E133. Hot water systems for your home

It's one of the most expensive decisions in your home, and most people make it in a panic.

Your hot water system dies. The plumber asks what you want. You say "just replace the old one." And just like that, you've locked in years of unnecessarily high power bills without a second thought.

In this episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, Frank Geskus and Amelia sit down to unpack one of the most overlooked decisions in a new build, renovation or extension. Hot water accounts for a significant chunk of your energy bill, and with the range of options available today, the difference between a well-chosen system and a default replacement could cost you thousands over its lifetime.

Frank takes you through the real comparison: standard electric storage cylinders, heat pump systems, and the surprisingly clever option of connecting your existing cylinder to your solar panels using smart diverter controllers, something Frank only discovered while doing his own research. Spoiler: the simplest system might be smarter than you think.

But it's not just about the unit. Frank and Amelia dig into the questions most people never ask, payback periods, warranty traps, service agent availability, pipe run lengths, insulation, placement on site, and whether that top-of-the-range heat pump will even function properly in a Tasmanian winter.

If you're building new, renovating, or your hot water system is living on borrowed time, this episode will change how you think about what's sitting quietly in your laundry. 

Be sure to subscribe and tune in weekly for the next episode! 

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts  do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company.  All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses,  or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E133. Hot water systems for your home

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective.

[Amelia] (0:26 - 0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:43 - 0:45)

Hey Amelia, another Friday.

[Amelia] (0:45 - 0:48)

Yep and it's miserable outside isn't it?

[Frank] (0:48 - 0:49)

She’s a miserable day. It's a great day to be inside.

[Amelia] (0:49 - 0:50)

It is.

[Frank] (0:50 - 0:51)

Great day to do a podcast.

[Amelia] (0:52 - 1:00)

It is and we've got a topic to talk about that is probably one of those forgotten items when you're building, renovating, extending.

[Frank] (1:00 - 2:03)

Also, you don't know what to do when it craps itself. 

[Amelia]

That's exactly right. 

[Frank]

We're going to talk about hot water systems.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Just as an overview and a few other things, I've been doing some research on this myself, but we're just looking at well, if you're choosing a new hot water service, maybe yours in your house has died at the most inconvenient time, or you're building a new house, you're renovating, extending, it's well worthwhile. Actually, it's essential.

You really need to get some information on this because it can save you a fair bit of money and also choosing the right system, how long is it going to last? 

[Amelia]

Yeah, that's exactly right. 

[Frank]

So, it really is one of the most overlooked decisions in a new build or reno.

Now, when it fails in your house, and I remember having this, it was an Easter long weekend, my hot water cylinder decided to say no more and that was really awkward. Just as well, I knew someone who was a plumber who didn't go away on holidays and able to get me some gear and got it all sorted. 

[Amelia]

That's lucky.

[Frank]

I was very lucky.

[Amelia] (2:03 - 2:04)

Yeah.

[Frank] (2:04 - 2:06)

Yes. Otherwise, cold showers for a weekend.

[Amelia] (2:06 - 2:06)

Oh.

[Frank] (2:08 - 2:16)

But we were just talking before, hot water at your taps at every point in your house is an absolute luxury, but it's normal now.

[Amelia] (2:16 - 2:17)

It is.

[Frank] (2:17 - 2:35)

So, it's only been around, on average, 60 years around the world. 

[Amelia]

That's incredible. 

[Frank]

Yeah. It's bizarre, isn't it? And just before that, cold showers, bathing baths, boiling your own water, all that type of stuff, go to the wash house. 

[Amelia]

How did they survive before?

[Frank]

The public baths.

[Amelia] (2:35 - 2:35)

Oh.

[Frank] (2:37 - 2:39)

Yeah. Interesting. Shared facilities.

[Amelia] (2:39 - 2:40)

Yes.

[Frank] (2:40 - 2:47)

Yeah, but it was what it was, but now we've got this and we all take it for granted and everyone loves a hot shower on a cold day.

