E134. Windows and glazing for new homes (part 1)

Most homeowners will spend weeks agonising over kitchen benchtops and splashbacks, but only about ten minutes thinking about their windows. That's a costly oversight, because windows are the single weakest thermal point in your entire home, and getting them wrong can mean sweltering summers, icy winters, and heating bills that blow out for decades.

In this episode, Frank and Amelia unpack what actually separates a smart window decision from an expensive regret. He explains why "double glazed" doesn't mean what most people think, and how two windows carrying the exact same label can perform in completely different ways. You'll get the real difference between U-value and SHGC, and which of these numbers actually matters most in Tasmania's climate. 

Frank also reveals why European-style windows can cost four times more to install than standard Australian ones, and whether that premium is ever worth paying. Along the way, he runs through the trade-offs between aluminium, timber, UPVC and steel frames, and how orientation, eave design, and glass-to-floor ratios can turn your living area into free winter heating, or a summer fishbowl. He also shares the costly mistakes he sees again and again, from sizing windows without checking furniture placement to choosing purely on looks and ordering too late in the build.

Whether you're planning a new build or just want to understand why your current windows feel like ice blocks in winter, this episode will change the way you think about glass.

Subscribe to the Building Design Prime Time Podcast so you never miss an episode, with fresh building and design insights every week from the people love helping you make informed decsions about your building project! 

About us
Prime Design is a building design company locally owned and operated in Tasmania since 2004.  Our goal is to share as much valuable information as possible about the process of building design, extensions, and more. We will talk about a different topic each week. To suggest a topic you would like us to talk about contact us at info@primedesigntas.com.au

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts  do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company.  All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses,  or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E134. Windows and glazing for new homes

[INTRO] (0:09 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designer's perspective.

[Amelia] (0:26 - 0:42)

And welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. I'm your host, Amelia. And once again, we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:45)

Hey, Amelia. And welcome to our happy new financial year.

[Amelia] (0:45 - 0:47)

Yes, that's exactly right.

[Frank] (0:47 - 0:51)

You know, what an exciting time if you're a bean counter, an accountant. 

[Amelia] (0:51 - 0:53)

That's right, Yes, busy time.

[Frank] (0:53 - 0:58)

Well, they've had their crazy busy time and now we've come into, oh, I'm glad that's over.

[Amelia] (0:58 - 1:01)

I reckon. You're probably glad it's over too.

[Frank] (1:01 - 1:08)

I am a bit, yes. There's a bit to do to finish the end of year financials. So, yeah, it's good.

What are we doing?

[Amelia] (1:08 - 1:31)

Well, most people spend weeks choosing their kitchen or their splashback, but they probably only spend about, my guess is about 10 minutes, thinking about their windows. And windows affect heaps of stuff. They affect, you know, your comfort within your home, the amount of sun that can get in, all kinds of stuff.

So, I thought we could have a chat about that today.

[Frank] (1:31 - 1:33)

So, get clarity on windows?

[Amelia] (1:33 - 1:33)

Yeah.

[Frank] (1:34 - 1:35)

Did you like that?

[Amelia] (1:35 - 1:40)

Oh, that was so bad. Took me a second to pick it up there.

[Frank] (1:40 - 1:41)

Oh, no, gee, you're a bit slow today.

[Amelia] (1:41 - 1:42)

A bit slow, it is a Friday.

[Frank] (1:44 - 2:13)

So, yeah, we're talking about windows. Now, a lot of people do, in other ways, they think a lot about their windows and that's usually around the size, the views, how they can fit their furniture. Well, I certainly hope they do.

We certainly help our customers work that out too because, you know, we're the one with the bed, couch, views, all those types of things. But there's so much more to windows glazing the frames. And it's one of the most important decisions you'll make and I'm amazed how many people brush over it rather than just look at the size.

[Amelia] (2:13 - 2:14)

That's right.

[Frank] (2:15 - 3:12)

And that's okay, but if you could actually do the research and understand how these windows affect your house in thermal performance, collect sun, but also your comfort, how they let heat in. They're the weakest point of the whole building of letting heat out of the building, but they also let a lot of heat in if you could design it correctly with passive solar principles. So, lots and lots goes into it.

And as a designer, one of the key things that we look at is, where's north? Now, in Tasmania, we need to face all our living area facing north to get as much sun. We love the sun in there.

