E53. Structural Engineering with Special Guest Andrew (Part 1)

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time podcast Frank and Amelia welcome special guest Andrew from RES Engineering to talk all about his role as a Senior Structural Engineer and what elements impact how a home is engineered.  

Andrew shares some great insights about blocks that have had large levels of fill added to the site and how this can impact the structure and how nature can also play a part in how a home is engineered. 

This is part 1 of a 2 part podcast episode. Stay tuned because the very next episode will continue the conversation about structural engineering.  

If you loved this episode or any of the other Building Design, Prime Time podcast episodes be sure to subscribe, there is a new episode released each week! 

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E53. Structural engineering with Andrew (Part 1)

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective.

[Amelia] (0:35 - 0:43)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design Primetime Podcast. I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:43 - 0:44)

Hey Amelia, how are we?

[Amelia] (0:44 - 0:46)

Happy Thursday, different day.

[Frank] (0:46 - 0:47)

Yeah we're doing a different day.

[Amelia] (0:48 - 0:52)

Different day, yep. And another special guest, welcome Andrew from Res Engineering.

[Andrew] (0:53 - 0:53)

Hi Amelia.

[Amelia] (0:53 - 0:54)

How's it going?

[Andrew] (0:54 - 0:55)

Pretty good.

[Amelia] (0:55 - 0:57)

You've come from down south of the state.

[Andrew] (0:57 - 0:58)

Yeah, the main end.

[Amelia] (0:59 - 1:00)

The main end, oh.

[Frank] (1:00 - 1:02)

We could debate that, at least we've got the sunny end here.

[Amelia] (1:02 - 1:05)

We could definitely debate that.

[Frank] (1:05 - 1:06)

No parochialism here.

[Amelia] (1:07 - 1:13)

So Andrew, you are a Structural Engineer, a Senior Structural Engineer, I got that wrong, is that right?

[Andrew] (1:14 - 1:28)

Comes with age. Senior tacked on there at some point. 

[Frank]

So you've become an early senior?...Not quite.

[Andrew]

Never thought about it until now. 

[Frank]

Thanks, made you feel really old.

[Amelia] (1:29 - 1:30)

It's alright, I'm sure Frank's older.

[Frank] (1:31 - 1:31)

Oh man.

[Amelia] (1:32 - 1:34)

First question, so what is a Structural Engineer?

[Andrew] (1:34 - 1:53)

Oh we design buildings among other things, bridges, road infrastructure and we have a civil engineering degree behind us that does a little bit of everything so we can go on and specialise later. In my case with buildings mostly. 

[Frank]

They make sure the stuff that we draw doesn't fall down.

[Amelia] (1:53 - 1:56)

Well that makes sense, you don't want that to happen.

[Frank] (1:56 - 2:06)

No it's a bit embarrassing. 

[Andrew]

Yeah technically it's two sides, two sides of that. 

[Frank]

It is isn't it.

[Andrew]

That aspect of it is one you don't want it to break and two you don't want it to bend too much.

[Frank] (2:07 - 2:10)

No that's true but everything bends and moves though don't they?

[Andrew] (2:10 - 2:10)

Everything.

[Frank] (2:11 - 2:23)

Yeah so there's an expectation you know there's going to be a little bit of movement in, we'll talk about houses but in housing yeah there's going to be a bit of movement especially when you're sitting on stuff that isn't real good and we're talking about soils.

[Amelia] (2:23 - 2:29)

Yeah so what actually affects what you can build on a site and how it's engineered?

[Andrew] (2:29 - 3:44)

I'll stick to Australia and New Zealand but it does vary from area of the world what the common construction practices are but in our local areas yeah the type of soil so if you have a clay area then the footings and what holds the house up will have to be a lot more robust than if you have a sandy or rocky area that doesn't change much when it wets and dries as well as what's below the ground it's what materials are you using and construction type will they all sort of interact like a tiled roof will weigh a lot more than a sheet roof so the building that's below will be built slightly just differently sometimes radically differently. 

[Amelia]

Yeah okay 

[Frank]

and then to throw that in you might be in a landslip area. 

[Andrew]

Yep there's latent conditions like might be an old dam on the site.

[Frank]

Yep had that. 

[Andrew]

Often some very strange things happen when trees are removed and then everyone's forgotten that there were once trees there and then water tables change or the root systems sort of start to decompose and then. 

