Know What Motivates You with Bo and Cartwright | Ep 146

In this episode, Bo and Cartwright explore the motivations of young Christian men, discussing the complexities of identity, ambition, and the quest for happiness. They delve into the four primary motivations—money, power, pleasure, and fame—and reflect on personal experiences that shape these motivations. The conversation emphasizes the importance of being present, the role of community, and the need for grace in navigating life's challenges. Ultimately, the hosts encourage listeners to evaluate their motivations and seek fulfillment beyond external validation.

Takeaways

Understanding what truly motivates us can lead to clarity.
Money, power, pleasure, and fame are common motivators.
External motivations often lead to emptiness.
Recognizing the influence of culture on our motivations is crucial.
Fatherhood brings new challenges to identity and motivation.
Happiness is often tied to our relationship with the Creator.
Being present in the moment is essential for fulfillment.
Ambition should not overshadow the importance of relationships.
Living in the tension of faith and life is a continuous journey.
Community and grace are vital for personal growth.

Sound bites

"Money, power, pleasure, and fame."
"What motivates you?"
"We all seek the same things."


Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Journey of Young Christian Men
02:59 Understanding Core Motivations: Money, Power, Pleasure, and Fame
05:48 Personal Stories and Reflections on Motivation
09:12 The Role of Recognition and Identity in Motivation
12:07 Navigating the Challenges of Fatherhood and Identity
15:07 The Quest for Happiness and the Role of the Creator
17:55 The Importance of Being Present in Life
20:56 Finding the Right Motivations in Your 20s and 30s
23:57 The Tension Between Ambition and Contentment
27:07 Living in the Tension of Faith and Life
29:54 The Importance of Community and Grace
33:04 Conclusion: Embracing the Journey with Grace

Keywords

Christianity, motivation, young men, identity, happiness, fatherhood, community, grace, ambition, presence

Transcript

Bo Morgan (00:00.576)
Welcome everybody. Thanks again for joining Cart wright and I on Men Are Forged. This is episode three.

Yeah.

But you and I have had like 500 episodes that we've had together before this. Yeah. So Cartwright and I have had years and years of these kinds of discussions where Cartwright's kind of helped me dissect a lot of what we'll talk about in this. But so what the first two episodes really kind of the core of what we're getting to is Christian young men and their twenties and thirties that are a lot like me and a lot like Cartwright in that.

It's in the...

Bo Morgan (00:38.242)
You're a Christian and you believe in Jesus. You love Jesus, but you're still a little confused. There's still things in the world that, you know, maybe you thought growing up in church that, Hey, I should actually kind of have this figured out because I'm a Christian. And what we find is in, you know, the world is a pretty confusing place. Probably, especially for Christians in a lot of ways, but just seeking the, some of the answers behind that. And we'll get super deep sometimes. Sometimes we won't be deep at all.

Okay.

Bo Morgan (01:08.398)
But anyway, so today we wanted to talk about really what motivates us as young Christian men, understanding that what we think motivates us may not actually be the core of what motivates us, which can lead to a lot more confusion.

Yeah. I think there's something to naming it that I think we don't as men sometimes, there needs to be an evaluation of what truly deep down motivates me. We could say all the right things, the good things, Fight family and fitness. Right?

That's what I live by.

No offense to you F3 guys. No offense, but I think, think that those three things are important. I'm not, not, not to knock, but, there is like, all right, what actually, you know, what's the other one? God, God, family and country. That's right. Hey, these colors don't run. Yeah. America.

pick up on that.

Bo Morgan (02:12.152)
country.

Priestley.

But no, yeah, think naming it, claiming it, what is that's really motivating me in this area of my life, whether dating, business, yeah, career, financially, whatever, right? Why do I keep doing these things, sometimes end up with the same result and not realizing, deep down. And so I'll tee it up a little bit as I some of y'all, I recommend you, if you're in a...

social media person following Arthur Brooks way back when, or sorry, Arthur Brooks, because way back when I had two thoughts at once, sorry guys, tends to happen. He's a present day guy and way back when 15 years ago, I read his book. He's got famous being an economist. It's called Road to Freedom, great book. I'm talking about really how capitalism has been the key thing the last 100 years that get people out of poverty.

the current president.

