How Bo Knows Coaching...and Cartwright | Episode 147

Bo and Cartwright delve into the dynamics of coaching and mentorship, exploring the impact of having a coach on personal and professional growth. They discuss the importance of humility, self-reflection, and the value of being in a supportive community. The conversation touches on the challenges faced by men in their 20s and 30s, including career struggles, addiction, and the quest for identity and purpose. Through personal anecdotes and insights, the hosts emphasize the transformative power of coaching and the significance of seeking guidance and support.

Keywords

coaching, mentorship, personal growth, professional development, humility, self-reflection, community support, career struggles, addiction, identity, purpose

Takeaways

• Coaching provides a supportive environment for personal growth.
• Humility and self-reflection are key to personal development.
• Community support is crucial for overcoming challenges.
• Career struggles are common among men in their 20s and 30s.
• Addiction often stems from a lack of purpose and direction.
• Identity and purpose are central themes in personal development.
• Coaching helps in balancing personal and professional life.
• Seeking guidance is a sign of strength, not weakness.
• Transformative change requires openness to feedback.
• Building a supportive network is essential for success.

Sound bites

Coaching provides a supportive environment. Humility is key to personal growth. Community support is crucial. Career struggles are common. Addiction stems from lack of purpose. Identity is central to development. Coaching balances personal and professional life. Guidance is a sign of strength. Transformative change needs feedback. Supportive networks are essential.

Chapters

• 00:00:03 Introduction to Coaching
• 00:01:55 The Role of Humility and Self-Reflection
• 00:03:15 Career Struggles and Identity
• 00:05:57 Addiction and Purpose
• 00:10:45 Building a Supportive Community
• 00:16:48 Transformative Power of Coaching

Transcript

Cartwright (00:03.118)
All right. Testing one, two, three.

Cartwright (00:08.526)
Testing one, two, Hello. All right, well, let me, a little special episode. I want to give a little behind the scenes, maybe the background on me and Bo's relationship. What are you talking about? This is my superhero outfit.

this every day.

Bo (00:35.854)
The Sweet Henley.

deck bro.

Cartwright (00:42.786)
They me bro man. See this is the problem.

this stylish hoodie this is the thing now right? uh-huh I got this for Christmas Peter Miller

What's the brand? Dude, they're our next sponsor. so Peter Millar, they used to be like the high end, you know, poshie to use a English term, golf attire. But now it seems like they're trying to get into a little like Gen Z hoodie stuff.

And my father-in-law worked there, he worked there like doing retail because he's retired and just wanted to, he's really good about like, you go to his closet, he's got great.

I got a of Peter Malour Christmas golf shirts.

Bo (01:27.647)
yeah, they're the best and anyway, he gives a big discount. So this year at Christmas I got it was nice

ad read maybe send us some merch yeah

I need a hoodie. Anyway, yeah, yeah, so the setup's really getting a little background. No, I think this is fun.

Cartwright (01:55.818)
Setup of part of I mean Bo you came around when I was starting men are forged and kind of this brand or this idea that I had of like Really the forging of men at this age at the end their 20s and 30s is really it's the very formative if we allow it and I think that's what I Was kind of as I was growing trying to understand this podcast and build this brand you came along But found me doing some

kind of mentoring, one-on-one coaching, but never, I guess, to the intensity that you were looking for. And it was really good. And anyway, so let me kind of just kick us off with, we're going kind go back and forth with this. was, was it early 21 or the end of 20, 2020?

I think it's the end of 2020.

Yeah, it was down the hall in the other office I had and you've kind of followed me in all the different organizations. But yeah, when we first started working together, going through my coaching program, where were you in your life and when we first started?

what was happening. Well, and also to kind of set the stage a little bit, will, Carl Wright asked me to host this podcast with him and really kind of to my surprise, I was like, really? After all this stuff we've talked about? But no, it's really cool. And I will shamelessly plug your, do we call it, it's coaching, right? Coaching. And coaching's really, really kind of abroad and probably kind of has a backstab to it.

Cartwright (03:45.358)
I didn't love it at first, especially life coaching, because a life coach is a very stingy look. mean, they it mentoring, life consulting.

Not there.

Bo (03:53.998)
These guys want to be like, well, what am I getting? What am I getting? Right. This, right? And so this is the purpose of this is kind of explain that. And then also, we're going to do a lot of podcast episodes together and you're probably wondering, how'd these guys know each other? What's their story? you know, why, one guy seems to really know a lot. The other guy doesn't really know. no, no, no, but it is true. And that's good. That's the way we want it. what was your question?