[Frank]

That's actually a big one that people don't think about isn't it?

[Andrew]

Yeah until it happens and then everyone around the area becomes very aware of why is this thing tilting why are those windows cracking.

[Frank] (3:44 - 4:01)

Yeah well there's a gap between the window and the cladding yeah but what we're talking about is trees being cut down there's a stump the stump might be buried all the root material's still there and letting it rot rather than removing it would be pretty detrimental to the site even if you're near it it can be detrimental.

[Amelia] (4:01 - 4:03)

Rotting soil we'd like that.

[Frank] (4:03 - 4:11)

The root systems are rotting and it's funny how it's not funny but the actual effect it has on the site can be quite dramatic.

[Amelia] (4:11 - 4:25)

So how does it work with like I know Frank you've mentioned in earlier podcasts about say you've got a site that is full of fill they've you know chucked a whole lot of goodness knows what on top of goodness knows what.

[Frank] (4:26 - 4:30)

Yes and to make it look nice and they'll seed it and it looks very nice yes.

[Amelia] (4:30 - 4:37)

And I imagine that has a huge bearing on how it's engineered because you need something fairly solid to sort of build on.

[Frank] (4:38 - 4:46)

Yeah I'll let Andrew because I've got no doubt you've done plenty of projects we've come along well you know the site and it hasn't been prepared very well.

[Andrew] (4:46 - 5:21)

Oh yeah the vegetated surface can hide a lot of surprises on old farmlands you'll find makeshift landfills sometimes and then move over slightly and you're on natural ground so there's always potential for surprises to be lurking underneath others there's some subdivisions that are just opening up now one on the old brickworks site down in New Town because it's quite close to Hobart. 

[Frank]

Yep it's a brownfield site essentially isn't it. There's some known challenges in developing that site and another one at an Austin's Ferry was used for sawmilling I think.

[Amelia] (5:21 - 5:28)

Oh I think that's right actually because I've got a family member that has just built in Austin's Ferry and said that it was an old sawmill.

[Andrew] (5:29 - 5:46)

Yeah so to access all this flat land they just back in the old days they just bulldozed stuff sideways so you might have shallow bedrock up the hill a bit and then 10 meters of fill where they've just filled in a little sort of v-shaped area of the land so that they could use it as an industrial site.

[Amelia] (5:46 - 5:47)

Wow.

[Frank] (5:48 - 6:00)

I think we had that prospect remember I was talking about one um used to be an old trucking and sawmill and all that and they chucked about four or five meters of stuff on top and I say stuff because we found building materials four meters down.

[Amelia] (6:01 - 6:01)

Oh wow.

[Andrew] (6:02 - 6:10)

Yeah things can be old not what they seem when you divide up the land into neat packages and put a crossover from the road to the to the block.

[Frank] (6:10 - 6:13)

Looks nice your dream block and then underneath it's rubbish.

[Amelia] (6:13 - 6:14)

It's hideous.

[Frank] (6:14 - 6:15)

The old showgrounds in Launceston.

[Amelia] (6:16 - 6:16)

Yes.

[Frank] (6:17 - 6:23)

You know we had to drill down two, two and a half meters to get to a decent bottom but it was known some of them they're not disclosed are they?

[Andrew] (6:24 - 6:34)

And the decisions that are made in the planning stages of developing some of these blocks can lead to vastly different outcomes if they've done investigation and can deal with what's there.

[Frank] (6:35 - 6:51)

Where I find it really challenging is where it's an old sports field that might have been there for 40, 50 years as part of a school and they are literally pushed out topsoiled great it's just a sports field. 50 years later someone wants to turn that into a subdivision unless you do use historical aerial photographs you actually don't know what’s under there.

[Amelia] (6:52 - 7:11)

So how does that work then with trying to engineer something that maybe can't be done so say the client wants a concrete slab for example are there times when say for example there's lots of fill that you maybe can't do a concrete slab or you have to find a different way of doing it how does it all work?

[Andrew] (7:12 - 7:29)

Most things are achievable but it's how much money do you want to throw at the problem is the is the question that you often come back to as you can say oh you can have this shaped or locate it you can locate a building here but one of the main options are sink huge steel piles into the ground and then sit it on those.

