Colour, pattern and texture are integral to Bethan Laura Wood’s practice – and her personal style. The London-based, mixed-discipline designer is in demand as a collaborator for brands across a multitude of genres from fashion to champagne and homewares. She is also the recipient of the 2023 Mecca X National Gallery of Victoria Women in Design Commission, an initiative backed by the beauty retailer to help address the imbalance of female representation in galleries.
Colour, pattern and texture are integral to Bethan Laura Wood’s practice – and her personal style. The London-based, mixed-discipline designer is in demand as a collaborator for brands across a multitude of genres from fashion to champagne and homewares. She is also the recipient of the 2023 Mecca X National Gallery of Victoria Women in Design Commission, an initiative backed by the beauty retailer to help address the imbalance of female representation in galleries.
Trailnash, and welcome to InFashion. Personal style is obviously different for everybody, but occasionally, for those in the creative industries, it can seem to be an extension of their practice. Bethan Laura Wood is a multidisciplinary designer based in London, and a graduate of the Royal College of Art. She often appears to be the embodiment of her colourful and exuberant design aesthetic. Her work often involves familiar domestic or industrial materials, such as laminate, glass or ceramics, to create furniture, tableware or lighting, and she also has an interest in textile design. In addition to her own practice, she often collaborates with brands in the fashion realm such as Valextra, Hermes and Tory Burch. Earlier this year, Bethan was named as the recipient of the 2023 Mecca National Gallery of Victoria Women in Design Commission. For this, she's creating a piece for the permanent collection of the Melbourne Gallery, which will be unveiled in December. I was lucky enough to meet Bethan on a rainy day during the London summer at her studio in East London. I hope you enjoy this episode of InFashion.
GTN:Well, Bethan, thank you so much for joining us today. No worries. Um, and we are here in your studio in East London, which is fabulous. My God, so much colour, so much colour, so many shapes. I mean, before we sort of get into so many things, tell us a little bit about your work as an artist, because everything is so colourful. It's fascinating work.
Bethan:Well, thank you very much. And I'm very happy to have you here in my new studio, which I moved into recently. So it's been quite fun for me to suddenly be putting lots of stuff up on the walls. I like to explain myself as a mixed discipline designer. So I come from a design. background. Um, so I, I did three dimensional design and then product design for a master's, but I've always enjoyed a fluidity in my practice to be able to move from different materials and in different scales and, um, different types of clients or projects. So, I've done work from clasps. It's all the way up to full size trees and installations and more sculptural art pieces. So it's very much a kind of a fluid practice. And I have, a predominance of, more gallery or one off works than, mass, produced pieces. But a lot of my work is often in conversation with the kind of mass culture that we, we're kind of living in now and the layers and layers that build up industrialized spaces. Um, so yeah, that's me and my stuff. And, uh, rightly, rightly said there may be a little bit of color and pattern at some point in my work. Not everything is, um, colored, but the majority I would say is, and especially the things that you've been seeing in my studio with my printouts to do with this exciting project I'm doing for Australia are very much full color tilt. Um, So, yeah, I can't really deny it when you start standing in front of massive colour vistas like you've just been doing out there. Exactly.
GTN:And so that is, of course, why we have met up is because you're doing this commission for the National Gallery of Victoria, which is the MECA commission. Yes. So, I mean, what does that mean to you? Is this your first big
Bethan:Australian commission? Yes, it is. And it's really the first time I've come to Australia. So I'm very excited about coming over. And, um, I know, some of the projects that previously the NGV has done, um, as part of their, program where they work with international designers. So I was really excited when they, um, approached me about doing a project. And then when we started talking specifically about this, commission, which is connected with Mecca and about, Women in the arts and um, addressing a disbalance of female representation it was like, wow, this is super, this is such a lovely way to be able to create a new body of work and find a whole new group of people to play with and talk to. And I'm really excited about coming over and then. Also being able to meet people in Australia and get a feeling for what's there, the colors in Australia and, and things. So, hopefully post Australia, I might actually make work that is more about, uh, that part. And then weirdly for this project, I was invited to make work a little bit in response to the British Regency room and the, um. 18th, 19th century British collection that they have. So I've, I've bizarrely been going back into some more of my own kind of history for, uh, for this specific commission.
