E78. Treating human waste

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, Frank and Amelia explore the complexities of wastewater treatment systems, particularly for rural properties and holiday homes. Join Amelia and Frank as they discuss the importance of planning wastewater systems early in the design process and how they influence other aspects of your build, from site layout to council approvals.

We cover key considerations, including the differences between septic and   Aerated Wastewater Treatment Systems (AWTS) , how pools and spas interact with wastewater management, and why understanding site limitations is crucial for success. Whether you're navigating bushfire overlays, driveway access, or flora and fauna protections, this episode is packed with practical advice and expert insights to guide you through the process.

Perfect for anyone planning a rural or beach house, this episode will help you make confident, informed decisions about your property.

Be sure to subscribe on Spotify so you don't miss an episode there is new one released each week!!

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E78. Treating human waste 

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective.

[Amelia] (0:26 - 0:57)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time podcast. I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus. 

[Frank]

Afternoon Amelia.

[Amelia]

Oh afternoon, I'm not looking forward to this topic I've got to say. 

[Frank]

Why? It's part and parcel of life.

[Amelia]

Treating human waste. 

[Frank]

Yeah. 

[Amelia]

There's something really gross about that.

[Frank] (0:59 - 1:01)

It's part of life. 

[Amelia]

 I know.

[Frank] (1:02 - 3:03)

Hey, we're talking about it because we've got to deal with it and treat with it. We're not talking about the old days where they used to have the night cart come along and pick up your human waste and put it in the back of the buggy, the horse and buggy. 

[Amelia]

I feel sorry for whoever had to drive that horse and buggy. Yuck!

[Frank]

Oh, especially if they came to a sudden stop. 

[Amelia]

Oh, yuck. 

[Frank]

But that's how it used to be. You know how it used to do with human waste. 

[Amelia]

Imagine being the last house on the street you had to collect from. Oh, yuck.

[Frank]

Well, everything's full and you're taking it back and you have a little accident. 

[Amelia]

Oh, yuck. 

[Frank]

Yeah, anyway. You had to go there, didn't you? 

[Amelia]

We've come a long way. 

[Frank]

I've corrupted you.

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

Yeah, I want to talk about treating human waste. And what I mean by that is when you have a block that cannot be serviced by a sewerage system.

And we talk about rural blocks and we've got holiday sites. Around Tassie you  got all these beautiful holiday sites down the east coast, northwest coast, south. Absolutely brilliant.

But they don't have sewerage systems, so they have to treat the human waste on site. So have an on-site wastewater system installed. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

And the common one everyone knows about is a septic. 

[Amelia]

Yes, I've heard of that one before. 

[Frank]

Everyone has it.

[Amelia]
Yeah. 

[Frank]

And there's still, some are still working well, some aren't working well. And you wouldn't know because they just make, yeah, probably leaking and oozing.

[Amelia]

I don't like the word oozing. Let's keep going on that. 

[Frank]

So I'll just go through, there's a couple of different systems. You've got different types of treatment systems. So it's a primary treatment system, which is a septic tank, which allows solids to settle while liquid effluence is treated in the soil absorption areas. So it breaks down the solids, becomes a liquid, then no mechanical bits.

The water then of the tank rises up, goes out the pipe, and then it goes to a diverter and then goes into an absorption drain.

[Amelia](3:03 - 3:04)

Okay.

[Frank] (3:04 - 5:18)

So the ground has to absorb the liquid waste. And it's awesome fertilizer and the grass grows really well there. 

[Amelia]

I was going to say, that would fertilize the ground pretty well, I would imagine.

[Frank]

Yeah, it does. But there are pros and cons with those things too. But I'll talk about that a bit later. The other systems are called the secondary treatment systems and they're aerated wastewater treatment systems or AWTS as we call them. And they treat it to a higher standard than the primary system where they need chemicals to go in there and they go through a subsurface shallow drip irrigation. So you don't see them.

[Amelia]

Okay. 

 [Frank]

They're a good system. They used to have disinfectant type treatment systems and they used to sprinkle it. So you used to have sprinklers going everywhere, spraying your secondary treated waste. 

