The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
Societal Expectations | Part 2
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How did the challenges of a tumultuous childhood lead to a journey of healing, finding purpose, and creating a sense of belonging? Join us as we pick back up our conversation with Britt Andreatta about her inspiring story, exploring the power of resilience and overcoming adversity through the comfort of her cats, academic success, and connecting with others who have faced similar struggles.
Discover the fascinating neuroscience behind exclusion and its impact on our well-being, including how even mild exclusion can activate the pain center of the brain and contribute to the opioid epidemic. Britt shares the importance of embracing vulnerability, authenticity, and creating authentic communities of belonging to combat these negative effects. Don't miss this eye-opening and inspiring conversation that delves into the journey of healing and finding purpose, with insights from Britt's own book, Wired to Become.
You can access a free chapter of Britt's new book, Wired to Become, here: https://www.brittandreatta.com/books/wired-to-become/
Find Britt on LinkedIn
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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So, another thing to know about my background my mom's mental illness meant that she couldn't keep a job. She couldn't keep a job, so she had borderline personality disorder, which means that she struggled a lot to have successful relationships. So, we moved every single year of my childhood. I never went to the same school twice and sometimes I moved in the middle of a school year. Sometimes I'd come home from school and the house would be packed and we'd be leaving that night and I didn't always know why. But I got very good at being friendly with people and then never feeling like I belonged anywhere. The only sense of belonging I had as a child was, honestly, with my cats. So, I am still a lifelong cat lover. They were my safe space. I feel like I was parented by my cat because they would be the one that would comfort me and make me feel safe, and so wherever we fed, the cat was home.
Britt Andreatta:As I moved to college and started leaving that unhealthy family system and started to see what other systems look like. Honestly, my first place of belonging was when I started doing some of this work around anti-racism and I got in with like the crowd on campus of student leaders and resident assistants where we were exploring these ideas. I actually felt a lot of kinship with people who'd been targeted for their identity, because I'd always felt attacked and unsafe in my childhood because of my mom. So, there was an understanding of navigating fear and navigating just being blamed for stuff that's not your fault. That made me really resonate with those communities. But then it was really painful as I learned that my own identity caused discomfort and the way I was raised caused discomfort. So, it was eye-opening as I had to unlearn some stuff and learn new things that were eye-opening.
Britt Andreatta:But I would say that was my first real place of belonging. I think then of course we all find kind of that tribe of people that get us, and we get them, and that's the group that I was on that trip with and we're still lifelong friends. And then as a professional, I definitely belonged in school. Living in my head and being smart was one of my survival tactics. So, I did really good in school environments. I knew the rules made sense at school and if I just followed the rules I would get good grades, very unlike my home where the rules changed constantly. So, I think academic world was another place. I felt very much like I belonged, hence why I have three degrees and made my way through That's-.
Justin Reinert:It all makes sense. .
Britt Andreatta:I mean, you've .undefined me for a long time, Justin. I feel like you're getting the whole background into why Britt is the way she is.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, yes, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Well, let's transition to your academic work. So that was a place that you belonged and that's then what really was the foundation of your career and has been for a long time. And now you've authored four books on the Neuroscience of Success, and so I would love to dig in. We've done a lot of research related to this topic of belonging, so I'm curious what you could share. What? how does it bump up against the model, the creating belonging model, that is?
Britt Andreatta:Yeah, it doesn't bump up against it. I think more than anything it reinforces it. There'd be a couple of things I'd wanna share. One is the brain science of exclusion and what happens when we feel excluded. So there's really profound and consistent research that even the neuroscientists were kind of blown away by, which is they wanted to study exclusion and so they put people in an MRI machine so they could start to understand what happens with the brain when we're being excluded. So, they created this mild exclusion experience where they put three or four people in MRI machines and they gave them an iPad or something like that and they were playing cyber ball with each other. But then it was set up so that eventually you got the ball stopped being thrown to you, but you could tell the other three people were playing, and so they did that round and around so that each person got excluded. I mean mild form of exclusion, right? So, the brain lit up, but what blew their minds was that the part of the brain that lit up was the pain center, where we feel physical pain, and so that led them to do a ton more studies. What happens if you're being excluded by someone you don't like? they had a whole bunch of African American participants be excluded by members of the Ku Klux Klan, still lit up the pain center. They had people who'd recently broken up talk about that journey of feeling rejected, lit up the pain center. So, the research is really clear that we experience exclusion the same way that we experience being hit neurologically. And this makes sense, right. We are a tribal species. We are designed for living and working together, that our chances of survival were much greater when we were in a tribe and a community. So, our brain is actually constantly kind of tracking where we are in the group and if we are seeing signs that we're getting marginalized or pushed to the edges, everything in our biology is saying get back in with the crowd because we won't survive if we're ousted. What was really fascinating was that the researchers who were studying this said huh, now that we have consistent, clear evidence that it's the pain center that's getting lit up, what happens if we give people painkillers? And they did everything from mild Advil and Tylenol to heavy duty OxyContin and it consistently unhooked that feeling of rejection. It unhooked that experience of exclusion, and I theorize that this is a big part of what's driving the opioid epidemic is that people are going on painkillers for legitimate injuries.
