Identity Forged in Adversity: Lessons from the Movie, Gladiator | Episode 151

In this episode, we explore the profound questions of identity, especially when stripped away of external accomplishments or roles. Using cinematic examples like Gladiator and real-life leadership stories, we examine how adversity reveals who we truly are and how our faith anchors our sense of self.

Key topics:

• How adversity impacts a man's sense of identity, using Gladiator as a metaphor for when all external roles are taken away.
• The peril of attaching self-worth to success, failure, or external validation.
• The example of reluctant leaders, like George Washington, illustrating humility as a mark of true strength.
• The significance of community, failure, and humility in shaping authentic masculinity.
• Practical ways men in their 20s and 30s can prepare for authority by cultivating humility and self-awareness.
• The dangers of false humility versus genuine confidence rooted in identity in Christ.
• How life's hard moments—parenting, career setbacks, or failure—are the tools that shape resilient, grounded men.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Building identity through adversity with Gladiator
02:00 - The role of men’s desire for a battlefield and sanctuary
03:15 - Contrast between Maximus and Commodus—power and manipulation
04:41 - The significance of loss and the Problem of identity in its absence
05:39 - Resurrection and identity: becoming who we are when stripped of everything
06:39 - Biblical perspective: Matthew 3:17 - our worth as sons of God
07:47 - The moment of standing with nothing to prove—what it reveals about integrity
08:28 - Living from acceptance, not for validation in faith and life
09:09 - The temptation of the hero’s journey and mastering humility
10:24 - Reluctant leaders—George Washington and others’ humility
12:20 - Power’s corrupting influence and the importance of rooted virtue
13:58 - The danger of authority abuse and the importance of knowing oneself
16:23 - Preparing young men for leadership: humility, failure, and self-awareness
19:11 - Balancing ambition and humility—living in tension
20:38 - The ongoing process of self-awareness in decision making
22:28 - Responding to social pressure and authenticity under scrutiny
27:44 - The importance of humility in team and success recognition
28:44 - True affirmation from identity in Christ vs. false humility
32:23 - Living from acceptance daily, not for approval
35:55 - Creating healthy cultures by embracing failure and transparency
37:54 - The role of family and career identity, especially in early fatherhood
40:15 - The impact of hard choices and parenthood on longevity and character
43:11 - When does identity start to be questioned? Early 20s, especially post-college
45:16 - The tension between success and relational health in coaching and sports
48:44 - How to distinguish a calling from identity in our work
50:14 - The significance of knowing we're more than our jobs
52:06 - The core of building character: the ongoing tension between purpose and humility

Transcript

Cartwright Morris (00:03.274)
Alright. Excited for another episode here. What is this? Eight or nine? Is that my time? Yeah, if you include our... Oh, all the extras. Yeah, yeah.

Cartwright Morris (00:16.994)
Yeah, today, I guess what keeps coming up in this conversation, I feel like we're building towards something or always just talking about what resonates, but like the keyword identity, we're hitting that I think in episode two a little bit, even the last one, when we talk about the forging of men, where we forged, and I thought a great example would be,

The movie Gladiator. You know, I don't know. Me and my wife, a big thing we love to do is watch movies. And probably the last four or five years since we've been together is like, how do we watch each other's stuff, right? And I feel like I've been watching a lot of her stuff, you know, but you know, more than my stuff, but whatever. an example of her stuff? You know, Gilmore Girls, you know, which is not a bad show. It's on Netflix. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

But mine was, it's gladiator, right? We gotta watch gladiator. So we end up watching on Saturday and my son's in the app. How'd you, is it on Amazon? What's it on? Paramount. Okay. So yeah, we got that inexpensive. Yeah, it's like 99 cents. For two months or something. I got that one. good. Watch some Landman, which is not a one. I watched Survivor on that. There you go.

Cartwright Morris (02:00.441)
I thought a great conversation for us as men in the context of our identity who we are.

I really love the first 40 minutes of the movie. I mean the movie, oh but there was something about the first one that really like stimulated this thought. And I think, me spoil alert to anybody out there, but the first 40 minutes really, it hammers in this thought as men that we really need a place.

a an ambition, a battlefield in a sense to go fight as well as a sanctuary, a place of rest, peace, know, comfort. And you really see that where he, you know, the movie obviously begins with him in a...

fight the ultimate like endorphins testosterone. Or he's like a general. He's a general right? Yeah. He's a high ranking like big title. Right? When wins the battle praise from by his men respect from his men and then also love and respect you see from a father figure a leader Marcus Rilius. It's like that that moment that culmination you experience that and then you see the contrast of the villain spoiler alert right in Commodus.

walking Phoenix character walks up and you're like he is the exact opposite of him like motivated by power

Cartwright Morris (03:25.006)
control, manipulation, you know, where you see Maximus, he is a guy one of respect and honor and know values driven. So you kind of have this interesting, you really see it, they do it very quickly where they show you kind of the difference and even some of Marcus really says words. But.