[Amelia]

That doesn't sound very nice at all. 

[Frank]

It's not as bad as you think, but they've gone away from that system. I'm not 100% sure why, but other than that, it sounds gross. But the treatment, secondary treatment does work very, very well. But now it all has to be under the ground with drippers where the septic is just big trenches and a number of trenches with the septics and it's got to absorb in those trenches. So build these plastic arches and then it gets absorbed into the ground. 

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

So you've got other ones, sand filters systems. So as the name suggests, it goes through a sand bed and then it gets dispersed in the soil or collected for irrigation. 

[Amelia]

Like kitty litter. 

[Frank]

Good one. Yeah, okay. Without the chunks. 

[Amelia]

Ew.

[Frank]

What? 

[Amelia]

You had to go there. 

[Frank]

Oh, hang on. It's getting it into a liquid form so it can be absorbed. 

[Amelia]

Into the ground. 

[Frank]

Exactly. Mound systems are cool. Wisconsin mounds are a common one where the soil is not real good to absorbing and you build this mound with different levels of sand and all this type of stuff. And it goes through this filtration system in the mound, but it gets pumped in there from the secondary treatment or the primary treatment, depending on how it's designed.

I've seen some failures on those. They're not very popular anymore and they're very expensive to build the mound.

[Amelia] (5:18 - 5:19)

Okay.

[Frank] (5:19 - 5:21)

So you've got a mound sitting in the middle of your garden.

[Amelia] (5:21 - 5:21)

Yeah.

[Frank] (5:21 - 7:02)

And it's big. 

[Amelia]

Oh, really?

[Frank]

Yeah, it's really big. Depending on the size of your house. So it could be visually ordinary. 

[Amelia]

Yeah.

[Frank]

And it's easy to damage. And it needs regular pumping and monitoring and stuff like that. And then you've got the other things called pump-out systems. Now, they generally don't allow these. It's basically a septic tank with another filter and a tank. It all just goes in a tank.

It doesn't go into absorption. So you get the truck comes along, pumps it out and takes it to an approved area to dispose of. 

[Amelia]

Okay.

[Frank]

I'm only aware of councils that are allowed to do this because they obviously have to for public health and safety. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

We're doing one with them up the Tamar River and it's the only way to do it. It's too close to the river. They don't want the chance of effluent going into the river. 

[Amelia]

Yep. Fair enough. 

[Frank]

So they are by law supposed to do everything above boards. So I'll just go through the pitfalls of a few of these. So the septics. Everyone that we talk to always starts at a septic. But what they don't realise is if your ground is no good, it doesn't work. It doesn't absorb. 

[Amelia]

So does it depend on the type of soil? 

[Frank]

Yeah.

[Frank]

Okay. So if you've got beautiful lush green grass, that's fine. But you get down the bottom, you might go in 300-500mm and there might be this heavy clay under there.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So you can imagine what happens. It's like effluent goes on to this heavy clay. It can't absorb. It just sits there. It's like water on your paint job. It just sits there. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. That's no good.

[Frank]

No. Then what's it going to do? It's going to build up. Build up. 

[Amelia]

No, it's going to be horrible. It's going to smell bad. It's just going to sit there.

[Frank] (7:02 – 9:48)

It goes elsewhere. The other thing is the ground gets really boggy and soggy. So you don't want that either. You want it to be able to dry out on a regular basis.

So they're designed so these trenches, they can be 600m to 1m wide, they can be 20m long, multiple directions, depending on how many, to suit the site. And you have diversion valves so you can switch them from side to side. So if one does get a little bit too boggy and wet, you can switch it to the other side so that one can dry out.

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

And you've got to have room to build extra ones. 

[Amelia]

Do you?

[Frank]

Yeah. So what happens if it doesn't work very well? You've done all the calculations. So how they test it, one of the ways is permeability of the soil. How much can it absorb? Makes sense.

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

That's what you're trying to do. So what happens if it's not working as well at first thought? Well, then you can add further trenches so you can disperse it over a greater area. 

