John McQueen's Path to Educational Leadership in Dentistry & Embracing Digital Innovation at Scottish Dental Care

Unlock the secrets to a flourishing dental career with John McQueen, Scottish Dental Care's Director of Education, as he traces his professional journey since his 2015 graduation. Journey with us as we uncover the interplay of fortune and career fulfillment, and delve into how mentorship can powerfully shape the early years of a dentist’s career. John recounts the supportive environment at Scottish Dental Care that propelled him to an educational leadership role, and we discuss the deep satisfaction derived from fostering genuine connections with patients—ensuring their last memory in the dental chair is a smile.

This episode is a goldmine for anyone intrigued by the intersection of technology and mentorship in dentistry, whether you're a fledgling in the field or a seasoned pro. We tackle the hurdles and triumphs of navigating a rapidly evolving digital dental landscape, emphasizing the necessity of continuous learning to keep pace with the latest advancements. Plus, don't miss the buzz about an imminent CPD weekend centered on digital dental innovation and our anticipation for the hands-on workshop at the upcoming dentistry show. John's heartfelt invitation to engage with the dental community underlines a commitment to support and inspire—reach out and discover the collective wisdom that can elevate your career.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to the Dental Jobs Diaries podcast in association with DentalJobscom , a leading job board for dental professionals . Please sit back and relax and listen to some of the thought leaders across the dentistry sector . Hello everyone , I do hope you're keeping well . Welcome to a further podcast , the Dental Jobs Diaries , in association with dentaljobscom . I'm over the moon to have a new guest with us today , john mcqueen , director of education with scottish dental care . John , great to have you on the show . Firstly , how was the weekend ? What's the weather like and what's the football like up there ?

Speaker 2 0:37

more or less . Thanks for having me on . It's an honor and a pleasure to take a chance to chat to you in person properly over over zoom . Yeah , weekend was weekend was great . I was working , sadly , and the weather up here was absolutely glorious and as patients go walkabouts a little bit when the weather comes out , so I did manage to catch the first half of the old firm . I'll probably upset half of the Scottish listeners by saying that it was a good result for me . But yeah , it was good . But no , a work-filled weekend really up in Inverness doing a bit of clinical stuff yesterday as well . So , yeah , back at home and yeah , really excited to get to chat to you .

Speaker 1 1:05

Good stuff . It's obviously great to have you on the show and it'll be really good to get an insight from you and you know your career to date and obviously help listeners as well make sort of more conformed decisions about what they want to do and how they want to start as well . So , john , when did your clinician career start ?

Speaker 2 1:26

I graduated in 2015 . I trained in Glasgow . I've never really been one to wander far from home , grew up and raised in Glasgow , trained in Glasgow and now work in Glasgow . So , yeah , no , I really enjoyed my time at uni .

Speaker 2 1:36

I think lucky I was never really going to speak to some people who are these really inspirational stories about how they they knew from the age of four that they wanted to be a dentist and they totally fell in love with the profession . Um , I wish I could say that . Um , I think now in hindsight , it was really lucky that I fell into what I do . Um , I think when you're so young , you don't really have an idea of you know what it's going to be like , no real clue of what working in a profession like this is going to be like . I was always . I always enjoyed the sciences at school , like the idea of working with my hands , that kind of put two and two together . But a lot of friends and colleagues that I've worked with or went to uni with they don't do dentistry anymore . They've moved away from the profession . It was just by pure chance that I've fallen in love with it and I've got a real passion for it now that I get to do it and really enjoy the day in , day out with it .

Speaker 1 2:19

That's probably the same with a lot of professions , isn't it ? Nobody goes through school saying I want to be a dentist , or I want to be a recruiter or an accountant . It's a case of you know , as you get older and go through education , it potentially steers you in that direction , especially as you mentioned that . Friends and family members so yeah , so 2015 . So I guess what made you choose dentistry ? You ?

Speaker 2 2:50

said you're good with your hands , but is there a particular thing that pushed you in that direction ? Honestly , nothing , really . My mum probably . It's one of those . You get those influences from home . I spent a bit of time doing some work experience between that and a local GP surgery , thinking about going down the route of medicine and just liked the idea of dentistry , seeing how they worked closely with patients . You build up that rapport and almost become like the cornerstone of people's social circle in a way . I really like that social aspect of it . But , as I say , it was mostly just the luck that I've grown to enjoy . I say luck , I guess it is what you make of it sometimes with that . I think the attitude that you have towards further learning and creating a type of environment that you can enjoy your work in it's one of those . If you enjoy what you do , you'll never work a day in your life . Maybe not quite that , but if you enjoy it it's half the battle .

