Daniel 12

We explore Daniel 12 with open questions, a few laughs, and a focus on hope and endurance. Michael arises, books open, numbers perplex, and Daniel is told to rest and rise, pointing us to faithful living over forced timelines.

• why Michael arises and whose protector he is
• how to read apocalyptic passages with humility
• the tension between confusion and promised understanding
• possible meanings of time, times, and half a time
• the significance of 1290 and 1335 days and the 45‑day gap
• two figures by the river and the man in linen
• sealed words, refining of the wise, and endurance
• Daniel’s promise of rest and inheritance
• transition to Philippians and prep reading

Read Philippians this week and come ready for the next study

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your host, Ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together. Not theologians. Just regular. I'm regular. Are you a regular guy? I think I'm a little irregular. Yeah. Is it here? Is it the shapes? Do you hear the um the chime on my computer? Is that coming through or not?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I didn't hear it.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

I need to I need to set do not disturb. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I'm sure everyone wants to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yeah. Alright. Anyway, um, what were you saying?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

You're oh that you're irregular.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Um I am irregularly shaped, Steve.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Oh, are you taking that drug for the carrot?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Oh man. That caught me off guard there, Steve. Um no, I'm not. Thank you very much. Umrighty.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Well, that's a that's a I think we should just move on.

Framing Daniel 12 And Reading Advice

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Way to start this podcast. Okay. So, guys, we are on the last chapter of Daniel. Daniel chapter 12. Um, you know, the first part of Daniel is a lot more interesting than the last part of Daniel, in my Amen. Um, but you know, again, I I will say, don't skip reading the parts that you don't find interesting. Because God can give you insights in all of Scripture. All of Scripture is useful. So um read it um even if you don't uh even if you don't get it at the time, just read it. It's gonna help you. Um also if you haven't read Daniel chapter 12, go ahead and do that now. So pause this line. Take a minute. It won't it's not very long. Pause it. It's it's it's more interesting than 11, I think, Daniel chapter 11. Um agreed. But maybe it was just because it was shorter. I don't know. It's it's really short.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Um and it's about it doesn't make a whole lot more sense than eleven.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Um well, it makes a lot of sense. We just don't understand it.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Um isn't that the definition of it doesn't make sense?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I can't no, it's uh that's what you're saying is I can't make sense of it, or I don't understand it. That does not mean it doesn't make sense. We don't understand how it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I'm too stupid to get it.

Switching To NIV And Full Reading

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Exactly. And I think we all knew that going in. All right. Well, let's start with Daniel. Uh let's read Daniel chapter 12. Um, let's see. What do you want to read, Steve?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Um how many notes did you make, Ken?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Uh I only really have one interesting note.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Oh. See, I have three, so I think that means you should read it.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

All right, I'll read the whole thing. I don't care. The nose skin off my butt, whatever that means. I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

So a friend of mine recently had some skin cancer removed from his head.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

And they're like, they tried to pull the skin together, but there wasn't quite enough. And I was like, well, why didn't they just take some off your butt? And then you could be a butthead.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Huh. That's pretty funny, Steve. It's really good.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

You're a funny man. Did he think that was funny? Did he think did your friend think this was funny?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

You know, I'm not sure how the delivery was uh taken, to be honest. All right. Now that you mention it.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

All right, Steve. Um all right. Well, let's move on. Um, I'll read Daniel chapter 12, all of it. Um so 12.1. At that time, Michael, the archangel archangel.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

What what version are you reading?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Oh, shoot. I'm in the wrong one. I'm sorry. Uh, what do you want me to do?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

I'm in NIV, and that is not NIV.

Michael Arises: Realm And Role

SPEAKER_00 4:57

That was NLT. Um, I'm gonna go back to NIV. Let's start over. Daniel chapter 12. We're reading NIV, but uh NIV, ESV, whatever you read. As long as it's a mainline translation, should be good. All right. At that time, Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as such as not as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time, your people, everyone whose name is found written in the book, will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars for ever and ever. But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge. Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river, and one on the opposite bank. One of them said to the man clothed in the linen, uh, who was above the waters of the river, how long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled? The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven. And I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, It will be for a time, times, and half a time, when the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed. I heard, but I did not understand, so I asked, My Lord, what will be the outcome of all this be? What will the outcome of all this be? He replied, Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but for those but those who are wise will understand. For the time that the daily sa from the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be twelve hundred and ninety days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the thirteen thirty-five days. As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

So I just realized that our discussion before reading this made us the unwise. We're wicked.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Because we're because we don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Uh-huh. Okay. All right. Well, no, we will understand at the time.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Oh, maybe. I hope.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

