The Seven Forging Moments All Men Experience Part 2 | Episode 155

In this episode, Cartwright and Bo explore the essential moments that shape resilient, faithful men grounded in Scripture. They share biblical examples and practical insights to help men understand how life's challenges—adversity, failure, responsibility, and purpose—can be opportunities for growth rather than setbacks.

Key Topics:

• The importance of men with "chests" — owning responsibility and integrity
• The biblical patterns of adversity and how God forms men in solitude and obscurity
• The vital role of community, relationships, and mentorship in shaping character
• How failure, when embraced rightly, develops endurance and wisdom
• The significance of purpose and calling, and the patience involved in fulfilling it
• The balance of effort and grace in understanding divine calling and identity

Timestamps:

00:00 - The biblical foundation for forging men with "chests"
02:18 - How Moses, Jesus, and others faced wilderness and solitude for growth
02:58 - The significance of ordinary work in shaping character (David as shepherd) 03:55 - Dealing with adversity and its role in building resilience (Joseph, David)
04:51 - The role of community and vulnerability in spiritual and personal growth
07:48 - The opportunity within pain and relationships to forge strength
11:00 - The power of intentional mentorship (Paul to Timothy) and peer accountability
17:14 - Embracing failure as a stepping stone to endurance and character development
24:02 - The importance of grace, especially in moments of failure (Peter’s denial)
27:56 - Handling responsibility and ownership (Joseph’s story)
32:23 - Purpose and calling—God’s divine design in our lives (Esther, David)
35:48 - The journey of calling, patience, and trusting God's timing (David's years in exile)
41:54 - The balance of purpose and identity rooted in God's love, not performance
45:17 - The danger of a performance mindset in pursuit of God's purpose
50:12 - Living daily in grace, not for acceptance, but from a place of identity in Christ
54:23 - The value of community, accountability, and shared growth in forging men
58:08 - Biblical examples reveal that even great men faced the same struggles
62:24 - Practical steps for viewing life's challenges through a biblical lens of growth

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This curriculum underscores that the challenges men face are opportunities to be refined and strengthened. When approached with biblical perspective and community, every adversity, failure, or responsibility becomes a pathway toward true manhood rooted in faith and grace.

Transcript

yeah, I'll kick it off. see.

Cartwright Morris (00:10.542)
All right. think another episode of Men Are Forged. Yeah. yeah. think we're doing part two today, right? Part two, the forging pillars. Yeah.

thought I wanted to kick this off, but now I'm kind of drawing blank. I'll try? Yeah, go for it, Beau. You me to take over, sub? Take over. Give me Morgan. All right.

We did the seven forging environments. This is kind of the curriculum that Cartwright's put together. That's really great because it has, it's basically like all the things that men inevitably will deal with at some point in their life. And so you kind of give really cool, they're called the seven pillars, all the things that we will face or going to face. And then you kind of define it.

and then you put scripture behind it, which I love. And it's really cool to see. My favorite part, selfishly, is the examples in the Bible that are there. Because when you look at it, you're like, wow, yeah, Joseph did deal with that.

You know, I haven't read Genesis in a while, but Moses dealt with that too, you know? So that's really, really cool. The first episode of this, we did the first three pillars. So today, I'd love to hit the last four if we time. And so the first three, just kind of as a quick recap, were, it was, I've got it right here. Wilderness.

Cartwright Morris (01:50.882)
The really cool examples of that obviously were Moses. We talked about Jesus being in the wilderness right after he got baptized for 40 days. That was awesome.

And the thesis of that really is that God often forms men away from comfort and away from crowds. Away from the ordinary. Away from the ordinary, which is great. Number two is hard work and obscurity. Many biblical figures that we found were formed in ordinary work that nobody noticed. Right? So you feel like your work is ordinary or whatever, you're not alone. A lot of guys do, a lot of guys did. So I really liked that one. David was a really good example.

of that being the shepherd in the field when Samuel came to Knight of King he wasn't even there he was out working doing ordinary work yeah so I love that number three is adversity man the football coach the football coach keyword first half we dealt with a lot of adversity we fumbled the ball so if you watch college football you'll hear that funny so we made a joke

about that. But I will say, I think I did end this episode with this, that it is very true though, when we deal with little adversities in life, it does prepare us for the big ones. Yeah, it's true. So even though in the first quarter is a diversity, Yeah, right. In high school football. Even though it's probably overused in the college football that we watch. Yeah, yeah. And we don't really, it's not the same adversity there that we're talking about here, totally different. And the great example of that is obviously Joseph.

That's the first one that pops in my mind that you have on here. Man, gets moves up a little bit. They get hit, knocked down, gets sold as a slave by his brothers. Right. Could have wallowed, could have been a victim. Wasn't made it better. Made it better. Right. Yep. And then David haunted by Saul. yeah. Right. Could have killed Saul a few times, decided not to. He rose above it.

Cartwright Morris (03:54.518)
That's like that's dealing with adversity really well. So you being hunted Yeah, by someone you were a close advisor to yeah your best friend's dad. Yeah, you know That's adversity. We're talking about we're not talking about throwing an incomplete pass on third down So and then to start this week with number four so we'll do four five six and seven number four is community and relationships and

Talk about that for a second if you don't mind. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, maybe I could even put this question as people. People are kind of the people in our lives, people around us. You know, I think originally I had brotherhood, but man, the opposite sex forges us. There's no doubt about that. There's, you know, things that I've become self-aware of have come from just some of my...

