E110. Landscape design for your property with special guest Andrew Nicholson

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, Frank and Amelia diving into the world of landscape design with expert landscaper Andrew Nicholson. From passive solar planning to creating functional outdoor spaces, Andrew shares insights into how smart design can make your garden not only beautiful but practical all year round.

They explore the tricky balance of managing sunlight, wind, and shade, and the importance of choosing the right trees and plants, not just for aesthetics, but for long-term safety, bushfire protection, and maintenance and thermal comfort. Andrew also shares his thoughts on smaller lots, creative shading solutions, and how even compact spaces can be transformed into thriving, functional gardens.

Ever wondered how to combine play, entertaining, and edible gardening in one outdoor space? Andrew discusses veggie patches, herb gardens, and incorporating spaces that the whole family can enjoy, from trampolines to fire pitswhile still being mindful of design and safety.

They also touch on the challenges of landscaping after a build, understanding your space over time, and how to plan for what will really work in your lifestyle, not just what looks good on paper.

Whether you’re dreaming of a backyard oasis, curious about edible landscapes, or want tips to make the most of your outdoor space, this episode is packed with practical advice, clever design ideas, and inspiration to get you thinking differently about your garden.

Tune in to hear Andrew’s stories, surprising lessons, and expert tips that will help you approach your next landscaping project with confidence and maybe even a bit of fun!

And be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode! 

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E110. Landscape Design with Guest Andrew Nicholson 

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design Primetime podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective.

[Amelia] (0:27 - 0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:43)

Hi Amelia, how are you?

[Amelia] (0:44 - 0:50)

Pretty good, it's a nice sunny day, we've gotten rid of some of that awful windy, blowy, rainy weather we had last week.

[Frank] (0:51 - 0:55)

Yeah, I don't know if there's more coming, but it's pretty ordinary. We had a frost this morning in October.

[Amelia] (0:55 - 0:56)

Did we really? I didn't even notice.

[Frank] (0:56 - 0:57)

Oh, I did in Riverside, didn’t you? Yeah. 

[Amelia] (0:58 - 1:01)

Oh, that was the reason the cats were cuddling this morning.

[Frank] (1:02 - 1:05)

Yeah, yeah. 

[Amelia]

It was cold. 

[Frank]

Yeah, the car was snap frozen this morning.

[Amelia] (1:05 - 1:07)

We've got a special guest on today.

[Frank] (1:07 - 1:12)

We do, we have Andrew Nichols, landscaper extraordinaire. 

[Andrew]

Thanks for having me, it's good to be here.

[Amelia] (1:12 - 1:14)

We're going to be having a chat about landscaping.

[Frank] (1:14 - 2:24)

Yes. all aspects, all ideas, we'll see where that takes us. How did you get started in landscaping, Andrew? 

[Andrew]

Well, I'd always had an interest in being outdoors and being in nature and being in the garden. And I guess that started from an early age by spending time with my grandad in the garden, in the veggie patch in particular, growing food. I'd walk around behind him and I'd eat the beans or, you know, the carrots out of the garden, that sort of thing. So from a young age, I loved being outside, loved being in the garden.

And so when I grew up and I got to that college sort of age and I was wondering what I wanted to do for work, I knew it was something outside. And there was a family friend who was a landscaper. And so I went and approached him and asked for a job as some experience and got started and went from there.

So, yeah, and I continued on. 

[Frank]

It's a pretty physically demanding job. 

[Andrew]

It is, yeah, very physically demanding. Although over the years, I've noticed even since I did my apprenticeship nearly 20 years ago, it's become a lot less demanding on the body. Like we've got more access to machinery, different types of gear. So I think when we first started, there was a lot more, you know, hand digging, you know, barrow, shovels, that sort of thing. Whereas, you know, there's a lot more access to excavators.

[Frank] (2:24 - 2:25)

And better machines.

[Andrew] (2:25 - 3:28)

Better machines, yeah. 

[Frank]

It doesn't cost a fortune. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. So it is hard on your body, but there are, you know, some parts of the job that are relatively easy. Just sitting in a machine and scraping back soil. So what's the most pleasurable part of doing what you do?

I think it's seeing the transformation from beginning to end and seeing the joy I think that that brings to the clients as well. Often we'll get to a job and the clients are so happy to see us because their garden's been a mess for however long and they're just excited to see something happen. And it's really just that transformation process of having a blank canvas and being able to create something.

And seeing that come to fruition, I really enjoy that. And you look back at the end of the job and you're like, wow, you know, in a week we've achieved that. We've got a lawn area there now.

Didn't have anything there before. We've got trees in. It's just really rewarding, I think.

[Frank]

Yeah. Because you can make a massive difference. 

[Andrew]

Huge difference in a short time as well. Some jobs take longer than others, but yeah.

[Andrew] (3:28 - 4:09)

For sure. Depending on what the demands are, aren't they? So when it comes to landscaping design, we spoke about this earlier. Whether you get a landscape architect or you get someone like yourself who will just talk about the spaces, depending on the level of work, I suppose, and what the homeowner wants.

[Andrew]

Yep. 

[Frank]

So you can go to landscape architect, get it all designed up beautifully, no different to when you get your house designed or renovations, extensions.

You get the same with your yard and you're looking at specific outdoor spaces that you want to use. You might have ideas for kids, veggie patches, garden shed, pool, spa, outdoor entertainment.

[Amelia] (4:09 - 4:10)

You talked about, yeah, fire pit areas.

[Frank] (4:10 - 4:11)

Fire pit areas.

[Amelia] (4:11 - 4:11)

Yeah.

[Frank] (4:11 - 8:48)

It could be the entry to the home to actually transform how the street presents, front fences, entry gates, all that type of stuff. So you can work out with the architect. But also you can do the next level of, I suppose, just dealing with the visual space, the spatial awareness on the site.

And that's what we spoke about where you can help clients and homeowners. Well, how do you want to use this space? Paths, gardens, recommendations. You can do that on site. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. Well, I think that's a big thing about landscape is, first of all, talking to the client about what their goals are with their garden.

Do they want to be out there all the time? Do they want to be away on the weekend and not do anything in their garden? Do they want to be entertaining and doing things?

And asking those sorts of questions goes a long way to help you formulate how you're going to go about your build as well as your garden, and how that's going to interrelate to your house. So every job's different. There's going to be some aspects of a garden that somebody's not going to need from one place to another.

So it's really just listening to your client and trying to see what they want to get out of their garden, how they want to live. Now, you can do that through a landscape architect, or you could do that through just talking to a landscaper. Right at the start is probably preferable because you probably get a better outcome.

You look at accessibility to the site and whether you're actually able to do that job that they want to do, be able to put that pool in, or are we going to lose access and not going to be able to do that later? 

[Frank]

Is it going to need retaining walls? 

[Andrew]

That's right.

[Frank]

Other structures, do you need permits for some of this stuff? 

[Andrew]

Yeah, and are you going to be able to get machines into site once the house is built to be able to build those retaining walls? That's a really big one.

Trying to get the best outcome, you need to have a plan or a relative plan from the start as to how you want to tackle it so that you don't snooker yourself later on so that you can't get those jobs done. 

[Frank]

Or the cost goes through the roof because it's just manual labour. 

[Andrew]

That's right, yeah.

[Andrew]

So what do you think, from your perspective, the biggest missed opportunities? So let's consider you've got new builds and you've got existing. 

