The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
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Representation is important, toward the end of our conversation Al tells a time when an executive once said to him: “If I could ask you a favor, next time you’re in an event like this and you come across someone who looks like you did at the beginning of this event, please do what you can to make them feel like they belong.”
We also dig into self-awareness, internal and external and how it impacts the way we interact with the world around us.
Al Dea
Better Work Labs
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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00:00:09 Justin
Welcome to the Creating belonging podcast today, my guest is Al Dea.
00:00:15 Justin
He is the CEO and founder of Betterwork Labs.
00:00:20 Justin
And actually just let Al introduce himself.
00:00:24 Al
Well, great.
00:00:25 Al
Well, Justin, thank you so much for for having me here.
00:00:27 Al
As you said, my name is Al Dea.
00:00:29 Al
I'm the founder of better collabs.
00:00:30 Al
I'm a leadership development consultant, and I work with companies and my job is to help smart people become people smart and really equipping their managers and leaders with the human skills they need to create.
00:00:45 Al
Great companies that allow their people to thrive.
00:00:49 Justin
Well, I'm glad to have you on the podcast, AL.
00:00:53 Justin
And let's go ahead and dive right in.
00:00:55 Justin
You know, we talked about, you know, the focus of this podcast, really around the creating belonging model.
00:01:00 Justin
We've kind of talked about that you've explored a bit and I understand that you've done a bit of research on self-awareness and kind of.
00:01:11 Justin
Kind of teeing that up in that, you know, in the book we talk about belonging being at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance and self-awareness is a really big part of authenticity. So I'm curious, I'd love to hear from you just your perspective on self-awareness.
00:01:31 Justin
Related to authenticity in the bigger picture of creating belonging.
00:01:36 Al
Yeah. So some of the research I've done draws from some of the work from Doctor Tasha Urick, who has written a book about self-awareness and done a ton of research on this topic of self-awareness and some of her research has proven from some of the studies she she's done that, ironically enough, while about 95% of us like to think that we're self aware.
00:01:57 Al
Only about 15% of us are actually self.
00:02:00 Al
Aware and it kind of like is that how 80% of people think they're above average drivers, right? That kind of idea where we all want to think that we're self aware that we know ourselves and that we're very attuned with ourselves, but in reality less of us actually are.
00:02:16 Al
And I think what that ultimately comes down to is that as you would to some of the research shows that there's there's essentially two types of self-awareness.
00:02:23 Al
The first is this kind of internal self-awareness, right? And I think this really hones in on some of the the work that you talk about at that intersection of authenticity and and and belonging in the sense of knowing yourself, knowing your who you are, your strengths, your aspirations.
00:02:43 Al
What you feel you need anything like that? And that is one part of it. The other component of self-awareness is this idea of external self-awareness in terms of.
00:02:54 Al
All of those things, but with how the external world sees us, right, and the idea here is that none of us live in a vacuum.
00:03:01 Al
We all exist in a larger, broader system.
00:03:04 Al
You know, around us and I think where where this kind of comes back and and and I think ultimately I think about within the context really of belonging is this idea that.
00:03:15 Al
Who you are and your own internal self-awareness is really important to be able to do a lot of things that you said in terms of being able to know who your true self is.
00:03:23 Al
Being able to understand what it means to show up as authentic in your own skin and your own feelings being true to who you.
00:03:30 Al
And in addition to that, all of us also exist in a world that is much bigger than just herself.
00:03:36 Al
And so being able to understand how others might see that and perceive that can also be incredibly helpful.
00:03:43 Al
I think for two reasons.
00:03:44 Al
One because it helps you understand how you might be showing up and and making sure that you're showing up in.
00:03:48 Al
The right way, but what I also think it.
00:03:51 Al
And and why it matters, particularly with for, you know, I do a lot of work with leaders who do, you know what sometimes will say, well, what does it mean for me to really create a sense of belonging or to create a culture where people feel like they belong?
