E116. Renovating existing vs build new for investment properties

In this engaging episode of the Building Design, Prime Time podcast, hosts Amelia and Frank Geskus dive deep into one of the biggest questions facing property investors today, should you renovate an existing home or build a new one? With their signature mix of expertise and down-to-earth conversation, they unpack the pros, cons, and hidden traps of both approaches, offering invaluable insights for anyone looking to make smart, informed property decisions. 

Frank and Amelia explore everything from the emotional and financial challenges of entering Australia’s real estate market to the practical realities of planning approvals, renovation risks, and site constraints. They discuss how factors like location, thermal efficiency, maintenance costs, and tenant demand all influence whether a renovation or new build will deliver the best return. Along the way, they share entertaining real-world examples and a few personal lessons learned “the hard way.”

Listeners will appreciate the duo’s honest, relatable tone blending humour with hands-on experience as they tackle topics like over-designing for personal taste, choosing the right builder, and understanding what today’s tenants truly want. The episode wraps up with a passionate discussion about Australia’s housing shortage and the vital role private investors play in meeting rental demand.

Whether you’re a first-time investor, a seasoned property owner, or simply curious about building design, this episode offers practical wisdom, thoughtful reflection, and a healthy dose of inspiration. Tune in to Building Design Prime Time Podcast, where real insights meet real-life building stories.

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company. All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E116. Renovating existing vs building new for investment properties

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designer's perspective. 

[Amelia]

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time podcast. I'm your host, Amelia. And once again, we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:42)

Hey, Amelia.

[Amelia] (0:43 - 0:44)

Oh, it's another Friday.

[Frank] (0:45 - 0:56)

And the weather's turned nice. And if you've been following the weather anywhere in Australia, it's been all over the place. And Tassie has had an absolute shocker of a spring.

[Amelia] (0:56 - 1:03)

Hasn't it? It hasn't felt like summer probably until maybe today because we've had wind.

[Frank] (1:03 - 1:04)

Yeah, we've still got wind.

[Amelia] (1:05 - 1:06)

Yeah, we still have a bit of wind.

[Frank] (1:06 - 1:07)

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

[Amelia] (1:07 - 1:09)

We've got bushfires on the East Coast.

[Frank] (1:09 - 1:13)

Yeah, but it doesn't help with the wind, does it? No. Down at Dolphin Sands, never good.

[Amelia] (1:13 - 1:14)

Never good at all.

[Frank] (1:15 - 1:30)

All right. So today we're going to have a little bit of a chat about investment properties and whether you should investigate buying something, renovating it for an investment, or do you get a brand new build?

[Amelia] (1:30 - 1:31)

That's a really good one.

[Frank] (1:32 - 2:01)

Because, you know, everyone talks real estate, but I think Australia loves real estate. And I actually feel for a lot of people trying to get into the real estate market too. And this is tough.

So it may not be the right thing for people trying to get in. But it might be as well, because I know of other people that are renting and they've bought a property to rent to get into the market. And they're using the value of that property with the rental return plus a little bit of extra they earn to pay off the mortgage.

[Amelia] (2:01 - 2:04)

Well, it makes a lot of sense in some ways.

[Frank] (2:04 - 2:06)

Yeah, but you're not living in your own castle.

[Amelia] (2:07 - 2:07)

True.

[Frank] (2:08 - 2:12)

And I reckon mentally it's a hard one too, because we all want to live in our own place.

[Amelia] (2:12 - 2:17)

And I mean, realistically, probably over the last few years, it has gotten a little bit harder for people.

[Frank] (2:18 - 2:18)

It has.

[Amelia] (2:18 - 2:19)

With the prices.

[Frank] (2:19 - 2:43)

So just a few caveats of this podcast that we're about to do. This isn't financial advice. It's not construction investing advice.

It's purely trying to help you think better, research smarter, avoid mistakes that we've seen. People just go down the wrong track for an investment. I've seen it with commercial.

People have a crack at doing commercial type things for like accommodation.

[Amelia] (2:44 - 2:44)

Yes.

[Frank] (2:44 - 3:01)

And they've gone down the wrong track and it hasn't quite worked. So this decision kind of matters because you've got to figure which way works for you. So for most investors, default is whatever's easier.

But you don't know what's easier until you actually do your investigation and research.

[Amelia] (3:01 - 3:02)

That's right.

[Frank] (3:02 - 3:16)

And location, location, location. 