What's the best way to say it? My poor experience with the opposite sex. My failures in a sense. But yeah, I we need other people in our life and we've had an episode talking about what a good man really does. Great men inspire us, but good men hold up a mirror. When we're able to hold up a mirror for the other men in our life through our vulnerability, through our...

the truth we're willing to tell through wisdom for situation. We're willing to draw closer to other men and people in our lives that really does allow us to, hey, really confront things in our lives, and really expose blind spots and allow, humbles us in certain areas, right? You know, cause I'm sure there's men.

that we have in our lives and for willing to share who are probably, though we may be better in, you know, better in business, but they, that we can rely on them for more fatherly advice and teach us how to be a father or husband. You know, it's just, sometimes as men we look at, can silo like this is the, what I want advice and wisdom in solely. And we forget there's all these other areas and we need other men to kind of draft on in all these.

Cartwright Morris (06:11.887)
And so I would say community relationships, man, 100 % one of the more refining things that God provides in our life that, you know, because I think

you know, obviously the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. And I think to that, like, man, we are the hands and feet of Jesus to other people. And I think scripture comes alive when we're, I mean, this is why the center exists. When we have men in a room together talking about the Bible, we then can allow that word to come alive in us because we hear how other men are experiencing that scripture versus if we just sit there and study it or listen to sermons or read theological books like

It just would not, it could, but I don't think it would have the weight effect that you get within a relationship with other men and hearing them experience the word of God in a similar way. Yeah, so it almost feels like with all these pillars, I'm kind of seeing a theme where it's like, this is the way it can forge you because this is the way it can not hurt you, maybe hurt you, maybe...

There's an opportunity, like, so everybody will face it and you'll feel some sort of pain maybe with each one of these pillars, but then there's an equal and even better opportunity on how to rise and use it to be forged. So with the relationships piece you're talking about, that's number four on here, community and relationships. There's so many ways relationships can bring pain in some ways, right? And then there's so many relationships that...

that you can use as growth, as opportunity to grow, right? And learning from the wisdom of other people. Is that kind of right? that what thinking? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That there's something to...

Cartwright Morris (08:02.315)
Yeah, if we just isolate ourselves from others that we miss out a huge forming growth opportunity. And that comes with mess, dealing with anybody. People are broken, chaotic, unknowns. Like even some of people we don't like in our world, in our community, in our life, they can shape us because they confront things of like, man, why do I have so much disdain or anger towards that person?

know why it is, you know, it's just there's something too that God, it almost shows God's sense of humor when he says, you know, they will know that you are a follower, a disciple of me by the way you love one another. And he goes, you know, love each other as I have loved you. And then he puts us in a group of people who are all different, different personalities, backgrounds.

thought processes and says, love one another. It's like, that's really, that's not easy. And that's cool because in a little context, we were just learning about this in our Bible study. When he said that, it's John 13.35. You've got it right here. I believe when Jesus was saying that, I think it was at the Last Supper, wasn't it?

Yeah, the last few books of John are part of The Last Supper. can't remember if it starts at 13. 11 is Lazarus. Sorry, I'm trying to remember just without looking at it. at some point, yeah, you may be right. Yeah, so I think it was at The Last Supper, and I think that when he's kind of his last, almost like message instructions, things like that. And I think a lot of times,

you know, throughout his ministry, he was like, hey, love God, love me. And then finally, one of his last things he said was love one another, because if you love me, you will love one another. So that was super powerful. And just where he said it in his ministry, was literally right before he was about to get betrayed by Judas. He had that statement, which was a little bit new. I don't think he really gone there before. I could be wrong, but he

Cartwright Morris (10:19.181)
He was much more direct in that moment about hey love one another This is how people will know that you're my disciple because you love other people. Yeah, you know what mean? Yeah, I in that context I am a hundred percent with you I mean he may have said talked about the greatest commandment, right? You know love the Lord your God all your and then second just as much as the first love your neighbor as yourself Right, but that I don't think has the weight to hey Love one another's I've loved you

There's something to that, right? Yeah, to me it just seemed a little more direct and where he said it right before he was about to be tortured and die kind of... Well, mean in the greatest commandment he was was re-quoting a verse in Deuteronomy. So these a lot of those people in the room had known that. so but when he talks to the 12, there's something he's taking that to another level. I'm with you on that. Yeah, that's pretty cool. And then the I mean super famous prophet

27 17 as iron sharpens iron so one person sharpens another. That's the big one. That's in the football weight room. Sharp in each other tonight boys. But it's true. Yeah it is true. And then this is kind of my favorite part of this. I keep saying that but talk about the example of Paul mentoring Timothy. How did that look? What was that? Yeah.

It was wild. Some of it was up close and some of it was far away, right? Because he wrote them in two letters. And I think that's what's interesting with Titus.

thankfully meant to and Timothy is that they're you most Paul's letters is group written to churches or a group of people versus these were the individuals and there was something very Direct and intentional that he was trying to really walk shoulder and shoulder with him

Cartwright Morris (12:20.877)
I always say that about some, know, women are really great at face-to-face relationship, meaning like sitting down coffee and let's talk about life. Let's hit pause on everything and let me, how are you doing? Or man, we're better at shoulder to shoulder. Like let's go play some around the golf and then we'll get deep, right? Let's go get a couple beers in us and we'll loosen up a little bit. And I think that's...

I think the imagery that I have of Paul with Timothy of like Paul kind of realizing like, hey, the writing's on the wall.

They're gonna take my life. At the end of day, it's gonna be gotten and my life is his, so it doesn't matter. So I'm here to kind of walk beside you and kind of just point down the road. Hey, think about this. Be aware when leading this group of people. Think about that. And he starts out, I believe in 1 Timothy, it's like, yeah.