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Frank]

So let's start with new builds. Where do you think the biggest missed opportunities are? 

[Andrew]

I think it's probably that correlation between your kitchen, dining, living area and entertaining outside.

Sometimes that's not always well considered or thought through with a landscaper. So do you want to be having large groups of people around and entertaining outside for barbecues and things like that? Sometimes the space inside the kitchen area out onto the deck and then into the yard, there's opportunities missed to extend your yard and make that bigger to be able to house more people for large gatherings.

For some people that's really important. You think about birthday parties, special occasions, things like that. Sometimes they're just not able to do that or do it as comfortably as what they could have done if they'd thought about how are we going to be able to get this many people out into the yard?

And in the nicer months where it's good weather, do we have access to be able to get... 

[Frank]

But also from the house. 

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Frank]

You know, has the doors been designed to open up? 

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's right. 

[Frank]

You know, choosing the right doors and windows from the building design into that space.

And we've done plenty of renos, and we'll talk about existing houses now, that we've pulled out walls to get decent doors and windows first to capture the sunlight but also to get access to that. So when you're looking at existing homes and existing sites, where do you think the biggest missed opportunities on existing are? Because it's no different from a building design perspective where you've got much greater restrictions.

No different with landscaping, you've got greater restrictions. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. I guess you're governed by what's already there, aren't you?

[Frank]

Yeah. 

[Andrew]

So you've got a framework to work with. So sometimes there's options that are already just blocked out.

You can't do it. So, for example, I think it could be if you've got a two-storey place and you'd really like to have that entertaining coming off sort of a deck area into your yard, well, you can't really do that or bring food down the deck and the stairs easily because you're on a two-storey sort of place. Because it's been designed that way.

Whereas you might have your bedrooms and other areas downstairs where it would have been better to have maybe some of your entertaining down there to be able to come out and do that. 

[Frank]

They might have designed it for the view because it's upstairs.

[Andrew] (8:48 - 8:48)

That's right.

[Frank] (8:48 - 9:36)

So it's a compromise on how you want to operate. 

[Andrew]

But then it's also an opportunity for, say, if they're having the existing build extended or renovated, to be able to build some decking areas around the house to be able to maybe have some of the entertaining up there. 

[Frank]

So decks and stairs, though, touching on that, they're like the pathway to the backyard.

[Andrew]

That's right. 

[Frank]

And also potentially whatever features that you may want in the backyard, you just might want to have a play area. It could be backyard cricket, it could be the garden, it could be a pool, it could be a spa, it could be an outdoor gym.

Whatever the heck it is, it's the highway out from the house into that space. And we're talking about backyards because a lot of that stuff is focused on the backyards. Because it's an extension of the house.

[Amelia] (9:36 - 9:56)

It's that transition, I think. Finding that right transition, that right path or that right deck from wherever you're coming from, whether it's a back deck or a big alfresco area or whatever it is. I think it's that connection, finding the connection between those spaces and finding that right transition.

[Andrew] (9:56 - 12:24)

And thinking as well about how often you're going to use those connective spaces. Sometimes it's an area down the side of the house and you might put some gravel down with some pavers in between. That's not probably ideal if you're going to be using that a lot and you kick the pebbles around and you can get a bit of a mess.

You're better off with just a plain hard surface like concrete or paving if it's going to be a thoroughfare. Some of those little things need to be considered as well. How often am I going to be using this space or getting from the inside to outside.

[Frank]

I suppose it comes down to the serviceability you touched on before about talking to the homeowner. How do you want to use this space? You mentioned you want to be away on the weekends.

That means you want to have super low maintenance. Depending on the size and the plantings I would suggest, then you'd consider do you actually put grass down or do you put artificial, depending on the level of maintenance that you want and the size, but also do you have pets? 

[Andrew]

Yes, yes. There's a few things to weigh up there. Often maintaining a lawn is probably one of the easiest things in terms of a garden. It doesn't take a lot of work.

It's just running the mower around regularly. If you're somebody that wants to be going away regularly of a weekend, you don't have time to be doing that. Maybe from the start when you're designing your house you need to think about, well, am I going to be able to afford to pay a gardener to come in regularly to be able to maintain this and mow the lawn so I don't have to do that.

Do I still want some level of maintenance in my yard but not have to do it? Some people opt to have very high maintenance gardens and get people in to regularly maintain it. 

[Frank]

They want a specific look.

[Andrew]

Yes, they want a specific look. Other people just want super low maintenance, concrete, artificial grass, very few plants or just some pebbles around the yard. That's okay. We can do that for people. 

[Frank]

It comes down to how they want to live there, doesn't it? 

[Andrew]

Yes, it is. In terms of garden space allowance, one of the misconceptions I think around that is that people think, oh, it's more garden, it's more work to look after. I think a good landscaper will be able to recommend plants that are not just low maintenance but things that aren't going to get too big. You're not going to have to be… 

[Frank]

Getting an arborist in. 

[Andrew]

Yes, like planting them under power lines and things like that and spending your weekends…

[Amelia] (12:25 - 12:26)

Trimming them.

[Frank] (12:27 - 14:56)

Or the mistake that we made. I've had to get an arborist in because we planted a banksia that's gone out of control and it's right on the boundary and we have to put a fence in there. 

[Andrew]

Oh, right.

[Frank]

This thing's massive. We go, oh, this is terrible. It's such a beautiful tree.

[Andrew]

That's such a shame when you see a beautiful tree but it's in the wrong spot. It's in the wrong spot. It's breaking my heart.

You see these trees that have been hacked up on nature strips because they've got to get around the power lines. 

[Frank]

Abbott Street, East Launceston, it's a classic for that, isn't it? 

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. I close my eyes. But that's what it is. 

[Frank]

Where do you think some of the biggest mistakes, when people do it themselves, just landscape, do stuff, where do you think the biggest mistakes are made by the average Joe Bloggs?

[Andrew]

There's a few, I'd say. Probably not allowing enough depth of topsoil is a basic one, like in your garden beds. Often after a build, there'll be base gravel that's been spread around on site during the build so that the builders can keep their boots clean and that sort of thing.

And so sometimes that doesn't really get dug back out again where there needs to be garden beds. So people just sort of think, oh, yeah, I'll put a bit of topsoil there and put some plants in there and it'll be right. But little do they know, like a year or two later, their plants aren't growing or they've died because the roots…

[Frank]

Can't get through the gravel. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, the roots. 

[Frank]

They're just hitting gravel.

[Andrew]

They don't have enough good topsoil. So there's basic horticultural understanding like that that people probably don't consider. The other thing would be, well, you have that same issue with lawn spaces, not allowing enough good topsoil or even having topsoil with some compost mixed through it so it's got a bit more nutrients and it's got a bit more permeability for drainage, that sort of thing.

Yeah, and also not mulching enough. If people aren't mulching enough, you're going to get those weeds come through quickly. You're going to have plants that are dying because you're not keeping the moisture in through the summer.

[Frank]

And also keeping the water up when they're first planted. 

[Andrew]

That's right, yeah. Most plants will survive pretty well if you really water them in initially and then sort of a week or two afterwards.

And also, in terms of planting, probably the best time is around autumn so that you've got a chance for those plants to be getting their roots down over winter and then into spring. So when they hit summertime, they're not struggling with a shallow root system in the heat of summer. In saying that, you can plant all year round, but you just need to make sure that you're giving the correct amount of water for your plants, yeah.

