The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
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In this episode we discuss Veronica's experience moving from Lima, Peru, attending Notre Dame, and getting comfortable with her identity as a Latina in sales.
You can find Veronica Rivero here on LinkedIn or Instagram, and for those in the near north suburbs of Chicago, look out for Fajita Pete's coming soon!
Article: Fajita Pete's Opens Five Stores
Company Website: Fajita Pete's Wilmette, Facebook, Instagram
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Creative Commons / Attribution 3.0 Unported License (CC BY 3.0)
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00:00:10 Justin
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Creating Belonging Podcast.
00:00:16 Justin
Today, I'm excited to have our guest Veronica Rivero with us.
00:00:21 Justin
And as always, I love to hear our guests introduce themselves and share in their own voice.
00:00:26 Justin
So, Veronica, if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about yourself?
00:00:30 Veronica
All right.
00:00:30 Veronica
Thank you, Justin.
00:00:31 Veronica
I'm super excited to be here.
00:00:33 Veronica
And first of all, Congrats on.
00:00:35 Veronica
Finally nailing it.
00:00:36 Veronica
What creating belonging means it truly I truly.
00:00:38 Veronica
Mean it? I'm.
00:00:39 Veronica
Not getting paid for this, so I absolutely.
00:00:41 Veronica
Love the book.
00:00:42 Veronica
I'm Veronica Rivero, born and raised in Lima, Peru.
00:00:42 Justin
Thank you.
00:00:45 Veronica
If you were wondering where my little accents from, I actually grew up there and then went to College in southern Indiana and.
00:00:52 Veronica
Name and I actually studied my, started my career in finance, slowly transition out to advertising sales, living for 10 years in.
00:00:59 Veronica
New York City.
00:00:59 Veronica
And then most recently in lovely Chicago for.
00:01:02 Veronica
The past six years, I think my career so it's summarized in the you know, first started in big corporations second and have my toes into startups and also most recently it became a a small business owner with my husband trying to bring Latino owned business franchise, Tex Mex from Houston to the Greater Chicago area.
00:01:22 Veronica
Later this year, so very exciting.
00:01:24 Veronica
Lots of project on top of that being a huge TI advocate and speaker on the side and supporting all our communities nationwide.
00:01:31 Veronica
And and globally.
00:01:33 Justin
That's great.
00:01:34 Justin
Thank you, Veronica.
00:01:35 Justin
So you're, you're busy.
00:01:37 Justin
You're busy.
00:01:37 Justin
That's good.
00:01:39 Justin
So for our listeners, as most of most of our listeners are just on audio, if you wouldn't mind sharing just a few aspects of your identity to kind of help ground us in the conversation.
00:01:50 Justin
I know you said you were from Lima, Peru.
00:01:53 Justin
But what what?
00:01:54 Justin
Else, what other aspects of your identity would you like to share today?
00:01:56
OK.
00:01:58 Veronica
Yes, I I am very you know you can see in this scenario but I use my hands a lot.
00:02:03 Veronica
I think that's a Latina thing, or some Italians as well, but I actually love it and I think earlier on in my career because I'm very curious, person expressive.
00:02:12 Veronica
And I've been told, don't use your hands or do this or that or things that I minimize.
00:02:17 Veronica
That's one of them that I actually embraced because I I language and conversation is more than.
00:02:23 Veronica
Just appearance as we know it's it's all the different things out there.
00:02:27 Veronica
So that's one of them.
00:02:28 Veronica
I also very proud of of being not just a Peruvian, A Latina and and having an accent, I think growing up obviously I didn't have an accent.
00:02:36 Veronica
Because Spanish is.
00:02:37 Veronica
My first language, but that was the first thing that when I moved to the USA 18 people.
00:02:42 Veronica
Recognized and I was.
00:02:43 Veronica
Asked about and and I used to hate it, but now I embrace it and I think that's actually become my identity in in one of what I would call my my superpowers.
00:02:53 Veronica
Because when I think of or I meet someone else that has an accent, right, I think immediately.
00:02:57 Veronica
Ohh, they speak a second language.
00:02:59 Veronica
We all know the research shows us second languages just help.
00:03:03 Veronica
The brain and.
00:03:03 Veronica
Overall innovation and and just help you overall.
00:03:06 Veronica
So, so that's what I've turned on and try to help others that are also having difficulty of having an accent or embarrass, you know, just embrace that and think of the good things that it brings to everyone.
00:03:18 Justin
Yeah, I love that.
00:03:20 Justin
You know the you said that your accent like at one point in time you kind of wanted to minimize it or you didn't embrace it and now you fully embrace.
00:03:28 Justin
It and it's interesting to think about parts of our identity that you know, at some points in our life, we just want to fit in.
00:03:38 Justin
And so we just want to kind of like push that.
00:03:40 Justin
Down and not go against the mold.
00:03:44 Justin
And then as we grow into ourselves and we grow into our authenticity, we then embrace those things like your accent, as you say.
00:03:54 Justin
That is something that that it makes you who you are and can be a part of your signature.
00:04:00 Justin
So I love.
00:04:01 Justin
I love that you've gone through that journey and are now in place of embracing it.
00:04:06 Veronica
Thank you. Thank you.
