E83. Can I do this without a permit?

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast Frank and Amelia are joined by special guest Tahleah, a building designer, to explore the often-complex world of home renovations, building permits, and compliance. 

They highlight several real life scenarios discussing what you can and can't do on your property without needing a permit. 

They discuss the potential consequences of taking on home projects without the proper approvals. For example: 

• What happens if you decide to convert your garage into a livable space? 
• Or add a swim spa or hot tub to your backyard—do you need to worry about pool fences and drainage?
• Can I remove a wall in my home? 
• If I do a bathroom renovation do I need a plumbing certificate? 
• Can I run a business from my shed? Do I need a permit?

Tahleah shares expert insights into the critical details that often get overlooked during renovations, from slab types to moisture barriers and fire safety. 

Frank dives into real-life stories of DIY mishaps and unapproved building work that ended up causing major headaches for homeowners. The trio explains why getting the right permits can save you time, money, and stress in the long run.

Whether you're thinking about adding a deck, converting a shed, or building a granny flat, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you avoid costly mistakes and navigate the tricky world of home improvement with confidence. 

Tune in for valuable tips on how to stay compliant and ensure your renovations are done the right way!

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E83. Can I do this without a permit?

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective.

[Amelia] (0:26 - 0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. I'm your host, Amelia. And once again, we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:44)

Hey Amelia, how are we?

[Amelia] (0:44 - 0:45)

Oh, look pretty good.

[Frank] (0:45 - 0:47)

Friday, glass of wine.

[Amelia] (0:47 - 0:49)

Oh, can't get much better than that.

[Frank](0:49 - 0:50)

And a special guest.

[Amelia] (0:51 - 1:08)

Yeah, we've got Tahleah back. 

[Tahleah]

Hello. 

[Amelia]

Well, we can't get rid of her.

[Tahleah]

There was wine. 

[Amelia]

There was wine. Welcome Tahleah.

[Tahleah]

Thank you for having me. We've got an exciting topic to talk about today. We're going to talk about what can I do? Can I do this? Can I do that? Can I build a deck?

[Frank] (1:09 - 1:10)

This is to your house, I take it.

[Amelia] (1:10 - 1:17)

Yeah, to your house. What else did you think? 

[Frank]

Well, you didn't start with that.

[Amelia]

Oh, well. Most of our listeners should know by now.

[Frank] (1:17 - 1:19)

It's about..

[Amelia]

what we're talking about. 

[Frank]

Yeah, true, true.

[Tahleah] (1:19 - 1:21)

Is what I'm doing illegal? That's where we're going with this

[Frank] (1:21 - 1:34)

Or legal. Is it legal? What can I? And hang on, I've got to put a bit of a disclaimer here. We're basing this on the Tasmanian regulations and the director's specified lists.

[Amelia] (1:35 - 1:38)

So it might be different from wherever you're listening from.

[Frank] (1:38 - 1:58)

Every state, every council on the mainland might be a little bit different. But we're just going to talk about Tasmanian rules. And look, it probably applies to a lot of other places.

But, and hopefully we'll give you some tips on what to look out for. So, what do you want to do to your house, Amelia? 

[Amelia]

Oh, everything.

[Frank]

We're not going to ask Tahleah tell her what she's done to her house. We've done, she's torn the thing apart.

[Amelia] (1:59 - 1:59)

She has.

[Frank] (1:59 - 2:01)

And designed this beautiful extension.

[Frank] (2:02 - 2:08)

And I did it with a permit, Frank. 

[Frank]

What are you saying? I'm just saying.

[Tahleah]

Just make sure you have a permit.

[Frank] (2:08 - 2:10)

Yes, very much so. Permits are a rock.

[Amelia] (2:11 - 2:17)

So I take it yours was legal then, Tahleah? 

[Tahleah]

Yes, absolutely. 

[Amelia]

That's a relief. That's a relief.

[Frank] (2:18 - 2:21)

And it's beautiful. 

[Tahleah]

Thank you.

[Amelia] (2:21 - 2:28)

So the first thing I'd like to know is I'd like to remove a wall in my house. Can I do it?

[Tahleah] (2:28 - 2:29)

Is it structural?

[Amelia] (2:30 - 2:32)

I don't know. How do I tell? 

[Tahleah]

Good question.

[Frank] (2:32 - 2:34)

Find someone who can tell you.

[Amelia] (2:34 - 2:35)

Can you tell that from the plans?

[Frank] (2:36 - 2:46)

Yes, I can. In a lot of cases, if, like I know your house, it's a 60s house. So that means the roof would have been pitched.

[Amelia] (2:47 - 2:47)

It is pitched.

[Frank] (2:47 - 3:01)

It doesn't have trusses. That means more than likely 50% chance that the wall is load-bearing, depending on the orientation of your ceiling joists and the hanging beams and how the roof is held up with posts.

[Amelia] (3:01 - 3:02)

Okay.

[Frank] (3:02 - 3:14)

So there's a good chance that it would be. So then someone has to go up there to actually have a look, see where it's loading on, and then you can make a decision whether you need to pull that one out or would need to get a lintel designed.

[Amelia] (3:15 - 3:20)

So would I need to engage a designer for that or do I need to engage an engineer?

[Frank] (3:20 - 3:37)

I would recommend get a structural engineer to assist you. They don't get overly excited by just one lintel, I must say. And it may require a building drawing as well.