So he has that, he has that ultimate success, respect, love, as well as, and then it brings in, it's like, okay, now that he has an ultimate, where he's finally done, there's a completion, there's success, and he's going home. He's going to be with his wife and his son, and he's gonna get to actually be there and be where he's away from the battle, gets to rest. And you see in a very quick moment,

all of that is taken away. His title, his army, and not only that but he loses his wife and son are killed, executed, and now all of sudden like you're 30-40 minutes in and he is like has neither.

and he's a slave. And there's something too that I think as men these are those things are like extensions of him they are 100 % his identity is being expressed in being a general and as well as his occupation in a sense but as well as in being a father and a husband in a place uh and and like that sanction that like men need both in their life but all that's taken away and what's left

And what's great is the rest of the movie shows like there's a level of like, if what am I, if everything, all of this is taken away, who am I? You know, and like that, it's almost like there's a Christ-like figure to that. There's like a Christ-like moment of like, all right, now here's the resurrection in a sense of this is, all right, this is who I am. And what we see is him now all of sudden like.

Cartwright Morris (05:39.747)
defying an emperor and resetting an entire country. That's the guy, that's who he is, right? And so I think there is something too that discussion is men, like if I stripped all this away, who would I be? If no one knew who I was, I didn't have this job, I didn't have the joys, the comforts, or even the good things in life, like a family, and it's like who am I? And I think that thought process.

There's definitely been in my moments of low moments where you're just like this. That's the defining stuff of who am I going to be? Who am I if I'm, you know, not X? I had these ideas to be that and I'm not. OK, who am I then? That's the person that needs like the we talk about the inside out living versus outside in. Right. It's just fascinating like.

Yeah, I just think that process if we even want go back to Matthew 3 17 right and think of this is my son who I'm well pleased. Why is that significant? This is my son who I'm well pleased. He hasn't done anything. Jesus ministry is not started. He's his son. That's why he's well pleased. It's not anything action he's done. There's no and we see Jesus the ultimate, you know, he was successful in everything he did pretty much.

pretty much, yeah, I mean, obviously, right? There's people who rejected him, but I would think that's not a failure, right? But what I'm saying is there's a level of we as men, that question keeps, I was watching that movie and I'm like,

Who would I become if all of that stripped away and I wake up and I'm a slave? And you see that all culminating in the movie, which is really interesting because he stands before where they're like, okay, he's got this stock of slaves right there and they all gotta fight this main guy who's big and they're gonna brand you as good, average, bad or something and you get paired with in the...

Cartwright Morris (07:47.855)
and he steps up and you're supposed to prove your fighting skills and he just stands there. I got nothing to prove. Nothing to prove to you, you, you. You know, like in that wild, like I just thought that was interesting. It came to me, like, got, like, and I think as men, how do we get to that place where we have nothing to prove to our fellow men? We got nothing. It's like, this is who I am. This is who I'm about. This is who I follow.

Like I believe that Jesus is Lord, is who He says He is, and this is who He died to be, right? And this is who I, and because of that, this is who I am in life.

Okay, and that's all that matters. Failure, success, disappointment.

wins, losses, right? All those things like they don't necessarily they don't make us who we are.

I they their extension in many ways. But anyway, I don't know. That was just something I really was like, resonating with as I'm listening and watching this movie that I've seen probably hundreds of times, right? know? Seen bits, you know, probably in the last 10, 15 years, I have not watched it beginning to end. I've, you know, picked it up on public TVS or something like that. But this first time in a while, and you're like, oh.

Cartwright Morris (09:09.432)
There was like something really good about that character that he was the resolute, he was the rock everybody hit on. And they were the ones they wanted to come in line with.

And you even see comedists try to use him. I see something in Is that the Emperor? Yeah, the villain where he tries to go, all right, do you have, am I, are you loyal to me? But really he's like, I want you on my side because I need you to feel successful. I need you to make me feel validated as an Emperor. And he's like, no, no, I got somewhere to be. And that was another thing, an interesting scene at beginning was the reason why...

Marcus really wanted him as emperor because he didn't want it. And there's a whole probably discussion that we can have at some point is throughout history, every leader that we truly admire still today, hundreds of years after, is the reluctant one.

The George Washingtons, even Martin Luther King to a degree. Skies like that who had to be convinced. William Wallace, think was that way. Initially he was like, I don't want any part of this.

But the reluctant one. makes me think of, you've seen the Patriot with Neil Gibson? His character. didn't want to lead the militia. He was totally against it. He didn't want to fight the British. He just wanted to be at home with his family.

Cartwright Morris (10:45.934)
Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot of leaders like that. Yeah. George Washington wanted nothing to do. Like you said, he didn't want to do. Yeah. What was he? He didn't want to be a part of the army or something like that. what was, no, this is what was interesting is America really is what it is is because he decided I didn't want to be, he didn't want to be a king. Oh, right. Right. I want to serve, know, I want to serve. He served one term. was like, done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not interested in that. Yeah. Like that reluctance made, you know, what American

is. Yeah. Like it's not a it's not led by King. Yeah. By president by public servant. Yeah. Yeah and just think about politics today too. mean gosh like

You feel like if like who would be crazy enough to run for president, you know, it's the, you know what mean? Like why would you, why in the world? And so I think a lot of guys that would probably be really, really good at it. Yeah. Ineffective at it. Don't do it. Right. You know I mean? Like, they don't want, I don't want any part of that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's probably why a lot of our

Politics is so kind of upside down right because I think that would say Majority of them on both sides they want power. Yeah

And because it's what I love about the Lord of the Rings story and Tolkien really the whole theme of the whole is every character believes if I had the power I would use it for good. And that is the common theme throughout human history. If I had it I would use it for good. In 99.9 out of 100.

