E138. How to design for the extension you'll add later

There's one design decision that can quietly cost you tens of thousands of dollars later, and most homeowners never even know it's being made. It's not your kitchen. It's not your bathroom. It's something far less obvious, buried in the layout of your very first build.

In this episode, Amelia and Frank tackle the question every homeowner is facing right now: building costs aren't coming down anytime soon, so what do you do when your dream home doesn't fit your budget? The answer isn't just "cut back." It's designing your smaller, more affordable home today so it's secretly ready to become the bigger home you actually want, years down the track.

Frank reveals the handful of small, almost invisible choices that decide whether your future extension is simple and cheap, or an expensive, disruptive mess. One wrong call on your roof shape. One missed conversation about where a pipe runs. One overlooked detail about your hallway. Get it right, and your stage-two build could cost a fraction of what it should. Get it wrong, and you might be cutting open brand-new walls in a few years' time.

They also unpack who really needs to be thinking about this now, from growing families to the surprising number of adult kids moving back home, and the one thing you need to tell your designer that most people never think to mention.

If you're building on a budget but planning to grow into something bigger one day, you need to hear this before you finalise a single drawing.

Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode! 

Disclaimer
The information provided on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, individual circumstances, or remedy. We strongly suggest you consult a qualified professional before taking any action based on the information provided in this podcast. The views, opinions, and information provided in this podcast are those of the hosts  do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer, or company.  All content provided on this podcast is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this podcast and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses,  or damages arising from its use. We reserve the right to change content or delete any information provided on this podcast at any time without prior notice.

Transcript

E138. How to design for the extension you'll add later 

[INTRO] (0:08 - 0:24)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, focused on providing valuable information for anyone looking to undertake a new build or extension project. We'll share our tips, tricks and stories from a building designer's perspective

[Amelia] (0:24-0:42)

Hello and welcome to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast, I'm your host Amelia and once again we're joined by Frank Geskus.

[Frank] (0:42 - 0:44)

Hey Amelia, happy Friday.

[Amelia] (0:44 - 0:47)

Happy Friday, you've been doing a few hot laps today.

[Frank] (0:47 - 1:03)

Yes, I've been very fortunate going out to a hot laps at Symmons Plains organised by Res Engineering and we took our cars and went out to the track and had a wonderful time with a whole bunch of other people in the construction industry.

[Amelia] (1:03 - 1:08)

So it was like defensive driving? 

[Frank]

Oh heck no. 

[Amelia]

Oh it was just fun?

[Frank] (1:08 - 1:13)

Cut and sick. No, you had to be smart otherwise you'd bend your car and then it's not smart.

[Amelia] (1:13 - 1:15)

Okay, so we'll just call it defensive driving.

[Frank] (1:16 - 1:20)

No, we're just calling it scenic driving at a nice speed.

[Amelia] (1:21 - 1:25)

At a nice speed? 

[Frank]

Yeah. 

[Amelia]

I feel like there's an asterisk that comes after that.

[Frank] (1:25 - 1:26)

I did make one person sick.

[Amelia] (1:26 - 1:29)

I did hear about that, your nephew.

[Frank] (1:29 - 1:35)

Yes. Anyway, that's not what we're here about.

[Amelia] (1:35 - 1:40)

No, that's right. We're going to talk about, well, a podcast topic because that's what we do every week.

[Frank] (1:40 - 1:56)

Yeah, that's true. But this one particularly is interesting because of the way things are changing in the industry. We're talking about designing your new home but also because of rising costs.

And just a side note, these costs aren't going to taper potentially for another three years according to the HIA guys.

[Amelia] (1:57 - 1:57)

Yep.

[Frank] (1:58 - 2:05)

So the cost is what it is, wages, materials, a whole bunch of stuff. But everyone has a budget. That's just a fact.

You've got a limit.

[Amelia] (2:05 - 2:06)

Yes.

[Frank] (2:06 - 2:10)

To whether you can build what you want to that budget subject to a whole bunch of variables.

[Amelia] (2:11 - 2:11)

Yes.

[Frank] (2:11 - 2:15)

So what happens when you don't have the budget to do the house that you want?

[Amelia] (2:16 - 2:25)

Well, that's exactly right. I mean, you look at the standard home at the moment, which most people are in a four bed, two bath, pretty stock standard.

[Frank] (2:25 - 2:29)

Double garage. 220 to 250 square metres.