All right.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

So I should have been a little clearer when I said I had three notes. If we had counted words in those three notes, we probably are on about the same page.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

That's ridiculous. You have three words, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

No, it's a little more than that.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

All right. So what are your notes, Steve?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So my first one is verse one.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

It says, At that time, Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. Do you think so in previous chapters, Michael was uh fighting a spiritual battle, doing stuff, was held up.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Well, remember, this guy was fighting a battle, and Michael came to help, and that's and that's why this guy can come.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Okay, I had it backwards.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Anyway, do you think Michael is showing up in the spiritual realm or arising there, or is he actually arising in our reality?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

That is an excellent question, Steve. It's an excellent question that deserves an excellent answer.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I don't think I'm gonna get that here.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

So you are not going to get an excellent answer out of me. However, when it it says that he will arise, to me that kind of sounds like he will be here in physical form, but maybe not. It might just mean that he's gonna show up and and do stuff.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

So I tend to think I I think I agree with you that it will be in our reality. And I don't I don't really know what makes me think that, other than you know, reading the Left Behind series and other other made-up stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Okay, hold it. Just let me clarify something with the listeners, because I'm really big on reading the word. Sometimes when you read things like Left Behind, it actually can deceive you. It confuses you, it can confuse you, and then later you think, oh, I think this happens. Um and it's actually from a book, a fictional book you read. And so some people are much better at that keeping those two separated in their brain. I I can't do it. So but okay, so you you read this um satanic book called Left Behind. No, I'm sure I'm joking. Um, yeah, I I actually know plenty of people who really enjoyed those books.

Fiction vs Scripture: Keeping Lines Clear

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Um Enjoyed is a a weird okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

I understand what you're saying, but yes, they still they recommend them. How about that?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah.

unknown 11:33

All right.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

We have them if you want them if you want to read them.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

I don't want to read them. Thank you, though.

unknown 11:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I get mad when uh look, here's the truth about me. I can't watch The Chosen.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

I can't see how The Chosen is way better, I think.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Well, uh the I think the good thing about The Chosen is that it's not mo almost everything in The Chosen is a story behind the story. It's like a fictional story behind the story uh from the Bible. And um they don't you know what I'm saying about uh about that?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, they don't try to they don't they don't try to rewrite the actual stories in the Bible, but they put a bunch of backstory.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, they put a bunch of stories around the stories that happened, and so they don't go against scripture. Um but anytime And yet you won't watch it. Uh I've watched some, and I and for the most part I liked it. Um, but like uh I don't know. Uh the way they portray somebody, was it Nicodemus or somebody that um is he a uh the tax collector?

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Is that Matthew?

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Oh, maybe was it Matthew?

unknown 12:56

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Matthew they make it to be sort of autistic.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Uh I I don't remember, but one of the characters, you know, it's like that's it's not how I uh I don't think the personality fits um from the personality of the scripture. But I don't know. I I it always and the pro the the what I'm trying to say is I don't care to watch those things or listen to those things or read those things because they make me angry, regardless if it's justified anger or not, because you know it's just it just does. And so I'm better off I'm better off not.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

And then and then honestly, if I get angry about something, then my wife will get mad at me. So it's it's not because if we're watching Like the Chosen, and I get mad about something, and she thinks I'm being too critical or whatever, being too me about it, you know. You probably are, I probably am, but it's just the way I agree with Paige.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

I think she knows what she's talking about, and you're kind of just stuck on yourself.

Who Are The Two On The Riverbank?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah, yeah. All right. Anyway, let's continue. Um, so I would like to say something else about verse one. So um at that time, Michael, the great prince who protects your people. Do you remember who Michael protects? Who is your people?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Is Israel.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yes, or you could say the Jewish people, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Um maybe we need to be even more specific and say the faithful Jewish people.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Uh yeah, that's true. The nation of Israel.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Although I don't even know that that's true. I think it throughout history, I think God has protected both the faithful and unfaithful Jewish people.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Um, yeah, in the same way that um Jesus says, you know, God sends the rain on the stop it. You're making fun of me. Um the rain on the uh the evil and the the wicked and the righteousness. Yeah, whatever. Um all right.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

I wish I wish he would send some rain to us. Good grief. We need more rain.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Uh we're supposed to get rain this week. So hopefully I hope you're right. Um all right. What else do you got, Steve?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Verse five. Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. So there's two other beings that showed up. Do you think these are angels, men? Could it maybe be Peter viewing wait, no, John viewing the uh from Revelation, like being there at the same time as Daniel for this vision? I mean, what who who are these other two people is my question.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

John does not is not alive yet, so I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Well, God's outside of time.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

I know, but I don't think so. Um he calls them men. Um but uh you know, I think I don't think Dan uh I don't know. And I don't think Daniel knows.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Uh Well, there's a third guy that's in clothed in linen who is above the waters of the river.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Right, and I think that's the guy who came and is talking to him.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Um the one that was held up.

