The Silent Crisis of Young Men by the Numbers | Episode 153

Most men are navigating an identity crisis fueled by hardship, fatherlessness, and a culture that discourages vulnerability. What if the key to forging a stronger, more resilient manhood isn't just about working harder—it's about understanding how to embrace the struggle, ask for help, and genuinely transform through community and faith?In this episode, Cartwright and Bo dive deep into the invisible voices from our past that shape how men respond to life's challenges—voices often telling us to fake it, suppress weakness, and go it alone. He reveals how those narratives keep us isolated, anxious, and stuck in cycles of depression or burnout. But there’s a better way. We explore how God's voice, reinforced through Scripture and meaningful relationships, can drown out the negative tapes and build confidence rooted in identity, not circumstance.You’ll discover: 

• The startling statistics about today’s fatherless, anxious generation of men in their 20s and 30s—what they face and why it matters
• The difference between vulnerability and victimhood—and why learning to share your pain without wallowing is a game-changer
• Practical ways to cultivate community that doesn’t just fix problems but transforms identity—leveraging faith, accountability, and intentional mentorship
• How knowing you're deeply loved by God frees you from pretending, silences self-doubt, and empowers you to lead with integrity and trust
• The importance of embracing hardship as the forge for true manhood—building resilience, wisdom, and trustworthiness for the long haul

This episode isn’t just about diagnosing the problems men face; it’s a rallying call to step into the redemptive process of being forged into the man you’re created to become. If you’re tired of superficial solutions and ready to courageously face the pain and pursuit of authentic growth, this is essential listening.Perfect for men in their 20s and 30s hungry to understand how hardship can turn into purpose—and for mentors and leaders seeking to guide the next generation in authenticity and faith. The path to becoming a man of trust, strength, and humility begins here.

Sound Bites

"Work harder, but ask for help too."
"A true friend says, 'You too?'"
"No man is an island."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation
05:24 The Importance of Embracing Hardship
11:13 Fatherlessness and Its Impact on Young Men
17:14 Building Confidence Amidst Adversity
21:54 Finding Balance Between Acknowledgment and Action
28:12 The Importance of Asking for Help
34:04 Identity and Emotional Regulation
43:04 The Need for Guidance and Mentorship

Transcript

Cartwright Morris (00:03.15)

Anyway, welcome to Men Are Forged Is that how we will start it? Bo Morgan, excited that you are here, man. I love being here, man. This is fun. I'm still humbled you asked me to do this, really. Really? It's fun. appreciate that. man, it's been, you brought a lot of energy to this, energy to me, and I've been, this has been a blast. Appreciate all those who's sending questions. Well, that'll be coming out this coming Monday.

episode so that'll be really fun and I really appreciate you somebody else send in some more because I think so yeah yeah but today I got something that's kind of just been burning on me the last couple days really thinking about in the context of men being forged the forging process and and that is like men in their 20s and 30s like

There's so much like luxuries we have that maybe previous generations that have, but overall you really do think about it, what it means to be in your twenties right now, what is happening. And I just got some numbers for you though. What I'd love to talk about. Love numbers. Love them numbers, some statistics. So this generation and talking about men, you know, early twenties to...

early 30s. So it's a little mix of Gen Z and Millennials. So most medicated generation for anxiety and depression, right? We're talking about it more too. Most likely to, but despite our medicated, we're more likely to overdose, commit suicide, or be incarcerated.

and Gen Zs are not dating, marrying, or procreating as much as previous generations. The portion of those who are never going to marry is doubled. Which I don't know you get that number. anyway, we're most in debt. We have the highest cost of living, lowest home ownership for those in our 20s and 30s. And probably the big one that really

Cartwright Morris (03:28.025)
kind of maybe sums it up all that we are the most fatherless generation. Like we want it at least, at least depending on even you can break it up in different categories, but at least one in four men in their twenties and thirties right now grew up with an absent father. One in four. Is that the, is that U.S.? Yeah, the U.S. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Just to start y'all off with some depressing... Welcome to Men Are Forged So as we've had the conversation early this morning, it's like something is, you know, you can't avoid it. Yeah. You know, it's it's happening to you or you're embracing it. You are being forged. Something in your life is hard and it's...

But.

I guess the silver lining, I don't even want to say the silver lining, the redemptive part of it, the beautiful part of it is it's building, it's turning you, it's forging you into someone, into something that you, that is what we all really want, is to be a man of integrity, a man who is valued and trusted in our community, that has wisdom to share, that is successful beyond just even the monetary.

That's part of it, but that's right. I think that that part if we're willing to embrace that and that's part reason why these successes we haven't really either been shown because we didn't have a father in the home or there hasn't been enough intentionality of other men in our life giving us permission to

Cartwright Morris (05:18.982)
Really in our 20s go. this is this is part of it. This is it This is the stuff this pain this tension this frustration. I'm feeling that that is that is what I Need and I need other men alongside me to help me do this to walk this out. I Think that's what I wish someone told me at 25. Yeah, I Think I you know, definitely I played the victim card for sure of like everything was happening to me

it was always an outside in, like, you know, why I just need someone to give me a chance. I just need to catch a break. I just need, you know, like that language. And how do you flip? And it's really, how do you change from behavior modifications to forging strong mindsets that really sustain you for your life? And you can only do that really in the hard.

