E89. What happens if you have a flood overlay on your property?

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, Frank and Amelia dive into one of the most misunderstood aspects of land and property development — flood overlays. Whether you're looking to buy a block of land, planning a renovation, or designing your dream home, knowing whether a flood overlay affects your site is absolutely critical.

You'll learn what a flood overlay is, how it can impact your design, and why it’s not always visible to the untrained eye. Frank talks about the importance of site-specific reports and working closely with structural engineers and flood specialists to create solutions that meet compliance while still achieving your design goals. From managing flood risk to accommodating natural water flow and debris during floods, Frank and Amelia discuss real-world examples of how these challenges are addressed in design.

Frank and Amelia also break down how to research flood overlays using tools like the PlanBuild Tasmania and The LIST website and why speaking directly to local council planners — not just the front desk — is essential for getting accurate, up-to-date information.

Plus, Frank touches on other overlays like bushfire and heritage zones, and how evolving regulations can change what’s allowed on your block — even after you’ve owned it for years.

If you're unsure whether flood risk affects your property or want to know how to navigate these restrictions, this episode will leave you informed and prepared.

🎧 Tune in to learn how to build smarter and avoid costly surprises.

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E89. What happens if you have a flood overlay 

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design Primetime podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designer's perspective.

[Amelia] (0:26 - 0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time podcast. I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:43)

Hi Amelia.

[Amelia] (0:43 - 0:45)

Oh look, it's a Ripper Friday.

[Frank] (0:45 - 0:46)

It's a Ripper Friday.

[Amelia] (0:46 - 0:46)

It is.

[Frank] (0:46 - 0:50)

Before we head into winter. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

We're about to lose our daylight saving.

[Amelia] (0:50 - 0:51)

I know, that's a little bit sad.

[Frank] (0:52 - 0:54)

Oh, you know it's going to get dark, cold and miserable.

[Amelia] (0:54 - 0:55)

That's exactly right.

[Frank] (0:56 - 0:57)

Anyway, welcome to Tasmania.

[Amelia] (0:58 - 1:00)

At least everyone's got the podcast to listen to.

[Frank] (1:00 - 1:03)

Oh, that's true. And I'm not going to say to keep you warm.

[Amelia] (1:06 - 1:21)

No. So, if you've been following along from last week, our previous episode, we spoke to Leanne who was talking to us about bushfire. So, I thought this week let's do a little bit of turning of the tables and talk about flood overlays.

[Frank] (1:22 - 1:24)

Gee, you couldn't have much more of a contrast, can you?

[Amelia] (1:24 - 1:28)

Exactly. Opposites attract. Or not.

[Frank] (1:28 - 1:49)

Not quite.

[Amelia]

No, they don't. 

[Frank]

But what's crazy sometimes, we spoke about bushfire prone zones and we were doing research and I've said it before, where you're in a bushfire prone zone, but also you're in a flood prone hazard area. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

That's what's called the planning scheme. So, if bushfire ain't going to get you, the flood's going to get you.

[Amelia] (1:49 - 1:50)

Double whammy.

[Frank] (1:50 - 1:52)

Double whammy. Don't build there.

[Amelia] (1:52 - 1:55)

No, it doesn't sound very ideal at all.

[Frank] (1:55 - 2:35)

But in Tasmania, we are very blessed with such a natural state with lots of rivers and creeks and flood prone areas and mountains and hills and valleys and all sorts of stuff, which makes it an interesting place and great place to live as well because you could be long distance in the Tamar Valley, you know, and then you go all through the coast, Central Highlands, all around Tassie and you've got all these valleys and mountaintops people have built their houses on and amazing places up in the Highland Lakes, down in the valleys.

But when we're getting down the valleys, we're closer to all these rivers and creeks or even flat plains, we have flooding.

[Amelia] (2:36 - 2:37)

We do, yes.

[Frank] (2:37 - 2:46)

Or in Launceston's case, reclaimed land, which is the Invermay, Inveresk area, which is, I've been told, is a reclaimed swamp.