[Amelia] (7:30 - 7:31)

But that would be quite costly.

[Andrew] (7:31 - 7:38)

The next question would be do you want to spend that much money to get the result or do you find another way around it move the building.

[Frank] (7:38 - 7:46)

That's also based on the quality of the geotechnical reports or soil tests as we call them but you're actually getting into geotech.

[Andrew] (7:46 - 8:25)

Sometimes you don't know what's down at the at the limit of what the excavator can reach to put a say concrete pier into the ground you'll only know once you like you have to you have to sink some money into it to get an excavator to site or the builder does or whoever's making the decisions get what seems like a reasonable sized machine for the job and find out if it's up to it. 

[Frank]

Yeah they can't actually do it yeah exactly right. 

[Andrew]

Reassess if they find stuff that's really soft at quite a deep level then just have to change have to go well we thought that this what we showed on the drawings would commonly work but now we've got to react to this new information which is only during construction is the only time it can.

[Frank] (8:25 - 9:00)

But also that's where I come back to getting quality geotech because sometimes a soil test is done generic it might be sold as part of the block. Historical knowledge is gold you know if it's reclaimed land highways have been pushed through and they've pushed the soil to fill in a gully or whatever it may be that historical knowledge is absolute gold now real estate agents don't necessarily know that so if there's any suspicion you'd recommend to get a high quality and probably a more extensive geotechnical investigation to cover that because there's nothing worse like you say you go to site and go well this ain't going to work once they start excavating.

[Andrew] (9:01 - 9:22)

Yeah sometimes you do have to be a bit reactive during that below the ground stage of construction but other times you can have a go at planning ahead and certainly seeing what the neighbours have done 

[Frank]

or the condition of neighbouring properties 

[Andrew]

Or looking around with your eyes wide open you run into a problem on a project years ago and you might be using that knowledge to apply it to…

[Frank] (9:23 - 9:44)

Experience and historical knowledge is really really important in a lot of cases because this stuff isn't regulated you know no one regulates someone doing a subdivision stuff that's been done 10 years 5 years 50 years ago to a site no one's regulating it no one's keeping a record of this stuff and it might look fine for the last 50 years it might have looked fine but in reality it's rubbish.

[Andrew] (9:44 - 10:17)

And sometimes it's not just an engineer at the table sometimes it's the builder certainly the building surveyor yeah sometimes the person whose responsibility it might not be is sometimes talking to other stakeholders saying well the builder could be coming to an engineer with a building problem and saying you know I've hit this thing have you ever seen that before have you seen that problem can work the other way too we can say go to the building surveyor and say you know we've hit this sort of hurdle yeah that could be something like the excavator driver can't order piers through these floating boulders that no one not even

[Frank] (10:17 - 10:24)

rubble you know you've got to change from board piers to screw and steel piles 

[Andrew] (10:24 - 10:28)

Yeah or the ground conditions change you move five meters and you find something completely different. 

[Frank] (10:28 – 10:45)

You know my favourite one was years ago got a call from an excavator driver we got a problem on site can you come and have a look the ground's collapsing okay go out there dug a bit further and you know when you go to the beach you're near the water you're not in the water you dig down and it all collapses because you hit like a water table that's what they hit 

[Amelia] (10:45 – 10:46)

oh wow 

[Frank] (10:46 – 10:46)

but what it was a disused council pipe stormwater sewer not sure it was asbestos concrete and oh that wasn't really the problem but the problem was it was still water was still coming through but for some reason it was cracked at this point in this huge area was wet underneath and it all collapsed like you're being at the beach but think of the scale this was like two to three meters down and all the sides are collapsing.

[Amelia] (11:09 – 11:10)

oh wow 

[Andrew] (11:10 – 11:22)

yeah sometimes it's a real see how it goes kind of approach when you're next to a creek and you go I think we won't have a problem here let's just open up a trench and then we'll know what we're dealing with. 

[Frank] (11:22 – 11:22)

yep 

[Amelia] (11:22 – 11:24)

And sometimes it's a can of worms 

[Andrew] (11:24 – 11:33)

or something that looks great one week you'll have a flash flood over the weekend and the builders coming back going I've got a real mess to sort out here what's the best way to clean it up 

[Frank] (11:33 - 11:44)

But they do come for advice builders designers everyone comes to you guys for advice and you're going to make decisions on site sometimes you've got to make decisions that they're not happy about either. 