[Amelia] (2:29 - 2:29)

Yep.

[Frank] (2:30 - 2:31)

Yep, can't do that cheaply now.

[Amelia] (2:32 - 2:33)

It's very, very difficult.

[Frank] (2:33 - 2:34)

It's made it really tough.

[Amelia] (2:34 - 2:35)

It is, yeah.

[Frank] (2:35 - 2:49)

I think one of the key points with this, if you find a location and you go, yeah, I can see myself here for the rest of my days or at least for 20, 30 years. Location is very important.

[Amelia] (2:49 - 2:49)

Yes.

[Frank] (2:51 - 3:12)

But subject to the cost of your build, you may not be able to get everything you want. And I'm not just talking about fit out, but that has a very big part of that. But the size of the house you want, how you want it to work, double garage, like I said, two living areas, four bedroom, two bathrooms, huge alfresco, shed out the back, nice garden and Bob's your uncle, you're over a million bucks.

[Amelia] (3:13 - 3:14)

And it doesn't take much.

[Frank] (3:15 - 4:13)

Unfortunately, this is the reality that we face. So then we were discussing, well, what happens if you build part of your house, the essentials that you need? And in our Prime Design process, we talk about your wish list.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

It says, what are your absolute minimums that you cannot do without? Then we look at what are the things you'd love to have if it was possible?

The toughest things for us is when people come in and their budget and their ideas don't match. And then we have to go through a process, which is fine. We're happy to do that.

But it's also being real on what things cost and what you can achieve. So I personally believe if you've got the location and you are adamant, I'm going to be there for a while, then I would certainly plan as much of the house for your budget at this stage that achieve as much as you can. And it might be a case of we're going three bedroom, two bath, one living area and no garage or no alfresco or whatever it may be.

[Amelia] (4:14 - 4:14)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:14 - 4:19)

But what happens if the designer could design it so you could extend it easily?

[Amelia] (4:19 - 4:20)

That's a good point.

[Frank] (4:20 - 4:29)

Not just do an extension like it's planned. The hallway is your back door. So that will be how you enter into the other part of your building.

[Amelia] (4:29 - 4:31)

And that makes a lot of sense.

[Frank] (4:31 - 4:37)

It does, but a lot of people don't like it because they want what they want now. But the reality is if they can't afford it, well, what's the point?

[Amelia] (4:38 - 4:38)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:38 - 4:52)

Okay, it's this logical discussion that we have. So the easiest things I see, you've got a block, you want to build a new house, you get your fundamentals, you make that list. The easiest things to lop off are your garage.

[Amelia] (4:53 - 4:53)

Yes.

[Frank] (4:54 - 5:13)

Usually a double garage because you're up to internally 36 square metres, generally, you know, six by six. Sometimes you go for 5.5 by 5.5, no good if you've got big cars. But then obviously the square metres of your wall and cladding.

Some people go, oh, just to build a carport. You're not saving a huge amount.

[Amelia] (5:14 - 5:15)

No, that's right.

[Frank] (5:16 - 5:39)

I want an alfresco, I want an outdoor barbecue area, etc. Again, first thing to lop off. The things you can't do without, and this is unfortunate when people choose, especially in Launceston and Hobart, is that our blocks aren't flat all the time.

And then they're building retaining walls. And that adds to the cost of your house. These are external items that you can't control.

You need to put these in so the dirt doesn't push up against your house.

[Amelia] (5:39 - 5:42)

Oh, that's exactly right. They're non-negotiables.

[Frank] (5:43 - 6:21)

But this is where you've got to choose the right block. And we've had plenty of podcasts and I bang on about it. Choose the wrong block costs you tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

So, back to being smart about your budget. Get what you need and know that your house has been planned for a future addition.

It could be the second living area. It may be a fourth bedroom. It may be a rumpus room, double garage, workshop, whatever that may be.

And this may develop, you know, are you having a growing family? The other one, which is interesting, you know, couples who've been divorced come together and they're going to have a heap of bedrooms because the kids stay.

[Amelia] (6:22 - 6:25)

Yes, they both come from families that both have kids.

[Frank] (6:25 - 6:48)

Yeah, exactly. And you've got to cater for that. But sometimes you just don't have power to build a house of the sheer size that you need.

Working at home, you know, if you are, you need to have a space to work at. There's all these variables going forward. That's why people need to extend at some stage.