[Amelia] (2:46 - 2:53)

It pretty much is a swamp. And, I mean, you can tell because you drive along the road and there's just so much movement when a truck goes past.

[Frank] (2:53 - 3:07)

Oh, yeah, you're bouncing around. But for you AFL fans, you may watch the footy games in Launceston at, I think it's Utes Stadium currently. You see Aurora Stadium.

To us locals, it's York Park. That is all reclaimed swamp.

[Amelia] (3:07 - 3:08)

It is.

[Frank] (3:08 - 3:12)

Yep. And they had to go down a long way with the piles to support those buildings.

[Amelia] (3:13 - 3:13)

I reckon.

[Frank] (3:13 - 3:40)

So, and that's how it is. But what's interesting, when we're looking at if you have a property in that area, you come under a specific Invermay-Inveresk flood inundation. Because the federal government gave lots and lots of money to build levees to protect that area.

It's had multiple huge flood events. When I'm talking huge, I mean, we're going up two and a half, three metres in places of water.

[Amelia] (3:40 - 3:41)

Yes. And they have, don't they have sirens?

[Frank] (3:41 - 4:06)

Yeah, they have sirens and flood locks at the bridges and all sorts of stuff. And the most recent near catastrophe was, and our office is actually in Invermay. We had to evacuate.

We're a two-storey building, so we're pretty safe. I've got plenty of whiskeys and noodles to keep me going for a couple of days if I get stuck here. But my car might not be much chop at the end of it.

But that was only, I think, about seven or eight years ago where she nearly breached the levee.

[Amelia] (4:07 - 4:07)

Oh, wow.

[Frank] (4:07 - 4:21)

Perfect storm, because Launceston's fed by two major rivers, and then the Tamar Valley, that's an estuary. So if you get a king tide, flood water coming in from both rivers, you get the worst case scenario. Perfect storm.

[Amelia] (4:21 - 4:22)

Yeah, wow.

[Frank] (4:22 - 4:51)

Yeah. So the levee did work back then. It didn't breach.

It got very close. But we have all these protections in place. But what it's done now, the council and planning has restricted what we're allowed to build in here.

So when it comes to residential, you're not allowed to build a new residence below that flood line. So if you've got an existing house, you can't even extend it more than 10% of the floor area. So that makes it really tough for the people that live there.

Unless you go up and you're outside the flood plain, but then there's a heap of restrictions on that as well.

[Amelia] (4:52 - 4:52)

Wow.

[Frank] (4:52 - 5:20)

So that's just in Launceston. It's quite unique in that sense. But if you go all around the rest of the state, you've got creeks and rivers.

And you then have flood inundation or flood-prone hazard areas. And you've got to go under a code. And you know the real worrying thing is you might have a brand new subdivision.

And you think, oh, this is wonderful. I can build my new house. And I've had this for a few clients.

And they didn't do their research. And it had flooding mottled over the subdivision.

[Amelia] (5:21 - 5:21)

Really?

[Frank] (5:21 - 5:43)

Yeah. Well, how do they do it if it's known at the time? So they try and make sure that it all goes down the road.

And the road is designed to collect all the water. And if the stormwater system overloads, it then flows through the road and out to a point safely. The houses, things need to be considered with the houses as well.

Because if it breaches it, you don't want it coming in through your front door.

[Amelia] (5:43 - 5:44)

No, definitely not.

[Frank] (5:45 - 6:06)

And if it's a known issue, well, then obviously your insurance will go, well, it's a known issue. Why wasn't it designed that way to make sure the water doesn't come in the front door? But then you get those freak events like they had in Hobart a number of years ago.

And that was a 1 in 113 year storm event. And there was cars going down the street on their own.

[Amelia] (6:06 - 6:07)

I remember that one.

[Speaker 1] (6:07 - 6:28)

Huge retaining walls, failing houses, massive failures everywhere. And it was horrific. I know the councils down there, they also had another problem with all the big rivulets and stormwater systems weren't cleaned out on a regular basis.

And that caused a major problem as well. So they didn't do the maintenance. It all got backed up.

A bit clogged up.

