E94. Is it cheaper to buy or build?

In this down-to-earth episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, Frank and Amelia dive into whether it's cheaper to buy or build a home? They discuss the real-life challenges and rewards of tackling home renovations versus building from scratch. 

Frank and Amelia reflect on their own renovation journeys—like ceiling chunks falling mid-project and learning the hard way that not all DIY jobs are created equal. The message? Know your limits, plan carefully, and don’t be afraid to get your hands dirty. From deciding whether to renovate the kitchen or bathroom first, to budgeting for outdoor upgrades like decks or pergolas, this episode covers the importance of sequencing your work and finishing one space at a time.

Frank and Amelia talk about the value of good planning, how to get the best results without blowing your budget, and where a professional should step in. There's also a shout-out to the power of YouTube, patience, and good equipment—especially when painting!

If you’re not sure whether you will get more value from building or buying established, this episode will give you the confidence to get started and a realistic view of what’s ahead. 

It's an episode not to missed! Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode there is a new release each week! 

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E94. Is it cheaper to buy or build? 

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective.

[Amelia] (0:26 - 0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. I'm your host, Amelia. And once again, we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:44)

Hey, Amelia. How are we?

[Amelia] (0:44 - 0:46)

Pretty good. What are we talking about today?

[Frank] (0:46 - 0:57)

I think we're just going to go on a couple of little chats on this one. But I think someone asked me, what is better value, build a brand new house on new land or buy existing?

[Amelia] (0:57 - 1:03)

That's a really good question, because how do you know what to pick? Like, it's hard to know what you get most value with.

[Frank] (1:04 - 1:14)

Well, exactly. But it certainly appears buying is certainly better value. You know, you get more house, if you choose wisely in the right location, you get more house for your money.

[Amelia] (1:15 - 1:15)

Yes.

[Frank] (1:15 - 1:37)

And it might be about location as well, too. You know, buying existing and get you in the right location. But there's all sorts of things you need to consider.

But building a brand new house, very toasty, very warm, very efficient, doesn't cost a lot to run from a thermal, you know, the energy you put into it. All the new appliances, all the new finishes and carpets and painted and you don't have to do a thing.

[Amelia] (1:37 - 1:42)

You don't have to lift a finger. And that's actually quite appealing to a lot of people, isn't it?

[Frank] (1:42 - 1:45)

Oh, for sure. If you could run a busy lifestyle, why wouldn't you?

[Amelia] (1:45 - 1:45)

Yeah.

[Frank] (1:46 - 1:54)

But why wouldn't you buy? Generally colder, single glazed windows, needs maintenance, all those types of things.

[Amelia] (1:54 - 1:58)

It might not be sort of 100% what you want.

[Frank] (1:58 - 2:02)

Mind you, you can get more rooms, bigger house, you can generally get a bigger house.

[Amelia] (2:03 - 2:11)

Oh, I'd have to agree with you there. Like if you look at, you know, a 1970s, 80s, 

[Frank] (2:11 - 2:16)

60s, 50s, all that type of stuff and there's some big ass houses that for the money is awesome. Just a bit expensive to heat.

[Amelia] (2:17 - 2:18)

That's exactly right.

[Frank] (2:18 - 2:20)

the bathrooms might not be great.

[Amelia] (2:20 - 2:22)

Yeah, it's funny when you look at it, yeah.

[Frank] (2:22 - 2:23)

Kitchen's a bit daggy.

[Amelia] (2:24 - 2:25)

Oh, 100%.

[Frank] (2:25 - 2:27)

Entertainment areas are non-existent.

[Amelia] (2:28 - 2:30)

You might have the old shagpile carpet.

[Frank] (2:30 - 2:31)

Don't knock the shagpile.

[Amelia] (2:31 - 2:35)

Or the, that lovely wallpaper, psychedelic.

[Frank] (2:36 - 2:38)

Well, I like the velvet one, you know, the velvet wallpaper.

[Amelia] (2:38 - 2:44)

I don't know. I've never seen that. That sounds pretty bad.

[Frank] (2:44 - 2:47)

Oh, it was fine. It was it was a thing. Everything was a thing.

[Amelia] (2:47 - 2:49)

They can keep that thing, I think.

[Frank] (2:49 - 3:09)

But what the beauty of, I think though, is buying a existing house and then you can build a vision of what you want it to be. Renovating. 

[Amelia]

We've both done that.

[Frank]

Yep. Back in the day, me, all my friends I know generally did a level of renovating and whatnot on their house to make it theirs.

[Amelia] (3:09 - 3:10)

Yes.