[Amelia]

Yes. That's a big one.

[Frank]

Because you could be all sorts of things. Renovation could be faster. A new build could be cheaper. A renovation could be cheaper. And new builds are less risky, potentially.

[Amelia] (3:17 - 3:24)

But you could also have more problems with renovating as well. You could find more things that were not anticipated.

[Frank] (3:25 - 3:26)

And especially if you don't know what you're looking at.

[Amelia] (3:26 - 3:27)

That's right.

[Frank] (3:27 - 3:49)

And also building reports don't pick up everything because it's a visual. They don't do destructive or invasive inspections. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

So you pull the sheeting off, hello, you've got asbestos lining under it. Or the bottom plate has rotted in the bathroom, which then affects the bedroom, which means you've got to rip the whole thing out and what's holding the roof up.

[Amelia] (3:49 - 3:49)

Yes.

[Frank] (3:49 - 4:26)

So none of this is guaranteed as you're going forward. So the wrong renovation can be more expensive than a new build. But on the flip side, if it's in an amazing location, you could probably get a great reward in the future.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

A lot of pain straight up. But a new build on the wrong site could be then that will be a never-ending uphill battle.

So you haven't chosen the right location for it. It's also depending how the market's running as well. What's how many rentals?

There might be heaps of rentals and you're not going to get someone to jump in there.

[Amelia] (4:26 - 4:28)

It's all supply and demand, isn't it?

[Frank] (4:28 - 5:14)

And at the moment, all through Australia, as I understand it, there's quite a reasonable demand. I know here in Launceston, it's pretty up there. So we'll just jump straight in.

So you've got to pick a path and you need clarity. What's the outcome you want? Are you chasing rental yield, the money you get from it?

Are you chasing equity as in the uplift? So properties go up in value and they have those spikes. We had one recently. It was quite a big uplift in the base price of houses. But so did all the base price of all the materials and costs and cost of living. It's kind of cancelled out in a way.

Are you trying to future-proof? Are you trying to avoid maintenance headaches? It's being clear what you want.

In some sense, it helps make easier decisions.

[Amelia] (5:14 - 5:24)

And the type of property you buy, I guess, will depend on the type of tenant you'll attract as well. And that might be also dependent on the location.

[Frank] (5:24 - 5:54)

Oh, 100%. That could be. You might want a big family.

You want no family. You know, just small inner city, one bedroom or two bedroom terrace. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

That's cool and funky. And just have one car and then walk to work, you know. You might want to look at this from, A, Airbnb.

We're not going to get into that deep. You know, where you want to do short-term stays, which requires other approvals as well. And in every state, that's changing.

Different taxes, rates, potentially.

[Amelia] (5:54 - 5:56)

Certain permits you require.

[Frank] (5:56 - 6:12)

Permits and safety components. So let's start with renovating for investment. So there's a few ideas that jump us.

Some of the pros are you can leverage the existing structure. So if the bones are good, you can upgrade the kitchen, the bathrooms. Mind you, they're the most expensive part of the whole build.

[Amelia] (6:12 - 6:12)

Yes.

[Frank] (6:13 - 6:54)

Floors, lighting, quick increase of rental appeal, which is very true. It can be a faster turnaround if the cosmetic upgrade can be done in weeks, not months. But please be aware that you may not know all the trades.

If you're really good at this stuff, if you know the right trades to talk to, you know where to buy the carpet, you know where to buy things at a really good value. Lower upfront costs sometimes because you're not touching services. You know, water, the power, everything is pretty good.

The renovation could be pretty cost effective. It could have great features because the charm of an older home. Everyone loves timber floors, nice facades, high ceilings, until you come into a Tasmanian winter.

[Amelia] (6:55 - 6:57)

Oh, true. You've got to heat it then, don't you?

[Frank] (6:57 - 7:05)

I've got to state it. Like, it gets cold here. That's just a fact.

So older places are not kind on your hip pocket when it comes to power bills.

[Amelia] (7:06 - 7:07)

No, that's right.

[Frank] (7:08 - 7:23)

So in some cases, either then or look at a new build because they're going to meet a minimum six star and they're going to be super comfy, super toasty and cost very little to run. Everyone loves the charm of an old place.

[Amelia] (7:23 - 7:33)

That's true. There's certain, you know, quaint sort of feeling you get going into an older home that has, you know, your beautiful polished floorboards or big windows.