[Amelia] (14:57 - 15:30)

What about overcrowding? I feel like that's something that could be a thing. I know myself, I'm not very experienced when it comes to trees, shrubbery, those sort of things.

Knowing the distances to plant things apart. I know the house we're in at the moment was owned by an elderly couple that maintained it beautifully, but there was just so many plants. We found an apricot tree that we didn't even know we had for the first few years because there's just so many other trees and plants around it. So we've had to pull out quite a lot.

[Andrew] (15:30 - 16:14)

Yeah, it's a good point that you make. Just the other day, I was on a job where the client had chosen to do the planting out, which is fine. We'll often get a garden bed space ready and they're happy to do the planting out.

And people have different ideas about how they want their garden to look and how tightly they want their plants put in. But in this case, the plants were probably put in way too close. So what you need to do is just look at the label and trust what the label says on the plant.

So when you're planting out, if it says this tree can get to five metres by five metres and you don't want other plants crowding into that tree or that plant, then give it the correct space allowance. Now, what that will mean is that your garden initially looks very bare.

[Amelia] (16:15 - 16:15)

Yes.

[Andrew] (16:15 - 16:57)

Which is fine if you're happy to wait, but you just have to be patient. Now, if you want it to look more full to start with, you can plant as many plants as you like and just pull them out over time and choose which ones survive and do well. But it's kind of a waste of money in a way, I think.

So I think just following the label and doing what it says. You can't go too far wrong. And if it says that the plant needs well-drained soil, make sure that there's good soil there.

[Frank]

But it's understanding what is well-drained, isn't it? 

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. So don't dig a hole in the clay and cause a bucket and pooling effect and put your plant in there because water's going to fill up.

[Frank] (16:57 – 17:06)

Guilty of that. Just killed a few around my place. Yeah. So that brings an interesting point.

Good drainage. 

[Andrew] (17:06 – 17:47)

Yeah, drainage is very important in your landscape. You don't want your plants sitting with wet roots.

There's some plants and trees that will do better with wet around their roots, but in general you want trees to be able to get their roots down and not just be sitting in wet all the time. So if you're planting... A good example is if you're planting on a clay bank.

A lot of plants will survive quite well in clay on a bank because there's runoff. Where people go wrong is they dig a deep hole and so they create this pooling effect like a bucket and they put their plant in that hole and water just fills up that hole and it can't escape. Even though you've put good soil in there, the water just seeps down.

[Frank]

So you’re better off digging a trench? 

[Andrew]

Digging a trench so you've got like a little outlet so that as it fills up, it goes away. Or try and build it up a little bit over the clay.

Like mattock it up a bit, put a bit of gypsum in there which helps break up the clay and then put some topsoil over the topsoil. 

[Frank]

I went through so much gypsum at my place. So much clay. It was terrible. It was heavy clay, but I got someone in to choose all the plants to suit the clay. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, OK.

[Frank]

And the majority of those survived and they're going well. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. So the other thing I would say in terms of landscaping and drainage is make sure that you've got appropriate drains put in.

So there's a few different main types of drainage aspects that you look at when you're landscaping. One is your ag drains. So that takes away all your seepage water that's just seeping through the ground.

And that's usually hooked into the stormwater system via a silt trap pit. The other way is purely by putting like a big surface pit in your lawn space or in your garden bed so that when those big heavy downpours come, water's being able to escape quickly and so it's not running over the edge of your garden bed and washing away mulch and damaging plants and things. Another way is by using swale drains to be able to direct water and that's usually done on larger rural sort of properties.

So if you have a big downpour, water's being able to be directed away from key areas. 

[Frank]

In saying that on our building drawings, we put a lot of drainage in.

It's around the house and that includes swale drains to pits and we put that on there and people say we're overdoing it but I've always been of the philosophy too much drainage is never enough because now the rainfall intensity has changed. Definitely in Tasmania we've noticed it and when you get some of these really intense downpours and if you don't have the proper drainage, it's going to take everything and from our point, it damages the house. So we're looking at pure protection from the house and there are clear guidelines that we have to follow but that drainage then also assists with the landscaping.

It's a two-fold thing. Protect the house, protect the landscaping and also you go outside, you're not walking up the ankle full of water. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's very important and I think that's a good consideration when you're doing your landscape and I can see why you have to do that. You definitely don't want water in a big rain event coming up and going into your house. 

[Frank]

Well, vice versa if a neighbouring property and I've had this actually happen to me when I built my first home, we were on the side of a hill and the neighbouring properties didn't have their stormwater sorted at the time.

It all came tearing down over my rock retaining wall, underneath my deck, pushed all the soil over the top of my, I had all this 1.2 metre high concrete block wall at the base of my house. It pushed the clay and the mud over the free-draining material and the water went straight over the retaining wall into my house, twice. 

[Andrew]

Oh, okay.

[Frank]

And then I had a word with the neighbours and then we're out there, we're digging drains and everything and we solved the problem. Yeah. But it was a bit of a clean up.

[Andrew]

Hopefully you get a good neighbour to deal with. 

[Frank]

Yeah, and they were fine, they were very understanding. They were horrified actually.

But anyway, they were cool, so we were able to do that. But this is also being a good neighbour. Yeah.

Even under law, you're supposed to control all your stormwater on site but on big rain events you can't sometimes. Yeah. But that's why drainage is really important, get as much as possible in.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's right. And people I don't think are as aware of that until they're in a situation like that. Like your neighbour might not even know.

[Frank]

No, but what's interesting, that situation can change over time where a neighbour does landscaping works, put extra driveways in or turning areas in the back of a house. I had to go visit a house recently and that was the exact same case where they've never had a problem with water within their gardens. Now they do. And the only thing they can think of, the neighbour did massive works in the back of their yard. Now, not saying they did the wrong thing or anything, it's changed the water direction, water courses, subsurface drains, everything. And then now you've got to deal with it because it's coming to your property.

But how do you prove it? You're better off just diving in and trying to solve the problem. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, so sometimes what you do on one property definitely can affect the other and it is always good practice to control your water on site as best as possible and get rid of that.

And also have a chat to your neighbour when you're starting to undertake some works and maybe do some landscaping. Say, hey, we're going to have some landscaping done. We're going to do our best while we're doing it to be able to make sure that there's no silt runoff.

So have your silt traps all... 

[Frank]

And we're in the valley here, in the Tamar Valley, and it sure goes downhill, doesn't it? 

[Andrew]

It does, yeah.

[Frank]

It's gobsmacking where it all accumulates and just goes tearing into people's backyards, front yards, down the driveways. 

[Andrew]

It's amazing the power water can have when there's a lot of it in one go. 

[Frank]

Oh, yeah, massive.

[Andrew]

I've seen some pretty big disasters, actually.’

[Frank]

Yeah, yeah, especially in Hobart. About four years ago, we had a massive 113-year storm. It took out backs of houses, retainers, cars. It was insane. We were involved in a lot of remedial works with insurance companies.

[Andrew]

Was that the one down the side of Mount Wellington, like in West Hobart? I think I saw some of that on the news. 

[Frank]

Yeah, the damage was next level.

And there's not a lot you can do about that because that's just an event and there's no drainage that's going to take care of that. 

So do you ever design gardens to support the local wildlife? 

[Andrew]

I do, yeah. It's usually more of a request from the client that we do that for. For example, we've done lots of gardens before where people love birds and they're like, we just want to have as many birds in our garden as possible. We love seeing them come in.