GTN:And can you tell us what you're able to tell us before the unveil later, which is like in November, I
Bethan:think. Yes. As part of the triennale, which is also a really. Super way to be able to present work because know some of the other designers that have work that's going to be on show for this and I know it's amazing. So I'm really excited. Um, and I was like, Oh, crumbs. That's also means I have to make something good enough to compete or not compete, be in the same place. That's right. Um, So what I can tell you about it. Okay. So, as I said, I was invited to make a piece of work that would go within the British Regency and 18th, 19th century rooms. And then the commission itself is connected with, um, women in the arts. So I chose also to have a nod towards this or to look at, elements that I was interested in. Um, and connected to women's learning or, um, the work of women, um, and probably as most people can imagine, this period of, the Regency and going into the 18th century, there's, there's still quite a lot of limitations over what women are expected to be allowed to do or ways in which women could access education or learning. So the commission that I've made has a connection to this because I decided, to look at, at library furniture or the kind of furnitures within a salon space. because obviously I'm from a design background and, uh, for me, I like the anchoring of finding the physical furniture language that would connect with this, So there's actually quite a lot of pioneering women at this period, like, uh, Mary Wolvencroft, whose daughter uh, Mary Shelley would write Frankenstein. she was of the first, women writing about how important it is for women's liberation to, um, be able to have access to education. I fell in love with a book by, a lady called Jane Wells Webb Lorden, very long name. And, um, she was, part also of a craze that would, become more dominant a bit later and into 19th century, of botany and you know, with the discovery of microscopes and this kind of micro world, she was writing books like The Lady's Companion to the Flower Garden and I loved the way that she, wrote to women saying, you know, don't get put off by the fact that you don't know the Latin. There's other ways to learn. I didn't know the Latin. I don't have all those layers of male education to start from. And this is how I learned about the flowers. I observed them. I looked for the same shapes and then I started to build up a visual understanding of the difference between species through That kind of visual learning. And so for me, especially as someone who's dyslexic, I really resonated with the way that she kind of opened her book. In a more, very accessible way to kind of encourage women to, be able to learn or find different routes into, into learning. um, and then the other kind of key groups that I like from this period was, um, the Blue Stocking Society, which was this, group of women, predominantly that would, gather together to share knowledge and, um, there's a, a famous punch cartoon of them. which is like this bonkers riot of color and it's obviously meant to be degrading because it's, it's kind of saying you can't get groups of women together without them falling apart and breaking tea sets and, you know, raucous. But there was something that I wanted to turn on its head to like play with this kind of beauty in these kind of intense, vibrant colors and also these kind of fear of what happens when you have. you know, circles of women gathering together and maybe discussing. So I decided to make something that was rotational and would play with this idea of being able to access knowledge from all different sides And then also, the textile piece. So again, because a lot of women's work from this period and in general, we women have quite a history with textile art. And I love, in more recent years, obviously with like the Annie Albers and, Chile Hicks there's, there's been a lot of, Refining or a greater respect for especially textile art where there's some really pioneering women. So I've developed, a carpet, to go in the space that, that's my kind of nod to this, Universe. So yeah, lots, of things together in a space that hopefully people can, uh, enjoy and, get a lot of visual stimuli from. I think
GTN:there will be a lot of visual stimulation in it. Having just seen the scale model, I'm just like, wow, I can't wait to see this in its full size in
Bethan:situ. Me too. She's going to be a big girl. So
GTN:tell me how, given your work, how does this marry with your personal style? Because this is a very, you have a very strong, style and it's fabulous.
Bethan:Oh, thank you. I think, I mean, it goes through different waves in general with my work. When I, when I was younger, I, I, Struggled more with people, with the disconnection or the connection people have between how I looked and what I made. So, as a young student, when people would, assume that I, well, maybe did fashion or did, like, not things that need you to, you know, weld or be with big drill. I was like, no, I make furniture. I bang bits of wood together. And wear tutus and, um, and I, I think there was quite a window of time where I wasn't sure how or if the two things needed to be combined. Um, so a lot of my earlier work, I was, I think, more fearful of how to integrate the colouring versus like my personal interest in colour and pattern. against what an actual project needs. And I think as I grew older, and I also had amazing tutors like Jürgen Bay and Martino Gamper at the RCA, they kind of were like, you know, this is a superpower, the fact that you can kind of handle this much color or pattern or that you have, a way of digesting an environment through these, these details. And that is something that you should put in your work. And I think at that point, then I found A more happy balance where I felt confident that I could find a level where I understood when I could work with it and bring something that is very specific to my designing and then points where I could be like, no, actually this doesn't need that. And, and have that confidence and knowledge over, over that mix between when something is personal and professional. so now the two things are much more. mixed. So quite often I will start, picking up certain things or wearing certain colors because I'm trying to understand them or digest them. So, and then you might see them more in the work, not always, but it definitely, has happened a couple of times.