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

Yeah. That doesn't always work because you may not have the area to do it. Yeah, well that's what I mean. You would have to have a decent space to be able to do that. And you know where you don't have a decent space? 

[Amelia]

Where? 

[Frank]

When you buy a block of land down near the coast.

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

Which, you know, we're doing some down at Primrose Sands, Greens Beach, done some at Stieglitz, out near St Helens, and the blocks might only be 1,000m2. Oh, we just did one that was 550m2.

[Amelia]

Oh, really?

[Frank]

I'll talk about that one later. That was so complicated. It took us a long time to get that through. But anyway, we’re doing one at Primrose Sands, beautiful place, but the blocks are small. So then you're trying to fit a septic and put trenches in it. It may not work because you can't put it against the boundary because what are the chances it leaks into something or leaks into a drain or leaks into the beach? 

[Amelia]

Yeah, you don't want that. 

[Frank]

I actually heard of one instance, and I won't say where, where the septic failed but it ended up tracking through the sand and this black oozy stuff came out on the beach.

[Amelia]

Oh, that's gross. 

[Frank]
Yeah. 
 
 

[Amelia]

Yuck, that would have reeked.

[Frank]

Well, yeah, but more the point of the health and safety. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, it would. People go swimming there.

[Frank]

So something's gone wrong, bad. And sometimes you don't know when they go wrong. 

[Amelia]

Really?

[Frank]

Yeah. One time you do know when it's wrong is usually around the holiday period. 

[Amelia]

Oh, I can imagine.

[Frank]

System shock. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, Christmas time. 

[Frank]

Christmas and all around that time. So the shack hasn't been used for a while. Everyone piles on down there. Family, people have got tents and caravans in the front yard. You've got 40 people using the one dunny. 

[Amelia]

Yep. 

[Frank]

And the system just can't handle it.

[Amelia]

Yep. 

[Frank]

And then it could smell, overflow, all sorts of weird stuff that you just don't want to happen.

[Amelia] (9:48 - 9:50)

No, that's not fun.

[Frank] (9:50 - 13:27)

No, nothing, you know, a Glen 20 can't fix that. 

[Amelia]

No. 

[Frank]

So, but that's why they have to be designed well. But the holiday, all these holiday shacks, they can cause shock. The systems can't treat it fast enough. Because they've been sitting there dormant for so long and then all of a sudden you feed them a lot and they struggle to keep up. So septics do have a few problems in trying to absorb on poor quality soils. If you've got great quality soils that can absorb, it actually works very, very well. So the pros are they're cheap in comparison.

[Amelia]

I was going to say surely they're cheaper than the others. 

[Frank]

They are cheaper, but it's not as much as what people think too. And the maintenance. So you don't need ongoing maintenance until maybe it smells or maybe overloaded, then you might have to get a truck in to pump it out. 

[Amelia]

Yep.

[Frank]

To give it a chance to catch up. That's not going to be cheap. You've got aerated wastewater treatment systems, AWTSs. It's a multiple stage process. They have pumps in them, so they can pump it out into the pipe work and you can take them up the hill further. It gives you options. Septics are gravity fed, unless you put a pump station in. That adds a few complications. The aerated treatment systems can have a pump designed to go on the high side of your site. And that's a good thing because there's less chance of it going over the boundary. Keep away from boundaries. You've got a minimum distance. 

[Amelia]

Yep.

[Frank]

The trench, the absorption trench, has to be a minimum distance away from the structure and the building. You can't drive over it. 

[Amelia]

Okay.

[Frank]

Because it compacts the soils.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

And you can't absorb as much.

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

The grass does grow well. Yeah, it's no good when it's seeps out. And your tank has to be three metres away from the house as well. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

But the not so good thing is regular maintenance and servicing. Someone's got to pop round. You've got to enter a contract. And someone has to chuck some chemicals in there every quarter, I think it is.

[Amelia]

Yeah, that sounds right. 

[Frank]

So there's ongoing higher costs and also because there's a mechanical electrical item. So if they fail or someone has to pull a pump out with a tank full of effluent ... 

[Amelia]

Eww. 

[Frank]

Yeah, well, shit happens. Shit happens. So I had to go ... 

