E70. Navigating your design brief

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast hosts Amelia and Frank introduce the importance of design briefs, explaining that a design brief serves as a blueprint for clients to clearly express their project desires to the designer. Frank describes the four main types of clients he encounters, ranging from those with a detailed plan and budget to those with vague or contradictory ideas. The discussion highlights the challenges in accommodating different clients, especially regarding cost awareness and how designers can assist each type of client to achieve their dream home or extension. 

 Frank highlights how helping clients manage their home-building budgets by clarifying priorities and differentiating between wants and needs. Clients can list their “dream items” and their essential needs, which helps in making adjustments when budget constraints arise. 

The conversation emphasises the importance of designers listening carefully to client desires and ensuring those ideas are accurately reflected in the design. 

 Be sure to subscribe on Spotify so you don't miss an episode there is new one released each week!! 

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E70. Navigating your design brief mixdown

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:19)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design Primetime podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective. 

[Amelia] (0:20 - 0:43)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design Prime Time Podcast. I'm your host, Amelia.

And once again, we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:43 - 0:51)

Hey, Amelia. How are we? 

[Amelia]

Pretty good.

[Frank]

That's the way, coming into a bit finer weather down here. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, that's a bit of a relief. 

[Frank]

Oh, I tell you what, I was getting a bit over it.

[Amelia] (0:51 - 0:54)

Oh, I was too. So much rain and wind.

[Frank] (0:54 - 0:55)

Yeah, everything's growing.

[Amelia] (0:56 - 0:56)

I know.

[Frank] (0:56 - 0:57)

It's got a row to knots.

[Amelia] (0:58 - 0:58)

It is.

[Frank] (0:59 - 2:03)

You know what? I think we should talk about design briefs. 

[Amelia]

That's a really good one.

[Frank]

Navigating a design brief. And it might sound a bit weird. It's basically, what do you want with your project?

I.e. you might want a new house, you may want an extension, you may want an alteration, you might want a pool, a cabana, shed, doesn't matter what it is. It's for you, the consumer or the landowner, wanting to convey what you want to build to a designer to go, right, this is what I want. And over the years, we've had thousands of people come in and tell us what they want.

And I've kind of put it down to four different types of customers. And the reason I want to talk about this is to be able to help everyone to be better prepared going in. And when you are able to share these ideas and your wants and needs for your house or man cave or could even be designing a new parking area at the front of the house, because you've got teenagers, it doesn't really matter what it is.

So we're going to navigate what we call the design brief. Other people call it scopes of work.

[Amelia] (2:03 - 2:04)

Okay.

[Frank] (2:05 - 3:06)

So you've got the customer that comes in and knows everything they want, know exactly what they want to the letter. And they've done their research and even picking products. And they've got the photos, which are pretty close to what they want.

And they've got a good idea of how much it's going to cost. They've been talking to builders, you know, talking if it's a pool, talking to the pool guys, I'm going to put this type of balustrade. I want to put a storage area. I want to have this, that, the other, really good. Then the other one's second type of person or couple or whatever it may be come in and they know, they know what they want. I really know what they want and their specific, but they have no idea on how much it's going to cost.

And this is quite not an unusual. And I'm not downgrading anyone because of this, because you don't know what you don't know. And that's why you're starting the process to figure this out.

And sometimes you can have really high expectations, but as we've discussed before in the last three to four years, the construction costs, product supply, install has risen considerably, like massive amounts.

[Amelia] (3:06 - 3:07)

Oh, huge.

[Frank] (3:08 - 3:56)

So that's made it tough to, even for us to keep a handle on it. We rely on builders, suppliers, quantity surveyors, all sorts of people to give, you know, indications where it is. But until you actually go and get the project priced, it's hard to know roughly where it sits with an exact price.

So you can get budget costings. Then you've got the customer that's just not quite sure. They have a budget, but they're not sure what they can do.

Or can they actually do it in their space? Or will it fit on the land? Or is it too steep?