So we all plant a lot of natives to support that. A consideration as well when you're trying to attract native birds into your garden is make sure a lot of those smaller native birds, like your honey eaters and things like that, have protection from your larger, bully sort of birds, like your wattle birds and your butcher birds, so that they can escape. So you do that by planting some really dense foliage plants, even your spiky grevilleas, which also get a really nice flower on them for feeding.

And we try and plant different heights of plants as well. So not just all ground colours or medium-sized shrubs. They need a bit of height so birds can get perspective and fly around and have areas to nest.

[Frank] (24:23 - 24:24)

I never considered that.

[Frank] (24:25 - 29:02)

Yeah. I also consider my local cute furry animal as well because we have paddy melons in the backyard and we love seeing them there. I know a lot of people don't, but we actually love seeing wallabies and paddy melons in the backyard.

[Andrew]

Yeah, so we have a mix of responses from people. A lot of the time it's trying to keep those animals out. But sometimes, like yourself, people love to see the paddy melons.

They love to see the rabbits. And so it's just being thoughtful about what you plant that you're not going to be too precious about what's going to get eaten because they will chew just about everything. 

[Frank]

Yeah, well, I learned that. But we knew that, so we actually ended up putting good protection around a lot of the plants until they were mature enough and they couldn't do the damage. 

[Andrew]

That's right, yeah. Especially in those early formative years, you need to protect your plants so that they can get up and they can withstand a bit of chewing.

[Frank]

Yeah, exactly. But it's nice to be able to interact with them. 

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah, it's fantastic to be able to sit out on your deck and have a cuppa and see wallaby or rabbits or even deer.

Some properties have had deer come into the yards and they can do a lot of mess. 

[Frank]

Yeah, there's a few around too, isn't there? It's a bit epidemic in Tasmania.

How do you approach each site? I know for us as building designers, we have clients' wants and needs for their property and how they want to do the house, whether it's an extension or new. For you, how do you go into a site when you're looking at it?

Because we look at it with our own eyes. You would look at it with your own eyes from a landscaping point of view. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, I suppose it's a similar approach to what a building designer would do with a client.

You ask questions about how they want to live and interact with their garden space. What are their goals? How do they want to live in their garden?

The more information you can get from a client, the easier it's going to be for you to be able to design that space for them and to be able to give them what they want. Sometimes what they ask for is not always appropriate or practical, so you've got to give them a bit of guidelines, educate them a bit about what's doable, what's achievable. Sometimes we go into sites that are just so steep and people want to be able to create flat areas.

I say, well, we can do that for you, but it's going to cost a lot of money. 

[Frank]

Retailing walls are expensive. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, so you've got to have a well-rounded approach, I think, when you look at a site.

We try not to go in with too many preconceived ideas. Obviously, I can go in and I can look at a site and I think, well, this is what I would do if it was my place, but that's not always going to be conducive to what a client wants because they're going to have different needs, different expectations around what they want out of their garden. Sometimes people are just happy to say, well, what would you do if it was your place, Andrew?

And I'm like, well, I'd do this, this, and this, and they're like, okay, well, you're the expert, you do that. Some people are very flexible in that regard and happy for us to have free reign and do whatever we think, but always make sure I communicate as best as possible about what it's going to look like when it's finished and costs and that sort of thing. 

[Frank]

Materials.

[Andrew]

Yep. 

[Frank]

Okay, we've spoken about retaining walls and there's lots and lots of types of retaining walls. Maybe you want to run through a number of different retaining walls that people could consider.

[Andrew]

Yeah, so you've got your typical, more structural walls, like core-filled block retaining walls that you're required to have once you get up over a certain height and you'll have steel tied into that, into a footing as well, and then you'll have backfill behind that with drainage. 

[Frank]

You've also got the decorative blocks. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, you've got decorative blocks.

[Frank]

Those look a lot nicer than the concrete grey blocks. 

[Andrew]

That's right, yeah. So you've got, you know, some blocks will have even recycled glass and things like that.

[Frank]

Yeah, we're very fortunate here with that product, aren't we? 

[Andrew]

We are, yeah. 

[Frank]

So that's reinforced concrete block or concrete derivative reinforced concrete wall.

[Andrew]

Yep, and some can just be stacked, you know, one on top of the other and just infilled with drainage metal. Others have to be reinforced with actual concrete put inside. The other way, I mean, there's lots of ways, to do it out of a different material would be like a sleeper retaining wall.

So you put some upright posts in, screw some horizontals to the back of those, put a capper on top, make sure that you have your drainage metal in behind there with your ag drain because at the end of the day, what's going to destroy a wall is the back pressure on it.

[Frank] (29:02 - 29:03)

Yeah, the water.

[Andrew] (29:03 - 32:45)

Yeah, the water. Yeah, so making sure you have enough drainage in your yard, that's the most critical thing behind a retaining wall. One of the ways we like to retain a lot of the time, and often it's the most quickest and effective way, is to be able to place boulders in a garden.

We're very fortunate in Launceston to have access to boulders from surrounding farms and things like that. Often people want to get rid of them or they're digging out of a house site and they need to get rid of them or reuse them somewhere. So we use a lot of boulders to create retaining spaces.

The benefit of that is you don't have to necessarily put a footing in for that. You can just grab them with the excavator, put them in place, and you've already built. Within half an hour you can build 10, 15 metres of wall.

[Frank]

And it looks quite – natural isn't the right word, but earthy. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, earthy, organic. I mean, some people are going to like that look and other people aren't.

So if you go for a more modern sort of look with your house, some people opt just to go for the retaining wall block sort of look. Other people can get quite creative and mix it in so that they'll have more of an earthy sort of backyard using boulders. And that can actually complement the house like a modern-looking house if it's done well.

But the cheapest way to retain a space is actually not to retain it at all. It would be to just grow some ground covers or some grasses on a steep bank and try and lock in that bank so that you're not getting wash off from – 

[Frank]

Yeah, for sure. 

[Andrew]

From rain and that sort of thing. So if people are on a budget, there are options for them to be able to retain areas without breaking your budget. But you are going to compromise on the amount of flat space that you can create if you go down that track, and also maintaining that slope as well. 

[Frank]

Yeah, sure. What other materials in the landscaping space do you like using? 

[Andrew]

So a lot of natural stone for pavers. We like using a lot of rust steel for our garden edging. 

[Frank]

I've noticed that's become a lot more popular. 

[Andrew]

Very popular, yeah. 

[Frank]

Yeah, compared to the old treated pine.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's sort of all we had when we first started probably 20-odd years ago. There's a lot of that treated pine sort of going in for edging and things. We use a lot of pavers for mowing strips.

It's one of my favourite and most practical edges, I would say. Just being able to run your mower wheel along paved edge is great to define your garden borders. So that lawn and that garden space.

[Frank]

It's just quick and easy. 

[Andrew]

Quick and easy. Steel edge looks great, but you still have to run a brush cutter around there.

[Frank]

Trim it up. 

[Andrew]

Maybe not every time, but every second or third mow you probably still have to. So we use a lot of…

[Frank]

Curbing used to be popular a few years ago as well. 

[Andrew]

Probably don't see as much of that now. And that's usually done by a specialist installer. That's not necessarily something that every landscaper would do or be able to do. You need special moulding machines and things for that. But we have organised that with other contractors before on jobs and helped to supply that.