And so that's, I feel like the episode today I really want to kind of get into of like, yeah, there's something to, okay, we're feeling it on all sides right now. And it's like, man, and we could easily, it could easily, yeah, overwhelm us to the point of like, man, I quit. I know I've had that thought.

my 20s, 30s, and now in my 40s, I'm just like, done. I can't do anymore. So that thought, I don't want to sit here and dismiss if you're having that thought, but if you're having that thought, that's not the problem. It's okay. It's how you respond to then going, okay. What do need? First of all, do need some sleep? Do need some food? Do I need to laugh, be with friends? My wife.

whatever. Like I just need to have a day but then to okay all right. How I'm gonna wake up the next day and ask for God's grace and wisdom and strength to then fill me to keep going. To find that all right there's something that's being built in me there's something that that is really good that's coming from this. And if I try to avoid it I'll

Cartwright Morris (07:36.975)
stay the same, if not get worse. And that's the difference between men that we admire and are drawn to in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and the ones that we just kind of, meh. The ones that we're drawn to are the ones that embrace this, that actually valued this, that actually saw this opportunity to move to become better men.

So anyway, yeah, it's kind of that is really interesting. I guess my first thought to be

Cartwright Morris (08:17.504)
No, you're good. We can edit that out. That was actually my mother-in-law. was it? Yeah. You need to get it? No. No, because my mother-in-law called my wife. this is her computer. Yeah, which I wouldn't need that.

Cartwright Morris (08:33.964)
Yeah, so I think, I guess my first thought is like, if you're listening to this, it's like, well, there's nothing new under the sun, right? So you think about like, what about guys in their twenties and thirties in the 1930s and forties? And it was like, well, they, you know, they went to war and they did all these things, but it's still feels different today because of the fatherlessness.

thing that you mentioned because the guys that back then I think I'd be interested to know like what the percentage of fatherlessness was back then compared to now I bet it's pretty drastically different. Yeah yeah I it's like I would say a lot I think I saw it where the boomers it was probably yeah it was not it was like one in six yeah one in seven you know and you know some to those degrees it was probably

Benny Boomers, the parents stayed together. Even if it was harder, more difficult and it wasn't a good situation. So we're not, it's not necessarily like, or maybe this is more of a question. It's not so much saying, guys have it harder now. It's just a different situation. So it's not separating, well it was hard back then too. can just hear, but know, but so that's not really the claim. The claim is it just looks totally different.

now. Right? I mean I will say from a fine like the I I think this is the big one that people keep coming up is from like a financial like the cost of living was lower you know the there you know there's a lot of numbers we get sitting here and talk about the nuances between them. Right right right yeah. But then the day yeah there there is a I think a consistent story throughout men in their 20s and 30s and

And maybe there's a different focus, there's a different value system. But at end of the day, you know, maybe we think about as millennials, oh, we're valuing more of the right things than our fathers did. They were more going to work 10 hours a day and grinding. And that was their forging. Where millennial men are wanting to stay home more and you know, all that. But at the same time, we have a higher rate of suicide.

Cartwright Morris (10:49.23)
more medicated, we're dealing with suicide and depression more. Granted, they are keeping the statistics more because more people are reporting it. I suicide, right? That's a pretty obvious one, but depression and anxiety. But yeah, there's just something that's happening, I think that these numbers that feel overwhelming for men right now in their 20s and 30s that we can really...

that, I don't know, just speak to a larger narrative that you're right, that is across generations, but that is really true for those who are in it right now, that we can say, you can either embrace this, lean into it, be forged by it, or you could just constantly avoid it and keep medicating it or with not just drugs, but...

alcohol, video games, TV, Netflix, pornography, whatever, right? Well, the access to that stuff now is... yeah. yeah. You pull it up on your phone in two seconds. Yeah, yeah. Our dads, was the magazine under the mattress. Right, right, right. Yeah. Right. And now it's everywhere. yeah. It's on Netflix. Yeah. You know, you can hardly watch a show now without some crazy scene happening within the first five minutes. Yeah, that's really interesting. But I think so.

I guess the one that resonated the most with me was because I have an amazing father was the fatherlessness part of it because to be honest, it's almost like when you're in your 20s, I mean had multiple times in my 20s where I would go to, I had somebody to go to in my dad to be like, hey.

you know, going through this hard thing with a job or with a relationship or whatever, and he could give me guidance. And one thing that I think men are good at, older men with wisdom are shining light on, or at least encouraging like, Hey, yeah, it's like exactly like you're saying, Hey, this is hard.