So a designer, an architect might be able to just assist, do a quick drawing, get the engineer to size something, and make a submission.

[Amelia] (3:39 - 3:58)

Yes. 

[Frank]

Pretty simple. 

[Amelia]

Potentially, and I mean, I'm sure this has happened plenty of times before. You've had people that have gone in and done these beautiful renovations themselves. 

[Frank]

Yep. 

[Amelia]

And...

[Frank]

Didn't think they needed a permit. 

[Amelia]

They didn't think they needed a permit and they didn't think that the wall they took out was load-bearing.

[Frank] (3:58 - 3:59)

Well, how would they know?

[Amelia] (3:59 - 4:00)

Well, exactly.

[Frank] (4:00 - 4:02)

Yes, but they find out after they do it.

[Tahleah] (4:02 - 4:18)

I actually heard a really interesting thing the other day and I don't know if it's true, but apparently real estate's maybe bringing in that you, if you're selling your house, you need to sign a waiver saying that all the work you've done or has been done in your house is legal.

[Frank] (4:18 - 4:19)

Yeah, some of them are already doing that.

[Tahleah] (4:19 - 4:25)

Yeah, because if you do purchase a property and there are illegal works in there, that becomes your problem.

[Frank] (4:26 - 4:31)

Buyer beware, we've brought that up a few times, haven't we? 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

So, but how do you know?

[Amelia] (4:31 - 4:38)

Yeah, exactly. 

[Frank]

How do you know a wall's been pulled out? 

[Tahleah]

Sometimes there's some telling signs. Sometimes there's part of a wall still hanging out of the roof.

[Frank] (4:38 - 5:01)

Yeah, that's always a winner. But generally people, when they're selling it, it's all pretty well tidied and it's well covered up. And they probably thought they did the right thing. And we've had to fix heaps of them. And there's different ways of doing it. Destructive investigation, non-destructive investigation.

It's subject to every type of conditions and how it works out. I've had the same, they put in a big ass stacker of sliding doors.

[Tahleah] (5:01 - 5:24)

Yeah, so I guess if you were putting in a big sliding door, that's a bit harder because you don't know if a lintel's been put in that is sized for that door. But if it was a wall... Now, if you were buying a property, I would be suggesting you get a building inspection done first.

And if it was a wall, you could see where the loading is by looking in the roof space. If it's pitched or if it's a truss roof, that's usually on the outside.

[Frank] (5:24 - 5:33)

I'll give you another story, a weird one the other day. I went to go up on the roof, I climbed up in there, which wasn't real pleasant, and they had a fully ducted AC unit.

[Tahleah] (5:33 - 5:35)

Where was that sitting? Was there a truss cut out?

[Frank] (5:35 - 5:50)

No, no, because pitched roof wasn't too bad. Right in the direction of where the lintel was, I couldn't get up, over, see it or anything. So what was cool though, the engineer went there, popped a down light in, put his little tiny camera up through and he could see the lintel.

[Tahleah] (5:51 - 5:51)

Yeah.

[Frank] (5:52 - 6:11)

So there's means and ways, but look, all I can say is go get someone to check it and the builder has to get permits for it to make sure, sorry, the builder either has permits arranged or he only does work with permits supplied. Not listen to a builder, yeah, this will be right, I'll stick a 4by2 up there and, you know, do this, do that, bang, no permits, no nothing.

[Tahleah] (6:11 - 6:36)

I've had several illegal works come to me recently and it is so frustrating because I really want to help people, but sometimes I can't, or sometimes it's not worth them spending the money to fix it. A common one is putting another toilet in or there's been a toilet and a shower been put in without a plumbing permit and no notification, perhaps they've cut into the slab to put that plumbing in, there's no permit.

[Frank] (6:36 - 6:38)

Like saw cutting a slab to fit your plumbing in.

[Tahleah] (6:38 - 6:51)

Correct, and one that I've had recently, which is really challenging is a deck that was built by somebody who is not a builder and took the money and ran, and there was no engineering, it wasn't done properly.

[Frank] (6:52 - 6:53)

Over a metre high?

[Tahleah] (6:53 - 6:54)

Oh yeah, there's a lot of problems.

[Frank] (6:55 - 7:15)

In Tasmania, there's a clause, if the deck is under a metre, not in a bushfire prone zone, not built over an easement, not in a landslip, you can build it without a permit. But who's going to tell you what sizes to use when you go have a Christmas party and you've got 50 of your best mates bouncing on this thing, so that's structurally adequate. That's the thing I don't get.

[Amelia] (7:15 - 7:16)

That's a good point.

[Frank] (7:17 - 7:23)

There's been a few cases of parties on decks and collapses, there's a horrible one that happened in Sydney many years ago.

[Tahleah] (7:24 - 7:26)

I think they brought that up in our university degree.

[Frank] (7:26 - 7:46)

Oh, and so they should, it was just horrific. So this is where things should be built properly, you've got to get the right advice. And sorry to the builders out there, you know I love you, but there are some builders out there that don't do the right thing, don't get the right sizings, or go to someone who knows and design the right members for your deck.

[Tahleah] (7:47 - 8:05)

So then another question is, who do you go to if you do need a permit? For example, a lady recently came to me, she wanted to put a toilet in, one toilet in an existing bathroom, and she was told she needed an architect to do that. An architect can do that.