[Amelia] (6:28 - 6:28)

Yeah.

[Frank] (6:29 - 7:12)

So this is where the councils are responsible to make sure the system's working well, it's well cleaned, but also allowing people to build or extend in known areas that are flood prone. So here comes the problem. If your house is in a flood prone area, we just did one recently, and someone put a granny flat in the back of the house.

No problem. Easy peasy. Flood prone hazard area.

So we had to spend close to $5,000 on a report to then justify putting this granny flat in the back. So we had to lift it up above a certain height, above the predicted flood level by a certain amount. And we were able to get it passed, no worries.

And then things were taken into consideration like the footings and what type of flooding it is too.

[Amelia] (7:13 - 7:17)

Okay. So you're not allowed to extend past 10%?

[Frank] (7:17 - 7:18)

That was in Invermay.

[Amelia] (7:19 - 7:20)

Oh, so this is not in Vermeer.

[Frank] (7:20 - 7:39)

No, but everywhere else, I don't believe there is none of that restriction. In Vermeer, we're very fortunate here in Launceston, they put a lot of restrictions. Proper use reasons, because when it floods, if it fails, it's going to fail really bad.

Really bad. A bit like a few other cities around Australia that are just built on flood plains. Lismore.

[Amelia] (7:39 - 7:41)

Yes, that's a good example. That floods.

[Frank] (7:41 - 7:41)

Keeps flooding.

[Amelia] (7:41 - 7:43)

Really bad. 

[Frank] (7:43 - 8:12)

Yeah, really badly. So in Tasmania, because there's so many creeks, waterways and stuff in and around the cities and the towns, and you go into rural areas as well, you've got to keep a lookout. And this is part of that research. If you're buying a house or buying a block of land, it's easy to check.

It's all mapped on a thing called the list, which is our wonderful Tasmanian government website. It's wonderful. Then you use the thing called plan build, and you type your address in, it'll tell you all those items in there.

[Amelia] (8:12 - 8:13)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:13 - 8:27)

We've spoken about that before, so it's wonderful. So like I said, if you do find that you want to do an extension on your home, you're in a flood-prone hazard area, prepare to spend between $3,000 to $5,000 on a report. And then the design has to be altered to suit.

[Amelia] (8:28 - 8:28)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:28 - 8:41)

Okay. But that is only to handle a certain level of flood. When you go over above a normal, like a freak event, well, then you've still got a few issues there, potentially.

So there's a risk involved with all this.

[Amelia] (8:42 - 8:50)

Yes. You have to wonder, though, like how many people that go buy off a nice, pretty-looking subdivision with green grass.

[Frank] (8:50 - 8:51)

Which they usually are.

[Amelia] (8:51 - 8:51)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:52 - 8:55)

They look very nice. But it's even existing homes. But it's existing homes too.

[Amelia] (8:56 - 8:56)

Yes, that's true.

[Frank] (8:57 - 9:09)

Yes. So that's really unfortunate, and it's knowing where the flow path goes as well. So you can get a double whammy.

You can get the perfect storm of bushfire, flood, waterway, coastal protection, you know, trifecta there.

[Amelia] (9:09 - 9:13)

That's a fair amount of money that you would have to spend on reports right there.

[Frank] (9:13 - 9:18)

Exactly right. Yes. And those reports may not be favourable to your project.

[Amelia] (9:18 - 9:19)

No, that's right.

[Frank] (9:19 - 9:31)

So that makes it really hard on explaining that to people. That like, well, this is going to be expensive, or we can't do certain parts, or we do have to modify the site. Whatever it may be, we have to look at alternatives.

[Amelia] (9:31 - 9:41)

So are there any situations where you purchase a property, a block of land that has a flood overlay and you can't build on them? Or not really?

[Frank] (9:41 - 9:47)

I've not come across that, because normally at subdivision, if they're the new subdivisions and it's known, they won't allow it.

[Amelia] (9:47 - 9:48)

What if it's an old block?