Cartwright Morris (03:18.53)
But he's kind of transitioned and he's a professor at Harvard and talks about happiness. And he's a devout Catholic and he talked about St. Thomas Aquinas. When we really break it down, there's really four things that motivate us as men. Money, power, pleasure, and fame or recognition. And kind of evaluating that, really what deep down, motivates us in life that you can kind of put, those are kind of four umbrellas in my mind.

MotivHU that we all lean towards one of those four. Money, power, pleasure, and recognition or fame is one way to look at it because obviously we all know there's multiple levels of fame, right? Yeah.

What were they again?

Cartwright Morris (04:03.883)
So.

Yeah, Beau. mean, there's so many ways we can go with this, I mean, maybe start with my own personal story in some ways, right? It's like you, growing up in a very strong Southern Christian environment, there can be a lot of external things around that. When there's a strong culture, when you're in a strong culture, you generally go with the flow of that culture. You know, the world I live, you you similar is like, okay.

The guy, the men that got the most or the young men that got most of the attention were good athletes, especially football players. So I gravitated towards that. you think that, that's what's going to, you could put language on it. That's going to save me. That's going to make me feel more secure, which is maybe a more money thing. Give me a level of control that

be recognized.

Cartwright Morris (05:01.678)
I, because I feel lack gives me level control. That's power. Right. Yeah. Or even pleasure. There's a level of pleasure in obviously I think in, playing sports, winning. Yeah. And you can chase that thing. generally a lot of times I look back on my life and you, think, man, now I'm like, I'm really glad I didn't get that thing. Yeah.

winning.

Cartwright Morris (05:28.27)
You know, I would have been, for lack of a better term, arse. In case of any PG-13 and under her listening.

Cartwright Morris (05:43.501)
Ha

Exactly. So anyway, but yeah, arrogance will come in when you don't realize the thing that's motivating you. I have to become this thing. Yeah. Success in business. Get this raise. Be with this girl. Right. X, Y, Z. We don't name and claim that like, that's an external and generally external motivations don't work out.

I mean, there's some people that they make it happen, but there's an emptiness. Think a little bit what we talked about last time. Like when there's an internal driver, there's an internal prioritization of what really matters. can, the results don't even come as much in obsession. They're not the, they're not the, the piece on the other side of this fence, right? They're the, internal piece that goes, okay, this is what I'm about. This is who I am.

kind of in the midst of failure, realize I'm not these things, I'm gonna stop trying to be those things, but what's gonna drive me, right?

Yeah, I can absolutely. I've had, I'm 33 now, but I've had probably four or five different times that I can list off right now that are like things I'm really glad I didn't get what I wanted. Especially in, I mean, this is, I guess, talking specifically about career. Like I've had companies I've worked for in my twenties that, know, specifically like the tech companies, you know, are like, man, if we can just get it big enough, big enough, big enough and sell it. Right. You know,

Bo Morgan (07:20.674)
then we'll be good. And man, I'm super, super thankful that God did not give me that because I wouldn't be where I am today with the relationship I have today. And I probably wouldn't have, I would have a really bad perspective probably on the remainder of my life. Had I gotten those things. One of the things that I've like, I've really, and you taught me this, the is the maturity that you kind of learn through your twenties and maybe even your thirties too.

to say the prayer that requires so much faith in that, God, if this is not you, then I don't want it, even though I really do feel like I want it.

I'm to head down this road, but please God, throw up a sign, a red light, a blockade.