[Frank] (7:34 - 8:15)

Or something that's been untouched and it's got the original doors that have been painted and you've got hardwood skirts and arcs from the, you know, the fifties and the art deco features in it, you know, beautiful. Or down to your Federation homes or Edwardian, all those types. Just beautiful.

But maintenance can be a bit up there. So that's the other side of it, your maintenance. So with renos though, you can manufacture value with strategic cosmetic improvements, get that wow factor without massive construction costs.

But one thing I've noticed though, like the plaster, the finishes in these older places over time, they can deteriorate quite badly.

[Amelia] (8:16 - 8:28)

Oh, I had lovely latham plaster on my rental property and not anymore. It's all been sheeted over, but they're the things you deal with, I guess, when you buy an older house.

[Frank] (8:28 - 9:31)

And that's trying to figure out, is this property suitable? And we're not going to get into locations, okay? That's a whole other different topic.

So here's some of the cons, some of the risks. So the hidden defects, as I mentioned before, asbestos, wiring, dodgy wiring, terrible plumbing, rotting framing, dry rot, water issues, leak in the roof, roof has deteriorated, gutters not fixed properly. Until you even open the walls, go to fix something and it just, you keep chasing the problem.

Old compliance standards, like fixing one part of the house may force you to upgrade somewhere else in the house. So if you fix a bathroom and it hasn't been done properly and it's got no ventilation, because I've seen plenty when they're in the middle of the house, what a great idea that is. They haven't vented it properly, so the thing rots itself to pieces.

Lack of waterproofing, that's the funny thing though, I'll just talk about waterproofing. You find some old 60s homes, don't have any waterproofing membranes and the way they're built and they still don't leak.

[Amelia] (9:31 - 9:33)

Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it?

[Frank] (9:33 - 9:35)

50, 60 years old bathrooms and they don't leak.

[Amelia] (9:35 - 9:36)

No.

[Frank] (9:37 - 9:41)

And we're so clever the way we do it now under the Australian standards.

[Amelia] (9:41 - 9:43)

And there's still a few problems.

[Frank] (9:43 - 10:09)

Few? Yeah, the way it's done, yeah, that's a whole other podcast just on wet area and poor applications. So layout limitations, because if you've got a 60s house you might have a slightly open plan, the 50s, you know, they were compartmentalised, they were just small rooms and they weren't opened up.

But if you want to open up, everyone expects big open living spaces, don't they? You know?

[Amelia] (10:09 - 10:10)

They do now, yeah

[Frank] (10:10 - 10:17)

Yeah, we want kitchen, living, dining all together, but you've got to smack it over walls, that means you need to get permits for that. That may be worth your while doing.

[Amelia] (10:18 - 10:18)

Yes.

[Frank] (10:18 - 10:25)

And the one that really ticks me off is the living area doesn't face the sun, you know, east or north.

[Amelia] (10:25 - 10:29)

Which I think is, it seems to be pretty common in some of the older properties.

[Frank] (10:29 - 10:50)

Oh no, because there might be just four rooms with a lean-to out the back and an infield veranda. Yes. And they're a shocker.

You might have to do a building envelope, add a floor area to the building, you might have to do renovations, carport, garage, whatever, and you've got to go through planning and building that you weren't prepared for. To be fair, if you're going to extend or do anything like that, you're going to trigger planning.

[Amelia] (10:51 - 10:51)

Oh, definitely.

[Frank] (10:52 - 11:05)

And the unpredictability side of renovating is runaway costs. So choosing the wrong house and your renos are bigger than expected, it's not a cheap reno anymore. It's a very expensive reno.

[Amelia] (11:06 - 11:06)

Yes.

[Frank] (11:06 - 12:10)

But it may give it much better bones. So let's look at the other side of it. You're building new for investment.

So you can design exactly what the market wants, which is good. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

You know what the expectations. They're generally very warm and toasty because they have to be. They are efficient. Acoustics are generally better.

Insulation, air tightness, all better than old homes, unless you do a real big reno, but then it's probably not worth it. Lower maintenance. Everything is under warranty.

No surprises behind the wall. You can optimise. So dual occupancy, I'm not going to go there.

Mainlanders, you know what that's all about. Tasmania, we're a bit behind the times on dual occupancy. Secondary dwelling.

That means you could put a granny flat in the backyard. You know, that's another added bonus to the investment. As long as you plan that well at the start.

