E135. Windows and glazing for renovations (part 2)

If your house has ever felt like it's wearing a jumper full of holes, this episode is for you. Amelia and Frank dig into part two of their windows and glazing series, this time turning their attention to renovations rather than new builds. They walk through the eras of Australian windows, from the huge steel-framed and timber sashes of the early 1900s through to the thin single-glazed aluminium sliders that took over in the 70s and 80s, and explain why so many of these older windows are quietly leaking your heating budget straight out the glass.

Frank shares real project stories, including a heritage timber replacement that went so smoothly you'd never know it had been touched, and a cautionary tale about a botched sill repair that looked like "a two-year-old did it." They cover when you can simply swap a window like-for-like without a permit, and when changing the size triggers a full structural and compliance process, plus a Tasmanian rule that catches a lot of renovators off guard where the rest of the house may need to be brought up to current code too.

There's also a good look at material choices, uPVC versus timber versus aluminium, importing windows from overseas, and why that stamped WERS rating matters more than people think. As always, it comes back to research, the right tradespeople, and understanding your payback period before you commit.

Subscribe so you don't miss an episode and to learn about windows and glazing for new builds be sure to listen to part 1 on the previous episode and tune in to any future episode of the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts  do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company.  All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses,  or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E135. Windows and glazing for renovations (part 2) 

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designers perspective. 

[Amelia]

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast. I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:43)

Happy Friday Amelia.

[Amelia] (0:44 - 0:45)

Happy Friday.

[Frank] (0:45 - 0:50)

I'm glad I made it to Friday. I was a bit crook during the week. Got the head cold middle of winter. Feeling sorry for myself.

[Amelia] (0:50 - 0:51)

But you're back.

[Frank] (0:51 - 0:51)

I'm back.

[Amelia] (0:51 - 0:53)

You came back for my birthday.

[Frank] (0:53 - 0:54)

Oh totally.

[Amelia] (0:54 - 0:55)

You had cake.

[Frank] (0:55 - 0:57)

Yes, that was very nice.

[Amelia] (0:57 - 0:58)

Thank you, yes.

[Frank] (0:58 - 1:00)

That went down really easy.

[Amelia] (1:00 - 1:01)

Well there's some more in the fridge.

[Frank] (1:02 - 1:03)

Happy days, we'll have that with a glass of wine.

[Amelia] (1:03 - 1:05)

Sounds good to me.

[Frank] (1:05 - 1:10)

All right, we're continuing with our glazing, windows and glazing part two.

[Amelia] (1:10 - 1:25)

Yes, so we ran out of time last week. We didn't get to talk about windows and glazing for renovations. So watch part one if you want to look at new homes, new builds and windows and glazing for that.

But this is part two and we're going to talk about renovations.

[Frank] (1:25 - 2:00)

So when you're renovating, extending and doing stuff to your home, unfortunately some of the old glazing is a bit tired, a bit thin. And not real efficient. So then the heat's just flying out your window and not real efficient.

And in colder climates, that's where you really pay for it. So we're going to talk a bit more about how, what, where we can actually upgrade your windows. So we're going to go through a couple of different things.

Immediately, the key things you've got to look at, why would you upgrade? And how would you upgrade? And what would you upgrade to?

[Amelia] (2:00 - 2:01)

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Frank] (2:02 - 2:19)

So let's just talk about houses from the 80s, 70s, 60s. They were, well, let's say starting at the aluminium, late 60s, 70s, 80s in Australia. Aluminium windows, anodized, generally not powder coated, single glaze, three mil glass, generally sliding.

[Amelia] (2:19 - 2:20)

Yes.

[Frank] (2:20 - 2:32)

You go before that, a combination. Yeah, they had lots of timber, solid hardwood timber windows with three mil plate glass on it. And huge windows, some of these things.

[Amelia] (2:32 - 2:34)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Frank] (2:34 - 3:09)

And then before that, a combination of timber, but steel framed windows were pretty popular there. And they're a shocker. Yeah.

And before that, they had timber windows or double hung type and even casement windows and stuff. So then when you get your house, you want to improve it. You want to live in there for a while and you want to improve the thermal efficiency and upgrading your windows.

Now, if you don't do this right, it really looks bad. So if you've got a Federation style house, beautiful bay window, and you put aluminium, single glazed windows replacing the old double hung.