[Andrew] (11:44 – 11:46)

Yeah sometimes you have to be the bearer of bad news 

[Frank] (11:46 – 11:54)

But sometimes I've been on site with engineers and stuff and we're just talking about it with the builder and says well we don't have a lot of options here.  

[Andrew] (11:54 – 12:07)

yeah and sometimes it's at all stages of uh building a house they can go oh we put this rectangular thing the wrong way around and you just go well it's unfortunate but you’re going to have to get the crane back and lift it back up and spin it 

[Frank] (12:07 - 12:14)

Yeah, yeah they haven't followed the drawings correctly and then you've got to make a call says well sorry you got to do it as per the drawings.

[Andrew] (12:14 - 12:17)

Sometimes things can go astray you're like oh you're in luck it didn't really matter. 

[Frank] (12:17 - 12:17)

Yeah 

[Andrew] (12:17 - 12:19)

here's an easy fix 

[Frank] (12:17 - 12:32)

yeah but then it's just getting clarity but this is where a good builder it rarely happens if they do things the wrong way but it could be their subbies you know some of them engaged to put up the steel or install trusses you know lintels.

[Andrew] (12:32 – 12:42)

We got someone in that put the floor framing the opposite direction to what was shown because they'd just done a job that had joists running across the short direction of the room 

[Frank] (12:42 – 12:44)

And they switched it around?

[Andrew] (12:44 – 12:48)

You get sort of you do get calls for sos's coming in like

[Frank] (12:48 – 12:53)

Is that like dopey bugger builders like seriously it's on the drawings 

[Andrew] (12:53 – 13:02)

oh there's definite cases that I've seen where they uh didn't supervise the apprentices and you end up with something happened to be changed or redone sometimes

[Frank] (13:02 - 13:32)

I remember seeing that with a suspended concrete slab and they used a product called Bondek it's a steel tray and it goes in a certain direction and talking to someone did the inspection they sent me a photo check this out they put it same thing with your flooring and they put it in the wrong direction opposite to what the drawings were so then it had to all be recalculated re-supported reo changed around a little bit and then they could continue because they already cut all the sheets same with your floor you got to recalculate it will it work won't it work what's sitting on

[Andrew] (13:32 - 13:53)

 yeah I can think of plenty of not so uh harrowing stories where you have a near miss or you catch something and yeah they ask something just in the right point in time or they say I can't I had all the bars pointing the wrong way so I just heated them up and bent them over the other way does that matter and you go oh this is your lucky day because it didn't really make a difference in this case.

[Frank] (13:53 - 13:54)

But it's amazing how many times it does 

[Andrew]

yeah 

[Frank] (13:55 – 14:09)

you know because when you heat up steel loses its strength obviously but there's some buggers out there uh I think they can cut and shut or my favourite is plumbing where they cut out bits of timber or steel within a floor to fit their plumbing 

[Andrew] (14:09 – 14:13)

I have seen walls hanging there with an air gap between them and the floor 

[Frank] (14:13 – 14:19)

Yeah, yeah it's just and you look at it even if you're not in the building game it looks wrong 

[Amelia]

yep 

[Frank] (14:20 – 14:24)

so what makes them think it was a good idea in the first place to chop things out just bizarre 

[Andrew] (14:24 - 14:36)

Sometimes it's the way that trades interact as well can throw curveballs on site like the plasterer are not understanding that they can't just go and sheet something and then people have to go and knock holes in them 

[Frank] (14:36 - 14:47)

Well exactly right, but even then I think it comes down to lack of planning and communication you know if plumbers have to cut and shut structure there's lack of planning and communication at the very early stage

[Andrew] (14:47 - 14:52)

It can be lots of things yeah builders under pressure to got to get this thing done by the end of week 

[Frank] (14:52 – 14:55)

Not supervising had to go to another site send people out to another site. 

[Andrew] (14:55 - 15:00)

Send people out to do part of the work but without that overview to hold it all together 

[Frank] (15:00 – 15:30)

yep exactly. One thing I've noticed is when we do extensions and renovations that sometimes you you've got the building there you just use a house two-story houses doing renovations extensions sometimes some of the most trickiest purely because everything's covered in you go into an existing house it's a house it's fully sheeted carpet everything and you're about to pull this thing apart pull out walls pull out bits of flooring extending off it and you actually don't know what's behind hidden behind in the floors in the walls and the roof.

