The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
Representation, Authenticity, and Society
Let us know what you think of this podcast!
Ever wondered what it truly means to belong and be authentic at work? Let's unpack this together! In our season finale, we bring back Veronica Rivero, Lauren Glazin, and Britt Andreatta where we uncovered the nuances of the Creating Belonging model and its four different areas. Veronica shared her perspective on how authenticity can change and evolve in the workplace, depending on the environment and people around us.
From there, we turned our attention to the Crown Act, unraveling how it’s dismantling discrimination based on hair texture and hairstyle, and its significance in affirming identity. We pondered over the power of representation and how it allows us to channel our authenticity unapologetically. We even heard a powerful anecdote about reclaiming an identity as a widow, illustrating the importance and complexities of individual identities.
In dissecting the relationship between representation and authenticity, we acknowledged the media's critical role in shaping this dynamic and our perceptions. We discussed societal expectations, the struggles we face in trying to conform to them, and the importance of confronting our own battles to truly discover our desires. Stay tuned as we redefine what authenticity and belonging at the workplace mean and continue this incredible journey of discovery and understanding.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
Music:
Wave by Helkimer | https://soundcloud.com/helkimer
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution 3.0 Unported License (CC BY 3.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en_US
Welcome to the season finale of the Creating Belonging podcast. Let's make sure I'm looking at the right camera here. Hello, hello and welcome. I've got a few guests from our past episodes. We've got our LinkedIn live going and I'm going to see if I can figure out where to see some Q and A, there go. See, I've got people chatting, so I'm going to pay attention to the chat over here and, as you've got Q&A, would love to hear any questions that you all have and we'll answer those. Bring those into the conversation. But to get us started, right here next to me I have the Creating Belonging model.
Justin:I understand that we may have some people who are new to the work today joining us on this LinkedIn live, and so I want to give a quick overview of the Creating Belonging model, just so people understand what the heck are we talking about. So a year ago, I published my first book titled Creating Belonging, and it describes how belonging is created at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. And so we start with a Venn diagram, like all great models, and then we move that out into a quadrant where we have authenticity on the vertical axis and acceptance on the horizontal axis, and that gives us four different areas within this Creating Belonging model that we might experience ourselves being in in the different communities or workplaces, the different places where we are, and so down in the lower left-hand corner we've got when we're low on authenticity, when we're low on acceptance that's what we call that we're in reckless, where we are really not showing up with much of ourselves and we're really not engaging with the people in that community. Thing about reckless, it's not a bad place to be. It is absolutely OK to be in reckless if we need to be there for safety reasons.
Justin:However, ideally we have people moving into belonging when we're high on authenticity, low on acceptance. That's what we call overbearing, where we aren't really appreciating or respecting others, and it's where I say privilege lives, where we've got some blinders on and our assumptions about what the rest of the world understands. If we go to the opposite end of the spectrum, when we're high on acceptance and low on authenticity, it's what I call minimizing. This is where we are muting aspects of ourselves to make other people comfortable with our presence. But if we've got the right balance of authenticity and acceptance, we get to move into belonging, also understanding that we navigate around this model on a regular basis every day, and so you're not in one place all the time in the different communities you're in. We move around, but the ideal is that we're moving into a higher place of belonging.
Justin:So I have with me today a few of our podcast guests to just have a discussion about their experiences on the podcast and bringing some of that into this bigger conversation and excited to be doing it live. So I'm going to go in order of podcast episode release, and so first I'm going to introduce Veronica Rivero. Veronica Rivero lives here in Chicago, and I'm most excited, Veronica for the restaurant that you're opening, because I love queso. Veronica do you want to?
Justin:just give a 30 second intro?
Veronica:Yeah, of course. Hi, I'm Veronica. I'm born and raised in Lima, Peru. I lived all over the US, from New York City to most recently, Chicago, and I am part-time tech sales and part-time interpreter, opening a Tex-Mex restaurant in the suburbs of Chicago later this fall. So follow us chicagotexmexcom.