[Frank]

What about arbors and pergolas and things like that? You guys build those as well? 

[Andrew]

Yeah, we do.

So we just built one a few months ago, and the client's going to plant out a wisteria to be able to go over that. And we've got a fire pit under there that we created as well, or just out from that. So it's just going to help define that space and give it a sense of an area where they're able to sit under and have a bit of a backdrop.

So, yeah, we do arbors for people. Not all the time. Sometimes they'll engage a builder to do that.

It depends how involved they want that to be, I guess. 

[Frank]

Yep, fair enough.

[Amelia] (32:45 - 33:00)

What about things that people might forget in terms of being functional? Like you've mentioned about forgetting bins and those sort of things, and making places for those. Do some of those things maybe sometimes get forgotten?

[Andrew] (33:00 - 34:32)

Definitely. The number of times we're on a job and we're doing the landscape and clients just have their bins just placed next to the fence somewhere or in the middle of their driveway or somewhere that's just not very practical, like they haven't thought about or thought through, okay, where's my bin storage space going to be and how do I get out of the house easily to be able to chuck my waste in there? That's probably one of the most common things that we notice because you don't really want to have to have your bins in your garage and have any smells and that sort of thing.

So trying to think about that, okay, those more practical everyday matters are really important. And that comes back to thinking about how am I going to live in the house and connect to my outdoor spaces and do these sorts of everyday tasks? Another thing I think I would say is probably the clothesline and how that relates to the laundry and coming outside.

And we have differing opinions and I wouldn't say arguments with clients, but we often get asked to put a clothesline that's out of sight, out of mind, but it's in shade all day. 

[Frank]

Don't work too good. 

[Andrew]

No, it doesn't really work.

I mean, growing up, we just had the old hills hoist in the backyard, we'd jump on it and swing around. I'm sure you guys did as well. We'd jump out our trampoline right next to it and we'd jump on there and spin around.

And it was something that was seen and it wasn't thought of as like an detraction in terms of aesthetics for the yard. 

[Frank]

You know what wasn't thought of? The weight of kids hanging off of it.

[Andrew]

Well, I think they were back then. 

[Frank]

The new ones are terrible.

[Amelia] (34:32 - 34:34)

Oh, yeah, you wouldn't do it on a new one.

[Frank] (34:34 - 35:20)

I remember my mate and I broke their family clothesline. 

[Andrew]

You broke it? 

[Frank]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Oh, dear. 

[Frank]

Yeah, me and my mate, yeah. We weren't real popular.

[Andrew]

Yeah, so I think, yeah, probably clotheslines is one. Where are you going to put that? Do I want like a hills hoist, traditional one that spins around, or am I happy with a fold-out clothesline on the side of the house and is it going to get enough sun?

And is that close to where my laundry is situated in the house? 

[Frank]

Also, alfrescos are pretty handy for that. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, we see a lot of, yeah, yeah.

Undercover, still get the breeze through there. That's right, yeah. And some people are quite happy to be able to hang the washing up and do that.

Other people really want it outside.

[Frank] (35:20 - 35:22)

Yes, true, true, true.

[Andrew] (35:22 - 35:49)

I mean, for me, it doesn't really bother me. It's just a practical, everyday thing. So I think, well, wherever it's going to dry best and get the job done, it's not like you're going to have it out there all the time, or you're probably not going to have it, or you're washing hanging out while you're entertaining and having a barbecue with all your friends.

[Frank]

You see your jocks hanging out there. The best look. But that's where you get it cleaned up first. Yeah. That's why I love the fold-away clotheslines. They can disappear.

They can, yeah. Quite easy to use.

[Amelia] (35:49 - 36:04)

What about improving sort of thermal comfort and those sort of things within a house? Because that's something, as building designers, that we really focus on here. Is that something that you can kind of accommodate the planting and, you know, shading around the house?

[Andrew] (36:05 - 38:14)

Yeah, it is. I think often you'll get that harsh afternoon western sort of sun streaming in to make areas of the house really, really hot. And that's often a time of the day that you might not necessarily need the sun.

You want to capture all your early morning sun. And so sometimes we'll plant trees, often deciduous trees, so that you're not shading out that space over winter. But planting deciduous trees that are going to give a bit of shade and protection to the house during those harsh summer months while the sun's really beating down.

[Frank]

There was a big thing back in the 80s and 90s where passive solar houses and then building the pergola or the wisteria or deciduous trees, which took forever to grow. And it's not considered anywhere near as much as it used to. 

[Andrew]

Probably not.

[Frank]

And maybe that comes down to lot sizes. Our houses are much bigger than what they used to be. There's a whole bunch of considerations.

But like you say, the westerly sun, when it comes in summer, man, that heats up the house. 

[Andrew]

It does, yeah, which you want in the wintertime. But in summer it can be a bit unbearable.

[Frank]

Yeah, a bit ordinary. 

[Andrew]

So you've got to be thoughtful about, you know, have we allowed enough garden space to be able to plant a tree there, maybe to be able to have some protection. 

[Frank]

But can you actually plant the tree there? It could be an easement there. 

[Andrew]

It could be. 

[Frank]

And you shouldn't be planting trees over pipes.

[Andrew]

No, that's right. So, yeah, there's a few different things to consider. 

[Frank]

But good landscape design with passive solar design house works amazingly well when done properly. But you need a reasonable amount of space to do it, I feel. So you're not restricted. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, and that also comes around to, like you mentioned earlier about the lot size.

Lot sizes are becoming much smaller and our houses are becoming bigger on those lot sizes. So it does minimise the amount of garden space that you have. So maybe it's like more of an awning or something that you need to be able to attach to your house to be able to create that shade rather than go for a tree option or a trellis to be able to trail a plant up that's going to be more compact rather than a tree that's going to get up and spread.

So there's different options that you can use.

[Frank] (38:14 - 38:38)

And timeframes. Yeah. There's a bit of timeframe involved and then you've got a bit of maintenance to go with that as well so it performs correctly. Yeah.

It's also planting appropriate trees and shrubs too, isn't it? I remember my very first house, as I said, it was in East Launceston and neighbouring property planted two trees for their twins. 

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Frank]

These were gum trees. 

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Amelia] (38:38 - 38:39)

Oh, they would grow huge.

[Frank] (38:39 - 39:22)

And not normal gum trees. These were like straight as a die and they had a trunk on them that was big, 21 years old. I remember I he was telling me the kids are 21 now.

And these things are huge. In the middle of suburbia, and these things were ginormous, straight up, not all spindly and stuff. I don't know what species they were, but that cost them a lot of money to get them down.

[Andrew]

Yes, it would. 

[Frank]

Because they were tucked in behind, you couldn't get machines into the backyard, so they had to get specialists in. And yeah, it was pretty daunting having those hanging over your house.

[Andrew]

I reckon, yeah, but they've probably done the right thing taking that down now. The last thing you want is, you know, in a big storm for a tree to go through your house or a neighbour's house and do damage to your property. 

[Frank]

And it does.

[Andrew]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

We just had it recently, didn't we?

[Amelia] (39:22 - 39:26)

Well, look at the wind we've had the past week. 100 kilometre winds.

[Frank] (39:27 - 42:48)

Yep, and there's been a lot of damage done. And trees are those things. And it's that appropriate planting, isn't it?

[Andrew]

It is, yeah. So really think about how big is this tree going to get or this plant going to get? Look at the labels, like I said earlier, when you're planting.