00:04:03 Al
It is important if that is a case where I think it's really on leaders to better understand how what actions they might take or how how might they show up might impact the way that they are able to or not able to create that sense of belonging for their direct reports or for their large organization or the broader culture around them. And so that to me is where I see the importance of self-awareness.
00:04:25 Al
Really coming into play for all people, but and particularly for, for, for leaders who really do have that responsibility of hopefully creating that sense of belonging for for others.
00:04:35 Justin
Mm-hmm. You know, it's interesting the so the two parts of self-awareness being kind of your internal self-awareness and external self-awareness.
00:04:44 Justin
I'm curious if you had any thoughts on kind of the how that relates to in the creating belonging model of you know that the concept of acceptance.
00:04:52 Justin
So we start with authenticity.
00:04:54 Justin
And we move into acceptance of others because it sounds like there could be some kind of overlap there potentially in that kind of external self-awareness and acceptance.
00:05:05 Justin
I'm curious if you have any.
00:05:06 Al
Thoughts on that?
00:05:07 Al
I mean, I think one of the things I I think about is that.
00:05:13 Al
I think that it is easier for people to show up.
00:05:20 Al
Externally, when they're able to do the work, them internally on themselves first, right?
00:05:25 Al
I mean you can, you know, always put on a facade or you can pretend to be perhaps someone that you're not.
00:05:30 Al
Maybe sometimes you you do have to you feel like you do have to do that to do that, or maybe you do have to do that because of the realities of your workplace or just not being in a great culture or feeling.
00:05:39 Al
Other or any type.
00:05:40 Al
Thing. But I do think that when you can come to a greater kind of self-awareness and perhaps even acceptance of yourself and who you are, all the things about you that make you who you are for better.
00:05:55 Al
Or for worse.
00:05:56 Al
I do think it does help you understand how you can then.
00:06:01 Al
Show up externally and how others may perceive you, and I think on the on the other, the other side of that.
00:06:08 Al
Sometimes it you know a lot of the work I do around self-awareness. A lot of times really is around leaders and helping them make sure that they're aware of their biases or things that they may not be able to see as clearly because they are not paying attention to it.
00:06:23 Al
Or sometimes we just can't see just the way that others perceive us, because that's just the lack of our.
00:06:29 Al
And so a lot of times I think that external self-awareness can be helpful to us internally to help us see things that we may not be able to see ourselves or to see things within us that others may see very clearly.
00:06:43 Al
That may be hard for us to be able to to see out our own.
00:06:47 Al
And so I think.
00:06:48 Al
I think that's how I I see it.
00:06:50 Al
You know, kind of coming in, but I I'd be I'd be curious.
00:06:53 Al
To know what you think.
00:06:54 Al
Or or what?
00:06:55 Al
What got you curious about it or where you might see some of the intersection points for that matter.
00:06:59 Justin
Yeah, you know the what really resonated with me and what you said there was it as a part of the work that you do with leaders.
00:07:07 Justin
In their self-awareness is working on understanding their own biases and kind of how they're seeing others. And I think that's a big part of it.
00:07:19 Justin
Because when I talk about authenticity, it's not just.
00:07:24 Justin
I'm me.
00:07:26 Justin
Deal with it.
00:07:27 Justin
Get on.
00:07:28 Justin
Right.
00:07:29 Justin
It is understanding myself and the way that I view the world and that there's other ways of viewing the world but understanding kind of how my perception of the world contrasts with others.
00:07:42 Justin
And I think that then allows us to move into.
00:07:46 Justin
The radical acceptance of others that I talk about, understanding that there are more, more identities, more values, more perspectives in the world than my own, and I think it is.
00:07:56 Justin
We have to start with.
00:07:58 Justin
Self-awareness to be able to do that.
00:08:02 Al
And I think.
00:08:03 Justin
That's sometimes where a lot of you know, work that happens with, you know, diversity training with bias training, whatever that is, is that it's missing that self-awareness piece. Doing the digging for yourself and a really understanding.
00:08:20 Justin
Not just.
00:08:21 Justin
You know my own identities and I am who I am.
00:08:24 Justin
Take it or leave it.
00:08:25 Justin
But really understanding more about how my values contrast with those around me.