GTN:I love this idea of a superpower though. This is, and how fantastic to have tutors at that point. in your journey as an artist to say, use this and this doesn't have to be a separate thing,
Bethan:you know? No, definitely. I was very lucky to be, I was like the last, the only two years of Jürgen Bey and Martino Gamper teaching together. It was the last two years of Ron Arad being the head of the school. I think Ron was very like, why should a sculpture be seen as more important or not than a chair so, for me, the two years that I had at the RCA were really fundamental to helping me gain confidence in how to work and learn how to structure my work so that it could come out at the end as something digestible or something that's engaging I love to try and create patterns or forms or spaces that are, um, open enough that different people can interpret them in different ways. For example, previously when I've done a lot of marquetry work with laminates, this is a mass industrial material that lots of people have a memory. It. Connected to, even if they're not, they don't know it at the time, they're suddenly like, Oh, that's my nan's kitchen. You know, it's a material of city and, and it's very connected to mass cultural movements. So I love when I do marquetry patterns with that to, to, that different people start to see different things in my forms and shapes. There's obviously a reference that, that comes from rocks and crystals and things. But I love that some people are like, it's bacteria, some people are like ice cream, some people are like shells, it's finding ways to make the work have a conversation with a person with this kind of emotional thing that is part of what we are, that we have this like, I must have this cup and I want to keep it forever kind of thing, it's that fascination with this unreasonable connection you could say that we we have with objects that even ourselves can't necessarily understand all the time, but you know I, I would say I'm part of the more, I wouldn't say extreme, I'm not a hoarder, but you know, there are different levels. Some people find Zen in no objects or one object. I find Zen in 50 objects,
GTN:but I'm in the same
Bethan:camp, you know, that, that desire or that thing that we have about how they become conduits to do with identity. And so that's why I love when I can make work that Sparks those kind of connections between people. When you
GTN:talk about identity, I mean How do you? How do you feel that you express your identity through fashion? What draws you to certain pieces, for example?
Bethan:In terms of my personal aesthetic for my, my dress sense, I've been into the layering for a long time. For good or for bad. I mean, I've seen some vintage pictures of me where it's like, that thing of taking two things off before you go out, maybe, maybe someone's got that right there. And other times I'm like, yeah, not enough, layer on, layer on. So I like to layer. I like, oversized forms and shapes. I've never been that interested in, like, hyperfeminine, dressing. it's just not for me. but I like to play with stuff. I remember, you know, at secondary school or whatever, when, when, you know, girls were kind of getting into makeup. Which you're not meant to wear at school, and I remember trying to have a debate with my tutor over why I was being made to wash my face because I had technically less makeup on it, it was just more like black, I think I was doing black dot dash kind of cut lines all around my face, and I was like, well this is technically less makeup than that girl who's got like full mascara, eyeliner and lipstick, but I didn't necessarily win the argument, but I did try, So, yeah, I, like, a lot of layering, quite often there's a lot of colour or pattern. I think also texture, especially because I've started to do more textile based works. I really enjoy finding beautiful pieces of texture, textile, weaving. Like, what I'm wearing today is, one of the dresses that I get from, uh, Oaxaca in Mexico. And it's at this one I'm actually wearing inside out. So that's the front side that I'm showing you. Uh, for those who can't see, yeah, it's a podcast. So the, the background is, is woven on a, loom. Um, so that it's like panels and they're stitched together. So it's a very kind of simple shape. But I actually wear this one inside out because I love all these, the tassels that come from the, um, adding the pattern in the pattern strips. Um, so it's my kind of, uh. Hairy, hairy dress woven, hairy dress.
GTN:It's the color for the, for the listeners at home. It is a very vibrant purple. Oh yeah. Sorry. I've lots of, lots of multicolored threads. It's fantastic.