[Amelia] (3:09 - 3:10)

Doesn't look good.

[Frank] (3:10 - 3:14)

Oh, I can't say it, but it looks so bad, really bad.

[Amelia] (3:15 - 3:19)

So are you saying that people, like they should go like for like or?

[Frank] (3:20 - 3:38)

Well, you can because you've got character. Windows are part of the character of the home. And as best you can and as your budget allows in older style, some would say heritage, but say Federation, post-war, all those types of homes and they had double hung windows and they were rattly.

They had no seals on them.

[Amelia] (3:38 - 3:39)

Yes.

[Frank] (3:39 - 3:51)

To upgrade them, you either replace the whole thing as you can get more modern timber frame double hung windows. And the trick is, is to be able to replace those because they've got all the weights in them inside.

[Amelia] (3:51 - 3:52)

Yes, yes.

[Frank] (3:52 - 4:02)

Where you got these new ones, which are far better, they don't have the weights in them, but you can also get double glazing with these as well. I think Steg Barrow, the guys do it with a Western Red Cedar frame.

[Amelia] (4:02 - 4:02)

Nice.

[Frank] (4:03 - 4:13)

Yeah. And the beautiful thing, it just, and you know where the skill is and with all the windows we're going to talk about, the skill is replacing the existing with new and you can barely tell the difference.

[Amelia] (4:13 - 4:13)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:14 - 4:15)

That, you know.

[Amelia] (4:15 - 4:16)

That's a skill.

[Frank] (4:16 - 4:19)

And this comes down to the glazier, comes down to the skill of the builder.

[Amelia] (4:20 - 4:20)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:20 - 4:28)

To be able to do pull out and install, replace, get your arcs and skirtings inside and out and get all the flashings in and it looks Mickey Mouse.

[Amelia] (4:28 - 4:35)

It must not always be the most cost-effective way. Aesthetically, yes, it probably looks really nice.

[Frank] (4:35 - 4:35)

Yes.

[Amelia] (4:36 - 4:40)

But half of these older homes, they don't have what you would consider standard sized windows.

[Frank] (4:41 - 4:45)

No, and that's unfortunate. And sometimes you've got to replace them because they've rotted out.

[Amelia] (4:46 - 4:48)

Oh, and that's completely fair. Yeah.

[Frank] (4:48 - 5:05)

You know, in some cases people bog them all up and repaint them and it might work just to keep the originality because replacing them is a massive cost. But I think if we look at houses from the 50s forward, they're easier to replace because timber framed, weatherboard, it's all timber.

[Amelia] (5:05 - 5:05)

Yes.

[Frank] (5:06 - 5:29)

So pulling it out, replacing, like for like, without tearing out the opening, you pull the window out and you put a replacement in and then get a tie in with the arcs, seal it up, get the flashings in. So you need the flashings outside as per the building code. It's not just about the building code, it's just freaking common sense.

They have flashings along the top so the water doesn't ingress in. You just don't want water going in because it rots out everything inside.

[Amelia] (5:30 - 5:34)

Okay. But what about if you want to change the size of your window?

[Frank] (5:35 - 6:03)

Yep. Well, in Tasmania, you change it, you require a permit. You need a building permit at some cost, sometimes maybe a planning permit.

[Amelia]

Is that because it's structural? 

[Frank]

Yes. So you make it wider.

You need to put a bigger lintel in. 

[Amelia]

Yes, makes sense. 

[Frank]

To hold up the roof and whatever's above it. A lot of cases we've done jobs where we're not changing the width but we're going down, i.e. putting a deck on the side of the house. We need to put a sliding door in. We'll just cut straight down and get a custom sliding door to fit that space.

[Amelia] (6:03 - 6:05)

Okay. And that's cost effective generally.

[Frank] (6:05 - 6:35)

It's very cost effective if you don't replace the lintel. Mucks around with the sill, how you insert it into the bottom part of the frame. Again, it needs to be flashed properly to ensure no water ingress.

But there are structural constraints because you've got the existing openings. It's nice and easy to do a replacement. As soon as you open it, it costs you money.

But it's probably worthwhile. You're doing a reno, you're going, yep, I need that window. I need that sliding door.

Kitchen's being moved. I need to change this. Well, then obviously you're going to have to do it.

[Amelia] (6:35 - 6:36)

Yes.

[Frank] (6:36 - 6:40)

And you're not going to know what you're going to find inside either, like a box of chocolates.