Well, do we want to actually do we want to start what we found out very quickly our similarities, which was kind of the I thought was really which is I think if anybody's trying to build a counseling coaching rapport, like it's nice to have kind of these little bit of commonalities. Well, we found out in that first meeting we were both in the same fraternity at Auburn. Different times.

Had no idea before we met.

car it's a lot older

We both had some brief career in football coaching. which is wild. That's right. What was another one that we had? Probably the poor taste and sense of humor. I'm not aware of it. But anyway, that was an interesting commonality that we both thought was like, wow, that's kind of, that's kind of wild. It felt like very God.

Bo (05:04.12)
DIGBLY FLAWD

Cartwright (05:17.386)
orchestrated for sure. But my question was, where were you specifically that led you to me and wanting somebody to basically...

So one thing I don't like to talk about strengths very often, but somebody has told me that I'm good at asking for help. Right? mean, cause that's kind of a hard thing for men to do. think I tried it like early in my mid to early twenties once, saw how much it helped me and I was like, I gotta keep doing this. And so

To answer your question, I was working for a company, a really small company, where it was in software. I mean, we work for a really small company. it's just, especially where the communication is not great. It's like, it can kind of drive you a little crazy because man, we need the structure. We need the clear expectations. We need all these things, especially in your mid twenties when you don't know what you're doing anyways. And what makes it even worse? Like

you kind of think you do know what you're doing, which was certainly me. and so, man, just to struggle with that. So yeah, I remember where I was, I was in my, office at my house working and finally was like, man, I've got to have somebody that will just listen to me talk about what I'm dealing with. Not my wife, because that's just, you know, you, it's good to do that with your wife, but it's not like constantly.

It's not your wife, which is a key point.

Bo (06:55.415)
it'll wear her out.

And I would say a commonality, we figured out I wasn't married the time we met, which is another crazy thing, but we both found out both our wives are like fiercely loyal. If we've come to them with a problem, especially if somebody calls the problem on, they're going to want to bust some heads. Yes. They're not going to want to talk it out and actually help you with your perspective and mindset and focus and how to help you solve the problem. They're going to go.

Immediately taking your side even if you have some death.

Bo (07:27.51)
You're right. Let's work on this to make it better for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and let's talk crap about the person because they're not getting it. They're not seeing how great you are because I think you're know fierce which is wonderful to have in your corner for a spouse Ladies my our wives like yeah, we are so thankful. Yeah, So this it's that I just want to give that caveat for any guys out there that are like, I got my wife

Absolutely.

Bo (07:51.086)
Yeah, but you gotta have people that'll tell you when you're wrong. Yes. And you gotta have people to tell, know, slap you around a little bit and, know, get the truth out of the situation and call you out where you're maybe feeling you're prideful. You got a big ego here and Hey, let's work on this. Hey, what can you control here? Instead of trying to control these other people. um, so yeah, I was working for this small company and, um, I literally, I don't remember what I Googled.

but it was from Google and you popped up and I went to your LinkedIn page. I didn't know about the center for executive leadership or anything. My dad had been here before, but it was never really a thing. And then, I always thought that was like for older guys, you know what I mean? Like I didn't think like younger guys could come here. And, anyway, found your LinkedIn page. You had a Calendly link on there. And, and I got a meeting with you.

And yeah, I remember just showing up and walking into your office and meeting you for the first time five, six years ago.

Yeah, that was wild and I don't did I can't remember if I probably saw your linkedin and had a picture of you But probably it was like yeah, this guy just came around the corner. Okay, man. Come on in. Yeah. Yeah

Yeah. And then I just started, blah, blah, blah, blah, know, just getting it all out. yeah, so that was huge for me. Huge connection. Where I'd be without it today.

Cartwright (09:18.925)
Yeah.

Cartwright (09:23.086)
Do we want to go one for one or you can just go down mine and then we switch?

I said we go down each and then switch. Okay.

Perfect, yeah, like that. Okay, so yeah, to kind of dig deeper into that bow, maybe, yeah, what was kind of the biggest problem you didn't realize back then that kind of through the coaching kind of came to life?

The biggest thing you've taught me, and we talk about it and we haven't done many episodes, we've done what? Five? Four. We've done four episodes of this podcast so far. And the common thing every single time is the tension that you experience as young Christian men trying to do the right thing, learning how to

learning how to balance and live in a place between two different things that are true. So like for me, it's like, Hey, bro, you're doing the right thing at this job you were at. You're working extremely hard, you know, all that's good. But because of that, you're driving yourself a little bit crazy, right? So that can be good, but the fruit from it sometimes can be bad. That's the biggest thing you've taught me. And, also, and a little bit related.