[Frank] (3:10 - 3:33)

I don't see it at the same level anymore. Everyone wants you. But I can't help but think maybe it's about to change because you can get better value.

And from a valuation point of view, it's easy to get it valued when you've got an existing house, landscaped. You know, it may have all its window coverings, the chattels, you know, you already got all that in there. You know, but you've also got to consider, well, how do I make it mine?

[Amelia] (3:33 - 3:33)

Yes.

[Frank] (3:34 - 3:52)

You know, because it's an interesting thing is like if you've got that way inclined, I'm stunned at people's creativity on renovating or decorating in, you know, all sorts of houses. And they do beautiful jobs. I've also seen some other ones where it's their own personal taste, but it's not my cup of tea.

[Amelia] (3:53 - 3:53)

Yes.

[Frank] (3:53 - 4:11)

You know, and that's okay. It's yours. You know, it's a bit like customising your car.

It's your car. 

[Amelia]

That's right. 

[Frank]

Everyone judges you, but that's fine.

But why wouldn't you do the same with the house? And if it's easy to get into an established house, then you've got to consider it and start doing your own little renos.

[Amelia] (4:11 - 4:36)

And you know, especially, I know for me, first house my husband and I bought, it was an older house and we were excited to go down that road and, you know, start renovating and pulling up carpet and all of that sort of stuff because we saw so much potential in what we bought. But not everyone sees that when they walk into a house. They go, oh, that's got daggy curtains.

And oh my goodness, the carpets 45 years old.

[Frank] (4:36 - 4:36)

You can't see the potential.

[Amelia] (4:37 - 4:37)

No.

[Frank] (4:38 - 4:48)

No. And that's, I remember doing the same thing with my dad, trying to talk me out of buying my first house. And he goes, oh, this is mad. You know, you can't do all this.

[Amelia] (4:49 - 4:49)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:50 - 4:50)

I did.

[Amelia] (4:51 - 4:51)

Yeah.

[Frank] (4:51 - 4:57)

I learnt a lot. 

[Amelia]

Oh, so did I.

[Frank]

Didn't have much money. It's amazing how resourceful you become.

[Amelia] (4:57 - 4:57)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:57 - 4:59)

The main thing is not to cut corners.

[Amelia] (5:00 - 5:01)

Oh, exactly right.

[Frank] (5:01 - 5:10)

But I think buying a house that's been renovated and whatnot is also being aware of what's been renovated to make sure you're not buying something that's been done dodgy bodgy.

[Amelia] (5:10 - 5:20)

You make a very good point because a lot of people will say, oh, that looks like a beautiful new bathroom or beautiful new kitchen. But you know, did it require a permit?

[Frank] (5:20 - 5:47)

Yeah, exactly. Because if you just move one plumbing outlet, like move a sink in the kitchen and substitute that so it functions better, you need a permit. Now, I know that sounds harsh and all that.

But the reasoning is the plumbing departments need to know where everything works. Because if that thing leaks, anything fails, whatever, it actually can get you pretty sick. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

Or rot your floor out or do whatever. So rot the wall out. And I have seen it just recently. A really bad one.

[Amelia] (5:47 - 5:47)

Really?

[Frank] (5:47 - 5:56)

Yeah, it took out a load bearing wall. Rotted the bottom out of it and stuff. And it was a big claim. But it was just because the bathroom leaked in behind the taps in the wall.

[Amelia] (5:57 - 5:57)

Wow.

[Frank] (5:57 - 6:06)

But look, all this stuff happens. And like that, that building was nearly 50, no, it's 55 years old. And it's bound to happen.

It's old.

[Amelia] (6:06 - 6:07)

Yes.

[Frank] (6:07 - 6:33)

Okay, nothing lasts forever. So I would encourage people to look at renovating, add a pergola out the back, add a shed, add a, you know, entertainment area. Chuck new sliding doors in, you know, and if you're going to put a sliding door in, you do need to get a structural lintel put in. If you're replacing a window and it matches the size, not a problem. But as soon as you go bigger than that, you need to put a structural lintel and someone has to certify that.

[Amelia] (6:34 - 6:34)

Yes.

[Frank] (6:34 - 6:39)

So with pulling out walls, pulling out chimneys, same thing, you need a permit for that.

[Amelia] (6:39 - 6:39)

Yes.

[Frank] (6:40 - 6:42)

Because as soon as you pull out more walls, what's holding the roof up?

[Amelia] (6:42 - 6:45)

Well, exactly. You don't want the roof to fall down.

[Frank] (6:45 - 6:46)

Oh, no.

[Amelia] (6:46 - 6:47)

Minor detail.