[Amelia] (6:41 - 6:42)

Really?

[Frank] (6:42 - 6:47)

Well, you open up the window and then you find, oh, the floor's rotted, the frame's rotted. There's been a leak in there.

[Amelia] (6:47 - 6:48)

Yeah, yeah.

[Frank] (6:49 - 7:00)

You get in there and fix it. And that doesn't matter what type of house this could happen. But also you've got to work at how it's going to work with your exterior cladding.

Is it brick? Is it weatherboard? Is it fibro cement sheet? Is it asbestos?

[Amelia] (7:01 - 7:03)

Yeah. Well, that's another thing you've got to consider.

[Frank] (7:03 - 7:12)

Yeah, all those things. Yeah. But we were talking about this before.

If it's a 60s red brick timber frame, oh, you know all about this. You've got one.

[Amelia] (7:12 - 7:13)

I've got one, yes.

[Frank] (7:13 - 7:17)

And they have ginormous big sheets of plate glass in them.

[Amelia] (7:17 - 7:22)

Huge. I know that because to get the size of the blinds was massive.

[Frank] (7:22 - 7:23)

Yeah, but they look amazing.

[Amelia] (7:24 - 7:25)

They do.

[Frank] (7:25 - 7:28)

And during winter, you get lots of sun in there, don't you? And it's nice and warm.

[Amelia] (7:28 - 7:33)

The house has never been mouldy in its entire life because it just gets so much natural light.

[Frank] (7:33 - 7:48)

But also you've kept all the vents in the wall. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Yeah, so all these 60s red bricks.

And you see quite a few of the older places, they have vents. And that is just directly into the cavity and the air flows through. That's why I can never keep the bloody things warm because the heat's just flying everywhere.

[Amelia] (7:48 - 7:48)

Yep.

[Frank] (7:49 - 8:17)

And out the holes. So we're going to have a really good jumper and thermals. 

[Amelia]

Good heating.

[Frank]

Good heating that goes out through the holes. 

[Amelia]

True, yes. 

[Frank]

So replacing your windows to a higher performing windows, you will notice a difference within the performance, thermal performance of the house.

So it's a decision you need to make whether you need to upgrade or not. Because it's a big decision. And if you like thermal comfort, nice, toasty, warm house, well you're kind of going to have to.

[Amelia] (8:18 - 8:18)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:19 - 8:27)

The other thing is obviously insulation to the ceiling, the floor. The walls are your toughest to try and insulate. That's really, really hard.

[Amelia] (8:27 - 8:32)

Especially if it's existing. Like how do you redo that? Do you have to pull everything off?

[Frank] (8:32 - 8:50)

Quite possibly. There are other ways where they drill holes in the pump insulation. But you've got to be careful on the wiring, chemical reactions, all sorts of stuff.

So there are experts in this field that can help you with that. But insulation is your friend to make your house nice and toasty warm. But then your windows are a big thing as well.

[Amelia] (8:50 - 8:50)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:51 - 8:57)

Because the windows are a dirty great hole through your insulation. So they don't have very good R value.

[Amelia] (8:58 - 9:02)

They don't. I guess that's where you lose the majority of your heating.

[Frank] (9:03 - 9:21)

Yeah, that's exactly right. So you've also got to consider a few things. What type of frame do you have?

I've got timber frame. What condition are they in? You have steel frames.

And then you've got aging aluminium. The older aluminium stuff. Now, just a thing on the timber and the steel frames. The putties. They can have asbestos in them.

[Amelia] (9:21 - 9:24)

Oh, on the older houses? 
 
 

[Frank]

Yep. 

[Amelia]

Yeah, right.

[Frank] (9:25 - 10:29)

So be aware of that. All the glaziers and the builders are aware of that. And it's not hard to deal with. Because you want to bring the whole unit out as one piece. You don't go breaking stuff. That's foolish. You want to bring it as one piece. And then you install the new window. Sounds simple, doesn't it?

[Amelia]

You would think so. 

[Frank]

But there's a lot more to it. And I was just talking to a builder, Adam from Finer Homes.

He was telling me about a replacement of an 80s style house. Where they had all beautiful timber windows. But they're all custom shapes and weird.

And they planned the window replacement so well. The glazier went up there like three times to double check. Double or triple check, actually. All the sizing. But it all went well. They planned how to do the architraves.