Bo (10:45.602)
So a lot of the stuff that we've talked about that you've been able to help me with is like career stuff, like real practical stuff, but then spiritual stuff too. with, you know, my favorite verses of Ephesians 2, 8, it's not by works, it's by grace, you know? And you would always be like, Beau, you're working really, really hard to be accepted by God. And then you would ask questions. Like I remember you would ask me,

Like you would never say, Hey, let me lecture you for a second about why you're wrong. You would, well, but you would ask me questions like, okay, so this is what I just heard you say. Is that true? And then I'd sit there and be like, well, no, that's not true. And then you wouldn't say anything again. And you'd just be like,

We got enough in our life.

Cartwright (11:39.582)
Hahaha

And then I'd be like, just sitting there marinating on stuff like that.

If that is not true, then what are the implications? What is true? And I could sit there and tell you what is true, but you had to come.

Exactly. Yeah. You would, you would always lead me to, I don't know where I needed to be. I don't know if that's the right phrase, but like, you would always lead me to clarity. And so you would always kind of massage it like, in my brain to where I came up with the right answer, not the right answer. You don't know what I'm trying to say. It's never that concrete, but it's always

Yeah, I would say that,

Bo (12:20.974)
Oh, I actually know that thing that's driving me a little bit crazy right now. That's not even true. You know, the fact that you're, like, I remember one thing that I used to struggle with and that you helped me a lot was, man, I went through a season in my life where like, man, I had deep, deep, the study time, the quiet time I had with God was always like, man, it was like profound. And like, I would always get these great thoughts and like had these great worship experiences and things like that. And then a week later,

Yeah.

Bo (12:50.742)
I wouldn't have that same experience. And I'd be like, what am I screwing up? You know what mean? What am I doing wrong here? You always led me away from, dude, you're putting too much on you. You know what mean? And gosh, like how helpful that just that one thing is. Like, hey, you're putting too much pressure on yourself to perform here. And it's not by works, it's by grace.

So yeah, with that, I'll even do a Q &A question. So are you saying your actions are bigger or more important than the cross? Yeah. I mean, right there. That's a great. I mean, when you say that, I want to say I even add that. It's like,

perfect is it like what you just did is exactly what you did.

Yeah. Cause yeah, I mean, going back to what you said about the lecturing versus the question act, self-discovery is such a powerful tool. diving into this profession and doing this, I love the curiosity that can come from a conversation like that. That's fun. It was hard also, I would say for any coach out there who does have a good relationship with a client and is

built a rapport and you enjoy coaching and working with them. I would say a struggle that I had, if I could add a little commentary was you would vent to me about a struggle, especially with a boss or something like that. And I immediately, I could feel my insides. I gotta go back from Bo like, dude, that sucks. That is stupid. This is what I went through, right? But it's like, okay, going back to what you said earlier, I think was as a coach, I was like, all right, how do I activate Bo?

Cartwright (14:36.462)
What can Bo control? And I'll say a little bit what I felt like I brought up because it really spoke to me as someone who really would try to work on that is like, all right, how do I have a healthy confrontation? How do I bring still value the relationship, honor the relationship that I have this boss, leader in my life or person, but yet confront them on their behavior that is affecting me?

and not from a place of judgment, of like, I'm trying to improve how I work and are working with this ship. So anyway, just remember, I remember so a lot of those conversations.

Yeah, yeah stuff. still think about stuff you still deal with that. Thankfully have an amazing boss now Yeah, and so that's that's really good and you can kind of see the value and you know kind of being led to and another thing I learned too is like You know being led more to the people that you want to be with rather than just like chasing a career You know, like hey, you know anyway, we've we've talked

Yeah, and we've talked about a lot and I'll just add to that. I feel like for guys in their 20s and early 30s, especially like being in a great culture is probably more valuable to them in the long run, even though it's hard at first, especially if you want to grow from a wealth and financial stability.

yourself with people that you would like to be like, you know, like you could see yourself, you know, being like one reason I got out of coaching is because, you know, lot of the guys that, that were five years ahead of me in coaching were, you know, completely, you know, not president at home and valued career over everything else. anyway, so yeah, that's another thing you've helped me learn is the value of that as well.

Cartwright (16:00.269)
Yeah.

Bo (16:25.6)
Anyway, rabbit hole, I'll us down there.

All right, so next one.

What changed, did we hit on that? Anyway, yeah, what changed first? Your thinking, your habits or your direction? Kind of what was the process that really, it's a little bit connected to the one before, but what was the really that started really developing from our sessions?

change you helped me you helped me change the way I saw certain things so I would say thinking yeah you helped me and still do process things in my own head right like you don't come here to say hey help me get out of this situation or help me help me deal with this person car rights approach is always at least from my experience it's always been

that person's not here. Let's work on you. And let's work on the way that you process it. And let's also think so much about how to get out of this situation or how to get a certain outcome that you want. You would ask me, what do think God's teaching you? Is he more interested in this certain outcome? Is he more interested that you get a raise?