[Frank] (9:48 - 10:02)

Old block's different, because say if it's like 50, 70, 100, 150-year-old block, you know, and yeah, that could be the case. It's no different buying old blocks where there's landslip on it.

[Frank] (10:02 - 10:03)

Yeah, that's true.

[Frank] (10:03 - 10:15)

Like we've seen that up the Tamar Valley, up at Rosevears, and there's patches of active landslip or high-risk hazard bands. Unless you check, you don't know. And you could be walking straight into a problem and they won't let you build on it.

[Amelia] (10:16 - 10:19)

Yeah, and that's devastating when you get that situation.

[Frank] (10:20 - 10:26)

But here again, people aren't disclosing this information when they sell it, which is a bit morally wrong too, isn't it?

[Amelia] (10:27 - 10:27)

Yes.

[Frank] (10:27 - 10:43)

We keep talking about the research, buying blocks, buying houses. It's very important to check all these items out. And your lawyer doesn't necessarily know where to look for this stuff.

You're conveying some specialists are very good at it, some are not. And they're not aware what even half this stuff means.

[Amelia] (10:43 - 10:50)

So what sort of people actually do these reports and this kind of research? Who do you engage for this sort of stuff?

[Frank] (10:50 - 11:09)

Well, first things first, you need to find out, is there an overload? Is there something on it? And it might be under the state planning scheme, but it also could be under the specific, what they call the local provision schedule as well, specific to that council.

Now, aren't we lucky? We've got 28-odd councils in Tasmania.

[Amelia] (11:09 - 11:10)

Because we need 28?

[Frank] (11:10 - 11:48)

Because we need 28. Because, yeah, we just need it. Don't get me started.

Then that means you've got to check. Each one of those municipalities might have a slightly different opinion on that. And then some councils have not had a high risk when it comes to some of this flooding.

So it's not a high priority for them. So they may not have it on their maps, or they haven't had the research. Getting consultants in to actually do the analysis for the flood overlays in that town or whatever.

I mean, I was looking at one at Railton. There's a creek going through there, and that floods badly. Because they asked me to look and put some units in the back.

I said, hello, we've got a problem here. You don't want to build there.

[Amelia] (11:48 - 11:49)

Yeah.

[Frank] (11:49 - 11:55)

The damage to the building, you may not get insurance for it. That's a good point. If it happens once, you may not get insurance the second or third time.

[Amelia] (11:56 - 11:56)

Yeah.

[Frank] (11:56 - 12:01)

Especially if it was known that it was put in there, why would an insurance company bother insuring it if it's a known problem?

[Amelia] (12:02 - 12:03)

Exactly.

[Frank] (12:03 - 12:15)

So all this stuff is available online. But also you can ask for the right people at the council to give you the right information in relation to the planning scheme and the local provision schedule on the overlays.

[Amelia] (12:15 - 12:23)

So you're saying you could even purchase a property, and when you purchase it, it doesn't have any issues with flooding?

[Frank] (12:23 - 12:24)

They may not tell you.

[Amelia] (12:25 - 12:27)

Or just simply because they haven't got the data for it?

[Frank] (12:28 - 12:29)

Or know where to look.

[Amelia] (12:29 - 12:35)

Or know where to look. But possibly in the future, you could potentially have a problem with flooding. Is that right?

[Frank] (12:35 - 12:36)

Oh, 100%.

[Amelia] (12:36 - 12:39)

So just because you're safe now doesn't mean you're safe later?

[Frank] (12:39 - 12:40)

No different to landslip.

[Amelia] (12:40 - 12:41)

True.

[Frank] (12:41 - 12:42)

No different to bushfire.

[Amelia] (12:42 - 12:42)

Yeah.

[Frank] (12:42 - 13:25)

Bushfire maps are pretty well known now. You can see the risks there with the overlay maps. But there's all sorts of stuff you've got to look at.

There's another one I've got to add in, and this is up near the Meander Valley in Tasmania. And it's called the cask. And if you're not familiar, and someone's going to correct me on this, it's the limestone features.

So it's limestone rock. So water going through there. And it's wild stuff because you get sinkholes popping up anywhere.