[Frank] (6:47 - 7:25)

Just a minor detail. But look, these things can be addressed quite easily and quickly by your engineer and designer. So like I said before, I think it's great.

I think living in a, shall we say, a house that's not quite up to your standard for a little while so you can get an understanding of what you want to do. But I've seen some people, they just love renovating. 

[Amelia]

Oh, exactly.

[Frank]

And they come to us, get some lintels designed, I want to put a window here. And we just do a few things for them and they're off. You know, they're doing their reno, new kitchen, pop the wall out.

We've got all the permits for them. And it's really simple. And the decorating interior design is magnificent.

[Amelia] (7:26 - 7:28)

Oh, you can do some great stuff.

[Frank] (7:28 - 7:30)

And I think that's the fun side of renovating.

[Amelia] (7:31 - 7:33)

It's very creative, isn't it?

[Speaker 1] (7:33 - 8:15)

Yeah, especially if you've got a house that's still got an element of its original bones and features. And I love trying to keep as much of the history of a house rather than you paint over everything or you rip all the skirting boards off and replace them with modern ones. There's time and place for that.

But some of the old places are still very cool. I really like some of the early 60s stuff and what people do. You know, the red brick?

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

And with the timber windows and all that. I mean, I've seen people do great things, repaint the things on the outside.

And some of the design elements are very good. Some of them aren't, they're facing the wrong way, don't capture any sun. But the beauty is it's amazing what paint can do to a whole house.

[Amelia] (8:15 - 8:16)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:16 - 8:18)

And that's why I love the old weatherboard homes.

[Amelia] (8:19 - 8:27)

Even the flooring, you pull up, you know, old carpet and stuff and you find beautiful boards underneath that you can polish up and it looks phenomenal.

[Frank] (8:27 - 8:47)

And we're very fortunate here because there was huge resources of timber there was. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Not anymore. So hardwood, Tas Oak was very common in the flooring. It was just everywhere, tongue and groove. One of the guys here did that to his place, found out he had solid myrtle.

I had Baltic pine in my very first house.

[Amelia] (8:48 - 8:48)

Yep.

[Frank] (8:48 - 8:51)

So it's amazing what you find under that carpet.

[Amelia] (8:52 - 8:56)

Yeah, I remember that was one of the first things I did when I looked at our current house.

[Frank] (8:56 - 8:56)

Yep.

[Amelia] (8:56 - 8:59)

There was a patch where I could pull up the carpet.

[Frank] (8:59 - 9:00)

Yep.

[Amelia] (9:00 - 9:02)

It wasn't stuck down. I was like, oh, you beauty.

[Frank] (9:02 - 9:03)

Rip it off.

[Amelia] (9:03 - 9:04)

Yep.

[Frank] (9:04 - 9:10)

So some of the challenges when you're doing renos though, like, so it's two story and sometimes the balustrades are a bit daggy.

[Amelia] (9:11 - 9:11)

Yes.

[Frank] (9:11 - 9:31)

But if you can wait a few years, it kind of comes back in or you can change the colour or whatever. But mind you, there's one unforgivable one though. 

[Amelia]

What's that?

[Frank]

And my parents did in their 60s place. When the VJ lining colonial boards on the inside where they changed the look of bathrooms or had a feature wall of...

[Amelia] (9:31 - 9:32)

Oh, timber.

[Frank] (9:32 - 9:36)

Yeah, timber pine VJ lining. And it hasn't really stood the test of time.

[Amelia] (9:37 - 9:37)

Yeah.

[Frank] (9:37 - 9:41)

Mind you, ranch wall. That's that timber look, fake timber.

[Amelia] (9:42 - 9:42)

Oh, yes.

[Frank] (9:43 - 9:49)

That's making a comeback. 

[Amelia]

Is that really?

[Frank]

Well, in a different way, because you've put timber paddling up.

[Amelia] (9:49 - 9:54)

True. I guess there's a lot of feature walls nowadays even with that VJ.

[Frank] (9:54 - 10:10)

And there's the amount of resources available online. Any, you know, family, couple, singles, whatever. It's amazing what they can put together with what they find online, colours, features and do stuff to their house.

And it's utterly amazing. And you don't have to go berserk.

[Amelia] (10:11 - 10:11)

No.

[Frank] (10:11 - 10:24)

You know, paint is amazing. And natural timbers are amazing, especially in Tasmania. We're so blessed with that.

But then you see places, old places. I'm looking at one now. The old stone fireplace.

[Amelia] (10:24 - 10:25)

Oh, yes.

[Frank] (10:25 - 10:32)

So it was brick and they got the stone put around and then got hardwood cabinetry either side. Looks a bit daggy, but you give it a freshen up with paint and why not?