[Amelia] (15:30 - 15:33)

And how do you even know what elements are structural 

[Frank] (15:33 - 15:41)

you can make an assessment on that I believe you know we get you guys in to have a look at certain buildings but sometimes you can't see it. 

[Andrew] (15:41 - 16:08)

Sometimes with alteration works you're working on clues and partial information but the way our building act is set up as it should be is you have to have a plan so sometimes you just put in your best guess at how something will go together but you have to put it on there open it up and have a look so you have to have something on the drawing to get permission to start the work but then once you start the work sometimes you have to say to them call us back when we can see what…

[Frank] (16:08 – 16:11)

Yeah once you've got opened up let's have a look pretty common thing to do 

[Andrew] (16:08 – 16:21)

Yeah it sort of feels at a gut feel level it feels inadequate sometimes we'll work it out later

[Frank]

But there's no other choice though 

[Andrew]

That’s the best you can do yeah 

[Frank] (16:21 - 16:39)

Yeah because you cannot physically see so if you can't see it how do you make the call so you can certainly work out some of the load-bearing components I've seen you know and that comes down to experience hence you're senior from an experience point of view because you would have seen a lot of these things and there's certain construction techniques that you say yep that's how they used to do it back then

[Andrew] (16:39 - 16:50)

Yeah, yeah sometimes you can make educated guesses at um what's been enclosed based on its age and material as you're not a hundred percent but you're just close enough to it

[Frank] (16:50 - 16:59)

but then you can once they actually get into the works you can go back reassess it do an instruction if you have to and guide and work with the designer and the builder on site 

[Andrew] (16:59 - 17:14)

Yeah sometimes why it's impossible to work to work on a sensible square metre rate because uh something that's small and built around an existing building can be a very different proposition to having a blank slate coming in and building it from the ground up 

[Frank] (17:14 - 17:28)

Yep exactly right, because you've got a clear pathway this one you a lot of double handling triple handling of material spaces especially if the clients are living in the house too when you're renovating and extending it, it makes it interesting. 

[Andrew] (17:28 - 17:33)

yeah happen to um weatherproof it and secure it as you go 

[Frank] (17:33 - 17:43)

Especially upper floor extensions they're not as popular as they used to be because of the sheer cost you know you're putting another floor on top of a house and very doable good idea but sometimes it's not cost effective.

[Andrew] (17:43 - 17:56)

yeah similar to where we started with the what happens if you've got a site with deep fill it can be a case of how much money do you want to throw at the problem to get your first choice result

[Frank] (17:54 - 18:12)

Certainly yeah so we work with a lot of engineers and work with yourself you know for us documentation we'll talk about drawings in my lifetime in this game there's a huge variation in quality of drawings and details what's your take on all that?

[Andrew] (18:12 - 18:35)

Back in the day before my time builders were entrusted with a lot you got a floor plan and houses built in the 50s you get the floor plan approved by council but then it was standard practice that if you decided you wanted your lounge room over the other side of the building that was completely allowable now it's all uh yeah it's a lot more complicated what you can and can't do 

[Frank] (18:35 - 18:53)

But also the housing back then was a lot more standardized room sizes you know they had standard timber sizes they were easy to calculate pitch the roofs do the floors it was all standardized but now we've got these ginormous open spaces big windows big spans of ceilings and roofs it's not possible anymore to keep it simple.

[Andrew] (18:53 - 18:59)

Definitely a lot more um architecturally designed housing this century than last for sure.

[Frank] (18:59 - 19:25)

But it's not even architecture it's just in your project homes you know your open plan living kitchen dining you could have a room that's like 12 meters long by five meters wide and it's nothing unusual that's a big span big and big walls without you know lateral restraint on them as well big windows 

[Andrew]

yeah yeah 

[Frank]

There's a demand more for bigger glass bigger sliding doors and all that and that makes it hard for you guys you got to come up with more clever solutions 

[Andrew] (19:25 - 19:36)

Yeah I think if you if you went back a generation no one would be even thinking of uh using laminated glass for atrium floors yeah they can see down from the yeah from the upper story 

[Frank] (19:36 - 20:16)

But even like three to four hundred kilo windows going in to houses where they've got to be craned in. 