It's always better to work within your budget than going to your absolute limit, I believe.

[Amelia] (6:48 - 6:52)

Yeah, I think that's smart. And we've already had a podcast on contingencies.

[Frank] (6:53 - 6:59)

Yes, you know, allowing enough up your sleeve to come up with, you know, overcome any challenges on the build.

[Amelia] (7:00 - 7:03)

Which is common on, you know, extensions.

[Frank] (7:04 - 7:24)

Oh, even new homes, you know, shouldn't be, you think, but it does happen. They find a rock, they find a tree stump buried under there, it costs you heaps of money to get it fixed. So then other reasons why you may want to extend is ageing parents.

And this other one is happening a lot. Adult kids coming back to stay so they can save up for their own house.

[Amelia] (7:25 - 7:28)

That's a good point. I feel like that is becoming way more common.

[Frank] (7:29 - 7:34)

I heard one recently where the parents are coming back to the kids' home in a granny flat to help support them.

[Amelia] (7:34 - 7:47)

Actually, funnily enough, you say that. I was at my hairdresser last night and her mum has just moved in downstairs because she has broken up with her partner.

[Frank] (7:48 - 7:48)

Yes.

[Amelia] (7:48 - 7:53)

And so she's living back with her daughter and their family. Yeah. It happens.

[Frank] (7:53 - 8:45)

I'm actually really happy to hear that. This is this family nucleus, if you want to call it that. Mums and dads, kids, we all help each other.

Awesome. So budget's the biggest thing at the moment. There are options and your designer can design for the future.

Please be aware, though, as much as we love to design for the future, it still costs more than building brand new from scratch. But if it's well planned, it will reduce those costs considerably. Roof is one of the big ones.

Designing a roof that is quite easy to extend off, not having to cut through, lose the valuable space of bedrooms, laundries, whatever, to actually access this space. So you design the hallways now. So the hallway is your door.

That back door now becomes part of that extension in the future.

[Amelia] (8:45 - 8:46)

Yes.

[Frank] (8:46 - 8:59)

Same with if you're adding a garage to it, all those things have to be planned. Your house might be designed with a double garage, can't afford it, lop it off, put a window in there. Window comes out later on to put the garage on, becomes a new doorway into the house.

[Amelia] (9:00 - 9:02)

Yeah, that's not a bad way to do it either.

[Frank] (9:02 - 9:29)

Yep. Footings shouldn't be a problem. You know, that's very easy to deal with extending off a house unless you're in crazy reactive soils.

Roof lines, as I said. Structure walls, not a big deal for the roof loading up. We can deal with that quite easy, especially if you've got the opening already going through to the back or the side, whatever it may be.

Maybe to the front, bigger living area.

[Amelia] (9:29 - 9:30)

Oh yeah, that's true.

[Frank] (9:30 - 9:30)

Yep.

[Amelia] (9:30 - 9:30)

Yeah.

[Frank] (9:30 - 10:04)

We designed one house, it was three bed, two bath, open plan living, L-shape. And I designed it in a way, hallway went all the way to the back, door to the rear. And the idea was you could do another master bedroom, rumpus and garage and its current three bedroom house.

But because the living room, it was nice, it was okay. But you take out the two walls for the other bedroom that was there and you've got this massive, you gain another 3.3 by 3.3 space to add to the total living space.

[Amelia] (10:04 - 10:05)

Oh, nice.

[Frank] (10:05 - 10:15)

So that was always in the plan. Non-load bearing walls, which is pretty easy to do. The electrical was already in place for a lot of this stuff.

It was straightforward.

[Amelia] (10:16 - 10:16)

Yes.

[Frank] (10:16 - 10:33)

And the hallway worked, access to the rest of the house worked with, where the hallway door was, worked with the walls of that bedroom. So then essentially it was just take two walls out, windows already in place, a couple of robes to deal with, patch the plaster, new flooring, done.

[Amelia] (10:35 - 10:39)

But they already had that plan in place at the design stage.

[Frank] (10:40 - 10:43)

Well, I did it. I showed them what could be done.

[Amelia] (10:43 - 10:48)

Yeah, okay. So they already had an idea to start with, which is really the whole point.

[Frank] (10:48 - 10:54)

Yeah, they had an idea, but their budget was limited too. But I said, look, this is what you can do in the future and all these things are doable.

[Amelia] (10:54 - 10:54)

Yes.