Or I've got these constraints. I've got a shed in the way. I've got a tree in the way.

I've got whatever. And the fourth one is a customer who thinks they know what their wants and needs, but all the information they provide is contradictory. So I want a single storey house, you know, four bedroom, whatever.

And they give me photos of facades of two storey homes.

[Amelia] (3:57 - 3:57)

Oh.

[Frank] (3:57 - 3:58)

Yeah, no, sounds odd.

[Amelia] (3:58 - 4:00)

So they have no idea, really?

[Frank] (4:00 - 4:22)

Yeah, and it could be a whole bunch of other things. Or I want a certain style. So they've worked on looking at the style, yet they give like 15 photos of buildings and there's five different styles in there.

Oh, but we like the window of that one. And the facade, you know, the eaves lining and the roof pitch of that one. The classic example is not quite getting the names of the styles right.

[Amelia] (4:22 - 4:25)

Okay. So it's lack of understanding to a degree.

[Frank] (4:25 - 4:35)

It's a lack of understanding. And that's okay. We can navigate through them and also try and understand what they want.

Hamptons is probably the one that comes to mind the most.

[Amelia] (4:35 - 4:37)

Lots of people say, I want Hampton style.

[Frank] (4:37 - 4:40)

Yes, but they probably don't understand what it is.

[Amelia] (4:41 - 4:41)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:42 - 4:47)

Because to me, that word is bantered around a lot and what they actually want is not Hamptons.

[Amelia] (4:47 - 4:47)

Okay.

[Frank] (4:48 - 5:16)

You know, and that's okay. Look, that doesn't change the fact what they want is what they want. There's no problem, no judgment there.

You know, we help them find exactly what they want, listen to how they want it to look and whatnot, even how things function. So there you've got a range of customers and either one's not right or wrong. That's our job to be able to assist.

So a couple of ways we help people. So if someone comes in, knows exactly what they want, already working with a builder, got a budget, happy days. We're away.

[Amelia] (5:16 - 5:16)

Yep.

[Frank] (5:17 - 5:48)

You know, we can scope that up, price it, do the concept drawings, measure the house up. So if it's an extension or get the surveyor to pick up levels and positions of things and get it all really accurate and the quality of their drawings and it goes real smoothly and it actually reduces the cost from our point of view because they know what they want. And we give them assistance on, hey, have you considered this?

Have you considered that? So that can be really satisfying as well. I know there's some designers, architects really don't like doing that type of work because it's not creative for them. It's a drafting process.

[Amelia] (5:48 - 5:49)

Yes.

[Frank] (5:49 - 5:54)

But I actually don't mind it. I actually like doing it because I can help people get exactly what they want.

[Amelia] (5:54 - 5:59)

Well, it's a fairly, I guess, streamlined process because the person knows exactly what they want.

[Frank] (5:59 - 6:01)

And it's very nice to have sometimes.

[Amelia] (6:01 - 6:01)

Yeah.

[Frank] (6:02 - 6:06)

As opposed to the person, they think they know what they want, but they're contradictory and you go round and round in circles and they're always unhappy.

[Amelia] (6:07 - 6:07)

Yes.

[Frank] (6:07 - 6:32)

So we have a different process for that. So I'll just move on to the other one where they've got the ideas of what they want, call them the visionary, but they lack awareness of costs. You know, they see lots of stuff on magazines, online, looking at websites, watching TV shows, investigating all these different types of products and ideas.

And they not aware of some of these products can't be used in Australia.

[Amelia] (6:33 - 6:33)

Really?

[Frank] (6:33 - 6:57)

Yeah, there's quite a few products. And if they don't have the correct testing and rating in Australia, well, we're not interested in touching them because they won't comply. Then the building surveyor is not going to pass them either.

There are a select few you can go through as a performance solution, which means you go through a slightly different process, but everyone has to agree that it's not going to compromise the building because some products do compromise the building and will potentially damage it.