Bethan:So yeah, that's, uh, that's one of my, um, yeah, examples of, of clothing that I buy for both the color and also to understand the, the textile or the weave. I've got Aandra Rhodes scarf on who's one of, one of the. Women I wanted to nod to in my, project because, uh, I think she has, some amazing things in, in the NGV collection and she's a fantastic, textile and fashion designer that's based here in London that I have the pleasure of, knowing a little bit and she's one of these icons she's like always been unashamedly like Zandra, full pattern, full color, all day, all night. Plus she has pink hair and she's just fab. So. you know, icon. So yeah, put a little Zandra on as always. I don't, I, why am I describing what I'm wearing? Because people can't see it. Yes. Okay. Sorry. Very self absorbed right now. Um, and then I have like Izumiaki. That's a great hat. It's like bright yellow. Yeah. And I, I love the, all the pleats please. pieces and I mean, there are a lot of Izumiaki that is patterned, but quite a lot is, um, monocolour or single colour, but it's to do with, um, the depth that you get through the pleating and then the movement of shadow and light on those pleats that create these, you know, um, depth within the pattern. Like this, this mix between two dimensional and three dimensional is something that I find really amazing about his work. And it, and again, it sits within this world between uh, sculptural and wearable, but most, I mean, most of his work is incredibly wearable, like, and they also, like, wash, like, really easy. I think I lost. When I was setting up, something in Miami for Design Miami, I managed to lose one of my hats in the street when we came back very late and I was super tired and I re found it in the morning, ridden over by several cars and a little bit of a hand wash, totally fine. So, you know, I love that you can actually properly wear, um, Izumiaki as well as it look incredibly chic.
GTN:And are you much of a, like a vintage shopper?
Bethan:Yes. I mean, predominantly within clothes, it's normally all, always vintage or, it's like, so for example, these dresses I go to, like when I was a hacker, I could, I bought them directly from, the, the women that make them. And in Mexico city, there's, uh, an artisan. So I go, I try if I'm buying new to be able to buy from the people that have made them rather than, uh, through distributors. And so yeah, Izumiaki is, that's contemporary. So I suppose, I mean, it's predominantly vintage, but then it will be a mix, with, like folk or craft and then like maybe some designer pieces, um, but I've always, yeah, I've always been, um, into vintage clothing and into finding stuff in charity shops and, um, building up aesthetics and looks from this kind of mixing. I think I really enjoy mixing of periods and what happens when you kind of make things in conversation.
GTN:But it's also making them your own as well, which is always great. what sort of planted the seed with you, with design and fashion, like all of these visual kind of ways to express yourself and the world around you. When did that start for you? How young?
Bethan:From as long as I can remember, I've known, I, I've wanted to make stuff I mean, as a very small child, I'd, I'd say I want to be an artist, because it's something I know I, I kind of need to do, want to do, and I think as I grew older and then you start to understand about the nuance of different things that you can do within it. Yeah. creative universes, then I started to kind of focus in more on, on design. I've always needed to create. And then I think I like layers, multiple layers. so if I'm going to be layering up, then why not like do something with those layers. And, um, and I think also at that period in school where, if you're a little alternative or you're not kind of the status quo or like, um, a beautiful cool girl, you might get picked on and so at some point when I was being picked on I was like, well, if you're going to do that anyway, let's just go full tilt. Full tilt. And, uh, like if you thought that was funny, let's go, let's go somewhere else with that. I was very into making hair clips at one point. So I made a lot of like, head decoration as a way to express my, uh, um, identity. did you get people wanting them as well? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I think my mum was telling me this story that like I made. Clips where I stuck different colored pencil sharpeners on clips. And so I could, you know, I could sharpen and make, and then I think my mom got really annoyed when a tutor, a teacher decided or thought that he could sharpen a pencil using my head and she was like, no. That's your head. And if you sharpen a pencil on your head, that's yours. He has no right to touch your pencil sharpener.
