the full spiritual battle that goes on, and that is surely possible.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

Um well, I doesn't Paul tell us there's uh uh spiritual battles going on? I can't remember the where it is, which book.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

I don't know. Maybe I don't I don't know. I'm gonna try to find that.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

But um um but I I think regardless of if it's like actual battle battle or if it's a different kind of struggle, there is a struggle. I think regardless, there is some sort of a struggle in the heavenly realms that or in the spiritual realm that I cannot comprehend. And um I just don't don't know how it unfolds, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:55

How what it looks like to be in these battles. Um another note. Okay, what?

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Ephesians 6 12. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but again, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over the this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. I think that's the verse I was thinking of.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Okay. So that's about us battling. Um our battle is an the battle he's referring to there is an inward battle, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:45

For the most part.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

I think he's talking in general, like because he mentioned authorities, and at the time Rome was persecuting them, the Jews were persecuting them.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

You're right. It's actually uh you're yeah, you're completely right. It's but it's not just about physical battles, it's also about battles.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Stop right now. We gotta we gotta take that little snippet and just play it over and over. I'm completely right.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Uh but you know what I'm saying? It's like um it's both. He's talking about both the physical and the spiritual. Yes, I think he's and and uh for us, the spiritual battle, the internal battle is not a war fought with swords, um and you know, and guns.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Um but the outside could be um they or at least against us.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

So I you know, I don't know. I think it's one of those things we'll we'll figure out when we die. Um what else do you got? I got something in uh fifteen.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Oh, then you're next. My next one's 21.

Clarifying 11:1 And Translation Insights

SPEAKER_02 36:11

All right, I've got one at 20, and I've got one at 15. So 15. Daniel falls down and goes mute and loses his strength, and then his voice and strength uh uh are restored by the angel. And I'm just wondering, is there something significant about this? Um that is it a metaphor for something, or is this just what happened?

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Wasn't there another uh prophet that had a red hot coal pressed to his lips?

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yes, that was Revelation? No, that was um wasn't that uh like uh a isn't that the crazy one? Here am I, send me um duh which prophet wasn't crazy? Oh what is this? No, it wasn't the one where the stuff Ecclesiastes, maybe? Uh no, it's not that. Was it Hosea?

SPEAKER_03 37:24

Uh perhaps, but it was a vision, it wasn't real. Isn't Hosea the one that had the prostitute wife?

SPEAKER_02 37:32

I think it was real. Let's see here. Uh say where's prophet had a burning burning Ah, Isaiah.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Okay, Isaiah. And that's that I believe is not a vision.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

This is a section. Now the title is Vision of the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

I don't care what the title is. The titles are put in by somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Yeah, but he says in the year that Blah Blah died, I saw the Lord sitting up on a throne high and lifted up, and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim, each had six wings.

Next Steps In Daniel 11 And Closing

SPEAKER_02 38:38

All right, that sounds like a vision. Yeah, I agree. All right. Um, at any rate, what was the point? I guess that's a parallel here. There is some kind of it is a parallel. Um, yeah, I was just trying to think, is there some obvious metaphor that I'm missing? But um, and it could be remember here that uh according to my uh study reference that I was looking at the ESV study bible, um the Jews were being sent back to Jerusalem and they were being persecuted. And you could say that they were being um muted, and with and their strength was being removed, and then he is given strength and given uh the ability to stand. I'm just saying this could be a metaphor to what he's promising Israel.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

I maybe have and maybe I'm stretching here.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Well, I was thinking maybe it's um linked to fasting and being weak for not eating, and so that's why it's the mouth that gets touched because we impart energy to our bodies through our mouths.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

That's true. But uh yeah, I I just I don't know. Um, all right.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Um let me see. Oh, my comment on 20 is actually already talked about. Let's move on because I don't have an answer. But um, you know, if you guys listening think you have an answer for the metaphor or not, please click the send a text thing and let us know. All right. Um, you said you had something on 21. I have something on 21. What's yours?

SPEAKER_03 40:46

I was just wondering if Michael is Daniel's prince, or is it that Michael is more general and is like the prince of Israel? Or is he specifically Daniel's prince?

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Well, in all right. In the New Testament, don't we learn that Michael is the archangel? The archangel? Arch? What do you how does he how do you pronounce that? Archangel? I think it like he's the he's the top dude.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Um, so I would think that would be the angel for Jerusalem, protecting Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

But maybe, maybe I mean he's he's the one that's talking to Daniel every time. I know that.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Okay, when I click on the Michael's name, it says his name means who is like God, and then they go on to describe him a little, and then they say, one of the chief or the first archangel, who is described as the one who stands in time of conflict for the children of Israel.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

So he's kind of like their protector.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Protector. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 42:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

So not just Daniel's prince, but all of Israel.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Yeah, that's what I think.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

All right. Um, and then 11-1, and as for me, who is me here? I'm saying that is Michael. And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mead, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Yes, that is Michael, by the way. And he continues to talk after that. Is it Michael or the other?

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Oh, I'm sorry. No, the other dude. Whoever's talking to him right now, it's not Michael. Michael came to help me. I'm sorry. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

I I my I was wrong. Um, that's all I got, Steve. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

So when he said stood up to confirm and strengthen him, is the hymn here, Michael?

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Because that would kind of make sense. There's a mead. I took it to mean he stood up to strengthen and to confirm Darius.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

No, I think you're right. But I tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth, there is none who contends by my side ex against these except Michael, your prince. And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mead, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him. Yeah. I read it together.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Right. And chapter nine was the first year of Darius.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

All right. I'm going to that goes back.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

All right. I you know it. I'm I'm reading um I'm gonna read the New Living Translation. Meanwhile, I will tell you what is written in the book of truth. No one helps me against these spirit princes except Michael, your spirit prince. I have been standing beside Michael to support and strengthen him since the first year of the reign of Darius the Mead. There you go. There you go. And man, that really spells it out well.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Um it does. Maybe we should switch translations.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

I I definitely recommend you reading The New Living with this stuff, because at least once, uh and probably only once, but it does, it will sometimes lend some insight to what I've noticed for myself.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

I'm not sure I have that code version on my app.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Oh gosh, do you have a download button? N L T, Steve. N L T. N, it's L T.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

The search is useless. It's not bringing up anything.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

What Bible app are you using?

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Uh let's see. I cannot believe you're using such a bad app. I'm gonna look under N. Alright. Just um again, no promo promos here, but I use the Life Bible app. I find it to be very good. Uh you can have these split views. So on my iPad, this is pretty cool, Steve. Right now on my iPad, I have three columns. I have the NLT on one column, I have my verse notes in the middle, and on the far right, I have right now the ESV study bible um uh commentary notes.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Uh see that is an advantage over mine.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

I have to use the same column for my notes and my commentaries and my I can I could put a fourth column as well, but then it starts getting really tight.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Um I think we can see if I can add a column.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Maybe you can. All right. Well, that's all I got, Steve. Do you have anything else?

SPEAKER_03 46:37

No, that's all I have.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

So, guys, read chapter 11. I don't think we're gonna do the whole thing, but read Daniel chapter 11 and we'll see where how far we get through it. But so long, guys. Thanks for joining. All rights reserved.