Bo (17:45.358)
Races are fine. Michael's my boss. I'm just kidding. But what instead, let's talk about and let's focus on what God could be teaching you, what you think he may be teaching you right now. And when you do that and you go, oh, he's teaching me patience. Then you kind of view things as like, okay, well let's work on me. How can you be more patient? are some things you can do?

bit less frustration when you have that mindset going in. And just off of that, I will say a lot of my clients that haven't worked out as well as you, I'm not saying from a result standpoint, but just longevity of client, they've come in just to vent. They don't want the challenging thought. They don't want the deep dive and self-reflection. They don't want to evaluate, all right, how am I approaching this?

Maybe I need to approach this differently. They're not thinking that way. They're just like, I need some place to get this out and tell me I'm great and everything's fine. You know, I wouldn't say that's all, but I would say a lot of that you realize is like, yeah. And some people, that's not a bad, like you can go find that. That's really just need a place to dump outside of your wife or your family, your friends, and you just need that safe place. get that. But what's been great, and I would say a testament to you and your character is like, hey,

Yeah, I need a place to just let loose and kind of let my hair down a little bit and just kind of let it out. But also like, okay, now help me kind of decipher and challenge my thinking on it. Yeah. Going back to the question.

Yeah, you got to be open to the challenge that you'll receive from Cartwright because that's really the meat and the takeaway that you get from it. You know what mean? Right. If you don't, yeah, I mean.

Cartwright (19:35.203)
Yeah.

Cartwright (19:38.638)
It is weird, Bo, like how many people really are out there and it's like, I'll start doing what I do with you. they're like, hold on, let me finish my Not stopping me, like, that's not what I'm here for, but they'll even in their behavior kind of be like, let me finish this thought. Yeah. It's like, okay. Yeah. Or they'll look at me a weird face, like, I don't Like, okay. Yeah. This is not what you came for. Got it. Yeah. Which is fine. But yeah, that's not what I do.

know, because I think it's a testament that you wanted more than that. You wanted more than that. So.

Yeah, you gotta want it for sure. Yeah, you gotta want the truth. Yeah, you gotta want the truth.

Which I think going back to what you said, like you found some result in being humble, which is that's a strong character trait we've talked about many times of like the humility to, all right, let me hear some feedback and I may not like it. Yeah. I would say humility though in the loan, feels great. It really, may feel bad at first.

there's just peace with it. You won't have to, like, I'm here to, for you to help me out. Not give me the answers, but lead me down the right path. know? And, yeah, I mean, if you, I just, I would imagine like how, how tiring that is to like, have to pretend like, know, the answer all the time, especially with, if you're a Christian, like with knowing

Cartwright (20:45.976)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bo (21:06.636)
What's going on in the Bible and like how that works here and all the stuff that's going on in the world, then you'll go nuts. You know what mean? You'll go nuts. You don't know the answers. Nobody does.

man.

Cartwright (21:16.782)
Exactly. You know, he wins in the end, but not me. Well, I mean, I'll be part of that. like the whole idea that I can't, yeah, I'm with you. It can be exhausting to think that at the end of the day that I'm the one that has to have it all figured out. Oh, yeah. Bam.

there.

Cartwright (21:37.454)
Yeah, that's interesting. Can you think of an example of a moment when coaching directly changed the decision you made? Ooh, this is specific. It's been, you know, been in the last five years.

On average how many times we met? 30? 50? 50 times? Total. More than that, right? We met for once a month for...

total?

Bo (22:02.734)
Dude, we were once a week for a while. We were, that's right. I was struggling.

And then we probably had some follow up lunches and sh-

Oh yeah. No, I think it was more than 50. Yeah. Um, I don't think that, yeah, it had to be more than 50. Maybe not. I don't know. And the podcast we just did, I said we were been together for 10 years. It's only been six. anyway, um, yeah. So an example of moment when it actually changed a decision I made, I can't, mean, there's probably a ton of examples of that. Um, man, honestly,

Yeah.

Bo (22:42.156)
Honestly, I go back to this. It's the muscle that you exercise daily to almost say, I don't have to perform for this. I really don't have to perform for this. I don't have to know the answer every time. If I'm in the middle of that tension of trying to do the right thing and be, I don't know, a good Christian.