Time, Times, And Half A Time

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Yes, the one that was held up until Michael came and helped him uh battle some people, uh the demons or whatever. And so um I don't know. I think, in my opinion, as far as Daniel's concerned, they're just two guys. He doesn't know who they are, but they could be significant in some way that we do not know. Um maybe they're two uh subservient angel forms or types, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Maybe they're two wise guys. Two wise guys, eh? Uh-huh. Could be.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

I don't uh it could be Moses. Moses and uh Elisha. Elisha. Elijah, Elisha, Elijah.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Is this before or after them?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Uh it's gotta be after Moses.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

It's definitely after it's after Moses, but what Elijah and Elisha. Uh where are they in this time frame?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

They happened to.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

I think they're before it. I think they're the before this.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

They have to be before this, I'm pretty sure. Um so it could be Moses and Elijah. Is it Elijah or Elisha?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

There's two of them.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I know. Which one is the one that was taken up to heaven and didn't die?

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Okay. That's right. It's one of those two. One of those. Anyway. We'll maybe we'll uh study that um that book someday, but not next.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Um, all right. So anyway, I don't have an answer. Um, I think you know what though, I do think it's um there's other scripture where Moses and uh uh I think it's Elijah come down like Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus um on the Mount of Olives.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Well there's the um is that right? Yeah, there's the the um what do they call that? Uh not it's not Sermon on the Mount, it's uh uh uh I hate my brain sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Yeah, I hate it too, Steve. Um but you know what I do Transfiguration. There you go, the transfiguration. That's what it's called.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

There were two others there.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

And it was Moses and Elijah.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

I think I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

And so I think there's a good chance this is Moses and Elijah. But as far as Daniel is concerned, it's just two guys. Um now it there could also be some significance that they're on each one side of the bank. Um you know, I don't know why they're on two different sides of the river. Um so it could be that they represent um it could be, you know what, they it could be um protectors of other people groups.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Maybe one is protecting the complete speculation. It is. I'm just gonna shut up now. All right.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

So Alright, what's your note?

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Alright, so this um time, times, and half a time. You know, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

And I said, So look, I'm not really one of these guys that puts numbers together, but I just I just decided, all right, let's just say time is a thousand years. So 2,500 years.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Time time is a thousand years.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Time a time is equals a thousand years. So time, times and half a time, twenty five hundred years.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Um and and then I thought, okay, when is this traditionally, Daniel, traditionally written 560-ish BC.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Sounds like we're pretty close to that 2,500 years.

1290 And 1335 Days: What About 45?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

All right. Well, listen to this. I just I just did some quick math wondering what year that would be. Um and um I accidentally did a typo on my calculator and did 562 years, which is um uh I'll okay. So anyway, so Twenty five hundred minus five sixty two that is nineteen thirty eight when Adolf Hitler started um really the persecution of the Jews in in um Germany. If I I read if if I did nineteen sixty which two years it's I mean it it was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

You said sixty versus sixty two, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah I did, but it must have been oh maybe I made it maybe I messed up by three years. But nineteen if I do f uh five uh five sixty BC it's it's um nine uh nineteen thirty oh no that's right.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

No, it's nineteen thirty-five. Yes, uh twenty no, that's not right.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Now I'm getting mixed up and I've but you've got a point.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

I don't think the year is that significant because you know what your point is for whatever year you came up with.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

My point is I was shocked by that simple math came out with Hitler and the significance that that had for the Jewish nation. I mean that was not only was it significant in the bloodshed and death of many Jews, it also resulted in the reformation of the nation of Israel. Yeah, that's true. It's like that just kind of blew my mind. Um I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ever done that math.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

So I have a question for you though. Yeah. Back then, did the the Jews use base 10 or base 12? Or base you you chose a thousand years. That's very arbitrary. Oh, I know. They've got this whole they've got this whole seven and forty-nine and fifty year of Jubilee stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I understand. Um, I I chose a thousand years because of um the scripture where it says a day in heaven is like a thousand years.

unknown 24:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Which is just a random, you know, that's not really what it means. I know, or when I read that, I don't really say, oh, okay, so one day equals one thousand years.