Cartwright Morris (12:57.155)
this is how you go through it, not around it. You know, this is, hey, I went through the same thing you went through, you what or something similar. So then you have the feeling of like, okay, I'm not alone here. not the first one to go through this. You know what I mean? But if you don't have that...

then I could totally see how it would, I would have slipped into the, well, this is unique to me and this is so unique to me. Nobody else is dealing with this with me. and then there's just that feeling of isolation that probably comes with that. is causing the suicide and the anxiety and depression and all those things. And then on top of that, like you said, we have so many ways that our brain tells us that this is how you medicate that. go to this website and look at this video.

It'll make you feel better for five minutes. Yeah, you know, mean here it does. Yeah, I mean and it doesn't and just for five minutes, right? exactly or or just pick another feeling that comes on they're like, right. Yeah, exactly. It'll work go pig out on this show or

Or food. Or food. I do the food thing man. Definitely do the food thing. The cinnamon toast crunch will make you feel better. Which then just makes you feel miserable. Well one, also realizing there is literally nothing nutritious in it. it's actually none of it has God made in there so it's like even worse.

Right, right. The milk. The milk is good. Right, but it's like, but the protein is probably made in some lab. You know, it's not actually coming from an animal. Listen, I'm just telling you how that just arrived. But I mean, this is, so I would say that the narrative that was probably, so if even if you did have a father in the home, the narrative was, okay, yes, life's hard right now for you. That's just the way it is.

Cartwright Morris (15:03.094)
You just gotta white knuckle it and figure it out. And you know, that there was like, that's how I had to deal with it. That's that language. So.

Men, it's like, that's sometimes, for a lot of men, that just hasn't really worked. There's some men that's that's exactly what I to hear, I'm just gonna go do it, go figure it out. I would say a lot of those guys lead to burnout, midlife crisis, all that, but I think there is something too, like having a man's like, yes, life in your 20s is hard. I know what you feel, know, I've been where you are. Here's how to navigate it.

That's, I think that's what we talk about men are forged. That is the community or what we're trying to encourage is like, how do you get somebody alongside you? That's, you know, it's been there before navigates with you, you know.

You know, I think it always comes with the first, know, John 15, it's like Jesus says, to your advantage that I leave, because my advocate is coming. That's where the Holy Spirit comes. And when you got a man who's being guided by the Holy Spirit that comes alongside you and helps you hear, you know, that voice, that stillness, that, that leading, that impression on your heart to follow what he is saying, you know, cause he doesn't, he only speaks on behalf of the Father, right? Anyway, let's get into some theological there.

What I'm saying is there's been a narrative from generations before to ours of like, yeah, it's just part of it, you have to figure it out. And most people are age-specific response has been a...

Cartwright Morris (16:44.276)
overreaction to it of, guess what, it's different than what you did. You didn't have the hardship that I have. And so therefore, because it's different, I don't have to listen to you. Or I get angry that you say that to me. You know? So you can either get angry or you wallow. And I say there's probably a narrative and a justification for both right now.

where I think we're like, we've talked about many times, but there's gotta be a, there's a third option. And that's where you're trying to create, you know, I love creating, being at the place, the center here in Birmingham is trying to create that third option. we're doing here and mentor forged and build that community and really encourage men, whether they're going through their twenties or in their forties and fifties. And they want to help somebody in their twenties is like, this is what they need to hear. This is what they need someone to come along.

then there's a permissional thing of like, I see you where you're at. Yeah.

And guess what? Here are couple of things you need to work on in the midst of this. Like, I mean, met with a guy yesterday and it's like the language of, you know, I feel behind. He's 26. You ain't behind. You know, cause he's not getting married or he doesn't have a serious girlfriend or he's in debt more than his other friends are. And he's, you know, or living at home and doesn't have his own place. You know, all that stuff at 26, you could feel the weight of the

and you're like, man, you're killing it. You've got a good job, you're getting a promotion, you're taking care of, he's working out five days a week, he's building a solid friend group and community, but it's like those, it's like he's feeling this lack of confidence because he's still living at home and...

Cartwright Morris (18:38.978)
You know, you know, and he's not making enough to get himself completely out of debt right now. It's like, man, there is something to when the circumstances are telling me the opposite of how I should feel, that when confidence then rises to spite of that. That's where true confidence that lasts the rest of our life comes from when the circumstances are telling us something different than...

how we should feel. That come against that we should feel confident in ourselves and who we are, where Christ has us. That's where I think the language of men are forged. We should have confidence that we're going through something hard because we're being built for something and we shouldn't look at our circumstances and go, well, I just feel behind or I feel lack of...

I'm trying to think the wording.

I feel less than, that's the word I was looking for. Less than. I feel I don't feel successful. I don't feel like I can ask a girl out. I don't feel like I can go for this promotion because I'm going through all this. It's like, are the things that are making you confident when you choose to hit those head on versus the opposite. Anyway, you call me on a ramp,

Cartwright Morris (20:05.662)
What do you think? Do you think guys are in their twenties and thirties? they, are they afraid to say this out loud to somebody? Yeah. And so do you think, why do you think that is? Terrified? Well, I mean, one is it's going back to this internal thing that this insecurity, this vulnerability of like, if I admit weakness, therefore I am weak.