[Amelia]

That's bad.

[Frank]

I know. But they are ... And these are the ones that are really sensitive to incorrect use or overloading. System shock during Christmas or New Year's and stuff like that. 

[Amelia]

Even though they have a pump on them? 

[Frank]

They can't treat it fast enough.

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

And when they've barely been used and then all of a sudden they're asked to work at maximum capacity, it doesn't quite work. The other part is when you put chemicals down or fats and other stuff down, they can actually ruin the system as well.

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

So you're limited what you can put down the drain. And they cost a fair bit more to install. So there's a fair bit more involved in those. They're your basic ones that you're looking at. Now, under the AWTS systems, there's lots of brands. So you can go shopping around, but be aware some plumbers are licensed to do certain brands and some are dealers for them and they only want to use that one. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

So be aware of that. Septic tanks, you can get concrete ones, plastic ones, all sorts of stuff. So there's different brands out there as well, but essentially they work the same. 

[Amelia]

Okay.

[Frank]

Yeah, because you're going to have to look at one for your new place, aren't you? 

[Amelia]

I will, yeah. There's literally no services up there. There's no water, there's no power, nothing. 

[Frank]

Getting in touch with nature. 

[Amelia]

Well, Skyrocket's the price of everything.

[Frank]

Oh, it does. 

[Amelia]

That's the only thing, really. 

[Frank]
We’ve discussed that before.

[Amelia] (13:27 - 13:28)

Yeah.

[Frank] (13:28 - 14:27)

It would get really expensive. So choosing the right system for you, one thing you've got to consider, and this is where customers, landowners, don't think about these things of the wastewater. They think it's just one of those things you tack on the side of your house.

If you've got a lot of land, okay, it's a fair argument, but if you've got a very small site, so anything under 2,000 square metres, you need to consider your system in a way almost before you consider the house. 

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

Because if you've got to get driveway, sheds, house and all that, rather than try and design the system around the house, which a lot of people do, you really need to have that information early. It will help lay out the site. 

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

Because you can't drive over it. The tank has to be a certain distance away. The absorption trench or the irrigation beds have to be a certain distance away. If you're sloping downwards, it has to then be further away from the lower boundary because if anything fails, leakage, water goes where water goes.

[Amelia] (14:27 - 14:28)

Yeah.

[Frank] (14:28 - 17:53)

And especially on the secondary treatment, as we spoke about, it is a water. It's a grey, you know, it's a black water, they call it, but it's got to be able to stay on your site. That's the law.

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

So you don't want it popping out the beach. You don't want it popping into the neighbour's yard.

[Amelia]

No. 

[Frank]

Your neighbour ain't going to be real impressed, if you know...

[Amelia]

No.

[Frank]

I'm not going to say it. So your lot size really is a challenge, and that's with the smaller sites. Generally you're stuck with an AWTS because you've got a smaller absorption. Each council has their requirements, and what's really interesting that I've noticed around Tasmania in particular, with our 28 councils that we need for, you know, a bit over half a million people. 

[Amelia]

Oh, yes. 

[Frank]

Yeah. The local environmental health officers in each council are generally very aware of local conditions.

[Amelia]

The soil types and that kind of thing?  

[Frank]

Not just that, how things, you know, because you might get a soil test and they tell you one thing, but how does it actually work on site? And they know a lot of information. So a lot of the designers, environmental health private designers that design these systems do consult with the council and know specific requirements. It may not be in the regulations, but they know what works. But this also comes down to customer expectations where I see a lot of customers get really frustrated about the wastewater. They think it's a load of bullshit or shit. They think you can put it anywhere, tuck it anywhere, shove it up against the boundary, the tank's in an annoying position and all that.

This stuff is done for a specific reason under the regulations and also from a lot of experience. I've had some go crook at us. Oh, I can't park my car there. I've only got this where I'll put my caravan. It says, look, your block is too small. You wanted to build a 250 square metre house. You've only left X amount of space. You've got no choice. If you drive over, you damage it and the thing will fail.

And also when they design these systems, they look at the size of the house and it's about how many people can be in there. What's the capacity of the house? 