[Amelia] (6:57 - 6:57)

Oh, wow.

[Frank] (6:57 - 7:08)

Yeah, but people don't think it. And like the classic example is some of the polystyrene foam cladding. New Zealand has been a horror show, massive class actions and all that.

[Amelia] (7:08 - 7:08)

Really?

[Frank] (7:09 - 7:53)

Yeah, because they weren't designed right in the first place in how they were installed. A lot of products now are going on to batten. So you've got a cavity between the stud frame where it's insulated.

You've got a cavity. And in Tasmania, that's a pretty big requirement to deal with the condensation and moisture with inside the walls and also nationally the change in the wall wraps, but that's technical bits. But customers need to be aware of this, but also they come along, oh, can I use this window?

Where's that from? Oh, I got it from this. I want to get it from these guys.

And then you find out, well, actually, no, they haven't been tested or rated. Okay. So like windows have to be tested and rated.

Every product you put in a house has to have a level of testing and certification. And if it doesn't have it, you can't do it.

[Amelia] (7:53 - 7:55)

And it's got to meet the minimum requirements.

[Frank] (7:56 - 8:52)

Oh, a hundred percent. And when you're doing commercial buildings, you've got to have group ratings on products and stuff like that too. So a lot more complex in commercial, but with residential, we can certainly do, you know, a lot more creative in that regard.

So you've got the visionary, but has a budget gap and then lacking awareness of costs. So then we go down the process. Well, you know what you want.

We'll be straight up to say, well, is it going to work or not? And we talk to builders and look at what the square measure rate may be. Is it steep side, flat side, all that type of stuff.

And if we feel we're not going to be able to hit their target, we need to get them back in before we even start the project. And so, well, we're worried about, you're not going to hit your target of what you want with that money. Have you got more money or do you want to reduce the scope?

So you get different responses from people, but you'd rather be someone to be fair dinkum, you know, because it's really hard. You go down the whole way to get the whole thing designed. Even if you just go for planning, you get budget costings.

And if you're over budget, it's really shattering.

[Amelia] (8:52 - 8:53)

Well, it would be.

[Frank] (8:53 - 9:10)

So you need to be open-minded, I think. A lot of people need to be open-minded to this and listen to all the consultants. This is why I'm a big fan of working with builders as part of that design team.

So then they can say, look, if you add a rake ceiling to your living area, it will cost X more. Of course it does. There's a lot more work.

[Amelia] (9:11 - 9:11)

Yes.

[Frank] (9:11 - 10:15)

If you want to have larger windows, well, bigger windows cost more money. Bigger sheets of glass, more money. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

Different types of bathrooms, fixtures, tiles, complexity of the shower arrangements, your kitchen, what you spec up. So because you've got the base building, the construction of the floor, the walls, the roof, right? But how you fit that out can actually destroy your budget as in totally go over.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

From your floor finishes to your thousand dollar taps to your marble tops, whatever. And it all looks wonderful, but you've got to pick the things that are most important to you to stick within your budget.

Then you've got the third one, which is like, they kind of know, but they've got a budget, but they're more conscious about the budget. But they've got an idea, but they're not sure if they can do it. So that's where we go down a process of understanding what's the most important thing to them.

And then we start what is called a sketch process and then getting costings on that sketch and make them aware that, yep, your dollars are there, but to do this, yep, we're going to meet the budget or not. Well, you're going to have to sacrifice something to meet this. Now, budget costings might be within 20, 30%, the round figures.

[Amelia] (10:16 - 10:16)

Yes.

[Frank] (10:16 - 10:26)

Then you've got the, as I mentioned before, the fourth customer where they overthink it and they've got too many ideas. They're overthinking it. So that one's a tough one.

[Amelia] (10:26 - 10:30)

It would be. When do you even start with somebody like that?

[Frank] (10:30 - 11:46)

We use the wishlist technique. So you've got a sheet and it's got two columns. So column one, which is usually on our left hand side, we ask the client to list everything I want, everything I dream about.

