E29. When other people influence your design decisions

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time podcast Amelia and Frank discuss how others can influence your design decisions and the flow-on effect of this happening at different stages of the design process.

Frank and Amelia deep dive into real-life situations and what happened when Amelia provided some advice to a friend about their new home design when they asked for her opinion.

Tune in for a deep dive into the challenges and opportunities, ensuring your design decisions enhance rather than hinder your vision when they are influenced by others' opinions.

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E29. When others influence your design decisions 

(0:08 - 0:39)

INTRO

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designer's perspective. 

(0:40 - 0:51)

Amelia: Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus. 

Frank: Hey Amelia, how are you? 

Amelia: Good, how are you going? 

Frank: I'm going well. 

Amelia: We have another topic to talk about and it's a bit of a story actually.

(0:52 - 1:08)

Fank: Yeah? 

Amelia: Yeah, so I was talking to a friend of mine who is getting a house designed and they wanted my opinion on the plans. So they whipped out these plans and I, well I gave them my honest opinion because, you know, they're a friend. You give them an honest opinion.

(1:08 - 1:19)

Frank: They asked for it. 

Amelia: They asked for it, so I gave it to them and I'm pretty sure they went away feeling probably a lot more confused than what they were to start with. 

Frank: What did you tell them?

Amelia: About the design.

(1:19 - 1:31)

Frank: What did you say? 

Amelia: I kept it fairly positive.

Frank: Yeah, yeah.

Amelia: You know, but just, you know, you could take this wall out and make this bigger and, you know, all those sorts of things.

(1:31 - 1:37)

But I think it does pose some real problems. 

Frank: Well, I suppose it does. 

Amelia: Yeah.

(1:38 - 2:17)

Frank: And from my perspective it can, and I've seen customers come back confused talking to other people. And it can be quite, for a designer it can be quite disheartening sometimes too because someone else's opinions come in and it doesn't match what they told us when they came in to talk to us about, you know, we agreed on what they wanted. Now they're kind of second guessing and really do I need to have that bathroom there or should I have a view from their bedroom or, you know, just all sorts of stuff or just layout of kitchens even and things like that where they told us they wanted a kitchen one way, now another way because someone told them this is a better way of doing it.

(2:18 - 2:38)

Did you tell them that? 

Amelia: Maybe. 

Frank: But it's quite common because I think people get a little bit unsure. They kind of like know what they want in some ways because we ask, you know, tell us what you want in your house and do what is called a wish list and they write down one side everything they want.

(2:38 - 2:54)

They're on the opposite side of the list everything they need that's non-negotiable. It has to be in the house and you put it in order of priority. And usually it works really, really well but some people aren't confident in their own decision making or they're affected by other people's opinions.

(2:54 - 3:00)

So it was interesting they came and spoke to you. You know, you talk to your friends, don't you? We all talk about this stuff. 

Amelia: Oh, for sure.

(3:01 - 3:25)

Frank: But sometimes not trusting yourself in going in the direction for your house or an extension or whatever it may be can leave levels of indecisiveness, I suppose. You don't know what to do. We like to work with customers to make sure that they get everything they want as much as we can with, you know, obviously you've got budget constraints and the site may not allow to do certain things.

(3:25 - 3:41)

So it can get frustrating, I've got to admit. I've seen people come back and they've totally torn the plans like the designs to shreds and it's completely different to what we spoke about that was agreed as part of our scope. And that's what we priced on too, by the way, but it's completely changed it.

(3:41 - 4:03)

And it's a very awkward thing sometimes. If it's really early on, yep, we can look at it. But say, what happens if it's after planning, if we're into building approval? 

Amelia: Yeah, that's a bit tricky to deal with, isn't it?

Frank: It is because it costs lots of money to change or triggers planning or the engineer says, well, I need to do this, you know, or the thermal performance assessor goes, well, that's not going to work.

(4:04 - 4:12)

I can't make compliance by doing that and building a glass box all of a sudden. And it does happen in all seriousness. It does happen and it can be a bit despondent for designers.

(4:13 - 4:24)

My personal belief is you work hard on what you want. And if you rely on everyone else's opinion so heavily, you're not really sure what you want.

Amelia: I'd have to agree there.

(4:25 - 4:34)

You know, it's got to suit your needs. 