And then at the very end you say, I really want it. please. I do that all the time. really do. really do. And it's wild.

people that's like, man, God let me have everything I wanted. And it was, and now I have a better perspective because I got it and I realized it wasn't the thing I really wanted. Yeah. And I think going back to Arthur Brooks and even his mentioning Thomas Aquinas is like, deep down these desires, these motivations, they are actually an internal

Cartwright Morris (08:42.702)
quest for the divine, that we have something written in our DNA by the Creator to really want the things of Him. But those things get twisted, as we all know. The context of the enemy can't create anything new, so he just twists the good stuff. I mean, you see it with morality all the time. Going back to what I said about being in the Southern Christian culture is sometimes being that nice person, being a nice guy is like

the chief motivation. want everybody to receive me well. It's like I said, living my life through the eyes of other people, how they receive me, know, my being clever, engaging, and then you could kind of have low-grade, almost like manipulation, if there's a person that doesn't receive me well, how do I actually get them to, it's like when they were just making a face.

Yeah, and it's so again, it's so interesting to me that that can be How that actually is selfish yeah Because you know what I mean? It's like well, I'm trying to please this person I'm trying to you know trying to please so that they'll like me. Well, you're doing it so that they'll like you Yeah, you know which is flipped like it's right now, but that isn't very interesting

Yeah, which I think gets to the identity question. Am I living my life depending on how I think about myself according to the stranger? Yeah, I think that's where I felt really convicted because I think it got to the point where it was like a...

Yeah. You know?

Cartwright Morris (10:25.182)
One, fruit of it was anxiety, depression, insecurity everywhere I went. Right? And I think sometimes, for some people that leads to addictions like, hey, I can't be myself in this room because I'm constantly afraid of what other people think me and therefore I'll drink too Let me numb it. Which I've been there.

Yeah.

But you think get to the point where you really start that exercise to walk into a room and that's just something I had to really do and challenge myself in. If somebody didn't laugh, smile, or think I was the greatest thing ever, how can I just sit in the awkward disappointment going, that's okay.

That's them. They could be dealing with something else that could not be feeling well. Or maybe they just didn't like me. You know what? That's okay. You get five guys in a room and it's going to be hard for all of to get along. And then I think what we were transitioning to is what's interesting is young dads is the thought of like...

Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (11:33.292)
Now this belief system of, this child is an extension of me. How people perceive them is how they perceive me.

So how can I make him the superstar and whatever he's doing?

Yeah. Which I think there's a tension obviously is, okay, yeah, I want my son to be polite, considerate of others, be present in anywhere he is and not act a fool of you, and understand the different context situations. Yeah. But then also then there's, you like you said, like he is, how do I? Right.

elevate him above all the others in the way that people view this.

Yeah, my identity is tied to how people interact with him. you're like, ooh, that gets real gross.

Bo Morgan (12:20.056)
So do you think all that is tied to the recognition piece of what St. Aquinas kind of says what motivates us? Yeah. think that's kind of recognition in a way.

Yeah.

Yeah, mean maybe recognition where people leave. Maybe that's my motivation. People leave and go, know that car? That car, he's a great guy. You know what? You know? you kind of like reputation kind of thing. Which is think a little thing off of fame for sure.

Probably get some pleasure from that too though, right? Yeah.

That's what's interesting listening to Arthur Brooks talk about it. It's like we all kind of have all four. Yeah. But there's one that we lean towards the most.

Bo Morgan (13:05.856)
And there's situations that can hit more than one. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, he said something else interesting in there too that I don't want to go down like a super deep rabbit hole, but I just thought it was really cool how your desire for something more like, so in this case, everybody's motivated for some result. Right. And so a lot of times that can be like,

100 %

Bo Morgan (13:34.074)
We can be confused by that because we're thinking, well, we're motivated to make more money, which will make me happy. But really what we're looking for is the happiness. We're not necessarily looking for the money, even though we have to have money, but we're looking for that thing that's tied to the thing that we're going for, which ultimately is all tied to our creator. He's the only one that can provide those things. And he made a really good point. was Arthur Brooks.

that just the fact that we have that desire for something like that proves that there is a creator. Yeah. Because if you didn't, he used the example of, if you're hungry, it proves that there's an existence of food because you have something in you that desires it, which in this case, because you have motivation, it proves that there's something more and that something more has to be a creator. Anyway, super deep.

out there. We don't have to stay there long but I just thought that was really interesting.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's something... Excuse me.