The spirit of God is not of fear and timidity. It's of being of power, love, and a sound mind. Like that's the spirit that's been given to you. don't listen to when fear starts talking, that ain't of God. know, and so he kind of, that's the context. He kind of frames their relationship, frames his directives and how to lead people. So I think that's a big part of like, hey, we need other men to shape us as men.

men, better men, but then also like heighten the call in our lives and lead us to leadership. Really shape us in like, hey, you know, it's really wild being, you know, I've been part of, you know, some of them call mastermind groups or peer groups of business owners. It really is fascinating when you start sharing your issues within a business or

Cartwright Morris (14:13.997)
any organization leadership wise and other men could go, all right, well, have you thought about this? Thought about that? Thought about that? You know?

you know, are you doing about this? Are you thinking this? You know, like it is, it's pretty fascinating just like how much wisdom can be gathered in a room where we're willing to have some level of vulnerability to allow other men to speak in our lives, to sharpen us as iron sharpens iron, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. That's what you're looking for with the Paul and Tim. Yeah, no, that's perfect. I wasn't sure how that kind of, how that went down. Yeah, that's cool. I like the

Because I think there's multiple layers too to think about. Sorry, Beau, if you had a thought. But Paul and Timothy is the age gap, right? We need older men in our lives to help us to avoid maybe the potholes we look up to.

And then the next level of peer-to-peer, right? But then also we need men that were, you know, speaking into a guiding, right? I think there's a three levels to it. That's totally true. I think that's a little underrated, honestly. Like, when you start mentoring guys below you, the growth you get in yourself is And I think also, how much you have to give. You really realize, like, man, people have given, when someone has spoken into my life and I have been

pursuing the good and obviously out of my imperfection continued to pursue becoming better growing

Cartwright Morris (15:49.144)
there was a lot put in me. we only have, we can only give what we have, right? So therefore, and then you get around somebody, it's like, wow, there's more in there than I thought. Yeah. Yeah. And then when you start saying stuff out loud to whoever that person is, it kind of like blooms again inside of you in a way, you know what I mean? It's like, and then this is probably in good theology, but then when you give advice like that and then you face something similar, you're like, well, better, you know, better do this, right?

I'm being watched which is you know powerful in a way I think. And I think we all want to be men of integrity right? Yeah. So saying what I mean, meaning what I say. Yeah exactly. I love that. Here's a huge one. Number five is failure. Oh man yeah. Talk about that. It's a little bit of a you could probably say it's a sub of adversity but I think there's something about failure.

Like I've said it before and I'll probably say it a hundred times. Like, man, you can look throughout history. I look at any man successful I've ever been around is like, they all are marked by one thing is like they learned how to.

fall or fail forward, you know? It's like, there's no avoidance of this thing of failure. And when some context, and people sometimes don't even like the word, you didn't really fail. like, yeah, we all kind of got to fail some level to own that failure because I learned something from it. It's the ones that don't do well failure, trying to avoid it or have a very un-nuant singular view about it.

You know, I think the immature, the boy way to look at it is when you fail, you get in trouble and you go, well, I'm just not going to do that again. It's like, no, you need to learn how to swing and miss. know, I think, yeah, there's something, speaking of baseball, there is that analogy where a Hall of Famer fails two out of three times when they go to the plate. You know, that analogy in life, it's like, hey, going back to that last episode, there's

Cartwright Morris (17:57.396)
something to when they talk about it's in throughout especially the New Testament throughout the Bible but Paul talked about it in Romans 5 when we face affliction, adversity, tribulations some translations say that produces endurance. There's something about the endurance piece that we miss that truly develops character and we're willing to allow the failure to hit us we then can learn from it and endurance produces character. If you want to be a man

character, you got to deal with failure being a big one because that's what produces endurance. continue to, you know, it's like, I mean, what's the Winston Churchill quote? know, success is not final and failure is not, or failure is not final and success is not the end or something. Anyway, just learning to know that like, hey, I failed here, but it's not the end. It's not over. Some of y'all are like probably listening going like, no, this is the Winston Churchill quote.

I know it's a good one. It's a good one. I missed it. I butchered it, but you get what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Oh.

Cartwright Morris (19:06.903)
computer here. We have a caller. Yeah, we have a caller. Hi, caller. Would you like to talk today? Where are you? Where are you coming from?

I love that. That's perfect. mean, gosh, there's no shortage of examples of failure in Scripture. my God. It's everywhere. That is what's wild as I sometimes... Except for Jesus. Right, of course.

Yeah, there's wild what we think about in the scriptures. is, maybe too many of us who grew up in the South or Bible culture, Christianity is, we read, the Sunday School.

know, cartoon version of all of them. And we kind of gloss over it's like, man, those guys all bombed big time. And despite all of that, God still promoted them. God still blessed them. You know, it's just through, you know, and you see, and there's been like really bad fruit from some of their choices they made. Like David as a father really failed as a father. yeah. A hundred percent. And you saw the fruit of the division of kingdoms, the...

led to Solomon and some of his ailments that led to the ultimate division of the kingdom. But you see, know, it's just it is just fascinating that like man and God's still

Cartwright Morris (20:37.579)
You know, you think about Bathsheba, right? I all these failures still, like, do we allow them to shape us and to cause moments of true inflection points? Or do we just kind of let it, it is what it is. We just kind of just don't, I don't want to touch it, don't look at it, I don't want to. And the more, yeah, I mean, being in this space has led me to like,

Yeah, there is something about a man, the less accounts a man, when he experiences failure and tries to score him away from it. Yeah. Tries to go, yeah, but. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I was just about to say. I was going to say the...

there's the failure, there's two sides to me, it seems like with failure. One side is, we'll let it define you and then just stop doing anything. The other one is, it didn't happen. You know what I mean? And power through. So both sides of that kind of spectrum are bad. This is really powerful. Cartwright's got Luke 22.

verse 61 through 62 and it's the Lord turned and looked straight at Peter and Peter went outside and wept bitterly. Obviously that's talking about you know Jesus told Peter that hey you're gonna deny me three times. Peter didn't believe it. Peter inevitably denies him three times and after the third time Jesus looked straight at Peter and

and Peter obviously had to deal with that. then Peter became the foundation of the church. mean that's how Jesus said, I'm going to be the rock. Another kind of cool little tidbit that we've learned is Luke, when he wrote the Gospel Luke, he had actually connected with Peter.

