E39. How long does the process take to design and begin building a house?

It's the age old question, how long does the process take to design and build a house?
To answer this question, it's important to understand the individual steps involved.

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time podcast Frank and Amelia talk about each step involved in designing a new home to building a home.

Frank talks about outside factors that may affect the time frame and possible delays as a result.  Frank also talks about how time frames have changed over time to accommodate new legislation to meet minimum requirements.

Be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss an episode. We have new material each week!

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E39. How long does the process take to design and begin building a house? 

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective.

[Amelia] (0:26 - 1:01)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. I'm your host, Amelia, and once again, we're joined by Frank Geskus. 

[Frank]

Afternoon, Amelia.

[Amelia]

Hello. 

[Frank]

How are we?

[Amelia]

Pretty good for a Thursday.

[Frank]

We’re doing Thursday today.

[Amelia]

We are, yeah.

[Frank]

So, what are we going to talk about today?

[Amelia]

How long does the process take? This is such a common question, sort of one of those, how long is a ball of string?

[Frank] (1:01 - 1:04)

Yeah, totally. Which process? You want to narrow that down for me?

[Amelia] (1:04 - 1:05)

The design process.

[Frank] (1:05 - 1:17)

The design or the design and then the approvals, the compliance or your sub consultants. So, here's your building permit, so you can start building that process.

[Amelia] (1:18 - 1:24)

Well, yeah, I guess people don't always take that into consideration. So, yeah, how long does that process take?

[Frank] (1:24 - 1:28)

So, idea to permit, allowed to dig a hole to put your footings in.

[Amelia] (1:29 - 1:29)

Exactly.

[Frank] (1:29 - 1:57)

Okay, cool. Got that clarified because there's so many processes with inside the big overall process. Okay.

So, how long does it take? Very good question. Just pondering on this.

We used to be able to do this in like three months. So, hey, come design your extension, house. No worries.

Do the design, do what we had to do. Put in for planning approval. Get all the engineering, soil, whatever.

Send it to the buildings surveyor. Two weeks later, have a permit, start building.

[Amelia] (1:57 - 1:58)

In two weeks?

[Frank] (1:58 - 1:59)

No, no, no. Three months.

[Amelia] (1:59 - 2:00)

I was going to say.

[Frank] (2:00 - 2:01)

The building surveyor was two weeks.

[Amelia] (2:01 - 2:03)

Ah, no, that makes sense...

[Frank] (2:03 - 2:09)

Including the council and the council. So, they used to do the assessment in two days and then the council took two weeks, but they usually did it quicker.

[Amelia] (2:10 - 2:10)

Wow.

[Frank] (2:10 - 2:46)

Oh, those were the good days. It's like 10, 15 years ago. Now, it's like, it's blown out to like five to six months and it's driving us crazy.

All this red tape to get through now. 

[Amelia]

There's so much more red tape. 

[Frank]

There's so many more drawings we have to do.

And the applications are so much more complex and more detailed. And I don't know if it actually makes for better buildings, you know? It's like, it's just overly complicated, the process.

And I'm not talking about the actual construction of the building, but all the information they want. Yeah, like we do a thing called a sediment control drawing.

[Amelia] (2:47 - 2:49)

Do you have to do that for all properties?

[Frank] (2:49 - 3:11)

Yeah, all residential. So, some councils have it, some don't, but it's easier just to do it. So, what this does, when they dig a hole on your site, they put a fence around to stop all the sediment leaving the site and going all over the road, you know?

Just washing it off. No big deal. And they put straw bales there.

So, if the water is directed to go into the temporary stormwater connection, all the silt stays there. It doesn't leave the site. Yeah, no one does it.

[Amelia] (3:12 - 3:15)

Yeah, right. I've never seen that on a site before.

[Frank] (3:15 - 3:35)

Well, you do only on commercial, but on residential, it's pretty rare because who's policing it? 

[Amelia]

That's true. 

[Frank]

Yeah, no. Sorry. I hate to say it. Sometimes it's tokenism.

I think it's a good thing, if it's done properly, because you don't want everything going all over the driveway. But anyway, I've digressed a little bit there. This is just one of the extra things we've had to add into our drawings.

[Amelia] (3:36 - 3:47)

And we've spoken about it before. Our drawings, on average, are about, what, 35 pages long? 

[Frank]

Yep, standard.

[Amelia]

That's significantly probably more than what you would have had 10, 15 years back.