00:04:08 Justin
So, so and again, thank you for the compliment on the.
00:04:11 Justin
Book I wanted.
00:04:12 Justin
To let's dive right in and get into the creating longing model and and where you've seen yourself sitting in various parts of the creating belonging model before.
00:04:24 Justin
So just.
00:04:25 Justin
UM to.
00:04:27 Justin
Anchor us and remind our listeners the creating belonging model is that belonging is created at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance, and we have the four parts of the creating belonging model where when we're low on authenticity, low on acceptance, we're in recluse.
00:04:43 Justin
When we're high on authenticity, low on acceptance, we're in overbearing.
00:04:47 Justin
When we're high on acceptance but low on authenticity, we're in minimizing.
00:04:52 Justin
And when we're high on authenticity, high on acceptance, we're in the sweet spot and we're in belonging.
00:04:58 Justin
Veronica, I'd love to hear.
00:04:59 Justin
Or a story just from your past when you've been in one of those areas of the model, kind of what was going on then?
00:05:08 Veronica
Yeah, I think until now to be completely honest, I've I've been in one or another, but I've never actually sit down.
00:05:14 Veronica
And when I was going through the model, I literally went to grab my notebook and I was like, wait a minute.
00:05:19 Veronica
I feel like I've been through all of these at one point in my life since moving to the US and just to begin with, you know, I think I've.
00:05:26 Veronica
Recluse. That's when I first moved to the US. I went to Nordheim, you know, majority white school. I was that 1% and that 1% rich, 1% Hispanic, which has changed by the which I'm really happy when I.
00:05:38 Veronica
When I was there, it wasn't the case.
00:05:40 Veronica
So first me trying to minimize that accent so I could fit in with with everyone else.
00:05:45 Veronica
Oh, I'm I'm the foreign girl.
00:05:47 Veronica
You know that many of me and I was trying.
00:05:49 Veronica
To to act differently.
00:05:51 Veronica
Or pretend that I was someone that I wasn't because I was going to this, you know, wealthy private school.
00:05:57 Veronica
So I tried I I realized that well, that's not really me.
00:06:01 Veronica
And I think I was just spending more time doing research on being someone I was not and.
00:06:05 Veronica
I think it's.
00:06:05 Veronica
Slowly I I did find, you know, amazing friends until this day.
00:06:10 Veronica
Have amazing friends from all levels that are that are very humble and that that's what I like.
00:06:15 Veronica
I was like, it doesn't matter if you're rich or not, it's it's more about the person or the quality.
00:06:21 Veronica
So the things that we have in common and and slowly I think started to move into more of a.
00:06:28 Veronica
Getting to know people that just wanted to get to know me.
00:06:30 Veronica
For me, right, for cause.
00:06:31 Veronica
I'm funny, smart, you know, getting but also.
00:06:37 Veronica
Also that yeah, it was a Catholic school and I grew up Catholic, but also what I love that I I had never before attended or.
00:06:43 Veronica
Them had any Jewish friends, for example, and it it did open my curiosity because Nordam actually has.
00:06:49 Veronica
The number one fencing team in 13 years in a row and I met this amazing guy that I don't think I would have the opportunity growing up in a Catholic country in other environments that was, you know, a good friend that I met just through classes and it opened up my eyes and learning more, which really helped me.
00:07:05 Veronica
Once I moved to New York understand and just got that.
00:07:08 Veronica
Curiosity and also, even though we have to take certain classes that are theology or philosophy at the same time, when most people are taking, you know, like introduction to to Catholic season 101.
00:07:19 Veronica
I was like, you know what, you know that that that a lot.
00:07:22 Veronica
That's great.
00:07:22 Veronica
But let me take world religions.
00:07:24 Veronica
Right.
00:07:24 Veronica
Let me.
00:07:24 Veronica
See what else is out there that I might not know?
00:07:28 Veronica
I I think I'm adult enough to understand, but also I I want to see what's out there in the world.
00:07:32 Veronica
So I started trying to be someone else but slowly just discovering myself and discovering others.
00:07:39 Veronica
I think I was able to to navigate closer to accepting who I are and still identify.
00:07:46 Justin
OK, so I'm going to dig into a few things there.
00:07:49 Justin
I I first of all, I can't even imagine what it would be.
00:07:52
Right.
00:07:53 Justin
To move from Peru and then move to the states, you're in a new country.
00:08:01 Justin
You're, you know, everyone's speaking a language.
00:08:04 Justin
That's not your first language, and as you said, you were.
00:08:08 Justin
You were most likely in recluse kind of right in the beginning, just kind of figuring out how you position.
00:08:15 Justin
And it's interesting because I I talk a a lot about how being in reckless isn't a bad thing.
00:08:21 Justin
Sometimes we have to be in recluse for one reason or another, and I would imagine, you know, moving to a new country, you just kind of need to sit and be quiet and observe for a bit to really figure.
00:08:32 Justin
Out how you.
00:08:35 Justin
Fit into the world and not.
00:08:37 Justin
I don't mean that in a in a bad way, but I think it's just like a a place of observation.
00:08:42 Justin
So I think that's interesting.
00:08:43 Justin
I'm going to pause there.
00:08:44 Justin
And see how that resonates.