And you might be, hey, I need morning sun, afternoon sun. There's a debate, there's two different minds of thinking, you know, trains of thinking of that. And that is purely because during winter, the westerly sun is magnificent.

Yeah, it's great. But during summer, it's a horror show.

[Amelia] (3:12 - 3:14)

It is, it can be a bit too much.

[Frank] (3:15 - 3:21)

Way too much. And it doesn't take much glass to heat up your home in summer and it becomes unbearable.

[Amelia] (3:21 - 3:22)

Yes.

[Frank] (3:22 - 3:34)

So, I think we're going to talk about a couple of options. That's only one part of it. So, we're going to talk about the frames, types, your options, costs.

What's the difference?

[Amelia] (3:34 - 3:34)

Yes.

[Frank] (3:35 - 4:33)

So, we'll just go talk about that. So, with windows being your weakest thermal point, you really want to go for the best value windows that you can afford. Okay?

In Tasmania, we've got to meet six stars, okay? And under the National Construction Code, that's how we're going to do it. Victoria, New South Wales is seven.

I believe Queensland's on six still. I'm not sure. And because of our colder climate, we need to have double-glazed windows as a minimum from that thermal performance and not let the heat out. Now, you add that with your furnishings, your window furnishings. We'll talk about that a bit more later.

That has a bearing on it as well. But you need to work on this really early in your design. So, your designer will work through, hey, look at the shapes, the windows, the views, access, sliding doors.

I'm a huge fan of sliding doors. Bang for your buck, they're the best thing. Big glass, good view, and operable.

[Amelia] (4:33 - 4:33)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:34 - 4:58)

They're great. And with the fly screen, because we need the fly screen, so there's little annoying locals that like to pop in. So, fly screens are really, really important.

So, from that point of view, choosing the best value windows, rather than just choosing windows or what the builder recommends or what the designer recommends after they've done the thermal assessment, you need to go shopping. What does that frame look like? Because some look great and some look chunky and horrible.

[Amelia] (4:58 - 5:05)

Yes. Actually, I noticed when we, you and I had a look at a passive house. 

[Frank]

Yes.

[Amelia]

A few months ago.

[Frank] (5:05 - 5:06)

Yes.

[Amelia] (5:06 - 5:08)

And the windows are done a little bit differently.

[Frank] (5:08 - 5:12)

Those were definitely, they were a European window.

[Amelia] (5:12 - 5:20)

Yes. The framing, how it was all done was quite different to how you would look at just a standard window.

[Frank] (5:20 - 5:52)

Very much so. So, probably the biggest standout is the position of the glazing unit and the frame in relation to the wall frame. So, if you look at a lot of houses that are built in Australia, the actual glass, let's say brick veneer, good example, you've got a 90mm frame, you've got a cavity and then you've got the brick.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So, it ends up being a 240 thick wall. The glazing unit itself sits outside the frame, past the cavity and sits within the brick.

So, it sits outside the insulated line of the frame.

[Amelia] (5:52 - 5:53)

Okay.

[Frank] (5:54 - 5:59)

The way these European windows are, they are inside the frame. So, nothing comes outside that 90mm.

[Amelia] (6:00 - 6:00)

That makes sense.

[Frank] (6:01 - 6:34)

Right, because there's this insulated panel. With the Australian way of doing it with brick veneer and even with the lightweight claddings, we stick the glass out and that means you reduce the amount of flashings you have to put around. So, if you've got a cement sheet, you've still got a level of flashing or the cladding tucks into the frame.

You've got a flashing over the top because everything else has a flashing over the top of the head of the window. With these European style windows, and they're usually UPVC or timber but with triple glazing, beautiful windows. They are stunning.

But then you spend so much money to install them.

[Amelia] (6:35 - 6:38)

Yes, and I know you looked into this yourself for your place.

[Frank] (6:38 - 7:00)

Yeah, and I got a lot of information, spoke to a number of builders in Tasmania that do passive homes and what they said, it will cost four times as much to install these windows than your normal one because it sits in the frame. So, you've still got a cavity, you've got a gap to either your lightweight cladding or your brick and you've got to put this flashing in. And to make the flashing look really good, you've got to spend a lot of time and get it folded just right, neat as...

[Amelia] (7:00 - 7:01)

The finish.

[Frank] (7:01 - 7:02)

The finish.