00:08:32 Al
Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:33 Al
So let me dig in a little bit further there.
00:08:35 Al
I had a scenario we were working with a leader recently and they had just for the first time.
00:08:41 Al
Gone through a just a pretty standard 360 degree assessment where they got a ton of qualitative feedback for the first time from various different stakeholders within their org.
00:08:52 Al
Vision and some of it was stuff that they knew and were not surprised by and a whole slew of it was stuff that really caught them off guard.
00:09:03 Al
And when we were debriefing and reflecting on it, one of the things that they they said to me was I as they really internalized some of the feedback.
00:09:13 Al
They could trace some of those elements back just to how they were raised as a child, which is not uncommon if you do this work right, you know your environment often shapes you are.
00:09:22 Al
But the thing that they said.
00:09:24 Al
To me that I.
00:09:24 Al
Thought was so important and so critical was their reflection upon that experience was that.
00:09:31 Al
My the way that I see the world, the way that I lead is very much shaped by a set of experiences that happened so long ago, and it wasn't until seeing the impact of what those experiences were through this feedback because of other people who had been on the receiving end of the way, they communicated of the way they engaged, where they realized.
00:09:51 Al
Wow, there are things in my life that have impacted me in such a way and I am they are directly related.
00:09:57 Al
To how I.
00:09:57 Al
Lead and if I'm not careful, and if I'm not understanding of that.
00:10:02 Al
I'm not going to be able to be the leader that I want to be and so going back to what you said, I I like one of the things I like, remember.
00:10:09 Al
And like after the conversation, think of myself was like, just this general idea of, like, we're a leader.
00:10:13 Al
Like, if we're stepping into a leadership role, it's something that we just need to do is just to better understand that the really, to get in tuned with some of those drivers of how we see the world.
00:10:23 Al
How we interact, how we engage, how we think we foster a sense of belonging, because if we don't understand the drivers behind what's fueling that, we may not understand the implications of how we're showing up, particularly if it's being negatively perceived by others.
00:10:35
A party.
00:10:40 Justin
Yeah, I love that. I love the the those 360 experiences. As a tangent, I recall several years ago a 360 experience where a leader had such a negative reaction to his feedback that he actually he thought he knew who was giving some of the negative feedback and he went into the hallway and called them and tried to fire them.
00:11:01 Justin
That like on the spot.
00:11:02 Justin
That was pretty wild.
00:11:04 Al
That is, well, that is.
00:11:06 Al
Yeah, that is.
00:11:06 Al
Yeah, that that is so yeah, that is that is very, very.
00:11:10 Justin
If you're going through 360, don't don't assume who's giving you the feedback, and don't try to fire.
00:11:15 Justin
Someone from it?
00:11:16 Al
Right.
00:11:19 Justin
So I I'd love to hear kind of, you know, moving into your.
00:11:26 Justin
Experiences in relation to the various parts of the creating belonging model.
00:11:32 Justin
You know either being in recluse, overbearing, minimizing, or when you've, you know, been in that sweet spot.
00:11:38 Justin
Of feeling belonging.
00:11:40 Justin
I'm curious if you can think back to your professional experiences and and any that that pop out or resonate.
00:11:46 Justin
For you.
00:11:49 Al
So for those who don't know me, I am Asian American.
00:11:54 Al
I grew up in the United States.
00:11:56 Al
My my mom grew up in Hong Kong, and my father grew up in.
00:12:00 Al
The United States.
00:12:00 Al
But I have always been growing up.
00:12:03 Al
At least I had always been in pretty diverse environments or what I thought to be is diverse environments and also.
00:12:09 Al
By my opinion, just looking back pretty accepting environments, I never really felt that I looked or was different than other people.
00:12:17 Al
People, even though I did look different than a lot of other people, particularly just in the environments that I was in.
00:12:23 Al
But I remember getting into the workforce in the first couple of years and being in the workforce and working in the world of management consulting and and oftentimes looking up to the ranks of the leaders and and looking at people in those positions and and realizing that there were not a lot of people that looked like me.