00:08:46 Veronica
Yeah, I think you know, just like you say in your book that we all have that innate need, we want to belong right to either a particular community or a group or boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever.
00:08:57 Veronica
We want to feel that we belong somewhere, so being in a new country, I I wanted to find, you know, my group, because I also like change majors.
00:09:05 Veronica
So even with the when I started with engineers.
00:09:07 Veronica
But then I wasn't really wanting to study that.
00:09:09 Veronica
I ended up studying business, right?
00:09:11 Veronica
So I found a different group.
00:09:12 Veronica
So. So just navigating in in, in as a, you know still a teenager, right, 1819 figuring life.
00:09:20 Veronica
So it's definitely all these things at once, but getting the right, you know, just conversation.
00:09:26 Veronica
Sometimes it's something that we.
00:09:27 Veronica
Do a lot is just.
00:09:29 Veronica
Try to do research, but also sometimes.
00:09:31 Veronica
Conversations and just listening, right, being curious and and talking to other people.
00:09:35 Veronica
I think that really.
00:09:36 Veronica
Help me, little by little, get away from from that parks because at the beginning the regular, honest, you know, I would meet people and they would be like Oh my.
00:09:44 Veronica
Gosh, I love your accent.
00:09:45 Veronica
And I'll be.
00:09:45 Veronica
Like I hate it.
00:09:46 Veronica
They're like, oh, OK, right.
00:09:49 Veronica
And it's like, well, who?
00:09:49 Veronica
Wants to talk to someone that responds like that.
00:09:52 Veronica
So I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't say that, right?
00:09:55 Veronica
Like a friend of mine.
00:09:56 Veronica
Like, maybe I shouldn't say that.
00:09:57 Veronica
That was a compliment, really.
00:09:59 Veronica
Why I when I.
00:10:00 Veronica
Speak perfect English and.
00:10:01 Veronica
Then I realized, oh, I can't get free.
00:10:03 Veronica
Drinks with these accent.
00:10:05 Veronica
No, but you know.
00:10:08 Veronica
But I was like.
00:10:08 Veronica
Oh, you know you it is, you know.
00:10:10 Veronica
Like, they recognize that it's cute.
00:10:12 Veronica
Yes or whatever.
00:10:13 Veronica
And and I started.
00:10:14 Veronica
You know.
00:10:15 Veronica
I think reframing that aspect of my identity and myself, and it's who I am and I came to the US at 18, so this accents are going anywhere.
00:10:24 Veronica
But I also sorry you know slowly and it's taking me many years to appreciate it and kind of reframe it and also trying to help others like myself that are coming to this country and and help them think.
00:10:36 Veronica
That way I think that really stuck with me.
00:10:37 Veronica
Like you know that that just shows that you speak another language, which is great.
00:10:42 Veronica
So when I hear someone when accent I, I'm immediately curious about learning about their background and what makes them tick.
00:10:49 Veronica
And and I try to share that with others with accents so that they feel, you know, good about who they are in themselves.
00:10:56 Justin
Yeah, I love that.
00:10:58 Justin
Thank you.
00:10:59 Justin
So I wanted to dig in on.
00:11:02 Justin
So you said that you took or early in college, you took a world religions class and I want to dig into that and learn more about what, what I'll give background to the question.
00:11:14 Justin
I talk about authenticity, but when we're too high on authenticity and low on acceptance, it means that we're just kind of looking through the world through our own unique lens.
00:11:24 Justin
We're not.
00:11:24 Justin
We're leaving the blinders on and not expanding our worldview to try to understand and move new people into a place of acceptance.
00:11:33 Justin
And so for you.
00:11:35 Justin
At that kind of young formative age of 1819 years old, took the world religions course. I'm curious what compelled you to and kind of how that helped your worldview?
00:11:48 Veronica
I think for me personally growing up in wanna Catholic country too, I went to an all girls Catholic school, the same school that my older sister went to.
00:11:58 Veronica
Then my mom went and and her sister.
00:12:01 Veronica
It was kind of and, and I always.
00:12:03 Veronica
Kind of joked that.
00:12:04 Veronica
Through and let's him.
00:12:05 Veronica
It's like a dictatorship, right?
00:12:06 Veronica
We don't have electives like in the US it's like.
00:12:08 Veronica
You take this or that if you're good in this class, you go to API equivalent and things like that so.
00:12:13 Veronica
I was always told what to do and and I did it well, but also like this is great.
00:12:18 Veronica
I have amazing friends but I want to learn about the world.
00:12:21 Veronica
I want to learn about people are different than.
00:12:24 Veronica
Me because it's.
00:12:25 Veronica
Just boring.
00:12:26 Veronica
If everyone's the same and has the same ideas.
00:12:29 Veronica
And I also want to be challenged, right?
00:12:31 Veronica
Like if I believe in something only because my parents or my community or.
00:12:35 Veronica
The city I live in is is telling me I'm like, great, but sometimes you start questioning certain things.
00:12:40 Veronica
So I was just great.
00:12:41 Veronica
I'm like, I think I know by now.
00:12:42 Veronica
And I was even because the 1st.
00:12:44 Veronica
Class one of the first.
00:12:45 Veronica
Classes was, yeah, theology.