[Frank] (3:47 - 4:29)

Oh, we used to do it in 10 sheets. Easy. 

[Amelia]

Really?

[Frank]

So the whole process, so you've got an idea of a sketch. You're sitting down with your designer. You get a fee proposal.

Happy days. You start. So from that start point, we have to organise a surveyor to go to site and does a photocopy of your site.

So I'll get lots of photos done, and I'll get all levels, heights. Where's the water connection? Where's your driveway?

How close is the neighbouring property? Is there a manhole on there? I'm looking for other pipes, anything that's going to potentially affect the design.

I need a soil test. So a geotechnical investigation, that is so we can design your footings. Those two items are the first things we get done, and they can vary from two to eight weeks, depending how busy they are.

[Amelia] (4:29 - 4:31)

For each sub-consultant?

[Frank] (4:31 - 4:31)

For each one.

[Amelia] (4:32 - 4:32)

Wow.

[Frank] (4:32 - 6:37)

So we overlap that. During the past few years, it's been quite busy, but now it's down to about three to four weeks. Still a lot of work going on out there.

And those things take a little bit longer. Then we start the design, working with your client, with the customer saying, hey, I've done your four-bedroom house with two living areas, double garage, but we found this little thing. You've got to put a retaining wall or your driveway.

So there's this whole process going through. How does it actually sit on the site? So that's what we call our concept and planning drawing stage.

That can take between six to eight weeks. Okay? If you're clear on what you want, and that's the thing that we work really hard on when you come for a quote, what is your scope of works?

What's your brief? And we understand that. And then from there, we design on that basis.

You then get concepts. We'll do a sketch, do it in 3D. So it's nice 3D models that you can have a look at.

We'll give it to you electronically so it can spin on your screen at home so it can visualize a bit better. And then you come back, make changes. I'd like this window, this door.

Can you stretch this a little bit bigger? All the usual stuff as you're refining the design. From there, we come back to you in two weeks with those changes.

And then we're doing checks in the meantime with planning approval and also checking with the engineers saying, hey, how does this look? How does this stack up? Is there anything untoward?

Is it going to cost extra money to do? All those types of things. So then as we go through the design, we make the changes, send back to the client.

The client then comes back to us. Now, that part there where customer, client has had a look at the drawings we've sent or we've come into a face-to-face meeting to go over, doesn't really matter, that timeframe for the customer to come back to us to make further changes can be anywhere between one to two days to one to two months or years. 

[Amelia]

Oh, wow.

[Frank]

It's bizarre sometimes. People are all excited, but then life gets in the way. It just does.

But people forget sometimes life gets in the way and then when the project takes too long, they seem to point fingers at other people other than themselves. But that's just a normal thing in life. People forget how long things take.

[Amelia] (6:37 - 6:50)

Yeah, and I think, too, you have to realize that there's not just, you know, one person working behind the scenes. It's such a domino effect of all these other people working on different elements.

[Frank] (6:50 - 7:23)

Look, in the end, most design architects work to a certain timeframe. We work on a two-week return cycle, and that works really well for us to manage all our time with other projects as well. We're not just doing one project.

Some of the guys in there are working on 20, 30 different projects. So those changes, that's why we say two weeks, generally get back earlier, subject to the workload. So from there, usually three meetings.

We can nail it and then it's prepared for planning approval. We submit it on behalf of the customer. And one of the other questions I got asked a little while ago, who organises the council?

[Amelia] (7:23 - 7:27)

That's a really good question. 

[Frank]

We do that. 

[Amelia]

Oh, we do.

[Frank] (7:27 - 10:01)

Yeah. So we fill in the planning applications and we deal with the planners and go through that process. That's something else that's got more complex over time.

It used to be really simple, dealing with the councils with the planning schemes. Now they're these ridiculous long documents and got some very strange things called overlays, like flight path of planes, or noise attenuation, or smell attenuation, or there's a cute furry animal that's been spotted in your area and you've got to maintain a certain amount of bush on there. There's all sorts of weird and wonderful things, and that's things we have to prepare for as part of the design.

So when we submit it in Tasmania, there's a statutory 42-day time limit on an application. It has to be resolved. Now, the council can come back, hey, we don't understand everything.

We've got some extra questions for you. It's called a request for more information. So we need to address those items if something's not clear, so we clarify that.