Justin:Yes, I'm excited for queso. We don't do queso well in Chicago, so oh, can't wait for you to try it. And then up next we had our sixth episode, which was a two-parter, with Lauren Glazen, and I love the title of this one titled Blonde Ambition. So Blonde Identity. Sorry, a play on Blonde Ambition. Blonde Identity, Lauren, would you mind introducing yourself?
Lauren:Yeah, both of them work, so it doesn't matter. Yeah, I'm Lauren. I am living in New York City, working learning and development. Used to work with Justin, and originally from the UK, from London, but in America 10 years now. And, yeah, happy to be here. Thank you for including me.
Justin:Yeah, thank you, Lauren. And then our most recent guest on the podcast. We actually dropped the second half of her episode. This morning at 7 AM we have Dr Britt Andreatta. Britt, would you like to introduce yourself?
Britt:Yes, thanks, Justin, and lovely to connect with everyone who's listening today. I am Britt, I create brain science-based solutions and I write books on the brain science of success. So I'm a geek, I love to geek out on all that kind of stuff, but I'm also in training and development. So moving some of those best practices into corporations around the world, and I grew up in Colorado and then moved all over the United States. I went to many different high schools and landed and am currently in California.
Justin:Awesome. Thank you, Britt. Thank you, and, by the way, I don't know if you noticed, I have your books behind me next to my book.
Britt:Thank you.
Justin:So I guess, to get us started, I want to dive right in and I'm just curious, since your episodes have been released. I'm curious what conversations you've had with folks. Veronica, you have the most listeners on your podcast, so I'll bet you had some conversations since it was released. What are some of those things that have come up?
Veronica:Yes, I think overall, something that came up is just bringing your authentic self at work and how that varies on, number one, where you work, who you work with and if you work for a corporate or non-profit, and also something along the lines of redefining professionalism.
Veronica:I think that when I graduated college over 15 years ago, my first job being professional, what does it mean?
Veronica:It's wearing a suit, getting my hair straightened up and proper makeup and skirt length and all that. And now that has changed a little bit, now that the first half of my career was in corporate, second half more tech or small startups and that has evolved. I feel like I'm more comfortable personally and some of the friends and people that listened to the episode, talked to me about hey, I'm in software sales I just love. I've always wanted to dye my hair blue and I'm going to dye my hair blue and people don't care in tech because I'm doing fantastic work. Or I'm going to put my pride flag because this is who I am on my desk and represent myself, or just being able to wear what you want, also follow your company's guidelines, at the same time also being able to be your authentic self and help others, be more vulnerable and help others do the same. Inspire others to bring their authentic selves to work and redefine what being a professional means.
Justin:Yeah, the title of Veronica's episode was the Pink Blazer. We talked about wearing the Pink Blazer at work, which I love and that I think expression authenticity, expression, the way that we dress has come up in several conversations. When it comes to gender identity, we spoke with Vanessa Sheridan about her journey as a trans individual and how clothing becomes a part of our identity, and we also talked about hair with Kendra, because not everyone has typical straight hair. Some people have different textures of hair but quote, professional standards aren't always cognizant of that. I'm curious, Lauren or Britt, if you have anything to add and into that.
Britt:Well, I was going to say you know, the Crown Act is really important because for so long people of color have really been ostracized for hair texture and hairstyle and I can't think of anything more demeaning every day than knowing that how God made you is not acceptable, like, is not okay, and having to spend a lot of time and energy and money on that and even face criticism and even punishment for not adhering to those standards. So I think everyone needs to be paying attention to the Crown Act and what it does to even the playing field and try to undo some of that discrimination. So I'm glad you brought that up because I think we all need to be able to show up as we really are. And you know, speaking as a white woman, I have so much privilege around that I don't have to think about that and yet so many people. It's a daily part of how they have to armor up to go into work and do their jobs.
Justin:Yeah, you know, Britt, some people, some listeners, might not be familiar with the Crown Act. Do you have like a 30 second, 30 second synopsis of what that is?