00:12:39 Al
There were not a lot of people who were Asian or Asian American, and even in in the cases where there there were Asian leaders, they definitely were not vocal and, you know, I think there's, you know, a lot of research and studies have been done.
00:12:55 Al
Just about, you know, cultivation culture and and what that is and it was really hard for me because at that point in time, I definitely had aspirations of wanting to really rise up through the organization.
00:13:07 Al
And I've always just been someone who's been incredibly vocal.
00:13:10 Al
And so it did make me wonder, is I'm sure it might make other people wonder who do.
00:13:15 Al
Feel like they might be in a minority group with an organization of do I have a place here and do I have a voice here?
00:13:22 Al
Right.
00:13:22 Al
Is am I going to be someone that is going to be?
00:13:25 Al
To be accepted right?
00:13:27 Al
Am I going to be someone who?
00:13:29 Al
Because if you, you know, the saying goes, if you can't be what you can't see, sometimes it can feel pretty like an uphill battle to really feel like you belong and that you can be successful and so.
00:13:40 Al
I think.
00:13:41 Al
Honestly, what it made me do at that point I I would say is.
00:13:45 Al
So probably in the the the minimizing category I gotta camp if you will, right, either trying to downplay certain aspects of myself.
00:13:55 Al
So that I didn't.
00:13:56 Al
I didn't stand out like a sore thumb, right.
00:13:59 Al
Or trying to maybe hold back in certain ways because I just didn't, you know, I I was.
00:14:06 Al
I wasn't sure if that was going to be accepted or if that was going to enable me to be successful and so the easiest thing to do is to just kind of.
00:14:13 Al
Minimize it like I I kind of knew who I was, but like, I just.
00:14:16 Al
It was hard for me to wanna fully lead.
00:14:18 Al
Into that, and so that was definitely a place where I maybe didn't necessarily feel like that, that stronger sense of belonging.
00:14:26 Al
But what I would say is that on the flip side of that, I remember working on a project I started working with a team.
00:14:32 Al
In particular, I remember working on a project and getting a performance review.
00:14:38 Al
After the project where.
00:14:41 Al
My manager at the time went through the performance review afterwards with me and everything was going well and one of the things she said to me kind of in an offhanded like way was just, you know, like she said they were and said to me like, I can't describe it, but like whatever you're doing, just just keep being.
00:14:57 Al
You just keep being you like what you bring to this team.
00:15:01 Al
Like we need more of that.
00:15:02 Al
So just just keep doing it and.
00:15:05 Al
It was one of those moments where I honestly felt seen in all the right ways, where I felt like who I was, my ethos, the way that I engaged the way that I worked, the way that I.
00:15:17 Al
Saw the world.
00:15:19 Al
Was like accepted and I really you know really started to, you know, really.
00:15:25 Al
Feel like?
00:15:26 Al
A that sense of acceptance, but B that like it was really who I was.
00:15:30 Al
And by her just kind of saying this simple phrase of just just keep being you and almost like, was this unconscious trigger of, like, OK, you're you're you're safe here.
00:15:40 Al
You can.
00:15:41 Al
You can.
00:15:42 Al
You can fully be who you are.
00:15:44 Al
And so those are just two, two stories.
00:15:46 Al
That, that come that come to mind in terms of, you know, particularly in my earlier days of my career of of just working through the the journey of belonging, I guess you could, I would maybe call it.
00:15:58 Justin
So I love that that you.
00:15:59 Justin
Had this manager who?
00:16:02 Justin
Said just keep being you.
00:16:05 Justin
I want to loop back around it and I want to go back to.
00:16:11 Justin
That external self-awareness and I'm just putting you on the spot here, how did how did that kind of validation that validation of keep being you, how did that reinforce or influence your external self-awareness?
00:16:29 Al
What it did was that it made me realize that the way in which I was working on the team, the way in which I was engaging the work I was doing like the was, was making an impact and that other people appreciated it.
00:16:46 Al
I think that.
00:16:48 Al
And looking back and knowing what I know now of this particular leader, because we've we've got to be fairly close.