But if there is a bigger dispute saying, no, we disagree, you can't build that close to the boundary due to these reasons under the scheme, and then we're in discussion over the planning schemes, that can take time. I know I've had some doozies there as well, different interpretations of the planning scheme, and everyone in the office has. And that's always a challenge, and then we notify the customer.

So that 42 days, because the clock stops when they ask for more information, it could go to six, eight, ten weeks. 

[Amelia]

So that's just for planning?

[Frank]

Yeah, but normally 42 days, we allow for that.

Also, people can object to your development. 

[Amelia]

During planning? 

[Frank]

During planning.  It gets advertised. If it's a discretionary application, you can see it in the paper, go down to your local council, go online, have a look at it, and anyone can object. The beauty in our municipality, Launceston here, you've got to have three objections before it actually goes to a council vote.

In other councils, it's one. So some clown's not happy with it for whatever dumb reason, and I say clowns, because I've had some absolute nutters come in, not happy about something, which is totally irrelevant, or it blocks their view. Well, they don't, no one owns a view.

So you get all this stuff, and you're dealing with people that are unreasonable because they think they've lost something that they never had in the first place. But some are legitimate. Some of it I totally get.

So, and man, that can stretch out the process for months. 

[Amelia]

I reckon. 

[Frank]

So most normal residential is not too bad. So you're still working your 42 days. We spoke about six to eight weeks for the development. I'm waiting for my survey and soil test.

There's, let's just say, I said, you know, two to eight weeks, let's split the difference. Four, you know, I'll worry up to 14. So I'm already up to nearly 20 weeks.

[Amelia] (10:02 - 10:03)

Yeah, there you go.

[Frank] (10:04 - 10:04)

It adds up pretty quick?

[Amelia] (10:04 - 10:05)

Yeah.

[Frank] (10:05 - 10:47)

Okay, I'll get my planning permit. It's go. I'll tell the structural engineer, we're right to finish.

Let's go. And then we're organising the structural engineering, updating our drawings, finishing our drawings. We get a thermal assessment, which is your energy assessment star rating for a Nathers Rating.

And then we have to coordinate. You have water connections. We go through a quality check process.

Yeah. And sometimes if you've got a wastewater, I've got another consultant designing a wastewater system, you know, septic or something like that. You've got to coordinate those.

And then once you coordinate, we do the final quality check, make all the changes, double check everything. And then it goes to the next person. That's your building surveyor.

[Amelia] (10:47 - 10:49)

And they have to sign off on it?

[Frank] (10:49 - 11:03)

Well, they have to check it. They are your compliance check. Once they've done that, they're insured for all this.

It then goes to council's permit authority. And then the permit authority says, yes, I agree with the building surveyor. Here's your building permit.

[Amelia] (11:03 - 11:08)

So you are not allowed to build until you have that building permit.

[Frank] (11:08 - 11:29)

That's exactly right. But there's one bit we're forgetting. 

[Amelia]

Plumbing?

[Frank]

Plumbing. Yes. That's it.

So plumbing permits are a separate application. Now, we do that at the same time. The challenge we have with councils at the moment, they've become overloaded.

And it's become a lot heavier in the compliance side and their checking. So what used to be a two-week process is now turning into a six-week process.

[Amelia] (11:30 - 11:30)

Wow.

[Frank] (11:30 - 12:01)

And ever since COVID and all these extra rules come in, they're not blaming COVID for this. It's just some more rules have come in. So for us to finish the drawings, it might take four to eight weeks subject to the engineer.

And then you've got council, let's say six weeks. Split the difference there again. So it adds up really fast.

Yeah. What does that make it? So 14,6. So four weeks to finish our drawings. And the engineer, if he gets it out on time, because they're busy. And then the council, wow.

[Amelia] (12:03 - 12:04)

What are we up to?

[Frank] (12:05 - 12:14)

Just doing my calcs here. Then six weeks for planning. It gives us four weeks to finish all the building, engineering, thermal assessments.

That gives us 28 weeks.

[Amelia] (12:14 - 12:17)

28 weeks. Yeah. Minimum.

[Frank] (12:17 - 12:53)

Well, minimum, yeah. 

[Amelia]

Roughly.

[Frank]

I'm talking average here. Okay. But sometimes we can get about quicker because, hey, it's planning exempt. Save six weeks.

Thanks for coming. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, that's good. 

[Frank]

Yeah. But what's interesting in there, that you've got this approval process for planning and building. So it's six weeks for your planning minimum. And now we're talking six weeks to get your building permits.