[Frank] (10:55 - 11:08)

And it was already built into the design. There was no extra cost with this. It just showed what we could do.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Interestingly enough, they just sold the house for a pile of money, really good money. So the new owners probably won't know this.

[Amelia] (11:09 - 11:09)

Yeah, okay.

[Frank] (11:09 - 11:22)

Yeah. The other thing is with roof lines, designed in such a way so you don't end up with box gutters with the join. You've heard us talk about box gutters.

We're always stuck in a weird twitch and thinking about box gutters and they're horrible. Don't ever do them if you can help it.

[Amelia] (11:23 - 11:25)

Yes. I think we know your stand on that by now.

[Frank] (11:25 - 11:38)

Yeah, yeah. Expensive and stupid. Windows are another interesting part of when you're looking at the extensions because the windows could also be the part that you break through to put sliding doors or put a bit of wall in and enter another space.

[Amelia] (11:39 - 11:39)

Okay.

[Frank] (11:39 - 11:51)

You don't want to change rooms. Like when you do extensions on old homes, you're compromising. A bedroom will go, a bathroom will go, a laundry will go to gain access to the new area.

You have to plan the thoroughfare space.

[Amelia] (11:52 - 11:53)

That's a good point.

[Frank] (11:53 - 12:21)

That's very important. Most designers can do this as long as you give them that. Other thing is to consider is your plumbing.

If you're going to do another bathroom, whatever, then wherever your plumbing comes out of the house, let's just say under slab, you need to be able to run a pipe either under the slab to the back of the house or to the side of the house, wherever the extension may potentially be, and it gets capped and there's an inspection opening that pops up above the ground.

[Amelia] (12:22 - 12:22)

Okay.

[Frank] (12:23 - 12:38)

So if that visually can be seen, then builder goes, oh, awesome, we've got plumbing there, we've got sewerage, happy days. Same with your storm water with your downpipes. Pipes extend a little bit further and they're capped and there's an inspection opening at the end.

It can be seen.

[Amelia] (12:38 - 12:39)

Yes.

[Frank] (12:39 - 12:41)

You don't have to go get plans at the council if you don't have to.

[Amelia] (12:41 - 12:44)

It's making things easier. 

[Frank] (12:44 - 12:58)

It does. 

[Amelia]

Yeah. 

[Frank]

We actually do this for commercial buildings when we do them, especially where it says, oh, what are you going to do? Oh, I don't know how it's going to work. Well, let's just run a pipe all the way through.

We run inspection openings and they can put extra toilets, bathrooms, kitchens, whatever they need to do. Guess how much it costs?

[Amelia] (12:58 - 12:59)

Not that much more.

[Frank] (12:59 - 13:00)

Bugger all.

[Amelia] (13:00 - 13:04)

Yeah. In the long run, it's probably 100% worth it.

[Frank] (13:04 - 13:11)

I was talking to a developer and he was sharing his frustrations with me where they had to cut brand new slabs up because they didn't plan this plumbing properly.

[Amelia] (13:12 - 13:12)

Oh, really?

[Frank] (13:13 - 13:18)

Yeah. And I said, that's what we do. You've got to think about going forward with this stuff.

[Amelia] (13:19 - 13:19)

Yes.

[Frank] (13:20 - 13:43)

Power is another interesting one. A couple of extra circuits. Make sure you've got enough amperage to suit a future size house.

Water won't matter. Stormwater and plumbing pipe sizes don't matter. Just extending it far enough.

Hot water cylinders are the interesting one because the location may not be great for the extension for one hot water cylinder. But so try and plan that location of hot water cylinder.

[Amelia] (13:43 - 13:44)

Okay.

[Frank] (13:44 - 13:47)

Rather than waiting for 40 minutes for your water to turn hot for your shower.

[Amelia] (13:47 - 13:48)

Yeah, no one wants that.

[Frank] (13:48 - 13:49)

No.

[Amelia] (13:49 - 13:56)

I guess the main thing here is most people are focused on the here and now with their, you know, design or their purchase of their house.

[Frank] (13:56 - 13:57)

Yeah, you've got to have everything.

[Amelia] (13:57 - 14:01)

They want everything up front and, you know, I think that's…

[Frank] (14:01 - 14:10)

The rude shock is it is very difficult with the banks because the valuations, the valuations not keeping up with the cost of construction.

[Amelia] (14:11 - 14:12)

Yes.