[Frank] (8:05 - 8:09)

Yeah, that's fine, architect can do it, a building designer can do it, that's fine.

[Tahleah] (8:09 - 8:13)

Correct, a building designer, draftsperson can also do that for you.

[Frank] (8:13 - 8:15)

No, draftsperson can't, they're not licensed.

[Tahleah] (8:15 - 8:16)

What license class have they got?

[Frank] (8:16 - 8:20)

They don't, that's the whole thing, it's either building designer or architect.

[Tahleah] (8:20 - 8:22)

Okay, I guess that depends on the definition then.

[Frank] (8:22 - 8:23)

Yeah.

[Tahleah] (8:23 - 8:28)

I'm thinking somebody that is a domestic licensed building designer in Tasmania.

[Frank] (8:29 - 8:35)

Yeah, class one tens, yeah, that's right. They've got to have a license, and the government's done this to protect everyone.

[Tahleah] (8:36 - 8:37)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:37 - 8:40)

Doesn't protect against people that don't have licenses.

[Speaker 2] (8:41 - 8:49)

No, and then with this particular toilet, normally that would be a low risk, but because it was combined sewer stormwater, it triggers a permit.

[Tahleah] (8:50 - 8:56)

This is, hey, this is Launceston, by the way, because we have combined stormwater with our sewerage, which is pretty special.

[Tahleah] (8:57 - 9:02)

Yeah, so that's adding an extra load and putting in a plumbing fitting that wasn't there beforehand, has caused this to need a permit.

[Frank] (9:02 - 9:13)

Yes, and then it compounds, doesn't it? Because it becomes a, well, we have a roof replacement, they may get a permit because they wanted to replace the roof, add some downpipes, and then they had to go for a full permit.

[Tahleah] (9:13 - 9:37)

And then what if it's not residential and you want to do a new business in an existing business space, and maybe you've checked with the planning department and the business you want to run is allowed, it is permitted in that zone. Seems like you've done the right thing, you've checked with council, but the existing use class is different.

[Frank] (9:37 - 9:39)

Easy to trap to fall in.

[Amelia] (9:40 - 9:41)

Mm, wouldn't be.

[Frank] (9:42 - 9:49)

So, that's commercial. Is commercial, however- Gotta be aware, you wanna start a small business, make sure you can do it in the space that you want to do it in.

[Amelia] (9:50 - 9:51)

Yes.

[Frank] (9:52 - 10:02)

It's getting the research done at the councils. The problem is it's a technical jargon. We talk to people about building classes, permitted uses, previous uses, and your head's going, you're spinning.

[Amelia] (10:02 - 10:12)

Oh, it's so confusing for the average punter out there. 

[Frank]

Yeah, the wording. 

[Amelia]

How are they supposed to know?

[Frank]

It's the wording. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, exactly. 

[Tahleah]

It is really hard. But I try and explain that planning and building are two different things.

[Frank] (10:12 - 10:12)

Yep.

[Tahleah] (10:13 - 10:15)

And the reasons we have the different classes.

[Frank] (10:15 - 10:25)

Yep, and that's right. And all you need to do is go talk to a professional to explain it and do the research for you. That is either an architect or a building designer.

[Tahleah] (10:26 - 10:49)

What I find really frustrating because it traps so many people is they don't know and then they go and buy a property or take out a lease on a property and they get a builder in or a plumber in and say, I want to do this. And then that builder or plumber says, you need a designer. The designer looks at it and says, oh, you need a lot more.

Or you can't do what you want.

[Frank] (10:49 - 10:56)

Yes, we've had to break the news to a lot of people. Or it's going to take you a lot longer and it's going to be expensive.

[Tahleah] (10:56 - 11:00)

A lot more money. And if, especially in a business sense, you were budgeting.

[Frank] (11:01 - 11:03)

Yeah, but also you haven't even started your business yet.

[Tahleah] (11:03 - 11:04)

No, you were budgeting.

[Frank] (11:05 - 11:07)

And now it's going to take you four months to get going and you haven't got an income.

[Tahleah] (11:08 - 11:08)

Exactly.

[Frank] (11:09 - 11:17)

So this is…talk to lots of people beforehand. Never take for granted. Hey, it is a commercial space.

I can do whatever I like.

[Tahleah] (11:18 - 11:20)

The real estate said so. Must be true.

[Frank] (11:21 - 11:32)

Unfortunately, there are some real estate agents that actually don't know and they get the wrong direction. I've had it with residential as well. Hey, can you put a skylight in with or without a permit?

[Amelia] (11:32 - 11:42)

That's a good one. Yes or no?

[Frank]

And what type of skylight?

[Tahleah]

That's a really good question, Frank. Is it structural? 

[Amelia]

And does it matter what it's for?

[Frank] (11:43 - 11:43)

What do you mean?

[Amelia] (11:44 - 11:59)

Like, if it's in like a home, like I've seen a skylight in a home, but we've done a project recently where we've done a skylight on a pool house. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, that's true. 

[Tahleah]

Good one.

[Amelia]

So is that different? Are the rules different? Because not like a livable area or?

[Frank] (11:59 - 12:04)

Well, let's just stick with residential. The answer is yes, you need a permit.

[Amelia] (12:04 - 12:05)

Really?