You can't build in certain areas of the cask area where it's active. Where water coming underground will spew up out of the ground. Form a bit of a geyser or form a sinkhole.

You can have a creek that goes along and then it stops. It disappears down a hole.

[Amelia] (13:25 - 13:26)

That's so random.

[Frank] (13:26 - 13:33)

It is very random. But it's a real thing. And they have to protect it, but also got to protect anyone building there.

[Amelia] (13:33 - 13:35)

Yeah, you don't want to be sinking into a hole.

[Frank] (13:35 - 14:10)

Well, this is exactly right. And once it's known, that is also part of that research as well. And this is where you've got to talk to the right people.

If you want to go to the council, you've got to talk to the right people. And the planning guys are great to help with that as well. The planning consultant can help with that to look at all the overlays via the plan build.

Plan build website's very good at finding it. So there's a number of people who can do it. We have to use it a fair bit.

We're not planning specialists. But most design architects get involved in it. But planners, specialists, consulting planners can research that far better for you.

[Amelia] (14:10 - 14:19)

So the council's the best person to talk to, not a building designer? Because I thought a site analysis would be a good option.

[Frank] (14:19 - 14:40)

Yeah, you're right. But it's not as conclusive as getting a planner involved. We can certainly do it, and many other guys can.

But when the local planning provision's scheduled, there's a lot more work involved. And it can be done, but you might only pick up 90% of the information, whereas a planner should be able to pick up 100% of that.

[Amelia] (14:40 - 14:48)

Okay. So what sort of increased costs would be involved in, you know, building something on an area that's prone to flooding?

[Frank] (14:48 - 14:57)

If you're allowed. Like I said, the last couple of reports we did range from $2,500 to $5,500, subject to what it is.

[Amelia] (14:57 - 15:05)

And what about the construction type? So I'm guessing, like you used Invermay as an example, you had to drill down.

[Frank] (15:06 - 15:16)

Well, no. For housing, we don't. Yeah, it gets complex with Invermay because you're sitting on, you know, anywhere between 8 to 25 metres of sloppy porridge under there.

[Amelia] (15:16 - 15:17)

Pretty much.

[Frank] (15:17 - 15:31)

And there's a crust on Invermay. And you don't go through the crust unless you're a big, heavy building, and you put piles down. Like the local Bunnings, I think, went down 25 metres.

York Park, the UTAS Stadium went down about 20 to 25 metres as well. It's a long way down.

[Amelia] (15:32 - 15:34)

Oh, yeah, that's a hell of a way down.

[Frank] (15:34 - 15:51)

And once you get through the crust, she's not real good under there. If you leave your shovel there, it might not be there in a little while. Oh, yuck.

But, yeah, but that's what it is because it's also affected by tide. The Tamar River is an estuary, and it is tidal, and that affects – the land does go up and down.

[Amelia] (15:51 - 15:52)

Okay.

[Frank] (15:52 - 16:22)

But that's different to the other type of floods where you've got creeks that will, you know, overflow, carrying the capacity as part of the – you know, they've got a large catchment, and it floods. And then you've got smaller ones where you've got overland flow path, which they class as flooding from storms and stuff where the stormwater system can't handle it. And that's usually the ones we deal with, and you're getting reports to say, well, this is where it predicted the water will rise to X amount, and it's all predictive.

So then we design the addition or the new house to deal with that.

[Amelia] (16:22 - 16:25)

So would that involve, say, for example, additional drainage?

[Frank] (16:26 - 16:37)

Well, the drainage isn't going to do anything, is it? Because it's overloaded already. So potentially, if it's flooding, it's hard to get the stormwater out, and the stormwater might be underground.

It won't handle it.

[Amelia] (16:38 - 16:41)

No. The water's got to go somewhere. That's what I'm getting at.

[Frank] (16:41 - 16:46)

That's what I'm saying. It's called that flood path. It will follow the easiest pathway out.

[Amelia] (16:46 - 16:47)

Yes.

[Frank] (16:47 - 16:49)

And it could be rushing past your back door.

[Amelia] (16:49 - 16:49)

Okay.