Britt Andreatta:You break your arm, it hurts. When you take a painkiller, it doesn't work at the arm, it works in the brain, disconnecting your sensation of pain until it wears off and then it starts to hurt again, you gotta take another pill. The problem is, while you're on that painkiller for your broken arm, you are getting an invisible, unspoken break from the social pain you have in your life, where you don't feel like you fit in with your family or in society or at your job. So, all of a sudden, you're getting this invisible medication and we don't talk about it. So then, when people are coming off of the pain meds because they're healed, all of a sudden, they're feeling all kinds of really distressing emotions, and so I think there's a real connection we need to look at there. So that's one piece of data that I would highlight. What are your thoughts about that? How does that resonate for you?
Justin Reinert:Yeah, I mean one of the things that it was making me think about, and I'm familiar with that research from our work together, one thing that is just popping up in my head now is that we see more, you know, abuse, drug abuse, addiction in marginalized communities.
Britt Andreatta:Yup.
Justin Reinert:And so, it makes sense, right, like that's what's happening there. It's, you know, it is that societal exclusion, the marginalization that then is causing individuals to become addicted to you know any array of things. So that's, yeah, that's the what's popping up in my head now.
Britt Andreatta:Yeah Well, the research on exclusion is really clear. Like your productivity goes down, your sleep goes down, you start to have, you start to struggle with your performance, you actually get sick more and then, because those feelings are so uncomfortable, there's a real, there's a real connection with self-medicating with drugs and alcohol. Right? So, that can lead to addiction and also a cycle of shame around that and then, over time, people you know, increased depression, increased anxiety and then much higher likelihoods of suicide. So, the data is super clear on it and that's why, you know, I think we all need to be focused on how do we create authentic communities of belonging where people can show up and be honored and respected for who they are.
Britt Andreatta:You don't have to be liked, you don't even have to be popular, it's just, you know, we let people be and then, they can find their own pockets of belonging. Everything that's happening right now with just targeting communities and banning ideas and regulating people's freedoms. It's just, you know, it's a last-ditch effort to try to control this thing that's already happening. We're becoming a more tolerant and welcoming society, but some of the people are real freaked out by that. So, there it's a last gasp of some really desperate measures to try to control that. Unfortunately, those measures are doing a lot of harm to people.
Justin Reinert:Yes, yes.
Britt Andreatta:The other thing I'd want to add is and the new book is out it's on purpose, it's the wire to become the brain science of finding your purpose, creating meaningful work and achieving your potential. But what was really interesting is that when people have a sense of purpose in their life, it tends to make them much more comfortable with diversity And they're much more accepting of others. And I think it's because if you're feeling fulfilled and you know you're on path in your own life, you just don't care what's happening in other people's lives. It's not threatening to you because you know you're doing your own thing. So, I think we want to focus on helping everyone feel like they belong and have fulfilling lives and are on purpose, because if folks have that, they're going to be less concerned with trying to go after other people.
Britt Andreatta:The second part of the research that's really interesting is when you're a marginalized community and you're on the receiving ends of stereotypes. So there's this whole body of research called the stereotype threat, which means when you know you're stereotyped in a negative way, it impacts you. You go into a room and you're more nervous because you know people are seeing you in that negative light and so performance tends to go down, anxiety tends to go up. People experience things as a result of being on the receiving end of negative stereotypes, but when they are reminded or supported and focusing on their own sense of purpose, it diminishes the impact of the harm. So, it creates a little bit of a shield to diminish the impact of the harm. So, we need to work on getting rid of that harm. But until we do, you know, places where we feel connected and where we belong, as well as when we have a sense of purpose, can help us navigate those really difficult situations. So, I think that's really powerful too.
Justin Reinert:I love that, okay. So on the first part that you were talking about, where, when we have a sense of purpose, our tolerance for diversity improves, yep, okay. So, something was hitting me and I'm curious if there's any relationship that you've seen. So, I know in your work you talk a lot about we as humans are wired to do three things in order survive, belong, become, and they have to come in that order. Well, I feel like purpose is it's that becoming piece, right, but when we're there, it then shepherds in belonging for others. I'm just there's, I'm wondering kind of in your research how that all kind of came together.