GTN:That's a very good lesson in a lot of ways. Yes,
Bethan:exactly. Um, so, uh, but I love that my mum was like, just because it's there doesn't mean that means he has the right to, you know, take the mickey out of you. Yeah. I mean, of course I think of those, levels of, of pushing it, but, I think I just like the absurdity of that. And then I love that like pencil sharpeners that are, you know, it's a mass produced product, but you know, they're quite beautiful when you get them in these like different colors. Pencil sharpeners themselves are really beautiful in shape. So I can see where I was going with that. Whether it was the best look, you know, debatable. I kind of love that. But, um, yeah, it was fun. So I think I, I did a lot of. hair paste explorations at secondary school. And then I think you also, like, for your summer dress, you could buy one or your mum could sew you a dress. You know, you could have that, you could buy that. For school? Yeah, for school. So you could buy the, the, there's like a striped white and green textile. So good on my mum, like, I remember when you go, like, can, can we make a giant doll dress, please? And my mum sewed it for me. We've got the big buttons and, you know, that was my school uniform. So, you know, I also have very supportive parents that were you know, not, Trying to make you conform. No, I mean it wasn't necessarily my dad's favourite thing. Um, but they were never like, you can't do that. I mean, I think it would, if I'd come out in a very tiny, tiny short skirt and maybe, something maybe more provocative, I might have been asked to tone that down. But, the giant doll dress didn't seem to be a problem.
GTN:What I love, is the sense of joy with what you wear and how you present yourself. It must just put smiles on people's faces whenever you walk down the
Bethan:street. Uh, it can do. I mean, you, you do learn whether a small child is going to enjoy a clown at a birthday party or maybe not this year. I remember going to a good friend of mine, um, Francis Hubert Richard, who's a fantastic New Zealand, artist and sculptor. Um, she had a beautiful show at the Barbican and she does these amazing kind of figures. And, and, I think I, I decided I was going to come slightly dressed as one of the figures for her opening. And for some reason, there was one figure I think that was like, with like blue on one side of the face and orange on the other side. So I think I did something in response to this. And that was that one step too far Like about three or four small kids that various mutual friends had had were around one and a bit to two, were all there. And it was like, Ike went over and said hello to one. And they were like, the crying started. Then it was like this ripple of small children just slowly like, cowering in fear. It's like one of the sculptures is like, coming to get them. And I was like, oh no! It's, it's Beth and do you not remember meh? So it's like, ah, okay. Note to self. Yeah, exactly. So with some people they enjoy it, some people not so much. But in Mexico, I get a really great response. So really, that's really, I feel like, um, they're my peeps. Yeah, because the level of color is already at, like, A whole higher place, uh, as a base level in everything from the walls to the floors to the clothing to, yeah. So there I feel like sometimes underdressed, but, I dress up for myself. I'm aware of it now, especially like, so. Within certain contexts of work, like if I'm in my studio and I'm working all day on work and my pleasure of me being something in that day is not part of my day. Then I won't necessarily dress up. I'll be wearing probably leftovers of clothes that didn't work so well that are now my studio clothes, but if I Um, going out and I have time because I'm going out to a nice flower shop or I'm going to a museum or I'm, I'm representing myself and my work, then I really enjoy, being able to play with my aesthetic and, I've become much more, open to it being connected to, to a way for people to, come into my work, even if they come in through how I look, then maybe then they'll look at the work and yeah. Yeah.
GTN:Cause it is really, it's very rare to see an artist and their work that are aligned. You know what I mean? It's just like, you can see a photo of you and your work and you go, well, they married together. Yes. That makes sense.
Bethan:I think, yeah, I mean, there are, there are obviously, except, maybe it's that I, I've kind of gathered myself around more people that are as one, like Xandra, who we've spoken about you know, her and her work are together. but yeah, it's something that I, Work with rather than against, I suppose, now. But yeah, my personal interest in, in being able to play with my aesthetic is, something that I will carry on doing, I think, for a while.
GTN:You've also done a lot of work within the fashion industry. Projects, commissions, that kind of thing. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Um, And do you enjoy that sort of collaboration?