00:12:46 Veronica
So I was like, oh.
00:12:47 Veronica
Gosh, I feel like by now 13 years of Catholic school, I think I know the Bible inside out.
00:12:52 Veronica
So let's let let's learn something else and I can add to my toolkit, but also to better understand because it's a.
00:12:59 Veronica
Big world out.
00:12:59 Veronica
There, and I haven't been exposed to it.
00:13:01 Veronica
And and I would love to learn and.
00:13:03 Veronica
And I think that really I I met so many amazing friends there and I still.
00:13:07 Veronica
To this day.
00:13:08 Veronica
You know, I want to be respectful.
00:13:09 Veronica
Because of something that you mentioned in your book as well as far as like ohh, you know it's the holidays and then companies are like ohh, let's do the Bible.
00:13:17 Veronica
And it's like, even for me it's.
00:13:18 Veronica
Like, let's do trivia about the Bible.
00:13:20 Veronica
It's like really like, even this Catholic doesn't wanna do.
00:13:23 Veronica
To that you.
00:13:24 Veronica
Know no offense to religion or anything, but it's it's more about what?
00:13:27 Veronica
What about we do something.
00:13:28 Veronica
That everyone likes, I mean or you.
00:13:31 Veronica
Know who doesn't like?
00:13:31 Veronica
Pizza, right?
00:13:32 Veronica
Or does?
00:13:32
A pizza trivia or.
00:13:34 Veronica
Pop or things like that.
00:13:35 Veronica
I was just very curious person and also like I grab just girls.
00:13:39 Veronica
And people that.
00:13:40 Veronica
Look like me and I know that.
00:13:41 Veronica
I I did have the chance I.
00:13:43 Veronica
I want a scholarship to go on a trip to study abroad in Germany in high school and I think that just opened up for me like you.
00:13:50 Veronica
Know people were.
00:13:51 Veronica
Asking me like ohh where are your feathers?
00:13:53 Veronica
Aren't you Peruvian?
00:13:54 Veronica
You know, I saw these stereotypes about Latin America, so I was like, you know, let me seek to understand.
00:14:01 Veronica
And I've always, I think.
00:14:02 Veronica
You know, instead of judging, let's seek to understand and.
00:14:06 Veronica
And I wanted to understand because I knew I wanted to continue living in big cities that are going to be diverse.
00:14:12 Veronica
So I I want to understand and learn and get educated about it.
00:14:15 Veronica
And I think that opened up really a a new world to me just from even meeting friends that are.
00:14:22 Veronica
Muslim or Jewish or not necessarily, you know, or that don't believe in anything which is OK we can still be friends and and and we don't have we can have an informed conversation versus just talking about the same.
00:14:36 Veronica
Think all the time.
00:14:37 Veronica
So I think that just I'm very curious person and that truly piqued my interest and and I'm always continue to be curious as to what makes people tick and why they're they think or do the things they do.
00:14:48 Justin
Yeah, I think what I'm hearing and something I'm connecting that I I want to incorporate into the work of creating belonging because I don't know that I've talked a lot about the role that curiosity plays.
00:15:02 Justin
In in acceptance right, the more curious we can be about people, about differences, about things, and curious in a like, genuine, curious and respectful way.
00:15:18
MM.
00:15:19 Justin
It's so much easier to move into acceptance.
00:15:22 Justin
We we we widen.
00:15:24 Justin
Our worldview, we take down those blinders.
00:15:29 Justin
I love that.
00:15:30 Justin
So you so you graduated college, you kind of moved along.
00:15:35 Justin
And I think you said one of the fields that you went into was advertising.
00:15:41 Justin
And so I would love to hear a little bit about either in the model kind of as you enter the.
00:15:42
OK.
00:15:48 Justin
Advertising business where you sat and some of the stories there or you know it sounds like you've got a natural way of flexing into acceptance through your curiosity.
00:16:00 Justin
And so how you found?
00:16:04 Justin
Developing your authenticity in that advertising world.
00:16:10 Veronica
Yes, I think it it was fascinating to me to live in a in a city like New York City that it's kind of the same size as Peru, but we're extremely diverse.
00:16:18 Veronica
So so again that for my curiosity at the same time, even when I started working, you know, like in this universal Telemundo Spanish media, because of I, I love, you know, and I wanted to elevate multicultural voices.
00:16:31 Veronica
I realize that's still, you know, sometimes a lot of the executive for people in power were not didn't really.
00:16:36 Veronica
Look like me.
00:16:37 Veronica
I'm like we are programming is in Spanish.
00:16:39 Veronica
That's interesting that they don't speak Spanish.
00:16:41 Veronica
But OK, as long as.
00:16:42 Veronica
They're passionate about it and they want to learn.
00:16:44 Veronica
You know, I figure this would be great.
00:16:46 Veronica
And I think when I started in, in advertising, I started to realize.
00:16:50 Veronica
That it was a little bit.
00:16:51 Veronica
Like that's where I was moving towards minimizing my identity despite being, you know, in the most diverse city in the country and and having friends for all backgrounds and all over the world.
00:17:05 Veronica
I realized that advertising was really.
00:17:07 Veronica
A white boy.