[Amelia]

Yeah, and I think probably a lot of people don't realise that. It's not a one size fits all. It has to be kind of designed especially for the house and the conditions and the people. 

[Frank]

They used to base it on the bedrooms. Then we used to get sneaky and say, oh, that's a study and that's an entertainment room and that's a media room. No, it comes down to square metre each area now. 

[Amelia]

Really?

[Frank]

Yep. So, you know, I kind of get it. But sometimes it still doesn't work. Even a normal system won't work and you've got to build special beds, special considerations. You've got to bring in heaps of soil to actually make it work because it won't absorb or potentially go into a waterway or go into the river or into someone's dam or potentially leak into someone else's property. Sand can be a real problem because it won't absorb it.

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

So you've got to be really careful on those. This is where you pay an expert to do it. The other thing I've seen that a problem is the installation. Not done well. 

[Amelia]

Oh, really?

[Frank]

Yep. I saw it once and I'm not joking, and this was disgusting, but the tank, they didn't put it in the ground properly and then it rained, water got in, the tank became buoyant and popped out of the ground.

[Amelia] (17:54 - 17:54)

Oh, no.

[Frank] (17:55 - 17:57)

Yep. Busted the pipes.

[Amelia] (17:57 - 17:58)

Oh, no.

[Frank] (17:58 - 18:37)

So then the raw effluent ended up going into the gap where the tank had popped out and then it started filling up with effluent. 

[Amelia]

All around the outside. 

[Frank]

Yeah, untreated effluent.

[Amelia]

Yeah, yuck. That would be awful. 

[Frank]

Yep. It was not good. I said, you've got to get that. Yeah, that was just unbelievable.

[Amelia]

Yep. 

[Frank]

But someone didn't put the tank in properly to weigh it down. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay.

[Frank]

So it had to be well fixed. And you have a risk of that mess on site, the effluent, and runoff. And you do not want to be in that situation.

[Amelia]

No, well, I guess you could say that it's contaminated. 

[Frank] (18:37 – 19:18)

Oh, heck yeah. It will make people sick.  Yeah, it's a real health issue. But also, when the beds aren't installed properly, then the system is pumping out and it may not absorb or leak somewhere, but then you get the smell. But no one wants the smell.

[Amelia]

No. 

[Frank]

You know, that's always going to ruin your Christmas lunch, isn't it? 

[Amelia]

Oh, I reckon, yuck.

[Frank]

There's a lot of complaints, too, about the AWTS systems. They have a bad reputation because of the ongoing costs, the maintenance costs. And, you know, you could be...I'm not sure what it is. I think it's about $1,000 or $1,200 a year in maintenance, people putting chemicals in to make sure it keeps running properly.

[Amelia](19:18 - 19:18)

Yeah.

[Frank] (19:19 - 20:33)

But you've got to maintain it yourself. Don't put certain chemicals down. Don't put fats down there, all sorts of things like that. You don't put the wrong thing down into the tank. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay. 

[Frank]

The regular servicing, associated fees. But if a pump fails in there, that's expensive. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

I've seen septics need to put a pump in because they've got to pump it elsewhere.

[Amelia]

Yes. 
 
 

[Frank]

To another thing. But if that pump fails, it needs to have a certain amount of capacity. You have to have alarms inside your house. 

[Amelia]

Oh, really? 

[Frank]

Because if you don't know it's stopped, you're still using it. You're still pumping human waste in there. 

[Amelia]

Yep. 

[Frank]

It needs to know to be able to get it to the absorption drain. And you know what? We're going to have to get someone in to talk about this a bit more at EHO, I reckon. 

[Amelia]

I reckon they've got a lot of dad jokes too about all this stuff.

[Frank]

Yeah. Talking shit all the time. Oh.

[Amelia]

You're terrible. 

[Frank]

Sorry. You can delete that if you want. Still the biggest problem is customer's expectations. Because the size, the space, the position, the inconvenience of it. Because you can't use a certain part of your site. Or I've had one recently where it was designed to have a, had one dwelling on the site, put a new system in.