[Amelia] (10:32 - 10:33)

Probably come up all right.

[Frank] (10:33 - 10:53)

Can look okay. It's a shame to rip it out. A lot of times I've seen them painted and ripped out.

I saw one the other day that was ripped to shreds when we had a look at the renovation for a house. So I think it's an ideal situation for people to get into using their hands. You may not be perfect at this, but you can learn a lot on the way.

[Amelia] (10:53 - 10:53)

Yes.

[Frank] (10:53 - 10:55)

And you can add so much more value to your house.

[Amelia] (10:55 - 10:56)

Oh, definitely.

[Frank] (10:57 - 11:43)

You know, and then just with a bit of help of a designer, they can certainly help how the house will flow and work. Because a lot of the old houses, the kitchen, the dining, the living lounge are all compartmentalised, they're separate rooms. Whereas all the houses we design now are just big open space, so there's no reason why it still has to be that.

You might have to pull one wall out, you get a lintel, get that done, get a plaster in. I highly recommend getting a plaster in because that is not easy to get it looking nice. So then you look at your floor coverings, what you can do there is your windows.

Sometimes you're stuck on your windows. Because if the early 70s have got the anodised aluminium, and it's a bit hard to deal with those. But there's been some really good paint technology where we can paint over anodised.

[Amelia] (11:43 - 11:44)

Oh, really?

[Frank] (11:44 - 11:45)

And over powder coating.

[Amelia] (11:46 - 11:46)

Yeah, right.

[Frank] (11:46 - 11:55)

And it actually sticks and stays there. Old timber windows, if they haven't been maintained, they rot, they're a pain in the neck. So you got to rip them out sometimes.

[Amelia] (11:55 - 11:56)

Yes.

[Frank] (11:56 - 12:02)

There's not many guys that can fix them. So there's lots of different ways of making the place look really fresh. And I think it's fresh.

[Amelia] (12:03 - 12:03)

Yes.

[Frank] (12:03 - 12:06)

It doesn't have to look modern, it just needs to look fresh.

[Amelia] (12:07 - 12:07)

Exactly.

[Frank] (12:08 - 12:14)

And I'd challenge people to do that. But with our lifestyles, they've become busier, haven't they?

[Amelia] (12:14 - 12:16)

Oh, I think they definitely have.

[Frank] (12:16 - 12:23)

So then it makes it harder, you've got to commit. And as we said before, living in your own building squalor.

[Amelia] (12:24 - 12:26)

Oh, yeah, we've done it.

[Frank] (12:26 - 12:43)

Oh, dust through the house while you're doing stuff. Don't have water. Go to your parents' place for a shower because of the plumbing work on it, doing all that type of stuff.

It's worse when you've got kids running around. But I've seen plenty of people do it, they're determined, they get it done, take the hat off to them.

[Amelia] (12:43 - 12:45)

Yeah, there's a lot of sacrifice in that.

[Frank] (12:45 - 12:47)

It is, but it can be very rewarding as well.

[Amelia] (12:48 - 12:49)

At the end of the day, I agree.

[Frank] (12:49 - 12:54)

Yeah. Because you're actually getting your hands dirty doing this stuff. And just having a crack.

[Amelia] (12:55 - 12:57)

Oh, yeah, it is rewarding when you have done it yourself.

[Frank] (12:58 - 12:58)

Yeah.

[Amelia] (12:58 - 13:09)

As stressful as it is at the time sometimes. 

[Frank]

Oh, totally.

[Amelia]

It's not always easy.

Things don't always go to plan. Or you're trying to coordinate your own tradies and sometimes that doesn't quite work out.

[Frank] (13:10 - 13:14)

Yeah, that's a tough, you make a very good point there, organising the tradies, because some of the tradies don't take you seriously.

[Amelia] (13:14 - 13:15)

No.

[Frank] (13:15 - 13:24)

You know, and you really know what you're talking about. But with a tradie, you've got to be very clear what you want. And, you know, and they've got to be very clear back to say, I'm going to be here, we're going to do that.

Do not change your mind.

[Amelia] (13:25 - 13:25)

Yes.

[Frank] (13:25 - 13:37)

Just don't. That's why good planning goes into it. As soon as you change something, be prepared for delays.

Also, with the older houses, you've still got maintenance things. You've got to look at your roof, your gutter, your fascias, all that, especially the old ones.

[Amelia] (13:38 - 13:38)

Yeah.

[Frank] (13:38 - 13:45)

Yeah, they don't generally, the new ones probably don't last as long as the old ones, but they still need fixing up. The old ones were painted half the time.

[Amelia] (13:45 - 13:45)

Yes.