Yeah man, that is a deep one that I think is neat. I think it's needed because I think you're right. think there is like, alright, that's why I say evaluate it because there is something redeemable. I think whatever you're really going after, but to your point, it can't be tied to that result. Because if you believe that happiness is tied to that certain result, then you'll miss it.

Bo Morgan (15:07.33)
You're missing the point. Yeah.

And you won't get it. It actually will be disappointment, frustration, even depression, anxiety. But if your goal is like, like you said, happiness, if your desire is to be, yeah, like, I don't know. A great context is, all right, if it's money. It's like, all right, there's something about me earning, building, creating wealth.

at the end of the day is that there a piece that I'm looking for behind that? Respect? Yeah, so... Identity? Yeah, identity. like you kind of like, all right, if I'm in pursuit of that, I think that's what's going to get me that.

Yeah

Bo Morgan (15:48.064)
Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (15:55.086)
then why do I think that is what's gonna happen? You know, we talked about it last time. I'm just like, man, there's so, how many people we know that are super rich, but like, they're worse people. Unhappy, you know. I was like, yeah, I I used the example of Brad Pitt. It's it's wild. think many of us from the outside in think Brad Pitt's a one. He's got it all.

Yeah, it is.

Bo Morgan (16:09.838)
extremely unhappy people

Cartwright Morris (16:22.84)
But you know, guy went to rehab not too long ago, right?

That's going be extremely lonely feeling when you get to what you think is going to, we can, we'd said it last week. When you get the thing that you think is going to provide all the happiness and peace and, then it doesn't. And then you're standing there by yourself because all the people that you cut down on the way. Yeah. You know, that would be a really miserable place to be. I would imagine. Yeah.

And I think we've been around people constantly and they're just who are.

probably aware of that feeling but they hadn't gotten the place of, alright let me try a different route, let me try something different, let me eventually evaluate this. I'll say one example that as men maybe stands out more than others can almost wrap all four of these into it is his title, right? Like I'm working towards ex-title at ex-company, I've been here, I've paid my dues and with the title comes recognition, it comes some level of power and control.

Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (17:29.488)
And then obviously the money comes. And even some type of like pleasure in it, you But there's some, yeah, I think that's something to just kind of sit through and think about. like having letters next to your name or you know, some like C-suite type, you know. And you're just a little bit like interesting. So, I don't know, that's one that's kind of out to me.

You know, I even thought as a young man, like, man, once, you if that ever happens, then, you know, the word we use is made it or feel calm.

Well, it's funny how like, so if you're okay. So in my simple mind, like you think about, how, you know, how this all could affect performance, you know, like in your job or whatever you're doing. And, um, I was a football coach for years in my early twenties and, I coached in college for a few years and coached wide receivers and the guys, I would have really talented guys that had a lot of skills, but if they played tight or

if they played for a certain result or if they had a certain thing that they had to have, had to have certain amount of catches a game, I got to hit this yardage, yardage, ball stone or whatever. They never got it.

But once they let that go and just kind of played free and just said, Hey, you know what? what's going to motivate me now instead of reaching those goals that are selfishly going to serve me, I'm actually going to try to be a better teammate to the guys around me and actually understand how my role in this play affects the other 10 roles in this play around me. Almost every single time they would reach their goals. Yeah. You know, so I'm wondering if it's, you know, guys in their twenties and thirties,

Bo Morgan (19:19.47)
and I'm certainly like the study piece for this is like, man if you just like.

kind of gave yourself some grace. Yeah. And maybe you do it so much for the money or the pleasure, but you did it more for the relationships around you and for the fun of the process and the journey that you're in. I bet you would be, whatever that level of success is, I bet you would probably exceed whatever you had in mind before with that being the primary motivator. Yeah.

100 % Going back to the sports analogy and of course I think I've mentioned this before is Yeah, I mean going back to last dance. I mean is Somebody I want to say it was biographer or maybe his manager somebody said about Jordan like he was the most present person Like any no matter he was the situation was never too big because he was so present in it He just like showed up for the game day and site. Yeah cut loose

Sports.