Daniel’s Rest And Sealed Scrolls

SPEAKER_01 25:01

I it really means, and the way, or at least the way I take it, is look, a day here, like who knows how much time in heaven, or uh I mean if you do yeah, if you use that and then you go down to the 1290 and 1335 days. It's a lot of years.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, uh that's a lot. That's true. But the other didn't say a day, it said time. A time, um some amount of time, plus another amount of time, and plus half of that amount of time. So that sounded like, yeah, I don't know. Anyway, my point is I really did not expect to see something like that show up. Now, that is using also the traditional um time when Daniel was said to be written. Now, as we said earlier, modern scholars now say, oh, it must have been written in like 165 BC after all these things happened, because there's no way the prophecies could be that accurate.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

So we have to add 400 years.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

So then we would add 400 years, yeah. But I mean, I just you know, I I think again, you can't you don't disprove prophecy by saying, oh, it it couldn't have happened like that. It had it couldn't, they couldn't have predicted it, so it has to be later. Right. All right, and that's really my only um only thing I have there.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Um now you're gonna love my last note.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

And it has to do with those days in verse uh 11 and 12.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

All right.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Let's see from the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be twelve ninety days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. My note is that one thousand three hundred and thirty-five my minus one thousand two hundred and ninety is forty-five days.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah. How about that?

SPEAKER_00 27:40

That's your note.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Wow. Wow. What an insight.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Did you like is that like, did you have to call your professor, your college professor, to like work out that math? That is incredible. Forty-five.

unknown 28:07

Man.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

What do you think the significance of forty-five is?

Closing Daniel And Teasing Philippians

SPEAKER_00 28:13

You know, I do wonder what is going on in those forty-five days. I do too. Craziness. I mean, if you the world has gone crazy. Maybe um Arnold Schwarzenegger robots are going everywhere, killing people.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Um I'd rather the uh the ones in the later Terminator series. They're cooler.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Oh, the liquid the liquid ones?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

The the female one.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Oh, okay. The attractive female robot. Yeah, that is a much better idea.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

I like that idea better. Getting killed by that instead of big beefy man.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Okay. That's a good one, Steve. Alright, so um, yeah, that's all I got. I will say though, that for my my, you know, I said that things work out to be the time where Hitler is, but you know, I I don't really think that necessarily is when they're talking about, because you know, he's also talking about um their name being written in the book of life, um, or if they were found in the book, I think is what they say.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

When was Israel set up again as a nation? Was that 47?

SPEAKER_02 29:50

I don't remember. Let's see. Why don't you look that up, Steve?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Let me see.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

I can look well that wouldn't work with your math, though.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Oh, I know. But my math, who cares about my math?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Unless the time unless the days that's the days are about three and a half years. You came out with 1938. No, that doesn't work either.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Okay, when was Israel set up as a nation post WW2?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

1948, May 14th.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

So that's like three years after the war. Yep. Huh. It kind of works out, Steve. Doesn't it? Well, three years after the war, yeah, that would work with the three and a half years, sort of. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

I'm sure that people much more knowledgeable of biblical stuff and history have already done all this math, and you could find much better insight.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yes. Yeah, probably.

unknown 31:13

All right.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Well, that's all.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

One thing I noticed though in verse 13.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

And this is for Daniel. As for you, uh go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance. He is in the book of life.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yes, he is. And also, it's very clear, he will be dead and gone by the time this stuff happens.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yep. So, um now the angel did tell him to seal up this scroll. Till the time of the end, right? Yep. That doesn't seem like it happened. Well, maybe it maybe there's more to it and we don't have the rest of it. I never thought of that. That's possible.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

You know, because Revelation talks about scrolls being broken and yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

All right. Maybe maybe we just got what we can get. That's a good good point, Steve. All right. Anything else, Steve?

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Nope. What's next?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

All right. Well, that's it for Daniel, guys. I hope you uh enjoyed it. Um, and I hope you keep reading your Bible. Next, we are gonna do Philippians. Uh, it's a short book. Say why? Oh, yeah. It's a pretty short book. Um uh and it's like four chapters, Paul writing to the Philippians. Um, I believe Paul is writing from his last prisons day where he does not survive it. Is that is that your understanding, Steve? Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Uh you know what? I will wait until next time to share my insight on that.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

All right. Well, um, I assume we're probably gonna take a little break between books, but we could do that. Yeah, I think you guys, though, should read Philippians. Get it, get it under your belt, understand it, and um and I think we you will have a better time listening to our podcast. So, alright, guys, we've enjoyed it.