[Frank] (12:05 - 12:06)

Yep, for a skylight?

[Amelia] (12:07 - 12:08)

It doesn't matter on the size or?

[Frank] (12:09 - 12:22)

No, no. It's under the director's determinations because one thing is generally structural. You've got a waterproofing issue and also it changes, well, they don't bring that into on old homes, but it changes your thermal properties of your house.

[Amelia] (12:23 - 12:24)

Okay. 

[Tahleah]

Sure, but you're not…

[Frank] (12:25 - 12:27)

It's a penetration through the outer skin.

[Tahleah] (12:27 - 12:28)

Yeah.

[Frank] (12:28 - 12:35)

It's like you adding a brand new window or door to the side of your house. Again, by rights, you'd need a permit for that.

[Tahleah] (12:35 - 12:37)

Sometimes you're exempt from that.

[Frank] (12:37 - 12:38)

Sometimes.

[Tahleah] (12:38 - 12:39)

But it's best to check.

[Frank] (12:40 - 12:42)

Yeah, it's clear as mud, isn't it?

[Amelia] (12:43 - 12:53)

I don't understand any of it because there seems to be a rule for this and a rule for that and exceptions for this. And I find it really confusing, to be honest.

[Frank] (12:53 - 12:56)

You should see the book, the book that we have to reference.

[Tahleah] (12:57 - 13:36)

I also get confused sometimes. It is really challenging. Like we look at this stuff all the time, every single day.

No person's question is ever the same as the last person because their house is in a different town with a different overlay. There are so many variables that you have to take each case, case by case and talk to the right people. And sometimes I need to speak to a building surveyor. I might need to speak to a planner. I might need to speak to a permit authority. There are a lot of people that know different things and we tend to bring it all together.

[Frank] (13:37 - 13:44)

That's exactly right. You can talk to a planner and you think you've got it all sorted. Then you talk to someone in the building department and you haven't got it sorted.

[Tahleah] (13:45 - 13:47)

You don't know the right question to ask.

[Frank] (13:47 - 13:52)

And here's the thing, you never get the advice in writing either. Just another point. Always get your advice in writing.

[Tahleah] (13:53 - 14:10)

I emailed a planner today and asked them the existing use class on a building and the planner gave me the information that she knows about. But again, I don't know if a building permit has been issued with that use class. I need to go to the building permit authority now.

[Frank] (14:10 - 14:12)

Because that seals it.

[Tahleah] (14:12 - 14:13)

Seals the deal.

[Frank] (14:13 - 14:16)

Seals the deal. Yeah, it's an interesting one.

[Tahleah] (14:16 - 14:27)

But if you went and you said, I'm taking a lease out on this property and I want to put this business in there, am I allowed to do that? The planner's going to say, sure, it's permitted. Okay.

[Frank] (14:28 - 14:31)

It doesn't mean the class fits the space because you may need a firewall.

[Amelia] (14:32 - 14:34)

Okay. Yeah, that's…

[Frank] (14:34 - 14:42)

My favourite one was, someone contacted us to do a distillery. And in Tasmania, they're pretty popular.

[Amelia] (14:42 - 14:44)

I mean, they are. There's quite a few.

[Frank] (14:44 - 14:46)

Oh man, we love our distilleries.

[Amelia] (14:46 - 14:46)

we do.

[Frank] (14:46 - 15:01)

I think we like the end product more than anything else. But anyway, this guy wanted to do it in his back shed at the back of his house. And I said, that could be a little bit challenging, mate.

So I went through a few different things, like, you're on the boundary, you need firewalls, you need to be a certain distance from your home.

[Tahleah] (15:01 - 15:03)

Are you allowed to do it in his planning zone?

[Frank] (15:03 - 15:03)

No.

[Tahleah] (15:04 - 15:04)

Oh.

[Frank] (15:04 - 15:08)

But the planning, sorry, the planning said potentially yes.

[Amelia] (15:08 - 15:10)

So it was a discretionary application?

[Frank] (15:11 - 15:23)

They led this person down a path. So then he was determining, and I said, well, you're on the boundary, you need firewalls. It's commercial, but it's in my shed.

Well, your shed becomes commercial. How far is the shed away from the house? Oh, it's about two metres.

[Amelia] (15:23 - 15:24)

Oh, no way.

[Frank] (15:24 - 16:17)

It won't comply because it's too close, because it's now commercial. And you've got a certain amount of litreage of alcohol in there. I'm not even talking about whatever stuff you make and put in a barrel to store it.

So, you know, all this stuff has become a lot harsher because TASFIRE just recently, they're working on new guidelines. And basically you've got to put these massive water tanks in there. It doesn't matter what size the commercial distillery.

Because even if it's small, like a really small distillery, and you want to start playing around and selling stuff at the- 

[Tahleah]

Evandale markets. 

[Frank]

Evandale markets or wherever you like, you still got to go through the tax department, the excise, you still got to run it exactly as any other size business. And you've got to meet all the standard building regulations, fire regulations.

[Tahleah] (16:18 - 16:20)

I've got a good one for you. Amelia.

[Frank] (16:20 - 16:21)

It's with the alcohol?

[Tahleah] (16:21 - 16:31)

No, well, it could be. Amelia, I have a garage built onto my house. We're having another baby and I want to take out my garage door.