That's 12 weeks. I haven't done anything. And I can't control any of that.

I can't control what the regulatory authority takes. And you could have TasWater in there saying something about it too. You know, saying, oh, you're building a bit close to our sewer line. That's okay. We're doing this. Okay.

Can you do a CCW thing?

[Amelia] (12:54 - 12:54)

CCW?

[Frank] (12:54 - 13:00)

Yeah. I can't remember what it was. It was something certified works to prove that you're not going to affect their infrastructure.

[Amelia] (13:00 - 13:01)

Yeah, right.

[Frank] (13:01 - 13:04)

So that's just the things you've got to do. That's a lot, isn't it?

[Amelia] (13:04 - 13:09)

That is a lot. That's more than what I thought. And that's just for a standard house.

[Frank] (13:09 - 13:10)

Or an extension.

[Amelia] (13:10 - 13:12)

Or an extension. The same for an extension.

[Frank] (13:12 - 13:13)

It's the same process.

[Amelia] (13:13 - 13:14)

Wow.

[Frank] (13:14 - 13:25)

Just putting a deck on the back of your house. And if you trigger all those things, it could be, you know, they're a little bit quicker because it's not that complicated to design. But it's interesting, isn't it? How they can stack up really quickly. Real quick.

[Amelia] (13:25 - 13:25)

Yeah.

[Frank] (13:26 - 13:36)

And that's what we're facing. We're struggling to meet, you know, what we used to do. Because what used to take two weeks in certain areas, two weeks in another area, we've now doubled, tripled.

[Amelia] (13:36 - 13:37)

It's just all blown out.

[Frank] (13:37 - 13:58)

So we try to advise customers, look, you've got to allow for this time. Because we still get people coming, oh, I need this sorted in about, you know, I want to start by, well, what are we now? February. I want to start building in June. And they go, well, everything goes swimmingly and on time. Yes, possibly.

But we can't guarantee it. And it's frustrating. I'd love to guarantee it.

But we used to be able to guarantee it. It's just so many things pop up.

[Amelia] (13:58 - 14:02)

Yeah. And there's just so many other elements at play, isn't there? 

[Frank] (14:02 - 14:16)

Yep. And you've got to deal with TasWater applications too. So we do that as well. So you don't have to deal with the council.

You don't have to deal with TasWater, with the Sewer and Water Authority in Tasmania. And you don't have to deal with any of the survey, soil, structural, thermal consultants.

[Amelia] (14:16 - 14:36)

So just to make it super clear, when you go through council, because I know people have come in and they've said, I've got planning. I can go and build. I can go dig a hole.

Everything can get started. No, you can't. 

[Frank]

No, no.

[Amelia]

You have to go through that building permit and the plumbing permit. 

[Frank] (14:36 - 14:45)

Yeah, exactly. 

[Amelia]

On top of your planning as well. 

[Frank]

You know, I find it really disturbing about people starting their planning is that the builder actually started work. 

[Amelia]

Really? 

[Frank]

And the builder should know this stuff.

[Amelia] (14:45 - 14:46)

You would think a builder would know that.

[Frank] (14:47 - 14:54)

Yeah. And the majority of builders do. But occasionally a couple go, oh, I didn't think it would be that important. Or some dumb excuse that works in their timeframe. So it causes other problems.

[Amelia] (14:54 - 14:57)

Oh, it would. I guess that's then illegal works.

[Frank] (14:57 - 14:58)

It becomes that way, yes.

[Amelia] (14:58 - 14:59)

Yeah.

[Frank] (14:59 - 15:02)

Yes, yes, yes. But also it can actually be detrimental to their licence.

[Amelia] (15:03 - 15:04)

Oh, so they could lose their licence.

[Frank] (15:04 - 15:36)

Get a wrap over the knuckles. 

[Amelia]

I reckon. 

[Frank]

So you've got to be conscious of that. So you've got to allow plenty of time. Now, there's one good thing about some of this. It might seem like a long time, but if you plan, anyone plans this well, and you've got to spend time choosing all the stuff that's going into your extension or your house.

You're going to have to choose your carpet, your paint, what type of windows do I want, what type of skirtings, door handles, robe doors, tiles, shower scrapes, floor grates, toilets, whatever. You've got to choose all this stuff. So why wouldn't you use that time to do all that research?

[Amelia] (15:36 - 15:39)

Makes sense to use all that time. 