How to do all the flashings. And they were able to pull it out. Install. Had all the timber there on site. Machined everything. Cut it. And it all fitted beautifully. A lot of planning goes in. Unlike what happened to my brother in his first home. Where he had a window replaced. They didn't get it quite right. They slapped a piece of tree to pine timber at the bottom of it.

At the sill. And it looks like a two-year-old did it.

[Amelia] (10:29 - 10:32)

That would be a dirty, great, big, ugly thing.

[Frank] (10:32 - 10:33)

Yep, it was.

[Amelia] (10:34 - 10:35)

Oh no.

[Frank] (10:35 - 10:40)

Yep, yep. And if they need to use silicone, you've got the wrong people.

[Amelia] (10:41 - 10:48)

Oh yes. Yes, what is it? The TikTok inspector guy? He always, he has a saying for silicone.

[Frank] (10:48 - 10:49)

He does?

[Amelia] (10:49 - 10:51)

Yeah, I can't remember what it is. But um.

[Frank] (10:52 - 10:52)

Non compliant.

[Amelia] (10:52 - 10:54)

Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one.

[Frank] (10:55 - 10:58)

I'd so love to have a chat to him. That would be hilarious.

[Amelia] (10:58 - 11:01)

Yes, if he's listening, please contact us.

[Frank] (11:01 - 11:09)

Because we need to educate everyone, you know, of all these things. Because if the drawing's wrong, gets built wrong, or just gets built wrong, you're buying a disaster.

[Amelia] (11:09 - 11:09)

Yes.

[Frank] (11:10 - 11:12)

The compliance trap.

[Amelia] (11:12 - 11:14)

Yes, that's a whole other topic.

[Frank] (11:14 - 11:31)

Yes. So, just be aware too, if you're doing an extension to your home, and this is just a Tasmanian Regulation thing, and you're doing a big extension, big rental and whatnot. If you do greater than 50% extension to your house, that means the rest of the house has to be upgraded to match.

[Amelia] (11:32 - 11:32)

Really?

[Frank] (11:32 - 11:32)

Yep.

[Amelia] (11:32 - 11:36)

So, you have to go through permits and...

[Frank] (11:36 - 11:38)

Well, you've got a permit anyway, right?

[Amelia] (11:38 - 11:38)

Yeah.

[Frank] (11:38 - 11:54)

To do the extension. But if it's greater than 50%, that extension has to meet the current building regs, and in Tasmania, we're using the National Construction Code 2022. Yes.

Six star rating, current bushfire, all those things.

[Amelia] (11:55 - 11:55)

Yes.

[Frank] (11:55 - 11:56)

Thermal performance.

[Amelia] (11:56 - 11:56)

Yes.

[Frank] (11:57 - 11:59)

You then have to upgrade the whole house to match that.

[Amelia] (12:00 - 12:01)

Wow, so you're...

[Frank] (12:01 - 12:02)

Stripping it bare.

[Amelia] (12:02 - 12:04)

That could blow the budget.

[Frank] (12:05 - 12:06)

Just down to its undies.

[Amelia] (12:06 - 12:07)

Yep.

[Frank] (12:07 - 12:11)

And then you're going to put new bits all through it. You set a close over it.

[Amelia] (12:11 - 12:15)

I'm assuming that's if the old part of the home doesn't comply.

[Frank] (12:16 - 12:30)

It won't, it's not possible. It's not possible for it to comply. And we warn customers of this, because you might buy a house that's got 70 square metres, and I'm going to do a 200 square metre extension.

It does happen. So, then you're almost better off just knocking it down and starting again.

[Amelia] (12:30 - 12:37)

Yeah, well, I was going to say, like, that could really blow the budget. But this is... If you only anticipated to doing it, the windows in there.

[Frank] (12:38 - 12:44)

But the designer has to tell you at the start. You don't want to find this at the end while it's going through compliance, do you?

[Amelia] (12:44 - 12:45)

Oh, no way.

[Frank] (12:46 - 12:47)

Budget shattered.

[Amelia] (12:47 - 12:50)

Surely it would be picked up at planning.

[Frank] (12:50 - 12:53)

It's got a new planning. It's all building compliance.

[Amelia] (12:54 - 12:56)

Oh, so it would come under the building permit.

[Frank] (12:56 - 13:01)

Imagine finding that, you do all the drawings together, oh, you've got to upgrade. You know, you get to building, well, you've got to upgrade the whole thing.