Faster approvals. If you're code compliant, then renos. Renos could be harder.

You're in a more built up area. Might be a smooth pathway. So here's the other, the risks with new builds.

Higher upfront costs. Buying a piece of land now.

[Amelia] (12:10 - 12:12)

Yeah, costs a fortune.

[Frank] (12:13 - 12:15)

Man, since COVID, it's been insane.

[Amelia] (12:15 - 12:16)

It's crazy.

[Frank] (12:17 - 13:34)

Talk about a 100% jump. This is, and I'm talking about Tasmania. So I can't comment on Victoria, New South Wales, South Australia or anywhere else.

But longer lead time. Design documentation approvals. That's what we do all day, every day, you know.

And you could be anywhere between four and a half to six months to get all that sorted. But from what I hear, there's certain parts in Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland, you could be two years. 

[Amelia]

Isn't that crazy?

[Frank]

It's very different from every state, yeah. Site constraints. Here's one thing I can always recommend to you.

Don't do an investment property on a steep site. That's just, I'm just going to say it. Steep sites will cost you more money on every aspect.

Just the build itself will be 20%, minimum. You build a deck. Oh, you've got to build a deck.

I can't have a flat patio. That's more money. The driveway, it's more money.

Everything's just more money on a steep site. Unfortunately, Launceston and Hobart were in a valley. So flat sites are gold to get your bang for your buck.

The other thing is soil classifications, easements. They can all affect your budget. Over-designing.

Yeah, this is a big one. Investors often build for themselves, thinking of themselves and not the market.

[Amelia] (13:34 - 13:37)

Yeah, they get a bit emotionally attached perhaps.

[Frank] (13:37 - 13:42)

Yeah, it's too much detail, too much cost, no return. And if you can do the same on renos.

[Amelia] (13:43 - 13:44)

You can, yes.

[Frank] (13:44 - 14:00)

You know, keep it simple, functional, yeah. And here's the other one. Wrong builder, wrong system.

So if you choose the wrong builder and you find out he's a bit of a goose and not always honest with you and all the rest of it, it's going to make your life a misery.

[Amelia] (14:01 - 14:01)

Yes.

[Frank] (14:01 - 15:10)

That's where I think sticking with project builders is generally is a much higher chance for it to go well because they're a bigger company, well-oiled machine. But do your research on choosing the right builder. We've got podcasts and that.

I think we've got people- 

[Amelia]

We've got resources. 

[Frank]

Resources on our website for choosing the right builder. And it's probably more critical than finding a partner for life.

[Amelia]

Really? 

[Frank]

Well, think about it. Anyway, you can take that edge.

Common traps investors fall into. And this is- I've seen this doing work for people and even for accommodation and stuff. They haven't researched.

They just pick stuff they like. So choosing what they like and what tenants want. And like with short-term stays, I just spent a fortune on stupid bathtubs and showers and shit.

Sorry. Rather than sticking to the basics and just do what needs to be done for a long-term rental. It has to function.

Easy to clean, easy to maintain. They'll never give you a problem. Underestimating the time delays kills your costs.

[Amelia] (15:10 - 15:11)

Oh, it definitely does.

[Frank] (15:12 - 15:28)

So if you've got a good guy that does rentals well, that can help you, or you know a bunch of tradies that can do that and you can coordinate it, great. But there's a skill factor. But a good builder can renovate fast.

They're a sight to behold.

[Amelia] (15:28 - 15:36)

Yes. And I think that's an important one because you can fall into the trap of trying to arrange all of the trades yourself.

[Frank] (15:36 - 15:38)

Yeah, tough.

[Amelia] (15:38 - 15:44)

It's a bit of a rookie mistake, I find, especially if you're not familiar with how things work.

[Frank] (15:44 - 15:52)

But also you're a one-off client where a lot of the sub-trades work with builders, regular builders, and they get work all the time often.

[Amelia] (15:52 - 15:53)

Yes.

[Frank] (15:53 - 16:15)

So obviously they're going to get a lot more commitment to the people that pay them on a regular basis. So not testing the demand is another one. So what do tenants actually want?

This is we're talking to real estate companies that look after rental properties. What suburbs support the demographic? What adds value?

What doesn't?

[Amelia] (16:16 - 16:16)

Yes.