Which we know, we can say this from a biblical standpoint, it's like, yeah, when you're weak, then you are strong, right? That's a Bible verse, that comes from the words of Jesus in Paul. when I'm weak, my power made perfect in weakness. That's when we can, and therefore, when we say that out loud, we're inviting God.

we're inviting others to pull from their strength. And actually, therefore, when I'm weak, then I'm strong. But that vulnerability, that insecurity of admitting I'm weak, because we've been ingrained in something, whether it's our football coach or whatever father figure in our life says that we gotta fake it till we make it. We gotta look the part. We gotta look this certain way or we're not that.

Everybody's been there that place where they they're weak. They need others. They need strength. That's like the whole Man on Island thing. I did this all by myself is such a lie Anybody who says that is lying to themselves Somebody gave you a break somebody paid for your services somebody, you know,

There's always, we are no man as an island. It's just not possible. So, but we all think that we live in that mindset. I'm like, gotta come be that self-sustaining, you know, and to admit weakness that I'm not moving towards that, or don't feel like I'm moving towards that, is to admit that I will never become that. And that insecurity is dragging men down into why all these numbers are going up.

Cartwright Morris (22:20.815)
anxiety, higher depression, higher addiction rates, all the above, right? Isolation, we're not dating as much because we don't feel as confident. We're not getting married, we're not having kids. Well, I didn't even think about it. The birth rate is below two for the first time in a long time. Think about that. We're dying off.

mean, one, because we live in culture that doesn't promote the family unit.

and the value of that when that's the only way that really values really get instilled in people, right? But it's just me. I get that. Yeah, it's a tough subject. It's almost, there's a, we always talk about the balance here. So there's a balance in what we're saying, I think, or maybe I'll phrase it as a question, where you can help me kind of dissect this a little bit. So yes, there is value in, hey, understand this is,

what you're going through, there's value in figuring out how to ways to get through it. But that doesn't necessarily mean you white knuckle and you just try to figure it out. What's the difference there? So do you understand what I'm asking? So there is value. just thinking about like when I, so a lot of people probably know, so I've got,

A guy's name is Khalifa Keith. He plays football. He's in college. And my wife and I have really...

Cartwright Morris (23:56.351)
he's really become part of our family. I find myself, he calls me every day and it's, know, being a college athlete is hard and it's, the amount of time you have to spend in the facility and doing all these things and working out, they're working out twice a day right now. They're doing, he's having to learn the playbook. He's having to do his school stuff. He's having to do all these different things. He's got a girlfriend that is in Tennessee and he's in Tuscaloosa. It's just all these different things.

And so sometimes, if you can probably coach me on this, sometimes it's like, man.

Get it done. Just do it. You know what mean? Like, hey man, you're in an amazing spot. Get it done. When you don't want to do something, do it anyway. Like just get it done. So we've got that. And I feel like that's true and it certainly resonates. It works with him. So it may not be true for everybody, but still, so, there's this other piece that you're kind of talking about where it's, acknowledging, yes, it's hard. I guess sometimes I'm just like,

with guys that I talked to, not even just Khalifa. It's like.

It does feel like sometimes if you if you acknowledge, hey man, yes, it is hard or yes, you're going through something difficult in my mind and this has probably been ingrained in me. You're almost in a way giving them permission to like, yeah, be like, I'm kind of a victim here. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So what's the balance on that? Like, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I think it's going back to what we've talked about that you have really encouraged guys who listen to this. It's like you got to just do what the other people

Cartwright Morris (25:37.616)
And I think that's you got to do with other people.

Yeah, that's the plain way of putting it, right? Because the wallowing, the victimhood is isolation. Which I have been terrible at that, I'll raise my hand. I can't remember which episode, I talked a little bit about that, like, putting your head down and kind of like, don't engage. Because I fear if I do engage and I fail, then I'm a failure, right? But then there's the white-knuckling and just putting your head down and then you look up and you're like, I have...

no joy from any of that. didn't look around and smell the roses kind of thing. And so I think that's where, yeah that third option, I can remember a time when I was like 28, 29, had a mentor in my life I was meeting with on a regular basis and...

What kept coming up was like trying to deal with a long-term relationship a relationship I wanted to happen that was long distance and He eventually was like I just can't keep talking about this You're like man that kind of sucks But here's somebody you can talk to with it. That would be great to talk to that You know that I think you would be it's like he just Basically pointed me to somebody else

And not that way he wasn't interested in me on what happened. It was just he couldn't be the person to really talk to me about that struggle. And I think maybe an example for Khalifa is just like, who can you find there that's... What's been the big pain point here? Is it school?

Cartwright Morris (27:22.702)
Is it just getting up every day and going, like, who can come alongside you and maybe come wake you up and who can you ask to come get you every day and go to workouts? Or is there a tutor there that you can talk with school or a teammate that's really been really good at that class and you just need to be around them more and, you know, see how they take notes or something, know, stuff like that. That's where, but that's a vulnerability. I mean, maybe that's the, you know, the point that we've, you know, they've really talked about in the last 10, 15 years with men. How do I,

how do we see vulnerability as good thing?