Frank: Yeah, it does. I remember an elderly friend of mine, her husband passed away and good friends with their kids.

(4:35 - 4:44)

And she was talking to me about designing your house. And she, you know, you're getting up in the late 70s and whatnot. And she goes, I'll design a house, do this.

(4:44 - 5:04)

It's got to be this and that because of resale. And I says, why do you have to worry about resale? But this could be your last house. So why wouldn't you design exactly for what you need at this point and potentially keep you in your house a lot longer and build good bathrooms, good spaces so you can use it if you ever end up in a wheelchair or whatever.

(5:04 - 5:13)

You can stay in the house much, much longer. The house will still sell in the future. 

Amelia: Well, someone else will be in their 70s and probably look at wanting the same thing.

(5:14 - 5:20)

Frank: Oh, totally. And we had a good discussion about it. She said, I didn't think about it like that because everyone talks about resale, don't overcapitalise.

(5:21 - 5:38)

The thing is, why don't you build it for your own purposes? It's still going to function as a very good house. And it will meet your needs perfectly, you know, as long as you are in that house. So sometimes we're taken away by everyone else's opinion or what everyone says about resale.

(5:39 - 5:46)

When you're younger, I get it. You want to move to a bigger house. You want to get the best capital gain or easy to sell your house.

(5:46 - 5:52)

Totally get that. When you're older, it's a different way you look at it. So don't listen to everyone's opinion either, I suppose.

(5:53 - 5:58)

That's a side. Make sure it suits you. Certainly understand overcapitalisation.

(5:58 - 6:02)

And there's some people that don't care. And we've done that plenty of times. And that's okay too.

(6:03 - 6:12)

Because they're building an alfresco and a pool and big outdoor entertainment area and it's costing, you know, $300,000, $400,000. But that's what they want. But they're going to be there for a long period of time.

(6:12 - 6:22)

And no one's going to change their mind because that's what they want. 

Amelia: Yeah. And I think it's probably less to do so with people that are getting into the first home market.

(6:23 - 6:34)

Possibly more for people that are looking for longevity in their homes or anything like that. 

Frank: But it's quite interesting. People have a lot of design opinions on how things should function.

(6:34 - 6:46)

Or some people are more focused on the form. And they're interested in people's opinion on how it looks. You know, the beautiful form of the house, how it's street view and, you know, the street value, the street cred.

(6:46 - 6:54)

And they kind of hang everything on that because they want everyone's approval. Oh, that looks amazing and all that, which is cool. 

Amelia: It's no good if it doesn't function for you, though.

(6:54 - 7:01)

Frank: Well, exactly right. It has to function because then you hate living in the place. If it doesn't function properly, you're going to dislike it.

(7:02 - 7:10)

Or you can't maintain it properly. And I'll throw in my old thing, box gutters. You know, they're hard to maintain.

(7:10 - 7:12)

If you've got a box gutter, you've got to maintain it. You've got to clean it. 

Amelia: You've got to clean them.

(7:12 - 7:17)

Frank: But no one does it, especially if it's a two-story house. You're trying to get up there. It's unsafe and all the rest of it.

(7:17 - 7:25)

So that's getting the form looking right how you want it. But it's got extra maintenance when you've got box gutters in there. Happy to do it, but yeah.

(7:25 - 7:35)

But then the house is still going to function, which way it's facing. You want to get good solar gain out of it. It's got to perform thermally really well to reduce your energy costs, all that type of stuff.

(7:35 - 7:40)

But then some people's opinions are quite different. Like I had it. Yeah, that's right.

(7:40 - 7:47)

I had it with my son's house. I designed it to capture sun. But the lounge rooms and stuff faced the road.

(7:47 - 8:00)

But that's where north was. Then everyone was telling me, no, the living room should be down the back because then you can open out to the alfresco and it says, well, it'll be pitch black, in Tassie we have long winters and stuff and it just wouldn't get any sunlight.

(8:00 - 8:08)

I says, well, we need sunlight. And I explained it to them and they kind of got me, but they didn't understand why I did it that way. 

Amelia: Sure.

(8:08 - 8:13)

Frank: They moved in there. Guess what? There's sunlight.
 
 

Amelia: And they love it? 

Frank: Yeah, they do.

(8:13 - 8:27)

Amelia: There you go.

Frank: And it was a very simple home. People don't understand why designers do things sometimes, which saddens me sometimes because they just think about other aspects rather than sunlight and thermal performance.