Cartwright Morris (12:20.11)
That's ends up no you use it for your own selfish gain or you use it for you if you don't realize it at the top Yeah, don't you think there's an aspect of like maybe some of these guys that are like maybe they're serious Maybe they really do believe it like no I really won't take advantage of the power or like do anything and then once you get in Yeah, I wonder if everything changes like how could you because power corrupts. Yeah, there's no doubt you have to be established in who you are

Yeah, power, like it's just, it's wild to think about. Like, when people have been writing this stuff for hundreds of years, or we should have movies about it, it's like, it's a real thing. Power corrupts. When you get some of it, and we all assume, I will do good with, that's why, like, the whole, like.

Communism socialism argument. It's just not it's not a real argument because we've seen it time after time when you give people a Small amount of people power and control over others. They will nine times out of ten not use it for good Even if they have good intentions

Right? Yeah. It's just, it's, it's a real human behavior. And I think that what's interesting about the movie Gladiator is that is like Marcus really goes, that's why you're qualified for this. Cause you don't want it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I think that's what's interesting is like, and so, and I, that's why I think, and we've seen, it's not just even government. see it in, you know, we've seen it in business. We've seen it, see it in family, right? You know, when certain men, get a level of,

Authority control and they abuse it. Yeah, they use it for yeah They use it others in it and it turns them into something that they didn't want to be. Yeah, and You know because I think it's sometimes you it's like we they're using the stuff in life that's

Cartwright Morris (14:20.43)
talk about here at MinerForge, like are you using that stuff in life to grow you and shape you to realize you're not a finished product or using some of that stuff in life to actually benefit yourself and grow you and so when it doesn't work out you get mad and angry. Yeah politics, and ministry for sure. Oh my goodness yes. Right I mean you you start you start a ministry it does really well you see a lot of lives change you get

you know, the return on, on people like buying into your ministry and then also buying into your Christianity or whatever, people getting saved and stuff. then man, slowly over time, how many times do you see certain people or ministries across the country, like kind of not be over time what they originally were at the beginning. And it's gotta be for

Not saying they're corrupt even though some might be but there's just kind of like a certain level of like decay that happens whenever humans start Getting more control and like more. Yeah, right when you say mean 100 % Yeah, yeah And it's and that's why you know, I think this movie is a good example It's like before you get into those you really have to find out who I am and make a decision going in

you have to really approach eyes wide open because, I mean, as to your point about ministries, you see in the name of the ministry, we're gonna be doing this for the growth, but what...

It's like that can be easily changed, manipulated, and you can step over people and do stuff that hurts the ministry in the name of for the ministry. Right. I was about to say, yeah, you think you're doing right by the ministry by kicking people to the curb and taking advantage because of the ministry and it ends up decaying. That's a good segue. I was going to ask you, what do you see in men in their twenties and thirties? Where do you kind of see this identity thing?

Cartwright Morris (16:23.048)
or, you know, or how, how can you think about it at least? Cause you know, lot of guys are aged, they're not going to be in positions where they like have the power quite now, but like, how do you, how can you kind of prepare yourself to like, cause to me, my initial thought is like, gosh, I really don't want to be that guy. I really don't want to be that guy. And then also within that same vein, I don't trust myself. Yeah.

You know what mean? I just don't trust myself. Like you can say, hey, bro, you're going to be a CEO of a big business in three years. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, I need to prepare for, I need to build something here so that I don't become that guy. What is that something you think? Like what can you do to help prepare for One, you could surround yourself with a few, like what we always talk about is just other older men. Some truth tellers. Some truth tellers.

Some people have failed. So that's another thing. We think we need to be around the successful. We need to be around the people that have made it in life.

probably lot of those guys have probably learned the most from their failure, but we've only seen the success, right? So how do we get around some of those like, there's truly humble, authentic, and we say those words, it's like, those are the people that have learned from their failure and they're willing to share that. You know? There's some humility, there's some, it's just humanity, they're human, we realize they're human, they're not some like...

Semi deity and I'm kind of being tongue-in-cheek, but some people act like that but how Tempting is that though? I mean if you have a team of people that like really respect you and like you've built something to You know, whatever the end point is we've talked about the end point not being all of right we shape it up to be but like I Could totally feel that I could see the temptation of like

Cartwright Morris (18:20.494)
Well, that person's definitely not right because I'm the guy that got us here. like, know what I mean? Like that's like the humility required is it almost feels like it'd have to be practiced daily, like beaten into your head in a way. Like, yeah. You know, because when you get those situations, that'd be tough. Well, I think if I could use the movie again, for example, is the tension of, you know, what leads to the moment.

where Marcus Aurelius dies and Comynist becomes emperor is...