You know, there's very little limits on that. You put everything on there. On the right hand side, you put the needs.

What is non-negotiable? What are your actual needs? And you want to put them in order of priority.

So if you say, I need three bedrooms, two living areas. Entertaining is very important to us. So we want an alfresco that's connected to the kitchen.

Then you put like, I need a bath in my ensuite. That's been a dream of mine to have that, but I really don't want to compromise on that. 

[Amelia]

You might want stone tops or?

[Frank]

Or it could be things like that. And we've had, once you go through that process, you can actually go look between the two lists and you can see, well, does that mean you don't need a garage? No, that doesn't worry me.

Cool. Eliminate that. And surprisingly enough, people will do that.

[Amelia]

Really? 

[Frank]

Yeah, look, garages are a lot of space and still a lot of money. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

But in saying that, it may not be important to them to have the cars secured away. A carport isn't that much cheaper in some circumstances. There may be other things that…and we had that recently.

They were willing to compromise that to get the house and the living space, the kitchen, specifically the kitchen and the walk-in pantry slash laundry. That was...

[Amelia] (11:47 - 11:47)

The priority?

[Frank] (11:47 - 12:07)

The priority for them. And that's fine. It's working through that and then locking that down.

So you're trying to get all the practical needs and clarifying that. Then you can get it potentially closer to a design that they're going to be happy with. Because if we don't do this, we're guessing all the way through the design process.

[Amelia] (12:07 - 12:07)

Yes.

[Frank] (12:07 - 12:54)

So to start the project, we've got to be clear where we're heading and we want to listen and we need to understand what is their biggest needs. And we might be able to put in some of the wants that they didn't expect because that may not be that hard to do based on the design, the site and that type of stuff. So this is also very handy when you're not aware of building costs to actually look at those needs because then you can pass it on to the builder as well or quantity surveyors.

So we share it with them to say, look, this is where we're going to prioritise. Where can we do cost savings? Where can we do...

But we don't actually do the final costs. We always get a professional that does those costings because surprisingly, everyone thinks we know all the dollars for everything with housing or commercial, but we don't. We rely on the people that actually do the pricing, which is builders or quantity surveyors or estimators.

[Amelia] (12:54 - 13:09)

It must be really challenging though when you have somebody come in, they've got all these big dreams and ideas of what they want and they tell you what their budget is and you say, that's probably going to be more than double what your budget is.

[Frank] (13:09 - 13:11)

I had that just recently.

[Amelia] (13:11 - 13:18)

It must be absolutely shattering. And I mean, it's not anyone's fault. They obviously just don't know what it costs.

[Frank] (13:18 - 13:44)

But then our job is to help them to go through that process to say, well, what can we get for that money? You go back the other way. There's a couple of different directions you can come from.

So that's where we're called the budget reality check and go through a process. You've got to spend money with us or an architect or a building designer to be able to figure out because unless you have a site survey, a soil test, you're kind of guessing a lot.

[Amelia] (13:44 - 13:45)

Yeah, it would be guessing a lot.

[Frank] (13:45 - 13:50)

Because if you think you've got a flat site, but you don't. In Tasmania, it's unusual.

[Amelia] (13:50 - 13:52)

Everyone thinks they've got a flat site.

[Frank] (13:52 - 13:56)

And then you find out the front door's hanging out two meters out of the front of the house.

[Amelia] (13:56 - 13:57)

Oh my goodness.

[Frank] (13:57 - 14:04)

But then we've got to look at cost effective ways of doing it. And also people, this is why I've spoken previously about choosing the right block of land.

[Amelia] (14:05 - 14:05)

Yes.

[Frank] (14:06 - 14:50)

But no one listens to us. People buy it. It's an emotional decision.

Love the area. Great outlook, blah, blah, blah. And then you find out, oh, this is really hard to build on.