Britt Andreatta:Yeah, so. So two things survive, belong become is just kind of a shortened version of Maslow's hierarchy, right? Which is you don't have food or water today. That is going to be the most pressing thing, right? So it's really that you need to tend to your immediate survival needs. And once you can tend to your immediate survival needs, our next need is to feel like we belong, to have friends, to connect to a meaningful community. And we're not going to go you know, I'm not going to go hang out at a bar if I can't, or go do something fun If I don't even know if I can buy groceries today, right? So, it's just this immediacy of our survival. So physical survival first. Then we need belonging, we need to be part of a community, we need to be accepted for who we are. That's also tied to survival, because of that tribal thing that our chances of survival are greater when we live with others, back to kind of our old days living, you know, living on the plane, so to speak. If you were ousted by the tribe, your chances of getting eaten by the lion were much greater than when you were living with others.
Britt Andreatta:But our deepest need and it's not like it goes away while we're struggling with being able to eat or whatever. But our deepest need is to, we hunger to learn and grow and become our best selves. I think every person wants to achieve their potential, whatever that looks like, but we can put that on pause while we attend to these other things that are more immediate, because the minute those are somewhat satisfied, people want to live fulfilling lives. So, I think that that's really the strongest thread, and then sometimes we're pulled away from that because these other things become more pressing.
Britt Andreatta:But it's our deepest need to become who we're meant to be and feel like we're living a life of purpose, and this is why it's so up right now. I mean people hungering for more purpose and meaningful work is off the charts because we all just lived through a pandemic that not only put our mortality and sharp focus, but it gave us a lot of time to reflect on how we're spending our time and if we're in the right fit. And many people got a break from the toxic workplace and then were real strong like I don't want to go back there. That place didn't feel safe, so I'm going to go somewhere else. The great resignation, all of that. So, I don't think they're antithetical to each other. I think they're all related. It's just we sometimes have to stop our focus on one to attend to something else.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, I know I'm just thinking about can I like what if I? I don't know. I know there are individuals that you know, when they don't have community, when they don't have belonging, then channel everything into something You know, like they become high achievers in some area in a very isolated way, and I'm curious if that is like, is that real purpose and becoming or like I don't know, what are your thoughts on that?
Britt Andreatta:Well, I'm laughing because that's me, I mean.
Britt Andreatta:I definitely, no, it's true. I mean I definitely took a lot of my pain that I had not yet faced or even identified and channeled it into academic success. Like, and I realized now, as I started doing therapy and I started digging into some of my wounds, I realized, oh, my mom, I mean my mom literally would say things to me like she wished I actually had an abortion. No one would ever love me. I was a terrible person and I've forgiven her.
Britt Andreatta:She was mentally ill and didn't get the support she needs and, even worse, she was horribly abused as a child. She was sexually molested, Most of her child, by both her father and her brother. So that's a very common borderline personality is a very common response to that kind of trauma. But you know, she did the best she could. She was very unhealthy. She passed on some of that unhealthy to me and I had to do my own work around it. But, like for me, since I was getting all these negative messages at home, when a teacher was happy with me and that world made sense, boy that was that was super rewarding. I'm sure I was getting so much serotonin and dopamine at school.
Britt Andreatta:So I just got really good at doing that right. This is where I got messages that maybe I am a good person, maybe people do like me, maybe I am okay. But as I eventually got enough of that to counterbalance what was happening at home and of course I moved away from home then, as that healing work started to find some fullness of fruition to it, that then freed me up to not be so driven by it Like before it was probably an unhealthy drive to be accepted in that environment or to have that sense of purpose, and now that I'm feeling more fulfilled and complete and healed, that drive isn't so intense right. So now it could be more of a choice. So I don't think there's any clear example or clear answer.
Britt Andreatta:I always loved Brene Brown's work and she herself talked about her own journey to embracing her own vulnerability and authenticity. I think we're all on a journey of that, right? We all have things that we were taught as children. You don't get to adulthood without some scars and some wounds. Those scars and wounds just look different for each of us, but we share that journey. And then we all engage in behaviors to try to heal ourselves, and some of that's not very conscious, and addiction is also an attempt to heal yourself in a different way.
Justin Reinert:You gave me the answer I was looking for, though I am to please, justin, literally, I am to please.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, right. So no, you mentioned one thing, and it was, you know, in school you would go and you would do good work and then you would get praise. And I'm assuming that fulfilled that belonging need, like, oh, these are people that think I matter, right, yeah, and that becomes a you know a virtuous cycle, almost right? Where, oh, I'm getting validation. And maybe that's where that comes from, where we see those people that may have one area of their life that is, they don't have belonging, they don't feel comfortable, they find the path that gives them validation and reward, and so they do go up that survival and become path, but it's like a little jumbly and then it does work in order.