[Amelia] (2:47 - 2:49)

Oh, especially here in Tassie.

[Frank] (2:49 - 2:58)

Yeah, totally, totally. So, most people just go to the plumber and ask or they'll go, it's failed, what do you want to do? Let's replace the old one.

[Amelia] (2:59 - 2:59)

Yeah.

[Frank] (2:59 - 3:28)

And I get it. When you're under pressure, you don't want to rethink the whole thing, but when you're renovating, when you're doing your house, I think it's really important. And look, none of this stuff is cheap either.

Let's be fair. The cheapest thing is just putting a hot water cylinder in, electric hot water cylinder, plug it in, off you go. But it's also one of the biggest expenses now in your heating bill.

If you've got a house that performs very well, you know, doesn't use a lot of power, your hot water service is one of your highest usage now.

[Amelia] (3:29 - 3:30)

Is it really?

[Frank] (3:30 - 3:32)

Yeah, go check your power bill.

[Amelia] (3:32 - 3:33)

Yeah, I will.

[Frank] (3:34 - 4:24)

So, and that's going to vary from where you are, air conditioning or heating, whatever you have to do. But we're going to talk about a couple of different options and ideas, but we're not going to cover solar hot water because that is a different beast, different realm. And it's a very valid thing to investigate, but we're not going to talk about that at this stage.

But we're going to compare looking standard electric hot water services, standard electric storage connected with heat pumps. It's a heat pump unit built on top or the heat pump is separated from the tank. And we're going to look at electric storage connected to your solar, that is your solar panels generating electricity.

We'll talk a bit more about pipe insulation and also where you actually locate this. So, do you want to have the best hot water system out there?

[Amelia] (4:24 - 4:34)

I guess, I guess you would have to weigh up why it's important, what makes it important to you and I guess how you use your hot water in your house as well.

[Frank] (4:34 - 4:43)

Well, you know, it has been known in our household that people have long showers, empty the tank and then I get a little bit grumpy.

[Amelia] (4:43 - 4:44)

Because you have to have a cold shower?

[Frank] (4:45 - 4:46)

Well, lukewarm.

[Amelia] (4:47 - 4:48)

Lukewarm, oh.

[Frank] (4:49 - 5:35)

You know, that's a bit of a problem. But a couple of things to consider. If you're doing a new house, this is the perfect time to do your research.

And we keep talking about research, so don't take our word for it. So, your standard hot water cylinder, it's going to cost you anywhere between, you know, $12, $13, $1800 odd dollars. Easy to pop in.

[Amelia]

Yep. 

[Frank]

Put it in a cupboard, put it outside, but they are expensive to run. So, then you've also got the solar ones, which is solar PV, which then helps control the unit.

This is really interesting, I only learnt about this, but you can get controllers that can use the surplus energy from your solar system to run your hot water system.

[Amelia] (5:35 - 5:36)

That makes so much sense.

[Frank] (5:37 - 5:37)

Yeah.

[Amelia] (5:38 - 5:38)

Very efficient.

[Frank] (5:39 - 6:21)

Well, it is. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

You know, there's more cost involved, but you've got to look at your payback period on some of these things too.

[Amelia]

Yeah, is it worth it? 

[Frank]

That's it. So, you can get timers, which can just tick over at certain times of day.

In Tasmania, I probably wouldn't recommend it because we don't have the same sunlight levels as the rest of the country. You've got Solaria relay solar aware switches. And that can cost you between $800 to $1,300, which turns on the hot water system when the solar export is available.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

And then there's a pure diverter. So, this one modulates excess solar into the hot water. So, that could be $1,000 to $2,200 to get installed.

[Amelia] (6:21 - 6:22)

Wow.

[Frank] (6:22 - 6:26)

But your payback period could be relatively, you know, in three or four years.

[Amelia] (6:26 - 6:28)

Yeah, it could be really efficient.