Like really hard. And then you're spending money on retaining walls rather than on the essentials that you need in your house or on your driveways or you've got to go two stories instead of one story. One story doesn't work.

Yeah, that again can be a bit disappointing for the customer when you point these things out to them. Because they really need to have advice. Before you buy a block, come and talk to a designer architect and they'll give you advice on it.

Because there are certain sites that are single story sites and there are two story sites. Then there are sites with lots of rock, highly reactive soils or known problems. Other ones with planning restrictions. We've been over this on previous podcasts.

[Amelia] (14:50 - 14:51)

Yes.

[Frank] (14:51 - 15:07)

Can't emphasise enough, get someone in to talk about your block and analyse it. We do site analysis on paper for clients. We can meet them on site if we have to.

That's no problem at all. Surveys don't lie. Soil tests don't lie.

And they affect your budget directly.

[Amelia] (15:07 - 15:09)

Oh, they definitely would.

[Frank] (15:09 - 15:22)

Yeah, even the steepness of your driveway. But then once you've got that, as I've said before, it's all the interiors and stuff too. So that's the other thing.

You might have a normal house, but you might choose, you know, $200 square metre tiles.

[Amelia] (15:22 - 15:30)

Yes. And is your current furniture going to fit in there with your budget? Or are you going to have to buy new stuff?

[Frank] (15:30 - 16:35)

All that. Yeah. You've also got to look at the best value for the site, how it works on the site, or if you're doing an extension or alterations to a house, what's going to be the best value engineering? 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So we get structural engineers to give advice on that as well, plus our own experience, especially when we're renovating or extending houses where we've got people pulling out heaps and heaps of walls.

Is it actually cost effective? Yes. Or extending up, you know, making your house from a single storey to a two storey, that's another one to consider.

We used to do lots of those, like heaps. 10, 15 years ago it was heaps because it was relatively cost effective. Now it's got really expensive because of a lot of scaffolding, safety issues, but the complexity of building the wet weather, but building over an existing house space.

And you've got to do a lot of work downstairs as well because of bracing, plaster cracks, because you put something up there, stuff's going to crack, stuff's going to move. So here's another tip, don't do an upper storey extension on a newly renovated house. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, you're going to have to redo it.

[Frank]

You're going to redo and patch and all that. It sounds odd. Do the extension upstairs first, then do the reno.

[Amelia] (16:36 - 16:37)

Yeah, good idea.

[Frank] (16:37 - 17:13)

So back to looking at budget reality check, it's working with the engineers to give it an idea of where some of those costs, as I said, a builder, quantity surveyor, and accurate levels and soil tests. Soil tests can make a huge effect depending on the site classification. Bushfire.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Bushfire rating, if you're, you know, in Tasmania we're limited, we can only go to BAL 29, other states can go a lot higher. But once we get into certain areas, about 29 costs really get up there.

Like it's really expensive because you can't use specific timber. You might have to go like for exterior, you might have to go for a steel frame deck as opposed to a timber one.

[Amelia] (17:13 - 17:15)

Certain claddings you can't use.

[Frank] (17:15 - 17:58)

Certain claddings you can't use. Windows have to be specified. The glass is different.

The seals on the windows or doors are different, you know, and now because we have to ventilate the roof a lot more, all the detailing that goes into ventilating your roof, so natural air ventilation, so there's no condensation builder. So all this adds big dollars. 

[Amelia]

Oh, it would.

[Frank]

On top of if you're doing a new house in a high bushfire, I mean the driveway, passing zones, be able to get a fire truck up there, water tanks. Yeah, adds up real fast. So that's from those people who got an idea, not sure, and they focus more on the budget.

So we can certainly help that. And we just do a part and we actually build the scope. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

Build the scope of works based on the budget and work our way back.

[Amelia] (17:58 - 17:58)

Good idea.

[Frank] (17:58 - 18:23)

That last one where they've got very uncertain, contradictory ideas. Same thing. You can go through the wishlist so we can understand it better.