[Frank] (13:46 - 13:57)

And unlike the new ones now, they're powder coated. So from a maintenance point of view, they're magnificent. But it's very expensive because we have to put scaffolding up.

And as soon as you put scaffolding up, ouch.

[Amelia] (13:57 - 13:58)

That's a lot of cost. Oh, ouch.

[Frank] (13:59 - 14:25)

It's the only way to do it though. But I think opportunities are there. And I think you start small doing, you know, what I call cosmetic things.

You know, when it comes to kitchens, getting a new kitchen, you know, you can do a really nice kitchen without spending an absolute fortune. And there's heaps more options now. The problem I see is people over-spec'ing kitchens because they look at stuff in magazines and stuff and they go, I want all that.

[Amelia] (14:26 - 14:26)

Yes.

[Frank] (14:27 - 14:29)

And just, wow, your budget just goes.

[Amelia] (14:29 - 14:37)

And you have to realise too, sometimes you can't literally fit everything that you want either because you're restricted to a certain size.

[Frank] (14:37 - 14:50)

Well, older houses, the kitchens were quite small, generally. You know, I remember my first house, it was, there was a fireplace, there was one bench with a sink, and then there was this loose bench. And I recycled that for something else.

But that was it.

[Amelia] (14:50 - 14:51)

Yeah, there wasn't much to them.

[Frank] (14:51 - 14:54)

There was a kitchen table in the middle, it was your workbench.

[Amelia] (14:54 - 14:54)

Yeah.

[Frank] (14:54 - 15:07)

So then we put a modern kitchen in, and this was a 110 year old house. We ended up putting a sympathetic timber kitchen in there. And it's, I saw it got sold again the other day.

And the kitchen's still in there. 

[Amelia]

Oh, really? 

[Frank]

Yeah, that's from 30 years ago.

[Amelia] (15:07 - 15:07)

Oh, wow.

[Frank] (15:07 - 15:18)

Because it tied in with the Baltic pine lining. Yeah, the tops could probably do an update. But so far, it's all stayed the same. So if you choose the right thing, it could be long lasting to the house.

[Amelia] (15:18 - 15:20)

Yeah, that's very true.

[Frank] (15:20 - 15:25)

You know, for functions and services as well. But again, our expectations change, don't they?

[Amelia] (15:25 - 15:26)

Exactly right.

[Frank] (15:26 - 15:47)

So you might have a heritage home, we don't like having all the separate rooms, you know, compartmentalised, and we want to smack a few holes in, take a chimney out, guess what, you're going to need a permit. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

And please, everyone out there, if you do, just get permits for stuff.

You know, if you don't know, just come and ask a designer or a building surveyor, they'll tell you, don't go to the council, because you may talk to the wrong person.

[Amelia] (15:48 - 15:48)

Yes.

[Frank] (15:48 - 16:12)

Because you've got to speak to a specific person in there, do I need a permit? And only people in there really should be able to give you that advice are the building surveyors, or the permit authority within council. Otherwise, most people in the industry will help you.

And nothing against builders here. Some builders aren't aware of some of all the rules, because they don't specialise in this space.

[Amelia] (16:12 - 16:13)

Okay.

[Frank] (16:13 - 16:19)

So the builders, like we get builders asking us, do I need a permit for this? And so we check, yep, you do, or you don't.

[Amelia] (16:19 - 16:20)

Okay.

[Frank] (16:21 - 16:44)

So by you getting your permits means whenever you go to sell your property, it's not going to bite you when, hey, you're going to move, you're going to buy this dream house, right? But you rely on the sale of your house, and then someone buying yours relying on their house. But what happens if you've done renos, and they find out you didn't get permits for some of your stuff?

That means the whole deal potentially fall over, because it takes you six months to fix the potential problem.

[Frank] (16:44 - 16:50)

Yeah, and it's horrible. And then you miss out on the opportunity, and everyone's unhappy. 

[Amelia]

Exactly right.

[Frank] (16:50 - 16:54)

You're not, if you cut corners, you'll get caught, maybe not straight away.

[Amelia] (16:54 - 16:55)

Yep.

[Frank] (16:55 - 17:03)

So yeah, I think the renovation dream should be coming back in in a big way, but there's still not a lot of talk about it.

[Amelia] (17:03 - 17:13)

No, no, definitely not. Maybe people are looking at the easy alternative, not necessarily, well, buying new, so they don't have to lift a finger.

[Frank] (17:14 - 17:16)

But it might cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars more.

[Amelia] (17:16 - 17:25)

That's right. But when you think about it, maybe it's a generational thing, you know, people looking for the latest TVs or the latest phones.