Britt:It's legislation, so I don't have all the details on it, but it's basically legislation that that says physical appearance, and particularly hair, can not be used to discriminate you. So it's really trying to undo the unspoken discrimination or often, very times, blatant discrimination that is done around hair texture and hairstyle. I'm wondering, Veronica or Lauren, if you know a little bit more about it. I've been following it enough to know that it's super important but, like I don't know some of the specific details of it, but I know it's been, it's been moving through the legislation process.
Lauren:No, I. You've been teaching me the last five minutes about it, so I appreciate that.
Justin:Yeah, I'm. I'm not familiar with that either, so I'm glad you brought it up because it's definitely something to pay attention to. Well, speaking of hair, The Blonde Identity, I'm curious, your thoughts on this kind of representation of, you know, appearance?
Lauren:Yeah, it's, it's a really good question and it's something that, again, I used to think about a lot, especially the company that we worked together in Justin was much more buttoned up and then I transitioned to, you know, work in tech companies and I felt so much more myself being able to dress more sort of like androgynous or just like however, however, I wanted to show up that . So it was, it's,
Lauren:it's interesting and actually like there's comments that where I grew up in England everyone wears a school uniform. It's mandatory. There's no like it's very like America and like TV show for us to be like, oh, like, kids are not wearing uniforms, and so everywhere in the UK I mean most of Europe, honestly but I wore a, yeah, same in Peru, yeah. I wore a school uniform every single day of my life, and now I talk to my wife about it and we have like discussions about all the time about like where, where will our kids go to school, and like things like that. And I'm adamant, I don't want them to wear school uniforms because I feel like it sucks so much my personality out of me. And but then there's obviously those like the coin, where you know, like how the kids dress and is it appropriate and things like that.
Lauren:But I'm a bit of a free spirit so I really I like being able to sort of dress and wear my hair. Like you know, this is not particularly professional. I was in the office this morning and like it's all good. So, and to answer the other question, Justin, about like what conversations have we been having it's funny I a few of my friends have been listening to the podcast and they're like whoa, like I didn't know that and so I don't know the conversations that I've been having a more around people that I've like pushed to the podcast and like learning you know more about me and it's interesting to like see what people pick up to pick up on and the things that maybe I don't even like bother to share because, like I think they're like mundane but actually people find them interesting. So that's been cool to see how that unfolds.
Justin:Yeah, I love,
Justin:I love the vulnerability that we've been having in the conversations, because I think it's important to have that you know, ability to share, you know just all the various aspects of our identity and even the ones that the people we interact with on a regular basis, things that they may not know, and it makes me think of.
Justin:I want to share a story. A couple of weeks ago, I was speaking at a conference in Raleigh and on creating belonging, and one of the participants, who you know works in our realm of talent development and you know is used to having those conversations around authenticity and being open and being vulnerable, and she said that she had this big aha moment when there was an individual that she was in a you know, a classroom with and he said that he was a younger widow like early twenties widow and it made her realize. She thought about that and she realized that she never talked about the fact that she was a widow because she didn't want to give that kind of you know, bring up a potentially negative subject for others or make others feel bad, and so she started to think about leaning into that and reclaiming that as an identity because it still is something that's a part of her. I'm curious if that story sparks anything for anyone.
Britt:I mean for me. Yeah, I mean I think about so many of us have have delved into the world of diversity and inclusion, training and this idea of the iceberg right? Like that. there's certain parts of our identity that people can see about us, and then there's the parts of our identity that we share, and then there's a whole bunch. Most of our identity is under the waterline, right. All these things that we've lived through being a child divorce, what your economic status was, what your native language was, was Do do you have a mental or physical challenge that you live through or work with? Are you a survivor of something? I mean there's so many pieces of our identity that we don't share or can't share, or too busy to share, or there's consequences for sharing right, and I always think about.
Britt:I remember my own journey around, just went off to college totally privileged white kid and then learned a lot of stuff and had a lot of those blinders taken off and I know for myself. remember someone saying I said, oh, I don't know how many, I don't know any gay people in my life. This was before I even identified as bisexuals, even identify myself as one. But I remember this person saying, no, you do you actually have a lot of gay people in your life. You just haven't let them know that you're safe to be around yet, they don't know that you're safe to come out to yet, and that really shifted my perspective around.