Cartwright Morris (22:26.125)
in Antioch, believe, some years later. I want to say like 30 years later. So this scripture, it's not like an account of Luke, you know, having witnessed that or anything or anybody else have witnessed that. That's Peter saying, I remember Jesus turned and looked at me right in that moment.

And he's talking about that some 30 years later, whenever Luke was written. It's somewhere in 60 AD or something like that. I'm sure he didn't remember that. yeah, right. mean, so that's not, that is, that's Peter telling you as soon as I did it, he looked at me. You know what I mean? And, and, that's, that's pretty powerful. But then Peter went and, you know, didn't allow to find them. And, then even when,

When Jesus, when he rose, he said, hey, go tell the disciples and Peter. He singled out Peter, hey, go get Peter and make sure he knows he's good. You know what mean? I love that. His failure did not end our relationship. And that's the thing sometimes we as men gotta look at going back to the last one. There's a level of like...

Hey, yeah, this, yeah, this does not end anything. It's not fatal. Yeah, know, success is not final and failure is not fatal, right? That's the point. But yeah, there's something too of like, we, and so therefore I think even when someone fit who's around us fails us or fails, understanding the power of God's grace to not let them off the hook, but to still be, choose relationship to be in relationship with them.

having the discernment of like yeah they especially when they're willing to own it hey I can come alongside them and

Cartwright Morris (24:12.971)
help them learn from this. Versus most of us who experienced failure, that meant a severing of the relationship. Yeah. A disappointment. you know, there was a, you moved into the red of the relationship versus like, Hey, no, this doesn't end anything. And, this kind of puts a really cool bow on that. Gosh, we could have a couple episodes on failure, right?

I could sit here and talk to everybody about my failures for four hours. Should that be a special podcast? No, this is a, I believe this is a Cartwright quote. Maybe you stole it from somebody, but failure is often the breaking point of pride, which is true. And the beginning of wisdom. So don't miss that opportunity. You know I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Don't miss that opportunity. Yeah. You know what I mean? This is, um,

If you've failed and I inevitably have and will, don't miss that opportunity anymore. See how you can evolve, see how you can gain more wisdom from that. God, I love that one. That might be my favorite so far. Not that we have favorites. Right. And there's, put that Theodore, and of course everybody loves that Theodore Roosevelt quote. The credit belongs to the man in the arena.

who errs and who fails short again and again, right? I mean, there's obviously more to that quote. It's a great, I'm sure we've had, you people have made posters about that quote, but it is, that quote in some of my mid-twenties where I really felt defined by my failure, I needed that quote because you realize, okay, it's doing, it's the pursuing, it's the work, the pain, the trying and failing is what matters.

That's what gives me strength, hope, endurance. It's not the, you know, if I always succeed in everything I did, what kind of man would it be? Right. Tom Brady has that documentary, Man in the Arena, doesn't he? Yeah. I remember he used to always, he loved that quote. want to say. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. I, some people like you think of the Tom Brady's or the Michael Jordan's like any bit of criticism or failure, just put that.

Cartwright Morris (26:32.163)
it was like almost fuel to them. There was always, I think that's with anything we will always admire about those types of athletes. It was like, you know. And it may lead to pride in other areas of life, but there was something really, really powerful about when we, now I think that's at end of the day as a kid, you admire the athlete. know? Yeah. Yeah. I know I think of Tom Brady every time.

I see or hear that quote, the man in the arena. Did he talk about that a lot or something? feel like maybe he did. don't know. Well, dude, he was talking, he was always had the scrutiny even, you know, when he was at Michigan to the draft. He was kind of more doubted than he like failed and came back from it. He was just always kind of doubted. It was a little bit different. Right. Yeah. Yeah, maybe you're right. Cool. I love that one. The next one is responsibility.

The scripture you have for that is Genesis 41, 41. So we're way in the Old Testament here. hear about put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt. guess he's talking to... Oh, he's talking to Joseph there. was going say Moses. moves the prisoner to a national leader, the number two in command. Okay. Talk about the responsibility. Well, think that, well, every bit, you know, from the time he was sold into slavery...

wherever he was and we talked about this last episode, he made wherever he was better, even when he was in prison, right? There was a, he took responsibility some in those moments, you know? I do like the Jordan Peterson quote, like pick up your burden. There's something to, and I take,

I almost want to say even more than, I mean, guess, you know, the definition of responsibility is responding to your ability, but there's a level of ownership to it of like, hey, this is mine to own, to be responsible for, so therefore I'll care for it. And I think as a young man, even in my twenties, was, I did the, was through failure, you realize like,

Cartwright Morris (28:42.065)
I was trying not to take responsibility for things because when I took responsibility, that meant I was the one to blame for it. So we deflect, we move on. But no, in your 20s, it's very important that you take responsibility for something. I own this, whether it's good or bad is the result. How do I take responsibility for that? And that's a little bit going back to failure, talking about men that just kind of like, there's a wave of

failure coming at them and they just kind of try to squirm out of it, make excuses. But I think there's something too, man, the stuff that I've learned when I've like, no, this is what I am in charge of and I put in my care and whether it is or not, but I'm going to choose to be that guy and I'll be a one to take the blame because I think a mark of every great leader is the one who's willing to take blame for something, whether it was their fault or not.

how to do that, up that burden. It's kind of a mix, responsibility is just, yeah, it is a little mix of hard work too, right? It's a little sub off that. Another theater quote, never throughout history has a man lived a life of ease and left a name worth remembering.