00:16:53 Al
What she really appreciated about what I brought to the team was.
00:16:56 Al
That I was someone who was inviting, who was welcoming.
00:17:00 Al
I was someone who was constantly engaging others, asking for their ideas and for their feedback.
00:17:06 Al
I was someone who was making time to get to know people, to build a sense of trust with others, both on the team as well with the client and I.
00:17:17 Al
Kind of did those things because I just.
00:17:18 Al
Just that's who I was and that's how I thought.
00:17:21 Al
Like, just those are things that just are inherent to me.
00:17:24 Al
But going back to the External self-awareness thing, what it made me realize in that moment with that piece of feedback was that she was telling me that, yeah, like, keep, keep doing that. Like, yeah, like, keep leaning into that. Like, yeah, like, that stuff matters and.
00:17:39 Al
You know, in the world of professional services, a lot of the things that I just mentioned, I mean professional services is a human to human business, right?
00:17:46 Al
If you can, if you can do some of those things that I mentioned, you can you can have a pretty good career in that.
00:17:52 Al
Field and so.
00:17:53 Al
I think I definitely probably had some of my own kind of limiting beliefs in play.
00:18:00 Al
Initially of is are these things the things that are going to be accepted but with her kind of giving me that encouragement.
00:18:07 Al
It was almost like a tripwire for me in a positive way of ohh like this.
00:18:13 Al
This is someone telling you that.
00:18:15 Al
The things that you think about yourself, which you are manifesting in the behaviors, are actually a good thing, and this is something where you can safely lean into it because someone has created that space and given you that encouragement to keep, keep to keep doing it and it certainly helped that, you know, like if it was another teammate.
00:18:31 Al
At my level, that certainly would have been like Nice and helpful and probably would have helped my external self-awareness, like, oh, my teammates think I'm.
00:18:37 Al
Great, but it.
00:18:38 Al
Was an added bonus that this was a leader in this case who had some level of resource of privilege of, of, of whatnot.
00:18:45 Al
And so it just, it definitely became. It became a pretty a pretty powerful evidence piece, particularly on the External self-awareness.
00:18:53 Al
Side of things.
00:18:54 Justin
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:55 Justin
I think when you've got that, you know someone that has, you know, in that position of power, validating and saying please be bring more of what you're bringing.
00:19:05 Justin
I think that's great.
00:19:07 Justin
One so back to I wanted to talk about.
00:19:12 Justin
You had mentioned you know earlier when you were in a place of, you know felt like you were probably in a place of minimizing and you were in an organization where there wasn't a lot of representation.
00:19:25 Justin
I feel like I recall you telling me a story once about.
00:19:29 Justin
An interaction that you had with the leader relative to representation.
00:19:35 Justin
Would you mind sharing that?
00:19:37 Justin
Yeah, so.
00:19:38 Al
As I mentioned, it quickly learned and quickly saw that there were not a lot of people that looked like me and one of my self reflections from that experience was I felt like I needed to do a little bit of work in terms of figuring out if I did want to stay here at or stay at the company, what that journey would look like and what I could do to be success.
00:19:59 Al
And one of the things that I did was that there was an opportunity to attend the diversity, equity and Inclusion Summit internally, and you had to apply to it.
00:20:08 Al
And so I applied to it and I said, you know what?
00:20:09 Al
I'm going to go.
00:20:10 Al
This could be a good chance to meet other people, hopefully meet some other either some other allies or some people who look like me, who.
00:20:17 Al
Are in positions of power, et cetera.
00:20:19 Al
So I went and I remember going to the event and it really they really did pull out all the stops.
00:20:25 Al
They had a lot of senior leaders at the firm, both folks who.
00:20:30 Al
You know, we're allies to EI as well as individuals who, you know, did come from groups that were traditionally underrepresented.
00:20:37 Al
And I remember, I mean the time was maybe 2425, so I was still pretty young and junior.
00:20:43 Al
And while normally I'm pretty good and and in social settings, it definitely was like a little bit overwhelming and I remember.