[Frank] (17:25 - 17:39)

That's not much compared to, you know, if you buy an old house, it's four bedroom, whatever, in a certain area, brick house, and it might cost you $550,000 to get the equivalent, it might cost you $700,000 brand new or $800,000 brand new.

[Amelia] (17:40 - 17:40)

Yeah.

[Frank] (17:40 - 17:44)

Because of the cost of the land, the land now is worth an extraordinary amount of money.

[Amelia] (17:44 - 17:45)

Oh, yeah.

[Frank] (17:45 - 18:04)

Because we were looking at some houses, we were just talking before, we were looking at some of the house and land packages out there, to find something in, we're in Launceston, and every town, city all around Australia is going to be different. But you're looking at the cheapest we could find was about $460,000-odd thousand dollars.

[Amelia] (18:04 - 18:05)

The house and land package.

[Frank] (18:05 - 18:10)

The house and land package, because the land alone is like half the price of the house.

[Amelia] (18:10 - 18:11)

Yes.

[Frank] (18:11 - 18:35)

You know, and the house wasn't anything spectacular. But then you go, we've got other towns like Georgetown, Westbury, well Hadspen’s gone up in price, where Beaconsfield, you can get land pretty cheap, but they're not the desirable places to live. But that could be a temporary thing, get a brand new house and you get it for $440,000.

I saw one there, a bit over $460,000, four bedroom home.

[Amelia] (18:35 - 18:36)

Yeah, right.

[Frank] (18:36 - 19:00)

No garage. Be aware, when you're looking at these prices, we're not looking at garages, because garages, what would you pay for the space of a garage where you could have space in your house? I mean, you put a shed up, you put a carport up, whatever.

It's all very nice to drive into a garage. But at the end of the day, I'd rather have a house over a garage. So yeah, it's an interesting thing where I'd love to get some people's feedback on renovating, you know.

[Amelia] (19:00 - 19:01)

Yeah.

[Frank] (19:01 - 19:09)

We'll see some stats on it anyway, which is a bit hard, because you don't need permits. So you can't, in a lot of stuff, to give an old house a bit of a birthday.

[Amelia] (19:10 - 19:10)

Yeah.

[Frank] (19:10 - 19:15)

You know, give it a paint, repair, maintenance, bit of love, restore it. You don't need permits for that.

[Amelia] (19:15 - 19:29)

To be fair, though, do you think maybe people are a little bit too scared to try and do things themselves, given that there's so much more red tape these days? You know, my parents, their first house, they pretty much did it all themselves.

[Frank] (19:29 - 19:30)

Because they're allowed to.

[Amelia] (19:30 - 19:31)

They're allowed to.

[Frank] (19:31 - 19:34)

But to build the house back then was a lot simpler than it is now.

[Amelia] (19:34 - 19:35)

That's true as well.

[Frank] (19:36 - 19:44)

And the materials weren't as susceptible to moisture and damage as they are now. Bet you that house is nowhere near as warm as a new house, though.

[Amelia] (19:44 - 19:48)

Be okay. It's hard to compare, because, I mean, it was a unit.

[Frank] (19:49 - 19:51)

Yeah, exactly. But still, how it works, but...

[Amelia] (19:52 - 19:54)

It had floor heating. That was nice.

[Frank] (19:54 - 19:58)

Electric floor heating? 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

Wow, that was a thing, wasn't it? Gee, they're expensive to run.

[Amelia] (19:58 - 20:06)

Oh, that was so good. We used to get up in the morning and stick our hands and feet under the couch, because it was so warm under there.

[Frank] (20:07 - 20:10)

But, gee, they were expensive to run back then, because there was no insulation under them.

[Amelia] (20:10 - 20:12)

Yeah, it was just concrete floor under there.

[Frank] (20:12 - 20:14)

Concrete floor, and all that heat went into the ground.

[Amelia] (20:14 - 20:15)

Yes.

[Frank] (20:15 - 20:24)

Nowadays, when we do, you know, geothermal heating, but we've done a few of those. But what I meant was hydronic, where you run the water through the pipes, through the slab.

[Amelia] (20:24 - 20:25)

Oh, yes.

[Frank] (20:25 - 20:35)

But you've got to insulate it and keep the heat in there. And that's a beautiful heat, and probably one of the nicest heats you'll ever have, because you heat from the floor up.

[Amelia] (20:35 - 20:35)

Yes.

[Frank] (20:35 - 20:50)

It's very nice. And it's not as expensive, nowhere near as expensive as electric in the floor, which is different to undertile, so it's quite different. Yeah, so I'll be interested to see if there's going to be a trend going forward, people renovating a bit more.