Britt:Oh, if I'm going to, you know, understand the role that privilege has, it also means that people will not be their authentic selves around me unless I am consistently and persistently giving signs that I have some awareness around this.
Britt:And it really shifted how I talked about things and how I used my language to create openings for other people to see a little bit more of who I am and also to create that sense of safety that maybe they could share more with me. And sure enough, once I did that, it was amazing how many people in my life were gay or who had experienced different things, or people of color who, seeing those markers in my language and behavior, felt more comfortable telling me the authentic truth of their lives and their experiences. So I think that this whole journey is is our own journey around our own identity, but it's also around seeing how and where we are safe to be because not just ski to be vulnerable if there's not some indicator of safety. People have died for not, you know, for sharing who they authentically are, and so I think that level of like we always need to be mindful of. That's the reality. People get hurt, people are killed around some of these topics.
Justin:It's also important to recognize that being able to not disclose parts of our identity is also privilege, right, because there are others who have marginalized identities that they're, they can't hide them. You know, if we think about race, disability, right, like just someone's mere presence says something about them. Veronica, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that.
Veronica:Yeah, I think actually just to offer a little side of the coin for what Lauren said about the uniforms, I think that for me personally, growing up in an all girls Catholic school, extremely conservative, to your point bread about like I didn't know any of my friends you know they were gay or not, but I think the uniform, the reason why I like that, was because out of the bad we were all the same in the way of like, hey, even if you are richer or poor, middle, we all wear the same uniform. We're all come in in in a in a way I was.
Veronica:I would love to see that, like when I'm interviewing for jobs or in different ways, it's like, oh no, the first thing people here is my accent. Or like, oh, she's not going to be doing this or that. Instead of having that unconscious bias in a way, I think that's kind of like a first step of like we're all starting from an equal playing field but also, you know, in small pockets of groups being able to create that open environment of belonging. Right, I'm telling some of my friends like hey, you know I'm I'm struggling with these things. Or like when someone one of my girlfriends came out and saying that you know, I like girls and I'm like, okay, that's great, I'm here for you. That doesn't affect how I feel about you or anything about our friendship.
Veronica:So what, I'm new to this, you know because of where we grew up. But educate me, teach me, let's talk about it and your secret safe with me until you're ready. So so kind of started from that same playing field, but taking it to the next level, and I mean I do like you know wearing my blazer and all that but in certain situations I do feel like starting from the same playing field just helps with that unconscious bias. And then you got to build those smaller pockets of groups where you can be vulnerable and help others also open up about themselves and the ways they think and how we can help each other.
Justin:Yeah, there's an interesting balance there of how do we level the playing field. At the same time, how do we lean into our authenticity. And it makes me think of one of the biggest themes that and I think we've been edging around this a little bit one of the biggest themes that came out of many of the discussions in the podcast was the concept of representation, because I think that when the more we have representation of various identities, it does start to, I hate this word, but normalize those identities in a way that starts to level the playing field. And so I want to dive into that topic a little bit and I'm curious if any of you have an example and maybe we've already talked about it, so you know another example of representation, how representation has helped you lean into your authenticity.
Lauren:I think I have ways where it's helped and ways where, like, obviously lack of it is, you know, hindered. I think I talk about this a lot and actually, as I work in L and D on the side, I'm also becoming a therapist and marriage and family therapist, so the work kind of intertwines there and it's so interesting to see sort of behavioral science in that way and and how systemic you know how family systems work and then corporate systems work and all of the things that come with it. But for me, like, as I've been thinking about this and I think about me and my wife and you know, if we start a family and things like that and like what, what lesbians like do I see that have a family and sort of like the life, that heteronormative like standards shoot, you know, shoot to, to like aim towards and like you know what I mean by that is we. This is a pretty heteronormative world and I can think of like Ellen DeGeneres maybe, or like, like Abby Wambach and Glennon Doyle, but I don't have thousands of examples of like people who are doing the thing that like we're trying to do and there's not like years of, you know, hundreds of years of different people. You know, the world's been around for what 10,000 years or something and we're living in the last eight years where gay marriage is legal and so it's. It's a really interesting time for us. It feels like yeah, yeah, like whatever it's been legal and like that fights over or whatever. But it's just even eight years out of like thousands of years and I I find representation really important and actually I don't recall if I mentioned this.