Is this going to be appropriate in 10, 20 years' time? And it can be really hard to visualise it. And sometimes, you know, I fall into the habit as well sometimes.

I go and I put a plant in and I put another one over there and I'm like, oh, it just looks too sparse. It's just not, you know, it just looks like I haven't put enough plants in. So you can very easily start dragging all your plants in and putting things too close to make things look more full.

But you really have to trust your instinct and what it says on the label about the habit of the plant and plan to be patient for the future and let that grow to maturity. So if it says it's going to be a 20-metre tree, don't be like, oh, that'll be somebody else's problem. That tree might get to 20 metres quicker than you think and it becomes your problem.

[Frank]

Yeah. But they do become a problem. 

[Andrew]

Oh, yes.

[Frank]

It's just choosing the right, but also the right type of tree with the root bowls that they have in them because they're not quite suitable because there's a thing of even certain shrubs and stuff, they'll affect the footings of your house or your neighbouring property, your neighbour's footings or their driveway, or their shed or whatever. You've got to consider that too because, man, I've seen some damage. Yeah.

[Andrew]

One of the ones that we see a lot of is wisterias. They have an amazing root system. They go in under houses and they damage footings and it's not a plant that you'd expect because it's just a trailing sort of vine.

It looks like a pretty innocent, pretty-looking thing. But those roots really do some damage and they're often planted close to houses because they're trying to create shade around some of those areas where you're going to get sunlight or make a feature. 

[Frank]

Or conifers. Remember, conifers put up against buildings? 

[Andrew]

Yes, way too close, yeah. 

[Frank]

Yep, and then break the backs of homes as well and footpaths and stuff.

It's quite devastating. So, again, it's just being smart on what you actually plant. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, don't plant too close to your paved pathways because it's going to lift pavements.

[Frank]

But also, from a building design perspective, we see a lot of people, whether it's a concrete slab or a timber floor, with a timber floor, there's vents and we need air flow through there. With a concrete slab, you have weep holes. And if they get covered up, the house doesn't perform properly.

And I've seen it in some cases with landscapers have built pavers to the same floor level as the house and they have slight fall away. Now, under the building code, you're not allowed to do that. 

[Andrew]

So they've gone over the weep holes?

[Frank]

They went over the weep holes. But in another part, they actually covered, they had like a cement sheet, like a James Hardy product, and they actually paved up to the sheeting at near floor level, just below. So that sheeting's going to fail over a period of time.

So when you do your paths, driveways, et cetera, they need to be at least 90mm or lower. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

From the house to protect your house.

[Andrew]

Yeah. You've got those heights that you're governed by and we always try and make sure that we're not covering up those things because, you know, we understand that...

[Frank] (42:49 - 42:51)

It doesn't always happen though. 

[Andrew]

No.

[Frank] (42:51 - 43:03)

And that's probably a takeaway for people, don't cover up the weep holes, don't cover up, you know, vents. Yeah. Or see that little plastic grill in the ground?

Don't cover that up. 

[Andrew]

Yes, we need to know where that is.

[Amelia] (43:06 - 43:20)

So what about if you have a property that has, say, a bushfire overlay, how do you approach landscape design for those sort of things? Because are you limited as to, you know, how far apart you can plant things or the amount?

[Andrew] (43:20 - 46:45)

Yeah, that's a good question. I think the way we approach it is just try and make sure that you have enough distance, first of all, around your house from the surrounding bushland. Which is already prescribed within the drawings.

[Frank]

Yeah, already prescribed. 

[Andrew]

So... And that might become just open green lawn space.You know, make sure that you have, you know, enough vehicle access around, like in the event that there is a bushfire. Make sure that you've got, you know, water tanks and things like that. Yeah, and that's all pretty mandatory with new builds now.

[Frank]

Yeah. With a plant species though, because there'll be some that will burn better than others. 

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Frank]

And that has to be considered. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. You're obviously not going to want to grow a whole heap of things that is going to go up in flames very easily or let your grass grow really long right next to your house.

There's laws around, you know, maintaining that and making sure that... Well, the whole thing has to be maintained. 

[Frank]

You know, it's expected that your property is well maintained in the event of a bushfire.

But also not over-planting. But it's also some of this will burn, some don't burn as well. Some will just get scorched and then not much chop afterwards.

But there's stuff that will go like a Roman candle. 

[Andrew]

Mm. Yeah, like a lot of your gum trees and that, they're going to go up pretty quick with all the oil in the leaves.

You don't want to be planting eucalypt trees right next to your house. 

[Frank]

Yeah. And also, it's just having the material...Also, depending on the type of mulch you have as well. See, grass has become a problem with bushfires and grass fires. So then under the maintenance, you've got to keep your grass nice and low, green.

[Andrew]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

You know, so there's less chance of fire tearing across it. 

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Frank]

Because, man, it can go fast. 

[Andrew]

Yes. 

[Frank]

What's been your favourite projects?

[Andrew]

Favourite projects? It's often, I think, when you've got a client that's really interested in their garden and works with you to achieve the result that they're after. I really enjoy working for people that have an interest in their garden.

But then also, it's nice when a client trusts you and gives you a bit of, you know, scope and free reign to be able to do what you think will look best and suit the site. So I really enjoy using natural materials. I like using a lot of boulders, rusty steel edging, natural stone pavers, things like that.

I think they've been some of the most enjoyable landscapes that I've done and also where we get to create entertaining spaces like fire pits and barbecue areas and things like that. 

[Frank]

Fire pits have become pretty popular. 

[Andrew]

Very popular now, yeah. It's a very quick and easy thing to be able to do for people and a lot of people, especially people who go away camping, they love sitting around a campfire and they want to be able to do that when they're home as well. So I think it's a great thing. We've got one at home and our girls just love going down there and we toast marshmallows together and have a great time and it also teaches them to be a bit fire safe as well, yeah.

One of the other things I really enjoy is creating play areas for kids in yards and putting in a trampoline for people. That's really rewarding to go back to a place sometimes, you know, four or six weeks later and do a follow-up with a client and see the kids jumping around on the trampoline and enjoying that space. Because the garden is there to be enjoyed and lived in and worked in and it's nice when you're creating a space for a family that you see that they're going to be able to create memories there, they're going to really enjoy and use that space.

[Frank]

Trampolines has been one of those things, hasn't it? It's a great toy resource, so a great space where they have friends over and muck around on the trampoline.

[Andrew] (46:45 - 46:46)

Yeah, that's right.

[Frank] (46:46 - 47:48)

Because I think we went through three, you know, over time because the sun deteriorates them. So then you've got to replace them and whatnot. Even the adults like having a go.

[Andrew]

Oh, I get on there with my girls and we have a great time. It's good exercise, yeah. Great fun.

[Frank]

But do you do many that are built into the ground, just out of curiosity? I partially did one at my own place where it was built into the ground. So you walk straight off our grassed area onto the trampoline space.

I sort of half dug into the bank. Obviously the legs and that are free, they're not dug in, they're not surrounded by soil. We haven't done many, I don't think I've done any, like actually fully in the ground.

Yeah, sure. But partially dug into banks and things, yeah, we have, where you can step straight off onto the trampoline. Which is pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah, it's great. One of my good mates, he did it as a project for himself. He loved his trampoline with his boys and he did a fully dug in one.

When you do that though, make sure that you put some drainage pits underneath.