Speaker 1 3:33

I suppose , john , the job that you do , you do make people happy , right . They come in for work to be done and excuse the plunge , but you make sure , sure people leave with smiles on their face , right , and that's the whole . That's the whole aspect , and I suppose the relationship element as well is really important with all the most strong relationships with you know , customers and everything else . So 2015 you started your career , so how does how scottish dental care supported your career and development today and and what's the journey being like with them ? It's obviously you're the director of education now . So what's been happening over the last sort of six , seven years ?

Speaker 2 4:09

It's a great question and I think I've been with Scottish Dental Care for about three or four years now and that really has had a profound impact on my progression in the last three years and it's really , really amplified how things have gone . When I first graduated , did VTE , spent a little bit of time working in Maxfax , actually in the hospitals , and after that first couple of associate jobs I think everyone's the same . To be fair , you come out into the dead bad world , as it were , after years and years of structured education and it can be quite daunting . To be honest . There are so many different courses out there . Everyone tells you theirs is the best . You've got no real clue and I think without proper guidance , as you say , dentistry is a really social career and you get that . But from a clinical side of things it can be quite isolating sometimes and if you don't have the proper people in place mentors , et cetera yeah , you can get a little bit lost and I feel like that's where I was . And then the pandemic hit and everyone takes a little step back , takes a breather .

Speaker 2 5:06

That's when I only enough through a friend got in touch with philip , who's our director of dentistry at scottish dental care . He started doing just a little bit of embezzling work in one of his clinics . Just as a side , we built a fantastic relationship . Phil is , in my opinion , he's , one of the best dentists in the country , so I was really keen to learn from him his experience , his knowledge , his work ethic and everything that really inspired me . And that's when I took the plunge and made the transition to work with Scottish Dental Care full-time . Let's say that was about four years ago .

Speaker 2 5:34

Since then I've had the privilege of working side by side with with Phil in our flagship clinic , and also some of the other clinicians in the clinic are some of the best dentists in the country , so I'm really steeped in . These guys have forgotten more about dentistry than I know , so it's a great environment to learn from . Yeah , everyone is really approachable . They're really keen to share cases .

Speaker 2 5:53

We still , on a weekly basis , all sit down and look at cases together and plan things , and it's a really cliche to say , but a really open door environment , I mean it really nurtures and fosters that that growth in people . So I've loved my time with them . As an aside to the clinical aspect , scottish Dental Care have financially supported me through my master's degree . I'm currently in the first year of my M Clendent in fixed removal prosthetic kings in London and that's something they offer to all their associates as an incentive to not only come and work with us and be part of the family but to push yourself . And we've really got that , that kind of ethos of just keep going and keep trying to be better , not only for yourself but for our patients as well .

Speaker 1 6:31

It's been great my time with them so how was your your working relationship with phil when you first started ? Was there any nerves there ? We'll see how good he is , and not only as a businessman , but as obviously he's a dentist as well .

Speaker 2 6:42

He must have been a bit nervous at the beginning uh , I think to go , and when I was a student , I spent a bit of time in phil's clinic shadowing him . You're going back to 2012 and I was like 21 , 22 years of age and you walk into this clinic like nothing you've ever seen before . These guys are doing things I've never even heard of . I was totally blown away and I remember thinking about it . I came back and spoke to a flatmate and said this place is insane .

Speaker 2 7:04

I would love to work somewhere like that , and it's always been the goal to work , if not , there , somewhere like that , fast forward 10 , 11 years down the line , to be part of that team and accepting referrals from them . It is absolutely see the level of the work that's going on there , but it's again , it's all about that mindset when it's about knowing that , okay , I'm here for a reason and I've got the skills and that that pushes you to be better as well . You see the quality of work that's around you . You learn from that and then progress . And it's no , it's . My dentistry has come on leaps and bounds since I've been working with phil and everyone else in the team , so it's been brilliant it's that famous saying there isn't there , john .

Speaker 1 7:38

Surround yourself with the best and your level will only elevate to theirs . That , for me , sounds absolutely brilliant and things obviously just going in the right direction , which is brilliant , obviously . I know we've touched on this briefly , but we've now moved into into a sort of a non-collision role . So , director of education , that's right yes , yes .

Speaker 2 7:56

So clinical director of education for scottish dental care started that role move it coming up for about 18 months ago , again still predominantly clinical , still work four days a week in the clinic , but this is just a kind of an adjunct to help support the clinicians . That role maybe coming up for about 18 months ago , again still predominantly clinical , still work four days a week in the clinic , but this is just a kind of an adjunct to help support the clinicians within the group . And again , it just came from a conversation with with phil andrew and I . I am a bit of a geek , to be honest , obsessed with all like dental cpd and kind of a courseaholic . I'm always spend . My wife says that to me that I wish you would spend some money on something that isn't teeth related for a change . So it's , I love it and I love chatting teeth with people .