00:20:50 Al
At one point a older gentleman came up to me.
00:20:53 Al
He introduced himself.
00:20:54 Al
He was external of the company, but he was an invited guest.
00:20:58 Al
And we just started talking.
00:21:00 Al
He also was Asian American.
00:21:01 Al
He had been a longtime executive, and now he worked with a number of different diversity nonprofits as more of an advisor.
00:21:08 Al
And so we started talking and every now and then someone would come by and he would say, oh, do you know him or do you know her?
00:21:14 Al
Or do you know them and all these people were literally all the people who were the ones who were like.
00:21:21 Al
Signing well, but some of them literally was.
00:21:22 Al
I think the name of the guy who wrote signed on my paycheck, or the one that I got, like every two weeks.
00:21:27 Al
So like pretty like big name figures and he's introducing.
00:21:29 Al
Me to all these people, he's inviting me into conversations and he's he's really going out of his way to.
00:21:35 Al
You lend me a little bit of social capital so that I could feel welcomed and accepted and and and it was a huge help if anything in the moment because it was a little bit overwhelming, particularly help more junior I was.
00:21:49 Al
And so the event was maybe two days and at the end of the event I I found him and just went up to him afterwards and just said, hey, I just want to.
00:21:56 Al
Thank you for.
00:21:57 Al
It was great to get to meet you, but I really appreciate how you went out of your way to to really make me feel included and really invite me into the conversation.
00:22:05 Al
And he kind of said, you know, to happy to do that.
00:22:08 Al
It's why we come to these things.
00:22:10 Al
And at the end of it, he just kind of said to me said, hey, if I if I can ask.
00:22:12 Al
You a favor.
00:22:13 Al
And I said sure.
00:22:14 Al
And he just said, you know, next time you're in an event.
00:22:17 Al
Like this and you or any other event in any other room.
00:22:22 Al
And you come across someone who looks like you.
00:22:25 Al
When you came first came to this event.
00:22:28 Al
Please do what you can to.
00:22:30 Al
Make them feel like they belong with whatever you can do, and it was a humbling and powerful, I think moment for me because.
00:22:40 Al
I think I, I mean I think I assumed that he was just trying to help me out because I I was definitely.
00:22:44 Al
One of the youngest people.
00:22:45 Al
There, but I it very much showed me that he was aware of probably what was going on in my head, even if I wasn't fully aware of it.
00:22:52 Al
And in that moment, he did what he could to to help out someone else, to make sure they felt like they felt included.
00:22:59 Al
And they felt like they.
00:23:00 Al
Want and what I think it showed me though is that and what I would then learn from here on out is that you know, I'm.
00:23:06 Al
I I I still haven't been someone like him where I'm not a retired seaspeed executive like I don't necessarily have like that kind of social capital or that kind of credibility per say.
00:23:18 Al
But in any given room.
00:23:20 Al
Belonging can be relative, right and so or feeling included can be relative and so.
00:23:25 Al
There might be something I can do in in those rooms.
00:23:28 Al
It may not be as what he he could have done, but there can be something that I could do and so.
00:23:33 Al
I have tried to be mindful of that and tried to pay more attention to that and when I am in positions where I can do something like, I really try to do it no matter how small or how large it is, because that was that experience taught me that that I do have the capacity to to do that and I've really tried.
00:23:48 Al
To do that ever since.
00:23:50 Justin
Yeah, I love that.
00:23:51 Justin
I love that kind of ask that he had of you to essentially pay, pay it forward for, you know, future folks to make sure that they feel like they are included and or they belong, I know.
00:23:59 Al
Right.
00:24:07 Justin
I think I mentioned in my opening episode that, you know, there's the story that I tell about, you know, when I had my boss, who was like, hey, like Toby, so gay and I, you know, kind of went in the closet for a bit and now, like, I really work to be.
00:24:28 Justin
And it's really in that it's not just for me.
00:24:31 Justin
It's not just for my own authenticity.
00:24:34 Justin
It is for others so that they have that, you know, that role model, that someone that is visible, that you know can help them understand that they too can be out and that's.