[Amelia] (20:33 - 20:34)

Yes.

[Frank] (20:34 - 21:35)

It was designed to have a second system on there. So it came back to us, I know, 10 years down the track, I want to put a granny flat on there. Yeah, no worries. Okay, we'll have a look. Yep. We had to get the system assessed.

So it still cost me a fair bit of money. He said, yep, it will do the capacity. But where the problem came about was the bushfire attack level had changed. The rules had changed. 

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

So where the house was thought to have gone had to be pushed another seven metres inside the block to meet.

[Amelia]

The bushfire attack level. Yep. 

[Frank]

That took more of the absorption drain.

[Amelia]

Oh, so you had less space to put it. 

[Frank]

Less space. 

[Amelia]

Okay.

[Frank]

And then it got a little bit frustrating and annoying and reckon it’s a load of crap. And I'd explained the rules have changed. But the waste water has changed, but so have the bushfire rules.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So we have found a solution around it, though, but it took a lot of work to find that. Because this block was not big. I think it was barely 1,200 square metres.

[Amelia] (21:35 - 21:36)

Yeah, okay.

[Frank] (21:36 - 22:27)

So it becomes a real problem when people have this picture on how they want to position the house and all that. They say, well, you can't do it. I want to park my boat there.

So, yeah, you know, the other interesting one is extensions. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, I was going to say, surely you probably would get to a point if you're having extra people doing an extension on your home and it can't take the capacity for those extra people. 

[Frank]

Or the size of the building.

[Amelia]

Or the size of the building, yeah. 

[Frank]

So then we have to engage a professional environmental health officer, private, professional, to go out there and do an assessment. And here again, here's your problem.

When the original system went in, it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. The regulations have changed two or three times since then.

[Amelia] (22:27 - 22:27)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:28 - 23:55)

And say the position is still fine, still three metres away from the house, but there you find, well, this tank, this system won't handle it. So we've had it where it can leave the original system, we then go to a secondary system. 

[Amelia]

Okay.

[Frank]

And then bigger absorption trenches or absorption area, we expand it, make it bigger or find a new one. Assuming you've got the room for that. Hopefully you've got the room for it.

Because when we do extension, that is the first thing we look at. We look for what's going to be the biggest stumbling block. And it usually is the wastewater and bushfire is our biggest stumbling blocks on extensions in these areas and down near shacks and holiday homes and certain towns that just don't have sewage.

Once we know that, we can then move forward. There's no point doing a whole bunch of drawings ready for planning approval if you can't get your wastewater to work or your bushfire to work. It's funny how the two are linked.

[Amelia]

Yeah, it's interesting. 

[Frank]

Setbacks. Yes. Yeah, so there's the reality of human waste and treating it. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, it's still gross. Or just buy in town.

[Frank]

There you go. Live somewhere with a sewer system built in and just pay your sewage rates. 

[Amelia]

Yes, yes. I mean, the cost has got to come in somewhere anyway, I guess, whether you're on town water or having your own system where you're paying for the chemicals to go in. 

[Frank]

Yeah. You make an interesting point.

[Amelia] (23:55 - 23:55)

Yeah.

[Frank] (23:55 - 29:24)

Interesting point. Town water or tank water. 

[Amelia]

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

[Frank]

That makes an impact on your system. 

[Amelia]

Does it? 

[Frank]

Because you don't have as much water to use when you're on tank water.

[Amelia]

Yeah, that's true. Well, I'm going to have to be on tank water. 

[Frank]

That's right. So you're going to need a lot of tanks, aren't you? 

[Amelia]

Yeah, thankfully I've got a lot of room. 

[Frank]

That's true.

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

But it does have a bearing on how the system works because you can't waste the water. 

[Amelia]

No. No, there's limited capacity there.

[Frank]

Yeah, exactly. And it's interesting, you may not have sewage, but you may have town water, which is a bonus and then makes life…

[Amelia]

Easier. 

[Frank]

Easier. Rather than you're going to have a horrible time.

[Amelia]

Yeah, I know.

[Frank]

So you're going to need bushfire tanks, drinking water tanks. 