[Frank] (16:17 - 17:15)

And when you come to renos and stuff, what, understand the planning rules, and you go to do something, you need a permit, and then triggers all sorts of pain. You know, so when you're doing this, you really need to understand all the planning requirements in that particular area of that house and what the zoning is. And in Tassie, we've got good resources online now.

And the problem is the wording isn't great. And if you don't, you've got to learn a whole new bunch of language in there. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

What I call planning speak and building speak. Multiple quotes is always a good idea. Working with people giving you quotes, get them around site and get lots of advice.

The con is don't just get one. And also not having an exit strategy. You need to have multiple outcomes.

If the rent doesn't work, can I go Airbnb? Can I look at future subdivision? Can I add value add?

Is it the granny flat in the back? All those types of things. Design with options to then you'll be able to pivot.

[Amelia] (17:16 - 17:16)

Yes.

[Frank] (17:17 - 17:36)

So add value to the property. So let's look at this from a practical lens, investors use renovations. The structure has to be fundamentally solid.

You need an expert to come and tell you that. Are the upgrades mainly cosmetic? Because if the floor's falling out of your bathroom.

[Amelia] (17:36 - 17:38)

Oh, that's an expensive fix.

[Frank] (17:38 - 17:47)

Of course it is. Is the electrical up to spec? Has it got a switchboard upgrade?

Is it the old black wiring? Hello? There's a problem.

[Amelia] (17:47 - 17:48)

The fuses even.

[Frank] (17:48 - 18:46)

There are old iron pipes. Has the storm water been upgraded? Do the gutters, fascia look okay?

You may not be able to do that. You're not altering the footprint. That's a key one.

You're not extending it. You might put a deck, patios, all that type of stuff that you may not need a permit for. And it's keeping the scope really tight and controlled.

So then from a new build, it makes the existing house, house could be a money pit. You find all those problems. The layout of the houses is generally of a greater appeal to the market.

People are now looking forward to better thermal performance of houses. Not spending a lot of money on power. Predictable long-term maintenance.

That's what a new house gives you. There should be zero maintenance for a long, long time. So you've got to figure that out.

And we've spoken about location. And you look at availability.

[Amelia] (18:47 - 18:55)

Yeah, I think that's nearly a chat for a different podcast, maybe with a real estate agent or a property manager. 

[Frank]

Property managers. 

[Amelia]

Yeah.

[Frank] (18:55 - 19:06)

They'll be able to advise on that a bit as well. And possibly get someone in for an Airbnb if you want to look at getting into this and running your own Airbnb or getting someone to manage your Airbnb.

[Amelia] (19:07 - 19:08)

That's a good point.

[Frank] (19:08 - 19:24)

So both of these strategies can work brilliantly. It comes down to lots and lots of research. But a lot of these costs could destroy your margins.

One thing goes wrong, potentially you can wipe out money. It takes you years to recoup that. 

 [Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

And it's just costing.

[Amelia] (19:24 - 19:32)

I think that's the biggest thing. And obviously, we're not going to delve into financials. That's a whole different topic.

But you do have to do all of your sums.

[Frank] (19:32 - 19:46)

Yeah, and we're no experts on that. You've got to learn how to do this. I'm sure there's courses you can do on it.

But you've also got to understand the building, the sites, understand approvals. And once you've done it, it becomes a lot more obvious.

[Amelia] (19:47 - 19:47)

Yes.

[Frank] (19:48 - 19:49)

And you and I have both done.

[Amelia] (19:50 - 19:50)

We have, yes.

[Frank] (19:51 - 20:16)

You've done renos, I've done renos. I've built new, I've built units. So seeing both sides, and you learn from the hard way sometimes.

And that's okay, that's part of it. But lots of research, talk to real estate agents, multiples, property managers. And even talking to, if you're looking at short-term stays, talking to short-term stay property managers.

[Amelia] (20:16 - 20:16)

Yes.

[Frank] (20:17 - 20:23)

Because they can give you good advice. Because they'd have all the stats of, well, this works well, this works well. Yeah, and what areas work well.

[Amelia] (20:24 - 20:24)

Yeah.

[Frank] (20:24 - 20:25)

What do you think?

[Amelia] (20:25 - 20:27)

That's a lot of information in a short period of time.

[Frank] (20:27 - 20:28)

We've been doing that lately.

[Amelia] (20:28 - 20:31)

We have, just piling it all in there.