That's a terrible thing to say probably, but try to be a disciple, I guess, and still have all these temptations and things that you want to accomplish outside of just that on this earth. I know that's super deep and that wasn't the point of the question, but it's not a specific time that you coach me out of or into. It's the every morning waking up with that perspective of it does.

Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, I was actually, I think I was talking to my wife a little bit about this the other day and just, hey, men are forwards. Let me bring some women into this. was just, yeah, I mean, you think most women that are probably at their most attractive when they feel a level of, yeah, comfort.

frees you up a lot.

Cartwright (24:07.502)
I think as guys, or I just know some examples of women that when it's all about the dolled up moment, the men think it's this perfect image. I think the most attractive women generally are when they feel the most comfort. There's a lot of freedom in that. And I think the same way for us as Christians is like, man, when I feel at rest, at peace about who I am and who God's calling me to, yeah.

That's that humble confidence.

I don't know if that was the best example to use with women, but maybe I might edit it out. yes. Anyway, how has having a coach, let me get the microphone here. How is having a coach affected how you show up as a man in work, faith in relationships?

You. I could just repeat everything I've said.

Yeah, that was good.

Bo (25:10.058)
Another, this is a good little nugget probably that has a lot to do with this is, is also learning through your guidance. maybe just to not think about myself so much. it's to see certain situations at work. We'll use work as an example, like, Hey, you want to

you're super ambitious and that's good. You're super hard working and stuff like that. how can you, don't focus on that too much. You'll go nuts. Focus on how can I add value to this person at work today? And if you do that enough times, you'll look up and you'll be well beyond whatever your ambitious thought was when you started that exercise, right? That's really hard to do on a daily basis. you've coached me in that and a lot of different situations.

Hey, instead of being so frustrated with this person, how can you serve that person today and then see how it works out? you always know the end of the story. It's going to work out really well. know what mean? so that's kind of, that's no heck no. Definitely not. It's not our first.

Good luck.

Cartwright (26:27.598)
You know, if anybody's read the book by Simon Sinek, Infinite Game, it is that thought process though of like, I'm thinking big picture, long-term, you know, what type of man I am and want to be. It's an inward, it's the inward expressing outward versus vice versa. Most people want the external to define me on the inward. Yeah. You know? And so I think like, how do I change that mindset of like, no, this is what I'm about. So I'm going to serve this person whether they're, I don't like them.

or they're ticking me off or whatever. I am this person. It doesn't matter what their actions don't dictate me. I dictate my actions.

And if you're a man in your twenties and thirties and you're trying to find things that you can control and that you can do, well, that's definitely one, right? It's serving the person that you're with, where your feet are in that moment. You can control that. So enjoy controlling that, you know, do that if you got to control something. That's been a big thing you've taught me. all right. Now the question is for you. well, first talk more. So you hear.

Hit me.

Bo (27:34.934)
I know it bugs you. It bugs me. The term coaching. What is it really? mean, coaching is just kind of a catch all. You're not a licensed counselor, which is a good thing. I don't think you're, I mean, you see the guys that like market themselves as life coaches. That's not you. Yeah. So if you see the guys on LinkedIn and stuff that are going to be your life coach.

Yeah.

Cartwright (27:47.726)
which is a thing.

Bo (28:04.354)
This is now what Cartwright is. Talk about that.

Yeah, and just let me not bash counselors. I meant it was a good thing in that licensed counselors are limited from state to state. You can't cross state lines. Where's a coach I can. But that's what I meant by that. But also, there's just a lot that comes with being a licensed counselor. a coach, have more. It's harder to get clients, but I always say my coaching style, and sometimes that's why I use mentoring, is I like the shoulder to shoulder.

Men are better at counsel or advice or mentorship when it's shoulder to shoulder versus face to face. Or women are better at showing up to face to face, diving deep, reflecting deep on things and asking hard questions and they receive it better. Where men, it's like, I've seen it. This was like a little bit of squirming. like, so sometimes it is like, hey, how do I?

That's why I say always like working with business guys, guys who are professionally driven because there is a level I can come alongside them and help them understand what's going on in their work, in their career, and that will lead to more deeper discussions. So that's why I always say there's a shoulder to shoulder type coaching. And also I would say a coach is what I'd like about a real purist in the coaching profession.

there's some coaches that are probably more consultants. Like, hey, you have a problem, let me tell you what your solution is. That's a consultant in my mind. A counselor is more diving deep into the kind of getting dirty with you and your real struggles. Where I would say the coach is like, hi, how do I help you move forward? Which I get more excitement from that. actually had a conversation with another coach here at the center about this, but he, you know, it's like,