Bethan:Yeah, definitely. In general, I've, found a way for me where I do actually really enjoy those kind of brand collaborations. I've been very lucky within my world and my work where I have The ability to be able to choose which brands I want to work with, or that I've had brands that I really admire ask if I'll work with them. And I'm like, yeah, um, and, and again, it's this dialogue or this conversation that you can get or that you get when you work in collaboration. So for me working with a brand, it's not the same, but it's similar in the sense in the way that I like to work with artisans where there's a lot of conversation back and forth between it. Respecting what makes that brand that brand. And then also, um, that that brand is specifically asking you or in my case, me, to have a conversation with them. And then what would the outcome of that be? And making work that's very specific to, that collab. So within, fashion context, for example, like when Valextra approached me. To work with them I think I'd just recently done another round of Hamez windows, which I loved. So I, because we'd just done windows, I was like, maybe let's do something that's not the store or not the windows. And they were like, okay, do you want to do something on the bag? And I'm like, yeah, let's do, let's go on the product. so, the lecture is, old school Milanese, leather brands. They're predominantly known for their leather bags, but, they are more, uh, minimal or graphic. They're quite strong graphically. And they predominantly always will have like a black edging around, the outline of the, leather work. So I think for me it was really interesting that because they obviously knew that I'm quite maximal and they're quite minimal but I love that they were up for it and then I was like how do I make something that doesn't look like it doesn't belong on the bag but that it's obviously doing something different to what's normal on the bag and I love the idea of working on clasps and handles because this is like the kind of The furniture elements on the bags. And I like this kind of weird micro world of, um, industrial tools and machines that are specific for this scale. That's like larger than jewelry, but smaller than, like furniture and metal hardware that you have on, interiors and furniture. So I was like, okay, that's super, cause I can work with this very specific. world and universe. So I created a series of clasps and handles that kind of took this black outline on a different walk, on a wiggle, from one side of the bag to another and built the graphic of it around the way it's constructed and then the different wiggles would go together to create different types of handles. So the one I think Beyonce is photographed with. It's like a little octopus y one you kind of swing the bag underneath you. Others were, more like, the clasps on top was more like a little sculpture. So I loved, making handles that also... Um, worked in different ways in which people interacted or held the bags. so yeah, that was, a really nice project to do. And, yeah, a few different, fashion brands. Tory Burch I worked with making sculptural pieces to celebrate, the table where they were relaunching with Dodi Thayer. So I enjoy, like, the different briefs that I get from different clients and then finding a way in to create something that maybe I wouldn't necessarily make independently, uh, or it might lead to a whole new body of work that I wouldn't have got to necessarily without that conversation. And I really, cherish those opportunities that, that kind of push you like, for example, with when I've worked a lot with Perijure, which is a wonderful champagne brand, and they have a very strong connection to the Art Nouveau period of time. And I remember when I started working on, on the commission for them originally, and I was trying to find a way in because previously, I'd always maybe connected more with Art Deco, I liked the harder graphic of this. And also because I had an obsession with Mexico, I'd been going there's a much stronger connection to the Art Deco movement. So it was kind of really interesting for me to then almost be faced with a client where I was like, no, now you're going to look at nouveau and learn it and then find a way into it. And, you know, I've carried on with a lot of the curves and the forms and I'm sure that that led me to also maybe be more open or then discover the aesthetics movement, which is a later, British movement that, that has some connections with Nouveau, but it's slightly different and it's more connected to Japan. But I, love how like. Yeah, one opportunity leads you to learn about something else and that can take you down a rabbit hole that can be kind of amazing at the other end.
GTN:And it's also as you say, it can, once you've kind of. It can start influencing other things that you're doing further down the
Bethan:track. Exactly. And I think also as a designer my work is to be in a conversation with other people or it is to have a function it's kind of, if you only, you know, echo off what you know, you, you don't really go anywhere. Um, so yeah,
GTN:I just, I just have to tell you all that are listening, we have the cutest puppy right here called Wilma that you've
Bethan:had for eight weeks. She's actually like a 20 year old lady in dog years. She's three and a half years old. But she's about two months in my company and I am now only for her bidding. and she's very cute. What's the breed again? Japanese Chin.
GTN:Very sweet. And very sleepy. Um, so one, one last question, Bethan. Given that you work in lots of different mediums and with different materials and stuff, would you ever consider a fashion?
Bethan:Definitely. Like pure fashion. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm up for all projects. Come send me an email and we can, uh, we can chat. No, I mean, I, I just love getting to make and create. And the fact that people want me to do that or like want to play with me to do that is like awesome. So, um, yeah, like. I'm up for it.
GTN:Excellent. Well, Bethan, it's been awesome chatting to you today. Thank you so much for joining in fashion.
Bethan:Thank you very much for having me in Wilbur.
GTN:Yes. And she's been very well behaved.
Thank Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends and on social media and rate and review on your podcast platform of choice. You can get in touch via Instagram at infashion underscore podcast. Thanks again for listening until next time