[Frank] (16:50 - 16:55)

And then how you design the house, the structure around that. So I spoke about these granny flats. They were sitting on steel poles.

[Amelia] (16:56 - 16:56)

Okay.

[Frank] (16:56 - 17:25)

They were always going to sit on steel poles, so it was nice and easy. I've had to do other ones. We've had to do reinforced concrete block subfloor walls because in, I'll use the Meander Valley River, or no, the Esk, South Esk River, I think it is, where that floods pretty heavily, and it goes to the back of Hadspen, and we had to do it in a garage.

It was slightly in the floodplain. We had to build it in such a way that could handle water rushing past, and not a lot, but what happens if there's a log in there or it comes crashing into the side of it?

[Amelia] (17:25 - 17:25)

Yes.

[Frank] (17:26 - 17:33)

Well, and there's debris in there from your dead sheep and cows to trees and all sorts of rubbish that gets dragged along a river when it's in flood.

[Amelia] (17:33 - 17:34)

That's true, yes.

[Frank] (17:36 - 17:43)

So these things are considered part of that design from an engineering perspective, so we leave that to the engineers to look at that.

[Amelia] (17:43 - 17:43)

Okay.

[Frank] (17:43 - 17:44)

It's weird stuff.

[Amelia] (17:44 - 17:46)

Yes, I can imagine.

[Frank] (17:47 - 18:05)

And because when someone owns a piece of land, they don't necessarily see these restrictions, and when you go tell them, it says, well, I still need to find a solution, so we'll find a solution. So that's where you use your structural engineers and your flood specialists, those specific engineers that do those reports and modelling.

[Amelia] (18:05 - 18:15)

Okay, so what are the take-home points for anyone that isn't sure whether their house has a flood overlay on there or they're looking to purchase a block that potentially has a flood overlay?

[Frank] (18:15 - 18:54)

Well, that's potentially... It's like what we say all the time. It is going through the process of looking in Tasmania, looking on the PlanBuild website.

That is by far the best. All the council information should be on there. Vice versa, you can talk to a planning expert, talk to the planners of the council to be able to assist you, what things to look out for, and that's probably your best bet to do that.

Like I said, we do site analysis as well, but the planners will be able to get into a little bit more detail. But you've got to talk to the right people at the council, not just the lady at the front counter who's the reception. They do a wonderful job, but it's actually the experts in that area.

Again, it's making sure you know what you're buying.

[Amelia] (18:55 - 18:59)

Yeah, and it's the same with anything, whether it's flood, fire, any of those overlays.

[Frank] (19:00 - 19:04)

Flood, fire, all sorts of crazy overlays. You might be in the heritage area.

[Amelia] (19:04 - 19:05)

Yeah, that's right.

[Frank] (19:05 - 19:17)

And that can be quite restrictive what you're allowed to build, and Northern Midlands has that for each town because they have a lot of heritage towns. They have these heritage overlays, and you can't build something modern in certain areas.

[Amelia] (19:18 - 19:18)

Yes.

[Frank] (19:19 - 19:30)

So you've got to follow the rules, and that's why you've got to know the rules before you purchase. Now, funny enough, when you've owned something for a while, the rules change, and you don't even know.

[Amelia] (19:30 - 19:31)

Yes, and that happens.

[Frank] (19:31 - 19:39)

And that's tough on some people. What do you mean I can't do this? Oh, you used to be able to do it.

Joe blogs up the roads, got it. Yeah, the rules have changed.

[Amelia] (19:39 - 19:39)

Yes.

[Frank] (19:39 - 19:41)

That's a hard sell.

[Amelia] (19:41 - 19:45)

It is. And that can actually, sometimes that can actually work in your favour.

[Frank] (19:46 - 19:55)

You can go the other way as well, make life a lot easier. But generally in this day and age, more and more red tape and stuff, you find it goes the other way, it makes it harder.

[Amelia] (19:55 - 19:59)

All right, well, we might wrap it up there. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

[Frank] (19:59 - 20:00)

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (20:09 - 20:13)

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