00:24:48 Justin
A lot of the as I continue to evolve the work of creating belonging, that's one big piece of it is leaning into that authenticity for others to be.
00:25:00 Justin
Out with, you know, whatever it is with your identity, be it visible or not visible so that we can pay it forward for others.
00:25:08 Justin
I love that.
00:25:08 Al
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:10 Al
It's such a powerful.
00:25:11 Al
It's such a a powerful mental model and thought process.
00:25:13 Al
And I mean it.
00:25:14 Al
You know, I I think I said.
00:25:15 Al
This briefly in.
00:25:15 Al
The beginning, but we all live and work in a organizational system that is much larger and bigger than ourselves.
00:25:22 Al
Right.
00:25:22 Al
And that doesn't mean we need to be martyrs, but what it does, I think mean is that we do have a little bit of.
00:25:28 Al
Choice and agency for how we choose to show up in in any given moment.
00:25:33 Al
And when I think of belonging and and anything related to the D and I moved.
00:25:38 Al
I often like to think about this idea of lightning bolts or drum beats, right?
00:25:44 Al
And so the lightning bolts are like the the big ahas and the big moments.
00:25:49 Al
And those are good and fine and importance and and are critical, but it's the drum beats those many things that we choose to do each and every day.
00:25:56 Al
There's many habits and practices that.
00:25:58 Al
Ultimately, you've practiced overtime.
00:26:01 Al
Can make a small dent in in terms of what these individuals can do.
00:26:05 Al
And so I think how you choose to show up like how you choose in any given moment, if you do, can you know, do one little thing like that guy did for me to help someone else, you know.
00:26:15 Al
You know, that's what you know, matters.
00:26:17 Al
We may not all have the luxury to be able to make a lightning bolt happen, but we all have the ability to to, to, to make those drum beats happy.
00:26:25 Justin
Well, and you know, I'm gonna extend out your metaphor, but. And, you know, I think sometimes what may feel like a drum beat for us that we're, you know, we're just, it's one tap of the drum for us. Like, that could be someone else's lightning bolt. Right.
00:26:34 Al
Is a.
00:26:35 Al
Yeah, I love that.
00:26:41 Al
Oh well, yeah, that's such a great point.
00:26:43 Al
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:43 Justin
You know, like it, it seems small to us, but for someone else it's a really big gesture and a big deal.
00:26:50 Justin
I love that.
00:26:52 Justin
Well, thank you for that, Al.
00:26:53 Justin
I think that's a really great, a really great point to kind of close out is is thinking about.
00:27:00 Justin
You know how we can beat the drum on a daily basis so that we're continuing to move things forward.
00:27:09 Justin
So I want to thank you so much for for being a guest on my creating belonging podcast.
00:27:18 Justin
And as we close out, I just want to make sure that people.
00:27:21 Justin
Can find you.
00:27:22 Justin
And connect with.
00:27:24 Justin
So what are some good ways for folks to to find you?
00:27:29 Al
Thank you so much, Justin.
00:27:30 Al
Folks can just find me on LinkedIn.
00:27:32 Al
My name is Al Dee.
00:27:33 Al
Just feel free.
00:27:34 Al
Me to connect with me and tell me that Justin sent you my way, and you certainly can check out my website.
00:27:40 Al
Better work labs if you're looking to help your people become people smart, get in contact with me by checking out my website.
00:27:48 Al
But thank you, Justin.
00:27:48 Al
It's been great chatting.
00:27:49 Justin
With you awesome. And just to help folks, is it better works la-bs.com.
00:27:55 Al
Yeah. Better work la-bs.com. Yep.
00:27:57 Justin
OK, awesome. So you were fortunate enough to get your desired domain name with a.com.
00:28:05 Al
Very, very fortunate.
00:28:06 Al
Yes, very, very.
00:28:08 Al
One of the few one of the few.
00:28:10 Justin
Well, thank you so much.
00:28:12 Justin
Thank you all for listening.
00:28:13 Justin
And stay tuned for our next episode in the next two weeks.