[Frank] (6:29 - 7:03)

So, that's actually a really cool way of doing it. I didn't know it was available until I did the research. So, then you've also got to look at, well, low cost upfront, standard, simple technology.

It's easy to fix. Most plumbers understand it. You've got to get a specialist sparky electrician who knows how to install this stuff.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Yeah, and then potentially you'll be able to measure the savings on your power bill. Because it's interesting because they get bugger all from their excess solar energy going back into the grid now.

So, why wouldn't you use that into your hot water cylinder?

[Amelia] (7:03 - 7:04)

Yeah, right.

[Frank] (7:04 - 7:17)

Interesting, isn't it? So, all right. I'm going to go to the second option.

Well, it's actually the third option. We said the hot water cylinder, the one with the PV power as well. But now we go to the heat pump hot water units.

[Amelia] (7:17 - 7:21)

Now, you've done a bit of research on this for your own house. Is that right?

[Frank] (7:21 - 7:31)

Yeah, and all these came up. Oh, and the heat pump hot water one, my brain was fried by the end of this. 

[Amelia]

Really?

[Frank]

There was so many of them. It was extraordinary.

[Amelia] (7:32 - 7:36)

And, you know, is it like comparing apples with apples or are they all a little bit different?

[Frank] (7:36 - 7:39)

No, it's oranges, pears and bananas.

[Amelia] (7:39 - 7:40)

Yeah, right. Complicated.

[Frank] (7:41 - 7:45)

You've got a water cylinder with a heat pump sitting on top. They're the most common.

[Amelia] (7:45 - 7:45)

Yes.

[Frank] (7:46 - 8:08)

Then you've got the ones with the cylinder and a separate heat pump unit next to it. And they all vary in how they operate. Their warranties are wildly different.

That's the thing that really got me. 

[Amelia]

Are they good? 

[Frank]

No, because one will tell you, oh, three years on the install, one on the electronics, 15 on the tank and all this. And it's like, oh, come on.

[Amelia] (8:08 - 8:09)

That's annoying.

[Frank] (8:09 - 8:24)

Oh, tell me about it. And the price variations were massive. Like, I'm talking, you know, three and a half thousand all the way up to about 8,000, not including the install.

And this is the thing I didn't realise. The install cost of these are a lot more.

[Amelia] (8:25 - 8:25)

Okay.

[Frank] (8:25 - 8:48)

I don't know why, but it's just the research. So they are a seriously good, there's lots of seriously good units out there. But there's not a huge amount of information saying which are the better ones, better quality and all that.

So I'll be honest with you, I went on to Choice Magazine, gave me a few ideas there as well. But I looked at the ducks guts ones, which are the ones, separate hot water cylinder, separate unit.

[Amelia] (8:49 - 8:49)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:49 - 8:56)

But then I looked at, well, the cost of that plus the install, I'm getting close to $10,000. What's my payback period? How much savings am I going to have?

[Amelia] (8:57 - 8:58)

Yeah. Is it actually worth it?

[Frank] (8:59 - 9:02)

Yeah, exactly. But some of the payback periods were getting up to like 12, 13 years.

[Amelia] (9:03 - 9:04)

That's a long time to wait.

[Frank] (9:05 - 9:06)

Yeah. Yeah. Wait for your hot water.

[Amelia] (9:07 - 9:08)

To get your money back. Yeah.

[Frank] (9:08 - 9:22)

So then I started mucking around. This is what's led me down to the rabbit hole in a few things. And that's where that single standalone hot water cylinder with a controller, that's where it got to because that's not a bad option.

[Amelia] (9:22 - 9:23)

Yeah.

[Frank] (9:23 - 9:34)

What's cool as well is say if you go for a hot water system with a heat pump on top, then you also connect that with your solar.

[Amelia] (9:34 - 9:35)

Okay.