[Amelia] (7:02 - 7:03)

Yeah, okay.

[Frank] (7:03 - 7:12)

And I saw one gentleman took me around to a house in Hobart while they were building it and it was beautiful work. It really was. But the cost.

[Amelia] (7:13 - 7:13)

Yeah.

[Frank] (7:13 - 7:30)

Wow. And you can see the cost. As a designer, you go look at the effort they've gone into and the level of detail and make it watertight, magnificent.

This is what you're paying for. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Top end stuff. If you go for the normal way we do everything in Australia, it's far cheaper. But it's not as thermally efficient.

[Amelia] (7:31 - 7:31)

That's right.

[Frank] (7:32 - 7:39)

And this is what we're just talking about. You've got the different values of all these, not just pure cost, but what is the value proposition to your house?

[Amelia] (7:39 - 7:43)

It's like what we were talking about with hot water systems.

[Frank] (7:43 - 7:43)

Yep.

[Amelia] (7:43 - 7:56)

You've got to weigh up your return on investment. Exactly right. Are you going to get the return out of paying four times as much for those windows?

Or can you find a happy medium where you get a bit of...

[Frank] (7:56 - 8:17)

You might go for a double glazed unit that might be thermally broken. But you might find you haven't got that much glass because there's also glass area to floor area ratio. There's a ratio that works and the NCC works on that as well.

But then you've got the software that they use to do the calculations with the Nathers.

[Amelia] (8:17 - 8:18)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:18 - 9:05)

Which is the basis, which the CSIRO engine through Nathers supplies the engine to all the software. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

And that keeps getting tweaked and adjusted as more research goes into it.

But it appears that it favours your average home. As soon as you do something complex or custom or large, it fights you. So then you've got to go a different route to get the full value of it.

But look, talking about the glass, there's so many brands out there. You just hop online and there's just so many different brands, which one to choose. So then you've got to look at the quality.

Who makes it? Is it made locally? Do you have to import it in?

I've always found it better if you've got a local glazier who manufactures their own windows, then you can talk to them and you can literally talk to them. What's the best value?

[Amelia] (9:07 - 9:17)

So I don't want to get too hung up on the technical aspects of windows and glazing, but there are certain values that are better than others and they rate them.

[Frank] (9:17 - 9:31)

Yes, the WURS rating for windows. So these WURS ratings, which has to be done for all glazing in Australia. So you can't just bring in certain windows from other countries without the WURS rating and certified in Australia.

[Amelia] (9:32 - 9:32)

Okay.

[Frank] (9:32 - 9:51)

So windows also performance. They are measured. You'll see a U value, which is a U and a number behind it.

So this measures how much heat passes through the window. The lower the U value, the better the window will keep heat during winter and heat out during summer.

[Amelia] (9:51 - 9:54)

So what's a good number and what's a bad number?

[Frank] (9:54 - 10:49)

The on average that we look at for your normal double glazed, depending on the frames, it's a combined thing too. But as I understand it, you go anywhere between four to high threes is average. I've seen single glazing make that too.

[Amelia]

Really? 

[Frank]

Yeah. So there's certain manufacturers can do really good things with single glazing.

But most of the time here in Tasmania, we'll just go straight to double glazed because we know it works simple. To get to the other end, and I'll use the European style triple glazed UPVC windows that seal like you wouldn't believe and just very well built. They get a U value down to 1.5. 

[Amelia]

Wow.

[Frank]

So there's a big difference in numbers there. So then you've got the other part, which is the SHGC, which is the Solar Heat Gain Coefficient, which measures how much sun heat comes through the glass. The higher the SHGC lets more solar warmth in.

[Amelia] (10:50 - 10:50)

Okay.

[Frank] (10:52 - 10:53)

Lower blocks more sun.

[Amelia] (10:55 - 10:55)

Interesting.

[Frank] (10:56 - 10:56)

Yeah.

[Amelia] (10:57 - 10:57)

Okay.

[Frank] (10:58 - 11:06)

So in Tassie, cold climate, you want to go low U value for the insulation, but not always the lowest SHGC.

[Amelia] (11:06 - 11:09)

Wouldn't that affect the size of the window too though? 

[Frank]

Of course. 

[Amelia]

Yeah.

[Frank] (11:09 - 11:16)

Yeah. So the people have far better knowledge of this and we employ them, and this is the thermal assessors.