 [Amelia]

Is that common now? 

[Frank]

So it's certainly there you know huge windows and especially you think of the double glazed units like in Australia we've got double glazed units it's normal

[Amelia]

It's common, yep

[Frank]

In Europe it's triple you know and triple I've seen some just recently they put triple glazed windows big ones in and I was talking to the builder and see there was a 430 kilo lift 

[Amelia]

wow 

[Frank]

So for a structural engineer I mean it's not just holding it in place it's like holding it like it's really, really heavy so if you've got a sliding door you can't afford the bottom track to bend at all.

[Amelia] (20:16 - 20:28)

I guess that would be a huge problem if a client was to change their mind during the build instead of having you know a window they're like oh I want actually I'm gonna have sliding door put right here how does that affect a home structurally? 

[Andrew] (20:28 - 20:51)

Sometimes we have to direct the conversation in a way going look these are the downsides of what you've decided, give them the chance to re-evaluate yeah sometimes there's a lot of cost in in making a change doesn't seem to the homeowner to really be that much of 

[Frank]

A big deal 

[Amelia]

yeah yeah it's like but there's already a hole there you know you're just changing it to a door

[Frank] (20:51 - 21:15)

My favourite one is changing from a sliding door to a bi-fold so a bifold door that folds back on itself yes everyone loves them like great pictures personally they drive me nuts but anyway everyone thinks oh they just go in easy but they're usually hung off the top so a sliding door runs on wheels majority of bi-folds hang off a track on the top so you've got to put a piece of structure to actually support the top of the door 

[Amelia] (21:15 - 21:20)

That's a fair bit of weight that has to carry from you know the top side of the building 

[Frank] (21:20 - 21:23)

you could be two to three hundred kilos per leaf 

[Amelia]

Yeah right 

[Frank] (21:23 - 21:34)

you know and you've got to hold but if it's a change they've already put a lintel in to hold the roof which was fine that's what was intended to do now they hang a bifold off it might bend a bit.

[Andrew] (21:34 - 21:40)

Yeah it's uh cases like that you're really hoping the builder keeps everyone in the loop rather than just plows ahead 

[Frank] (21:40 - 22:08)

well my yeah well that's a fair point of seeing somewhere they haven't my you know my favourite thing I've seen in the past is where don't need that piece of steel I'm gonna put a piece of timber in that's easier well not just whoops it's really well I don't follow the plan I suppose is where I want to go here they're gonna stick to the plan but I have seen where they've done substituted engineered beams with something else and it's caused a problem and I remember one was a sliding door they did it and the sliding door wouldn't open 

[Amelia] (22:08 - 22:09)

Because of the weight 

[Frank] (22:09 - 22:10)

because the weight of the roof 

[Amelia]

Yeah right 

[Frank] (22:11 - 22:26)

They substituted this piece of steel with timber now you can certainly do replacement that's fine but normal in normal houses that we design these between the top of the door to where you're going to support the roof there's only 300 millimetres sometimes and once it bends you can't fix it

[Amelia]

No 

[Andrew] (22:26 - 22:35)

Yeah and then they sometimes have issues with making changes that affect either the size of the building or the appearance of the shell.

[Frank] (22:35 - 22:39)

Affects planning thermal yeah you know you get to get your energy assessment. 

[Andrew] (22:39 - 22:49)

Yeah that's one that often throws a spanner in the works when um people want to make a slight aesthetic change and then you go well you've got to make up for that loss in thermal efficiency.

[Frank]

Yep and it takes time

[Andrew] (22:51 – 23:24)

It can be unforeseen consequences of making any change on the run whether that's a change to um take things off the build or add things on most of the time things from our end will get downsized as a project is planned because for example people will say oh we don't want a column in the corner we want it to be two seamless uh panels of glass and then you go I think you'll find that if you just put a steel little square steel column in the corner the cost will make you want to do that the cost saving will make you want to go in that direction 

[Frank] (23:24 - 23:32)

But people see these wonderful pictures of you know corners of a roof floating looks beautiful but something's still got to hold it up there

[Andrew] (23:32 - 24:01)

Or big projections off um off the side of a building 

[Frank]

yeah big roofs 

[Andrew]

due to its size I can tell like sometimes that's the conversation you have with builders you go for what it is gee that's an expensive little item 

[Frank] (23:44 – 23:48)

Yeah and that could be decks cantilevered decks, roofs, entries, yeah. 