[Frank] (47:48 - 47:48)

Oh, yeah.

[Andrew] (47:49 - 48:00)

So it doesn't fill up like a swimming pool and you can get water away or have mould or damp growing under there. 

[Frank]

Or anything growing under there. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's right.

[Frank]

Or a dog. It's going to go in under there and can’t get out.

[Amelia] (48:02 - 48:10)

So what about edible landscapes? We did have a little bit of a chat earlier, you talked about obviously how it all started out with your grandfather.

[Andrew] (48:11 - 48:11)

Yep.

[Amelia] (48:11 - 48:17)

Are you seeing much of edible landscapes these days and, you know, veggie patches and those sort of things?

[Andrew] (48:17 - 49:31)

Yeah, we are. Sometimes clients will specifically request that, that that is a part of their garden. They definitely want an area for the veggie patch.

And sometimes they're people that are asking because they want to get into it, not because they're already doing it, but because they want to have a space where they can have that or learn to do that or have their kids muck around with a couple of veggie tanks and fiddle around and play and do that, learning to grow things. Yeah, it is very popular. We get asked quite regularly.

We do a lot of edible landscapes. And that can range from doing like a whole orchard area, which we've done a number of times for people, and put arbours over with netting to stop possums and birds and things getting in, to just putting in some veggie tanks in the ground and fiddle up with the compost mix soil and where people want to plant their lettuces and tomatoes and things. Sometimes we'll construct timber veggie beds for people.

Yeah, definitely popular. And I think I've seen a bit of a resurgence of it actually. There's a lot of more exposure now in schools with teaching kids where our food comes from and how we can grow things.

And I think parents are seeing the importance of that as well and wanting to educate their kids and allow a space for things to be grown.

[Amelia] (49:32 - 49:34)

I think it's a good skill to have.

[Andrew] (49:34 - 49:35)

Yeah, definitely.

[Amelia] (49:35 - 49:37)

It doesn't just come from the supermarket.

[Frank] (49:37 - 50:26)

Generally it does. But it's nice. There's nothing so satisfying as growing something yourself and you've succeeded at it.

[Andrew]

That's right. 

[Frank]

If you've got the time to do it as well, to maintain it. So I love having herbs around the house, growing herbs and using them in our cooking.

And that's been wonderful to be able to do that. I find the garden, the actual veggie garden, probably because I'm time poor, I struggle to do that now. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, and things like your herbs that you use in your cooking, they're very easy to grow.

A lot of them are very hardy, like your parsley and oregano and your rosemary and thyme. 

[Frank]

I've got a big rosemary bush out the front. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, you can't kill it.

[Frank]

I love it. It's so good. Just go outside, put the shoes on, rip it out, doesn't matter what time of year.

[Andrew]

Put it in your roast lamb and away you go.

[Amelia] (50:26 - 50:27)

Ooh yeah.

[Frank] (50:27 - 50:28)

I put it on everything.

[Amelia] (50:29 - 50:30)

So good.

[Frank] (50:30 - 50:47)

Yes. But also I started doing pots on my deck. 

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Frank]

But I had to get them up a bit higher because my little local furry friends used to come and have a good nibble of those. So I've had to put them on top of a table so they don't get up there, especially the basil. Demolish that.

[Amelia] (50:47 - 50:51)

That's a good thing though. You can grow these things. You don't have to have a lot of space.

[Frank] (50:51 - 50:52)

No, you don't.

[Amelia] (50:52 - 50:55)

You can have a little courtyard or in a pot.

[Andrew] (50:55 - 51:34)

That's right. And you don't always need a dedicated space for your veggies or your herbs. Sometimes you can put those plants in amongst your other ornamental plants in your garden and they look quite nice.

You don't have to have, okay, this area is going to be our veggie patch or our herb patch. You might be able to put your rosemary or your thyme. 

[Frank]

They look great.

[Andrew]

They do. 

[Frank]

So I want to do a herb trolley in the next place. 

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Frank]

So I can go in and out. Because during summer they cop an absolute pounding so then get them in under cover. But, yes, it's just great grabbing fresh herbs while you're cooking.

[Andrew]

It's ideal.

[Amelia] (51:34 - 51:48)

So what are the first steps for getting started for anyone looking to engage a landscape designer or a landscaper? What do you recommend that they first start with? Do they need to have some idea of what they want first?

[Andrew] (51:48 - 52:48)

Yeah, I think like what I touched on earlier, think about what your lifestyle is like, how you want to live, what are your goals for your garden. Do you want to have your kids playing out in the yard? Do you want it to be an entertaining area?

Do you not want to be out there at all? Do you want a lot of hard spaces or do you want a lot of soft spaces like lawn areas and play cricket and that sort of thing? So start there and then work your way back and then look at, okay, well, what space do I have to allow for this?

Do I feel capable enough to taking this on myself or do I need to engage a landscaper or a landscape architect to be able to come in at an early stage to be able to have some design input into this? And if you do, usually the best outcomes occur when you meet with a landscaper or a landscape architect early on in the piece while the design for the house is still happening so that you can incorporate some of these things. In saying that, we often go to jobs once the house is complete as well.

[Frank]

Because some sites are more difficult.

[Andrew] (52:49 - 56:39)

That's right. It's more the difficult sites you've got to do more for planning with. 

[Frank]

But also the house because you don't know how the site's going to plan out because what are they going to find on site? How are they excavated?

Can they do certain works already on site due to the limitations? 

[Andrew]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

And you're kind of stuck.

Okay, this is what's left. Yeah. Because some of the more challenging sites that we deal with, I reckon you'll be doing the landscaping design a couple of times because of how the site plans out.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And that is a good point actually because sometimes you can have your ideal design in mind but then it's not practical when you've wasted time or energy, money, whatever, designing this thing that's not doable. So sometimes it's best to have a bit of an idea as to what you want to achieve but be flexible and understand that, okay, that might not work out.

We'll have to change that as we go. And once we see the heights and the levels, once the house has been built, we can make adjustments for that. 

[Frank]

I suppose having the big ticket items, what you want to achieve.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So I think for a client they've just got to make sure that they have an idea of what they want and then work out, okay, is it going to be beneficial to engage somebody early on in the piece or can we just wait till later? Often it can wait till later.

It doesn't always matter. But, you know, it doesn't hurt maybe just to get somebody out and give you some advice and have a chat about what's doable and not doable. Do I need to build this retaining wall now or, you know, before the house is even built because I'm going to lose access later?

Or can we just leave that down the track? 
 
 

[Frank]

Sure. 

[Andrew]

See how much money I've got left after the build.

[Frank]

And that is a major thing because budget-wise it's all in the house. 

[Andrew]

It is, yeah. That's the priority and I understand that.

Like we built a house a few years ago and it can be very easy to keep adding things on and can make things a bit more expensive. And often the landscape doesn't get done properly until five or ten years down the track once they're there. 

[Frank]

Very much so.

[Andrew]

Until you're able to save more money to be able to do it properly. 

[Frank]

I was thinking about that too because once you live in a place you get a better idea of the space that you have and how you actually interact. Like it's great that we can design, if we can do all the landscape and do it straight away, I reckon that's awesome.

But sometimes living in the space to understand how you actually live in your house, then the outside space as well. Because everyone likes the idea of a fire pit, doesn't mean they're going to use it. 

[Andrew]

That's right, yeah.