[Amelia] (11:16 - 11:18)

Yes. We've spoken with Toby before.

[Frank] (11:19 - 11:56)

Toby, yeah. And we'll have to get him back and a few other guys back as well and talk about that in more detail. But when you go choose these frames, you've got to look at the best value.

Because if you look at these numbers, work with your designer, talk to the builder, how easy they put in and choosing the right windows. You know, even like you're looking, I want to go for a bifold door. Well, that's great.

They're really expensive, but they can be great double glazed and they may be thermally broken. There's another option. There's all these different choices.

You know, AWS, they had the Magnum series frames and they're just sexy square aluminium, beautifully designed frames, you know, but you pay for the quality.

[Amelia] (11:56 - 11:57)

Yes.

[Frank] (11:57 - 12:16)

So there's lots and lots available on there. And to you, it might be the look, it might be the performance, it might be how they operate too. Because how smooth they are, how well they operate, positions of awning, sliding, double hung, casement, hopper style, which is still awning but flipped the other way.

[Amelia] (12:17 - 12:17)

Oh, okay.

[Frank] (12:17 - 12:24)

Yeah, you know, there's all these different types. So it is understanding what you're getting for your money.

[Amelia] (12:25 - 12:26)

Now, if you don't care, that's fine.

[Frank] (12:26 - 12:27)

A lot of people don't care.

[Amelia] (12:27 - 12:29)

If you care about thermal performance.

[Frank] (12:29 - 12:31)

Then you definitely get into it.

[Amelia] (12:31 - 12:38)

And to be fair, you still have to meet a minimum standard. So your designer will be able to help you with that side of it anyway.

[Frank] (12:39 - 12:46)

And it's fair to say if we're working with a building company, they have their preferred supplier. So you can go see the preferred supplier, what options have you got.

[Amelia] (12:46 - 12:46)

Yeah.

[Frank] (12:46 - 12:59)

So we've already explained a little bit about the different frames, the U value, the SHGC, but now the actual frames themselves, there's a few options. Obviously the most popular one is aluminium.

[Amelia] (12:59 - 12:59)

Yes.

[Frank] (13:00 - 13:29)

Powder coated. I mean, it lasts so long. Maintenance is very limited.

And it's the most common, most affordable product. But…

[Amelia]

Here's the but.

[Frank]

Heat or cold travel through it beautifully. It's aluminium. 

[Amelia]

Of course.

[Frank]

So I have a house here, I've got double glazing, and I've got some really cold nights. I've got condensation on the inside of my frame. And I can feel the cold off my frame.

Yeah, that's like when we have a really cold day, minus two, minus three.

[Amelia] (13:30 - 13:30)

Yes.

[Frank] (13:30 - 13:37)

And then I can feel the cold off the frame. But the glass is fine. Interestingly, when you go to the tropics, go to Bali, it's the other way around.

[Amelia] (13:37 - 13:38)

It would be.

[Frank] (13:38 - 14:03)

It's the other way around. So you try and get the room cool and it's hot outside. So the other one is timber frames.

Beautiful. Love it. Timber is magnificent thermal performance, higher maintenance and higher cost.

There's also some that you can get with timber and they put an aluminium over the top on the exterior. So that helps with the maintenance and preservation of the timber.

[Amelia] (14:03 - 14:05)

Oh, I've never heard of that before.

[Frank] (14:05 - 14:19)

Yeah, that's cool. UPVC, wonderful thermal performance, low maintenance. The only downside I've seen on some that I've seen after a number of years been in the Tasmanian environment where they can get a little bit chalky.

[Amelia] (14:19 - 14:19)

Oh, yes.

[Frank] (14:19 - 14:39)

Because they're a natural finish. But I've also seen where they had coatings and stuff put on as well. So also I've seen UPVC with the aluminium as well so you can get the different colours.

So there's a few variations of those as well. So those are your main ones that you can get. I remember years ago, someone tried fiberglass window frames.

[Amelia]

Really? 

[Frank]

Seriously.

[Amelia] (14:40 - 14:44)

They'd be lightweight. Well, I guess the glass would still be heavy, but yeah.

[Frank] (14:44 - 15:29)

But like, yeah, I haven't seen them. I'm not sure what actually happened. Steel framed, that pops up quite popular. Useless. 