Lauren:But, Justin, you and I had a conversation. I was struggling to come out when, when you became my boss and people at work did not know, and we had a conversation, and you looked at me and you were like honey, like I can never go back into the closet, like I, you know, like I just I couldn't, I couldn't pretend, even if my life like depended on it, and I was like I hope someday to get to that point where like and I say that I rip off your line, Justin, I take it all the time because I'm like I'm now that point where I'm like I am so gay like I don't even like I want to like have uncomfortable conversations, like you know, bring it on and and I'm not obnoxious about it anymore. I've written that in a bit, Justin, in the last four years, but like it's more so. Like, yeah, just in a helpful way, like trying to represent the things that I know, you know, I know about. So other people feel comfort and that's. That's all we can really do, I think. So that was my soapbox.
Britt:I want to add to that. Being in work, where I am always creating presentations for other people, I always think a lot about representation in things that we create. So, for example, I'm very intentional every time I give a keynote speech or in my books is that I am making sure that the photos that I choose are really representative, and I'll actually go back and like make sure, do I have people of different ages, have I really represented different backgrounds and life experiences? And I think it's really important. And I just did a talk for a major, major global financial company just a couple months ago and one of the members of the audience looked me up and emailed me and said thank you so much for having a picture of a woman in the headscarf in your deck. She said it's the first time I felt myself represented. And she said for me, the headscarf is a very important symbol of my identity. I am very proud of it.
Britt:I know people have judgment around it, but I loved the way that I could see myself in your presentation and the fact that it moved her to the point where she looked me up and sent me an email afterwards, just confirmed that we're all hungering to be seen and when someone takes the time to make sure that you know that there's representation. Now the other thing that we have to caution against is it can't be fake representation, right? We can't have all these amazing photos on the company website and nobody actually looks like that in the company, right? So it's a commitment to the reality of representing the real diversity of all this beautiful humanity, both in our workers and our customers and our executives. You know we've got a long way to go in the C suite to have equal representation. I think it really matters for all of us and we also play a role in creating that for other people, in whatever ways that we work or live in our in our neighborhoods.
Veronica:Absolutely.
Veronica:I think something I like to add to that is that whenever you know I've hired people in the past and working for corporate or just even being the only Latina or woman in the group, because in tech we also don't have many women or Latinas. I like to just start, you know, by pre phrasing like let's before you look at this resume is before you get anything or don't understand a name. Let's seek to understand, not to judge, you know. Or sometimes I mean I've done this experiment in the past where, like I, just take out the names right in the resumes and just give them based on their experience, and so they can add you know, we all have unconscious biases that we're all working on so they can just base on the experience, the different things, commonalities or work you know, so that have that playing field, kind of like wearing that uniform again, but also go from there and maybe talk to someone that you've never talked to before, or just try to expand your thinking and in the way you approach your view of the world and your own job.
Justin:Thank you. Thank you. One thing for for our live listeners, I am paying attention to chat over here, so if you have any questions, feel free to pop those in and we'll bring that into the conversation. But I wanted to summarize one thing that I heard and this came, I think, really from both Lauren and Britt was the understanding of the impact that you can have on others in representation that may seem inconsequential to you, right, like Lauren, I remember sitting and having that conversation, but I don't remember that quote.
Justin:I love that you do and you know, for, for Britt, what seems, you know, while intentional, you had such an impact on someone.