Is is the virtues that Marcus really sees in maximus? He doesn't see in commonists and commonist response. He goes well I know I don't have his virtues, but I have other ones like ambition and you're like

and ambition can be used for something good like progress, know, mean, stuff that we hear all the time and ambitions, not a bad thing, but there's something about in life is, you know, I think we've talked about the living intention constantly. Yes, be ambitious, but also be humble. Learn to be passionate, but also find clarity. Yeah. You know, be willing to take feedback, be willing to open to hear other voices, be confident, you know, confident, but humble.

know yeah be willing to you know pursue growing in your strength in all areas of your life but also be value rest you know being at peace with where you are right there's just so many things that need to be held in tension in life that truth is held in tension and when someone leans so far the other way you know it really does borderline

Cartwright Morris (20:08.728)
or the ability to make decisions efficiently and quickly, but then also, but not too fast. You know, like make sure you get the right answers or, yeah, that's totally, mean, again, it's this thing that we constantly talk about here on this podcast. It's the tension that we live in as Christian men trying to navigate this world of like, there's always probably two things that are true.

and how do you balance both? And I think that's a massive thing that...

probably not ever like figure it out fully or maybe you do but I think through experience and through failure you kind of learn how to do that. Especially during your 20s and 30s. Yeah and that's what you should use in your 20s and 30s is figure out where do I lean on maybe that spectrum of you know and therefore you're aware of it. It's like my strength is actually you know I'm a driver I'm an ambitious guy I like to do go go go okay that's good but we're

is too much. When do I need to pull back? When do I need to learn to be more reflective and evaluate and think of things differently and have a more... What things am I gonna put in my life, right?

So yeah, it's like, think that's the 20s and 30s for us to figure that out. So when you do step into more leadership opportunities, you can be aware of that in others, know what they're motivated by. But two, like you're not putting, just grabbing people and putting them on your train and saying, all right, put up or shut up, you know, like, or, you know, are you on or off like mindset, which is like, that's not, you're only going to, you're going to turn around. There's only going to be people like you and that's going to lead to chaos. know?

Cartwright Morris (21:58.433)
Or you just got people constantly coming off. There's a lot of turnover. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and we all know the companies that have massive turnover all the time. Yeah, and the ones that don't. yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, it's a it's it's almost like I don't know the answer, but it really is a cool thought process. If you got stripped of everything. Yeah. Like Gladiator did. How would you respond? Yeah.

You know, that's kind of a, and I don't know, I don't know the answer, but it's a cool thing to think about. Cause I mean, one test for we can, and I go back to that scene where he is being like branded, what kind of fighter he is. and so they're, you know, so you, there are many moments like that where we feel this temptation where in a room or not.

people know us or know us that well, you know, and we got to like, especially in our 20s, and I've got to prove myself. Am I, you know, prove that I'm funny, likable, smart, successful, you know, talent? You know, there's always that moment we got to step, feel like we got to step outside ourself. And like, those moments are when you got to like draw, it's like, why do I feel like I need to prove myself to a bunch of strangers?

You know? Or it could be in a place where of like familiarity of like college buddies or it's just that feeling where you're like, this is who they know me to be so I have to be that, but that's not really me.

that temptation. So I think there's something to those moments of like learning how to like figure out who you are, what you're about, what do you prioritize and not feel like you got to step out of your own skin to please the guy next to you and just go, this is who I am. if they're, you know. Yeah, feels like that's just a constant. you like, so if you're in your twenties and you are wanting to prove yourself, it's really.

Cartwright Morris (24:10.304)
To me that, or maybe this was just me, but like I just want respect. Yeah. You know, and when you're 25, 26, 27.

even 33 like me, you're not gonna get much right now. know what mean? like how else can you, you know what mean? So if you're constantly trying to earn that respect by either your ambition or anything else, I mean that's just. Yeah, and where, I mean, but that changes per room, right? Yeah. You know, you could be in a business room with a bunch of guys you look up to in their 40s and 50s who have been successful and you're like.

I want respect from them. Or you'll be in a room with your peers saying it'll look different. It looks different. It's crazy how...

you end up getting the respect by owning up to mistakes. You know what mean? How much more is that, do you respect a guy that's like, oh yeah, I screwed up on that, than a guy that tries to cover his tracks and act like he's still got it done? You know what I mean? We've all been around the guy. We've all been that guy at some point. That's why, going back to the tension thing, I always say like...

Confidence is directly connected to humility because people who are truly confident are very aware of who they are and what they're not and how they failed. Where people who are arrogant, so there's a between confidence and arrogance, arrogant is the people that are trying to hide insecurity.

Cartwright Morris (25:32.921)
They're trying to hide the parts that they don't like or they feel weak or they've failed. How easy is it to dislike that person? my gosh. Yeah. You know, we pick up on it. It's like this innate thing in us that we pick up on it. Yeah. And it's like, how do we actually? Yeah, so I mean, I would say any guy that you felt that, I mean, I feel like I've been that kind of the room. You know, and you just how do you get to turn that that part of your brain off?