[Amelia]

I was going to say that would be cold, wouldn't it?

[Frank]

Yeah, well, there's lots of old places here in Tassie that have got old steel framed windows. But the problem with steel framed windows, they conduct the heat and cold really bad and virtually impossible to get a decent rating on them for the worse. Then you've got the different types of frames.

You've got thermal break. So what does that mean? Say aluminium is the greatest example that they use.

It's a two-piece frame and it could be plastic, it could be rubber, heavy rubber, whatever, and it joins the two aluminium pieces, but heat and cold cannot travel through it.

[Amelia] (15:29 - 15:31)

OK, so the glass goes in between.

[Frank] (15:31 - 15:32)

Glass goes in between.

[Amelia] (15:32 - 15:33)

You've got the thermal break, then your frame?

[Frank] (15:34 - 15:52)

Yeah, pretty much. So it stops the heat going through the glazing, the frame, not glazing, through the frame. And we've just spoken about the different types of glazing types, single, double, triple, and then you've got different coatings, low E coatings, argon gas filled in the cavity.

[Amelia] (15:53 - 15:53)

Oh.

[Frank] (15:53 - 16:10)

Yep, there's all sorts of stuff. Then you've got to look at how good the seals are on the windows. That's another part.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So if they open, they close, but how good are the seals on them? And in Australia, if you're in a bushfire zone, those seals have to meet the bushfire rating.

[Amelia] (16:11 - 16:13)

Yeah, that's a really good point.

[Frank] (16:13 - 16:17)

And the glass. And if you get into bow 19 above, it's got to be toughened glass.

[Amelia] (16:18 - 16:18)

Really?

[Frank] (16:18 - 16:36)

Yep. So there again, a little bit of extra cost. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

So the next part is when you're doing windows, orientation, sizing. Size matters when it comes to glass. 

[Amelia]

It does.

[Frank]

Because we've got such beautiful views here and we don't, every piece of land that we have doesn't seem to be flat.

[Amelia] (16:37 - 16:38)

Very true.

[Frank] (16:38 - 16:46)

So generally, you can get a nice view. So then if you've got a nice view, you want to get the glass and look at it.

[Amelia] (16:46 - 17:04)

I feel like there was a period, 10 plus years ago now, where all of these so-called modern houses all had these tiny little piddly windows. And it absolutely annoyed me to no end. Why would you have no natural light coming into your house?

[Frank] (17:05 - 17:06)

Yeah, I can't answer that one.

[Amelia] (17:06 - 17:14)

But do you remember that? There was like a phase. It just felt like all of these modern houses had tiny windows.

[Frank]

Or slits 

[Amelia]

and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

[Frank] (17:14 - 17:49)

And that's true. But it was a bit like turn of the century. All the houses just had standardised double hung windows and all that.

And they had very little light coming into them. You might have a bay window, but it was facing the wrong way. But same thing.

Dark, cold. Because I went from a, my very first house was made in 1910. And same thing.

No insulation, all the rest of it. And then we built, we went into rental, which was a 70s brick veneer, single glazed. And then we built our house.

Solar orientation, passive solar design, double glazed windows, what we could afford.

[Amelia] (17:50 - 17:51)

You must have felt the difference.

[Frank] (17:51 - 17:53)

I felt the difference when I was building it.

[Amelia] (17:53 - 17:54)

Yeah.

[Frank] (17:54 - 17:56)

It was warmer than our house.

[Amelia] (17:56 - 17:56)

Yeah.

[Frank] (17:56 - 18:21)

That we were renting. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

And that was just while we were building it.

It just naturally was warmer. So that's the difference. And this is where we're going to talk about orientation.

Because passive solar strategy is fair dinkum. And I'd question any designer that doesn't do this. That you orientate your living area to be able to capture as much sun as possible to get free heat in Tasmania.

Because our climate, we need it.

[Amelia] (18:22 - 18:23)

Oh, definitely.

[Frank] (18:24 - 18:48)

I won't go into all the other things about passive solar strategies and things like that of thermal mass. That's a whole other topic. This is just purely getting the glass.

And then also looking at getting your eaves angles and overhang working well during summer and winter, designing around that. So then during summer, you don't have sunlight directly hitting the glass. And during winter, it does hit the glass and heats up your room.