Yep, and the C.S. Lewis quote is, make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. Men with chests. I would say at Men are Forged, that's what I end of day, I'm trying to create. Men with chests, man. It's like, you walk in room like, hey, I will own what I need to own. I'll take responsibility. I'll do what I need to do. I will be faithful what I've given. Because those who are faithful with a little can be responsible, can be

responsible for much. You know, it's like there's something about that. Like when I'm faithful to a little thing, I'm taking responsibility for this, what has been given to me, know, stewardship, faithfulness, there's something about that. And what a temptation we deal with as guys in our twenties and thirties, like, well, I'll get it right when I, when I've got this. You know what I mean? Um, well, I'll, once I'm, when I'm making this salary, I'll

Cartwright Morris (30:58.923)
I'll make sure and do this or that or, you know.

Be generous. stop drinking so much when I start having kids. Yeah. Stuff like that. You know. Yeah. Or I'll start going to church and being a better man when I grow up. That's speaking to me for sure. Yeah. So men with chest. So it's chest day. All right. Give me 20. That's the title of this episode. Chest day. Chest day. It's funny because I don't work out. All right.

That's why it's funny. It wouldn't be funny if I actually did work out, you know? Anyway, and then number seven is purpose and calling. I love this. 414. The reason why this is last. Who knows but that you have come to your royal position for such a time as this. Yeah, was a calling of Esther.

It's interesting that Bible, that's another Old Testament, which is that entire book, it doesn't have the name of God in it whole time. Did know that? No. That's interesting. Wow. But yeah, specific calling purpose that I think originally thinking through this is like, man, when there's something, when we start really grasping our faith in God, the things that understanding it has, there's a...

utility seems too cheap of a word, but there's something that bridges into, right, okay, now that I'm understanding more who God is, who am I, what the scripture says about God and his relationship with us, that should lead to like, all right, there's something he's put me here on earth for.

Cartwright Morris (32:41.671)
All those six things before this is shaping ultimately that purpose. And a lot of times that's when the work really starts, right? The forming of when I, all right, God, you've called me to this. What does that look like? What does that mean? How is that manifested? Who have you called me to? You know, what?

You know, what is that? Like, you know, where have you called me to? Is that a city? Is that a place? Is that home life? Whatever. You know, there's something too when we, it gives us more chest, even, when it was like, all right, I know what this is, called me to, whether it's in the business world, family, community, church, whatever, mission field. Yeah, it kind of...

It gives pain a purpose.

Calling gives pain a purpose in lot of know, to purpose gives pain a good purpose. It gives fuel to what we're trying to really pursue. Yeah, because when you go down this journey of, I'm not sure that, maybe people do understand their purpose pretty quickly, but I'm not convinced that like, God is it more interested in like the journey of finding out our purpose in a way? Yeah. You know? yeah, 100%. Because I think if the expectation

is like, God, tell me what exactly you want me to do here. And maybe it's just been my experience, I don't know. It's probably maybe different from Christians everywhere. But I'm not sure that the values and knowing the answer to that right away, think maybe it's the constant search for it. It's like we talked in the last episode, like moving forward so that God can steer you in a way. I think there's so much value in that.

Cartwright Morris (34:33.169)
You know what saying? It's like, shape me, form me as we go. And maybe there is a very clear purpose. I'm not saying that you don't find out your purpose until you're in your 60s, until you're shaped. I'm just saying like...

I guess don't use it as disqualifier if you're in your 20s and 30s and you're not sure what it is. Don't keep moving forward, I guess. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Well, think if I take it back to Scripture, you think about David and his story. He was probably in his teens when he's anointed. He's anointed king. He's by the prophet Solomon. Samuel, sorry. He, not too long after, has the triumphant moment, the victory of killing Goliath.

Did that happen after that? Yeah, right. Yeah, not too long after. So, and then after that, what happens? Does he become king immediately? He's like, no. He actually for many years, I think, I can't, I want to say it was 16. was many years. Like basically one, he finds the mighty men and he trains them up and becomes a leader.

Cartwright Morris (35:47.307)
Bethany, we can probably delete this out.

Cartwright Morris (35:55.501)
Cartwright Morris (36:15.981)
company.

disconnect that to do that well. But yeah, so then he goes basically the rest of his life into the wilderness, a big chunk of his life into the wilderness being hunted. But there was something to God training him as a leader to lead other men to deal with adversity, to deal with struggle. So he has the calling and then he steps into his purpose as king when he's 40. So teenager calling, so 20 plus years, right?

become crowned king until he's 40 years old. Right? So there's, to your point, I think there is something too of like, hey, I know something's been put on my life. It's like, but sometimes there's a working about of all the six other things we talk about that is forming more of a stepping into that. know, cause I think David in that moment, okay, he feels a level of responsibility for the nation of Israel.

and also like a mantle leadership. Okay. Do I wait until I get to the palace for that or do I take ownership of that now? What does that look like? You know, like interesting. So, so I don't know. Yeah, that's cool. I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. There's kind of some nuance there. I guess, I guess I'm kind of what's cool about this is that

learning about this in real time. guess with the purpose thing it is, well I guess here's what I'm trying to do that never works. What I'm trying to do is like put steps. You know what mean? I'm trying to like, well here's the order of it. That's maybe where my mind goes and God doesn't live, he lives outside of time. So like everybody's, I to constantly remind myself of that. It's like you know want to live in like, alright you find your purpose.