Cartwright (30:01.55)
How do I like, get energy and excitement from helping guys move forward in life. Like, Hey, there's a barrier and I can't figure out how to go over it or go through it. And I would say that's a lot with, you know, what made us work though. um, with, but within that there's always the, this, you know, uh, a pure way to think about it is also like somebody, a third party that's you come with no agenda. I'm just here to listen and ask you.

questions that you haven't heard before. But within that, there's always like a way to do that. Because I would say, you know, I do at some point, maybe add some input or vice, where I would say purists in the coaching profession, sometimes it's only questions. I don't add any of my agenda or any, but it always starts from that. I would say my coaching, that's why, you know, there's a little bit of consulting and mentorship in the coaching, but a purist would say there's, you're just having no agenda. And I'm just purely there.

for to help you process this out. So yeah.

That's good. Yeah. Cause I think that probably is a thing for guys in their twenties and thirties. It's like, another coach. What does that mean? and I've been to both. I've been to therapists have been to counselors and, you're the only coach I've been to, but I get, I get more out of this than I do at the more clinical settings. Not that those places aren't great. They're great.

I mean, but like even, you know, as we know people, have like a coaching program and they're going to guide you through a certain thing. Like, you know, Todd, you know, that's a great example. He's, you know, there's a certain, we know he's, he would say he's a coach, but there's a level, there's a certain like five sessions of this. And they say the best way to really make money off of it is to do that. But I would say there's almost like three types of coaches. There's like the

Cartwright (31:57.55)
rigid program. Like this is what you're going to get in five, 10, eight sessions, whatever. And then there's like a, um, Hey, open agenda. You know, what can, how can I help you today? Kind of like, let's, let me just ask questions around what you're dealing with. And then there's a little mix of both, which I would say a little bit of mix. Cause there is a, there is stuff that obviously through what we're talking about the podcast that I've kind of, I know my back of mind, a guy like wherever you were at needs.

same time, want to help you get there, not tell you what I think first. That's not going to work out well. You're at that place, that's you've been doing your whole life. Just doing what someone else has told you versus I want to bow to be a free thinker. In my coaching, a foundational versus for freedom, we have been set free. Like Glacians 1, that in itself, I'm like, there's something

Yeah.

Cartwright (32:57.59)
Jesus that we are this life is freedom practice. Yeah to quote a pastor that I'm a big fan of but anyway

Yeah, I love that. that's definitely, you can feel that in talking to you too. There's freedom in the conversation. It can go anywhere you want it to go. And there's nothing that you haven't probably heard before. So if you're some guy out there that thinks you're super unique and that you struggle with this, there's been a lot of guys struggle with that, that you've helped with that. So it's not anything that you're going to come in and Cartwright's going to say,

No, I don't deal with stuff like that. That's not gonna happen. Why do you think guys get resist resist getting coaching?

What do you think of some of the barriers that actually have?

I could probably

Cartwright (33:49.55)
Have them that don't do it that keep them from doing it

They're thinking about doing it, but they just have like, I end up doing it like they see the value in it But then they're just like man, they don't

One, going what you just said earlier, that what I'm dealing with is I'm unique. You're weird. I'm like, let me just say this out loud. You're not. You're not special. Let me just say that. You're not special. God made you unique, but you ain't special. Your problems are not... Somebody has to... I've heard it or somebody I know has heard it. that's the... I would say if you could... It was something I wish I learned early in my 20s.

you ain't special. I would say us millennials, we got that message. It's like, no, no, you're not special. That's right. You know, and I would, you know, so getting over that barrier is going, okay, yeah. One is, you know, I would say I, God has gifted me and I pray into and take a lot of pride in as creating a safe place where people feel welcome, seen, known.

And I would say a lot of guys, it's like, I'm just going to another place for somebody to go back to lecture me, preach at me, to tell me everything I'm doing wrong, tell me how terrible guy I am, or he's gonna make me do something I don't really wanna do. could, yeah, I mean, that could be possible, the last one, but it's like, it, it, it,

Cartwright (35:23.566)
I feel like it's going to come in the spirit of like it's going to challenge you in a way that you really deeply want to be challenged in. If you're being open and honest and authentic with me, we'll get to that place where it's like, yeah, you'll be like, yeah, that's what I need to do. I don't know if you felt that way.

Yeah, you don't have to like you don't have car. It's not gonna be like hey you need to email everyone You know it confess whatever you told me really I mean cuz I think that's probably another reason why it's like well if I go to him he's gonna tell me I gotta tell everybody about this issue that I'm dealing with and There's probably freedom in that telling you know or confessing But Cartwright's not gonna tell you to do that Right off the bat. Maybe in session 10

Yeah.

Cartwright (36:07.98)
Yeah.