Justin:And so just, I think, keeping in mind that we all have elements where we can infuse different types of representation into our interactions with people, keeping that, keeping that, you know, front of mind to help them. I mean, I know that and I do know, Lauren, that you know, back then I was absolutely like my mission was I'm out of the closet and I'm never going back in. Because you know, as that the story that I start a lot of things with. You know, I once had a boss who said you know, you're too open with your sexuality, when I wasn't actually at all at the time, and so I never want to be in that situation again, and I know that being representation others will do that. I want to transition a little bit to talk about the relationship then between representation and authenticity, and I'm curious if you have any thoughts about kind of the the you know, because the this is a big theme that's come up. Representation and authenticity, I think, create a virtuous cycle. I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
Britt:I absolutely agree and I'm reminded of Dr B Brown's work on vulnerability and shame and courage and she talks about vulnerability is our greatest measure of courage. Right, because when we engage in an act of vulnerability, it's a risk. We are, we are opening ourselves up for potential judgment, potential discrimination, potential positive experiences, but we don't necessarily know how it's going to turn out right. And and yet it's, it's such a courageous act and I think when I think about representation, what I see is a lot of really courageous people who are willing to go first, even though super risky. So I think about the Ellen story. You know, Ellen came out publicly. It did not go well, like she lost her job, she lost her following, she received death threats, like she is an example of someone who really broke that barrier and now, I think, is seen as the hero she always was all along, but at the same time it was very damaging. So I think a lot of people who saw what happened to her said I'm going to stay in the closet a little bit longer that that didn't go well and at the same time, her, along with many other brave souls who were, who were taking the risk to come out, now create an environment where we have a lot more representation in media.
Britt:I think media plays a significant role.
Britt:I think TV producers and movie producers have some of the most powerful opportunities to show us reality and then make people more comfortable.
Britt:I think about now how many men I see kissing in TV shows and movies and that would have never been seen 10 years ago. And, yeah, some people are going to be super uncomfortable with it because it's the first time they've ever seen it. But after you see a few you're like, okay, a kiss is a kiss, whatever, and we can really desensitize people to some of their, their judgments or beliefs that they have through representation. So representation is super, super powerful both ways. We also over represent African Americans in media as criminals and so if you, if and there's studies on this in terms of like, how they represent 90 per I'm making this statistic up, but it's a really high number around African actors, african American actors or black actors, and how they are put in roles that have a criminal nature to them, and then that feeds the stereotype that people perceive when they consume that media. So we have to be super careful with representation because it can be helpful or it can be hurtful.
Justin:Yeah yeah sorry, Lauren.
Lauren:And I was just going to say that I think it's. I think it's really hard to be authentic without representing something. Like, I don't even know if it's always like so front of mind for people to be. You know, I'm just talking about like everyday life, right. When I'm standing up there, I'm giving a training to people and I'm saying things or I'm listening in a certain way or asking certain questions like this, and I'm being authentic. I feel like I'm probably representing different, you know different things, or people are using their own perspective to sort of figure out what, you know, what that means for them. Because it's sort of personal, isn't it, like, if I see you being authentic Justin, that to me could represent like, you're an American and you're being you know. But for you, you think well I'm coming across like as a man and
Lauren:being, I'm representing like men that they can listen or whatever. So I don't know, I think it's like. I think it's definitely like an introspective understanding and like sometimes I think I'm being super authentic and someone's like what you were like acting up then and I'm like what's I? So I don't know, I can get in my own head and go for days on the spiral. But yeah, hopefully I'm making some sense.
Justin:I think there's part of it, you know I go back to. You know the, there's a story that I tell about an executive that I worked with that didn't like the idea of authenticity, because he would say well, if someone's an asshole, then that just gives them permission to be authentically an asshole. But I don't think that's what authenticity is. I think that authenticity should be much more intentional, like we do just show up right as ourselves every day, some parts good, some parts not so good. For me, the idea of authenticity is really understanding who do we want to show up as in the world and being a little more intentional with that. Because there is, you know, there are probably things that I'm representing on a daily basis, intentionally and unintentionally, and some that you know I may not want to show up as unintentionally. Yeah, it's, I think there's. I want to marry the intentionality into authenticity.
Veronica:I think it's a balance which we're all trying to figure out, like like, Lauren, you said sometimes. You know, when I first moved to the US, I was 18 and I was trying to get rid of this accident because I'm such a perfectionist, right. So I'm like why can I speak perfect English? I would meet people at college and our name, which I was part of, the 1% not 1% rich, 1% Hispanic and I was, you know they will be like I love your accent. I would be like, oh, I hate it. Okay.