But we all have places, you know, it's all different and we walk into different rooms and we want to impress the room, whether it's rich people, athletes, you know, I mean, even family members or, you know.

especially our 20s, if there's a large group of young women my age, you feel that. Every guy in the room's got their chest a little popped and they're a little more quiet. I feel that temptation daily, I really do. I mean, just in business.

Like you want to be the one that's making a decision or you want to be the one that owns something that worked well. Or like even if you're working with other people that contributed more than you did, there is this temptation to be like, that was me. You know what I mean? That was me. So I think a good, maybe is it litmus test? Is that the word? Okay. So a good litmus test would be.

Are you, how are you in situations where somebody else gets credit for good work that you did? You know what mean? Like how are you? Do I need the credit? Yeah. Right. Do I have the muscle and the self control to be like, let them have credit.

Cartwright Morris (27:17.836)
You know what mean? Even if it was me that closed this deal or got this new account or fixed this problem in our operation and made it better, am I okay with somebody else getting credit? And am I okay with my boss knowing or thinking that it was somebody else? How are you in that situation? And I'm not great. It's almost like a, yeah, dude, I know I always say this, but it's a muscle you work.

You know what mean? And when you see or experience that in your 20s or early 30s...

And what you'll see long term is well one, they're going to find out who really did it over time. mean, truth, can't hold truth in for that long. And then when two, when people find out that you were willing to not take credit in that moment, you get even more respect. So it's almost, it's so funny how when you're, when you're humble about stuff, even if it doesn't get you the respect you want in the short term, it always seems to get you even more respect in the long term. And that's like a constant, I feel like.

You know what mean? Right. Yeah, a hundred percent. And think a good another litmus test is to really evaluate it as like as we're figuring out who we are in Christ, right? That identity piece, that foundation, like is Attaboy's affirmation, you know, knowledge been a good word. Is that an addition or is that?

Is that icing on the cake or is that feeding into my identity? I need it to feel confident. That's the difference. think sometimes we got to think, is this addition? And another piece to this bow is also like the context of like a false humility too, right? Which is really arrogance. like, oh no, thanks, fan. I always loved the line that was in a church once where it was like, when people come up to you, they're like, man, that was great and give you a compliment.

Cartwright Morris (29:14.34)
go, no, it's just Jesus. then the response people would start saying is like, well, it that good. It's like, yeah, like stop with the false image. learn to receive compliments, but receive it in a way for your behavior, not the identity piece. And that's where we got to.

you know, really be great about like living and dying off affirmation is just a poor way to live. Yeah. And I think a good like to your point, it really shows am I willing to be okay if somebody gets a credit for my work, for my accomplishments? It's like, because that is a mark of greater. Or if you're not, how do you like, we can get so creative and like, yeah.

Finding a way to communicate that it actually was me, you know, yeah 100 % another thing too. I so You know, I've done that for sure like, you know in an email being like I don't know everybody knows what we're talking about. Yeah, like yeah, man, so like I I've I've had this so in my job now, I've been there a few years, but early on

My position was kind of a new role and we didn't really know what it looked like and knew that I want to be a part of the team. I knew that I could add value somehow and they saw that too. And so we were trying to figure out this new role. And I think in figuring out that new role, I was constantly pushing for like.

Okay, this is what I did. This is what I did. This is what I did. And I think that wears people out that you're cause my boss who's amazing was like, he was, remember we had a talk on time and he was like, dude, you got to stop.

Cartwright Morris (31:00.59)
I already know who you are. already know. You know what mean? I know what you're about. He was like, you are already accepted here. You know what I mean? So stop trying to act like you gotta tell me every time something goes right or something like that. You know what mean? Like you're working from acceptance, not to acceptance. man, that changed my thinking entirely. It's like, okay.

Create some more subtleness. Yeah. Take a breather. You know what I mean? And just find ways to add value or do whatever. And then we eventually found out what the role was and it works great. But like,

Having that freedom from my boss Michael Hey, you're working from acceptance not for acceptance Was huge and by the way, what do we do on a daily basis with? with god and like in jesus like We're living from acceptance not for acceptance. Yes, and how quickly do we can we turn back to like? Man, I didn't do my quiet time this morning. Yeah, so i'm not in a good space with god right now, right? know what mean? Like

And that's something that you've coached me on is like, no, dude, you have to start working from accept. You are accepted. Yeah. You're valued. God knows exactly who you are. He knows exactly what you've done. He loves you. He created you. You're working from acceptance.

So to tie it back to the identity piece, it's like, mean, if we could just somehow work that into our brains daily of like, I'm working from acceptance, not for it. Um, it's changed my thinking entirely. Or not, not for good. Cause I have to remind myself every day. Right. But, um, but it is a good practice to like, try and think that way. And so if you have that mindset, that perspective, it's probably a little bit easier not to take credit for.