[Frank] (16:31 - 16:32)

Does Dale know about this?

[Tahleah] (16:33 - 17:02)

Yeah, surprise. I just got chubby. I'm not really pregnant, but I'm being hypothetical, Frank, settle down.

So I've got a garage attached to my house. So I have an internal entrance to my garage and I want to take out my garage door and I want to put a bedroom in there. I love that.

And I want to put a window in there so I can see out. Am I allowed? 

[Amelia]

Sounds wonderful. My first question is, and I think we have spoken about this before, it has something to do with the type of slab.

[Tahleah] (17:03 - 17:04)

Good one. 

[Frank]

Bingo.

[Amelia] (17:04 - 17:05)

Yeah.

[Frank] (17:05 - 18:00)

If it's been built with the house, generally the slab will be okay. And they would have built it the same as their house. So the concrete slab has got a plastic underneath it.

So that's a moisture barrier. Replacing the roller door is a challenge as well because of how the roller door stops at the floor level. And as soon as you put a window or a wall in there, you've now got to put a barrier to stop the water coming into that room.

Because with the garage, a bit of water goes under the door, it's not the end of the world. But when it comes under your carpet, that's horrible. It gets mouldy, smelly and all the rest of it.

So you've ended up got to either cut the concrete or cut in a flashing or something like that. So it gets more complicated. So when it's directly built with the house, it's actually one of the easier ones.

It's when it's detached or built in a different construction type, then it's a horror show. It's really hard.

[Tahleah] (18:00 - 18:10)

But why can't I just do it myself? Why would I need a permit to just change my garage door and put up a couple of walls inside?

[Frank] (18:10 - 18:45)

And I've had to deal with those as well. And you know that and you've done it. 

[Amelia]

That's change of class, surely.

[Frank]

Thank you. Yes, that's exactly right. Change of class. So a shed is a shed. You can do whatever. We don't care if water gets in there and all the rest of it.

But as soon as you make it habitable, someone's living in there. It has to be healthy, not moist. No chance of mould building up.

It's got to be able to ventilate. You've got to have natural light going through. All those really basic things, which makes sense.

Sometimes it's really hard to do that with an older shed or garage because it wasn't designed for that.

[Tahleah] (18:45 - 18:47)

What if I want it to be an Airbnb?

[Frank] (18:48 - 18:57)

Oh, that's even better. Same requirements. And then you've got that fire component because you've got to be able to escape.

Is it connected or not connected?

[Tahleah] (18:57 - 19:00)

In my instance, I'm thinking it might be connected.

[Frank] (19:00 - 19:13)

Okay, it's connected. So then you want an Airbnb. Well, it could be called boarding, but anyway, that's a whole other discussion.

Then you've got the smoke detectors connected. Is it in a bushfire prone zone?

[Tahleah] (19:14 - 19:14)

Maybe.

[Frank] (19:14 - 19:17)

Yeah, because it can't be any greater than a BAL 12.5, can it?

[Tahleah] (19:17 - 19:18)

No, not for visitor accommodation.

[Frank] (19:18 - 19:24)

No, and then you've got to have clear exits and they've got to have the bushfire management plan.

[Tahleah] (19:25 - 19:30)

So if all that sounds too hard and I just decide to do it, what happens?

[Frank] (19:31 - 19:36)

I don't care. Someone's skin on my nose. It's only to get caught, isn't it?

[Tahleah] (19:36 - 20:05)

How will I get caught? How will anybody know that I'm doing this? 

[Amelia]

So hang on, let's just jump back a couple of steps.

Did you just say you can't have visitor accommodation that is higher than about 12.5? That's correct. Surely there would be like those little nature retreat places like- How old are they?

I don't know how old they are, but surely they would be higher than about 12.5. There are performance solutions available sometimes.

[Frank] (20:06 - 20:16)

But just think about how many of these, I think there's one at Crater Mountain that just got a massive refurb. And I saw the photos, it looks absolutely amazing. But I looked at the cabins, they still look like the old cabins. They've been refurbed.

[Amelia] (20:17 - 20:19)

Ah, okay.

[Frank] (20:19 - 20:26)

So they still are the original building from 20, 30 plus years ago when bushfires didn't exist.

[Amelia] (20:26 - 20:27)

Interesting.

[Frank] (20:27 - 20:30)

Well, sorry, the risk of bushfire didn't exist.

[Amelia] (20:31 - 20:34)

Bushfire has always existed. 

[Tahleah]

I just don't think we've gotten onto it yet.

[Frank] (20:35 - 20:36)

Yeah, they were a bit thick back then.

[Tahleah] (20:37 - 20:50)

It's something that's really common though, isn't it? To have someone call up and say they want to change their shed to an Airbnb or a granny flat, even if it's just for grandma literally to live in.

[Frank] (20:50 - 21:19)

Which is, yeah, the granny flat, yeah. Which is really hard to do sometimes. And we're talking about sheds or garages that are prefabricated.

So you've got your tin shed that are very common. The slabs are wrong. They might have plastic.

If they don't have plastic, it makes it more difficult. The frames need to be upgraded from a wind bracing and tie-down point of view. You need to insulate it, put more windows in.

It can be done, but sometimes it's more cheaper just to rip the lot down and start again.

[Tahleah] (21:19 - 21:19)

Yeah.