(8:28 - 8:41)

But then you've got other people that want to have these bathrooms. You've got to have a stand-alone bath and all this because it's someone else's opinion or keeping up with the Joneses. But I think it's really important to stick to what's really important to you.

(8:42 - 8:50)

That, to me, is more than anything. Stick to what you believe is the non-negotiables for your house extension, whatever it is. Don't change.

(8:51 - 9:10)

Before you go to see a designer or architect, you should be pretty clear, these are the things I need. I cannot do without these things. 

Amelia: So what would you suggest for people that are struggling to determine the scope of what they're after? 

Frank: That's okay if you're still not sure, but you've got an idea.

(9:10 - 9:17)

I need extensions, classic examples. I need a bedroom with an ensuite walk-in room. My house doesn't currently have one.

(9:17 - 9:25)

I need a second bathroom. I need this, that, and the other. But if you've got those three key things that you need, it's pretty simple.

(9:25 - 9:39)

It's just how you incorporate it into the house. It's when it gets a little bit bigger and fancier that people aren't clear on it or they're easily swayed. New homes are probably the ones that we see the most where people are swayed by other people's opinions.

(9:40 - 9:53)

They probably read too many books and magazines and they can't make their mind up. They're confused, and they can tell they're confused by the pictures. But you can work through your designs just doing real basic sketches to understand the direction and things like that.

(9:54 - 10:14)

We send them images on how it could look really, really early on. 

Amelia: And I think that's part of the problem, especially if people can't visualise it, because they might see the pictures in the magazines, but that's actually the way that that image is might not suit their land or their site. 

Frank: Oh, pretty much so.

(10:15 - 10:27)

And also European pictures where it shows things aren't compliant. Australia's very heavily regulated, and you see all these beautiful pictures out of Europe, America, and you can do stuff, but you can't do it here. With the general idea, you can.

(10:27 - 10:51)

I think also when you feel overwhelmed with it sometimes too and you're not sure and all that, grab the plans, pop them in a drawer, walk away for a week or so, try to think about it, and then come back to it in a week with a fresh set of eyes. 

Amelia: That's a good idea. 

Frank: Then you can look at it, and if you have a partner that you're working with on this as well, that's fine.

(10:51 - 10:58)

Then you can look at a fresh set of eyes. You just need a break from it. Sometimes you need a break to look at it from a different point of view.

(10:59 - 11:22)

The 3D visualisation that we can do nowadays makes it much, much easier to look at the proportions and things like that, but even the layout, we can show that in 3D, pop the roof off, and you can look inside with all the walls, and it gives you a reasonable sense of proportion. All I can say is don't be swayed by everyone's opinion. It can really ruin the process and make the process unenjoyable because you're unsure.

(11:23 - 11:41)

Amelia: Other people's opinions may not actually work on your site. 

Frank: Because that's how they want to live, or even inside how you function, how you use a kitchen. There are multiple ways to do kitchens, multiple ways to do the butler's pantries, which is all popular at the moment, how people do ensuites, how people do bathrooms.

(11:41 - 12:00)

There are so many different ways of doing it. Be clear of the way you want to do it, and talk to your designer because they know all the options. They know every conceivable way of doing stuff, and they should be able to work through, provide you four different options for a bathroom if they had to, or five or six, or for an en-suite, master bedroom ensuite, walk-in robe layout.

(12:00 - 12:08)

There's multiple ways of doing it. The same with your kitchens. And then you can assess which ones you like.

(12:08 - 12:13)

And it's not unusual. We've done it heaps of times in the past. So then you've got the options, and you get to choose.

(12:15 - 12:28)

But I'll just point out something else. Also don't let a designer railroad you into doing what they like. 

Amelia: Yeah, that's the other end of the scale, isn't it? 

Frank: Well, that's been one of my hang-ups.

(12:28 - 12:41)

I love working with people to get what they want. But when people push designers, architects, push the way they want it done, I don't think it's necessarily right. But that's a difference of opinion in designers and architects.

(12:42 - 12:53)

Everyone's got the way they operate, but I don't like it when they put their own take on it. Nothing wrong with their own take, but when they insist it's the only way it needs to be done, I don't think that's right. 

Amelia: No.

(12:54 - 13:04)

I would have to agree with you there. I think it always has to be to benefit the client. 