[Frank] (14:12 - 14:20)

If you have a steep site and steep sites can add anywhere from 10% to 25% more on your average steep site, you don't gain any extra value.

[Amelia] (14:20 - 14:21)

No.

[Frank] (14:21 - 14:50)

I've experienced this myself just recently. So you've got to have the dough to actually do this. You've got to keep an open mind.

You've got a steep block. Another thing is if you do an extension, you've got a slightly steep block and you've got retaining walls around the back as we spoke about before. If you don't put enough retaining walls and excavate enough out for a future extension, you've got to get machines in around the back or side of the house to be able to do that.

It costs more to do that. And it messes stuff up and more chance of breaking things.

[Amelia] (14:50 - 14:54)

So the site planning and the layout is… 

[Frank] (14:54 - 14:55)

Oh, very much.…

[Amelia]

crucial in all of this. 

[Frank]

Crucial.

[Amelia] (14:55 - 14:56)

Yes.

[Frank] (14:56 - 15:17)

Same with future decks, future pergolas and alfrescos, space. If you want a future pool… 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

…you should be thinking about this stuff. 

[Amelia]

Early. 

[Frank]

Have I got the space?

Oh, no, there's an easement out the back. Well, and we've just had that recently. Somewhere I'll put a shed and there's an easement.

Well, you can't do it, do you? But I want a shed. You can't do it.

You can't build it over infrastructure.

[Amelia] (15:18 - 15:18)

Yes.

[Frank] (15:18 - 15:42)

Very, very difficult. So this comes down to all this site planning. So it's not just this one bit you're doing now.

You're looking long-term. This is why I think landscaping ideas are a very, very good idea as well. When it goes wrong, well, I wouldn't call it wrong.

When you just design a normal house and then, if the circumstances change, then you have to extend it and it hasn't been planned, well, that's just like extending any other house. True. And it's expensive.

[Amelia] (15:42 - 15:45)

Yes. It just, yes, it can cost more.

[Frank] (15:45 - 16:15)

Oh, it costs you way more. 

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Heaps more. And that's just the unfortunate side of it. But if you're smart and you're going to be there for a long time, this is the key part. Are you going to be there for a long time?

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

Then it's worth it. If it's not, you plan, no, we're going to move over this area, whatever, da, da, da.

Because it's interesting, we get a lot of people wanting to move into certain areas because of schools, social reasons, closer to the city, all those types of things.

[Amelia] (16:15 - 16:15)

Closer to family.

[Frank] (16:16 - 16:26)

Yep. All that. And they'll grab any house and they will modify it to suit and it's expensive.

And this happens all over Australia.

[Amelia] (16:26 - 16:27)

Oh, yeah.

[Frank] (16:27 - 16:28)

Because location, location, location.

[Amelia] (16:29 - 16:29)

Yes.

[Frank] (16:29 - 16:42)

If you're building and that's going to be location, plan it well. And that's about it, really, with the planning. Alternatively, you know, you buy an old house, you renovate and you do all that. And a lot of double, triple handling.

[Amelia] (16:43 - 17:03)

And I realise, like, I mean, that's the whole point of this podcast, really, is if you're going to go and do this stuff, if you say you can't afford it to get the house that you want right now and you want to do that extension later, make sure you tell your designer that that's what you plan to do because then we can make provisions for that.

[Frank] (17:03 - 17:15)

The reality is, why put yourself under such financial stress? A lot of talk goes on about this. You know, I got a loan in when it was 2%, whatever, and now it's, what is it, six?

[Amelia] (17:16 - 17:17)

On average, yep.

[Frank] (17:17 - 17:20)

And people are in stress, but they're pushed to the limit.

[Amelia] (17:20 - 17:21)

Yes.

[Frank] (17:21 - 17:25)

You know, patience. I suppose at the end of the day, it's patience.

[Amelia] (17:25 - 17:31)

Yeah. I mean, it's a hard one because, you know, maybe first home buyers or...

[Frank] (17:31 - 17:53)

Yeah, exactly right. 

[Amelia]

You know, they don't know what to expect. 

[Frank]

The end of the day, the cheapest extension you'll ever have is one that's been planned first as part of the original house.

[Amelia]

Yes. 

[Frank]

It's just as simple as that. You're two steps ahead.

The other side of it is disruption. If it's well planned, you have very little disruption on that extension.