[Amelia] (20:51 - 20:52)

Yeah, it would be interesting.

[Frank] (20:53 - 20:56)

Because I think it's the most affordable way to get in, to get something reasonable into a house.

[Amelia] (20:56 - 20:57)

Yeah.

[Frank] (20:57 - 21:01)

And to get the space that you potentially need. And then location, you've got to look at that as well.

[Amelia] (21:02 - 21:03)

Yeah, definitely.

[Frank] (21:04 - 21:12)

So here's a tip if you're buying something, and we've spoken about this, is you need to check if the house has had no illegal works done on it.

[Amelia] (21:12 - 21:13)

That it's got all of its permits.

[Frank] (21:13 - 21:27)

Well, not got all its permits, just that, is that someone actually applied for permits for changes in the house. Because the council won't say, oh, it hasn't got all its permits, because they've got nothing to compare to. So you can do all these works on the house, but they don't know.

[Amelia] (21:28 - 21:36)

Yeah, but they'll pick up on it with photos, surely, real estate photos. They don't. No, that's not their job.

How is it picked up then?

[Frank] (21:37 - 21:50)

Someone does an inquiry. So hey, I want to get all my drawings and permits of the house. Hang on, this is different to what I found at the house.

What's going on here? And quite a few are found out that way. Because it's good due diligence.

[Amelia] (21:51 - 21:52)

Yeah, it is.

[Frank] (21:52 - 22:02)

Protect your investment by doing a thorough investigation of what's been approved. Get all the plans, all the permits and compare what's on site. You need to know what you're looking at.

[Amelia] (22:02 - 22:03)

Yes.

[Speaker 1] (22:03 - 22:19)

But it will save you potentially so much money, especially on extensions. They're the extensions and massive renovations. So you gotta be real careful on that.

But anyway, I'd still encourage everyone to go down that renovation path, because I think it's very, very rewarding.

[Amelia] (22:20 - 22:20)

Oh, 100%.

[Frank] (22:20 - 22:22)

Nothing like living in your own building filth.

[Amelia] (22:22 - 22:25)

No, you're selling it so well.

[Frank] (22:25 - 22:44)

Well, the reality is, if anyone has had lathen plaster, that stuff's awful. The old, you know, if you don't know what it is, it's strips of timber shoved to the studs. All Narwhal hand, they're split.

They're horrible pieces of timber. And then they put on a cementous finish.

[Amelia] (22:45 - 22:47)

It's got horse hair and all kinds of stuff.

[Frank] (22:47 - 23:21)

No, some of it doesn't. It's just cement finishing it. And they slop it on and it squeezes through the slats and that’s what holds it in place.

Yes. Then the plaster, once they've got that relatively smooth, they put the plaster skim coat over the top and that gives it that finish. And then they give it a paint job.

And that's really old houses. So anything pre-40s, I think, even earlier. The problem is when the house moves and a slice of it dislodges and gets a crack in it, it cracks like you wouldn't believe.

I remember doing some work in my place and I was just doing, I was touching something in the ceiling. And then a big chunk just fell out of the ceiling onto the ground.

[Amelia] (23:21 - 23:21)

Oh, no.

[Frank] (23:22 - 23:33)

Oh, how am I going to explain that? And then another one. I don't know what happened.

It was in the wall and the whole chunk of a meter square fell off the wall. Oh, great. And it's not an easy thing to fix.

[Amelia] (23:34 - 23:34)

No.

[Frank] (23:34 - 23:35)

Really hard.

[Amelia](23:35 - 23:38)

No, that's, that's not fun. Don't recommend Lathen Plaster.

[Frank] (23:38 - 23:56)

No, but sometimes you can strip the whole building to its bones, re-insulate, you know, and then put your 10mm plaster sheet over the top. Over the top will remove everything, remove every nail. 

[Amelia]

Oh, that's a big job.

[Frank]

Yeah, I've seen other guys get big angle grinders and just cut and clean off flush.

[Amelia] (23:56 - 23:56)

Wow.

[Frank] (23:57 - 24:22)

Yeah, that's hardcore renovating. When you get down to the bare bones of the building and then you can fully insulate it, seal it all up properly, get good heating in there, upgrade a lot of stuff. And it looks Mickey Mouse inside.

I've seen a few of those. And so from outside, they still look, you know, post-war or, you know, you're arching from your 40s to your 60s and go outside. I don't know, it's charming.

It looks nice. You go inside and it's just magnificent.

[Amelia] (24:23 - 24:42)

I think the important thing to understand too is if you're going down that path of renovating, you do have to realise where your limitations are and what you can do yourself and what maybe you should leave to a professional. Because I feel like you can lose so much money if you stuff something up.