Cartwright Morris (32:52.79)
Or allow somebody else to have the credit. Or to have this insecurity that is in all of us in our 20s, 30s. Just like, how do I prove myself to these people? How can I be respected by these people that I respect? That's not an overnight journey. I will say that. And I think that sometimes we want to get to that finish line where we feel confident in a room with...

people that are successful or whatever and it's like it's just not a it's an ongoing like focus a mindset and I think after being in those types of rooms you really have to leave them and go why did I feel insecure on that person?

Why did I try so hard to get their approval? So yeah, think yeah, and so therefore it all comes back to our identity in Christ, to your point, Beau. Like how do And also too, like when you're in your 20s and that, and I guess, I mean, everyone works different places and they have different, there probably are places that like guys listening to this, their work environment is like, you know, you gotta prove yourself.

You know mean? And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, you gotta perform and prove yourself. But like, we've had some people that we've hired recently at Medplex, where I work. And it's so refreshing, and it always is better when you can tell the person, hey look, we're bringing you on because we like you. We know you don't have it figured out.

We know you're not gonna come in and change things and make things better. Now over time you're gonna give us great ideas and we're gonna listen to those ideas. But just have the freedom to come in and we like you. You know what I mean? That's why you're here. Now let's work together on figuring out the best way you can add value here, whether you're a medical assistant or a case manager or a salesperson. So you're here and we love you because that's why you're here.

Cartwright Morris (34:54.016)
But don't feel like you gotta come in and like change everything, not change everything, like improve things overnight or like prove your worth overnight. And I think like in my experience just saying that out loud to some people you can kind of see the...

monkey get off their back a little bit. know, it's just like, and they perform better. Yes. You know what mean? And it's a of grace in some sense. Yeah. Yeah. And their identity is not, I got to come in here and.

Change the world. Yeah, you know and guys I know guys like us that are in their 20s and 30s. I know that's a Well, yeah, most of us go in those environments and that's the mindset because we have it so no one's giving us permission So y'all doing that it just sets the tone. It's permission. That's right. It's permission of like hey You don't have to have it all figured out right like we you don't make a mistake. It's okay Just come to us. Don't try to cover it up. which makes creates that open door policy like it creates

some more collaborative environment and it doesn't like, hey, you better hit this or else kind of environment. And then therefore you're wanting to like hide your mistakes. You keep to yourself. You don't try to share the work. don't try to, you know, it's like.

It's funny, we've just seen examples of both for so long, but still people, like I say, and you just revert to a certain way of how you work or how you operate as a leader, and that's what the culture ends up being created. Yeah. You know? yeah, for sure. Yeah. And almost in a way like so. And you're not okay with people being different than you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and also, and just somehow trying to create a culture of...

Cartwright Morris (36:36.366)
hey speak up when you fail even if nobody else sees it and we almost in a way we don't celebrate the mess that the failure created but we do celebrate that hey it's cool that you said that now so you're out of the way together to fix it and celebrating the fact that it's been brought to light you know I mean because in our business like you people it's easy to make a mistake yeah and we deal with

like our main clients are attorneys and, and, you know, attorneys are great. but like, you know, they'll, they'll call you out. And, and so sometimes you have conversations with attorneys where they're not pleased and a lot of times they maybe aren't in like,

You know, so owning those situations where you did make a mistake and then you had a crazy encounter with an attorney or something like that. yeah. Yeah, that's really good. I like that. I like the the identity thing is massive. Yeah. Yeah. You know, especially for guys our age. You're starting a new job or you're you know, you're becoming a dad or you're getting married. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That's huge. feels like it can spiral pretty quickly. Yeah. You know, if you have the wrong view of that. Yeah, absolutely. What have you seen from guys that you've met with, that around our age? Is it normally around their career or is it sometimes? With families or? Yeah, yeah, because I think.

Yeah, I mean it's interesting. A lot of the guys I meet with, they'll come with me to me with a career problem and I'll see as an opportunity for them to really work on this stuff. That's not what I'm here for. I need a job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? And I'm like, man, this is the ideal opportunity, which can be hard sometimes, especially if you've got an expectation.

Cartwright Morris (38:43.212)
you know, of what you're coming through. But this is like, when you really sit down and think about this stuff, guys, this is, these are...

too many times, and I've hit on this before, we want money, resources, a job, relationship to insulate us from pain, from disappointment, from failure, right? And there's something that gets embedded in us maybe that from, maybe it wasn't a great childhood or a failure when we were young and we want adulthood to solve that problem, but it's learning how to go, no, okay, this is life.

You know, and, you know, these things are going to happen and they're part of my growth. You know? You know? Like, if I... Again, you're giving yourself freedom to make a mistake. Yeah. Because you're going to. It's just like, I can't... And so that way, when you do make a mistake, you don't beat yourself up about it because you knew you would. Yeah. You know? Yeah. you're living life. You're actually...

doing it. Versus some people try to therefore because of that belief system trying to insulate you pull back and you withhold and you hide or you just kind of hit the cruise control button and you numb everything out and everything bad that happens you're like you know. You know, ain't it happening? yeah. Give me that drink. yeah. It's like I'm numb this. Yeah. And you just try to keep going but it's like these things like

It's weird, it's more, I would say there's studies that come out more and more that say that men...