Veronica:And then I realized, like, so I shift my mindset on that and then made it my mission to help others that are also immigrants or international students to like now, when I meet someone that has an accent and goes through the same things that I go through, I help them with frame like hey and if I meet someone that has an accent, automatically think that they speak maybe another language or they're just smart or they have world experience, right?
Veronica:So I try to help them see it that way, so that they're also proud of where they came from and from their accent. But also, sometimes we can overdo it, right, I can go to just like hey, Latinos, just Latino women, and we all are, haha, rara. But guess what? We're still underrepresented in the C suite in tech, not just Latinos, you know, African Americans, LGBTQ world underrepresented in the C suite. So we still got to you know, whole leadership accountable for find those allies that understand what we're going through but also want to champion. Not just us being surrounded by others that are just like us, right like we got to help each other, elevate each other and fight that balance of being our authentic self, but also help others that are not like us understand why it's important to bring that representation.
Justin:And, Veronica, you make me think of another concept that came up that I want to talk about, because you had mentioned and I think you talked about this in your original episode to which was, you know, when you move to the states, you were really trying to diminish your accent and then, over time, you kind of grew into your own acceptance and comfort with it and realizing that you know it is a part of you that you don't want to be ashamed of. And so the that leads me into thinking about some of the conversations that I've had around society's expectations of us and how we, you know, try to get ourselves to fit into those expectations, and essentially what we're talking about is minimizing right. So how are we kind of pulling in our own authenticity to be what other people want, or what we're told other people want? What thoughts do you have on that?
Britt:I mean you and I spent a good chunk of our podcast talking about just my journey as being a girl and then a woman and being socialized really early on that my body would be sexualized whether I wanted it to be or not. And all the message I've received around needing to dress to attract a man and, at the same time, be careful and always check the backseat of your car, and it's always this double-edged sword of the goal is to be sexual and attract someone, but don't do it too much or else you're going to get a bunch of bad stuff happen to you and it's very confusing. It's a very confusing journey around that. So I think that who you're supposed to be, to whom and when can sometimes be a moving target, and the very thing that is complimented is turned around and used to attack. And I think that and I just have that experience around gender I know that racial identity and sexual orientation and all these other aspects of identity are even doubly confusing. So just I'm struck by we all grow up being told by people around us how we should be and what the pros and cons are of that, and then we have our lived experiences and then we've got media.
Britt:It's very confusing and it's hard to unlearn that stuff, and I shared with Justin that I find myself thinking in my head things that my mom said to me that when I hear them in my head I go, oh my God, because I have a daughter now, and I find myself wanting to pass on those messages. And then I'm like, wait, no, that's not a message I want to pass on, but it's amazing how quickly that voice is in my head. Men won't like that, don't do that, because that men will be threatened by it. And it's just kind of. It's scary the level of brainwashing you have to intentionally be aware of so that you don't pass it on unconsciously.
Justin:You make me think of a TikTok I just saw yesterday that was of like. You know, this mock thing of like mothers in the 70s having a meeting and talking about what are all the lies they can tell their children to to scare them. That very much shaped us as Gen X and millennials. Well, Lauren, I'm going to pick on you because I know I can. When it comes to societal expectations, I know one of the things that we talked about and it was almost this trite statement that I said was you know how you came to the States to find your freedom? In that I assume there are some societal expectations that you may have been escaping, or you know? I don't know. I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm curious you know what your thoughts are on that and your societal expectations, and then how that you know your identities?
Lauren:Yeah, I think, I don't know.
Lauren:I think the societal expectations cross borders, so I may be trying to like escape from it in some ways, from England, and being like in like a pretty tight knit Jewish community where things are expected of you at certain ages and you know anything other than that is deemed like not successful pretty much. And still I find myself having these conversations with my parents where or you know other parents where they're like they just you know like success is like being married to someone of the opposite sex, maybe of the same sex now, and maybe that's that's like entered the conversation like some kids, like a good job, owning a house. I'm just like I don't know if that's how I define success at this point. And it can be like pretty lonely because like when your whole family or like when your whole community thinks that like that's what success is, you can feel like kind of crazy and thinking like well, maybe I don't want to be in a marriage with just two people or maybe I don't want to be, you know, maybe I never want to own a house, or maybe you know I want to move every five years or something, and it's like anything outside of like was deemed society societally, you know, successful is can be pretty isolating, so I wonder how much society pushes us on the journey, you know, on, like, like a lazy river. It just like it just makes us do the things that everyone else does.