But you usually come up with it on your own. Yeah, by the way, I agree with that. think that, and I think a lot of times men in their twenties and thirties, they really want to understand and know what they're getting into. And I think sometimes it can be kind of vague, like, okay, I'm going to him because I have this specific issue or I'm just confused about something and I don't know what I'm getting on the other end. What I can say is,

There's really probably no cookie cutter answer you'll get from Cartwright. But just saying it out loud and having him dialogue with you through it, you'll leave feeling better because one, you're not the only one that's dealing with this, whatever that thing is. And then two, okay, now I kind of can, now I know how to at least work on it. And now there's a light on it. You know, I've at least identified what we think the issue, the core issue may be.

whether it's my anger, ego, my whatever. Anyway, does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. And I'll say this with... That's why I like pairing a lot of my coaching with my studies or peer groups where you do get some more... In the groups, you get more foundational kind of teaching that leads to more deeper discussions where we're not in this group where I'm teaching you, like, you need to believe this, this, and that, right? That's just... Yeah. I think they complement what you're on. Yeah.

Bo (37:35.598)
Come as you are. This is a good one. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about this. What do you see? What are some of the things you see in men that come to you that are in their twenties and thirties? Kind of this same kind of issues. Like what are some of the patterns you see in guys that come to you? Is it like a lot of, I mean, it's probably a lot of career stuff, right? Is it a lot of...

temptation, like lust, pornography, addiction. What's some of the stuff you see?

yeah, I've gotten some addiction stuff, which it hasn't always been pornography. There's been some of that for sure. There's been, yeah.

Cartwright (38:31.406)
It has been a lot. A lot of what I talk about is really a general thing that ends up happening is what we're trying to hit on in this podcast. It's the tension of, man, how do I profess these things to believe? How does this actually affect my life? And when I say that, there's been topics where...

me and my wife. There's marriage. There's been distance there. Addiction, like, hey, man, I keep struggling with this thing and but yet I know I profess to believe this. It's been alcohol. There's been gambling, porn, even, you know, tobacco has been one.

There.

Bo (39:11.182)
to be alcohol.

Cartwright (39:22.316)
You know, I wouldn't say talking through addiction isn't necessarily my strong suit. And I say, that's why I try to get guys in their twenties. Cause I, I would say those, those addictions are symptoms of something much deeper that you're lacking purpose. You're lacking direction. You're lacking meaning. mean, all the, mean, whatever you, how are you like line it up there or, there's just a lack of identity and who you are and who you really want to be and how to pursue that. And that's been the outlet to escape.

thought process. Most of us are, that's where that comes from. I'm trying to escape to that. Away because I'm tired of thinking about this stupid thing because I'm like I need more meaning in my life. I need more direction. I need more clarity and no one's helping me and no one and I just I keep going back to this thing to kind of escape that thought process. So it is yeah, so I mean in that vein there is a lot of like

I feel something.

Cartwright (40:22.04)
You know, there's how to get that alignment between my purpose and what I claim I am. Yeah. And my identity. So. It really does. It really does.

comes back to that really. Thinking about like I've done that with my career. Yeah. You try to get fulfillment, you're trying to fill a void with your career. Yeah. If I can get this position or I can start this business or I can do. Yeah. You know.

And I still do it within my, you know, even within ministry and they got context, right? It's because it's like, man, you know, there's the pure thought of what we, you know, I want to provide for my family beyond their needs, right? I want to actually provide a place that they can live and thrive in. But then there's like, man, I want to be successful. I want to feel successful. More than anything. But yeah, I think a lot of it is

You know, it's like, mean, now, Bo, I'm sitting there going through the Rolodex of guys I've met with and talked through and, yeah, career struggles, addiction struggles. I mean, you know, lot of what I do sometimes is just leadership development, how to eat others, my, you know, but it all comes down to, you know, developing mindsets, your mindset and how does that align with

what I feel like I'm called to and who I am, you know.

Cartwright (41:53.976)
think that's what it always comes down to when we ended up having this.

Cause you, can take a specific situation somebody's dealing with and then, get to that path, however unique way you need to get there. So I think when we say, like your, your issues that you're facing are not unique to you, right? but how you can call rights, get it. but the pathway he gets you kind of to that truth of shining a light on it could is unique probably every time, depending on who you're.

talking to or dealing with. That was a lot deeper than I wanted to get. Also, you still keep a Rolodex?

mentally.

Yeah, I'm like.

Bo (42:40.174)
You can

Bo (42:45.694)
No, you know you can just do it on your phone We're working on car right man, we're Cool that's the last one really yeah, can I can can I do a well we hit that we hit that one too really

heart.