[Amelia]

I don't know if I need a bushfire tank because I've got a dam.

[Frank]

Oh, possibly. 

[Amelia]

It's a big dam. 

[Frank]

It depends how far, where you're going to put the house, and how far the truck's got to drive to put a hose in the dam.

[Amelia]

I was going to say, the dam is a fair way back on the block. 

[Frank]

Yeah, and that could be the downside, it's got to be a certain distance. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, okay.

[Frank]

So it can drop a line in. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

But there are a couple of other ways you could do that as well, but we'll leave that to the experts and we'll get to it.

[Amelia]

Yeah, we'll get to it. 

[Frank]

Yes. So anything else you want to know about treating human waste?

[Amelia]

I don't know. Does anyone else want to learn more about human waste? Not really.

[Frank]

You know what's interesting? It just hit me. One of the biggest complaints of, AWTS, as I mentioned before, people complain about the cost.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Yet when you're connected to a sewerage system, you have to pay for that privilege. 

[Amelia]

No, that's what I mean. The cost has got to come from somewhere. 

[Frank]

It does. Yeah.

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

Even though you might be dropping $35,000, $40,000 on your system. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. The initial cost, I guess, is a lot more. 

[Frank]

You've still got that maintenance component. But look, everyone's got to realise if you want to live in these places, in this specific area, you've got to pay for these systems and they've got to be done well.

 If they're designed and installed well, they should last the life of the building. A bit of maintenance is just what it is. 

[Amelia]

And I guess it comes down to what we talked about on one of the other podcasts about choosing the right block of land. You need to have a bit of a handle on what to expect with some of these things. 

[Frank]

Well, part of the problem I find is that so many plumbers only use this brand because it's to their benefit because they might be a dealer or in that type of endeavour to use. 

[Amelia]

Maybe it's the only brand they know how to install.

[Frank]

No, they know how to do other ones. But if they've got a sweet deal, they will use it. It's a bit like heat pump installers, sorry, reverse cycle air conditioning for you mainlanders, is that certain businesses, hey, I'm a Samsung guy, no, I'm a Daikin guy, I'm a Mitsubishi guy, I'm a Hitachi guy, I'm a Fujitsu guy.

They will only put in the system they want to use because it's to their benefit because they might do the maintenance, they might get greater discount, they might make greater profit. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 
 
 

[Frank]

So for everyone out there, do your research, find out what type of system you want to install because there are better AWTS systems than others for different situations. Septics, a few different choices there, but I don't think you're going to save a lot of money either way. But you just may not be able to get your septic to work on site. 

[Amelia]

And if you're not sure, I guess your building designer, they're going to find out this stuff when they do an analysis of the site.

[Frank]

We actually engage a specialist. So we price it out, hey, we've got a specialist, they'll design it for you. And they will give you some guidance, but they can't give you a lot of good guidance on it.

[Amelia]

Okay. 

[Frank]

Other than, hey, I recommend these couple of systems. Do your own research.

And now what they're doing is that the reports used to be generic, needs an AWTS of so many litreage and da, da, da, has to meet these specs. The councils are asking for, I want to know if it's an Aussie clean or it's a Fuji clean. They want to know the brand and the type and the model.

[Amelia]

Yeah, right. They want all the details. 

[Frank]

All the details now.

[Amelia]

And so from a design perspective, is the wastewater system designed before the house or the other one? 

[Frank]

I like to do it very early. 

[Amelia]

Yeah.

[Frank]

Because you need to get the concepts now. So, well, how's it going to sit on the site? I've got to know where the optimum position for the client, what they're thinking.

Yeah. But I like to get the wastewater done really early. As I said, you've got to design around the system.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

And if there is a problem on site, I want to know earlier. I don't want to do it after planning or about to go for building approval and do it last thing. Because if it doesn't work, you can't get a driveway in. If the client wanted to put another shed in the backyard or at the front wherever or a carport or a big deck, a pool. Yep, pools and wastewaters, it does work.

I'll explain that in a second. You really want to get all the potential challenges of the site, house, access, driveway, wastewater, bushfire. You might have some flora and fauna protection or cute furry animal protection overlay, whatever it might be.