Bo Morgan (20:26.446)
That's weird, I would have thought the exact opposite of that. Yeah. I would thought he would have like obsessed with the result. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, he was so present and I think that's a thought to really going back to echo what you said, Bo. There's something too in your 20s like, all right, I'm constantly thinking about what could be next. When am I going to meet my wife? When am I going to make X or when am I going to get the red? Constantly and then.

Press press press press press I did that

It can create the thing that you don't want. that's a, you're a nervous, anxious, you know, burnout. I mean, that's where you get to the point where we have the midlife crisis, But it's like, yeah, but I think how do I become a more present person? I think anybody we've been around, we admire and look up to, they're probably more present.

Yeah, yeah.

Cartwright Morris (21:25.134)
they're there, like, I'm not looking around you for the more important, right?

Great listening.

Bo Morgan (21:30.638)
Have you ever been to lunch with somebody and they them to my walks in? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

awful. I probably did that. I know I've done it and some of it is my AADD where I'm like, no that's not AADD.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can tell when it's not that yes 100 % telling it's just like who else can I talk to yeah, yeah

Yeah, can this this conversation is not going where I want it to go right? Yeah, let me think of somebody else right? How can I end this move on the next thing? Yep. Yeah, that's sad, but it's yeah, it's a real reality that unfortunately

Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (22:09.998)
Yeah, I don't know. So how do we find, I think, the right motivations?

Well what advice would you give for somebody in their mid-20s that's just kind of confused? They're a Christian, you know?

And they're looking, you know, they have the same things that we've been talking about and it's all like those things can be good. Like working hard and having a goal and trying to achieve those goals. We're not saying that's a bad thing, but when you make it the only thing or like the, you make it the part of the equation where this is going to equal me being happy, I think that's where things are can get messed up. So what would you say somebody that's 27 and then that's kind of confusing.

No. Yeah.

Bo Morgan (22:56.086)
in this right now.

Yeah, how do I get past the... I part of it is understanding you and your personality and what motivates you, also, like, how do get past thinking this is the waiting period? This is the holding pattern until I get to the place where I actually will be happy.

That's interesting. god, I've been there. Yeah. I've definitely been there. Yep.

you go through the motions and you end up missing stuff. You end up not appreciating the relationships. end up just, yeah, how do I create a holding pattern where I'm just like, just safe enough. it's yeah, be where your feet are. Yeah, that's a great line.

your feet off. Yeah, yeah, that's tough.

Cartwright Morris (23:41.292)
do you yeah how do you really let I hate to work use the word destiny that's not necessarily right but yeah in a sense of like let destiny chase you versus you chasing it you know yeah

So instead of like my whole purpose in existence is to strive and meet these goals so that can be viewed a certain way or I can experience a certain amount of pleasure or I can have a certain amount of money. It's not necessarily that it's man in my 20s, in my 30s, 40s, 50s, whatever. How can I?

in this meeting where I am today or in this conversation that I'm having today, how can I add value to this relationship or how can I help this person? And I know that sounds super churchy and kind of cheesy, but I think it's true. How can I...

How can I really add value where I am today, where my feet are today? And that's hard. And I know that that's been really hard for me. It's still hard for me. Especially for young guys that are ambitious and want to achieve those things. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's a great thought and trying to find that balance, that tension is I think is why we're having this podcast, this conversation, because it's you know, it's a thing that you're working out your whole life. think it's, yeah, giving yourself grace that you're not achieving the things you thought you achieve, but also just showing up. I mean, there's something really great and successful about people who are just willing to show up, show up in people's lives, show up to work on time, do what you need to get done.