00:17:08 Veronica
This club and and I was trying to be that, you know I started like, OK, like oh man, I don't really know.
00:17:14 Veronica
How to play golf or like?
00:17:16 Veronica
Sports and and I was just trying to learn things or like the locker room.
00:17:21 Veronica
Trying to be that boy that my.
00:17:22 Veronica
Dad always wanted.
00:17:23 Veronica
But he never had just to.
00:17:27 Veronica
Kind of fit in, right?
00:17:28 Veronica
And like I.
00:17:29 Veronica
Definitely was not part of any, you know, like Latino grooves.
00:17:32 Veronica
There were no, like, you know, employee resource group or anything like that.
00:17:36 Veronica
I mean I at one point in one.
00:17:37 Veronica
Of my jobs, I was the only Latina.
00:17:39 Veronica
The seller out of 200 people, you know, we had some, you know, African American, Asian American, but no Latinos, a couple Latinos in support groups were not like that director of sales.
00:17:50 Veronica
So I was like.
00:17:51 Veronica
Wait, am I in New York City this?
00:17:53 Veronica
Is crazy and.
00:17:54 Veronica
So I was like, well, you know, no one looks at me.
00:17:56 Veronica
So I started like, trying to dress more like, you know.
00:18:00 Veronica
Like dark colors.
00:18:01 Veronica
And and just not just trying to fit in, more like minimizing who I am.
00:18:05 Veronica
Which I love speaking with my hands, you know.
00:18:08 Veronica
Being I was.
00:18:08 Veronica
Told like, oh, don't use your hands.
00:18:10 Veronica
That's just distracting.
00:18:11 Veronica
Ohh don't do this. Don't do that or you're too loud. I'm like. Ohh there's trust me and my husband's from Minnesota.
00:18:17 Veronica
He's way louder than me on the phone.
00:18:20 Veronica
So definitely you.
00:18:21 Veronica
Know things that that it was just not me.
00:18:24 Veronica
That I was told that's the way to go.
00:18:26 Veronica
And this is how I present and and thankfully throughout my sales career I realized.
00:18:31 Veronica
There's many ways that you can be a great salesperson in your own way.
00:18:35 Veronica
You know, you learn the basics, but as long as you use your own personality and like and, and that's what I've done.
00:18:40 Veronica
But at the beginning I was just trying to be someone I was not.
00:18:43 Veronica
I was trying to minimize it and.
00:18:45 Veronica
Kind of playing.
00:18:45 Veronica
More on the it's like a combination of minimizing, but also the overbearing I think.
00:18:51 Veronica
To that point of like going back to her name.
00:18:53 Veronica
That I was using.
00:18:54 Veronica
Oh, yeah, you know, I.
00:18:55 Veronica
I am somewhat wide because I went.
00:18:58 Veronica
In her name.
00:18:58 Veronica
And I know what that is and I.
00:19:00 Veronica
Was using like.
00:19:01 Veronica
Yeah, you know we're.
00:19:02 Veronica
An elite group and like.
00:19:03 Veronica
A little bit of arrogance that that, that I.
00:19:05 Veronica
Wish I didn't because I was trying to fit in so much that I was trying to build.
00:19:08 Veronica
These different personalities.
00:19:09 Veronica
And things that I.
00:19:11 Veronica
Am really not because I.
00:19:12 Veronica
Was trying to still kind of find.
00:19:13 Veronica
Myself in the in the corporate world.
00:19:16 Veronica
And and fit into the mold.
00:19:17 Veronica
That they have versus.
00:19:19 Veronica
It was trying to.
00:19:19 Veronica
I was trying to be.
00:19:20 Veronica
More of a culture fit than.
00:19:21 Veronica
A culture ad which is which is.
00:19:24 Veronica
Something that I strive to do more these days.
00:19:26 Justin
In different groups I talk a lot about culture fit versus culture.
00:19:29 Justin
That and and the downside of the quote, culture fit, and so how?
00:19:38 Justin
Uh, all of that makes sense to me.
00:19:40 Justin
Kind of trying to fit into that world because you don't see anyone else.
00:19:44 Justin
That's that's like you in that world as you were sharing the story of kind of changing the way that you dress.
00:19:50 Justin
It makes me think of several years.
00:19:52 Justin
Ago, you know, when I was working in technology and software and, you know, alongside sales folks and everyone wore like the light blue or white button down shirts and khakis and brown shoes.
00:20:12 Justin
And and I just, I couldn't bring myself to like wear that that uniform.
00:20:17 Justin
And I think the uniform now is like, it's probably still a white or light blue button down, but you gotta add the Patagonia.
00:20:25 Veronica
Yes, the best for sure.
00:20:25 Justin
Vest right?
00:20:27 Veronica
Yes, I'm.
00:20:28 Veronica
I'm in tech now.
00:20:29 Veronica
Absolutely no.
00:20:31 Justin
But I I'm curious how you found your way, so you were.
00:20:37 Justin
What you just described as you were trying to fit in molding yourself, and there's this weird mix of minimizing right, like suppressing your authenticity so that you fit in.
00:20:48 Justin
But you were also flexing in this like a way you said kind of a way of overbearing.
00:20:56 Justin
But in an if inauthentic way, right, like trying to be something that you necessarily weren't, so I'd love to hear how.