[Amelia] (18:48 - 18:56)

So what about, for example, if you're on an exposed rural property, are there different specs that people should be asking for?

[Frank] (18:57 - 19:18)

Well, you mean, fully exposed. I'd still be aiming to get north all the glass as much as reasonable to get as much solar gain facing north. I'd have the same for the easterly.

You wouldn't have quite as much. West, I'd try and reduce to a minimum. And same with the south, I'd reduce that to a minimum so you don't get heat loss through the glass.

[Amelia] (19:18 - 19:19)

Okay.

[Frank] (19:19 - 19:58)

It's just little simple things there. In the western side, you have to have windows. I'd be putting verandas off the side or very large overhangs, but it won't stop that very late in the day sun penetrating during summer.

Orientation is very important. When you're in suburbia, that can be a bit more difficult too because depending where north is, maybe a house next door that blocks a bit of your sun. So very important.

And this comes down to positioning the house on the block as well and how the car comes in, how do you live, where is your alfresco, if you so choose, outdoor living, indoor living, all these things are considered. And there's nothing like living in a house that's sunny. We are drawn to sunlight.

[Amelia] (19:58 - 19:59)

Oh, I couldn't agree more.

[Frank] (20:00 - 21:12)

You know, when people talk about day beds and all that in the sun, yep, totally get it. Then you can also have too much glass. Then it's inefficient.

[Amelia]

Yes, it's like a big fishbowl. 

[Frank]

Yeah, it can do. And there's plenty of examples of beautiful architectural buildings and they are fishbowls.

Thermal performance, like they would have had to go on for a performance solution. That means you're doing all these complex calculations to prove that it meets the National Construction Code. But there's an energy trade-off with how much glass glazing area to floor area ratio.

And this is where the software comes in. But then you may have to go to a more expert level of assessment. And this is where specialist thermal assessors can really determine the performance of your house.

And even to the point where, and I've got this done on my house, it's actually getting an assessment done where they're also doing the energy usage. So then working out which rooms heat up, you know, heat up too much. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

So then you've got to spend money on cooling. And then work out the kilowatts per hour during winter and summer. So then from that point of view, you can do a cost analysis about to what type of glazing should I go?

What type of insulation should I go? Because it comes down to value for money.

[Amelia] (21:12 - 21:14)

And in different areas of the house.

[Frank] (21:14 - 21:17)

Yeah, exactly right. And everyone has a budget.

[Amelia] (21:18 - 21:18)

Oh, yeah.

[Frank] (21:18 - 21:48)

You know, and let's be fair, the cost of construction at the moment is off its head. And there's just no two ways about it. So you've really got to look at your value proposition.

And this is where not just the designer, but the thermal assessor becomes a big part of that design to get the best value possible. Now, if you want to go straight to Passive House, which is the top end of town, knock yourself out, great. You're going to pay a lot more for that.

You could just go for a high performance house. And we're planning some podcasts coming up to talk about those in more depth.

[Amelia] (21:48 - 21:48)

Yes.

[Frank] (21:50 - 22:06)

So we're now going to look at cost, timing, supply decisions. Windows typically cost a certain percentage of a budget. And sometimes people would rather have a nice benchtop or nice flooring as opposed to having good windows.

And they'll cut that and go back to the bare minimum.

[Amelia] (22:06 - 22:08)

Comes back to priorities at the end of the day.

[Frank] (22:08 - 22:45)

It does and comes down to what is valuable. You know, what do you value more? And I can't judge that for people.

You've got to meet a minimum regardless. How much is it going to cost you to go a little bit further? How much does it cost you to put more insulation in?

How much extra is it going to cost you to put in a higher quality window? 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

It's worth going through the exercise. Also, lead times. Windows often have a long lead time. So you need to get the stuff sorted before the design is finished.

And if you're working with a builder, he or her knows that I need to get this stuff ordered and locked in. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Because I remember one time during the GFC, the glazing could be waiting up to four or five months for your glazing.

[Amelia] (22:45 - 22:46)

Really?

[Frank] (22:46 - 22:47)

It was absolutely off its head.

[Amelia] (22:47 - 22:47)

Wow.

[Frank] (22:48 - 23:04)

Same with trusses and a whole bunch of stuff. And people got caught out, which was really tough. Ordering too late stalls the build.

Now, here's another tip. Organise the colours for your glazing for the frames as soon as practically possible.