[Frank] (9:35 - 10:31)

To run it. And it doesn't cost a huge amount to run, but it can run at a great efficiency. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

And still saves you money. 

[Amelia]

Oh, that's good. 

[Frank]

Because automatically they're cheaper to run because of the reverse cycle.

We call them heat pumps, but reverse cycle systems on them. But if something goes wrong, it's expensive to fix. So the heat pumps have to be a real serious consideration and you've got to do a lot of research to see which are the quality ones.

And the service agents. Are there service agents within your state that can fix the heat pump and the hot water? Because it's going to be the heat pump unit on top.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

The reverse cycle. That's the thing that's going to kind of crap itself.

So you're going to save money on how it runs. If you connect it to your solar, it's going to run even better. 

 [Amelia]

Exactly.

[Frank]

And you've got to look at your return on investment. And again, I personally looked at a unit that was about $3,500 and we're looking at about $3,000 install. So you're in for about $6,500.

[Amelia] (10:32 - 10:32)

Okay.

[Frank] (10:32 - 10:45)

So then you put a controller on there as well. There's another $1,000 to $1,500. Takes a little bit to pay that back.

But potentially you could do it quicker because it's cheaper to run it and you're using solar to run it more. Rather mains power.

[Amelia] (10:45 - 10:46)

Not a bad system.

[Frank] (10:47 - 11:23)

It is. But it all comes back with payback periods. I also mentioned one with timers and using off peak controllers.

But there's also another one where you can do timers and you work with the off peak as well. So that's another simple way of doing it. It's a lot simpler to run. It just runs on a timer. So switches on where the power it uses. 

[Amelia]

Okay.

[Frank]

Now, the one thing I didn't do was research if you've got PV, solar on the roof and you've got a battery and then your hot water cylinder, whether it's a normal tank or whether it's a heat pump one, because then you've got the stored energy to then run it.

[Amelia] (11:23 - 11:24)

Oh, from the battery.

[Frank] (11:25 - 11:25)

The battery.

[Amelia] (11:25 - 11:26)

Yeah.

[Frank] (11:26 - 11:29)

That's the one thing when I was doing this, I didn't check that out.

[Amelia] (11:29 - 11:38)

Yeah. And I think at the moment the government actually offering some incentives for having battery and solar and stuff in your home.

[Frank] (11:38 - 11:59)

I'll try to do it without rebates, just looking what is the raw cost of these things. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

If you can get rebates on these things, well done.

So you really got to work on what's your payback period on these things. Don't just go in blindly. Who's the service agent?

Cost of install, because they are expensive to install. And the reliability, what's their warranties?

[Amelia] (12:00 - 12:02)

Yeah. And the support that you get from that.

[Frank] (12:02 - 12:16)

Yeah, very much so. Some come with fantastic apps so you can see your energy usage, all that type of stuff too, which was really interesting. May make you feel better seeing that if you're that type of person.

[Amelia]

Some people love that, some people…

[Frank]

Yeah, true.

[Amelia] (12:16 - 12:17)

Not interested.

[Frank] (12:18 - 12:44)

Yeah. The other thing you need to consider with this, so we're talking all about the units, but also where you actually locate it. So where do you put the cylinder?

How long are the pipe runs? Actually has a bearing on how well it works. So I know for my personal house that I've built that I'm living in right now, I'm going to build a new one.

Well, it's actually just started. The hot water cylinder was three rooms away from my ensuite, but it's in the laundry and it's close to the other bathroom and close to the kitchen sink.

[Amelia] (12:44 - 12:45)

Yes.

[Frank] (12:45 - 12:50)

Works perfect. 

[Amelia]

Okay. Heats up quick. 

[Frank]

Yeah, it can take a little while to get to my ensuite.

[Amelia] (12:51 - 12:52)

Yeah, yeah.

[Frank] (12:52 - 12:57)

So these are the other things you've got to consider. If you've got a big house, you might have to look and put two tanks in.

[Amelia] (12:57 - 12:58)

Yes.