Speaker 2 8:28

We were lucky enough to have some young dentists and some dental students work with us in clinic as nurses and support staff and love spending time teaching and mentoring them as the group grows and has grown , I think we're . We've got maybe 90 to 100 associates now , country , countrywide , nationwide . I said to Phil I feel like we're missing a trick here . We've got such a large hive mind of fantastic clinicians across the country who've all got niches and experiences in different areas of dentistry . Why not try and bring that together into a focal point and create an educational program within the group ?

Speaker 1 9:00

It's something that probably in the country hasn't been done to this scale yet , and yet it's grown arms and legs from there really , and it's just , it's rolling quite nicely so you're , john , essentially you're putting this um clinician course together to bring everyone together to be able to help , support , guide , mentor , and that's going to be you know what you're going to be rolling out . Is that right ?

Speaker 2 9:22

exactly . Yeah , so there's this . It's multifaceted and I always say this to the associates and my colleagues is that it's not a case of my omnipotence over it . I don't profess to know and like anywhere near everything about dentistry , but I've now got protected time to find those answers for people . When people are busy and they're working full-time , they sometimes don't have the time to to do the research on what course is best or who's best to speak to about this . And I'm just a touch point for that .

Speaker 2 9:45

Really we on a regular basis roll out what I think is absolutely world-class CPD from external speakers to our existing associates . So last year we were lucky enough to welcome Andy Chandrapal up to our CPD weekend to speak about toothware . We've got some up-and-coming courses with Linda Greenwall on toothware and then an icon , celine Higdon , is going to come and speak to us about some rubber dam , just trying to provide really high-end CPD for our existing associates . But we're also in the process of putting together a learning and teaching event for VTs and younger dentists , really just to help the transition that I spoke about earlier , that kind of daunting feeling of finishing uni and standing on the cliff edge of the rest of your career and not really know where to go . It's a bridge almost between that and a helping hand from those who've walked the path before them , and I'm really excited about it . I think it's going to be great .

Speaker 1 10:34

No , absolutely . It seems to me you've got onus on this to make it great , which I think is obviously going to be exciting for you . My next question really was going to be you know how rolling out this particular program is going to support vts and those kind of things ? How's that going to work ?

Speaker 2 10:49

so it really is . When I speak to people about it I kind of sum it up as what I wish I had when I finished vt . You come out and you , if you count , you count school , uni and vt . You've got 13 , 14 years of kind of structured education where you really are spoon-fed to a degree . This is what you need to know , this is how we know it and apply it . And then you do , you come out and thank God , the next 30 years until I retire .

Speaker 2 11:11

Here we are , and it can be quite daunting . So really , what we're trying to do is create a structured two-year program which helps guide and encourage that independence over a slightly longer period of time . Really , what we want to do is take all the knowledge that they have from dental school and from vt and just add a little extra step to it across the board , across every discipline of dentistry , whether it be oral surgery , a fixed room , across orthodontics , any anything like that at all . We're going to have a kind of focused fixed day , a blend of in-person teaching and some hands-on , and really just deep dive a little bit more into how does that look when we take it up the next level , come in and spend a bit of time with us in the clinic in shadow and see what we do on a more advanced level day-to-day , and just really create an environment where the young dentists feel comfortable and safe enough to learn , and not only from a clinical point of view .

Speaker 2 12:02

I feel like one of the biggest things I had to learn how to deal with when I graduated was managing failure , and you're so used to doing really well at school , doing well at dental school . When you come out you've never really seen anything fail before . But dentistry's hard and to get good at it is even harder . And I think that's those first couple of years is when you first see that and you come back and go oh god , why am I not brilliant at this ? It's not because you're not good , it's because it's really hard . And being able to speak to someone who's been through those failures , who's walked that path before you , and take a minute and go do you know what ? It's not just me . It lets the shoulders drop , it creates an environment where everyone's comfortable and they can share those experiences , and that's how you learn really .

Speaker 1 12:40

That's just a sign of having that sort of good mentorship right . You've obviously had that with Phil , you've recognised that obviously , and now you're going to be taking that role as well , which is going to be quite exciting . Managing failure Sometimes people don't want to ask questions in this day and age and having that support structure and that I suppose that comfort zone to be able to ask questions , no matter how big or small , and not to feel silly Again that's incredible . I sort of leave that up .