[Amelia] (17:53 - 17:54)

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Frank] (17:55 - 18:05)

You know, so have a good think about that. Where it gets really interesting is when you build, and this is a flaw in the order, generation homes. Three different generations in a home.

[Amelia] (18:05 - 18:05)

Yes.

[Frank] (18:05 - 18:21)

And that's coming up a lot because modern home, three generations, and they all have to work together in the house and have their own space and whatnot, and it has to be well planned. But it's a smart way of doing it. And I see there's going to be a lot more of it.

[Amelia] (18:22 - 18:32)

I think you're right. Or people are going to have to be more realistic about what they can afford and maybe it isn't that four-bedroom, two-bathroom, two-car garage house.

[Frank] (18:33 - 18:36)

With the $100,000 kitchen, the walk-in pantry.

[Amelia] (18:36 - 18:37)

Yes.

[Frank] (18:37 - 18:41)

And the $200 square metre flooring overlay in your living area.

[Amelia] (18:41 - 18:42)

Mm-hmm.

[Frank] (18:42 - 18:44)

And your special media room.

[Amelia] (18:45 - 18:45)

Yes.

[Frank] (18:46 - 18:53)

This shit's real. There's no doubt about it. The cost of this construction is massive, but you can still get a decent house, but you can plan for your future.

[Amelia] (18:53 - 19:00)

So let's look at this objectively. I'm going through this process myself. 

[Frank] (19:00 - 19:02)

Yes. And I've made some fun comments about it.

[Amelia] (19:02 - 19:13)

You have made some fun comments. And I already know that I'm probably over budget, which is fine because we made the- Yeah. Well, it's fine for now because we haven't spent really any money.

[Frank] (19:14 - 19:15)

I haven't spoken to Nick yet.

[Amelia] (19:16 - 19:30)

But do you recommend that people actually get everything designed that they want to start with and then cut it back and then factor in… 

[Frank]

At concept stage..

[Amelia]

Yeah. Well, exactly, and I'm only up to this stage at the moment.

[Frank] (19:30 - 19:33)

That's where. Not at construction stage.

[Amelia] (19:33 - 19:35)

No, you make a good point there.

[Frank] (19:35 - 20:02)

We go, right. And this is a process that we run at Prime Design. You go through your concepts, feasibility studies, concepts, and you get some preliminary engineering, bushfire assessment, all soil tests, surveys, all of that.

And we have a process using quantity surveyor to work out what your budget cost is going to be. Are you close? Are you far off?

If you have a building company that you're working with, get them to do the price. But it has to be fair dinkum.

[Amelia] (20:02 - 20:02)

Yes.

[Frank] (20:03 - 20:32)

Because you don't want to be BS'd about this because this is critical for you to make a decision before you go for planning, before you finalise the whole thing, because you don't want to get to the end. And I see this so much. When they get to the end, they've got all their building permits ready to go, and they're 200 grand, 300 grand over.

And you may see, you know, on what is maybe an $800,000 budget, and you might say, oh, that doesn't happen. I've seen worse than that. It is disgusting.

[Amelia] (20:32 - 20:33)

Yeah.

[Frank] (20:34 - 20:46)

All because they don't have a process. We do have a process in place because I've seen it too much. But it's also you as the homeowner have to be responsible for your own budget as well to understand it.

[Amelia] (20:46 - 20:47)

100%.

[Frank] (20:47 - 21:48)

Don't just assume everything doesn't cost a lot. It does. Houses now are very complex with their thermal performance, minimum requirements under the National Construction Code.

And they do this for a reason. I don't always agree with some of them, but they do it for a reason, and it's the code that we have. You've got to be real about this.

And before you go for planning, you know where you sit with your budget with your contingency. And we're talking about different podcasts, contingencies. This extra bit of money that you don't intend to spend, but you might have to spend because of unknowns.

If you then are okay with your budget, go. If you are not, make the real decision, put your big boy pants on, cut it back. This is not about keeping up with the Jones’s or pride or whatever.

It's being real. Talk to your designer. They need to understand we're only interested in helping you build your house or your extension, whatever it may be, to make sure you get what you can afford.

And we're not experts on this pricing. This is why we have to farm it out.

[Amelia] (21:48 - 21:53)

No, that's right. So quantity surveyors are a little bit more well-versed in that area.

[Frank] (21:53 - 21:57)

Yeah. The ones that we use, because he actually prices for builders.

[Amelia] (21:57 - 21:58)

Yeah, okay.