[Frank] (12:59 - 13:03)

Funnily enough though, you're paying for two tanks and twice as much water heating.

[Amelia] (13:04 - 13:07)

Yeah, that's right. That's more power and more of everything.

[Frank] (13:07 - 13:13)

More of everything. So also with the pipe length, are your pipes insulated?

[Amelia] (13:13 - 13:16)

Most new houses would have insulated pipes, surely.

[Frank] (13:16 - 13:17)

You'd think so.

[Amelia] (13:17 - 13:17)

Yeah.

[Frank] (13:18 - 13:52)

Yes. But if you're renovating, that's a good way to save money, especially they reckon in the first five or six metres of the hot water pipe. That's the research I saw is get it lagged.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Not too many bends and turns if it can be helped, but obviously that's just going to be what it's going to be. We design a lot of houses and to be fair, the hot water cylinder is usually going outside as well.

So locating that is really important. Now, the other thing you've got to consider with heat pumps, there's a bit of noise. Not a huge amount. I wouldn't necessarily put it near a bedroom.

[Amelia] (13:53 - 13:55)

Yeah, okay. Bit of a hum.

[Frank] (13:55 - 13:56)

Bit of a hum.

[Amelia] (13:56 - 13:56)

Yeah.

[Frank] (13:56 - 14:36)

So you've got to consider those things as well. Renovation, these are all still relevant if you're doing a reno, if you're going to be in a house for a long term. Choosing one to suit that, you're going to get value for money, you're going to get a return on your investment.

And to be fair, when people see it, they're going to think, hey, this house has been well thought out if you've got heat pump, hot water. I certainly know the government is using a lot more solar hot water on their housing in Tasmania. Yep.

Oh, here's another thing. When it comes to using heat pump hot water cylinders, make sure it can generate hot water down to like minus five. We don't necessarily get to minus five, but you want this thing to operate even when it gets cold.

[Amelia] (14:37 - 14:37)

Oh, exactly.

[Frank] (14:38 - 14:40)

Sounds weird, doesn't it, saying that?

[Amelia] (14:40 - 14:46)

So are you saying that there are systems that don't go below like, say, zero or something like that?

[Frank] (14:46 - 14:50)

Well, I don't know the actual number, but sometimes once you get there, you've only got a threshold to a point.

[Amelia] (14:51 - 14:52)

Interesting.

[Frank] (14:52 - 14:57)

That's why you've got to make sure it works within the range of the temperature of your area.

[Amelia] (14:57 - 15:01)

And we're climate zone seven here, which is, you know, cool.

[Frank] (15:01 - 15:05)

Yep. But think about if you're up in an alpine area, what are you going to need there?

[Amelia] (15:06 - 15:07)

Well, that's right.

[Frank] (15:07 - 15:09)

It's going to work harder, doesn't it?

[Amelia] (15:09 - 15:10)

It will, yeah.

[Frank] (15:10 - 15:25)

So you've got to really look at a whole of life value of this. So we spoke about installation costs, likely running costs. Here's another thing, teenagers.

Wouldn't it be nice to put a timer on the hot water? Once it gets past time, it shuts off the hot water.

[Amelia] (15:25 - 15:28)

I don't think your teenagers would be very happy about that.

[Frank] (15:29 - 15:41)

Just tell them. Oh, yes. It's like long showers costing you heaps of money.

[Amelia] (15:41 - 15:41)

Yeah.

[Frank] (15:41 - 15:56)

Especially when they drain the tank. How much extra does a better system cost you? You know, and this is part of you doing that research.

And there's specialists around that have really good quality hot water systems. You need to look at it. Same with solar ones, which we're not including in this discussion.

[Amelia] (15:56 - 15:57)

Yep.

[Frank] (15:57 - 16:11)

That one I found very hard to navigate because of the variety of them and the difference in costs and complexity of them. And when you actually do the research, you can't find clear winners in that space.