Not just being transparent because transparent is about being the information. Vulnerability is about sharing the heart. Why am I struggling? The pain I'm feeling. So it's vulnerability without the victimhood. need help. Because victimhood wants you to want to stay in that. You want to stay in that place of just wallowing. kind of gives you, victimhood in a way, of gives you permission to sit back and not really try and change anything because it's just unique to you.

of a false sense of power that you get from victimhood. That I have control over the wallowing and therefore I don't want to move out of victimhood because this is giving me some level of comfort. But you say the same. Where...

being fighting somebody in and being vulnerable is going, Hey, I have this pain point in my life. I'd love your help if you're, yeah. you're able the core of wanting to get better. Yeah. So the core of the vulnerability is really the only action item within that is to, ask for help. If you're being vulnerable about something to somebody, you're essentially inviting them in to help you. Yes. Which is what I think a lot of guys struggle with. Yeah. You know I mean? Because I mean, think about it even at work.

Cartwright Morris (29:11.329)
Like, I'm sure we've all had that negative experience where we have asked for help and we got shot down or we got belittled or we got dismissed. And so most of us in our young minds, especially before 25 when it's fully developed is going, well, I'm not doing that again. I guess I got to figure this out on my own.

but stepping over that fear. I mean, I don't know if I want to go down there, but there is, there's just, I, this is very true of me. And I imagine there are lots of guys out there. We have voices from the past that tell us that are like narrating our life.

And I would say a lot of them aren't very good. They're either old friends, could have been a father figure your life, a coach where you just feel their voice on certain actions you're doing, like why are you doing that? Don't.

That's stupid. Why are doing, you know, like that those voices are in our head and maybe it's our own internal voice, but we've heard when we keep hearing that narrative and it keeps us from drawing, pulling away from others and not engaging and learning, put those voices to bed and allowing that that internal voice, your own voice, as well as the voice of really Jesus. That's why we need to read the Bible. I'll say that. That's one of the main reasons why we need to read the Bible is we need that. We need God's voice to rise up in us to be stronger.

to speak over those voices, to have a counterbalance. For every, Newton's third law, for every action there's a reaction. We need that action that says when one says we're stupid or we're not qualified or you'll look weak in a failure if you go do this by admitting this or doing that, asking for help. We need that other voice of like, no, this is how you grow. This is how you become a man. This is how you solve this problem.

Cartwright Morris (31:04.758)
Yeah, so what I struggle with as we kind of flesh this out, more about, and again, we're talking about the current situation with guys in their 20s and 30s. And I think this is probably valuable in some ways sometimes, and then it's not valuable in other ways. It may be depending on who you're talking to or who you're trying to help in that moment. But I do feel like...

there are times where, know, so maybe we can debate this. Okay. So I do feel like there are times and we were just talking to my boss, Michael, about this in here a second ago, where it's like, Hey man, I don't see the, you you're saying, you're saying you have this issue, let's call it at work or whatever, or let's call it with the relationship. I'm not seeing the effort on your part.

to try to improve this. You know what I mean? And it's like, well, it's hard. It's two of these things. can't, you know, I'm not able to perform well in this job because, for whatever reason. But if you don't see the effort side, and maybe the efforts that we're talking about is like the asking for help and being vulnerable. But it's like, hey man, sometimes I'll just say the way I'm thinking it. Sometimes you need to work harder.

And I feel like sometimes with guys in their 20s and 30s, it almost feels like, especially where we're from, there may be almost a sense of entitlement in a way. And then.

guys that aren't from where we're from. It's kind of the same thing. Maybe sign a title, but it's, it's, uh, it's laziness. I think there's a lot more laziness probably for guys in their twenties and thirties now. And, it's more like, Hey, Oh, I'm here working. So like that should be good. And it's like, well, no, you gotta work harder. Um, you have to,

Cartwright Morris (33:07.915)
you have to really commit yourself to, you know, doing a good job for you and for the company or for you and your family, whatever that thing is. So I think I struggle with like the,

I understand things are harder now, absolutely. And we all feel that. it's certainly, I mean, you go to Publix right now, you're not walking out without spending 150 bucks. Oh yeah. I mean, especially if you're kid. If you're getting everything your wife wants. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. And then you'll look up on Wednesday night and be like, where'd all the figure? We just spent all this money on this thing. So I get that. And then with the interest rates, I get that too. Like if we...

You know, I just told you if we refinanced our house right now, we couldn't afford our house. You know what mean? So, so I get all that. I just do think that like, man, I just wish that sometimes I just wish sometimes these guys would just like almost, I guess in a way I almost feel the value in the white knuckling sometimes it's like, Hey, let me, let me work harder and see what happens. Well, so I would say sometimes is the, the white knuckling.

is those people need to ask for help too because sometimes they need clarity on what they're white-knuckling towards. That was me. Yeah. Right? Like you could, I'll just grind this out and get this done and then I'll look up, you know, a week later and my boss is like, why are you working at that so much?