00:21:05 Justin
How did you find your way from there to where you are today?
00:21:12 Veronica
I I think when you cannot find it in in the organization or at or even your school, right, your alumni group.
00:21:20 Veronica
Then you try to find sources outside that.
00:21:22 Veronica
So thankfully in in New York City I was able to meet Yai Vargas, who's the founder of the Latin ESTA, which is a women empowering empowerment group for women of color to try to help us, either with the right, you know, kind of like mid level, so that giving you the right resources or techniques or things to.
00:21:41 Veronica
To elevate yourself in in the in the workplace, but while also being yourself, you know, not trying to feel that bold.
00:21:47 Veronica
And she showed me that how she had, you know, her corporate career by starting started.
00:21:52 Veronica
This also group of like similar women you know of color that also wanted to succeed in corporate but also help those behind us that hey hopefully you when when you're my age you don't have to be the way you can be from.
00:22:07 Veronica
The beginning your own.
00:22:08 Veronica
Self and and and elevate the things that are necessary.
00:22:12 Veronica
Try to help those around you understand that.
00:22:15 Veronica
Differences are.
00:22:16 Veronica
But and and and again just seeking to understand versus judging.
00:22:20 Veronica
And I think I got the right tools.
00:22:22 Veronica
I also given just going back to my curiosity of meeting people and how they present themselves, I I got some great advice from her.
00:22:31 Veronica
But I also realize that sometimes it's it's also important to talk to.
00:22:36 Veronica
Different people, not necessarily ones that look from you like, but they understand you, right?
00:22:41 Veronica
So I I got some mentors that were actually allies, right.
00:22:45 Veronica
Like I was like, well, of course I can get a, you know, try to find that Latina VP, but there's not many. And she probably has a wait list of 5000 people.
00:22:54 Veronica
Right.
00:22:55 Veronica
Which was great.
00:22:56 Veronica
And I found some, but also was like I was like, let me find that Notre Dame alone, that it's, you know, white or female or but it's an ally, right?
00:23:05 Veronica
And that wants to elevate those of us that might be different than they understand, but also they might not know.
00:23:12 Veronica
But they're also curious.
00:23:13 Veronica
Right and and.
00:23:14 Veronica
Like I understand, you know, I read all these books, but I don't know what to.
00:23:17 Veronica
Do right, I'm.
00:23:19 Veronica
Like, well, let me help you because.
00:23:21 Veronica
No, I think we can help each other and and and just going through different having conversations like we're having today and seeing how we can help each other and and learning from other communities, I think little by little I just started sharing more about myself and feeling more comfortable.
00:23:36 Veronica
But also you know like seeing like how?
00:23:39 Veronica
Yeah, and other.
00:23:39 Veronica
Women like hey.
00:23:40 Veronica
It's OK if I want to wear my pink.
00:23:42 Veronica
Laser to work when everyone's wearing black in New York City.
00:23:45 Veronica
Why not?
00:23:46 Veronica
That's just who I am.
00:23:47 Veronica
And guess what?
00:23:48 Veronica
If you go to a networking event with 300 people, everyone's gonna remember the pink blazer versus. Ohh yeah.
00:23:54 Veronica
You were the girl wearing the pink blazer.
00:23:56 Veronica
Yeah, that was me, remember?
00:23:57 Veronica
Ohh yeah and.
00:23:57 Veronica
I also you.
00:23:58 Veronica
Asked a really good question.
00:23:59 Veronica
Thank you.
00:24:00 Veronica
Or or this or that versus ohh wait you want you were one of the ones.
00:24:04 Veronica
With the the black.
00:24:06 Veronica
So I think little by little in in getting comfortable being uncomfortable.
00:24:11 Veronica
I get just doing that, right.
00:24:12 Veronica
I'm gonna wear the big blazer.
00:24:14 Veronica
I'm going to raise my hand.
00:24:16 Veronica
I'm going to ask that alarm for to mentor me.
00:24:21 Veronica
Just little by little and I think that's why I also wanted to be in sales to push me because I used.
00:24:26 Veronica
To hate presenting believe or not.
00:24:27
I was like, oh, no, I'm.
00:24:28 Veronica
Really scared and.
00:24:29 Veronica
One day it she just went to, like, raise my own.
00:24:33 Veronica
And I was like, yeah, I'll volunteer for this presentation.
00:24:35 Veronica
And and I was extremely scared to death.
00:24:38 Veronica
But I think after the more you do it, the more comfortable you feel and and This is why I love having this conversation because hopefully it's also inspires others to do the same and be themselves.
00:24:48 Veronica
And and it's taking a long road.
00:24:50 Veronica
But also I think a little by little every new job.
00:24:53 Veronica
Every new opportunity I have or person.
00:24:56 Veronica
I meet.
00:24:56 Veronica
I try to either.
00:24:58 Veronica
Be more myself or elevate those.
00:24:59 Veronica
Around me and and and help.
00:25:01 Veronica
Them, you know, educate them and and meet them where they are also in their in their belonging journey because everyone is at a different level as we know.
00:25:10 Veronica
So I try to meet.
00:25:11 Veronica
Them where they are and provide at.
00:25:12 Veronica
Least one little nugget of of advice.