[Frank] (21:20 - 21:32)

You know, it's also interesting is we're going on a total tangent here. When you want to set up your own home business within your house, which you already built a separate flat in the lower floor.

[Tahleah] (21:33 - 21:33)

Spicy.

[Frank] (21:34 - 21:48)

Yeah. Class one upstairs, separate class, is that a class one B? Class two.

Underneath, fire rated, we did it. Now he wants to run a practice for his new business inside the house or in the garage.

[Amelia] (21:49 - 21:49)

Wow.

[Frank] (21:50 - 21:50)

Yeah.

[Tahleah] (21:50 - 21:52)

It's becoming quite a mixed use building, isn't it?

[Frank] (21:52 - 21:53)

Oh, it's complex.

[Tahleah] (21:53 - 21:54)

It is complicated.

[Frank] (21:54 - 22:03)

But it's home based business. So there are other things, but he's bringing the public in. So for consults, and I was thinking, oh, this is going to be interesting.

[Amelia] (22:03 - 22:13)

That would be very complicated. And that affects so much more than just your house as well. And it affects your insurances and heaps of different things.

[Tahleah]

Yeah, you need public liability just to start. Yeah.

[Frank] (22:13 - 22:15)

Oh yeah, but even your home insurance, you can't use home insurance.

[Amelia] (22:16 - 22:16)

That's right.

[Frank] (22:16 - 22:31)

You know, there's been a few documented cases where you've been denied because you've run your home business out of your house or you've got your home van, business van there and it's next to the house and they reneged on the insurance because it was home based insurance.

[Tahleah] (22:32 - 22:47)

So what if I had a two story house and downstairs there is a room, but then there's a bit of a sub floor area and maybe I'd like to add an ensuite to that room.

[Frank] (22:47 - 22:49)

Yeah, add the ensuite. We can do that.

[Tahleah] (22:49 - 22:53)

I'm not sure if the structure's okay or the ceiling heights are okay.

[Frank] (22:53 - 22:58)

For the bathroom or for the ensuite, because we need 2.1, don't we?

[Tahleah] (22:58 - 23:04)

Yeah, and what about ventilation and how does it affect my existing footings and sub floor ventilation to my actual house?

[Frank] (23:04 - 23:25)

Yep, horses for courses for every house. You've got to go investigate to see. Oh, actually Shannon's place.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

We did this massive extension of the house. We had to underpin chunks of the house and we fitted this massive space under there and windows and everything.

We did that and it was complex. But I believe it's worked well.

[Amelia] (23:25 - 23:29)

Yeah, it's a big rumpus room for the kids and they love it.

[Frank] (23:29 - 23:38)

I actually spoke to the builder recently on that one and he said, yeah, it worked out. Everything measured up, everything went spot on. Got the heights working well and all the drainage in the toilet.

[Tahleah] (23:39 - 23:45)

So Frank, I also might have a deck and you said before- 

[Frank]

You're just gonna test me on this, aren't you? 

[Tahleah]

I am.

[Frank] (23:45 - 23:45)

Good work.

[Tahleah] (23:46 - 23:48)

I'm testing to see if I know the answers.

[Frank] (23:48 - 23:48)

Yeah.

[Tahleah] (23:49 - 23:58)

So you said before I can have a deck and it's under a metre high and I'm not in a bushfire prone or a landslip area.

[Frank] (23:58 - 24:00)

Or not building over an easement.

[Tahleah] (24:00 - 24:17)

Not building over an easement. It's all really low risk. But I really would like to put a roof on it because we live in Tasmania and- 

[Amelia]

It gets cold.

[Tahleah]

It gets cold and rainy or even really hot in summer. And I think that I should attach the roof to my house as well.

[Frank] (24:17 - 24:26)

Yeah, sounds great. Well, the roof requires a permit then. Because then you- Permit?

Yes, so the roof requires a permit and guess what? Then your deck requires a permit.

[Amelia] (24:26 - 24:27)

Even if it's under a metre?

[Frank] (24:28 - 24:32)

Yep. So you put a roof over the top because you've changed the structure.

[Amelia] (24:33 - 25:05)

Okay. 

[Tahleah]

I had one where the real estate- So two things here. How do I get caught?

Compliance officers look at real estate listings. That's one way. And I had an inquiry where they had a very low deck. Very low risk. But then they put a hot tub on it. So then it was holding a weight. And then there's also a gazebo. 

[Amelia]

That is a lot of weight. 

[Tahleah]

It's now not low risk.

[Frank] (25:05 - 25:06)

Yeah especially if things are sloshing around in there.

[Tahleah] (25:07 - 25:19)

It's also decreased the height near the swim spa. So the pool fencing is also now not high enough. And I've got, this person has a offer on their house.

[Frank] (25:19 - 25:40)

Oh no. That's a mess. 

[Amelia]

That's awful.

[Frank]

Because you've got a safety issue on two different levels. Deck wasn't designed to hold one to two tonne of water and you haven't got the correct pool fencing. Or sorry, the pool fencing is now non-compliant due to the circumstances.

Yeah, nice work. There's your sink, pull it out.

[Tahleah] (25:40 - 26:02)

I thought so. Or what if I am using my garage for my office? No one's going to find out because I'm never going to do an extension.

I'm never selling. That's fine. Great.