[Amelia] (16:11 - 16:12)

Really?

[Frank] (16:13 - 16:14)

Yeah, yeah.

[Amelia] (16:14 - 16:20)

Is there any difference between, say, retrofitting as opposed to putting it into a brand-new house?

[Frank] (16:21 - 16:30)

I believe a brand-new house is always going to be better. There is an advantage because you can run the pipes properly, the insulation properly. In an old house, the pipes may not be lagged properly.

[Amelia] (16:31 - 16:31)

Yep.

[Frank] (16:31 - 16:35)

You're dealing with older stuff. You're limited with locations, limited where the power is.

[Amelia] (16:36 - 16:37)

Yeah, that's true.

[Frank] (16:37 - 16:41)

Because there's a lot of redo if you change the location. Sometimes you're stuck. You're going to have to.

[Amelia] (16:42 - 16:42)

Yes.

[Frank] (16:42 - 17:05)

A lot of times we put them outside because sometimes when they fail, and fail badly can make a bit of a mess, even though there's a drain in the bottom of a tundish. That's a decision you've got to make as well. A heat pump, like I said, costs a lot more than a standard cylinder, but, again, could be a good thing for you.

It also depends how you operate in your home. Now, I haven't mentioned gas either.

[Amelia] (17:06 - 17:07)

Oh, yeah, gas, hot water.

[Frank] (17:08 - 17:12)

Because it's generally here in Tassie it's not very popular because of the price of our electricity.

[Amelia] (17:12 - 17:13)

Yes.

[Frank] (17:13 - 17:21)

I know some people have had it, some rave it, some hate it. On the mainland, on the Big Island, you guys have got a lot more options over there.

[Amelia] (17:22 - 17:24)

So many more service providers as well.

[Frank] (17:24 - 17:29)

Well, this is exactly right. But also we're lucky with our renewable energy as well.

[Amelia] (17:30 - 17:31)

We are, yes.

[Frank] (17:32 - 17:36)

So that's just a fact we've got renewable energy. Why would you switch to gas?

[Amelia] (17:36 - 17:36)

Very true.

[Frank] (17:36 - 18:13)

Nothing wrong with gas. Gas is still a very good product, but it may not be as efficient and cost effective. So, key message with us going through this, efficiency doesn't always mean economical because of the payback period.

Premium doesn't always mean smarter. As I mentioned, you can just get the old hot water cylinder, get switches and systems to electronically control it with your solar system. And the simple system doesn't always mean a poor system now.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Because we can do better control systems on so many items now. I didn't even know this stuff was available.

And I found about five different brands that can do this stuff.

[Amelia] (18:13 - 18:14)

Oh, wow.

[Frank] (18:14 - 18:15)

So, yes, very cool.

[Amelia] (18:16 - 18:23)

It's interesting too how things have changed over the years as well. Like we took out a header tank in our ceiling.

[Frank] (18:23 - 18:24)

Yes, really. The copper header tank.

[Amelia] (18:24 - 18:31)

The copper header tank. So, I mean, imagine if that failed. That would have been catastrophic.

[Frank] (18:31 - 18:37)

They were pretty good. They were made pretty well, those copper tanks. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

And it was just an open tank, no lid on them.

[Amelia] (18:37 - 18:38)

That's right.

[Frank] (18:38 - 18:40)

It was just water sitting there to make sure you had enough pressure.

[Amelia] (18:41 - 18:48)

Exactly right. Yes. So, that was one of the first things we got rid of when we moved into our house because it's an older house.

[Frank] (18:48 - 19:02)

Yes. It makes a big difference. So, I suppose at the end of the day, don't just buy a hot water unit. Design a hot water system that suits your house budget and how long you're going to be in the house for.

[Amelia] (19:03 - 19:19)

Exactly right. And, I mean, I think it's good to put these sort of things at the forefront of when you are looking at designing or whether it's new or existing because it is one of those things that I feel like gets forgotten a lot or doesn't get a lot of consideration.