[Amelia] (23:05 - 23:05)

Yes.

[Frank] (23:06 - 23:29)

Because if you don't, last minute, you're going to put it under pressure. So this is where we talk about choosing all your interior fit-out colours, exterior colours, all that. Get it sorted during the design process.

So supplier versus builder supplied window. Some builders prefer their own suppliers due to volume discount, which is not always to the client's interest. So you need to discuss that with the builder.

[Amelia] (23:29 - 23:35)

Obviously, project builders will have their own that they would use, that would be a standard.

[Frank] (23:35 - 24:38)

And I don't blame them because they're consistent, they know how they work, but also they get a reasonable discount on that, which then gets passed on to you. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So the top mistakes I find is that people choose for aesthetics alone without checking the performance rate.

They just take it for granted. Well, it's double glazed because not all double glazed is the same. 

[Amelia]

That's exactly right.

[Frank]

Not all thermal brakes are the same. Thermally broken windows are not all the same. So again, let's look at that.

And there's lots of options. It's very nice what you're able to get. So sizing the windows without considering the furniture placement, that's a pearler because I've seen that.

And nothing I've seen, you know, a lounge suite in front of a really nice window. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Just because of the way you've oriented TV, kitchen, entry, all that type of stuff.

And unspecifying the glazing to save money up front and paying for later on heating costs. Now, it might be okay now because power isn't that expensive, but who's to say in 10 or 15 years if you're going to build this? 

[Amelia]

It could cost more.

[Frank]

It could cost a lot more.

[Amelia] (24:38 - 24:38)

Yes.

[Frank] (24:39 - 24:43)

Now, in saying that, it could get offset by solar. So let's not get into that.

[Amelia] (24:44 - 24:44)

True, yes.

[Frank] (24:44 - 25:09)

We spoke about that with the hot water last time. So get into this, understand it. Also, the designers really help you understand how the glazing will look from the inside because most designers will have 3D software so you can see how it orientates inside the house.

They can place furniture. They can place all sorts of stuff where the TV sits. Here's an interesting point with TVs and windows.

[Amelia] (25:09 - 25:10)

Yes, the glare.

[Frank] (25:10 - 25:11)

The glare.

[Amelia] (25:11 - 25:11)

Yes.

[Frank] (25:11 - 25:14)

Plan your TV around where your windows are.

[Amelia] (25:14 - 25:15)

Yes.

[Frank] (25:15 - 25:20)

If you leave it to later, you're pretty ordinary. You've got to watch TV during the day with the curtains down.

[Amelia] (25:21 - 25:21)

Yes.

[Frank] (25:21 - 25:52)

The other thing to consider is grey float or tinting your windows. So I personally have done grey float, and that was to reduce glare and heat in certain parts of the house. But it can also reduce your effectiveness of the sun heating up your room as well.

So it's a compromise. Also, you might do it for privacy. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

Like you say, you could be at a fishbowl, and people from the street can see you in there, and you don't like it, but you still want to have the glass.

[Amelia] (25:52 - 25:52)

Yes.

[Frank] (25:52 - 25:54)

Now, just remember, at night, no good.

[Amelia] (25:55 - 25:55)

True.

[Frank] (25:55 - 26:16)

Lights on, everyone can see you. So it does have an effect on your winter warmth, but do it at the right level. It can work quite well for you, and that's something, again, you can talk to the glaziers about that.

[Frank]

So. 

[Amelia]

Take home points. 

[Frank]

Take home points.

[Frank]

Windows are a thermal and compliance decision, and not just an aesthetic one. But it can be aesthetic, as I said before. It could be very nice.

[Amelia] (26:17 - 26:19)

You've got to weigh up, I guess, all of it together.

[Frank] (26:20 - 26:21)

Value proposition.

[Amelia] (26:22 - 26:22)

Exactly.

[Frank] (26:23 - 26:37)

And don't forget, there's nothing stopping you getting the money shot window, that I like to call it. Your picture window, or you come through the front door, or you've got a nice view, and as soon as you open the door, you can see straight through the house and see the view, and go, oh, wow. 

[Amelia] (26:38 - 26:39)

Yes. Amazing.

[Frank] (26:39 - 26:51)

And that comes down to design and how things flow through the house. You know, we're fortunate here in Tasmania, we're like half the places in the valley, and you can potentially get some wonderful views.