Cartwright Morris (38:08.961)
Then you go through process, then you do the thing you're called to do. You know what mean? And some of that may be true, but I think I live too hard in that realm of like, this is what happens next. You know I mean? And that's just not how it works. And because I'm wired that way, there's probably...

you know, there's a lot of value in getting out of that in a way, you know, again, the struggle of a 34 year old Christian trying to figure out, know, how this works and kind of, you know, what the purpose is. it's like you said, there's nuance to it. Not that there's not value to put steps to it, to put a plan to it. But you're right. There needs to be pivoting along the way. With a loose grip. Yeah. Sometimes we kind of like

It's the falling in love or the holding on to God's gifts and God's hand without looking at the face.

holding on to him more than the actual gift. Right? It's like, okay, God may have given us a plan or a direction, but am I willing to even to use Abraham as an example? Right? You've granted... You've given me this calling to be a great nation, a father to many.

but you're asking me to sacrifice my son, my one bloodline, the one person that you gave me to, it's like, God basically saying, are you willing to sacrifice this for me? To keep the relationship, or not keep the relationship, but to like, is this more important to you than the actual purpose and calling? And so that's what's interesting, nuanced in the whole, it's like, you the verse, you prepare the horses for battle, but victory is the Lord.

Cartwright Morris (40:05.183)
Yeah, there's work that needs to be done. I can put steps, I could create a plan, I can do this, but at end of the day, I'm not holding on to this to being my salvation. Yeah, because what that does, think you're right. There's value in that, but the risk with that that I've learned is that when you miss a step or it doesn't hit your timeline, then you're like, well, the whole thing's shot. You know what I mean? And so there's value, but then this was dumb. Try something else. Yeah, I mean, for real. I've that plenty of times. 100%. Yeah.

You like to put order to things but then if it's just your order and it's not what God then you can be like then it's easy to be like well this didn't work. Dude like yeah you know what I'm saying? little bit into my life is a constant prayer I have. I have to remind myself and I don't always I sometimes wallow in like God did did I miss something along the way did I was this was this step wasted you know.

putting money into something, putting time and energy into something, and it doesn't produce the fruit that you hoped. And I'm like, was that wasted? And the prayer of, God, I know you don't waste anything. You're using it for something bigger. You were still with me in that, you know? And so, yeah, that's the kind of that thought process that as humans sometimes we miss, because you're right, we don't live outside of time. We are constantly absorbed to the present. We're constantly...

our failures sometimes become ghosts in a way that talk to us and they kind of remind us sometimes in a good way that we're broken and flawed and sometimes in a way that tries to hold us back to continue to try to continue to pursue to continue to try to build something and pursue our calling and purpose. One little key caveat I always like to say the purpose is I'm trying not to be too nerdy because I heard this on a show recently.

I'm aware

Cartwright Morris (42:03.027)
say what it is but there was something to like a character who was like the villain it was like I don't his you know his name was like conquest or something he goes I don't even get an identity only get a purpose meaning his job was to be a conquest to take over planets and stuff like that so I don't get too nerdy with you on that but there's something that like triggered me my brain of like our purpose can only come out of our identity they can't be separate when we pursue solely purpose we miss that

Like, man, I'm a child of God.

My identity can't live and die off of my purpose. It has to come out of it. And so when I know I'm grounded, we've talked about rest in here, like rest, the foundation is like I'm His. You know, that's what matters to me whether my purpose or calling comes to fruition. Because I think some Christians do believe that I'm not living out my calling and purpose, I'm not really a Christian. It's like, no. Or, you know, it's like, no, at end of the day, I'm in relationship with Him. That's what matters. That's what's going to with

Purpose can be translated in my head as a job. Yeah. You know what mean? When really it stems from relationship. Yeah, yeah. Which is totally different because...

Like, it, yeah, I mean, like in every other aspect of our lives, we do have steps in an order to things. So like, I know I'm recording this podcast with you. I know I have a meeting at one. I know I have a meeting at three. And then I have in my mind, you know, I'll probably be able to pick up Eli from daycare about four, four thirty. That's just how my, and so to live inside this relationship with God and really none of it works that way is a, it's,

Cartwright Morris (43:48.256)
It's kind of mind boggling, but it also brings peace because it's not like...

It's getting out of the performance mindset. It's getting the purpose away from the performance mindset. That's what's tough for me. You know what mean? Because I'm constantly in that, if I don't start my day with stripping myself with my performance, Ephesians 2, 8, you know what I mean? My performance is not tied to my relationship with God. He has no, there's value probably in some areas of it, but it's not...

I'm working from acceptance, not for acceptance. Like that's my daily, hourly thing that I have to constantly feed myself so that I don't easily slip into, because I will. Well, hold on, okay, my purpose here, okay, the Bible talks about purpose. All right, what's that job?

What's the project for that? Okay, where are we on that? Are we being efficient enough? You know what mean? It's, are we, you know, if my purpose is, whatever, I don't, I don't know. Like it could be anything for all kinds of, it's all different for everybody, but like it's easily.

It's easily perverted into the performance mindset as well. Does that make sense? At least to me. It's like, okay, if my purpose is this, then am I doing it at maximum efficiency? You know what mean? Because that's how the other 95 % of our day and time is spent doing. I'm doing a project right now with our clinic on like...