Speaker 2 13:08

That's great in itself , yeah , no , I'm really enjoying it , I'm really looking forward to it as it grows . We have , um , some young associates and some young dentists that I work with already , as I mentioned , and you're right . They say I've got a really silly question to ask and it's all in the response like I've done things 10 times worse than that and you can see the surprise in the face of it , really like what . I tell a couple of stories and you see the shoulders drop and it . Yeah , I think I'm lucky enough to have some really great relationships with with my mentees and with the students , and it's something I really enjoy , to be honest . I get a great deal of kind of rewarding gratitude in it and seeing people progress , and I make a couple of jokes with some of the students . Just a couple of years ago you didn't , you hadn't even heard of what you're talking about now and now you're worrying about the nuances of it . That and that in itself is a progression and you kind of see the wheels turning a little bit yeah , no , absolutely .

Speaker 1 13:54

Hey . Look , we'll know how far digital dentistry has come . We've spoken a lot about it in recent podcasts . But yeah , obviously you know you guys are a massive investor in digital dentistry . Yeah , how has that come , on leaps and bounds since , since you've left uni , and where is it now ?

Speaker 2 14:09

absolutely . That's something I mean I it's probably the prime time in my experience . I've graduated nine years this summer and when it went out at uni it was whispered about . I think there certainly was some variation of digital dentistry out there , cut to now , where I'd be absolutely lost without my scanner . And I do think about it from time to time because a few of my friends who work in different clinics they still don't , they've not made that leap yet and I think I was scanning something the other day and thought , god , obviously we still do use analog things from time to time , but yeah , it is a huge part of my day-to-day practice now and that is something that as a group we've invested a huge amount of time and money and trying to encourage that because the potential with it is phenomenal already and it's only as it's only growing .

Speaker 2 14:49

We have our annual cpd weekend coming up in november and the main focus of that weekend is digital dentistry actually . So we've got some of the leaders in the country in digital dentistry whether it be fixed or removable props coming to give us a few pearls , if you like . Grab all the big digital companies along there , get some scanners out , and we're lucky that most of our associates have got a good ground in that most of the clinics have scanners in place . But again , depending on experience level , there can sometimes be simple barriers there and it'd just be nice to get everyone in a room and say , okay , okay , maybe you don't use the scanner as often , why is that ? Let's correct that and and just spend a bit of time playing with them together and again , it just is learning together in a kind of safe environment yeah , absolutely , and you've got to change even more right , that's it , yeah , it's only .

Speaker 2 15:35

I say this to all my patients and we're still . You get the odd straggler that comes through . It's oh what's the's this scanner ? We don't need to take impressions , so watch this . And they're absolutely amazed by it . And I say to everyone it's a really exciting time to be part of the profession , because it's coming on leaps and bounds at the moment what they're doing with CAD , cam , design , and then there's obviously going to be some huge plays with the introduction of AI things as well . I'm really grateful that I'm at the stage I'm at in my career , because I'm buckled in and looking forward to the future . It's going to be fun .

Speaker 1 16:04

Yeah , no , it is . It's going to be fun for sure . It's always evolving right , and if you can develop while it's evolving , then you're going to be one or two steps ahead , which is great , you guys , the dentistry show , is it the end of May ? End of May , yes .

Speaker 2 16:27

It dental show , so we're always present , always like to get our finger on the pulse of what's happening within the profession up here and get to meet some colleagues and associates . A colleague of mine , andrew coolbard , and I are doing a hands-on workshop on placement of dental dam . Some tips and tricks , a little hands-on course with that , so I'm really looking forward to it . Again , it's just letting , I guess , that the community and dentistry know that we're there as much , as a huge element of the educational program that we're putting together is for our associates . It's opened up to the wider dental community as well and it's every course that we run is scottish dental care first , and if we don't fill those spaces or the spaces , then everyone is more than welcome .

Speaker 2 16:56

Again , I'm a big fan of sharing that knowledge and experience with each other . Like sometimes , certain areas in dentistry can be a little bit toxic and a little bit selfish . Sometimes you can see that on Instagram , on Facebook . I think we as a profession have a kind of onus and a responsibility to each other to try and break those barriers a little bit and just open things up and share it , because it's the patients that are going to benefit at the end of the day , and there are more than enough of them to go around for everyone , so there's no need to be greedy yourself with the knowledge . We should be trying to lift each other up , and that's really what we're going to do when we go to the dental show , and I'm really looking forward to it . So that's absolutely spot on .

Speaker 1 17:34

Patients are the heart of your business , right , and if you could help more and more patients by including more people to come in and learn , then then yeah , that's great to hear . So what day are you on the dentistry show ?