[Amelia] (13:01 - 13:02)

Oh, that's annoying.

[Frank] (13:03 - 13:19)

This is why you rely on quality designers and architects that will guide you through this. Now, we have done another way where you've got to do a deemed-to-satisfy performance solution. Very difficult.

Very, very difficult. So, this is where you're planning stuff very early with your extension.

[Amelia] (13:20 - 13:22)

Is that if you can't get the energy to comply?

[Frank] (13:22 - 13:26)

Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. That's a $5,000, $6,000 report.

[Amelia] (13:26 - 13:27)

Whew.

[Frank] (13:27 - 13:45)

Now, just be aware of another thing too. Say if you're in a house currently and the window's rotted and you've got one window and you just need to replace it. You don't need a permit to do that.

Just get it done. And this is in Tasmania. I don't know about the rest of your states, but in Tasmania, you should be able to replace one window because it's an upgrade or it's a maintenance issue.

[Amelia] (13:46 - 13:55)

What about if you upgrade one window one year and then one window the next year and then one the next year? Does that mean you don't have to have a permit?

[Frank] (13:55 - 13:57)

Well, you can replace the whole lot and you don't have to have a permit.

[Amelia] (13:57 - 13:59)

Okay. It's only if you put on an extension.

[Frank] (14:00 - 14:05)

Well, no. But if you change the size of the window, because that requires a structural change to the building.

[Amelia] (14:06 - 14:06)

Yes.

[Frank] (14:07 - 14:22)

So, you can replace your windows because it's an upgrade. You've increased the thermal performance of it. Potentially, hopefully, the water tightness stays the same if it's done correctly.

So, you don't need a permit to upgrade your windows.

[Amelia] (14:23 - 14:27)

That's good. But then I guess you never know what the star rating is.

[Frank] (14:27 - 14:29)

But do you need to know?

[Amelia] (14:29 - 14:31)

Wouldn’t you want to know if it's compliant?

[Frank] (14:31 - 15:08)

You'll know, living in the house, that this is better. 

[Amelia]

True. 

[Frank]

Same as when you put insulation.

I don't know if you've ever been in a house. What we did to our office here, we had no insulation and we couldn't get it in at the time because of the shape of this building. But then there was these guys that could pump it in.

They knew how to do the roof. So, they lifted the roof and they pumped in polyethylene. Poly...

[Amelia]

Poly something. 

[Frank]

Poly something. The words elude me.

And they pumped it in and they put it in 200 mil thick. So, equivalent to about R4. Soon as you walked in the next day, you could tell the difference.

[Amelia] (15:09 - 15:09)

Yeah, right.

[Frank] (15:10 - 15:40)

Made a massive difference. And you know, when you've improved something in a house, you can notice. So, that's why it's worth doing.

If you are going down this track for making a decision to upgrade all your windows in your house, you need to do a ton of research. Typical, we always talk about the research. But do you go uPVC? Do you go replacement timber? Because timber's cool and it's nice. High maintenance.

Do you go aluminium? Aluminium, double glazed, thermally broken, high performance glass. Which one do you go for?

[Amelia] (15:40 - 16:00)

Well, my question is, I would look at everything because it's not just what sort of windows you want. What is the aesthetic I'm looking for? How much of thermal performance is important to me? Do I even need to get these windows replaced? Can I just get the frames repainted or repurposed if they're timber or whatever?

[Frank] (16:01 - 16:04)

So, machine them up to install a double glazed unit.

[Amelia] (16:04 - 16:11)

Yeah. Like, look at all your options because, you know, do you actually have to do this? Why are you doing it in the first place?

[Frank] (16:12 - 16:35)

I've heard of this in the mainland where people will go in and replace the glazing with a double glazed unit in windows, more timber windows. I'm not aware of that here in Tasmania, but there's probably someone who can do it. Which is ideal, potentially for heritage, but you've got to have a thick enough frame to be able to install it.

And depending on the gap in your glass too, you know, for a double glazed unit, you know, generally go for a 12mm gap.

[Amelia] (16:35 - 16:36)

Yes.

[Frank] (16:37 - 16:45)

So, there's lots of considerations. Heritage homes are the toughest one to do though. And this is where making custom windows potentially is your only option.

[Amelia] (16:46 - 16:46)

Yeah.