[Frank] (19:19 - 19:31)

Oh, I totally agree. And it's a bit like in Tasmania with our heating, and I think it's in a lot of places, where people automatically go for ducted air conditioning systems or, in our case, heat pump systems. Don't think about it.

[Amelia] (19:32 - 19:32)

Yes.

[Frank] (19:32 - 19:39)

Whatever they reckon. You know, paying $22,000, whatever it is. Yet, it may not be the most efficient system for you.

[Amelia] (19:39 - 19:40)

That's right.

[Frank] (19:40 - 19:46)

You know, and that's the really thing. People just blindly agree, oh, I've got ducted. Well, ducted’s not that efficient.

[Amelia] (19:46 - 19:49)

No, you're not a massive fan of it, are you?

[Frank] (19:49 - 20:09)

No, because I find a lot of them are over-specced. I remember I did a design for a friend of mine many, many years ago. We designed it for passive solar, and then they put this unit in.

It was mind-boggling how big it was. He was fine. He could afford it.

It wasn't an issue. But at the end of the day, they couldn't get this thing above 19 degrees without roasting themselves in the house.

[Amelia] (20:10 - 20:10)

Oh, really?

[Frank] (20:11 - 20:27)

Yeah, the house worked really well, but then the heating system went, you know, just took it to another level. It was over-specced, and it was a big outdoor unit. So I can't remember the kilowatts.

I remember back then, I was just looking at it, and I said, you're kidding me. That's what they told me to put in.

[Amelia] (20:28 - 20:28)

Wow.

[Frank] (20:28 - 20:29)

I think they just sold you, you know.

[Amelia] (20:30 - 20:31)

The most expensive or something.

[Frank] (20:31 - 20:33)

Well, not quite, but it was pretty up there.

[Amelia] (20:34 - 20:34)

Yeah.

[Frank] (20:34 - 20:53)

And there's some really good ducted systems, and we're going off on a tangent here, but ducted systems, Actron Air, which can really balance all the duct work really well. They're great. They're a really good system.

But I still believe in single units in a lot of rooms, or ceiling cassettes, wall cassettes, can actually are a lot more efficient.

[Amelia] (20:54 - 20:54)

Yeah, right.

[Frank] (20:54 - 20:57)

Because you're not losing it through your little flimsy plastiduct.

[Amelia] (20:57 - 20:58)

That's right. Yeah.

[Frank] (20:59 - 21:03)

Anyway, that comes down to all this efficiency. It's no different we're talking about the hot water, insulating the lines.

[Amelia] (21:04 - 21:04)

Yes.

[Frank] (21:04 - 21:09)

Reduce the heat loss through the copper or plastic, the poly lines.

[Amelia] (21:09 - 21:17)

I think that's really important here in Tassie, especially, you know, during the winter months where you can get pipes burst and stuff because they just get so cold.

[Frank] (21:17 - 21:29)

Yeah, it's usually the old stuff. The really old stuff freezes up and snaps. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

Yeah, it doesn't. It's not that common anymore. It's a bit like the early rehab water lines, which is the plastic stuff, where rats loved it.

[Amelia] (21:30 - 21:30)

Oh, really?

[Frank] (21:30 - 21:32)

Yeah, chewed through and then flood the house.

[Amelia] (21:32 - 21:33)

Oh, dear.

[Frank] (21:33 - 21:41)

Yeah, no longer a problem. But it's a lot faster than the old copper of putting it all together. Copper, they used to have to braise it all together.

[Amelia] (21:41 - 21:42)

Yes.

[Frank] (21:42 - 21:48)

So, again, this is where you're talking to plumbers, really good quality plumbers that can help you with this type of stuff.

[Amelia] (21:48 - 21:53)

Exactly. We might wrap it up there, folks. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

[Frank] (21:54 - 21:54)

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (22:03 - 22:07)

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.