Speaker 2 17:45

So we are there . Friday , the 31st of May . We'll be there . We've got a stall there , but Andrew and I are presenting at half past 10 , I think and Phil and one of our other colleagues , graham Kerr , are doing a little hands-on restoring dental implants as well , which should be brilliant .

Speaker 1 17:59

I'm really looking forward to that so , john , obviously you've got a lot of experience now . You've progressed , you've grown and got some exciting stuff happening . What does the future hold for you ? Obviously , scottish dental care . I know it's a big question to ask . Where do you see yourself ?

Speaker 2 18:15

it's a great question . It's again . It's one that my my wife probably wishes you didn't ask . It's a struggle to sit still with it , to be honest , and I think she's . She says that should we ever be satisfied with it ? We ever be happy with it , and I am , but it's never enough . I think every time I get up holding something that I'm getting comfortable with and enjoying , it's right . Okay , on to the next thing , not disregarding what I've been doing before , but just adding to it and building with it . I think obviously I've still doing my master's at the moment .

Speaker 2 18:41

It's the first year of four years in the implant down in King's and maybe naively , when I took that on , I thought it was going to be a bit of a scoosh and it was definitely a lot more work than I thought it was going to be . So that's probably going to occupy a lot of my time . I'm really excited to be spending more time as the group grows , spending more time with our younger dentists and the kind of EP plus one step into one's course for younger dentists launches officially in September and that will be rolling out on a monthly basis and we'll be doing as much of that teaching in-house and in-person as we can . So I'll have a huge part to play in that and I really can't wait for that . But in terms of growth beyond that , the clinic which I work in Heinlein with Phil , which I work in Heinlein with Phil , is expanding .

Speaker 2 19:20

At the end of the year we're going from five clinics to 11 . So I'll be picking up some more time there . And , yeah , just as much as I have gained a lot of experience over the last 10 years , I'm nowhere near the first article and I just every case that I take on I'll learn something new from and I'm really enjoying that journey . So it's just a case of trying to get a little bit better every day . Maybe a bit of a negative quote on it , but it's . Someone once said to me you never win , you just do a little bit better each time .

Speaker 1 19:45

I can't like that . There's going to be many people listening to this podcast , john , and there's going to be many people that are going to be sitting back being quite inspired about your journey so far and what you've achieved , and also not sitting on the balls and want to take your masters , have them to support them , get them to care to do . That's fantastic in itself , but wanting to continue to learn and develop , I think it's brilliant , and any VTs associates coming in , I think they're going to really benefit from your experience and kind of calmness in terms of being able to help and support them . We see it in many sectors People don't ask to help because they feel like they either seem to be failing or they seem to be asking the wrong questions or they're having that sort of support blanket there to be able to ask someone something or anything . It's great and I think you identified that and that's obviously why you put this programme together , so this is all credit to you .

Speaker 1 20:42

My last question today really is what's the best thing about Scottish dental care ? Probably the toughest question you're going to answer today .

Speaker 2 20:50

Yeah , it's a really good question . For me personally , and having worked through a myriad of different practices in the years leading up to working with Scottish dental care , I think the context that frames my answer is that working within groups or corporates or bigger groups of practice still maybe less now , but still has a bit of a stigma around it and everyone thinks that you're just going to be another cog in that wheel I can say with my hand on heart that I've never felt more valued , both as a clinician but as a person as part of this group . The relationships that I've built and been part of in the last couple of years have absolutely changed my life . They've changed how I view dentistry . They've changed how I practice and live on a day-to-day basis , and I genuinely don't think I would have been able to do that without scottish dental care . I've made some friends for life , and the impact that I'm able to have on the next generation of dentists is something that I'll never really take for granted . So no , I absolutely love it .

Speaker 1 21:44

John McQueen , it's been great to have you on the show . It's been endearing to hear about your experience , your passion for the sector and I think many people coming through are going to benefit from it . And obviously , hopefully many people will see you practice at the show as well at the end of the month . So that'll be , that'll be great , but it's been brilliant to have you on . Hopefully we can have you back on Dental Job Stars again soon . But again , thanks so much and I look forward to getting to Ed shortly .

Speaker 2 22:08

Thank you so much . It's been very much appreciated and I'm more than happy to come back on . Just a little message to any of the listeners If you do work with Scottish Dental Care , you know where I am . If not , if there are any young dentists or associates out there that want to chat to me about anything at all , just drop me a little DM on Instagram . My handle is drjohnmcqueen . Nothing too big or too small . I'm happy to chat if there's anything you want to reach out to .

Speaker 1 22:32

Fantastic , brilliant Thanks . So much , john . Thank you .