[Frank] (16:46 - 16:48)

You may have to sell a kidney.

[Amelia] (16:49 - 16:50)

Oh, I guess.

[Frank] (16:50 - 17:13)

Timber is beautiful, but it's a dying art. I've seen some done in older homes, and they're just beautiful works of joinery. They just look like furniture, how well they're put together.

It's just beautiful. Then they told me, there was one in particular, they told me the price and I go, I've got to bought a small car for that. One window.

One window. But it was beautiful.

[Amelia] (17:13 - 17:21)

But I guess when you go and purchase those sort of properties, you have to know that there's going to be additional costs in terms of the maintenance of it.

[Frank] (17:21 - 17:22)

Well, this is exactly right.

[Amelia] (17:22 - 17:25)

Because you're so limited as to what you can do.

[Frank] (17:25 - 17:28)

But also you don't want to detract from the building as well, make it look like rubbish.

[Amelia] (17:29 - 17:29)

Yes.

[Frank] (17:29 - 18:09)

So, I think you've also got to look at replacing your windows. And you've got all these options, as I mentioned, there's plenty of guys here doing UPVC swaps. For timber, because the thicker frames actually looks pretty good.

Okay. Proportionally, it looks good. Where aluminium, you can tell it's thin, doesn't look right.

So, you've got to look at those considerations. The UPVC windows, double glazed, European frames and mechanisms are beautiful. They're fantastic how they work.

They are a Rolls Royce type of window. But when you do this stuff, do a lot of research, do a lot of discussion, but you've got to find the guys that can actually install it well.

[Amelia] (18:09 - 18:10)

Yes.

[Frank] (18:10 - 18:17)

It's all willing to do it. But if they can't install it well and get the architraves, the flashings and sitting right within the window frame, it's going to look rubbish.

[Amelia] (18:18 - 18:18)

Exactly.

[Frank] (18:19 - 18:21)

You know, and then all that money you spend is wasted.

[Amelia] (18:21 - 18:25)

Yeah. It comes back to do your research, doesn't it?

[Frank] (18:25 - 18:28)

Yeah, but every time you look at it, these guys, oh, that looks like crap.

[Amelia] (18:28 - 18:29)

Yeah, yeah.

[Frank] (18:29 - 18:46)

You get very frustrated with that. The other part of it is the lead times of windows can be quite long at times. So, this is where, with the help of the builder, you need to get them pre-ordered, get them measured, check and double-check the measurements.

How are you going to do the architraves? How are you going to do the reveals, external and internal?

[Amelia] (18:46 - 18:48)

Choose your colours early.

[Frank] (18:48 - 18:51)

Choose your colours, or is it something you have to paint and maintain?

[Amelia] (18:51 - 18:52)

Exactly, yes.

[Frank] (18:52 - 19:19)

Western Red Cedar and some of the old places have got Western Red Cedar windows. You can still get those. I believe the cost is going up pretty high on those too.

And that's an interesting look as well. And you've got timber, lots and lots of maintenance. But if you've got the look, you don't want to change it to anything else.

And then you've got to look at return of investment. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Is this the right investment for you? Or is insulation? Or do you put bigger heaters in?

[Amelia] (19:20 - 19:20)

Yeah.

[Frank] (19:20 - 19:21)

And solar backup?

[Amelia] (19:22 - 19:25)

It's kind of like that payback period that we were talking about.

[Frank] (19:25 - 19:38)

This is everything you do on a reno. What's your payback period? People worry about over-extending or over-capitalising in Renaults.

And I say, well, if you're going to be there for seven to ten years, well, you're not. You're not getting the best use of a reno.

[Amelia] (19:38 - 19:38)

Yes.

[Frank] (19:39 - 19:48)

So you will get the benefit of it. If you're going to put windows in, make sure they're double-glazed. We've probably haven't spoken about that.

Just a bare minimum. Go double-glazed.

[Amelia] (19:48 - 19:51)

Yeah. In Tassie. Well, Australia-wide.

[Frank] (19:51 - 20:08)

Well, yeah, I think it's become that way. But in Tassie, we would double-glazed the standard for everything. Budget.

Getting a clear cost from a builder for the install. It's going to be an estimate because they don't know what they're going to find. Oh, dude, this is rotted out or this is a problem.

Although someone never installed a flashing at the top of the window.

[Amelia] (20:08 - 20:08)

Yes.