Cartwright Morris (25:28.268)
You know, but yeah, I don't know. you know, I've talked about personality can influence this, culture can influence this. Sometimes it's like just even who you're surrounding yourself with. I mean, I know as we're both millennials, there was like this motivation of like, you know.

the unicorn startup world of like, man, I can have the world-changing idea and become a billionaire. you're like that mindset or I could, know, or man, I preach so good, could lead a mega church. And it's all about, what is it, recognition, power, you know, money, all that, those things, right? And, you know, thankfully I think this next generation has a different bent to it. They haven't seen that or been around that.

they see the flaw in it but it is interesting it you just kind of like all right who around me is part of show me the five best people you know your five closest friend and I'll show you you are kind of thing yeah it's like who is around me isn't people who are constantly living that foot on the gas constantly achieving or is it people that are more present it's like you know who who want to grow

be better in their career and their family life but don't obsess everything all their energy around it.

I don't know. I feel like a common theme probably for our this our discussions in this podcast is gonna be is because I feel like it's true for Christianity. Yeah, it's constantly finding the tension. Yeah, and two things that are true.

Cartwright Morris (27:07.182)
Which I would say, yeah, most Christians aren't willing to embrace that. It has to be black and white because black and white is safer.

Yeah.

Bo Morgan (27:15.822)
That's how works.

It's it is safer. It's like don't do this do this. I mean, it's why people are come out of You know a very religious background and hate it because it was so rigorous like no alcohol You know like or no, you no instruments. Yeah, this is like What what about the Bible or anything you've read makes you think know that know that you know, it's like, you know It's wild. It's wild like

Thanks

Bo Morgan (27:46.37)
Yeah.

You know, or you're a less than if you don't

you had sex before marriage or something, know, stuff like that. It's just like, you know, it's, it's, you know, we, Jesus came as not as a moralist. He came to pick apart the moralist culture, which is a lot to think about. Sadducees and Pharisees, these guys that have this standard and Jesus goes, like, know, there's right here.

high ground.

He's like, if you really and he actually said it in Matthew five, which is wild. If you want to be great in the kingdom, be better than the Sadducees and Pharisees. Meaning they think they've got it all figured out by being black and white. Do this. Don't do that. Do this. But it's like, no, they don't because they don't want to live in the tension. They don't want to live in the unknown. They don't want to live in the, know, it's like advising a baby boomer who his

Cartwright Morris (28:46.032)
kids are rebellious or left-wing or atheist or something and he's like, you know, it's like I've heard this argument before of like, man, what happens if they come and we just end up, you know, they won't listen to anything we say and it's like, well, just have an ongoing conversation, be in relationship with them. But I think so many people, it's like we gotta come to the finite end. It's like, well, a lot of the stuff is still being worked out, you know, it's still in

And I don't mean as in truth as being worked out, I think that is established. It's being worked out in us. So coming to a conclusion, a finite ending or result like we've been talking about with anything is just a waste of time in a lot of ways.

Yeah, I always have this mental image of asking Jesus, hey, is it this or this? And he'll just say yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, what? No, you didn't answer the question. Yeah. Yeah, you know that's true.

Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (29:54.402)
And so I would say what motivates you? I think one way to understand motivations is what's the fruit of some of those motivations. The way I've looked at it, it's like, this me pursuing this thing and being motivated for this? Does it create anxiety? Does it create insecurity? Does it create a distance from the people?

And it can even be something that started out with really good fruit and then the devil the enemy will kind of perverted into something else every time right? Yeah, because I want to provide for my family, right? want to do I want to do I want to create a safe environment for my wife and my son which over time can turn into I Want more money? So it started with a thing that is with a bad thing, but yeah

Oh well that's not enough.

Cartwright Morris (30:41.794)
That's a tension that that conversation I've had, that question that think someone's asked me before, you well what's enough? I mean, it's a great question. It's like, yeah, what is enough? It's like, well, I mean, I just love it where there's an environment that my sons can grow up in and be thriving and, you know, you know, that's where you're like, yeah, what is enough? And so, know.

Yeah.

You you like the idea of more money. Is there more comfort and safety in that? Sure. But if that's my chief motivation, then it'll be the thing that ruins me, Right? Yeah, the thing that I'm doing for my family can take me away from my family. Wait, this is who I'm doing it for. Right? So I love it.

attention. Yeah.