00:25:16 Justin
Yeah, OK.
00:25:17 Justin
So I grabbed 3 things in that number.
00:25:20 Justin
One was the pink blazer.
00:25:21 Justin
I love that.
00:25:24 Justin
And I there's the lesson there for me is that when we can lean into our authenticity.
00:25:32 Justin
And we differentiate ourselves through the and now it's just going to be the metaphor of the pink blazer.
00:25:39 Justin
We we become memorable and we become someone that people can latch on to and be either an inspiration or if you're in sales.
00:25:52 Justin
You want to be the one with the pink blazer so that people reach out to you first.
00:25:59 Justin
So I love that the second thing, there's so much power in.
00:26:06 Justin
Allies as mentorship and the the power there that excites me is that the mentor can learn.
00:26:19 Justin
Just as much, if not more, from their mentee in that scenario.
00:26:24 Justin
Because as you say, that mentor can understand from your perspective through your various identities, how you're seeing the world and and they get so much out of that.
00:26:39 Justin
And then can make better workplaces or better community.
00:26:42 Justin
Fees for the people that that they're with.
00:26:45 Justin
So I love that is the is there and you said it was through Notre Dame that you had found those kind of ally mentors, is that right?
00:26:57 Veronica
So I became involved in the Hispanic Alumni Board, which was semi new just to recruit more Hispanic students.
00:27:03 Veronica
Right to come to Notre Dame, but also through that group I just started, I think just not working before I even knew a lot of what that work man and just getting involved with the career development, what I was asking them to look at.
00:27:14 Veronica
My resume and things like that and.
00:27:16 Veronica
And then I was like, OK, well, I saw, you know, I noticed that, you know, so and so could you introduce me or even I think for?
00:27:22 Veronica
Me. It's just I've.
00:27:22 Veronica
Been back to every football game since I graduated.
00:27:26 Veronica
No matter where I live, like just one game a year and and that's where I would have that community.
00:27:31 Veronica
And that's where I felt I belonged.
00:27:33 Veronica
And I I think that was the first place in the US where I felt.
00:27:36 Veronica
I belong and your name?
00:27:38 Veronica
You know most of my second 30 year.
00:27:41 Veronica
Because it was like that family, they're like, oh, yeah, of course I'm gonna introduce you, Veronica, because I know you went to narrate.
00:27:47 Veronica
Doesn't matter your background or your experience, or where you're from, because I know you work hard to get here.
00:27:53 Veronica
So I know you're gonna work hard right to do the work.
00:27:56 Veronica
If I'm going to introduce you to this executive or to the to this job and and to be completely.
00:28:01 Veronica
I think like 80% of the jobs I got in throughout my career have been through my Notre Dame network, thankfully.
00:28:07 Veronica
And because I I think we're just is is that is there, you know the other it's it's a great situation but also the community and the willingness to help not.
00:28:09
Right.
00:28:16 Veronica
Just the world, but also each other has has definitely been in.
00:28:21 Veronica
It's very genuine so.
00:28:23 Veronica
So that's definitely how it got started and it pushed me to to do it outside our game as well and give.
00:28:29 Veronica
Back of course.
00:28:30 Justin
That's great.
00:28:31 Justin
That's great.
00:28:32 Justin
So that's something I I would just, I would encourage people to find those relationships.
00:28:36 Justin
You know if you if you're trying to understand other other identities or other marginalized communities, like see if there's ways to connect and get that kind of genuine allyship way.
00:28:37
OK.
00:28:51 Justin
The the third thing that I wanted to pull out of of kind of that last bit of the conversation was this idea of, and I don't think you use these words exactly, but it's a theme that was in one of my other recent guests on the podcast was the theme of.
00:29:05 Justin
Paying it forward.
00:29:07 Justin
That when we have and I just said it to someone else.
00:29:12 Justin
Earlier today that when we when those with marginalized identities.
00:29:18 Justin
Have the safety to show up fully authentically.
00:29:24 Justin
I think we have a responsibility to show up authentically, to be the representation for others and pay it forward for others.
00:29:33 Justin
And I've been, I've I.
00:29:35 Justin
I'm continuing to dig into the research and the work and.
00:29:38 Justin
Creating belonging and you know someday there will be a second edition of creating belonging that I'll add more research, but there's so much that keeps pointing me back to.
00:29:49 Justin
Do the importance and the value of authenticity, representation and paying that forward?
00:29:58 Veronica
And I think something key that you mentioned in your book that reminded me of all, some, some of the books that I also read that you mentioned like Brenet Brown and and being vulnerable and it's something that it was really hard for me at the beginning because I was trying to fit in.
00:30:12 Veronica
But also once I heard one person and even for me, you know, if even if I'm in a room of people that don't look like me, but just sharing that.
00:30:19 Veronica
And someone hearing another person with their accent sharing something that they might not be willing to share in a corporate environment, or seeing that it's OK, right, like it's OK if if you're burnt out at work, it's OK if that that doesn't mean that I'm not doing my job.
00:30:34 Veronica
It's OK if you take a day off or it's OK if.
00:30:36 Veronica
You see a therapist, so just being vulnerable.
00:30:39 Veronica
And sharing those things.