You like I didn't, know, that's, know, you're doing it wrong too. It's like, I was, got my head down and I just was getting it done. I'm like, well, both sides need probably both mindsets need input, need clarity. Like where we're heading. I'm, I'm, I'm with you. I'm a hundred percent with you on that. That sometimes like, Hey, we just probably need to, especially in your twenties need to figure out how to work harder or go get those bumps and bruises. mean, I think this is what I, I,

Cartwright Morris (34:58.356)
I always come back to this identity piece. This is why we have to figure out who we are in Jesus. Like more than anything, we have to have that, going back to the voices thing. Like we have to have His voice the loudest in our life. Because...

When we know, I this is what biology is starting to tell us, that the most healthy and successful adults in life are the ones that grew up in a loving household, that there was a high level of emotional regulation and attention to the important things in life because they go in the world and they live from a place of knowing that they're loved. They're not going out to do things to be loved. interesting. So when you know you are

are loved, you can take feedback and go, oh, this isn't, I'm not living and dying. My identity is not living and dying off of what you have to say. Okay. That I can go in, I can white knuckle it and find out, you know, we could turn around like, oh, I was doing it wrong. Or I can go, man, I don't know what to do. I can ask for help. I'm like, I kind of feel hamstrung of how to do this job. Well, maybe I should go talk to somebody and go, oh, and then if they, give me some really bad advice or they beat me.

up or yell even yell at me I can go, that didn't feel great but probably some truth to what he's saying. Yeah. You know, he or she. Yeah. You know, you know, I've been yelled at before and been chewed out and you kind of go, okay but what are they really trying to say? Oh, they just they want me to do this job differently and that's the only way they know how to communicate. Granted, does that person probably need some counseling and help of how to talk to people? Yeah, at the same time sometimes we can discern, we can we can see the farce

the trees when that part of us, identity in who we are in Jesus is settled. This is who I am, this is what I'm about, this is the skill set I have, the personality I am that makes me, I know that allows me to thrive and so therefore I can get help in those areas. Does that make sense? Yeah does. And that part doesn't come alone either. that does make sense. Yeah, that's a good point and to get back to the original part of the conversation.

Cartwright Morris (37:14.881)
If you don't have that

father figure in your life to then know I am already accepted by this. And let's be honest, it's men. Like as men, we need men in our life to know I'm accepted by this man, whether it's your biological father or whoever it may be. So that when he does correct me, because we all need that, trust me, I'll need it in the next five minutes. That I'm still loved, I'm still accepted, I'm still doing the

I think so that makes sense. think I think you can say Like I can say to Khalifa. Hey, hey, man, you gotta work harder Yeah, like to me it doesn't feel like you're working harder and to be clear. He's working really hard right now I'm not saying there's no issue with Khalifa now. Certainly fat issues in the past couple years, but like very small issues even at that but like He knows that I love him. He knows that I accept him

he can, he can, I'm not going to betray him. I'm not going to leave him. I'm not going to do any of that stuff. And so it kind of gives me freedom to say those things like you or my dad or Michael or whoever else, I know I'm accepted by you. So it allows me to then be vulnerable with you in a way. that vulnerability piece.

I think is that kind of the core of what guys right now in their 20s and 30s are missing? guess. this is, yeah, this is what so for all right. If we're talking about the virtue or the the value of being loved, knowing you're loved like that, I think in everybody's psyche and person needs to know that and that should set you free.

Cartwright Morris (39:11.042)
But in some ways that's not necessarily the end point even in this life, right? That because I know I'm loved, then I can become a very highly trusted person. So that's the next step that we're talking about here. That okay, when I can take feedback, that then I can be vulnerable and then I can gain trust with those that I admire and value in a loving, healthy relationship. Because that's where we're getting to, to the point, to your original question of you got to do the work.

Because therefore like okay now that I'm loved how do I move to being high highly valued and trusted?

And I think that's what a lot of men that are probably listening or wanting like then today like yeah, yeah, there's probably some unsettledness of knowing that I'm truly love and accepted. But I think ultimately we're trying to like, how am I? I want to be a highly valued and trusted person in people around me. It's like, okay, that's when you got, that's when they're like, okay, from love, not for it, but from it, I then do the work, do show up, do grind, you know, and therefore, yeah, yeah, yeah, ask for

help. I am more prone to be more trusting in someone if they're willing to go, I'm still trying to figure this out. Can you help me? Just give me some direction on how to do this better. I'm not quite getting it. Much higher level versus somebody who worked on something on their own for a month and all of sudden like...

you know, flame turned into a forest fire kind of thing. It's like, I tried to put this out by myself and I couldn't do it. And now the forest is burning down. That person I don't trust as much. Yeah, and if you've surrounded yourself with men like that, man, talk about like activating, like I've got guys in my life that are...

Cartwright Morris (41:11.255)
leading businesses and doing all these things. like, man, it's been my experience that when you ask for help, you'll find that these high performing guys that you want to be like from their family lives, you can tell like Christian men who

that you aspire to be like, man, they will drop everything to help you. I mean, I've never had an experience where I'm like, hey, can you help? Can you give me some guidance on something? And the person's not like squared in focused on you. People love doing that. Yeah. Good people love doing that. I would say people that.