Bo Morgan (31:31.788)
You probably look up and you're 55 and you're like, what?

Exactly. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, Beau, but I don't know if anybody's seen the... I won't do a sports analogy this time. I'll do a TV entertainment. Well, crap. Never mind.

I only understand sports now.

Try anyways.

You ever see the show Breaking Bad? yeah. Yeah, Walter White.

Bo Morgan (31:55.752)
That's a great example.

Something about the ending of that movie or that show that really just like it's something led to this internal like resolution in you they're like I mean that felt so good as a viewer as a consumer of this of this show of like for the whole show he was I Need you know he bark at his wife. You know everything I'm doing I'm doing for this family You know and she would just roll her eyes and she knew is disingenuous and at the end when he is gonna do his last little

I'm trying not to make any spoilers. I mean come on. Anyway, come on. Yeah, well he's gonna make his last little thing, you know, charge or right his last little wrong and but he goes to see his wife and and he kind of starts that same sentence and you the cameras on the wife and you start seeing her just kind of like roll her eyes and

Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (32:52.044)
like you know I just need you to know I did this and he goes and she's like and he goes I did it for me and under in articulating that like

that sin, that driver, that thing that's like, I did all of this for myself. I said it was for this, but really I did it for me. It's like, man, that was something really like, it was like so powerful. But I think it just something about like when I started the episode, was like, like just naming it, naming that thing. And therefore how do I then write that? How do I still live in that tension and try to, or just

At least know it's there. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of times we'll just like push it onto the rug. Yeah. Yeah. And say, no, I really am doing the right thing. I'm trying to do this for my family. Now say it out loud. You're not. You're doing this so that you can feel better about yourself and get the respect you want and all these things. Absolutely. It's obvious to everybody else. Yeah. Except for us.

Yeah, money, pleasure, recognition,

100 % and that's 100 % and so when you can name it I think that's where the invitation to the divine to the Holy Spirit to convict you go okay how God how do you redeem this yeah how did I get so far off track how do I bring it back to something that you've called me but I think that's that's that continual conversation I think

Bo Morgan (34:18.36)
Yeah.

Bo Morgan (34:23.757)
Well, it's so important to have that conversation. Like if you don't kind of massage that muscle over and over again, I don't know if it's weekly or whatever, like having somebody.

to like that kind of shares and experiences with you that maybe has some of the same experiences as you is willing to bring it to light too that you can kind of flesh it out with is huge in your twenties and in your thirties. So we're all, we've all got, we're all from the same place. You know what I mean? We're all seeking the same things. Men are not that unique, right? Like I would imagine like for you guys that work in the center, like when you meet with a 20,

five-year-old you probably know what three or four yeah right yeah you're not like I've never heard that one

Yeah

Yeah, and I think it's part of my job is to like I think so many people they'll share their struggle or deal with and they're expecting a shock factor and you're just kind of like yeah, okay Yeah, that sucks. Yeah But it's maybe a good like call to action here and just to your point, but it was maybe move it like alright Yeah, how who am I surrounding myself with? It's maybe a couple steps ahead of me to my I'm meeting with regularly. Well, that's monthly quarterly daily, whatever, you know, or and then also my peers

Cartwright Morris (35:46.42)
somebody around me that we're both growing in that same direction. Give yourself grace. That's probably a good one. How do I be more present on a daily and everything I'm doing, know, whether it's going to the church or go to exercise, work, you know, I think yeah. And then like how do I put into practice a level of self-evaluation in my time with God or my time with others.

Yeah.

think is that kind of wrap it up?