But also then we do what is a design discovery where we actually have a brainstorming sketching session with them to understand. We sketch something in front of them, thinking this, that, the other thing, and then looking at how that can then build a scope of works.

[Amelia] (18:24 - 18:25)

That's a good idea. 

[Frank] (18:25 - 18:27)

Yeah. so, and that one can be a lot of fun too.

[Amelia] (18:27 - 18:30)

Well, you're getting to see a rough idea in front of you.

[Frank] (18:31 - 18:38)

Yeah, exactly. From our experience. But again, it's still verified by soil tests and detail surveys.

[Amelia] (18:38 - 18:39)

Yes.

[Frank] (18:39 - 19:00)

And by the way, a really good quality detail survey, not a bunch of contours, really detailed, every rock, every stump, everything that's on your block of land, or even if it's an extension, every retaining wall, cubby house, anything that might be in the trees and the stuff that are in the way. When it comes to extensions and alterations, we go in and site measure the whole thing before we actually start doing sketching.

[Amelia] (19:00 - 19:00)

Yes.

[Frank] (19:01 - 19:15)

Because we want to know how the thing's put together, what the actual sizes, heights, what other restrictions, but the survey helps with that as well. So we also go through living scenarios. So how would this space work for you, depending on what, so what stage of life are you at?

[Amelia] (19:15 - 19:17)

That's a good idea too.

[Frank] (19:17 - 19:41)

Because when you're getting a bit older, is this going to be your last house? Do you want to consider things for the Liveable Housing Australia requirements? So as you become older, ailments, walking becomes difficult, visual, wheelchair, all those types of things, you want to consider that. So then the house is prepared for a few of those scenarios. So if you need to add extra bars in your shower, so then you can adapt it to that use.

[Amelia] (19:41 - 19:46)

Even other things like provisions for storing a caravan or...

[Frank] (19:46 - 19:47)

Oh, 100%.

[Amelia] (19:47 - 19:48)

All those sort of things as well.

[Frank] (19:48 - 19:58)

But also when I've got young families too, where you've got young kids, how's that house then evolve as they become teenagers? So those are things to consider as well.

[Amelia] (19:58 - 20:01)

Yes, multi-use spaces and all that sort of thing.

[Frank] (20:01 - 20:43)

Repurposed spaces, but also when it comes to budget constraints, like really tight budgets, you're designing a house that can be extended easily. So you've already thought of that in time, that you can, hey, this is really easy to come off the end, the side or whatever. And you're also thinking how the house flows.

So that's another thing we haven't touched on. But if people can't meet the budget, you build what they can now, but in X amount of years time, they know they can expand in this space on the site. Provisions been allowed for in certain plumbing aspects, retaining walls, things like that.

So yeah, this is a couple of techniques that we use. Specifically, we need to understand, listen, we all agree what directions it's going on.

[Amelia] (20:43 - 20:50)

Oh, I mean, that's 100% right. There's no point drawing anything up if no one's clear on what they're actually after.

[Frank] (20:50 - 21:34)

Yes, that is very, very true. So, and then I'd encourage, if you're looking for someone, you make sure they have 3D based software. 2D technical drawings, they're fine.

If you can visualise, convert it in your head into a 3D and you can visualise it. Most designers and architects have the 3D modelling software, so they can actually give you models to have a look at. We provide a link and they can go in there, open the link up on their computer or on their phone, and spin the thing around, pop the roof off, have a look.

And it's to give an idea of space and height. Walkthrough designs is about a walkthrough. Yep, everyone can do that, but no one's willing to pay for it.

So it can be done. But the visualisation is a very important part of any of these design processes.

[Amelia] (21:35 - 21:36)

Oh, definitely.

[Frank] (21:36 - 21:40)

Now, even just trying to figure out how your shed and your pool's gonna work together.

[Amelia] (21:40 - 21:46)

Yeah, and distances and spaces and sizes. I think they can be really difficult to imagine.