Like I have, know that I have a lot to give and someone asks for it, here. And also I think it is in the manner of what you're talking about. I think it's coming from a place, you know, people can sense that it's like, like, yeah, I think it is the difference between like the victimhood mindset of like, woe is me, you know, I just need you to give me a chance kind of mindset versus like, hey, I'm, doing this and I need your addition to really kick up, to get it going, to really make it actually turn into something. And I think people can sense

that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where you know more in my life I've started like valuing strong opinions because it's like I don't have to take everything they're saying. Yeah. I don't have to take it all. I could take the you know the parts that make the most sense to me because I'm already moving towards something. I don't have to live and die off what they say and get their acceptance from what by

doing what they said, I'm already at that place. So it really does free you up to actually work in a place that from a more productive standpoint.

Cartwright Morris (42:55.566)
Yeah, and essentially you say that too, because I'm thinking of two people that I know who both lead businesses that whose approach both highly successful people that I want to be like, not just from a business standpoint, but their families. mean, their kids are obsessed with them. Like, you know what I mean? Like they've got it and totally different approaches. Yeah. You know, I mean, totally different. One is like, one is like the

hey, I'm going to put my metrics in front of you. I'm going to help you out along the way, but if you don't make it, you don't make it. know, and speaking of business terms, not family, obviously. And then the other one's like, let's get to know the person. Let's kind of figure out the nuance to this in a way to make it work. Both seem true, just totally different. And so that's kind of cool too. You know, different approaches that probably work in that way.

So I guess to bring it full circle in what we're saying, like, so that's what, that's what we're missing right now. The millennials and Gen Z's were missing that. yeah. Well, kind of the truth serum of it, like somebody to help guide. Yeah. I would say, you know, I heard somebody speak, you know, it was probably eight, nine years ago.

guy who's kind of consulting older generations on the millennial generation and he's like yeah right now we're we're learning from our peers it's like that's just not good so therefore what ends up happening we end up

either becoming entitled or we wallow, right? We just, you just live in that circle and we need input from a generation above us. so pursuing that or, or even just people a little bit older than us who, who we admire some of their qualities. yeah. So I would say that that piece is how do you create that more in your life? There are people that are, it's wild to me. I talked to some people that just do it naturally. It's like, yeah, I got a group of eight to 10 guys that I get business advice from.

Cartwright Morris (45:00.737)
on a weekly basis or a monthly basis. Or yeah, my friends, get together and we we talk, share about the struggles and pains and give great advice and input, you know? And then there's some people that's like, I just got nobody to talk to about this. It's really wild and then like just, just some of it.

Yeah, how it comes in. Yeah, it's interesting. But I think, yeah, I think that is a missing piece. Where can I find a place where I feel known and loved, but also challenged? I think that's probably the challenge of every parent. How do I become the safe place for my child to land, but also a catalyst in their life towards their growth and success? I feel like that's probably every parent probably feels that tension all the time. And some probably have leaned one way the other and gone one or the other has led to probably stuff that

they don't love. Do you know Cam Haines? Yeah. Yeah. He's a professional, I think he's a professional bow hunter. Yeah, that's right. And he's a good friend of Joe Rogan. They've got a great episode where they went elk hunting. Anyway, but he kidmitted recently. It's like I treated my sons like soldiers when I raised them and I completely regret it.

So he wanted to be the catalyst for his son's success. Like, you need to be waking up 5 a.m., working out, studying, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing. And he said, a lot of ways on the surface it worked out. You know, they're doing really well in life and they're successful.

You know, there's not too many issues in our relationship right now as I'm as adult man, but like I look back I'm like they needed to be sons before they were soldiers You know, so like that tension and Finding both I think in your life is good I think there is it's hard to find both in male relationships because some people we do just need almost like I hate to compartmentalize because so much of us were holistic beings but sometimes it's like I need this group or this get advice from this man for my career for

Cartwright Morris (47:04.912)
for

business advice, whatever, and I need this one to be more of a like, help me and my family and help me become a better father and husband and you know, or this one's more spiritual. You know, I think sometimes, I think in the Western world, we can completely silo and isolate those things too much, but then I think sometimes when it comes to finding mentors and finding other men to come alongside us, we need maybe sometimes to categorize it like that. So I think that maybe that is the missing piece.

And we're hoping at MEN of FORGE we do this more. We do this here at the Center for Executive Leadership. We have MEN's groups throughout the week. But yeah, so.

Anyway. Yeah. Find somebody to find somebody to struggle alongside with. Yeah. Someone. Yeah. Either someone who has been there before or someone that's going through as well that, that doesn't want to stay stuck in it. That's the, mean, I think that's the kind of the key part of it. It's like, that's not going to white will knuckle their way out of it or, but then also not going to sit there and wallow. It's like, how do I find somebody that's like, Hey, I want to acknowledge the problem with white knuckling is you're not acknowledging the, the pain point. So therefore you're not named.

and claiming the problem. You're just kind of putting blinders on like, you know, here it's you know evil, it's not happening, I'm just grinding away and then you look up and it's just life, it's just life right, just the way it is, you know. So that, I would say that's the issue with sometimes white-knuckling but like finding how to actually go, alright I'm gonna name it and claim it but I'm not walling it and actually find the solution and go figure it out.