[Andrew] (23:48 – 24:02)

you can get all kinds of left field ones like people go I want this sculpture type thing out the front of my driveway yeah you go oh the size of the footing you're gonna have to put on that thing and the framing that will go inside it you might want to get it costed

[Frank] (24:02 - 24:21)

costed yeah well this is it yeah and that's what you've got to give that advice are you sure you want to do this but to be fair people don't know what they don't know you know that's something we have all the time they don't know how much something costs or complexity you know it's no different people thinking just lifts are a beauty retrofitting a lift 

[Andrew] (24:23 - 24:48)

oh yeah one of them comes to mind it seems like a simple proposition it's only a couple of square meters how hard can it be to work on the side of a building then you get to the oh what's in the way of it yep how much you're going to have to interfere with the upper floor it is what it is and you're going to have to change it but um and you just get this jungle feel of um what's the budget for constructing this.

[Frank] (24:48 - 24:51)

Exactly but even if you're trying to put it internally people think you just cut the floor she'll fit

[Andrew] (24:51 - 24:56)

yeah it can be hard to fit uh stairs and lifts 

[Frank] (24:56 - 25:15)

Yep stairs are retrofitting stairs you're going to re-support the floor with lifts you're going to re-support the floor sometimes depending on the type partly the roof 

[Amelia]

wow 

[Frank]

you know and a lot of people don't understand what's it because they can't see what's behind the floor coverings and the plaster how hard this stuff it is to do sometimes it's really easy sometimes it's not 

[Andrew] (25:15 - 25:28)

It's hard enough even sometimes on new builds 

[Frank]

yeah exactly 

[Andrew]

how often people go gee is that there enough head clearance under that 

[Frank]

yeah exactly 

[Andrew]

we might have to change this up a bit 

[Frank] (25:28 - 25:44)

yeah and that's right, we've seen that on jobs too because where does you put the structure where it's steel or timber or truss or whatever it doesn't actually give you the clearance that you need the thing that we're facing a lot now is how to get the building to breathe so you might have this big steel beam holding up the floor but the floor can't ventilate because you have this big steel beam in the way.

[Andrew] (25:44 - 26:05)

Yeah when I started designing things I'd never even heard or thought about thermal breaks between wall framing and windows 

[Frank]

yep exactly 

[Andrew]

but when everyone's trying to uh be energy efficient as they are these days and new considerations come into just being normal everyday considerations on a new… 

[Frank] (26:05 - 26:40)

that also makes you better at what you do but also collaborating with building designers like us we rely so heavily on our engineers to assist us to make our buildings function well easy to build and to meet the requirements that our clients want you know from everything from simple to complicated when you look at the pictures on the wall that we have in our room here you get some big roofs and there's some big overhangs and things like that it can be done people got the budget for it as well but also does it function well and also you got to consider where it's positioned if you're on the coast you know you get different consideration with corrosion on top of with your soils how it affects all your reinforcement 

[Andrew] (26:40 – 26:42)

There's a lot of overlap in what we do 

[Frank] (26:42 – 26:54)

yeah there is yeah and that's why we do work so closely with structural engineers and we rely on them so heavily and our geotech guys you know and we'll get one of these days to talk about dirt. 

[Amelia] (26:54 - 26:56)

Everyone wants to talk about dirt

[Frank] (26:59 - 27:01)

There's whole conferences in going talking about dirt

[Andrew] (27:02 - 27:06)

It's not my bag I do know some professionals that are very into rocks 

[Amelia] (27:06 - 27:09)

and very passionate about rocks 

[Frank] (27:09 – 27:13)

but to be fair you need to know a lot about dirt because you're sitting on the dirt all the time.

[Andrew] (27:13 - 27:18)

yeah it really starts starts from the ground up sounds like a bit of a…

[Amelia]

Cliche

[Andrew] (27:18 - 27:35)

yeah that's the word 

[Amelia]

we might wrap up part one there with Andrew from Res Engineering thank you so much for joining us and we're going to dive straight into part two next week in our very next episode so stay tuned and thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast catch you next time. 

[OUTRO] (27:35 - 27:49)

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.