[Frank] (21:46 - 21:59)

Yes, they can. And I don't blame people not being able to visualise it. And that's why the 3D modelling is really, really helpful.

Or coming into the office, put on the big screen, you could spin it around and make basic adjustments there. And then that's also very helpful.

[Amelia] (21:59 - 22:04)

I'm sure people have come in and they've said, oh, I want bedrooms this big by this big or whatever.

[Frank] (22:05 - 22:06)

Oh, I've had some really interesting ones, yeah.

[Amelia] (22:06 - 22:15)

And honestly, some of them maybe don't have an idea of what that size actually looks like. They just say, oh, no, I just want this size.

[Amelia] (22:15 - 22:57)

That's right. They think they know, but they don't. They've never actually measured what they have.

And the best thing, once you've got a plan with dimensions in your current living environment, measure out, compare the sizes and the space so you get a context. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Because when people come to me and ask for, oh, I want the kids to have, you know, a four and a half by five metre bedroom.

[Amelia]

That's a pretty big bedroom. 

[Frank]

That is ginormous for a kid's room. 

[Amelia]

It is.

[Frank]

You know, I want them to have a couch, entertainment area and sitting area all in their own bedroom. Okay, that's fine. That's up to you.

But then you want four of those. Then the master bedroom is eight by six, not including the ensuite and walk-in rope. And if that's what they want, that's fine.

But if they're on a budget. 

[Amelia]

That might not be feasible. 

[Frank]

Exactly right.

Because, you know, that's big, big spaces.

[Amelia] (22:58 - 22:58)

Yes.

[Frank](22:58 - 23:17)

And that's why it's good. Measure what you have. Does it work?

Does it not work? All those types of things. Same with your lounge room, your kitchen, dining and all that.

It's with your existing furniture, as you mentioned before. It's really important stuff. And you've got to really think about this stuff. You know, look at other floor plans and look at sizes. Go to display homes. That's really helpful as well.

[Amelia] (23:17 - 23:20)

Oh, definitely. Good for even just ideas.

[Frank] (23:20 - 23:34)

Yeah. So based on that, there are ways, different ways we treat to help customers get to their point. So we all understand what can be achieved within the budget or least get a full, complete picture of what they want.

[Amelia] (23:35 - 23:49)

So is there a minimum recommendation requirement that you would suggest for anyone that's looking to come to an architect or a building designer? Should they have any sort of concepts of what they want?

[Frank] (23:49 - 24:26)

Everyone's different. Some come with a written list. Some come with sketches on the back of a napkin. Some do really nice technical drawings because they did it at school. And it varies massively. None of it's right or wrong.

It gives us a starting point for the discussion. But the more time you spend on it to think about your spaces and how you might live with it is very helpful. And also exploring other people's houses to say, oh, that works well.

And I like that. You know, that could be a thing, you know. And what I've noticed in the many years I've been doing this, showing my age, that we have these trends and people see these ideas and they've got to have something the same as everyone else.

[Amelia] (24:26 - 24:28)

Which you don't necessarily have to do.

[Frank] (24:28 - 24:35)

No, exactly right. Like the walk-in pantry is an absolute classic at the moment. Everyone wants a big ass walk-in pantry.

[Amelia] (24:35 - 24:36)

Yes.

[Frank] (24:36 - 24:39)

And they can be quite expensive because of that. Because there's a lot of joinery in there.

[Amelia] (24:39 - 24:40)

Oh, definitely.

[Frank] (24:40 - 24:44)

And if you want one, that's fine. But be prepared for your budget to, you know.

[Amelia] (24:44 - 24:45)

To accommodate that.

[Frank] (24:45 - 25:04)

Yeah, accommodate. So we've done some other ones. We've combined it with the laundry.

Yes. So it's a double use of the space. So that's actually worked quite well.

And it's not, you're still paying a reasonable amount for your joinery, but it actually works very well. And there's all different ways of doing it. Same with bathrooms, layouts of bathrooms. There's only a handful of ways of doing it.