[Frank] (15:39 - 15:40)

Yep. It's amazing how many people don't.

[Amelia] (15:40 - 15:42)

Really? 

[Frank] (15:42 - 16:04)

Yep. 

[Amelia]

They wait until the last minute. 

[Frank]

I don't get it. We advise you need to start doing this. We even offer a free spreadsheet to use.

You can go check off all this stuff. And then when the builder knows exactly what you want, then you can price it. Happy days.

Anyway, not everyone is that proactive, unfortunately. When you work with project builders and stuff like that, they have that process to do all the selections. And it's a great system.

[Amelia] (16:04 - 16:05)

Oh, definitely.

[Frank] (16:05 - 16:20)

In that sense. But do your own research there. Find out what you like.

See how much the difference in taps cost, or the kitchen sink, or an undermount kitchen sink. And look at the cost difference. Go to the joiners.

It's a great time to do your research.

[Amelia] (16:20 - 16:23)

Oh, definitely. And we have resources here that we can provide.

[Frank] (16:24 - 16:36)

Oh, yeah, 100%. But it's just good to be aware of everyone understands timing, what's involved, and then how we can assist. But you might as well use your time proactively in that to ensure you know what you want in your house.

[Amelia] (16:36 - 16:49)

All right. How long do these permits last for? Because you've said that these can stretch out over a longer period.

What happens if things get drawn out for too long? Yep. Are your permits then obsolete?

[Frank] (16:50 - 16:50)

Yes.

[Amelia] (16:50 - 16:50)

Wow.

[Frank] (16:51 - 17:31)

So you've got a couple of years on your planning. So on your DA, Development Application Planning Permit, you've got a couple of years on that. You can apply for extension subject to what it is.

If you make a substantial start, i.e., let's just say you do an extension and you're putting a shed in the backyard and putting a deck and a few other things. Things don't go to plan, the budget isn't quite there, but you need the shed and you get the shed up. But it's already gone in as one permit and you've started with your shed.

By doing that, it's called substantial commencement. So then the planning permit stays open. The building permit is limited, you know.

It goes year by year. So you really need to make sure that you get that extended because if it runs out, you've got to get it reassessed again and you're paying all that money to get it reassessed.

[Amelia] (17:31 - 17:34)

Yeah, it seems like a bit of double-handling.

[Frank] (17:34 - 17:45)

So you've got to be very careful on that or the timing of it because I've had plenty of people come in, oh, yeah, we're ready to go now. What do you mean? It says your permit ran out a year ago or six months ago or a couple of weeks ago.

[Amelia] (17:46 - 17:46)

Oh, no.

[Frank] (17:47 - 17:51)

We've been able to talk our way through that. But you've got to be really careful of that, you know.

[Amelia] (17:51 - 18:04)

So what are the take-home points for anyone that is looking to do an extension or a new home, they're not sure about the process, are there resources they can have access to where they can look these things up?

[Frank] (18:04 - 18:13)

Well, it's hard on the timing. But look, on our website, we have some of that shown there, the timing of how some of these work out.

[Amelia] (18:13 - 18:13)

And the stages?

[Frank] (18:14 - 18:35)

And the stages, that's all shown on there too. But that's just generic. Each house can be different there too.

So you need to talk to a designer or architect. They'll be able to help you through all the things. For your particular project, you might have to have some specific boundary work done.

You may have to have a special report done because of your location. There's all sorts of things. Not everything is straightforward.

[Amelia] (18:36 - 18:46)

And I guess you also have to look at when your builder is available too. Because if it takes, you know, six months at least to get everything through, will your builder even be available then?

[Frank] (18:47 - 18:49)

Yeah, say that will happen. Yeah. He's not available, lost your spot.

[Amelia] (18:50 - 18:56)

Yeah. Especially if things are delayed, which I mean, some of these are unforeseen circumstances. But yeah, it can be a challenge, I guess.

[Frank] (18:57 - 18:57)

Yeah.

[Amelia] (18:57 - 18:58)

Have a backup even.

[Frank] (18:59 - 19:06)

Well, it's hard to do that as well. You just got to get your slot and make sure you get things done. Be proactive.

Try and help shorten the timeframe to a point.

[Amelia] (19:06 - 19:11)

All right. Well, we might wrap it up there, folks. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

[Frank] (19:11 - 19:12)

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (19:20 - 19:25)

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.