Frank: Well, it's their hacienda, their castle, their investment.

(13:05 - 13:13)

Fair enough, we can come up with lots of really cool ideas and stuff. There's no problem with that. But you do have to choose how you want it to function and ideas.

(13:13 - 13:18)

And you second-guess. We all do it. As designers ourselves, designing our own houses, we do it.

(13:19 - 13:44)

We're probably the worst at it, second-guessing our own, when we do our own houses, our own extensions, renos. We're the worst because we see it all day every day and how it functions and all these cool ideas because we do a lot of, you know, go to conferences, a lot of stuff online, webinars and stuff as part of our professional development. And then we're genuinely interested in other people's ideas as well.

(13:44 - 14:03)

And then you get too many ideas. So designers and architects have the same problem at times where you're going round and round the circle. 

Amelia: That makes me wonder, how did you go when you designed your new house recently? Did you overthink the process because of all the things you wanted to incorporate? 

Frank: Yes.

(14:03 - 14:10)

Very much so. I can honestly say I overthought certain elements of it, and I still do. And that's because of what we do.

(14:10 - 14:22)

And then you've got to really knuckle down, am I taking this too far, peg it back? I drove a couple of guys nuts in the office. 

Amelia: More than usual. 

Frank: More than usual.

(14:24 - 14:40)

Because you're doubting yourself on certain things and how it's laid out. There's more things important to yourself personally. In this one, I went into this a little bit different, and my wife chose a lot of other stuff than I kept my nose out of it.

(14:40 - 14:42)

Amelia: The interior stuff. 

Frank: Interior stuff. I let her do that.

(14:42 - 14:46)

And I said, look, I want to do these things. These were important to me. This was important to her.

(14:47 - 14:52)

And we agreed, and it's been good. It's been a good process. Until we went shopping.

(14:54 - 14:58)

No, I'm joking. It wasn't too bad. Shopping for appliances and stuff.

(14:58 - 15:01)

No, it wasn't too bad. 

Amelia: Oh, that's good. 

Frank: But you do.

(15:02 - 15:06)

You overthink stuff. And that's why I worry about everyone. Don't overthink stuff.

(15:07 - 15:16)

Try and enjoy the process. And it's easy for me to say after I've done it myself. But I do enjoy once I've found a solution to how I want it to work.

(15:17 - 15:23)

And how I want it to function. How to be thermally efficient. And just be a really comfortable house to live in.

(15:23 - 15:28)

Amelia: Yeah, I know a couple of things that you mentioned that were super important to you. One of them. I'm going to list it.

(15:28 - 15:32)

Frank: Oh, come on. 

Amelia: Because it's funny. Your range hood.

(15:33 - 15:37)

Yeah. For me, I'm sick of these noisy range hoods in kitchens. They drive me nuts with open plans.

(15:37 - 15:45)

So we're going for the one with an inline fan in it. That was a priority for me. You going to talk about the whiskey cupboard? 

Amelia: Oh, you can mention the whiskey cupboard.

(15:45 - 15:51)

Frank: Oh, you didn't know about that. 

Amelia: No, I think I have seen it in one of the renders. 

Frank: The hidden whiskey cupboard.

(15:51 - 15:55)

Amelia: Yeah. Not in the bedroom or anything weird like that. 

Frank: No, come on.

(15:57 - 16:02)

That's with the side bed.

Amelia: That's a worry. 

Frank: Nah, joking.

(16:03 - 16:13)

No, I just wanted a cool little whiskey cupboard that the doors open, they slide back in the walls. Nothing real big, but it's just tucked away. 

Amelia: Yeah, nice.

(16:13 - 16:20)

Frank: You know, and I wanted a reasonable size workshop, garage. 

Amelia: Man cave. 

Frank: Yeah, yeah.

(16:20 - 16:30)

And no, there were certain things I liked with that. And Veronica wanted other things. I wanted an outdoor alfresco area that we can open the windows, close the windows, because the Tasmanian weather here, as you can hear the wind howl.

(16:30 - 16:46)

Amelia: You can hear the wind in the background.

Frank: Yeah, where she can blast from all sorts of directions. And I'd just like a nice place to sit even in the cooler times with heaters, radiant heaters in there, and a barbecue built in, but keep it relatively flexible.