Lauren:And yeah, I don't know, I think that, like the therapy school and like the L and D staff, and just having to like face my own demons and battles and coming out, and things like that, they just make you think like, what do you really want? And I don't know. Does anyone know? Like, like, does anyone have the answers? So I don't know.
Veronica:Yeah, I think you brought up a good point on. You know, everyone has their own definition of success, right? And I think we all grew up with for me too, you know, Latina, you gotta be a housewife and get married by 25 and all that. I was like 25, I don't even know what I want to do with my life at that age. And I was living in New York City at the time and I think this is why I love big cities too, because they're a little bit more open, not where we all would love to be.
Veronica:But also I saw people that look like me, that I saw representation in my food and certain let's see level executive and people from all backgrounds and I learned so much so I did love that. But also like, hey, I don't want a house, some people want the white picket fence, others want the white picket penthouse. You know, like it's, it's what you want, it's different, and some people want kids, so they don't. I mean, there's always going to be, unfortunately, people that will judge us if we don't fit within their mold. But again, just trying to understand and maybe just coming up front and saying, hey, this is my definition of success. It might not be yours, but I'm really happy who I am, what I'm doing, and hopefully you can be happy for me and for others that have chosen this path as well.
Justin:Thank you. Well, so I'm just looking at the time and I know that this is eventually going to turn into a podcast that people are going to listen to and will probably just release this whole chunk as one. So I want to start to wrap up the conversation. I don't see any questions coming in in the chat online, and so I want to thank everyone for your participation in the Creating Belonging podcast this season. It was very much an experiment in can I launch a podcast? I did Today was an experiment in can I do a LinkedIn live? The answer is yes, so I want to thank you all, but I want to just see if anyone has any closing thoughts or words they want to share.
Lauren:No, I'm proud of you. I think this was awesome and what a great experiment, and it was successful in my eyes.
Justin:So thank you, Lauren.
Britt:I want to say that I really value the model you created. I think it just has there's such a depth and richness there that really allows these conversations to come forward in a non-threatening, exploratory way, and I think everybody can find themselves on the model and also see that they've been in all four quadrants at various times around different parts of their identity. So if folks haven't read the book yet, I encourage you to pick it up. I think it's really great and I think it's a great way to open up some of these conversations with people at work and in your family and just start to kind of explore how are each of us on that model and how do we feel like we are authentic in our lives and where are we maybe missing some of that? I think that's a great thing for us all to explore.
Veronica:Yes, thank you, Justine.
Veronica:Thank you first of all for creating a safe space for us to be ourselves, to share our stories, but also for creating your model.
Veronica:I think I mentioned to you there in my episode that, as someone that's a DI keynote speaker and has been through so many trainings and taught trainings and even saw some DI programs as well in tech, I finally I just thought it was great, very simple, but also, at the same time, just a great easy way for anyone to identify their own unconscious bias and go beyond the things that we hear over and over. So thank you for creating that and also for opening up this forum. I think it's great and hopefully for those out there listening to us, they can identify where our stories are reached out to us and we can help them come and bring the authentic self, whatever it is at work and the nonprofit, being entrepreneurs or whatever it is. So speak up, like Lauren said, because that's something that I feel like. For me, it's not always going well, but I try to speak up whatever I can and just lead the way for others out there. So thank you for creating this great space.
Justin:Thank you, Veronica. Thank you all for your endorsements. I swear that, like every time I record something, I'm like. I swear this isn't just self-flattery, like inducing like people to say nice things about me and my work, but I really appreciate it. So thank you all for your participation and stay tuned. Season two yeah, we'll see what happens. Thank you all.