[Amelia] (26:51 - 26:52)

Yes.

[Frank] (26:52 - 27:06)

Consider the frame material. Don't leave it to chance. Discuss this with the builder's glazier, or go talk to glazing companies.

We've got some great ones here in Tassie. Get it ordered early. Same with your colour.

Get it sorted early.

[Amelia] (27:07 - 27:07)

Yes.

[Frank] (27:07 - 27:09)

Because that can be one of the big delays.

[Amelia] (27:09 - 27:17)

And, I mean, you can get it done nice and early. You get some really beautiful 3Ds that you can organise with your designer.

[Frank] (27:17 - 27:48)

Oh, exactly. That's why we have all this expensive software, to be able to do that. And if you're also getting renders working with your colour consultant or interior decorator, all that type of stuff, that's where it really comes to its own.

And you can get some beautiful-looking renders that are pretty accurate. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So that can help you choose some of the windows.

It's funny. I'm just looking here at the wall. We've just got some new posters put up with some of the wonderful designs from the team.

They're all black. All monument. All the window frames.

[Amelia] (27:48 - 27:49)

The window frames. That's true

[Frank] (27:50 - 27:56)

That’s hilarious, you know, because that's very popular at the moment. Well, it has been for quite a while, what I'm saying. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

Yeah. It's just what it is right now.

[Amelia] (27:57 - 28:00)

Yes. Did you go monument on yours?

[Frank] (28:00 - 28:01)

Maybe.

[Amelia] (28:01 - 28:03)

Yeah, and I'm thinking the same on mine.

[Frank] (28:03 - 28:08)

But my house that I live in now that I did, it was in white.

[Amelia] (28:08 - 28:09)

Yes, mine are white too.

[Frank] (28:09 - 28:10)

With a grey float.

[Amelia] (28:11 - 28:12)

Oh, okay.

[Frank] (28:12 - 28:18)

Double glazed. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

And when I did, and also my front door was built the same way, and it was quite unusual at the time.

[Amelia] (28:19 - 28:19)

Okay.

[Frank] (28:19 - 28:23)

It's interesting because you talked, and all I did was talk to them and went through options.

[Amelia] (28:23 - 28:24)

Yes.

[Frank] (28:24 - 28:26)

And it didn't cost me a lot more.

[Amelia] (28:26 - 28:27)

Mm-hmm.

[Frank] (28:27 - 28:34)

So, and it still works. But just remember the colour you choose on the outside is generally the colour you have on the inside.

[Amelia] (28:34 - 28:35)

True, yes.

[Frank] (28:35 - 28:39)

So that's why stuff needs to be sorted real quick. So.

[Amelia] (28:39 - 28:40)

Wrap it up there.

[Frank] (28:41 - 28:45)

I think so. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

I don't think you've got much else on windows. There's a lot to go in them.

[Amelia] (28:45 - 28:49)

Yeah, there's heaps. And I mean, we could talk about it for another hour at least.

[Frank] (28:50 - 28:51)

And also think about how you're going to clean them.

[Amelia] (28:52 - 28:53)

And we didn't even talk about renovations.

[Frank] (28:54 - 28:55)

No, we'll do that next one.

[Amelia] (28:56 - 28:56)

Good idea.

[Frank] (28:56 - 28:58)

Hang on. Cleaning windows.

[Amelia] (28:58 - 28:59)

Yes.

[Frank] (28:59 - 29:00)

Two-storey homes.

[Amelia] (29:01 - 29:02)

Oh, yes. That's painful.

[Frank] (29:02 - 29:11)

Yeah, yeah. And I've done the same thing. And it makes it hard.

You've got to try and make this as easy as possible. Decks and things like that. Just be able to clean your windows inside out.

[Amelia] (29:12 - 29:12)

Yes.

[Frank] (29:12 - 29:18)

So consider that as well. Again, you work with your designer to work that out. But sometimes you don't have a choice. It is what it is.

[Amelia] (29:18 - 29:21)

Yes. Especially if you're on a steep side or something like that.

[Frank] (29:21 - 29:24)

Yeah, exactly. There's nothing like looking through a clear window.

[Amelia] (29:24 - 29:29)

Very true. What a great place to wrap up. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

[Frank] (29:29 - 29:31)

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (29:33 - 29:40)

You’re listening the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.