00:30:41 Veronica
The way others feel comfortable sharing it as well, and I think if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be.
00:30:45 Veronica
Able to to be there in that intersection cause I feel like sometimes I lean towards acceptance or authenticity and and I'm finally like being able to do both by being vulnerable and and and just trying to be myself and helping others.
00:30:59 Veronica
You know, if they can save all those years of my life that I tried to, you know, either minimize myself or being.
00:31:06 Veronica
Too overbearing or whatever it is.
00:31:07 Veronica
You know, if they can save themselves some years and just be themselves by seeing others doing the same, I think that's that's my way of paying it forward.
00:31:15 Veronica
But also inspiring.
00:31:16 Veronica
I always like to say I like.
00:31:17 Veronica
To inspire before I expire.
00:31:22 Justin
That's great.
00:31:23 Justin
That's great, Veronica.
00:31:24 Justin
Thank you for for being visible.
00:31:28 Justin
For others.
00:31:30 Justin
I think it's it's so important.
00:31:31 Justin
And the vulnerability is a key piece there.
00:31:35 Justin
And I think it's if there's vulnerability.
00:31:38 Justin
And then there's also the safety component and that's where I talk about it's not.
00:31:42 Justin
It's not bad to be in recluse.
00:31:43 Justin
Sometimes we have to be in recluse for our own safety, but when we can reach into vulnerability, when we can kind of be that representation, there's just so much value in it and we help so many people.
00:31:47
OK.
00:31:59 Justin
So that's great.
00:32:00 Justin
Well, Veronica, I've had a really great time speaking with you today.
00:32:04 Justin
I want to thank you so much for for being on the podcast.
00:32:09 Justin
But I also want to make sure one of the things I want to do is elevate the voices of the people that I'm that are on the podcast.
00:32:15 Justin
So I want to provide you an opportunity for, you know.
00:32:18 Justin
If people want to talk to you, reach out or you know, is there anything that we can help, you know, elevate for you that you would like to share with the community?
00:32:29 Veronica
Yeah, of course.
00:32:30 Veronica
I'm always willing to connect or or speak in.
00:32:35 Veronica
You know you can connect with me via LinkedIn.
00:32:37 Veronica
I'm very active.
00:32:38 Veronica
It's just Veronica Rivero.
00:32:40 Veronica
I'm there.
00:32:40 Veronica
And I think that's the the main medium.
00:32:43 Veronica
I like to use just to elevate others and and create that awareness. Also I I speak with certain ERG groups if you ever need a a speaker through to talk about their own.
00:32:55 Veronica
Journey and authenticity and navigating this whirlwind of the United States of America.
00:33:01 Veronica
I love to be part of it, and also you.
00:33:03 Veronica
You can follow me on Instagram.
00:33:06 Veronica
At Veronica under score Rivero, Rivero RIVERO. And that's another thing that earlier in my career I wouldn't correct people. And they called me Rivera.
00:33:15 Veronica
But I've learned to show up as myself and tell them that no, it's it's Rivera, vivano.
00:33:20 Veronica
So now I'm.
00:33:21 Veronica
Not afraid to.
00:33:22 Veronica
To do that, I encourage everyone else you know, like like the sign.
00:33:25 Veronica
They're around Chicago, they can say charcuterie.
00:33:28 Veronica
They can say your name.
00:33:33 Justin
That's great.
00:33:34 Justin
That's great.
00:33:35 Justin
Well, I will make sure that in the in the description of the podcast, I'll have a link to your LinkedIn profile so that people can connect with you.
00:33:42 Justin
A link to your your Instagram I we're connected on LinkedIn.
00:33:48 Justin
I'm not following on Instagram though, but I will be.
00:33:50 Justin
Later tonight.
00:33:51 Veronica
Keep an eye for Fajita peets Chicago so at Fajita Peach Chicago, it's coming.
00:33:56 Veronica
A small Tex Mex franchise comma.
00:33:58 Veronica
To we'll meet area later this year so that we keep an eye for.
00:34:02 Veronica
That as well.
00:34:04 Justin
Well, I'm definitely gonna check it out because I love Tex Max.
00:34:07 Justin
I hope like queso is involved, right?
00:34:11 Justin
Please tell me pesos involved.
00:34:12 Veronica
Ohh it's delicious.
00:34:14 Veronica
It's delicious.
00:34:14 Veronica
Get a free queso.
00:34:16 Justin
OK.
00:34:16 Justin
So Chicago, like there's no queso in Chicago, like, like Tex Mex queso is what I'm talking about.
00:34:27 Justin
So I'm gonna come just for the case.
00:34:29 Justin
So I'm so excited for that.
00:34:30 Justin
I've got some friends in well met.
00:34:31 Justin
So we'll make sure that I send them there, but yeah, we'll check out feed at Pete's.
00:34:35 Justin
I'm excited because I love Mexican and I love.
00:34:38 Justin
I love Tex Mex and I love queso, so.
00:34:41 Justin
Veronica, thank you again.
00:34:44 Veronica
Thank you, Justin.
00:34:45 Veronica
This was super fun and best of luck.
00:34:47 Veronica
I'd really enjoyed reading your book and hope to chat against.
00:34:50 Justin
Thank you.