[Amelia] (25:05 - 25:05)

Yes.

[Frank] (25:05 - 25:13)

To keep it cost effective. There's some really expensive ways to do bathrooms. And that's what people want because of just how it looks. Not necessarily how it functions.

[Amelia] (25:14 - 25:14)

Yes.

[Frank] (25:14 - 25:33)

Which always makes me laugh. Because obviously we hear feedback from other people, other clients, people that I know. And you're just talking about, you know, the type of shower, type of bathroom. I would never do that again because of this reason. Yet other people love it. Same with the one I love is it's a 50-50 thing. Master bedroom has to have a view.

[Amelia] (25:33 - 25:34)

Really? That’s interesting. 

[Frank] (25:34 - 25:36)

And some people just don't care.

[Amelia] (25:36 - 25:38)

Yeah. Okay. 

[Frank]

It's a real 50-50.

[Amelia]

Okay.

[Frank] (25:39 - 26:12)

Yeah. That's always been interesting since we’ve been doing this job. And there's no right or wrong.

It's whatever you really want to have those wishlists. 

[Amelia]

Exactly. 

[Frank]

And that's all okay. So I suppose where I'm coming from here, it doesn't matter what information you bring, spend the time on it, look on sites, put it all down on paper, but also find someone who's going to listen. Someone's going to listen to your ideas, your wants, your needs, and actually takes it seriously. That's really important.

If someone takes your ideas and doesn't draw what you want, you're not going to be real happy, are you?

[Amelia] (26:12 - 26:14)

Oh, look, that's alarm bells for me.

[Frank] (26:14 - 26:36)

And I still hear it a lot. They didn't get exactly what they want. I said, why didn't you ask?

Why didn't you say something? They felt they did. They got knocked back.

You know, it was not in their design decision, which I find quite odd. So stand your ground. If you want something, just say it.

And it fits within your budget. You're not being unreasonable about, you know, budgets and things like that. It comes down to your priority of your needs.

So stick to it.

[Amelia] (26:36 - 26:36)

Oh, definitely.

[Frank] (26:37 - 26:46)

Don't be pushed around. If you want something in your house and it fits within your budget, and it's not unreasonable, and you want it in a certain position, and you want the windows done a certain way and the door position.

[Amelia] (26:47 - 26:48)

And it's compliant.

[Frank] (26:48 - 26:50)

And it's compliant. It's your castle.

[Amelia] (26:50 - 26:51)

Yes.

[Frank] (26:51 - 26:51)

Stick to your guns.

[Amelia] (26:52 - 27:03)

Definitely. All right, we'll start wrapping up. Last question.

What do you feel is the most important aspect of coming to your first initial consultation with a designer?

[Frank] (27:03 - 27:06)

I like both a written wishlist.

[Amelia] (27:06 - 27:06)

Okay.

[Frank] (27:06 - 27:19)

Even if you've just come, hey, this is what we want. And if you've done some hand sketches, just some doodles, thoughts, if it's an extension, if it's a pool, bring photos of, if it's an existing, bring photos. Get a good idea.

[Amelia] (27:20 - 27:20)

Yep.

[Frank] (27:20 - 27:44)

You know, before, you know, any site visits or anything you've done, get an idea of photos, or you can go online. If it was on a real estate ad somewhere, that type of thing. That's very helpful for us.

A copy of the title. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Prior to any meeting we have, we do a site analysis to have a look if there's any potential challenges.

[Amelia]

Red flags. Yep. 

[Frank]

So just by bringing that is really helpful.

If you've got a builder you're already talking to, bring him as well, him or her, bring them in.

[Amelia] (27:44 - 27:46)

Yeah, we love that. 

[Frank] (27:46 - 27:46)

I love it. It's great.

[Amelia] (27:46 - 27:47)

Working together.

[Frank] (27:47 - 27:51)