Cartwright Morris (45:26.055)
are we maximizing our time with the patients that come in our clinic? You know what mean? Like where are we wasting time? Where are the things? Where are the data points? What are the KPIs we're tracking? And then from those KPIs, which ones are not at the threshold we want them to be at? I mean, it's where my mind is all the time. And so to shift into...

this purpose concept within Christianity and with Jesus, it just doesn't, it's not the same. It's just totally different side. It's just your brain has to, just has to like view it a completely different way. And that's kind of tough. And it takes a daily reminder. You know what I mean? It has to be daily. But one thing I have learned is that,

The daily reminder, maybe this is getting away from it a little bit, but the daily reminder, you've taught me this, the daily reminder is okay. I don't wake up on Monday and do it and then get frustrated with myself on Tuesday when I slip right back into it where I'm thinking, what can I do to perform for Jesus today so that he loves me? I mean, you know what mean? that's, I mean, because that really is with every other aspect of our life, especially with work, it's...

kind of is that way. Yeah, and there's some, I think there's some utility in that because we've, in a lot of ways, we've created a world that's motivated by that. Yeah. And not necessarily just, you know, that Jesus would love me, but that I will be loved, accepted, valued by people because there's a fear that if I don't do it, it won't happen. Yeah, exactly. And I want Because that's how work is. That's how work is. Because if we don't, I'll use Medplex again as an example, if we don't hit this percentage,

of this, whatever KPI we're looking at, of no-show rate. So every clinic, we have a no-show rate. And it's very simple. How many of the appointments you set, how many of the patients are showing up? Well, if you hit below a certain percentage, it affects your revenue, because they're not there and you can't charge for the visit.

Cartwright Morris (47:32.544)
you're constantly in that kind of thinking. So to me, I'm so easily slipped into, and this is what's kind of sparking this with about purpose, with this purpose, the purpose that I have on being here, am I hitting the percentage to make sure I get the most out of it? Yeah. You know I mean? And it doesn't work that way. Yeah. And that's where, I mean, the thought exercise of like,

Okay, so the result is therefore we do we make more money or Bo feels more successful therefore Bo is more loved? that is that so that's where we like the flawed brokenness of man goes there. Yep.

where I think, and I think I've talked about this before, science has pointed this more and more in studies they've shown that the most highly efficient contributing members of society are on a long longevity term basis that end up raising more more quality people, people that come from a home where they knew they were loved.

where they didn't have to work for it. I want to say it was an episode where Cam Haynes talked about this, the famous hunter who's friends with Joe Rogan. He goes, yeah, I mean, I raised soldiers and you they turned out all right. They're good contribute. But the end of day, like I needed to not be their, you know, their drill sergeant. needed to be their dad.

But it was always every day, like waking up at five, was training them in high school, like early days, like you gotta get up and do this and this and this this and it's like, and you wonder what's the long-term fruit of a young man becoming a man, does he constantly have that?

Cartwright Morris (49:22.061)
trigger in them is like, not doing enough. I'm not doing enough. I'm not doing enough. I take a day off or I spend time just sitting with my wife and kids. Am I, oh, oh no, I'm failing because I'm not working out or getting stuff done or right. I think it's that mindset when it's like the most long-term is when people come from a home where they knew they had the foundation of being loved. And the even deeper part of that is what we see throughout scripture that we constantly miss is like, this is

why he died. If you have to work for his love, then he died for nothing.

I mean that's Colossians 2.21, and it's all for nothing. If the obedience to the law is what leads to justification, Christ died for nothing. It's like, no, like if anything he said on the cross was over my dead body, it had a complete, for God so loved the world.

Like we quote it all the time but we miss it. It's like out of that is what happened. And it's like, man, how do we preach the gospel to ourselves daily? Because at the end of the day, that is what's going to make us most effective, most efficient, most productive in our life is when we go, hey, I ain't doing this because I need to get loved. I'm doing this because I am loved. And therefore, I've been given so much, I'm going to go give more. Anyway, I don't know.

Preach myself of For me it's a daily reminder. Yeah, I think we all do, bro. I mean, it's like...

Cartwright Morris (50:55.691)
It's a daily reminder. I think that, and that's interesting about the home thing because I'm certainly that way, but I certainly came from a home that I never questioned my acceptance, regardless of my performance. And so that's interesting because maybe I'm just wired that way. Yeah. I think there's a level of your personality for sure. Because that's really interesting because I could totally see that. you're constantly

having to perform at home. Thankfully, that wasn't really my experience, but I could totally see how that would be the case. If you have a high performing parents, you could easily have that be how you view everything, including your walk with Jesus. Yeah, that's really interesting. That's really interesting.

If you have to work or you have to perform, then he died for nothing. Yeah. You know? Yeah. To stay in relationship with him, And let that sit for a second. I mean, it's true.

And you just kind of feel the scales falling off a little bit on like, gosh, okay, wow. This really has nothing, I mean, probably not the best way to say it, but this has nothing to do with me and how I perform and what I do today. He's already done it all. He's already done it all. mean, what other, God, how thankful. mean, gosh.

That's unbelievable. Yeah, but it's been a 2,000 years struggle. That's all trying to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why Paul was writing the Galatians because they were struggling with that. Do I need, I don't need just to follow Jesus. I also need to follow the works of the law. And then.