(16:46 - 16:53)

Amelia: For sure. 

Frank: You know, so we both agreed on those things. But there's other stuff that we don't agree with, but that's okay.

(16:53 - 16:59)

You work your way through. But yes, man, the second guessing to myself. Yeah, there's a lot of it.

(16:59 - 17:07)

Amelia: Did you have to consult any other designers for their opinion? So this is coming from your point of view. 

Frank: Ah, great question. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(17:09 - 17:23)

No. With the interior, with, you know, Tahleah in the office, yeah, we did with the interiors and some ideas. She threw some additional ideas in with the ensuite and the walk-in robe arrangement, which was good.

(17:23 - 17:33)

So we incorporated, like it's a bigger shower, incorporated a seat plus a big shelf on one side. And I thought, yeah, that was a great idea. And that's good.

(17:34 - 17:46)

She had a little bit of input and we both agreed that's a good idea. Yeah, generally that was, yeah, most of it I had pretty nutted out. 

Amelia: Yeah, so you waited until you had it sort of all nutted out in your head first before getting it sorted.

(17:46 - 17:53)

Frank: Yeah, kept refining it though. You refine, refine, refine. And sorry, when, because I'm in the game, you over-refine it.

(17:53 - 18:00)

Amelia: Yeah, I can imagine, yeah. 

Frank: And I'll guarantee every architect, every other designer around the country would be exactly the same. 

Amelia: Yeah.

(18:01 - 18:08)

Frank: Because, and I shouldn't say this, there's an expectation. People expect you to be able to have something wow. My house is not wow.

(18:09 - 18:17)

I don't consider it as wow because I'm going for more thermal performance as opposed to wow factor. I want it to function very well. 

Amelia: Efficiently.

(18:17 - 18:32)

Frank: Yeah, very efficiently, very comfortable. And it's a good way for me to learn too to then pass on to customers. You know, my experiences of working with the builder on this as well, you know, some of the pitfalls of going to a more high-performance designed house.

(18:32 - 18:44)

Amelia: As opposed to like your more traditional designs, which we would design more on a regular basis. 

Frank: And of course, and that's fine. You know, even when I built my other house 21, 22 years ago, it was the same thing.

(18:44 - 18:58)

I did stuff in there a lot of people weren't doing. But you look at the house now and it still looks like a normal house, but it has a little bit of element of functioning a little bit better in some of the considerations. So that was, and I built that one myself.

(18:59 - 19:05)

And that was a great experience to pass on to customers.

Amelia: A hundred percent. 

Frank: So you understand some of the pitfalls and that's always good as a designer.

(19:05 - 19:16)

The designer should be able to do their own developments, build their own houses or go through that process because they get to know their job much, much better.

Amelia: Oh, I agree. It's that hands-on experience, isn't it? 

Frank: Hands-on, very much.

(19:16 - 19:35)

Amelia: Yeah. 

Frank: So messing with their own heads. 

Amelia: So what are the take home points for people that are still not sure of their design and they're suddenly confused because someone's decided to give them advice about X and then somebody else has given them more advice about something else.

(19:36 - 19:41)

Frank: Never take it to a family function. True. Never take the plans to a family function, ever.

(19:43 - 19:50)

Now, all I can say is if you're feeling that way, step away. Chuck the plans in a cupboard or in a bag or whatever. Walk away for a period of time.

(19:50 - 19:55)

Then come back to it. That's the takeaway I feel. And do not take it to family functions.

(19:56 - 19:59)

It's the worst. I've seen it done. It's the worst.

(19:59 - 20:02)

Amelia: Oh, no. 

Frank: Yeah. So, yeah, look.

(20:03 - 20:05)

Step away. Have a break. Rethink.

(20:05 - 20:10)

Oh, and look with fresh eyes. 

Amelia: And then re-go over that with your designer. 

Frank: Go through your designer.

(20:10 - 20:13)

Yeah. Have a chat. You know, I've been thinking about these things.

(20:13 - 20:18)

Write it down on a list. That's a really good way to just write a list. You know, I've got these thoughts.

(20:19 - 20:22)

Amelia: Fantastic. All right. Well, we might wrap it up there.

(20:23 - 20:28)

Amelia: Thanks for listening today, guys. That was the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. 
 
 

Frank: Catch ya’s later.

(20:36 - 20:41)

OUTRO

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.