Yeah, honestly, it's I so and I'll say it but the call to action really is to meet with somebody like you really need to sit down and and and guys like us early finding somebody that really is Versed in this and understands it and has had the conversations before like you yeah that like you can come sit where Cartwright for however long and just hey Let me just kind of throw this against the wall and then you know

me kind of organize it in my brain because a lot of stuff man the big one of the biggest things I've learned from you especially I've never really understood the term of like though you need to give yourself grace because I'm always working in my mind yeah this is more of like a evangelistic message I guess but it's something that I've needed to hear throughout my 20s and my 30s it's like it's not by works it's by grace yeah it's not by works it's by grace yeah wake up the next morning it's not by works it's by grace Ephesians 2 8

Bo Morgan (37:18.096)
And it's a daily reminder. It's something that's fleshed out. But what you taught me was, you actually need to give yourself some grace. Which to me was like, what do mean? I'm getting all the grace I need. I can be hard on myself because Jesus gives me the grace I Which is kind of a tormenting place to be when you're like, not gonna beat myself up because I'm not necessarily trying to perform for Jesus.

understand it's not by grace or not by works it's by grace but but I can be hard on me yeah you know yeah and that's a that's a really unhappy place to be yeah and it's really not fun to be married to I would imagine you know she's like you need to stop being so hard on yourself yeah I know I'm not the only one like that you know I mean it's guys that are ambitious and want to do things in their career

Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (38:13.966)
And we're not at the place we think we need to be, so therefore there's something we're doing wrong and we're failing and we're not measuring up. it's, I mean, maybe another way to phrase it is some people say preach the gospel to yourself every day. I mean, because it is. The only way we can give ourselves grace is because he first gave us grace. He is the one who poured out his grace on us. So then we can go, okay, I may not be where I want to be.

Yeah.

Cartwright Morris (38:40.846)
This is cheap, there's a cheesy line that goes with that. I may not be where I want to be, I'm better than I was or something. You know, something like that.

That requires like I think that that's a really great thought but it does require like coaching in a way because you're not gonna come over you're not gonna come up with that on your own every day like it's got to be Again and he's he's reminding me. yeah. Okay. I remember that I have to do this. It's got to be like Coached into you what?

think it's a, it's like the, I want to say this, it's a wild at heart thing. If anybody's read John Elger's book, that it's like a permissional thing. I think it's a permissional that we need from other men. Is that permissional of saying, you're good. You're exactly what we need. You know, like if we try to do that within ourselves, it's just going to be a rat race. It's going to be.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're 100%. You're OK. I know exactly.

Bo Morgan (39:33.23)
or even with your wife like your like you know if you say you need to stop being hard on yourself I'm like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

know what's going on.

I think yes, somebody a couple steps ahead of you or older than you.

Hey, you're good. It's huge, you're good.

And that may be a psychological thing that...

Bo Morgan (39:56.846)
Which for the record probably in my early 20s I thought that like a pitch like this and it's not a pitch. It's like a hey you need this. It was like kind of cheesy like I've heard this before. Need to join a small group. Need to do all these things. I've heard this in church my entire life. You'll do it once and you'll be like okay yeah I need this very consistently in my life. Because you'll see how much it helps. Yeah.

That's good. So I mean, yeah, I think that's where, it's, I mean, sometimes I meet with him like, I wonder if I did this to you, but it is like, are you showing up for your wife and kids every day? Are you coming to work on time? Are you at least making an attempt to read your Bible on a failure basis? Like, you know, it's like, what's the problem? You know, like what's the problem? It's not.

I think wrong with being ambitious and it but there's like, okay Yeah, you can't internalize that thought to the point where you you you are less than I may not think I'm not doing enough Which could be true. There could be some truth to it But the end of the day now you internalize it and it switches from you know guilt to shame where it didn't texture identity therefore I am a less than because I'm working 12 15 hour days and grind

like crazy

Another example of something that's probably could be good is working hard. Yeah. If you're not ever gonna be able to work hard enough then you turn it into I'm just not enough. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. hits me right between the eyes. Yeah good. Yeah. Yeah. Well I think

Cartwright Morris (41:29.3)
But

Cartwright Morris (41:37.848)
Which... Yeah, which I mean that's...

Cartwright Morris (41:48.206)
That's it. else? I think we can keep going on this, right? we'll get to it. Cool. Sweet,

We've got some meat in there for sure. 100 % Yeah. Alright.