[Frank]

Amongst other things, everyone loves the idea of a veggie patch, but are they going to use it? So once you live there and depending on your lifestyle, you can make that call. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's right. So sometimes it's better off, and we often recommend this to clients if they're unsure about what they want, is just put some grass seed down for now so you've got a clean surface to walk on around your house and live in there for 12, 18 months. See where the sun patterns are different times of the year. Where is the shade being cast?

Where are your full sun areas? Where are the prevailing winds coming from? Do you need screening shrubs or privacy here or there from your neighbours?

Because some of these things you won't know until you live in a place for a full year. And you can go to the trouble of creating a beautiful, entertaining area, but if it's blasting with wind a lot of the time there, then you think, well, maybe I should have put that somewhere else. 
 
 

[Frank]

Or built a screen.

[Andrew]

Yeah, build a screen. And to be fair, in Launceston, because we're in the valley and Hobart's similar, you're going to get wind tearing through somewhere. We've actually designed a lot of houses, more higher-end houses.

They've got two spaces to go to. 

[Andrew]

Yeah, and that's smart. Like if you can afford to do that, then that's a good way to go because sometimes, especially like we were talking about earlier with your hot afternoon western sun, you want to be on the shady side of the house in the shade.

[Frank] (56:39 - 56:39)

Yeah, very much so.

[Andrew] (56:39 - 56:49)

Whereas in winter, you want to follow the sun and be there. And yeah, definitely the wind is a big problem. You want to make sure that you've got screening and protection.

[Frank] (56:49 - 56:49)

Because you're not going to use the space, are you?

[Andrew] (56:49 - 56:51)

No, it would just be too miserable to be out there.

[Amelia] (56:51 - 57:01)

Yeah, exactly. Are there any resources available for anyone wanting to learn more about suitable landscaping for their property? Do you recommend any websites?

[Andrew] (57:02 - 57:10)

There's lots of books and lots of shows on telly. Like a good one just for general gardening is Gardening Australia. That's a great show.

[Frank] (57:10 - 57:12)

That is awesome. That thing's been going for decades.

[Amelia] (57:12 - 57:14)

I was going to say, it's been around a long time.

[Andrew] (57:14 - 57:24)

Yeah, and I think what that will do is help you get passionate about your garden as well. They've got a lot of people on there that are really interested. 

[Frank]

Their passion is insane on there.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Costa's pretty good, isn't he?

[Frank] (57:25 - 58:47)

Yeah, yeah. Remember Peter Cundall? 

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. 

[Frank]

You know, these guys are amazing.

[Andrew]

So watching shows, one of my favourite shows is Monty Don's Gardens. I don't know if you've heard of him before, but he's an English fella, and he travels around to different gardens in the world, in France, Italy, Japan, all these different types of gardens and will walk you around. Some of them are hundreds of years old, and it provides really good inspiration.

I know a lot of people go, oh, that's not necessarily going to be educational for people about how to construct a garden. But I think having a go is probably the best way of learning. Just don't be too daunted by it.

You know, what's the worst thing that can go wrong? A few plants might die or whatever. 

[Frank]

Exactly right.

[Andrew]

Have a go, and you'll learn. 

[Frank]

I think it's a bit of fun too, but it's also having a bit of a plan. But, like, I've used certain nurseries, and I've asked, can you come to my site, look at the soils, and choose the plants that I need?

[Andrew]

Yeah, and some nurseries offer that service. So ask, yeah, if you go to a nursery. Because two of you would go down to your local, wherever, let's just say Bunnings, and grab whatever, and then it may not be suitable for the area, the soil, etc.

But you get someone in the know, you're going to choose the right plants, and you're going to get a higher percentage of them surviving. 

[Andrew]

That's right, yeah. That's a good way to go.

[Amelia] (58:47 - 58:53)

It's a good option. A lot of those nurseries, they have an experienced team there, and you can get a lot of really good advice.

[Frank] (58:53 - 59:24)

Nurseries are a dying thing though, aren't they? We've had quite a number finish up. 

[Andrew]

There's a lot shutting down, yeah.

[Frank]

But people don't want to take them over. The families that run them, and no one wants to take them over. 

[Andrew]

Nurseries are a lot of work, and there's a lot of labour involved in getting a plant, you know, from this little size pot to this size pot.

So you might be buying a tree that is a number of years old, but you might be buying it for $50 or $60. But there's been a lot of work put into that tree. 

[Frank]

There's a lot of stock to hold.

[Andrew]

Yes, yeah. There's a lot of outlay, yeah.

[Amelia] (59:24 - 59:50)

I guess when you think about it in the long run, you look at some of the trees. You know, one of my favourites, I love Japanese maples. I think they're beautiful.

I love the colours of them. You know, to buy established ones of those, they're not super cheap to buy. 

[Frank]

No.

[Amelia]

But if you look at probably what it's cost to actually maintain that, to buy an established tree, like it probably doesn't really cover a huge cost of that. 

[Andrew]

No. 

[Amelia]

I mean, think of the time you've got to water it and...

[Frank] (59:50 - 59:51)

Trim it.

[Amelia] (59:51 - 59:52)

Yeah.

[Frank] (59:52 - 59:53)

Fertilise it.

[Amelia] (59:53 - 59:53)

Yeah.

[Frank] (59:54 - 1:01:23)

And look after it properly, you know. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. And, like, I think trees add so much value to your property.

So, like, I'm not afraid to spend $200, $300 on a nice tree because it's going to reward you down the track. If you don't have the budget for that, then just buy one that's less advanced and wait for it to grow. But trees are just such an asset to our parks and gardens and our streetscape.

You think about, you know, streets that you go down. Like, I especially notice it when I've been to, like, Sydney or Melbourne and you see these beautiful big old trees that are lining the streets and they add so much feeling to the space. But in summer there's so much shade and it cools all the hardscapes down. Yeah, it's fantastic. 

[Frank]

Agreed. And I think that sets apart when you go into certain subdivisions, certain suburbs where they've had that, you know, foresight to be able to put that in.

We don't see it as much anymore, which is a little bit of a shame because I think council also then takes on the liability and the maintenance and that becomes another problem. But you do appreciate landscapes, streets. 

[Andrew]

Yeah. I think as soon as you drive into a subdivision that's been nicely planned and has some nice straight trees in there, you just instantly feel there's a difference. 

[Frank]

Yes. 

[Andrew]

Especially one that's, you know, 10, 15 years old where those trees have been able to mature. It just adds a lovely aspect. 

[Frank]

Oh, very much so, yeah.

[Amelia] (1:01:24 - 1:01:31)

And if anyone wants to engage you through Andrew Nicholson Landscapes, how is the best way to contact you?

[Andrew] (1:01:31 - 1:01:55)

So I've got a website. It's about to be upgraded at the moment, but you can go to andrewnicholson.com.au and I've got some examples there of jobs that I've done before. It does need updating, as I said. So a lot of those jobs are pretty old now, but there will be some new ones up there shortly. And it's got all my contact details on there. You can also get me through Facebook and social media as well.

[Amelia] (1:01:55 - 1:01:55)

Wonderful. 

[Frank]

Excellent. Thanks, Andrew.

[Andrew] (1:01:56 - 1:01:58)

No worries. Thanks for having me. It's been good.

[Amelia] (1:01:59 - 1:02:06)

Thank you so much for coming and we'll catch you all in the very next episode. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. 

[Frank]

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (1:02:08 - 1:02:19)

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.