Cartwright (42:59.692)
Was that last one?

Cartwright (43:04.846)
stuck he doesn't know where to start.

Yeah. So, well, let me ask you that last one and then that can be the call to action. So if somebody's feeling stuck, they're in their twenties and thirties, maybe they've heard their dad go into the center of executive leadership or they've been to a Bible study here and they love it, but they would love to, they're dealing with the same issues that we all deal with and that they, they want to talk one-on-one with you. Where do they go? How do they get there? How do they get in your office talking to you?

Well, you know, we'll have there's a there's a link in the bio of the podcast or even in this episode that you know, counterlink where you can literally do a 15 minute phone call or zoom call if you want and just kind of or you could, you know, we could set up an actual like coffee or whatever. To me, there's there's always that.

Cartwright (44:06.35)
But I think I want to I mean I want to sit here and self-promote because I appreciate you both doing that but there's also like man likes the obvious thing is like man just just do something You've you know never done before step across some do some level of reflection and boldness like I Have to do something different if I want to be different, you know, is that voicing it to a trusted friend is that

You know, uh, just, just stepping out and doing something beyond what you've already done. You know, I think we live in a very high information age and you could probably get the answers that you think you want some level of knowledge from something podcast book, uh, you know, whatever chat, GBT, you know, but at the same time, like you need to be in relationships with humans to help you actually apply that stuff directly.

Like, and it could be me. Could be me. You could try that out. Take that test. But somebody, you have to find somebody who's been a couple steps for or way down the road. Could be your, you know, your dad. I don't know if you have that type of relationship, but some older man, because I think we've talked about this that I think is, I'm hit or miss. I'm hot and cold sometimes on John Eldridge and his books. He's great. But, but I do love this, what he talks about early in his Wild at Heart book, which is a great millennial.

Book that came out but many permission from other men but the permission to like hey, yeah Stop thinking this way do this. Yeah start living, you know, no that's you in your mind. is a big deal It's not that big. Yeah, I promise you you're right you're doing great You know that permission is huge. I think in a man's life and I you know, that was what I would encourage that initial step. Yeah

I love that. And I've certainly done that with you, where it's, hey, it's okay to think that way. And just the piece that you feel from somebody saying that to you out loud, I think you should come in person. Because I think you just get so much more out of it in person. Again, we'll kind of reiterate this too. mean, really and truly, the purpose of this podcast is not to

Bo (46:30.646)
try to grow or directly grow Cartwright's ministry because that's not Cartwright's heart. Cartwright's heart is to help guide men in their 20s and 30s to, not necessarily to a specific outcome, but just like in that walk that we're required, run the race that's required of us and struggle through it.

to the right or to the left to use that verse Hebrews. So I'm looking at the guy next to you and wishing you were him.

Exactly.

Bo (47:01.398)
Right. And so I think again, I'll probably end up doing this a lot on the podcast. I'll try not to, but, and a lot of the topics we talk about, it's like, man, I just don't know how, you know, listening to a podcast, hopefully we'll help. Hopefully some guys will get a lot out of it. but it's meant to, yeah, exactly. It's meant to stimulate you to do something about your situation, try something different. And I think at least in my experience, man, it was

to stimulate something.

Bo (47:31.032)
hard at first to reach out to somebody you don't know like Cartwright and come in and say, hey, here's the things I'm struggling with. But I can just tell you it's so worth it leaving after a one hour session with, I'll just say Cartwright because you've always done it for me, leaving a one hour session with Cartwright and having just kind of that peace and then your mind just a little bit more organized towards.

what you're struggling with and not necessarily always finding the exact solution in that one session to a struggle you're having, but it's like shining a spotlight on it. So it's not hidden anymore. And there's so much peace with that. You know what I mean? It's so much peace with that. So anyway, guys, please, please just try it. Try something different. I know it might not always be the cool thing to do to ask for help or to feel

Yeah.

Bo (48:28.588)
be vulnerable in front of somebody else or something like that. But I promise you the value you'll get out of it. You'll look back after six years like I do and really kind of wonder where you would be today if you didn't do it. That sounds like a threat. It's not a threat. it's a... Yeah, well, that's true.

Someway, man. We're built, we're relational beings. We were built this way. Yeah. And we have to, like, I mean, it is like you're going to get to the end of your life and we've seen these, I mean, tail is the whole time, right? That kind of that if without, without other men and being in relationship with other men, the cost is pretty great. Yeah. I've been alone, I've done things alone and it's just, it's not as good and the fruit of it is not as great. Yeah, it's not good at all.

Yeah.

Alright cool, this was great man. Try it out guys.

You're a dummy. Saw that.