[Frank] (24:42 - 24:45)

But to be fair, I also believe you've got to have a crack.

[Amelia] (24:46 - 24:47)

I don't disagree with you there.

[Frank] (24:47 - 25:06)

You can always get a professional to come and fix it up and they can have a giggle and whatnot. I've had to do the bit of, you know, the shame of getting that done because I stuffed that up. It's what you do.

But I think you've got to be not scared to make a mistake. It's all right. I think the biggest thing you've got to do is plan what you want to do.

Do one room at a time.

[Amelia] (25:06 - 25:06)

Yeah.

[Frank] (25:06 - 25:08)

Don't do the whole house.

[Amelia] (25:08 - 25:08)

Yes.

[Frank] (25:08 - 25:11)

Or, I'll quickly go start on this. Don't do it.

[Amelia] (25:12 - 25:13)

Plan it properly.

[Frank] (25:13 - 25:14)

Finish it.

[Amelia] (25:14 - 25:15)

One at a time.

[Frank] (25:15 - 25:17)

Bathroom first. Every time.

[Amelia] (25:17 - 25:19)

We did our kitchen first, I think.

[Frank] (25:19 - 25:23)

Yeah, we did too, but in hindsight, we should have done the bathroom.

[Amelia] (25:23 - 25:28)

Yeah. Nick wanted to do the bathroom first and I got him to change his mind and we did.

[Frank] (25:28 - 25:29)

Of course you did.

[Amelia] (25:29 - 25:45)

We did the kitchen first. But to be fair, we did have a backup bathroom. Oh, that's all right.

So we had two bathrooms. So it wasn't too bad when one, because the upstairs one decided the tiles would start falling off in the shower.

[Frank] (25:45 - 25:46)

Didn't like it.

[Amelia] (25:46 - 25:51)

Yeah. I tried to, they had a few patch jobs before we decided they were too far gone.

[Frank] (25:51 - 26:12)

Yeah, exactly. And that gets to, yeah, you get to that point. You try and do that for as long as you can, because you've got to stick to a plan.

Same when you do stuff outside. You're building a deck, a veranda, a pergola, a shed, patio, fire pit, whatever you want to do. It's just to patch by, have a good plan going forward and then just do piece by piece so you can budget it.

You've got the money, you've got the materials, just nail that thing.

[Amelia] (26:13 - 26:13)

Yeah, exactly.

[Frank] (26:14 - 26:19)

And I think we all fail at that. Sometimes we get a little bit excited and go berserk and go, oh crap, you know.

[Amelia] (26:20 - 26:20)

Run out of money.

[Frank] (26:20 - 26:24)

Run out of money. Yeah. Yep.

So good planning.

[Amelia] (26:24 - 26:27)

Good planning. That's probably a really good take home point.

[Frank] (26:28 - 27:03)

Yep. Good planning. And also people do amazing reno's with really good planning without going ridiculous on their budgets.

You know, you can do a nice job. Yep. Everyone can learn to paint.

[Amelia]

Okay. Yeah, that's true. It's hard.

[Frank]

Don't get me wrong, I reckon painting and there's, you know, the bit is YouTube. I learned so much of YouTube how to paint. And buy the good quality equipment and your patience and you watch those videos and you can get a very good finish.

[Amelia]

You can get a good finish. 

[Frank]

Yeah. Don't be a butcher and just slap shit on there and hope it all looks good eventually because it's all the base prep and everything too.

[Amelia] (27:04 - 27:10)

Yeah, exactly right. Yep. Any other take home points?

Ask your designer, I guess, if you need a permit.

[Frank] (27:11 - 27:12)

All I can say is have a crack.

[Amelia] (27:12 - 27:13)

Have a crack.

[Frank] (27:13 - 27:19)

Have a crack. Just do one room, do a small one, build up your confidence. Have a crack at this.

That's the takeaway.

[Amelia] (27:19 - 27:20)

You're right into it.

[Frank] (27:21 - 27:37)

I do. I believe you should have a go, you know, even if it's just painting, you know, I really do. And you appreciate it because it's yours and you can be proud of what you've done.

Even if it's not perfect, you learn from you. You get better and better every time. It's like everything in life.

You've got to have a crack.

[Amelia] (27:38 - 27:38)

Yep.

[Frank] (27:38 - 27:42)

Don't be scared and don't listen to the naysayers. Have a go.

[Amelia] (27:42 - 27:46)

All right, we might wrap it up there. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

[Frank] (27:47 - 27:48)

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (27:57 - 28:00)

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.