[Frank] (20:09 - 20:20)

So, yeah, a good builder will be able to do everything, do all the right things with flashings to make sure they don't leak. I keep banging on about that because water destroys homes.

[Amelia] (20:20 - 20:21)

Oh, it does.

[Frank] (20:21 - 20:27)

It makes a right mess. And then budgeting for this, that's going to be your toughest thing. And talking to lots of people.

[Amelia] (20:27 - 20:29)

There's nothing wrong with doing it in stages.

[Frank] (20:30 - 20:42)

Yeah, I know somebody who did that. Yep, yep. They saved up the money, got UPVC windows in their red brick home.

And they just did the living room, kitchen first. Then they did a bedroom. Then they did another bit. Yep, until the whole house was done.

[Amelia] (20:42 - 20:42)

Yeah.

[Frank] (20:43 - 21:01)

Another guy I know, they had an old 50s concrete style art deco-y place. And they went UPVC window, replaced the steel windows. Very different look because they're big and chunky compared to the thin steel.

But he said he couldn't believe the difference in the thermal performance.

[Amelia] (21:01 - 21:02)

Yes.

[Frank] (21:02 - 21:13)

It was just worth it. But it's a lot of money and takes time to pay that off. But your thermal comfort is something that you can't go back.

Once you've had a warm, toasty home, you can't go back.

[Amelia] (21:14 - 21:16)

Yes, especially here in Tassie.

[Frank] (21:16 - 21:27)

Yeah, so get a proper assessment. Speak to lots of glaziers. Talk to builders who are experienced in this space.

And order everything early.

[Amelia] (21:28 - 21:29)

Check for compliance.

[Frank] (21:29 - 21:32)

Yep. Need a bigger hole, you need a permit.

[Amelia] (21:33 - 21:38)

I guess another point too that we haven't made is, can I buy my windows from overseas?

[Frank] (21:40 - 21:43)

Great question. Yes and no.

[Amelia] (21:44 - 21:45)

Okay, why?

[Frank] (21:45 - 21:53)

Well, if you buy them from overseas, and it's becoming more of a trend of doing that, are they compliant?

[Amelia] (21:53 - 21:54)

Yes.

[Frank] (21:54 - 21:56)

Do you know what to look for to know if it's compliant?

[Amelia] (21:57 - 22:03)

Yeah, there's a stamp thing, isn't there, on there? There's a name for the ones that are compliant.

[Frank] (22:03 - 22:15)

WERS Assessed. So WERS, it's been tested to the Australian standards. I would go with a reputable, well-known company that's done this plenty of times.

I know here in Tasmania, generally everything's manufactured.

[Amelia] (22:16 - 22:17)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:17 - 22:21)

So you can always go back to someone if there's a problem, you go back to them.

[Amelia] (22:21 - 22:22)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:22 - 22:31)

I mean, overseas, and I've investigated that as well. The European style, triple glazed, UPVC, whizz bang, wonderful windows, but they are a super premium product.

[Amelia] (22:32 - 22:32)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:32 - 22:38)

They're really cool, but it has other issues where the cost of the installation is astronomical.

[Amelia] (22:38 - 22:39)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:39 - 22:57)

So looking at improving the thermal performance, yes, windows are a great place to start. But you need to shop around a lot and find the right builder. Some glaziers have their own builders, they refer, that know their product well and know how to do this really, really well.

[Amelia] (22:57 - 23:11)

And I guess my advice to everyone out there is take the time to look at your windows. I feel like it's something that can be overlooked when you're getting plans and stuff done up or if it's an extension or something like that.

[Frank] (23:11 - 23:19)

But it's like anything, if you're going to go out shopping for a new hot water cylinder or plumbing appliances, why wouldn't you do the same for your windows?

[Amelia] (23:19 - 23:20)

Exactly right.

[Frank] (23:20 - 23:24)

And find something that actually works with your building and it looks right.

[Amelia] (23:25 - 23:25)

Yes.

[Frank] (23:26 - 23:32)

And won't leak, give you years of life in your house and good thermal performance.

[Amelia] (23:33 - 23:33)

Warm and toasty.

[Frank] (23:34 - 23:35)

Warm and toasty, how good's that?

[Amelia] (23:35 - 23:40)

What a great place to sign off. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

[Frank] (23:40 - 23:41)

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (23:49 - 23:53)

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.