Cartwright Morris (52:45.581)
we're still seeing denominations coming out of even Christianity, right? Whether that's like a part of the subconscious of the leaders or of the people or it's actually outwardly overt of like, yeah, we're to follow Jesus and He died for us, but...

you gotta do this, this, or this. It feels like over time, humans want to build structure and order to things. And I think that's good, but then over a certain amount of time, that turns into control. You can kind of see it on a timeline. It probably starts out like, hey, this is how we do church.

Here's the order of it, here's how that, and then you add hundreds of years and it's like, gosh, how'd we get here? To where you have to do this in order to be accepted or whatever the rituals are. I'm not really familiar. to a Greek Orthodox wedding one time.

And they, I mean, it was an hour long ceremony. They're doing this, seven laps around that, that, that. And you're like, at one point this was meaningful. Like, cause at the end of the day, they were doing the rituals and traditions and the structure was all pointing to what we're talking about. It was meant to remind us of that.

What he did for us and what you know became what we have to do what we have to do Yeah, it flipped in that nuts. Yeah, because that's where I mean that's where Paul talks about the letter kills the spirit gives life It's like when we try to go by the letter and what it's like what we think it says and what we can control and we We miss it. Yeah, but when we like no This is is because I'm in relationship with God and his spirit is within us and he is making manifest to us by us Being here and

Cartwright Morris (54:31.823)
to do this stuff out of our freedom. know, but whatever. Man, we just went off the rails a little bit, but I think it was good one. It a good one. Yeah, a real time counseling session. And it was free. I'll take it. No, I'm just kidding. Man, this is awesome. Cartwright never asked me to do this. I think this...

This is a curriculum that you can go through with Cartwright, with the group, and hopefully you see the value in it. It's a course to teach you and make you aware of all the things that you're inevitably gonna deal with as a man to where you don't really have to figure it out on your own. It really gives you great context and understanding of...

when you deal with these things, here's the opportunity. Here's the way that, with all these things, with these seven pillars, I kind of view it as like, in each one of these things, you have an opportunity to allow it to hurt you, and allow it to live there and continue to hurt you, or you have an opportunity to rise up and view it a different way.

And I think this whole curriculum, at least from what I could see, is Car Ride does an amazing job of giving you a perspective of viewing it a healthy way. So it's not, hey, this is how you avoid these things. It's, hey, this is what God may be teaching you, and here's how you can view it a different way. And when you view it different way, you experience such amazing growth. From my experience,

I couldn't have done that on my own. You know what mean? Like had I not, in my experience is I came to Cartwright and Cartwright helped me through these things. And so I do have a perspective, I screw up every day, but I do have the perspective of the correct way to view things so that I can grow.

Cartwright Morris (56:45.963)
But I would have never been able to do that had I just done it or tried to do it on my own, if that makes sense. You gotta have a guide. You gotta have that community that we talked about. So I would just really encourage everybody, if this is kind of resounding for you, which I know it is if you're our age and you're to, you know, and you're following Jesus.

come do this curriculum. Yeah, because I think what ends up happening is one, when we're in the midst of one of these things, especially failure, adversity or.

Responsibility we think we're the only ones struggling with it. Therefore keep your mouth shut and just do it. Yep, just grid it out but sometimes when we voice it there's a level of I want to say in that quote there was a quote I think even having this curriculum CS Lewis it you know when you make a friend is when you find somebody goes Oh me too. It's like there's a disarming of that when we get with other men in our either group setting and there's a level of just like oh man I don't

have to perform here or you get in a one-on-one setting with a mentor or a leader or another friend and just going yeah been there man I feel you yeah dad another layer on that you see that man the man after God's own heart King David dealt with mm-hmm all these things yeah pretty much yeah and it's all in the Bible and like these great men and women Esther too yeah like

they weren't so unique that they didn't deal with these things. You know what mean? And so when you're like, were God's anointed. Yeah, like again, we kind of say this in a laughing way a lot of times on the podcast, but like we ain't special. No, Whatever problems you're dealing with, you ain't special. Sorry. I hate to say it. And when you voice it, it allows you to disarm that go, man, I'm not the only one, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think there is something, I think I said this last episode, it's like we doing make reflecting on this

Cartwright Morris (58:47.419)
One should help prepare you for those to come or prepare or help you in the midst of something. But ultimately, I really think it's meant to it's shaping and refining you as you reflect back and realize you've already been through a lot of this. Even somebody who's 25 who people say, oh, you hadn't lived yet. It's like, no, you've been through some stuff. You've been through some of their stuff. I reflect back even from high school, junior high pain points and failures. And you go, oh man, it was I was doing it out of this.

or I was believing in something false or I was living, was, you know, whatever, insecure. And you know, you can, I had poor mindsets. You can literally even go back that far sometimes when we reflect back and go, I have been through failure, adversity, hard work, whatever. So. And then, and then the, what you mentioned before, the fulfillment you get out of being able to mentor somebody through theirs. know, I mean, that's. Well, I think this should get real, reflecting on this should give you a platform to do that.

Yeah, it's the ones that are not willing to actually reflect like oh, yeah, I've had a perfect life. Nothing wrong has happened to me Okay, well you probably had a pretty boring life then and you don't have a platform to speak anybody else's so stop don't give advice to them Yeah, it is wild there are men out there I'm trying to think the quote that I

I say all the time, it's like, yeah, yeah. We generally, the people that try to tell us all the advice that are the ones who had very little experience. The ones with a lot of experience generally hold it very close and almost treasure the wisdom they gained from that experience. But when they share it, it carries so much weight. Yeah. And you can feel that on people. Yeah. you feel it when they just start talking. And I've been that person before. Where it's just like, I'm filling the room with air, but I actually have not, there's not a lot of experience to back it up.

So yeah, cool. That's great. Good sweet. Thank y'all for listening