[Frank] (21:58 - 22:12)

You know, that's what he does. But if you're working with a builder, pay them to do it. Pay them to give you budget fees.

So then we're all working together. Hey, we need to cut back this, that, and the other. Or, no, you're good to go.

Happy days.

[Amelia] (22:12 - 22:24)

And, I mean, use those awesome resources that are around you. Like I've worked really closely with my mortgage broker. 

[Frank]

Yep.

[Amelia]

They've been fantastic because they can tell me exactly how much I'm allowed to borrow from the bank.

[Frank] (22:24 - 22:26)

Yep, and whether you want to borrow that much.

[Amelia] (22:26 - 22:32)

That's right. And then on top of that, I've engaged a builder fairly early to do a feasibility study.

[Frank] (22:32 - 22:33)

Yep.

[Amelia] (22:33 - 22:38)

That has been fantastic to get some just rough costings to start with.

[Frank] (22:38 - 22:38)

Yes, budgets.

[Amelia] (22:38 - 22:44)

They're not accurate yet, but, you know, doing that at the concept stage has been so valuable.

[Frank] (22:45 - 22:46)

Your knowledge is so much more.

[Amelia] (22:46 - 22:47)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:47 - 22:49)

So takeaways.

[Amelia] (22:49 - 22:51)

Yeah, what are they?

[Frank] (22:51 - 22:55)

Always gear to budget costings on everything you do.

[Amelia] (22:55 - 22:55)

Yes.

[Frank] (22:57 - 23:10)

Don't pay for full, complete documents unless you know exactly how much is going to, you know, within 20%, 30%. That's what budgets are, that you know you're comfortable. 

[Amelia]

Yes.

[Frank]

There's nothing more earth shattering at the end of a process and you realise.

[Amelia] (23:11 - 23:12)

I can't afford this.

[Frank] (23:12 - 23:13)

And we've spent all this money.

[Amelia] (23:14 - 23:21)

Yes. And, I mean, let's look at it. Designing, going through the full process of design and permits, that's not a cheap process.

[Frank] (23:21 - 23:32)

It's not cheap and it's not easy. Now, you also have to take your responsibility for your own actions for what you choose, and you have to listen to your designers and your architects if they're generally concerned about where you're heading with your budget.

[Amelia] (23:32 - 23:33)

Yes.

[Frank] (23:33 - 23:36)

If you don't listen to them, they can't help you. Simple as that.

[Amelia] (23:37 - 23:41)

I mean, they do this day in and day out. They know roughly what it's going to cost.

[Frank] (23:42 - 23:47)

We still have customers that fight us on stuff, don't believe us, and that's just life. This is every job.

[Amelia] (23:48 - 23:49)

Yes.

[Frank] (23:49 - 23:56)

You know, but we generally want people to build their homes or extend their homes and do whatever they want to do within the money they have.

[Amelia] (23:57 - 23:59)

Yeah, we don't want to design something they can't afford.

[Frank] (24:00 - 24:02)

But we don't do costings.

[Amelia] (24:03 - 24:03)

No.

[Frank] (24:03 - 24:06)

And we've got some valuable resources on our website that can help.

[Amelia] (24:07 - 24:08)

Yes, we do.

[Frank] (24:08 - 24:10)

We've got the spreadsheet on there now, haven't we?

[Amelia] (24:10 - 24:11)

We do, yes.

[Frank] (24:11 - 24:17)

Ah, So we have a spreadsheet which will help you go through costings and picking and choosing, go shopping, put it all in there.

[Amelia] (24:18 - 24:19)

Selections, yes, all of that.

[Frank] (24:19 - 24:20)

And that helps massively.

[Amelia] (24:20 - 24:21)

It does.

[Frank] (24:21 - 24:22)

It helps the builder massively.

[Amelia] (24:22 - 24:26)

Well, they say even, like, the interiors are about, what, a third of the build?

[Frank] (24:26 - 24:27)

Can be.

[Amelia] (24:27 - 24:27)

Yeah.

[Frank] (24:28 - 24:29)

Depends what you spec.

[Amelia] (24:30 - 24:37)

That's right. Okay, cool. All right, we might wrap it up there, folks. Thanks for listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.

[Frank] (24:37 - 24:38)

Catch ya’s later.

[OUTRO] (24:47 - 24:50)

You're listening to the Building Design, Prime Time Podcast.