Now my neighbour's gone and put in a planning application for their new garage, which is potentially overshadowing my space, which now the plan is looking at my space.

[Frank] (26:03 - 26:05)

Yep. And go, what's going on here?

[Amelia] (26:06 - 26:06)

Yeah.

[Frank] (26:06 - 26:10)

Yeah, that does happen. Yeah, nosey little buggers, aren't they?

[Tahleah] (26:10 - 26:18)

Yeah. So, bottom line, just get some advice because otherwise you're going to come to me with your illegal works and I'm going to be really frustrated.

[Frank] (26:18 - 26:19)

And I'm sick of them!

[Tahelah] (26:19 - 26:31)

I'm sick of them. 

[Amelia]

And keep in mind when it comes to anything that's been done and you're asking for permission after the fact…

[Tahelah]

Way more expensive.

[Amelia]

Way more expensive.

[Tahleah] (26:31 - 27:04)

Because of the liability. 

[Frank]

It's so hard. It is so hard to fix stuff because you can't actually see what's behind the plaster or under the slab or...

I did one with Sadi the other week and it's a shed converted to a house. But then they cut the top of the roof off and lifted it 1.2 metres and just welded the bits on. And I was just shaking my head.

[Tahleah]

I would have just walked away. 

[Frank]

But then they built the new floor. It's two storeys. They put the new floor. They made it out of steel. And when I looked at it, my jaw dropped.

It was magnificent.

[Tahleah] (27:05 - 27:06)

Was the person a boilermaker?

[Frank] (27:07 - 27:08)

Well, you'd think so, but he wasn't.

[Amelia] (27:08 - 27:09)

Wow.

[Frank] (27:09 - 27:17)

And it was just really impressive. Like, wow, would it cost so much more money doing that? But yeah, it was just really impressive.

[Tahleah] (27:17 - 27:18)

I've got a good one.

[Frank] (27:18 - 27:22)

So some parts were great. Other parts were not. Like they can't find a waterproofing certificate.

[Tahleah] (27:23 - 27:29)

Yeah, always get your waterproofing certificate. That is a really big one because there are a lot of bathroom renovators.

[Frank] (27:29 - 27:29)

Yep.

[Tahleah] (27:31 - 27:34)

What about swim spas?

[Frank] (27:34 - 27:34)

What about them?

[Tahleah] (27:35 - 27:37)

I just want to put a swim spa in, Frank.

[Frank] (27:37 - 27:38)

Yeah, so put a pool fence up.

[Tahleah] (27:38 - 27:38)

Do I need a permit?

[Frank] (27:40 - 27:51)

I don't believe you need a permit for a swim spa, but you need to put pool fencing around it. Subject to the size and where it is positioned and access.

[Tahleah] (27:52 - 27:55)

Does it make a difference if I'm on sewer or waste water?

[Frank] (27:55 - 27:59)

Ooh, that's a great question. On a swim spa.

[Amelia] (27:59 - 28:01)

Why would that make a difference?

[Frank] (28:01 - 28:03)

Because if you need to get rid of the water.

[Amelia] (28:03 - 28:05)

Oh, that's a good point. 

[Tahleah]

Where are you putting all that water Amelia?

[Amelia] (28:06 - 28:09)

Yeah, true. 

[Frank]

For example, if you put a pool in your backyard, right?

[Amelia] (28:10 - 28:10)

Yes.

[Frank] (28:10 - 28:13)

And for whatever reason, they need to do a repair or clean something or do whatever.

[Amelia] (28:13 - 28:13)

To drain it.

[Frank] (28:13 - 28:47)

To drain it. The pool got, and I'll do a plug here, Tas Reef Pools, Pool Mart in Launceston, great guys, do a great job. They will come in with a vacuum truck to get rid of the water as they're doing any repairs or any adjustments that need to be done.

But they have to do it because they need to prop the pool. So the idea is you don't put in your septic because your septic can't handle it. And the chemicals in there will kill the septic or package treatment plants.

So don't do it. If you're out rural, put it out of the panic.

[Tahleah] (28:47 - 28:49)

Yeah, sure, if you've got the space.

[Frank] (28:49 - 28:52)

Or get a vacuum truck in, the vacuum truck will do it.

[Tahleah] (28:52 - 28:55)

And how often a year do I need to discharge my water?

[Frank] (28:55 - 28:57)

Yeah, out of your swim spa. I actually don't have a clue.

[Tahleah] (28:58 - 29:00)

I think it might be a manufacturer specification. Generally it's twice

[Frank] (29:00 - 29:09)

There's also some wonderful chemicals in there that turn your hair bleach. Does a nice bleaching job.

All the hair you gotta pull out of the filter.

[Tahleah] (29:09 - 29:10)

I was born like this.

[Speaker 1] (29:10 - 29:11)

Yeah, el-natural.

[Tahleah]

Grey

[Frank] (29:14 - 29:15)

You’re not grey

[Tahleah]

It’s going that way 

[Frank] (29:15 - 29:16)

We're all going that way, hey, you got nothing.

[Tahleah] (29:16 - 29:16)

I know.

[Frank] (29:17 - 29:20)

So yeah, that's a good question. Swim spas and all that. That is a good question.

[Tahleah] (29:21 - 29:22)

What about a hot tub?

[Frank] (29:22 - 29:24)

I love hot tubs. You know I like a hot tub.