Cartwright Morris (40:23.094)
Generally live longer who or I think men and women live longer who have kids like there's studies out there And I think it is because in our modern day we can live so much for our life just full of comfort and discomfort free and Kids completely blow that ball up, you know, no matter what and they could be great kids You know, I have a great great son overall like it's been amazing sleeps well, right? But he's just gonna have tantrums

gonna he's he's going you know it's like his poop's gonna come out the side of his diaper it's not all gonna get caught you know like yeah I mean it should happen so being a new dad so Eli's about to be one by the way just wild

Like sometimes like I'll be changed his diaper and everything's going fine. He's not hungry. He's not and He'll just be like ticked, know, maybe he'll be screaming and I'll be like I'll have a thought We're like I'll be like what's wrong man. You're fine. Yeah, you know mean like it's all good. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, he's 11 months old I'm supposed to be the adult in room. Why am I like trying to negotiate here?

That's crazy. Yeah. And so my point, think going back to our discussion with Hooverman and Michael Goggins was like there, is something to like, though, though we have this mindset of like writing our past wrongs or living in the, in a state of constant comfort. It's like by having kids that struggle brings longevity because it's working parts of our brain that, that chooses the hard.

Like as parent you have to choose the hard. You can't just hit the cruise control button You have to engage you got a like deal with right in front of you. Yeah You know, it's like I mean this morning I got a little frustrated it was really funny because my son decided he said he wanted oatmeal so I made him some oatmeal and literally and then I started packing my Lunch and my food for the day and he saw this bar that I had and he goes bar bar bar

Cartwright Morris (42:42.284)
Bar, bar, bar. I'm like, son, son, are you like one of those birds from Finding Nebo? Do we watch that or something recently? And you're just like, and that's what he wanted. And you're just like, and there's no reasoning with them. It's like, no, we made oatmeal. So that's what you're eating. And there could be like, right. Yeah. And so, and it's hard, but in that moment where you're like trying to get your day ready going. Yeah. Question for you. Okay.

What point in life do you think most men start questioning their identity? When do think this identity thing? starts to Not be an issue But a focus even if they don't realize it. Yeah, I would say early 20s. It's our yeah hundred percent It was for me. Yeah, cuz there's something to like college. It can kind of hit right

Yeah, you know you just you know you got a little more freedom and you don't everything's not instruction for you and so maybe success You're learning how to find success with an unstructured environment, but it really happens. Yeah, probably when you step into that mid-20s and Not everything is candy canes and rainbow. Yeah, yeah, I mean mean so that was me by the way yeah, so like I was a

I graduated from Auburn in 2014 and I wasn't good enough to play football, but I knew I wanted to coach. And for years, throughout my, really my whole college career, I did business, but I knew I wanted to be Nick Saban, man. Like I wanted to coach football. I wanted to be around football. It's what I want to do. And I, I did tie my identity to it. And by the way, a lot of times in coaching, you'll see guys that totally tie their identity to it. And so when I was,

So anyway, so I literally left Auburn I started coaching high school at Woodlawn High School and Just loved the game. I loved everything the game like the relationships you get from the game You know all the all the great stuff that you hear about all these coaches say it's all true and and

Cartwright Morris (44:57.068)
got a college job from there, worked at Sanford, worked at Falkland University. But I was recently married and I literally, I would see Carly, my wife for about an hour and a half every Sunday morning. Like that was all I got to see her. I still loved coaching. And so I remember having this like,

not a crisis, like a really kind of fork in the road for me. like, okay, what am I going to choose here? Because I see all of the coaches five years ahead of me, 10 years ahead of me. Most of them are divorced. If they're not divorced, then they don't have good relationships with their families. It's almost like their families didn't even expect much from them, which to me is like even more painful. you know what I mean? And so Carlina had to make a decision like, okay.

I'm about to get out of coaching who that's been all I've been for the past five years. It's all I know. It's all the people I know. And, and so I had to choose like, okay, if I strip this away from me,

You know, it's who I am or kind of what we were saying, like my identity, is it enough? And, it was, and I think I made the right decision. I got out of it and started working in business. But, and I still have guys that I coached with that, like, and I remember when I was thinking about leaving coaches, I would tell my coaching buddies that I knew at other schools and stuff. Like, I remember having a phone call with one guy and being like, Hey man, I'm thinking about hanging it up and getting out. And so I can be with my wife and start a family and start thinking about

that and I'll never forget it was just silence on the other side of the phone and then finally he said something he was like what what what would you do yeah like there's nothing else out but that's so true like in especially in college football but there was a moment for me where I was like

Cartwright Morris (46:49.878)
Okay, I gotta make a decision here. Not because Carly was about to leave me, but like because you can see five years down the road. And the next step for us was gonna be like, who knows where across the country. And so now you, you move across the country with your new wife and then you don't see her again.