[Frank] (20:31 - 20:46)

We’re piling it all in there. But it's just to give you an idea. Because I still believe there is great potential.

If you want to get into property, you can still do this. It's just finding the right time, getting the right advice, doing lots of research. And don't let emotion get in.

[Amelia] (20:46 - 20:47)

Yes.

[Frank] (20:47 - 20:54)

But also, there's the flip side to that. You get frozen in fear. If that's the case, don't do it.

[Amelia] (20:54 - 20:55)

Yeah, yeah.

[Frank] (20:56 - 20:59)

But reno’s we're doing cosmetics. I think it's a really good thing.

[Amelia] (20:59 - 21:02)

Yeah, you're very much into that, aren't you? An advocator of it.

[Frank] (21:02 - 21:09)

I just don't see enough of it. Because, look, there's people that don't look after their houses properly. They're deceased estates.

We had Sophie.

[Amelia] (21:09 - 21:11)

In our previous podcast, yes.

[Frank] (21:11 - 21:25)

With Harrington Road, where they go into these elderly singles or couples. And they have to move on to different accommodation to live in. And these houses are old.

They're tired. But they just need love. But the bones are good.

[Amelia] (21:26 - 21:26)

Oh, yeah.

[Frank] (21:27 - 21:33)

And that could be the opportunity. You find one like that. And it's cosmetic.

You don't have to do a lot to it.

[Amelia] (21:33 - 21:41)

And it can be incredibly rewarding, I think, to that process. And maybe people are just uninterested in doing that at the moment.

[Frank] (21:41 - 21:42)

And rentals are still needed.

[Amelia] (21:44 - 21:45)

Oh, 100%.

[Frank] (21:45 - 21:55)

There is a housing shortage. Yeah, really. Government isn't, all the levels of government are not going to fix it.

Let's be honest.

[Amelia] (21:55 - 21:56)

No, they can't.

[Frank] (21:56 - 22:16)

Stats have shown, they've already neglected this for years and years and years. And they're well behind the eight ball. And they can't fix it.

And also, trying to get government organise half this stuff, they couldn't organise a chook raffle half the time. In all seriousness, private enterprise can do this stuff to make money. Why should the government can't do it?

They're hopeless.

[Amelia] (22:16 - 22:18)

This is going to turn into a political debate.

[Frank] (22:19 - 22:29)

The runs are on the board. It's very clear. Everyone can see it.

When there's incident inquiries, when they're asking, well, how many houses have you built with the Housing Australia Future Fund?

[Amelia] (22:29 - 22:29)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:29 - 22:31)

It's utterly embarrassing.

[Amelia] (22:31 - 22:33)

Yeah, they haven't met their quota.

[Frank] (22:33 - 22:52)

Yeah, you could go to any building company, build me this, to this quality, bang, done. That's what I get frustrated with this. Because government control, they don't care.

The people that are running these departments haven't got their money on the line. It's all our taxpayer money.

[Amelia] (22:52 - 22:53)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:54 - 23:08)

And that makes me sad. Yet there are plenty of construction, quality construction companies that can just get in and build stuff. They're just hung up about whatever they do.

So yeah, I better leave it there. I'm going to get myself into trouble.

[Amelia] (23:08 - 23:10)

On your soapbox.

[Frank] (23:10 - 23:15)

On my soapbox again. But why shouldn't private people be able to provide rentals?

[Amelia] (23:16 - 23:17)

No, that's exactly right.

[Frank] (23:17 - 23:22)

The rest of the people bag them out because of the nasty landlords. I'm a landlord. You're a landlord.

[Amelia] (23:22 - 23:28)

We're offering a service at the end of the day. Yes, it's a business, but we're offering a service to the public.

[Frank] (23:28 - 23:38)

Yes, and people say you're charging too much or whatever. But the risk is taken on. The money sometimes doesn't cover the cost of the loan because of the change to the interest rates.

[Amelia] (23:38 - 23:39)

That's exactly right.

[Frank] (23:39 - 23:48)

So take it as you will. But I am more than happy to help people find a roof over their heads. And I'm looking for the long term for my family. We all do.

[Amelia] (23:49 - 23:50)

Yeah.

[Frank] (23:51 - 23:52)

We'll leave it there.

[Amelia] (23:54 - 24:12)

Let's wrap it up there, folks. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. 

[Frank]

Catch ya’s later. 

[OUTRO]

You're listening to the Building Design Prime Time Podcast.