Cartwright Morris (48:42.902)
You know, that can be long process. I mean, I just talked this morning about Galatians. From Paul's conversion to him writing his first letters, 14 years. mean, he spent three years off in the Arabian desert by himself, three years after his conversion.

just figuring all this out. You I used to kill all these people and now I'm one of them. And now want to lead them to Jesus, right? So there's just these things in life that it takes time, but there is a, if we're willing to step alongside people, know, one will rise, we have a lot more to give, but two, therefore we have more to receive. You know, those who give receive, right? It's our biblical principle.

So, but we gotta be willing to open ourself and that is tough for men to step across that. I mean, I remember when I first got into this line of work 11 years ago, it was a lot of first and second meetings with guys, lunches, coffees. You could feel the wall.

And that's where I started really focused on how I asked questions because like man you could just feel the pulling back the Squirming the hey, let's keep this surface level, dude I've never learned how to talk to a guy beyond just talking about football and yeah, you know in work like you know

Yeah, and it's interesting, even when I first moved back here and just from being back in Southern culture, was funny just even sitting at a golf tournament during a rain delay, listening to some guys and it's like, I'm just around like five or six monologues.

Cartwright Morris (50:30.167)
And it is, and it not that, you know, I love a good storyteller, but there is something too that is a little protective for some guys where like, I'm not really interested in finding out who you are and getting to know you better. I just want to talk. And then there's a level of like protection in that. That it's like, hey, how do I actually just let people in? actually, I might actually learn something if I actually ask people questions or actually just listen and not just wait for my turn to open my mouth.

You know, but there's like I was one of those people like just hey There's some there's some safety in just like waiting for my turn to just run my mouth Well in my experience, too, I certainly I remember having to get over that that hump of

like asking for help. Like it's like the first time you do it is really hard. But then every time after that, gets a lot easier. Yeah. A hundred percent. know, cause you have to say, usually I've such a positive experience, especially if you're doing it with somebody that really understands like you, know, you know, that first time asking for help, it's kind of like the damn breaks and you're like, Oh, yeah, that felt good. wasn't as insanely hard as I thought. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not crazy. Yeah. Um, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. You just, um, again, more same with

plugs you just I'll say it this way I just I don't know where I would be if I didn't first ask for that help you know maybe five six years ago yeah you know with you or with anybody really like I've got people that I get advice from and stuff like that and and

You can always feel kind of nervous when you're like, okay, I'm going to go to this person for advice and I'm going to ask for advice. like, like I would just leave people to be like, Hey, call them up, do whatever you want to do. Call a feed, launch, whatever. And then just say, Hey, can I ask you for some guidance on something and just see how they respond. And you'll see them light up. You know what I mean? Cause we love doing that. Like as men, we love giving other guys advice and helping mentor and doing these things. I I really do think that's like almost ingrained in us. Like if there's a younger guy coming to ask

Cartwright Morris (52:40.748)
me for help you kind of feel like man of course dude I'll do anything for you you know what I mean and and then on the other side that's the guy asking for the advice you see that response and you have that positive experience and that really equips you in the future to be like okay I'm kind of giving myself permission to do this more so I just encourage people just do it the first time yeah if you're having that don't expect it yeah talked about like sometimes we go into those things and we expect a certain result and therefore disappointed

in those testing periods, we can start raising our expectation when we build a relationship. There's no doubt about that, but the first time, like, no expectations.

Like you're just putting it on the table and seeing what happens. And you may not fix it right away. Yeah, or you could be... I mean, it could be mentoring you, okay, this may be a process or this may take a while for you to figure out. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I always come back to the CS Lewis line, like you find a friend for life when you are vulnerable and your response is, you too? Yeah, that's right. You know, I think that has been, in my life, water in a desert when that happens.

when you're like, oh, yeah, no big deal. Nah, that's about it. You're like, hey, I hear you, been there. That has been water desert for me in my life. And we all need that to some degree. No man is an island. That's the phrase that keeps coming up. That was a big thing probably.

probably our dad's generation up until even when I don't think Gen Z years are doing that as much, but I think there is that, that was that mindset. Like we gotta kind of be an island before we're anything else. You know, you're like, eh, not really. You know, you know, the men, the men that are standing high right now, they're standing on shoulders of lot of others, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Even if they don't want to admit it. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So

Cartwright Morris (54:43.726)
think that's it. You got anything else, Bo? No, that was really good. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good was actually, this was a live coaching session for me. Work harder. Do more. Do more. Work, work, work, work. You're having issues, do better next That's right. Do better. It's like, okay, my thought is do better at what? I don't know, figure it out. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. No, that doesn't work work.