So then Carly's alone. Yeah. So now Carly's living in a city by herself, right? You know what I mean? And having to figure it out. like for me, I can totally relate to what you're talking about with the identity thing, because it was a very scary feeling of, when this stuff goes away and by the way, I still like, I loved it. I didn't want to leave. I wanted to coach. I, my day to day didn't feel like work. Yeah. You know what mean? I loved it. And, um,

But still making that decision was like scary not only because I didn't know if I would regret it or not But because well, who am I without this? Yeah That's and that's where it was interesting. I just the thought of I you know, I do like to you know help young men It's like especially if you're single like Really get excited about your job and be ambitious and try to grow that and hone a skill we've talked about that trying to master but like don't let it become your identity because

I think like that guy you're talking to that happens. It's just probably in every industry That's true is they get so embedded in and go like what else is there you can become so I mean it happens outside of industry But you think this is the greatest thing I think it's like I don't even think she was asking what else would you would do because I think everybody knows you can go you can find work Yeah, I think what he was asking me was is like

What do you mean? Like who are you outside of this? Right. Yeah. Like, I think he was probably thinking for himself, like, what would I, what...

Cartwright Morris (48:44.642)
Who you know what mean? Like who is this person without without football without football without coaching like this is this is what we do This is who we are. Yeah talking about the identity piece. I mean coaches always talk about in coaching like yeah, this is who I am I'm a football coach you hear that all the time you even hear Some of the good ones the great ones like Saban and all them say and I think part of it's true I mean they do have a calling to like work with young men or whoever whatever the successful business guy you're talking about

Like they probably feel like they have a calling but it's interesting to hear you say it's working in my brain now that there's like, yeah, you can feel called to do those things but your identity doesn't have to live in those things. I think that's where the disconnect is. And I think a lot of times, especially in your 20s and in your 30s as you're shaping into the man you're gonna be, I think a lot of times for us, especially where we live and...

you are tied to the work that you do. Right.

I mean, how many times do you see like, you know Carl Wright Morris? Yeah, I Carl Wright Morris. What's he do? What's he do? Yeah. Or they will be like, yeah, this is Carl Wright Morris. He's in ministry. Like you immediately tie people to their occupation. Right. Yeah. And so it's, it's hardwired in our brains. Right. Yeah. Like the first you meet somebody, what do you do though? Yeah. You know, which I hate that question. It's like, do a lot of stuff. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. But I mean, you're right. I mean, that's the first question you get. Yeah. But there's something too, like the, the, it's,

so easy because it's what we do on a regular basis to get your identity kind of hardwired in it. Oh yeah. But I mean... You spend the majority of your time doing it. Yeah. Right? mean that's just how... I third of your life pretty much if not more. Yeah. But realizing I am much more than that.

Cartwright Morris (50:32.75)
And I think that it helps when have a kid. Yeah. You know, mean, it helps when you have a kid. Right. I need to, I got to turn this off. Cause now I'm more concerned about how he's doing and what he's doing than what I'm doing. know, like my wife and I always joke, it's like, you know, I tell her sometimes that we're joking, but it's like, man, I'm going be a garbage man. I mean, I think you reach a point in your career where it's like, don't matter. Right.

I just want to make sure you guys are good. That's probably a healthy place to be. That is, yeah. I mean, that's another thing. If some people do probably get their identity wrapped up in being a father or a mother, right? That can be another thing that people could have, but at the same time. Well, because then your kid probably becomes perfect in your eyes. Yeah, right. Because that's majority of your energy is going to them. Then how could Eli make a mistake? You know what I mean?

You know, the teacher's wrong about that. He didn't mess up. No, right. But that's going to another thing of just like using to insulate yourself from pain and reflection, actively reflect and evaluate what's really going on here.

Man, we could really keep diving into this topic because it is like there's so many things we just want to wrap our identity around, which is why I think Gladier was such a good example. It's like those things are good. Yeah. But if you strip them away, who are you? What's left?

That question is really big. And then out of that, that's where you really do become a great husband or successful in whatever you do. It's the core of what you and I have discussed for five years, you being my mentor and coach. This is good and this is good.

Cartwright Morris (52:31.874)
It's the tension. I know we keep saying it. It's the tension. It's the, it's good to have an identity and like be known for doing a really good job at work or like, but, but don't let that become who you are. It's, it's yes. And you don't mean it's, it's like, it's both. Cause when you, because if you're, but if your identity does get attached to it, I will say this, I won't even use the business. I usually even as a, even as a husband, if my identity gets attached to solely, that's who I am. That's what makes me as being a good husband.

When you get feedback or when you fail as a husband you you crumble. Yeah, right. You just like no You know like and it happens in business like when we fail and in our work, it's like no How could I do and you just and it's like when identity is attached those things we live and die off of it is literally our existence is connected to it and Like that's not where life comes from sustaining of humanity. That's not where you become

It's like it's really learning to go. you can then receive feedback You then can learn from failure when your identity is not connected to it. right. So yeah, good point. Anyway, I don't know. Have we beat it? Have we beat this dead horse? Until next week. Until we beat the next day. This was good.