[Tahleah] (29:24 - 29:26)

I like a hot tub. But do I need a pool fence?

[Frank] (29:27 - 29:31)

Yes, any water that's greater than 300 millimetres in depth.

[Tahleah] (29:31 - 29:32)

I thought it was 400.

[Frank] (29:33 - 29:34)

It was the last time I checked?

[Tahleah] (29:34 - 29:42)

No, it might be. It might be 300. You might be right.

[Amelia]

That came up, that question actually in our frequently asked questions episode. Yeah, that was a good one.

[Frank] (29:43 - 29:49)

Yeah, and that's where you have ponds and features and that's where you see mesh in there a lot. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Mesh just below the surface.

[Tahleah] (29:50 - 29:57)

How about this one? What size shed am I allowed to build without a permit? I'm just going to knock up a shed on the weekend.

[Frank] (29:57 – 30:04)

36 square metres if it's a proprietary shed and not greater than 2.4 at the eaves. 
 
 

[Tahleah] (30:04 - 30:07)

So I can’t just design it myself on the weekend?

[Frank] (30:07 – 30:12)

You can design but just got buy a prefabricated one. It’s all pre-engineered. Makes life a lot easier.  

[Tahleah] (30:12 – 30:15)

What if it’s within 6 metres of my house, I’m in a bushfire prone area?

[Frank] (30:15 – 30:20)

6 metres, yeah if it’s within 6 metres you need to have a bushfire permit for that. 

[Amelia]

Surely you would need a permit? Because wouldn’t you need fire walls and stuff?

[Frank] (30:22 – 30:27)

No not necessarily. You just need to get a bushfire management plan

[Amelia]

Ok. 

[Frank] (30:29: 30:36)

And you might have to put a 10,000 litre tank in if you haven’t got one already, if you’re in an area where you need to get that assessed. 

[Tahleah] (30:36 – 30:40)

So it makes the um, the shed a lot more expensive?

[Frank]

Oh it does. So just make sure it’s not within 6 metres. 

[Amelia]

Ok. 

[Frank]

Don’t put it right next to it.  

[Amelia] (30:45 - 30:57)

Ok, so just wrapping up what, and in generic terms, do people need to do if they’re not sure on what they can and can’t do on their existing property? 

[Frank] (30:57 - 31:46)

Talk to a competent professional. And I’m talking about a building surveyor, building designer, architect, all these people can help you.  The reason I chose those 3 they have the broad experience from planning, bushfire, landslip, NCC requirements and the directors specified list as a Tasmania centric thing. Those 3 professions have to work in this field and have to understand all this stuff.  You go to the council no offense to people at the council you only know the part that you are specialised in.  In the planning department. If you’re a building surveyor at the council, yep bingo, no worries, but don’t talk to you know the environmental health officer.

[Tahleah]

No don’t talk to them. 

[Frank]

Don’t talk to the plumbing inspector, don’t to the lady at the front desk. They don’t know. 

[Tahleah]

And get your advice in writing, if they’re not willing to put it in writing then I would not take their advice with a grain of salt. But I always think that we are a GP of building design because we do have to know the right questions to ask the right people.  And know when it’s outside of our scope where you don’t know that. 

[Frank]

Yeah we poke and prod a lot don’t we?  

[Tahleah] (32:12 – 32:17)

We do do a lot of prodding but you don’t necessarily know the right questions to ask and that’s where we can help. 

[Frank] (32:17 – 32:46)

Yeah we prod and ask lots of questions and understand a lot better and people don’t realise why we ask this, these are really weird questions but it has a bearing on understanding what you want to do because the commercial side of things is so complex.  So you need to ask heaps and heaps of questions. And don’t be scared, there are no dumb questions with this stuff and anyone can come and ask.  And it may get to the point where hey we might just need to charge you a couple of hours to give you expert advice.    

[Amelia]  

Yeah and that’s fair too. 

[Tahleah]

But that is cheaper than spending the money and then needing the expert advice later and it’s costing a lit more. 

[Frank]

Doing it again or pulling it out or…yep. Not real good 

[Tahleah]

Takeaway would be if it was structural or has potential to be structural. Then definitely you’re very likely to need a permit.  If it is new plumbing again quite likely to need a permit, commercial definitely be checking 

[Frank]

Just check everything 

[Amelia]  

Do your research 

[Frank]

Yeah we keep talking about that 

[Amelia]  

Yeah we  bang on about that don’t we? 

[Frank]

Yeah, come and talk to us.  There’s plenty of professionals in Tasmania that can give you this advice.  

[Amelia]  

And more than willing to give it to you.  

[Frank]

Help you out. If you need more just pay them by the hour just to give you the right advice.  But if you want to do commercial development they are going to have to pay a lot more money because it’s a lot more complex.   

[Amelia]  

Yeah, definitely. Alright we might wrap it there folks, thank you so much Tahleah for coming in and joining us today 

[Tahleah]

Thanks for the wine. 

[Frank]

No worries, every time I bring wine you’re coming? 

[Tahleah]

Yep absolutely. Is it next week?

[Frank]

We’ll do shots next week 

[Amelia]  

Oh my goodness! 

[Tahleah]

That’s a bit spicy 

[Amelia]  

That will be a wobbly podcast

[Frank]

Catch ya’s later, 

[Amelia]  

Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast 

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