Britt Andreatta:Yeah, absolutely. I mean I used to say about myself that I was someone who loved school so much I never left. I mean, i did school and then I did undergrad, and then I did masters, and then I did a PhD, and then I worked at a university as a faculty member and as a dean for 20 years. I mean I stayed at that very safe world for a long time, but I, you know, when I finally was ready to leave, it was because I was finally healed and I, you know, I could move on. And also, I did a lot of work.
Britt Andreatta:What was interesting is, when I was in that world, all of my work focused on helping young adults transition into becoming their full selves. And so, I built freshman experience courses, I built leadership programs, but it all had a tone of how do we help you on your journey of individuating and healing and becoming who you want to be? So even then, I was healing myself through the work I was doing with others. Right, it's just, I think it's just fascinating that we hunger for that in conscious and unconscious ways. But that doesn't mean that the work that we're doing in that space is a wrong choice. In fact, it can be super beneficial to others.
Justin Reinert:Well, I mean. So, what a great moment to you know you recently released The Wire to Become Book about purpose and you know, I think you can point back to so many areas of your life that were on purpose for various reasons. So, what a fun, a fun book to have in your library.
Britt Andreatta:Yeah, for those of you who are interested in reading it, it's both a combination of the research on what we know about purpose and what it means to us neurologically, but it's also very much like a live journaling exercise.
Britt Andreatta:It's intended to give people tools and strategies and exercises to do to get more clear about their own sense of purpose. We don't just have one purpose and that's it. It's a journey of a lifetime and it's a journey of experiences that influence and shape the next part of the journey. I'm part way through my journey. I feel like I'm in a good place and my journey will continue, and other people are reflecting on where they are in theirs. I think it's a really good book for the times we are living in right now. I also want to say that some of the behavior I feel compelled to say this, when I look at what's happening in the world and we're seeing some of the actions of people that are creating an environment that's very harmful for others,
Britt Andreatta:they're finding belonging in that. People who identify a certain way politically or identify a certain way philosophically or with their religious values.
Britt Andreatta:They're also on their own journey to finding a sense of belonging and meaning, but somehow theirs is defined by taking it away from others. I think we need to be mindful of the fact that there's a journey of well, even all the things we've been talking about, the messages one is raised with, how it's defined for you to be a good person or a right person, and then the kinds of communities you end up being part of and what those communities are telling you or the way to behave. Belonging is a powerful thing and people who offer belonging through the act of harming others. That's what extremist groups engage in. They look for people who don't feel like they belong and they offer belonging, and then the act of belonging is often the act of harming others. I write about this in the Wired to Connect book and I think where we get in trouble is if we keep engaging in judging each other, we somehow don't get at the core issue that really needs to be resolved, which is folks need to feel respected and that there's a place for them.
Britt Andreatta:I hope that made sense, but I think it's important to talk about that, because we can keep making people bad and wrong and then they don't have a path back.
Justin Reinert:Yes, I've been on that journey for the past two years and really working on giving grace to those individuals in a way of like, okay, I understand that there is something that is pulling you into this and some biological need that's probably shifting you in this direction of harming others. Not that I want to be permissive of that, but I think, when we can approach those individuals more humanely, that we have a better way of connecting with them and bringing them back to being able to respect everyone and give everyone space, because there's room for us.
Britt Andreatta:Yes, there is room for everyone. And I think we just need to keep looking at that. How do we create space for everyone? not that there's one way versus another or one side's going to dominate another.
Justin Reinert:Britt, thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast. I loved it so much. Maybe we'll start another one. I don't know, we'll see. But just I wanna give you a moment to plug anything that you wanna plug. Obviously, the book Wired to Become where can people find it? or anything else that you wanna share.
Britt Andreatta:Yeah, great, so thank you. I've got four books on different topics. One's on how the brain learns, one is how we move through change, one is the whole connection of belonging exclusion piece, and then the last one, which just came out, is the one on becoming and purpose, and all of that. You can find my books wherever books are sold, so look there. You can also go to my website, which is just my name, brittandreatta. com. I love to connect with people on LinkedIn and then, if you are in a position of rolling out training or leadership development in your organization, I create science-based training solutions that have all of these principles and practices woven into the training, and we've seen organizations have amazing results using brain science approach to training. So those are all the ways folks can kind of see what I'm up to, and I love the idea of a podcast, Justin, let's talk more about that.
Justin Reinert:All right, let's do it Well, Britt. Thank you so much. Britt is the final kind of like regular guest on this season, and so in one week, I believe, we will be doing a LinkedIn live where I will have a handful of past guests from this season just to talk about our experiences, our conversations, bring everyone together, and then that LinkedIn live will become the final episode of this season of the Creating Billing and Podcast. So, thank you all for tuning in, Britt. Thank you for joining me today and hope to see you all soon.
Britt Andreatta:Thank you, Justin. I love this podcast. I'm so glad you've been doing it.
Justin Reinert:Thank you.