[Amelia]

Yep. 

[Frank]

You want to have that information before you get right into the design. Because it's horrible to try and fix it. 

[Amelia]
Afterwards or changing your mind on something that affects it. Well, that too. But you want to be able to present all this as, well, here's your limitations, here's what we can and can't do.

Especially if you've got a rural block and you've got to get a fire truck in there.

[Amelia] (29:25 - 29:25)

Yes.

[Frank] (29:25 - 29:54)

And they've got to turn the fire truck on site. That takes a lot of space. 

[Amelia]

It would, yeah.

[Frank]

Yeah. But a pool, spas, all that type of stuff, you actually don't put the water out of there into your septic or your AWTS because the chemicals will ruin it. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, right.

[Frank]

So you use a cartridge filter on them or you have a sprinkler system. So it backwashes and it sprinkles out the waste, the dirty water out of the system.

[Amelia] (29:55 - 29:55)

Okay.

[Frank] (29:55 - 29:59)

But you never drain the system into a septic tank. You’ll kill it. 

[Amelia] (29:59 - 30:01)

Yeah I reckon. 

[Frank]

Because it’s just over capacity. 

[Amelia]

Yep

[Frank]

You may laugh, I’ve done some on beachside properties where literally you’re 2 minutes walk from the beach and they’ve put a pool out the front. 

[Amelia]

Oh really?

 [Frank]
Yeah and this is Tasmania, For you mainlanders it might be quite normal in sunny areas but here in Tassie it’s a little bit more unusual. 

[Amelia]

Yep

[Frank]

Especially when you’re right on the beach

[Amelia]

Oh exactly

[Frank]

Turners Beach, Dolphin Sands, St Helens, 

[Amelia]

Yeah, wow. 

[Frank]

Yeah

[Amelia]

Beautiful spots though

[Frank]

Oh they’re amazing spots, but I remember seeing one it was at Bicheno and it looked straight over Waubs Bay, they had a whole indoor pool and literally you could throw a rock from their front verandah onto Waubs Beach. 

[Amelia]

Really? Wow that’s ah…

[Frank]

It was pretty extreme

[Amelia]

Yeah pretty extreme

[Frank]

So yeah. 

[Amelia]

So any other take home points for anyone wanting to learn more about human waste treating?

[Frank]

It’s working with a designer and your EHO consultant to achieve your desired result. 

[Amelia]

Yep

[Frank]

And it’s having a system that will never give you an ounce of trouble. 

[Amelia]

Yes so I guess consider the size of the house and everything too especially if you have budget restrictions 

[Frank]

Just remember small site, really, really hard to do. 

[Amelia]

Yep. 

[Frank]

We’ve just done one on a site, an existing house site a small extension, renovation on a 550m2 block 

[Amelia]

Oh wow! 

[Frank]

It’s tiny and it’s partly in the river, the title

[Amelia]

That would be tricky to try and work with. 

[Frank]

We were working for years trying to get this thing through and we finally got it through. And we’ve had to use specialised systems and flood inundation, if it floods, you can imagine, sea level rise and all that, will potentially wash it all out into the river. 

[Amelia]

Yep

[Frank]

So we’ve overcome that and it was tough our environmental health consultant was awesome and it was really hard on them doing this job and the council they’re just doing their job, I’m not going to say they made it hard they made it challenging but they had to protect the waterways.  

[Amelia]

Yes

[Frank]

And it was a super tough site. And it took a long time and negotiations back and forth finding solutions to problems.  

[Amelia]

Wow and that can’t be cheap either?

[Frank]

It won’t be but the position of the house and everything 

[Amelia]

Will look really good?

[Frank]

Oh you got your own jetty

[Amelia]

Oh it’s pretty nice!

[Frank]

You can drop a line in 

[Amelia]

Oh that’s alright

[Frank]

Yep 

[Amelia]

Living the dream 

[Frank]

Living the dream, It’s very cool

[Amelia]

That’s a nice place to wrap it up, Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. 

[Frank]

Catch ya’s later

[OUTRO]

You’re listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.